He's the head of school of boarding students. And he's previously served as the vice president of student development at Lynn University, where he's also spent time as a counselor, coordinator of academic assessment, and director of student development. In this conversation, Dr. Hayes shares about his transition from higher ed to K-12 education. He expresses the need to embrace a new transition and trends that he currently sees facing Christian education. We hope you enjoy this conversation.
SPEAKER_02Welcome to today's podcast. And today I'm talking with a new friend. And if you've been uh listening recently, you know that we were talking with Dr. David Tilley, and he shared that we needed we needed to get a conversation with Dr. Mike Hayes. And so uh Dr. Hayes has just graciously agreed to join us. So thank you for being here, uh Mike.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, Brian. It's a pleasure, and I appreciate the opportunity and always appreciate the referral from Dr. David Tilley.
SPEAKER_02Good. Well, uh Mike Hayes has just assumed. I I think you're in like day one or something like that at your new chat. So you've just assumed the head role at Morlington Christian School in Columbus. Uh is is this week one?
SPEAKER_01Yes, this is literally uh week one. We're actually fortunate that there are books in the bookcases behind me.
SPEAKER_02So making quick progress. Yeah, good. Well, I'd love to open it up. And uh, you know, some people know you, some people may not know you. Tell us your story uh in in sort of the broad strokes and how you ended up where you are today uh in the new week, this new job this week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, sure. I think it's important for everyone to know that I'm an original Ohioan. So I grew up in a small community in west central Ohio. So this is kind of full circle for me in a lot of ways. But um, back when I graduated from high school, I went to Lee College at that time, down in Cleveland, Tennessee, and did my degree there. That's actually where I met uh David Tilley. And then after uh we graduated, we meaning my wife and me, we moved to Toledo, Ohio to work in a church there and start a counseling ministry. And then we went back to Cleveland. And for four years, I worked in the local mental health center, was promoted to the manager of that area of uh of the state. And then uh ultimately in 1995, moved to Lee College at the time in their counseling office, and then moved through the administrative ranks to finally wind up being the vice president for student development for the past 12 years. So we just wrapped up 27 years at Lee University in Cleveland. And again, this is uh the first week here at Worthington Christian School.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that's amazing. And and tell us so one of the things I want to talk about is transitions. Uh, and a number of people have gone through transitions. Um, well, it's not it's not a new phenomenon, we know that, but uh, it just seems like people have gone through a lot of transitions over the last couple of years. And I'm fascinated, we were just chatting before we started. Um, I I I went through a transition out of Christian higher ed into what my education friends say the dark side of consulting, uh, which is where I find myself now. Uh, but I'm fascinated by your transition, and I've seen it a handful of times, but I don't see it a lot. So, what does this transition feel like right now, going from Christian higher ed to K-12?
SPEAKER_01Right at this point, it's interesting because we're smack dab in the middle of the summer. So I'm able to actually do some acclimation work that I might not be able to do if I were to assume this role at another time of year. I'm very grateful for uh the timing of this. So I think right now um it's still drinking from a fire hose, but not as rapidly as it otherwise could be. Uh, however, it is intriguing to uh shift to a much younger student, uh, the taller and smaller students, as people like to talk about. Uh so a lot of people have asked me why in the world would I make the shift? And uh ultimately it really came down to this idea that um I've always felt a sense of calling in terms of helping to change trajectories of students' lives. And we really feel called, just at the center of our beings, to help students know they matter. So it's been intriguing over the past year as we've worked through this process to think through okay, for 27 years, we've helped students know they matter in the higher education area, but now in the K-12 area. So for me, it's kind of an adjustment thinking through uh different developmental uh lenses, but we're very excited about the transition and again, very grateful for the timing of it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Was K-12 something that had been in your mind as maybe I'll do that someday, or was this kind of a new, wow, I hadn't thought about that, and now here I am.
SPEAKER_01I have thought about it down through the years. In fact, Dave Tilley, again, he's talked with me for years about doing that shift. Uh, also, my wife is an elementary school assistant principal, and she and I get to share stories. Uh, she talks about five to 12 year olds, and I talk to 18 to 22 year olds or talk about them with her. So uh we've always shared that in terms of a passion together. I think it's important to know that uh again, this isn't a new thought, but it's definitely a thought that we've had to engage in much greater detail and much greater depth over the past year as we've entertained this possibility.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, what was over the past year? And I know that decisions like this aren't exactly made in one night or overnight, but was there the something? And again, I'm I'm sharing this with people that might be thinking about a significant transition. What was it, or was there a moment where you thought, I I think I know this is what I'm supposed to do? And and I think this is still going to be in my conviction of calling, but I think it's a new space. Was there something that clicked for you that made that transition just bright as day?
SPEAKER_01I would say that it was a series of things that clicked. Uh, there wasn't a significant 180-degree pivot moment, but I think there were variations in terms of turning to where ultimately we came to the conclusion this is something that we want to do. I think a couple of the critical things were knowing the institutional fit that we would have with Worthy Christian and what they're called to, what we feel called to. Uh, but also in terms of looking at where Christian K-12 is at this point, knowing full well some of the issues that they're facing and some of the issues that we faced in Christian higher education over the past couple of decades. So I think when I saw alignment there, and again um felt a clarification of calling, that it wasn't just for higher education students, but also for K-12 students, those are some of the really critical pieces of determining that this was a transition we wanted to embrace.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And I want to get into some of the things about Christian education and where it's going. But before I do, I do want to ask you what's got you excited about this new role specifically?
SPEAKER_01So Worthington Christian is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year. And uh it is a significant milestone for any Christian K-12 school to reach 50 years. Uh, the church that birthed uh the school uh is now called Grace Polaris, and they have been a beacon of light around Columbus and specifically in the northern part of Columbus for a long time. They again birthed the school about five decades ago. So I'm very excited about celebrating that, looking back at the heritage, but also charting an inspiring vision forward. So that's very exciting at this time. Also, I think uh coming back to the heart of Ohio. Again, I'm an old Ohio guy, and I look forward to coming back to this point. Uh, I also um am very excited about what the school is doing and some of the growth and opportunities that are available around the Columbus area, a lot of industry growth. So significant opportunities there for development.
SPEAKER_02That's good. That's good. So let's let's talk a little bit about Christian education. Uh, what about Christian education? And I'm I would love for you to reflect on this in the K-12 space, uh, the higher ed space. I I and there's probably overlap, but what how do you feel about it right now and and what's exciting about its future?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think that Christian education broadly, all levels, is at this unprecedented phase of opportunity. There are clear uh socio-political, religious pressures that all institutions uh that are K-12 or higher ed Christian institutions are facing right now. I think we have a wonderful opportunity to help engage our culture in thoughtful and mindful ways, uh, ways in which uh we don't apologize for the gospel, but we actually know that we need to engage the culture in a winsome fashion. So I think broadly for all levels of Christian education, again, there are so many brand new opportunities in terms of where the culture is for us to engage it as faithful disciples.
SPEAKER_02It's one of the fascinating things I've seen, and and this is uh I haven't seen any hard data points, but I talked to a lot of heads of schools across the country. And over the past two years, many of them have seen enrollment growth. Uh now, higher ed, particularly Christian higher ed institutions can't say much of the same, but in the K-12 space, we've seen enrollment growth almost across the board. Uh, and I think that's for a variety of reasons. But what it also brings with it is a number of families joining uh a Christian school for maybe a variety of reasons that we haven't seen in the past. So are you are uh is that true at Worthington? Are you starting to understand some of that? And and how do you address that?
SPEAKER_01Very much so. In fact, as we were researching the opportunity to make the transition, we talked with various friends around the country who are involved in Christian K-12 education. Uh, clearly, I had my fingers on the pulse of Christian higher education and observing what you've already um alluded to, and that is shrinking enrollments for most of the peer institutions of a place like Lee University. On the flip side, and again, contrary to that, would be the Christian K-12 explosion, the way that some people have identified it. And I think several reasons do uh do contribute to that. Uh, I read an article a few months ago talking about the triple pandemic. Obviously, we have COVID. Uh, we also have all the uh the civil and racial unrest in the country, and then also what many people are referring to as the mental health pandemic. I think all three of those forces, uh particularly when they're layered upon one another, I think that makes Christian K-12 schools even that much more attractive at this time. And going back to the sense of trajectory change in students' lives, I think a lot of folks like me are interested in that uh because I've been able to see what uh we were receiving in terms of 18-year-olds for 27 years. And part of our decision-making matrix was if we get involved a little earlier in the game, maybe we can make some significant change. So I think what you're seeing is all these forces converging to make Christian K-12 education even that much more inviting, particularly uh within the times in which we live.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, and and and as I've talked to some heads, what it seems to be doing is um, well, and I'd be interested to hear what your thoughts are moving into again, this transition is is fresh for you and and moving into taking the reins out of school. But it's it what has uh been diff one of the difficulties. I know there's been a multitude of them through the pandemic, has been, you know, for for a number of months or or year plus, uh heads felt like all they could do was COVID. It was, you know, every agenda item uh on in any meeting was just COVID response, COVID response. And and what the the frustration was we didn't get to focus on mission. We we wanted to get back to focusing on mission alignment and furthering our mission. And and what I've heard is that there are many heads now this past year are getting back to that. There's more excitement. And what that is doing in light of what you just said, it seems all the more important that heads have to focus on mission and furthering the mission of the institution in its 50th and beyond years, right?
SPEAKER_01Right. Uh the mission is absolutely critical. And I think obviously making sure that the way we uh in a disciplined fashion live that mission out, I think is more critical than ever before. Again, given so many of the social pressures that our schools are operating in. You know, uh I actually like to think about uh some language by Simon Sinek, uh, particularly out of his more recent book, The Infinite Game. And he talks about uh individuals and organizations pursuing their just causes. And when I think about a place like Worthington Christian, I think about, okay, what's what's the just cause? So there are definitely elemental um uh uh pieces of the mission that obviously are expressed in that just cause, but it but it really invites people to think more long term, maybe in uh more broad and intentional ways that uh will make more of an impact in society. So I think uh that language and those ideas may actually be even more beneficial to us as we move forward because we're about living out our just cause, you know, uh what's the sense of justice? What bigger contributions do we want to have? So again, yeah, being missional or being people who are committed to a just cause, I think, is absolutely critical today.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Are there so so to get into that work and further uh the the reach and the and the impact you're having on your students? Um, you know, we could sit here and talk about all the challenges. We could talk about the triple pandemic, and that's not going to be uh much of a surprise to a number of people leaving Christian schools or working in Christian education. What are you seeing, or maybe have you given some thought to some creative new creativity, some innovation, or maybe were there things you were trying at Lee uh to further what Christian education is doing right now?
SPEAKER_01Right. I think there's got to be a recommitment to public service. I think one of the things that institutions have struggled with mightily over the past two plus years has been okay, how do we how do we be the hands of Christ when we're being told to stay away from people, essentially? And I think that that is a golden opportunity right now for a place like Worthington Christian, but I think for institutions across the country. So as Christian institutions, living out those just causes, I think that's uh that's again a wonderful opportunity for us to re-engage our express mission in our communities. I also think it's uh it's a wonderful time for us to clarify our biblical values. Uh clearly a lot of different social ideas uh are creeping in. And uh specifically, let me mention um uh something that I've actually been talking with a couple of board members about the last two days while I've uh jumped the shark, so to say. And that is um, you know, our young people are hearing a great deal about social justice, and we clearly want them to be people who enact justice, uh, going back to even the just cause language. So for me, what we've been doing over the past couple of years at Lee, and one of the things we intend to do here at Worthington Christian is to help students understand what biblical justice is and how that might stand over and against social justice, you know, particularly in the ways that perhaps things are enacted to promote justice in our community. So I think that's a wonderful opportunity. And that does tie back into uh this this just cause opportunity. Uh I also think um uh mental health, specifically with athletes, uh, it's one of the strategic priorities that we've already identified here at the school. So uh athletes on all layers are struggling with uh you know performance struggles, struggling with uh all the layers uh that mental health has been affected over the past two years specifically. It's really interesting moving here to Columbus. You actually have a very strong movement uh with the Ohio State University football team, Coach Ryan Day, and some of the things that he's doing with his athletes. Uh, in fact, many of our listeners might be aware of the story of Harry Miller, one of the offensive linemen for Ohio State who is struggling a great deal with suicide. But because of some of the networks that Ryan Day and others there at Ohio State have developed, uh, Harry Miller uh basically credits the coach and that system with saving his life. So we're here at one of the epicenters of helping athletes deal with mental health. And again, we've already got some wheels in motion in terms of helping our kids here deal with that as well.
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SPEAKER_02And it's it's such an opportunity. I I I want to hang out there for a second because I think it is such, you know, you mentioned it as kind of one of the three legs of the stool right now uh that schools are dealing with. Uh, and I hear that all the time. So what what can schools be thinking of? Because it's it's it's such an important thing to pay attention to. Um, and it's not new. We we we know that. Uh, and for those of us that worked in student development for years, we we it seemed like that was all I was doing some days. So, what can schools do um if they don't live in the shadow of of an Ohio state, right? Um, or I should say the Ohio State, I suppose. Uh what and and they might feel strapped for some of those resources. Are there are there a couple of things that you want to suggest to people?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think um making sure that all staff is equipped with basic mental health first aid. So if people are are are in need of a specific referral, one of the things that I've seen effective over the years is this system called QPR question, persuade, refer. And the people can be trained on that pretty quickly. But that way, people know what to look for. They also know specifically what to do. Uh, and one of the specific things to do is to make sure you don't get in over your head and you make informed referrals. So I think training all staff uh in that area is critical. But it's also uh one thing to talk about making meaningful referrals, it's another thing to have a robust list of referral opportunities. So it makes no sense to talk about QPR without a good referral option. So I think schools need to be doing that. And I I'm always a fan of early intervention. Again, this goes back to those student development days. Uh, definitely don't wait uh for uh the need to build a hospital down at the base of the mountain, build a fence at the top to try to prevent as much as you can.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's good. And and I I'm familiar with keep, we did QPR training as well with our staff at the college, and and I would suggest that it's not cumbersome. Uh, and I think it made a difference uh with our staff and how they felt. At least they felt more equipped to respond should they find themselves in that a particular situation. So I I want to ask you what what do you think Christian education leaders need to keep in mind right now? Like if you had if you had a group of of uh aspiring heads of schools or young Christian uh education leaders in a room. And you wanted them to keep in mind, you know, one or two key things as they're getting ready. Everybody's ramping back up, at least while we're talking. Uh, I don't know when this will go up, but right now people are ramping up to go back to a new school year. What do you think they need to keep in mind?
SPEAKER_01The thing that consistently comes back to my mind at this time is the bubble. So, specifically the bubble uh of Christian education. I think all of us who have worked in Christian education, whatever level, uh, perhaps our institutions have been referred to as the bubble. So at Lee University, it was the Lee bubble. Uh, having been on the job up here for a few days, but going through the whole process over the past year, you hear about the WC or the Worthington Christian bubble. And again, I've I've heard so many places it's just blank university bubble. You just kind of fill in a blank. So for me, I think it's really interesting because you do have a significant number of families wanting to get their children into a safe place. So, how can we actually create a sense of safety to where people feel like their faith won't be ridiculed all the time, and perhaps even kids being bullied because of their faith. So I think we've got to make sure that we create safe environments, but we can't stay secluded in these environments. So again, I think as we start to navigate this point, uh particularly the COVID pandemic, I think it's important for us to talk about how can we make sure that we appropriately uh work outside of that bubble in safe ways, but again, making sure that we're not just engaged in uh education within a fortress mindset. So, how do we keep people safe, but how do we also encourage them to risk and move out? I think another thing that's absolutely critical uh is uh fiscal responsibility. You know, a lot of schools struggle with paying their faculty and staff enough. Uh so, you know, what do you do? Is it a significant development opportunity? Do you raise tuition to where you actually kind of price yourself out of your traditional market? Uh, but how do you pay and take care of your people well enough to where they don't resign and go work at a restaurant where they can make 15, 20 bucks an hour and have less stress, so to say. So I think uh that is that is significant. The human resource is by far the most important resource. And I think that every school around the country is struggling with that. So I think if anybody's thinking about uh switching from Christian IRED to uh K-12, that's uh an even more pressing reality in some ways. I think a third way that people uh have to uh kind of get their heads around Christian education is really getting at the truth and not being um not engaging and apologizing for the truth, but oddly enough, engaging in effect of apologetics. So, how can we say this is what we believe, but this is how we can artfully defend our faith in a way that is like Paul in the Areopagus, uh, in this big arena of ideas. So, how can we help our kids to be brave, uh, to be um founded in very strong, deep theological convictions, particularly uh in a day and age where they might again be ridiculed or even bullied, whether it's in person or on social media. I think again, in in Christian education on all levels, we have an unprecedented opportunity.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, there's there's certainly a lot of opportunity. Uh, and it's it's not work for the faint of heart. Uh, I know that. So here's maybe one more question. And and and you're you're uh in real time, uh first week on the job, you're a new head of school, and there's a lot of new heads. I know some of them. So there's uh people like you uh who have just assumed a new head of school role and uh the clock's ticking, August is coming. What encouragement would you share? You know, somebody who just went through a transition and is ready to start uh a head of school role at a at a new school, or maybe they're going to be ahead for the first time, what's your encouragement to them right now?
SPEAKER_01My first point would be to encourage humility. Because uh, for those of us who might be making a shift from college to K-12, you know, we've got to embrace these opportunities with the utmost humility and say, you know what, there are some things that we do need to learn. So approaching it with uh a posture of learning, but clearly a posture of leadership. So for me, it's about uh coming in with a sense of, hey, I want to serve you and I want to serve with you. So I think humility is absolutely critical. I also go back to uh the language of inspiring a shared vision. I think uh starting this role, I want to hear about this community's dreams and I want to work together to achieve those dreams. So again, it's about inspiring a shared vision, not my vision, but listening to their dreams and articulating a vision that I can embody and I can champion and I can go to work developing some resources to make those things a reality. I also think, too, it's absolutely critical, uh, particularly for uh anyone coming into an organization where the organization may have a different way of viewing reality organizationally. Uh, I'm a fan of uh the work of Bowman and Deal with reframing organizations. I think everybody ought to be aware of their go-to frame or frames and making sure that we are looking through all the other lenses. In fact, we've often talked about using quadfocals to make sure that we're looking through all four lenses uh when we need to. So making sure we're doing the work structurally, uh, engaging the human resource lens, making sure that we're engaging politically and symbolically. And again, I think what I found and what I've taught over the years is most of us have a go-to lens that we're primarily comfortable with. And I think that we've got to make sure that we're looking through more than one or two and we're effectively leading broadly from all different aspects.
SPEAKER_02That's good. I I yeah, and I would just add as well. I mean, be encouraged. It's it's like we were just we've we've talked about so many things uh just in this short span of time. There's uh there's uh a thousand things on your to-do list and probably keeping you up at night. Uh, but be encouraged. It's good work, but it's really hard work. Um, and it's it's necessary work right now. And and uh and a lot of excitement comes with the beginning of a new school year, uh, but it's uh there can be fear and trepidation as well. But be encouraged in your work. Mike, I'm I'm just honored that you spent time with me today. Uh thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Well, Brian, thank you so much, and thanks for this opportunity. And uh I I'm gonna commit to praying for all my peers, all my new colleagues, and uh I would uh I would cherish it if they would do the same.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely. Amen. Well, thank you, sir, and uh blessings on your day and and this coming year.
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