The Healthy Handoff: How Leaders Leave and Arrive Well | Sarah Meggers

Leadership transitions do not have to be messy. In this episode of the Vanderbloemen Leadership Podcast, Sarah Meggars, Executive Search Consultant and former worship ministry leader, shares practical wisdom for both sides of the handoff. We talk about building trust fast, entering a new role with a learning posture, normalizing succession planning, and why humility and self-awareness matter more than ever.

You will learn:

• How to design a "crossfade" handoff instead of a hard cut
• Ways new leaders earn trust without stalling for six months
• Why authenticity in the interview process protects both sides · How to spot and develop future leaders long before you need them
• Simple steps to make succession a normal, healthy conversation

Whether you are handing off, stepping in, or preparing your organization for what is next, this conversation will help you build, run, and keep great teams.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to the Vander Bloom and Leadership Podcast where we help you build, run, and keep great teams. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in. Well, hey everyone, welcome, and we're so glad that you've chosen to spend some time investing into your team today. I am so, so excited because we are joined by someone who has some great insight into today's topic, and that is Sarah Meggers, one of the executive search consultants here at Vanderblumen. And Sarah, you have a lot of experience not only in consulting, but also in recruiting as well. And you've seen a lot of transitions.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

But before that, I just want to hear how did you end up here at Vanderblumen?

SPEAKER_01 0:47

At Vanderblumen overall, yeah. Um so before I was at Vanderblumen, I actually worked in the local church. So I was in worship ministry. Uh, for what that was for me, I was kind of in an executive leadership seat that's awesome. I oversaw the whole worship ministry and um got to cast vision and really direct the church in that way, which was very cool. And um stepped out of that role and directly into Vanderblumen uh into the recruiting space. So yeah, love it. Got to be in the uh depth of the church for about a little over 10 years doing the worship thing, and then uh now I get to see the width of the church, which is really beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

That's so awesome. That's so awesome. I I wanted to ask you and get some of your insights into when it comes to a leadership transition and specifically a healthy handoff. Yes. Um, from the perspective of the senior leader, how do we make sure that handoff is healthy? Is there anything that you've noticed or that's like a million-dollar question.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

I feel like we could spend the whole time just about that. Um, but I feel like healthy transitions, I would say start with understanding that they will happen. Like if you think that you're gonna be in a role forever, um, we know, especially in the church, especially in the faith-based organizations, but specifically we know that the church is gonna exist until Jesus returns. So, like, if you like you know that there is going to be a time where you are not in that role unless Jesus comes back. So you know so I think that understanding that that's gonna happen and then making sure it's not about you, like every making making every system, everything function because of who the church is, who the organization is, not because of who you are. Yep. Um, I would say that's probably the biggest key to making a healthy transition.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Yeah, that sounds great. It just sounds like humility really is what you're talking about from the right. Selflessness, yes, one hand.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

And a spirit of learning too. I feel like um that's just a a common theme across the whole thing. That if you're not if you're not learning even as you're leaving, like that's really um like you should be learning as you're coming in, but also learning who maybe who the successor is that's coming and helping to um to use kind of an editing term, like helping make it a crossfade instead of like a cut. That's really good, yeah. Like that's the best way to do a leadership transition, and it's really hard when you're sitting in the role that is fading out to be okay. Yeah. Um, and that's where the humility comes in, and also like trusting that the Lord is gonna continue his work.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

You know, um, he can do it without you. I know that's hard now, but um like he's doing great things, and you got to be a part of it for a season, and that's really beautiful, and then you get to hand it off, which is also its own beauty.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

That's right. You know, we we did a podcast a few um a little while back, and one of the little clips of it was leaving well matters, and a lot of times people remember more about the way that you left than even the work that you did. Yes, and so it matters so much, especially from the founder seat of when you're handing something that you've given your all to, really, right, and given part of yourself to to hand it off to and trust it to someone else. It takes so much so much humility. Let's maybe shift gears into those who are maybe crossfading into a role. The the maybe next the the younger leaders who are maybe Yes. Is there is there any um qualities or traits of those leaders who have come into a new position and done it really well? Is there anything that you've been able to notice or yeah?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

I would say like I mentioned already, the spirit of learning, that's that has to be at the forefront. If you come into a place thinking you know everything, that's not gonna work. Yeah. Like every we talk about this all the time at Vanderbloom. And when you've seen one church, you've seen one church. One church. Um so if you come into a church thinking the one church you've seen is gonna be exactly like the one you're coming into, and that's that applies to every organization, every company, everything, uh you're setting yourself up for failure. That's really good. So making sure that you're ready to learn and not just learn the systems and processes and softwares and all that, but learn the people. Yep. Uh you have to have a holistic understanding of learning in order for that to be successful. And I think those are the people that do it well. Um, and also don't use that as a crutch because sometimes people will say, Oh, I'm just gonna spend the first six months learning. And really, that's a disguise for I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, that's and like I think it's probably even better to say, I don't know where we're headed, but let's figure that out together. Yeah. Instead of like, I'm gonna sit on my hands and pretend like I know what I'm doing for a minute. Yeah. Um, I've seen both sides of that, and the people who are successful are the people that are honest about where we're sitting. Yeah. You know, even if that means you have to admit you don't know.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

That's really good. I think that's important, even for those who maybe are not the ones in the transition of leadership, but those who are maybe um are hiring or making a transition on their team to notice, even in the process of bringing someone onto the team, yeah. If they say, Oh, I'm just gonna learn for six months, well, maybe you know, we want to hit the ground running and we want to keep serving the mission and make the biggest impact that we can. Yeah. And learning's important, but we also got a job to do that. Yes, exactly. We got work to do. Yeah. Um, let's let's talk about the importance of building trust. Of building trust, it's so difficult. Yes. It's so difficult when we are coming into a new role, a new position, a new organization, and to be able to build trust with the team members that you are joining into.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Um, how can one go about building trust in a team that they maybe have not been a part of for that long?

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah. I I feel like transparency and honesty, like obviously presenting yourself well is a good thing. Um, and I'm not saying don't do that. But uh being transparent about who you are, and I I actually think it starts like in the interview process. Wow. Because so often people will, you know, try and present like the best version of themselves, which you should do, but you shouldn't do that at the expense of hiding who you are. Really good. Because the last thing you want to do is say yes to something that they thought they said yes to, a version of you that now you have to be a charade for the rest of your career. That's right. Um, so like if you're honest from the get-go, from like the very first conversations, and then someone says yes to you, then you've set yourself up for success to be able to be exactly who you are as a leader.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Then the follow-up is as you step into that transition, you have to continue being that person. You know, you have to be the best version of yourself who you presented yourself in your interview, who is completely true to who you are, and then be consistent with that. And that can be hard. Yeah, that can be really hard.

SPEAKER_00 8:01

That's really good. I I think it's maybe uh Dave Ramsey or I've heard William quote it before, but even a donkey can act like a thoroughbred for three interviews. It's just uh everyone, right, regardless of who you are, can probably present yourself pretty well for three interviews. But I think it's so important to be leading from a place of almost authenticity versus this weird kind of inauthentic, um like overcompensating or ki charismatic, I guess, um to try to cover up maybe, or and and if some sort of inadequacy that you may feel is there, but in reality, when we are able to be authentic throughout the process, it can create so much more harmony, yes, and yeah, believability and trust. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

I think that's important kind of an aside, but very much related for organizations to hear about themselves. It's true. Because like as people are interviewing candidates, as you somebody is deciding to give their life to your organization. And I've seen organizations do one of two things. One, they oversell themselves, which is good. Like you want to again, you want to like give the best version of yourself, or they say, I've had really hard interview processes myself, so I'm gonna make this a tough time for them. Yeah, and then at the end of that, somebody's gonna have to say yes to the organization that they just talked to, and they're like, that was hard. I don't know if you want to be a part of this. That's right. So I think on both sides of that, like being who exactly who you are as an organization, when you're even starting those conversations, then sets that person up for success. And hopefully they're meeting you with exactly where we're talking about too. And then you can start from real solid ground.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

That's right. It's really just self-awareness. I think one of the stats that we found in Be the Unicorn was that I think 90% of people or something along those lines think that they're above average in self-awareness, which only 51% of people can't. Something's a little out of whack there. Um but but I think it's important not only for an individual to be self-aware of who they are as a leader and as an employee, but also an organization, which is it's so difficult to do to have an accurate view of oneself. Yes. But when you do have that, I think you're able to not only attract the right talent, but you're also able to go and serve your mission in a way that you wouldn't be able to if you weren't if you didn't have that self-aware. Exactly. I think it's so so important. Um let's let's maybe shift to we we've been talking about the organization. Um a lot of organizations maybe they look off and they say, Oh, you know, we we don't have to worry about that. It's it's X amount of years away. We don't have to worry about planning for the next leader. Um when we talk about leadership transitions, how can one go about um maybe convincing is the wrong word, but getting the the whether it be the team or the executive board to to understand that hey, we need to prepare for the next and that we are temporary workers here, yes, and that it's not just gonna end when this person leaves, but we need to prepare. What's what's some uh some tips that you could maybe give to those who are trying to convey to their teams that hey, we have to prepare for who comes after me.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

Yeah, um honestly making that not a taboo topic, so many people will just be like, I want to have job security, you know, I don't want to feel like I'm leaving. So I don't plan on leaving for a really long time. But that is like one of the first symptoms is like when you don't talk about it, it nothing will happen. Wow, and it's like, yeah, I want to be here for a long time, but I want to make sure that in the event that I'm not here, you know, that we're still okay, and understanding that the good of the whole is is better than the good of yourself. So kind of what we started talking about initially that humility, that selflessness, and understanding that this thing is bigger than you. Yep. Uh that's a huge aspect of that. And then as much as you can handing leadership away.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

That's so good.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Um, being able to spot quickly the even just small amounts of things that you're like, I see this like tiny seed in somebody, water it immediately.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

That's good.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

And then invest in it over time. You know, you're not gonna have perfect leaders in front of you all the time. Sometimes you will, and that's one of the fun parts. But also the development of people is like unbelievably amazing. So uh being able to see those people who oh, just with a little bit of time, a little bit of investment, they can be the people who then share that leadership with you and walk that together. Like we're not meant to do life alone. I don't think we're meant to do leadership alone or ministry alone. And so making sure that you're building up leaders around you so that in the event that you do leave, yes, it's gonna be okay. And then those people are gonna be able to accept somebody new or maybe rise up and be that next person, really. Which would be even better. Really good.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

I think it goes to kind of this leadership development side of an organization. And you know, I've heard it said before that you want to replace yourself when you leave an organization. And I think that's so great. But not only replacing yourself, but you know, we we don't want to be um to to limit ourselves as well. We want to be able to uh think bigger and think that, hey, maybe I could go up to this role, or maybe even as you said, noticing those who are a part of our teams who can we maybe say, Okay, they're in this role right now, but if we take some time to invest into them, they can maybe make the jump to this role and transition and helping them along that transition as well. Yeah. I think that's super important. Um, is there anything that you've noticed in the recent years and the way that it's maybe changed in how not only organizations are maybe approaching leadership transitions, but also from the candidate side of how we are um going about coming into a new role or maybe exiting a role as well? Is there anything that you've seen change in the recent years?

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's a theme of this conversation that self-awareness and emotional intelligence is huge. Yes. I don't think that was true 10 years ago or 20 years ago. I don't know that it wasn't valued, but it wasn't talked about nearly as much as it is right now. And people are starting to figure out how do we put that in our interview process? How do I interview well showing who I am holistically? Yep. Um, as opposed to just how can I rattle off my skill set? That's really good. Or here's this bank of questions that now we can go to Chat GPT and say, what 20 questions are the potential of being asked for this job, and then just prepare for those. Like, how can I holistically be that way? And then show who you are as a person and how you will sit in that role, not just that you can do that role.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

That's really good. I think even in the the age of AI that we are currently living in, it's more important than ever to be able to relate human to human. And like people skills are more valuable than ever.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

And the and we're getting better every day at sniffing out what's AI and what's not. So don't use it as a cheat code, you know. It's helpful, but like make sure that you have your fingerprints on everything that you're doing in a transition. Yep. Again, as you're as you're handing things off, set that person up for success. Don't make chat GPT do it, you know, and vice versa. Set yourself up for success if you're stepping into it. Don't don't give them chat GPT. Yeah. Chat GPT is not doing your job for you, basically.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Yeah, um, as we kind of close today, um, is there any maybe lasting tips? Um, you know, we've c talked about a lot um today from both the candidate and organization perspective of leadership transitions. Is there any um lasting um advice or insights that you maybe give to our listeners today who maybe are in that or yeah, I would say just remembering like transition seasons, those those spaces in between things can be really hard as people and knowing knowing God's history with spaces in between, I think is something that I remember a lot.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

And God works I maybe even best in those spaces. Yeah, so He works pretty great and everything, but um just knowing that you're that you're gonna meet God in that. I don't know that we expect that always. And we we expect that we're gonna meet God when we arrive at whatever that is. Yep. Um, or maybe we've met with God and we're scared because what's gonna happen next. And knowing that God God holds that in between really well um is something that I would say, please remember that above everything else and know that that He's got you.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Yeah, that's really great. Well, hey, I hope that today's conversation was able to maybe give you some advice, whether you're a candidate who's maybe coming into a role, or maybe someone who's handing off a role to the next generation, or whether you're an organization preparing for the future. We hope that today's topic will help you navigate leadership transitions. Thanks again for joining us on the Vanderblumen Leadership Podcast. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you're looking for more leadership resources, you can find us at Vanderblumen.com and on socials at Vanderblumen. We'll see you again next week where we continue discussing how to build, run, and keep great teams.