Lone Star Trail
Texas themed hunting and fishing interviews featuring experts and real tales from the field.
Lone Star Trail
Springtime Snakes and Trappers Ed
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Flowers are blooming, bees are buzzing but that’s not all. Rattlesnakes are on the move and Nathan Hawkins discusses dos and don’ts when it comes to snakes. The Texas Trappers and Fur Hunters Association is set for their spring rendezvous. Some of the best minds in the trapping world will be there…hear from one of them before the event.
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Welcome to Lone Star Trail, a new outdoor show aimed at bringing you hunting and fishing updates and compelling stories from around Texas and right here at home. Get ready to join us down the trail. Now, here's your host, Nathan Smith.
SPEAKER_02Hello, friends, and welcome to the Lone Star Trail. I am Nathan Smith, and I'll be your host today as we learn more about the things and people in this great state we get to call home. Spring is here, and I hope everyone had a great Easter holiday. Easter is yet another reminder of God's mercy and grace through his resurrected son Jesus, and for that we are indeed thankful. Warmer temperatures means snakes on the move. And Nathan Hawkins with Big Country Snake Removal is here today to do a little myth busting and give us an update on what he's seen across the region. The Texas Trappers and Fur Hunters Association is set to host their annual spring rendezvous, April 24th and 25th, in Childress. And Philip Woods is here to talk about why advocacy and involvement in that organization is critical. And we'll give Dayton the week off this week, but we'll be sure to catch up with him again next week for another edition of House Rules. Thanks for listening. And if you haven't subscribed to our podcast, you can find it anytime on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you find podcasts. Stay tuned and we'll pay some bills and be right back. Whether you're looking to buy your next hunting property or have acreage to sell, you need Brian Clark and Ranch Pro Real Estate in your corner. They use the latest in technology to make listings easy for sellers to maximize value. In the market to buy that perfect ranch or hunting getaway, call Ranch Pro Real Estate at 325-642-3630. That's Ranch Pro Real Estate at RanchProReal Estate.com. The land is their life.
SPEAKER_04Wear a lapjack is definitely the driver for the boat and for a safe ride at home. Follow these tips, there's gonna be a lot more day three to play in this great state of Texas. Nobody's waterproof. Yeah, that's a helmet truth, and no laugh.
SPEAKER_03Sponsored by Texas Carton Wildlife.
SPEAKER_05Yes, sir. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02You know, first of all, it's always great to talk to another Nathan. Uh there's not many of us out there, so you know, it's when when I talk to another Nathan, I know automatically this is a good guy. So um let's just jump right into it, man. How long have you been uh interacting with snakes?
SPEAKER_05Since I was a little kid. I started the business about 11, 12 years ago. But I've been playing with snakes since I was a little kid.
SPEAKER_02I'm sure your parents loved that.
SPEAKER_05They did not, uh, but they they embraced it after a while.
SPEAKER_02Okay. All right, okay. Well, one of the one of the things, uh one of the most important reasons why I wanted to have you on uh for this show at this time of year is because uh man, snakes are so active right now, and we're seeing uh just a lot of activity out there as the weather gets warm. We've had a little bit of moisture in the in the recent days and weeks. And so uh, of course, that's just gonna continue uh as the as the weather does does get warmer and moves towards summer. So uh it's really common right now for folks, whether you live in an urban environment or a rural environment right now, just to have uh an awareness first first of all. And then one reason that I wanted to talk with you is you guys do a lot of videos on social media and you post a lot of videos and a lot of education with uh those those videos. So you know, I grew up in a family where um we never missed an opportunity to kill rattlesnake in the country, whether that was in a cotton field or on a cany road or uh close by the house. And um while I certainly don't want them near my house, um they're they're a part of an important ecosystem, and so you kind of want to balance uh a discussion around some of that. But let's just kind of jump in. First of all, what are you seeing on your calls? What are you are you I know you're you're getting into a busy time of year. What are you guys seeing and dealing with right now?
SPEAKER_05They're kind of everywhere. A lot of it's it's due to you know, it's breeding season right now. They also haven't eaten in a while, so they're out hungry, uh looking for mates, and the weather's really favorable right now. The surface temperatures aren't getting too terribly hot yet. So, yeah, it's just a good time for a snake to be crawling around.
SPEAKER_02What about copperheads or or other species besides rattlesnakes that are um common to our area? What what are you seeing in terms of activity there?
SPEAKER_05I usually don't do much copperhead work until the cicada egress, which is usually in June. That's when there's a feeding frenzy that goes on with copperheads, and that's usually when I do all my copperhead work, and it's usually at night when the cicadas start to come out from underneath the oak trees and start to move out and climb the trees. That's when I get most of my copperhead calls. However, uh copperheads are active just like rattlesnakes are, but they generally are a little bit later as far as their movement patterns go, just a little bit later. So you can start to expect to see them, you know, in the latter part of this month, early May, is when they really start to come out.
SPEAKER_02I want to talk about uh a couple more things related to copperheads. So about 10 years ago, I encountered it seemed like about dark, every evening we were walking, or I was walking with a dog uh past a certain oak tree, and for a period of about three or four weeks, nearly every evening, I would see a copperhead and or two copperheads. And so I thought, man, I've got a den somewhere, but it was that cluster feeding or whatever that was going on, uh the so those cicadas that would get in that tree. I didn't know about that. What what's the you know the copperheads behave a little differently than rattlesnakes? Would you kind of give us some idea of some some different types of behavior between the two?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they're they're quite a bit different, actually. Copperheads are a lot more nocturnal than than rattlesnakes or the western diamondbacks are. Western diamondbacks kind of shift their their activity levels. Right now they're crepuscular, meaning mornings, evenings. Uh they will move on to being nocturnal. Uh, but that's when when copperheads really thrive is is at night. That's when they do their best. So uh, you know, and when it comes to the cicada egress, that's usually going to be in June. So activity then, you know, the surface temperature is incredibly hot then. Another thing about copperheads is they're not they're not communal or semi-communal like like diamondback rattlesnakes are. So as opposed to having, you know, uh my largest western diamondback removal was 127 snakes under one house. And you know, with a copperhead, they don't dent up like that. They're they're just not that communal of a species. And generally speaking, when you have sandy soils and the deciduous oak trees and things like that, there's a lot more opportunity for them to slip underneath the ground. Whereas, you know, a little hole in the ground that can house two or three copperheads isn't gonna house 127 rattlesnakes. It's just not going to. So, yeah, they behave a little bit differently, but at the end of the day, they're still just a snake.
SPEAKER_02I want to go back and talk about uh you said you were a little kid when you first started messing with snakes. Um Is there a a time or a story that you can share that uh where you kind of got hooked on on uh on snakes?
SPEAKER_05There's a lot of them, but uh the I guess the one that kind of changed everything is during the summer I would go and I would stay with my grandmother who lived outside of Cottonwood, which is kind of by cross planes, I'm sure you're where that is. Anyway, she had a lot of copperheads out there, and I think I was five years old, and any copperhead that you know anybody saw out there, you know, it would be dispatched and you know they were they were bad. But I never I never really understood it. And then when I was five, I was back there and I found a one that I thought was really, really pretty, and I put it in a bucket and I kept it underneath the oak tree for a couple days. And when my summer vacation was up and I had to go back home, I snuck it into my mom's underneath my bed, and she ended up finding it, and that wasn't a wasn't a real good thing. She made me go release it, and uh, which at least, you know, at least she let me release that it wasn't in the right habitat or anything, but anyway. So yeah, that's kind of what started it, and then you know they let me have non-venomous snakes. They didn't like it, but you know, my my dad ended up building acrylic enclosures for me and things like that, and it just kind of grew and grew from there. But yeah, the the five-year-old copperhead deal was probably kind of the the peak of everything back then. I just thought they were so pretty, and then finding my first rattlesnakes, you know, it's I just have always been fascinated with them.
SPEAKER_02Has anybody told you that you're you're wired differently than most people?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02All your life?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Hey, that's okay, that's great. It takes all kinds. Uh the idea of of uh of of willingly going out and seeking snakes, um, I'm always intrigued to talk with those people because it doesn't it's not my thing. But uh speaking of of that, so those of us who've been around rattlesnakes or a number of rattlesnakes, uh whether that's encountering them in a in a shed or in a field, a pasture, under rocks, under homes, whatever. I remember a few years ago I was cleaning out a a shed uh that was on my grandmother's property, and there was I don't know, there was I think we pulled out five rattlesnakes out of that out of that building, and I think my adrenaline kind of reached a place where it it it was either gone or it I just I got used to that that noise when they started rattling and by the third one I I felt myself be a lot calmer working with them. You've had years of this. Do you still get that spike of of uh adrenaline whenever you encounter the first one on a on a call?
SPEAKER_05No, I've I've never really really had it.
SPEAKER_02Never had it?
SPEAKER_05Um never not really, no. Like if you're walking along somewhere and yeah, you hear a rattle, you know, it makes you pay attention, but I I've never been an adrenaline thing. Now I've been underneath houses and you know I've had them crawl over my arms and over my back and stuff like that. And yeah, that's that's not a good situation. So that's a little bit different, but just the general behavior and understanding, you know, what the snakes are capable of, that's never it's never really done anything. I mean, when you work with enough of them, you realize what they are and what most people think they know about snakes or rattlesnakes specifically are it's it's either been exaggerated or it's completely false. They're they're not nearly the animal that most people think they are. They're actually very shy animals, they want to be left alone, they're very secretive. And it's if you look at the statistics that come from venom toxicologists in the United States, you know, they're saying that, you know, 80 to 90 percent of the people bitten every year in the United States by venomous snakes were doing something they shouldn't have been doing. Right. Um in the sense that they're harassing the snake, they're playing with the snake, they're trying to kill the snake, they're doing something where they the human made the mistake, if if that makes sense. The the snake is just trying to defend itself and save its own life. And yes, there are you know the the 10 to 20 percent, there are accidents, of course, but where somebody just doesn't see a snake and steps on it. But generally speaking, it's it's it's all due to a human making a mistake rather than you know the snake being aggressive or anything like that.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. Well, you you talked about some of those those myths or or common misunderstandings. What are some others that that you've you've encountered, whether it's talking with people or customers when you come up to a place, that uh what are some of those common misunderstandings?
SPEAKER_05There's a there's a quite a quite a few around here, and I'm sure y'all y'all get it in Brown County too. But a baby snake is not more venomous than an adult, not at all. Yeah, that's it, it really amounts to volume. The venom composition is the exact same whether the snake's 10 inches long or if it's four feet long, the venom composition is the same, it's just that the adult has so much more venom that it can give to you. So uh baby rattlesnakes can control their venom. Uh, another one is the wild hog theory that snakes aren't rattling because of wild hogs, that's completely false. Um camouflage is their number one defense, so they're not gonna give themselves away. And you have to think of it like this. So if you're walking along and a snake starts rattling at you, okay, that's great. You saw that snake because it rattled at you. You know how many snakes you've walked past that didn't rattle at you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05A lot, a lot, and it's not to do, it has nothing to do with hogs at all whatsoever. I I hunt snakes all over the southwest, you know, in areas where there are zero feral hogs. I'm talking about like deep in the Sonoran desert, you know, down in areas where Yuma County, Arizona, places like that, there's never been a feral pig there ever. And very, very rarely will those rattlesnakes rattle at me. So no, it's it's that's another one. Um that's those are probably the two most common around here that I hear.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I've heard the I've heard those a lot.
SPEAKER_05And there's a lot of there's a lot of myths about, or I say myths, they're not myths, they're it's misinformation about snake bites. You know, what what to do, what not to do if you get bit. Um if you do get bit, you don't need to try to suck the venom out, you don't need to cut it, you don't need to put a tourniquet on it, you don't need to take venodrill. The only thing you need to do is like if it bites you on the hand, take off, take off any restrictive jewelry and get to the hospital. It's it's you know, keep your if you if you're able to, keep keep the bite at heart level or above and get to a hospital. That's it. You don't need to do any of that other stuff. Don't put ice on it, none of that stuff. Just get to the hospital. And you don't need to bring the snake, you don't need to, you know, you don't need to try to kill the snake and bring it in because at that point you're probably endangering other people that don't need to be endangered. And we have two FDA-approved anti-venoms, and they're polyvalent, poly meaning many, and it doesn't matter what you get bit by. If you get bit in Florida by an eastern diamondback, or in Texas by a western diamondback, or in California by a southern Pacific rattlesnake, they're going to use one of two of those anti-venoms, and it doesn't matter what snake bit you.
SPEAKER_02Good information, you know, and um talking about snake bites, um, I think we've all if we those of us who have lived in rural areas and if you've had dogs, um uh yes, I've heard of some dogs dying from a rattlesnake bite, but most of the time uh they'll swell up, they'll get sick, and uh and then in a period of weeks they're uh they're over it.
SPEAKER_05Most of the fatalities that I've seen or heard of have been to like the lower extremities. So most of the time a dog's gonna get bit on the face or the head, just and that's probably out of curiosity. But all the others, you know, the the ones that get real bad are the lower extremities where the bites are below the heart. So that's the problem when it comes to that.
SPEAKER_02You mentioned uh was it 127 snakes under one one house? Yes, sir. You gotta you gotta share uh uh about that call a little bit if you don't mind. What led them to call you and then uh what was going through your mind as you started finding snakes?
SPEAKER_05So this was a new family. They had just bought this this house at outside of Seymour on this ranch. And this house was a giant house. I mean, it probably had to be 3,500 square feet, something. It was a really big house, a really pretty house up on this hill. And I know that there's a lot of snakes in the Seymour area. Anywhere up there, there's a lot of snakes. Well, they had just recently moved in, and the house, I guess, had been abandoned for a little bit as they were trying to sell it, so the grass wasn't cut and didn't look very nice. So the guy was going around the perimeter of his house weed eating, and he looked in one of the vent holes and he saw a rattlesnake. So he went inside and got his gun, and when he got back, the snake was gone. So he carried on and went around to the other side of the house, and there was he said he saw two curled up in that. So he's like, Well, what's going on here? So, and mind you, these people were from San Antonio, so this is kind of a whole new world. And so the scuttle hole is inside of a closet in their house, and he went and he poked his head under there, and he immediately called me after that, and his voice was shaky, like he was you could just tell on the phone that he was terrified, and he said, There are snakes everywhere underneath my house. And that's you know, that's I kind of take that with a grain of salt. It's you know, what when somebody says everywhere, what are they seeing? Eight or nine snakes? You know, right, right. Again, going back, there's a lot of exaggeration when it comes to snakes, but I was like, okay, no problem. We'll get up there and get them out. So I crawled underneath there, and I looked back at the girl that was helping me, and I said, He he wasn't lying. There are a lot of snakes under here, and just on that one wall, there had to be probably 40 or 50 along that wall. And when I got completely underneath the house, I was probably I don't know, eight to ten feet away from where these snakes started. And I looked back to my right, and then the whole back wall was just a giant pile of snakes. And so yeah, it was it was pretty pretty fun. Pretty fun. But yeah, that's our record so far. We have another one that was 88, which it was actually would have been 91, but it ended up being 88 rattlesnakes that we removed on that particular day. That's uh that one gets the silver medal.
SPEAKER_02When you're taking them out, are you putting them in like aluminum uh trash cans or what's your I saw it, I saw a uh PVC contraption on one of your videos, but um what are you are you putting them in boxes? What are you taking them out and putting them in?
SPEAKER_05Oh the best thing that we put them in is the just the black and yellow tubs you get from Lowe's. You know, those work really good. They have good latches on them. Uh the and we'll put them in five-gallon buckets that have screw on tops, but we also I have those PVC deals because some houses there's one way in and one way out, and a lot of times they're gonna be on the opposite end of the house. So dragging one snake from one end of the house to the other, it's it's it gets pretty tiresome. So I came up with that contraption, and that's so we can fit, you know, I have several different types of it, but you know, in that big long one, you know, I fit up to 13 rattlesnakes in there. So it's a lot heavier, but you can get more out at one time, and you don't have to crawl as much.
SPEAKER_02So from the time you started uh the business 11 or 12 years ago to today, what uh what kind of volume have you seen increase in terms of of calls and uh not not necessarily because there's more snakes, just because of uh awareness of your business, maybe. What how has your business grown, in other words?
SPEAKER_05Well, it when I first started it, I had no intention of it doing what it did by any means. I just, you know, I when you get on social media, especially this time of year, and being a you know, a guy who likes snakes, and you see a lot of decapitated snakes, and you know, you think to yourself, well, it's because there's a den underneath their house. That's why. So my idea back then was just to kind of have like a little side gig and Go and you know, catch a few snakes, get them relocated somewhere where there's no human conflict or livestock conflict and save some snakes and help some people out. That's kind of what started it. And come to find out there's not really a whole lot of people that are willing to do what we do. So it kind of went from a big country thing to a statewide thing, and now it's gone to kind of an educational thing where now I travel all over the western United States uh training different energy companies and doing you know, showing them how to safely handle snakes and remove snakes from job sites, things like that. So it's just, I don't know, it's kind of one of it's a niche type business, and I kind of got got lucky with where I'm at and the number of snakes, and that's about it.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's great. Um, I'm all about finding uh niche businesses and entrepreneurial um endeavors, and so that's uh that's great. Yeah, that's a that's an awesome, awesome service you provide, and and uh you're helping you're helping a lot of folks out uh what you do. So Nathan, uh what else should people know as they as they consider uh you know the time of year being out in gardens and pastures and just walking around? What what's the if you could give somebody maybe two pieces of advice as they're encountering snakes or possibly encountering snakes, what would you say to them?
SPEAKER_05I mean, the biggest thing is is if if you see a snake, just generally speaking, if you take one big step away, you're safe. Snakes can't strike the distance that most people think they can. So take one big step away. If you know, identify the snake. If it's something you feel that needs to go away, I mean, by all means, I have to respect your right to protect whatever you feel necessary. So do it. But the thing is, is I mean, snakes aren't here to hurt you, they don't want to invade it. The reason that you have a snake on your property is because you're providing something for them to help in their survival. So whether that's shelter, food, shade, water, you know, all the necessary necessary things for a snake to survive. If you're providing that, then it's not when it's not if it's when, you know, you're gonna have a snake. So if you can eliminate all those things, and what I tell everybody is around your house or around, you know, make sure that if there is a snake there, you're able to see it. And then, you know, it's it's a lot safer for you at that point. If you have low-lying bushes, things like that, and a snake can hide, then you can walk by a snake a dozen times and never know it's there. So that's that's the number one thing. Uh just try to clean up and keep your grass mode and don't have a bunch of rodents, and you'll be in a lot better shape. And if you do have an issue with snakes, you can call me.
SPEAKER_02What's the best way to reach out? Is it the number on your website? Is it uh Facebook? What's what's your preferred method if uh if folks want to get in touch with you?
SPEAKER_05Uh Facebook if you can, just because my phone is blowing up all day long this time of year. So uh Facebook if you can, and then if not, uh you can you can find my number.
SPEAKER_02Nathan Hawkins, Big Country Snake Removal LLC, based out of the Abilene area. Uh Nathan, thanks so much for your time on the Lone Star Trail this morning, and uh we'll check in again with you later on in the year.
SPEAKER_05All right, sounds good. Thank you, sir.
SPEAKER_02Stay tuned, Mike here. Lone Star Trail will return after these messages. Whether you're looking to buy your next hunting property or have acreage to sell, you need Brian Clark and Ranch Pro Real Estate in your corner. They use the latest in technology to make listings easy for sellers to maximize value. In the market to buy that perfect ranch or hunting getaway. Call Ranch Pro Real Estate at 325-642-3630. That's Ranch Pro Real Estate at ranchprorealestate.com. The land is their life. Welcome back to the Lone Star Trail. We're here again this morning. We'll talk in trap line uh with Philip Woods with uh the association. Philip, thanks for being here this morning.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so very much for having me.
SPEAKER_02Uh, Philip, you've been part of this association now for how many years?
SPEAKER_01Gosh, it's probably going on for eight years. Bumped into it accidentally, didn't even know one existed.
SPEAKER_02Well, that kind of kicks us off. Um, if you're not familiar with the Texas Fur uh Trapping Association, and a lot of our listeners are not. Um, tell us how you got involved, how you discovered it, um, and a little bit about that organization.
SPEAKER_01Well, I'm gonna give a little personal story at the same time. I've been trapping since I was a kid, and I've trapped all over uh, you know, uh Facebook. One day I just was Googling trapping associations and I put Texas Trapper, and all of a sudden, Texas Trapper and Fur Hunters Association popped up and I went, what the heck? We have one, and I mean, I was very much an adult when I found it. So um, it was a great asset and a great venue and a great group of people that I didn't even know existed here in the state with a wealth of knowledge.
SPEAKER_02And that's why so many people get involved with uh organization is uh there's a camaraderie aspect, but also the the knowledge piece.
SPEAKER_01I've I've been involved with a lot of organizations, and when I walked into this organization, I had no idea what to expect. But when I got home and I got I got back to the house, I told my wife, I said, you know, this is a great group of people, and it's so rare that we have the opportunity to walk into any organization and come home and go, God, they were all great people, moral characters, great values, and people that you want to hang out with. So, yeah, plus they knew so much, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, when I've talked a lot on the show already about my uh lack of knowledge. I'm always trying to gain more knowledge when it comes to trapping. And as a livestock producer, I'm always looking for more, you know, more tools for predator control and abatement. And so obviously, trapping is a big part of that. So uh let's talk a little bit about why it may be important for uh for someone to be a part of the association. What are some, you know, if you could narrow it down to a couple things.
SPEAKER_01You you you you couldn't have led into it any better. You first think uh at Childers, you know, at Childers, uh the next next rendezvous, which is coming up, you know, on Friday the 24th starts at one o'clock. Saturday, April 25th, um, you know, starts at nine o'clock. So Friday and Saturday, April 24th and 25th. But inside of that, starting at 2 o'clock on Friday afternoon, online trapping with Earl Blankley and Keith Jackson. Now, I was a water trapper. I mostly did beavers, otters, and coons, and I wanted to be a predator trapper. So I found the guy, I went to see him, and it was three to five hundred dollars a day. I still go back once every other year for sharpening up, but they have something from two to five called online trapping. You load up and you go on an actual trap line the next morning from 7:30 to 9. You get to go check your traps. These guys are quality trappers. I don't mean a little, I mean these guys are good. One of them, um, we do another class for another organization, and he's an online instructor, and he kicks my butt every year. I mean, these guys are good, and you get that that's just one of the things that probably most of the people that go to the convention don't even take advantage of. But if you're a new trapper, all of that stuff that you've seen online that you can't make, don't know how to make it all work, you got both these guys hands-on for two days.
SPEAKER_02Well, and so much of success, I mean, you just gotta get your hands dirty and and do it. And you know, you you can only learn so much from watching other people do it. You've got to really uh you gotta do it yourself. Make the mistakes and hopefully not too many or too big of mistakes, but you gotta make some and and uh and kind of figure it out. But man, what a great resource. I didn't even know about that. And I played on going. My my 10-year-old trap uh checks our traps with me and helps me set traps, and so he and I are gonna go for the weekend. So we're definitely gonna take advantage of that.
SPEAKER_01Take advantage of that, and two great guys, very knowledgeable guys. Uh so uh why belong to the association? Well, first off, and and and this is probably not new to your podcast, uh, but you know, uh anti-trapping movement, uh, anti-hunting, the uh, you know, I I don't want to be ugly and call them whatever, but you know, the people that are out that are out there against, you know, most outdoor sports are are really coming against everything that we do. And um it's no longer time to be a loner out there by yourself. You need to support an organization that is a quality organization that and that can stand up for our rights and help support with the right groups. I think that's one of the main things, um, along with so many other things.
SPEAKER_02So much of what um you guys do, especially those of you who have businesses related to trapping and and specifically predator control, you're on a you're on a job right now in South Texas trying to uh save an Axis herd. And right, you know, uh in terms of economic impact, I mean, uh whether you're whether you're raising exotics or whitetails or uh livestock um cattle, I mean, one one calf loss is unacceptable. It's always been hard to take, but especially now. Um we put so much time, energy, effort, heart, blood, sweat, and tears into raising these animals and to see them um preyed upon in a very violent and um you know some people want to throw stones at at trapping and you know, foothold traps, for instance. I just saw a video last the other week about uh a guy, he's he was trying to dispel some myths and put his own hand in his own trap, set it off, and to prove that uh, you know, there's no claws, there's no uh puncture wounds. I mean, the at least snares are very humane, or uh foothold traps especially are very humane and um they've come a long way in in that arena, but it's such a it's such a vital part of controlling uh a population of predators that is is rapidly getting out of control you're 100% correct on on both uh both of those statements.
SPEAKER_01Um uh financial impact is absolutely devastating. We we also raise cattle. Uh I know I looked the other day and the cow prices are you know, the calf prices have bumped $8.40 a pound. An average load of calves going to the market right now are between $1,800 and $2,200 a calf at five months old. That's that's a big deal. Uh this Axis herd, uh starting in November, there was a $60,000 investment in this Axis herd, and they're down to three access now. Where we're working on stopping this predatation. Um you know, it's it's a huge financial um loss when predatation t uh takes effect. And um for the frontline guys, if we didn't have the foothold traps, and they've come so far and and they've and they've we've developed them, and there's so much testing that they have to go through to get on the market and to get uh you know the stamp of approval. But just for instance, uh two years back on a job, they were leaving losing three to seven calves a night. It was in a birthing pen about two thousand acres. It was quite a large ranch, and I was called in and the rancher was I said, Can you please tie your dogs? And they said, No, I'm not tying my Jack Russell. He goes everywhere I go. And I said, he said, you better not catch him. And I'm thinking, this is not gonna end well. Well, the very first thing, the very first thing, the very first day, the Jack Russell Russell jumps out of the uh out of the side by side, runs over and gets caught in a trap. The wife goes over there and just steps on the two levers, he takes his foot out and never stops running. There was zero damage, and I can't tell you how many animals I release a year that has zero foot damage. Yeah. Uh so it's it's it's a different age. The age of I mean, anything can happen, but the age of of of of what what was what went on a hundred years ago compared to what goes on now is totally different.
SPEAKER_02So true. And uh, you know, that's uh I'm sure gonna be discussed a little bit, at least in sidebar conversations again at the at the rendezvous. What what are some of the other uh things on the schedule? You you talked about already one I didn't know of. Uh what what are some other things on the schedule that are planned for the you said the 24th and 25th of April.
SPEAKER_01That's a 24th and 25th, starting at one o'clock. Um uh Shannon out of Oklahoma has uh is doing a beaver. Uh I know uh that's where I came from is is is water trapping. Now I still do a lot of it in Southeast Texas. We still have a lot of beaver work going on. Uh then Tom Fisher, uh two to three, is having trapping equipment. That's a pretty big deal. You you don't think about it, but I spend more time, as much time working on my equipment and making sure I have the best equipment as I do trapping. It's it's a pretty big deal. Uh you have another guy that's coming in, Bill Robinson from Colorado, showing cage trapping, which is really big in Colorado and Arizona right now. I mean, what that's all they can do unless it's on private land. Uh then we have skunk trapping. Um, and let's see, the next morning we have everything back on the line with the guys, more beaver trapping. Uh, we have uh crafts for the kids. Uh we have a ladies' craft. Uh we also have um um oh let me see. I'm I'm going over over the list of everything that we have right now, from bobcat snaring um to Wayne Derrick with lures and why, and back into the last last part of it with the canine trapping again. So you're gonna have a well-rounded from cage trapping to foothold trapping from water all the way through uh your predatation.
SPEAKER_02I need to definitely make sure I go to the bobcat snaring session. I've got a picture on a game cam of a bobcat walking literally through my snare.
SPEAKER_01Well, if it makes you feel any better, I've been doing this professionally now for quite a few years, and I still get those pictures.
SPEAKER_02That does make me feel better. Yeah, it does.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh at least he's still there, you know. He's he's out there somewhere. I'll get him eventually.
SPEAKER_01And uh, and you know, and it even makes you it makes you feel even worse when you had the bobcat you've been trying to catch all week come and step within one inch of the go button.
SPEAKER_02Oh man.
SPEAKER_01Dang!
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01I just needed an inch, you know. But that's that's that's trapping.
SPEAKER_02That's it. A hundred percent, yes. You know, we we talked you talked about some things for for kids at this uh at this convention. Uh over the years, um well, it's with everything. I mean, it's with it's with a lot of activities, a lot of organizations. Uh a lot of organizations look to who's gonna fill the shoes coming in, who's gonna who's gonna take the leadership roles uh the future. And that's everything from uh you look at it across farming and ranching, you know, the average age of the farmer in Texas is 58 and not getting any younger. And um you start thinking about that. You guys with the the organization you're part of have have thought about those things, you'll keep kind of a tab on that. What do you see when you have those conversations with people about whether that be attendance at rendezvous or just or just knowledge you have, is uh is there an increase uh interest among young people in trapping and uh or is it is it decreasing?
SPEAKER_01Great question. What we're seeing, matter of fact, Mike Bodinchuk, uh who's president of our organization, wrote a great article this month in in our in our magazine, and it was talking about the popularities uh surging for the trapping industry right now. I I have been a I have said for years that that uh life below zero, the mountain men, uh port protection, all of all of the programs, you know, sort of the survival programs, have done nothing but promote trapping uh in a positive light. And uh what we're seeing, I see it um I happen to be on uh uh some uh uh social media platforms, and my followers are I'm getting phone calls. I I'm not not exaggerating, once a month of somebody going, How do I do what you do? I'm 22, I'm 28, I'm 30, I want to do what you do. And uh so I'm I'm just you know, I'm taken back. I'm I'm so excited that it's happening. The other day, um uh I say the other day, uh a couple of months back, I was on a beaver job locally, and all of a sudden, one of the young men that I know he goes, I want to go trapping with you. And he brings his friend, and well, we we catch beaver, they catch beaver, and all of a sudden I'm at a ball game the other night and he comes up and he goes, I'm gonna start up a trapping company. And okay, so innocently said, but I'm going, I've got a I've got a 12 or 13-year-old young man here going and he's already got it set up. His dad is already building hog cages where he can catch hogs on the neighboring ranches. He got he got bit by the bug.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I think that's that happens to all has happened to all of us at some point in time in our life.
SPEAKER_02Sure.
SPEAKER_01So we're I'm seeing an insurgent of it. I mean, it's it seems to be growing.
SPEAKER_02That's uh, you know, that's encouraging because uh it there is there's a lot of science to trapping. I mean, and I'm talking um about what little I know and have experienced personally, but uh, you know, it's also a an art form too. And man, the the technique has got to be there, and there's so many variables. And uh so it's definitely something that it's a learned skill that has to be passed on. And you know, and it's just another great way to get kids outside. I'm a big you know, and we talk a lot on the show about getting kids outside and and just the the all this all the studies that that uh show just the immeasurable benefits from from spending time outside for all kinds of things. I mean, just confidence building and just uh you know, independent thinking, critical thinking, just problem solving. I mean, just uh there's so many things, and kids just unfortunately get uh so little uh time outside. And uh screens have a lot to do with that. You know, the way the education is today has something to do with that. But what a great, what a great way to get kids outside. And and kudos to you for taking those boys uh with you when you could have said no.
SPEAKER_01Let me tell you what, it's any it you know, any opportunity we have, and I think the older I get, and I have grandkids and and my grandson loves to go with me, he'd rather go fishing. But uh uh, you know, just anytime I see a young person, uh, you know, it's like, okay, I know there's another twenty five or thirty traps in the other part of the barn that needs a home. You know, here take four, take five, let me show. But yeah, absolutely. And I I can say for every person I know on the board of the Texas Trappers Association that all feel the same way.
SPEAKER_02So I mean Wayne uh Wayne Reed, Wayne and Colleen Reed, uh is uh December the 14th had the 2026 youth uh trapping camp uh in north Texas and you know I mean they had over 40 participants the Game Burgeons Associated Association showed up um uh with them to help I mean we had I couldn't make that one but there was all kinds of guys from the board and from our organization that was there along with them and I mean they went all the way from catching to fleshing a hide all the way I mean all the way through and every kid left with a trapper's bucket full of traps coon cuffs traps all the stuff that he could use to get started man that's great what a great start while we've been talking this is going back to what we were just talking about while we were talking I got a notification before my trail cams clicked on it it is a bobcat walking about seven feet away from uh trap I've got set for four bobcats so we'll see if it it kind of circles back around or if he just walks on by let me say this let me say this right now uh bobcats are this is the tough time to catch them they're not mating they're not fighting for territory they're eating and laying up and man what a what a crop we've had of rabbits and rats and I mean all kinds of rodents and birds and I mean it still you go out and there's so many rabbits so uh in that and every year I see a large a large uh population of rabbits and I've noticed it for the last four years I keep I keep pretty good notes every every time I see a large population of rabbits we have a large population of uh bobcats right yeah no no small wonder on that connection there at all you know um we we're talking about uh getting kids outside getting them involved in in trapping and and all the lessons learned uh with with trapping I mean we could sit here and talk for hours probably about all the all the the lessons in humanity that we've learned or or are learning through through trapping but I want to kind of talk a little bit about something that's been trending on some social media and even has made it into some of the mainstream news lately and that is the the fur market in general. You know for so many years the fur prices and the price of fur has been uh very depressed and and very low. Um I don't know enough to know the right question to ask but I I'm hoping that you uh might have some insight on what's going on right now with the fur market in general specifically with uh I'm thinking you know about desirable fur uh market like uh bobcats or you know those kinds of furs.
SPEAKER_01What is there has there been a change or am I am I just dreaming that out well let me let me say this I me being an ADC trapper and animal damage control you know uh I I do I don't I trap year round and so I'm usually not in the game you know uh very little during actual season right first I have heard uh bobcats have made this year and uh seem to have seem to have ended the year well seem to have ended the year real well I I mean I saw some phenomenal prices at some of the auctions uh some of some of the and those are the those are the top cats bringing upwards of 2800 plus dollars okay I've seen I've seen an average now these are not cats from southeast Texas no these these these these are the the western cats right um and um and I you know I I saw was it the New Mexico I I may lie at this and I I'm but I mean it was it came out to like a 400 average yeah for the host show uh so and I've seen some other averages that came out even higher than that but so the cap prices have held looks like they're gonna hold for next year but at the same time I don't know anything about the future uh what I do know is that uh there has been some activity very small activity moving in the uh coyote market uh I mean I heard of some bringing $18 to $20 a hide I know that's way down coons four to six but what I'm seeing is it's not a full-length fur coat like my mother wore sure in the 70s but the but the fur vest are starting to become really popular starting to see some of those the shawl I don't know if they call them a shawl a scarf whatever a wrap are sort of coming back but any movement on that front if fashion takes uh an any notice of it and gives it any recognition I think it will I think it will go.
SPEAKER_02Sure. I I bet you know you know Mitchell Simpson up in the up in the panhandle. No I don't know that dirty rotten dog okay well I've had Mitchell on the show very good friend of mine oh very great so Mitchell uh I need to get him back on the show uh soon and I hope to see him in shoulders and and meet him in person but uh oh you he'll be there okay great great well I'm I'll have to I'll have to quarter him last week okay good him and Wayne are in Alpine right now okay well Mitch Mitchell told me that in the 70s you know they were trapping uh and finding a lot of bobcats and and uh the the hides were worth well he said he said uh they had they had collected enough hides to buy a new Chevrolet pickup in like 76 or something. Yep and of course you know the price of a new pickup in 76 versus today a little different.
SPEAKER_01But point being is that the hide you know hides were in that time you know just extremely valuable and of course he then went on this story about early the early days of their career as as bobcat trappers were were pretty primitive and uh catching them in uh cotton stripper trailer uh or old cotton stripper baskets or or trailers going in with a burlap sack and a stick and that kind of stuff but uh anyway the that just blew my mind that that those furs and those hives would be worth that and so it's well let me give you a for instance I grew up in the 70s I was in I graduated high school in 78 so if that tells you anything but in the 70s I 70s and and 80s I grew up in Baytown Texas and that was the home of Exxon and most everybody we knew their their parents worked at Exxon that was just sort of the refinery everybody worked at I could go out and take two weeks and catch coons and catch a hundred coons in two weeks and I was selling them for thirty dollars a hide and five dollars for the meat I could make thirty five hundred dollars in two weeks and that was the guys that Exxon were making yeah I mean so it was it was a really big deal yeah that's wild so yeah uh but but I I think you're gonna see a resurgence of of uh of fur uh if the I think Russia and you in the Ukraine if that ever settles down because you know a lot of the codies went over there for garment for for the for the for the scarf not the for the um but the hoods for most of the winter jackets and for the collars uh on the winter jackets that's what they were used for right and I think if that ever happens and that market opens back up I think it it will it will do good again but it's all trending that way.
SPEAKER_02Positive signs for sure uh Philip before we go I want I want to give uh give you a chance to uh tell us uh your handle on TikTok you're the a TikTok trapper I am a TikTok trapper but the name of my company is Texas former ranch wildlife solutions it's outlaw at p Woods MSM1. Okay that's your handle on TikTok TikTok trapper uh you post great videos that are uh um you know you're the you're the public relations uh officer for the for the association but you also lead by example with what you post it's not uh uh you know as as trappers we we we have a job to do but there's also a uh a job to to treat all animals humanely and that means including this dispatching them humanely in a humane way and in respect to the animal itself and so I appreciate the stuff that you post and uh and your content it's it's uh done in a real tasteful way and humane way and so it's a good example for everybody else to follow so thanks for doing that uh everybody go check that out on tick tock if you're not on tick tock uh look uh look him up on uh your website uh for more information about uh Philip Woods and and your services and your knowledge appreciate you sharing uh your time with us today on the Lone Star Trail and we look forward to seeing you in Childress on uh the 24th and 25th of April thank you can't wait to meet you it's been a pleasure to be here with you well that's all the time we have for this week's episode thanks for stopping by me and old Hank the guardog will catch you next week at the same time same place if you can't join us on a local station find the show on Apple Podcasts Spotify or wherever you find podcasts. Also you can connect with us on Facebook and share your hunting and outdoor photos and stories with us at Lone StarTrailradio at gmail.com. Until next time for all of us here at the show so long
