Hunting Freedoms and Texas Parks and Wildlife

Jeremy Harrison raises relevant questions and concerns about TPWD's leadership and regulatory strategy. Questions and concerns abound regarding motive and end-goals regarding hunting regulations and the future oversight of the organization. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Welcome to Lone Star Trail, a new outdoor show aimed at bringing you hunting and fishing updates and compelling stories from around Texas and right here at home. Get ready to join us down the trail. Now, here's your host, Nathan Smith.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Hello, friends, and welcome to the Lone Star Trail. Thanks for joining us today. As Texans, we're known for our independence and our love for freedom. Today the conversation is centered around hunting freedoms and possible threats to that way of life. The source of those possible threats may come as a surprise to you. I know I was surprised when I learned about them. After a quick break, we'll hear from Jeremy Harrison, who's raising valid concerns and questions about one state agency familiar to us all. Pour some more coffee, and I'll see you after these messages. Whether you're looking to buy your next hunting property or have acreage to sell, you need Brian Clark and Ranch Pro Real Estate in your corner. They use the latest in technology to make listings easy for sellers to maximize value. In the market to buy that perfect ranch or hunting getaway, call Ranch Pro Real Estate at 325-642-3630. That's Ranch Pro Real Estate at RanchPorRealEstate.com. The land is there live. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for tuning in again on the Lone Star Trail. We've got a special guest uh today. I'm really excited. I've I've wanted to talk with Jeremy for a long time about a lot of different things, and we'll hopefully have him back on at a later time and talk about uh some predator hunting topics and some things that he and I have been talking about off air before we got going here this morning. But we're honored and privileged to have Jeremy Harrison with us this morning. Uh Jeremy is a founding, one of the founding fathers of the West Texas Big Bobcat contest. He's uh an avid outdoorsman, uh conservationist, uh livestock uh protection advocate, and uh an excellent predator hunter as well. And so uh Jeremy, thanks for being with us today.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Thank you. You're giving me too much credit there. I'm just regular old guy.

SPEAKER_02 2:14

Well, it's like we were talking about earlier. I mean, a lot of that takes skill, and uh you've you've been able to hone some of that skill for for a long time. We had a great conversation before we got going about uh getting our kids involved in the outdoors and and making sure that that legacy uh of that skill is on. And uh again, really want to talk with you more about that later on. But today, um, you know, on this program, we're not shy about uh speaking truth, and and we want to make sure that we are speaking truth when it whatever we do. But I want to be shy about things that may be a little controversial or just um on the edge of some things. And and really what we're gonna talk about today is not on the edge, it's not it shouldn't be controversial, it's just facts. And something that we're talking about may um and probably will come as a shock and a surprise to a lot of our listeners and folks who who either on the radio station locally or on the podcast, it's probably gonna come as a surprise, and it'll be maybe an opportunity for some kind of action, but really we're we're in the business of getting information out on this show. And uh, Jeremy, that's what you're meant as well, and and getting the truth out. So I kind of just want to tee it up for you to just kind of start. Give us some background on this, I'm gonna call it viral Facebook social media post that you did last week. Um, this thing has really taken off. You get several thousand shares and and views on um a pretty long article that you put together uh really aimed at uh the Parks Wolf Life administration in Texas. And the headline of that post was the wolves are not at the gates, they're in the TPWD administration. So I really want to talk about that. I want to get into the weeds. I'm gonna ask you some devil's advocate kind of questions, and and um we're gonna talk about this in the framework that it's what's what's best for uh not just the hunting industry as an economic driver, but what is best for uh Texas and what's in the best interest of those who hunt, fish, and do enjoy the outdoors. And um and in that framework, that's what we're talking about. So let's just what what caused this post? What tell me tell me the background on this?

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Oh, freedom. I mean, that's that's the bottom line. I'm I I don't I don't like being uh snowed over by people. I don't like uh um that's not the way government's supposed to work, right? Um it's for the people by the people. I mean, that's that's right the way it's set up. And and uh the further I dug into this, the the more it made me mad because I I don't have any control. You don't have any control. No voters in the state of Texas have any control ultimately. Uh um and before I say this, and I know that there's you know, when I say something of negative or whatever about Texas Partich and Wildlife, I'm not talking about everybody that works up there. I say the vast majority that work for Texas Parti and Wildlife are great people, good people, and and and that includes our game boards, you know. Exactly. Um they're some of my best friends. And here's the thing is they that's where I get a lot of the information that I've gotten is from current and past employees that are fed up. And you know, of course, the current employees go like, well, you can't say anything, and they can't because they're it this goes all the way up the ladder. And will they get fired? I don't know. And I guarantee you there'll be there'll be some repercussions for them. Um nobody appreciates being pointed out. Uh and and so I'm not that guy. They don't have anything on me. I don't care what they think. If they could shut anything I'm doing down, they would. And uh and have been trying for years, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Uh and so let's go back to the to the very beginning. So uh from your post, you you you mentioned that this is a long story. It started in 2018. Um in this post, you know, you you admit you you talk about the founding of the the West Texas Big Bobcat contest, which you know, I told you we we've helped donate to the the pot over the years. Uh and we will again in the future, but um which started in 20 or 2008. So, you know, we're pushing nearly 20 years of this this contest, and this is the this is the largest self-funded predator control program that not only in existed in in Texas, but across the U.S. And uh and that's really what it's about. It's about controlling uh predators that impact livestock production. Nobody's got to talk about cattle prices. Everybody knows they're crazy high and what that means for ranchers. Go back to um how there were there were some attempts made by some some animal rights activist groups, first of all, to uh to shut you down and to shut the contest down. Uh talk about those efforts first, and then we'll kind of move into the the parks and wildlife issue.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Sure. So 2018 we started getting uh correspondence by via email from um it was she actually through the email said Pam Nelson, Pamela Nelson. And I'll I don't know who this is, but it it's not uncommon. We get uh hate mail, death threats, all kinds of stuff you wouldn't believe.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

But anyway, um you get death threats. We gotta stop there for a second. So you get death threats.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, you know, keyboard warriors, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, and uh it's uh you get all kinds, and and hell, I get them from them from Europe even. I mean, it's just a joke. But people that have no no skin in the game, they they don't even live in this country. Uh and and then some that do, but um, it's just uh we live in a day and age where uh this whole social media thing, it's a it's a uh very big avenue for cowards. So I just kind of leave it, just leave it at that, right? But she was emailing us, you know, about the contest, shutting it down. Uh, do you really think what you're doing is is right, and this and that, and you know, I and I save all those emails, I've got a string of them, and I'm like, ah, you know, I and really I just ignored them because I'm like, oh whatever. You know, it's just another another person that you know doesn't agree with what we're doing, and so they want to get their two cents in, right? Well, fast forward then to uh 2020. This is the very beginning of COVID, right? March 2020. Uh so at this point, um, we've had our February contest and our March contest is coming up. And so uh in between those two times, we get this um Governor Abbott comes out with this mandate with um no public gatherings and this and that. And and uh we had this contest at the 4-H Center here in San Angelo, which um caused me not really some problems, but I I did not want to get our county agent in trouble. He was gracious enough to uh give us permission to do it there, and he didn't want to jerk the rug out from underneath his self. I said, All right, I called the county judge and I said, Hey, this is how we're gonna do it. And the county judge was very, very uh um um affable to what we were doing. He said, Yeah, no, no problem. You know, so we're gonna make it like a drive-through, the least amount of contact, blah, blah, blah. And he understood the same thing I understood. A governor's mandate is no different than a strong suggestion. It holds no weight in a court of law, cannot be arrested for violating a mandate. That's why we live in a free country. So uh one man cannot make a decision that that uh um will stop you from enjoying your freedom, uh, regardless. Uh so we we end up uh, you know, I get it approved through the county judge and this and that. And because Pam, she had emailed us, are you really gonna have this contest with the the governor's mandate, blah, blah, blah. You're gonna be violating laws. Whatever. So I just left it at that, right? Um, I I I fixed it on our part so that we did not get the uh county judge or the county uh agent in trouble. Um so next thing I know, I get a call from our local game warden, uh head of the local game wardens here. Nice guy. Uh and anyway, he calls me, he's like, hey, Jeremy, uh before I start this, I need you to understand that I don't have anything against the contest. You or anybody that's running it. I hunt and he he does hunt. Um he's an avid hunter and fisherman, like most text personal people are. And he said, hey, uh, I don't have anything against it, but I have to ask this question. Here's the reason why. He tells me the background. This is and that's when I found out what her name was. It's it is Pam Nelson, but it's Pam Pamela Nelson Hart, H-A-R-T-E. And I'm like, oh yeah, well, we've been getting emails from Pamela Nelson, which is the same person. Uh and I I didn't put all that together because she never used her chooser maiden name, right? So he said her her husband is uh Will Hart, who is on the board of the Texas Partial Wildlife Foundation. And they have some pool with Texas Partial Wildlife because of that, and and obviously a bunch of other reasons that I'll get into here shortly. But they uh um he said I she has called Carter Smith, who was the director of Texas Partial Wildlife. And uh he's called me and asked me to check into this. He goes, Carter didn't have anything against what you're doing. I don't have anything against what you're doing, but I I have to check into this because it's my job. I said, Yes, we're gonna have the contest. I told him what we did with the county judge uh to protect the the integrity of what we were doing and to to um comply as best we could, the best we were going to. He said, Okay, no problem. So he said, Well, I'll I'll inform her and uh and uh no problem. I said, Okay, no problem at all. So that was the end of it, right? So he called, uh, I'm assuming he called her or emailed her, I don't know. Uh, but next thing you know, uh Pamela Hart sent me an email. I mean, within 15, 20 minutes, says, Hey, uh, uh, I understand you're gonna you're gonna continue to have this contest, uh, this predator, what did she call it, uh, wildlife killing contest, because that sounds really bad. Uh, and says, hey, uh, I will be there with other law enforcement to make it to ensure everything goes smoothly. So it made me mad. So I screenshotted her email and I sent it to the um the game warden and said, Hey, uh do I turn this into you or should I turn this into the Department of Justice or Sheriff's Department? Like, who handles things like this? And he sends me back to me and says, Well, what are you talking about? I said, Well, she's impersonating an officer of the law. She's gonna be there with other law enforcement to make sure things are like she's she insinuating that she's a law enforcement officer. And so he immediately calls me and is like, hey, hey, hey, hold on. Man, please don't rock the boat, blah, blah, blah. Uh, look, um, I'll be there to keep the peace. I'll be there to intercept him. And I said, Well, I seriously, at this point, I was like, I don't think she'll show up. I mean you know, we get this kind of stuff all the time, and I thought, yeah, she'll never show up, whatever, whatever. So I just left it at that. Well, we have the contest, and sure enough, she shows up. Uh and then she waits towards the end there, and and then uh the the game warden intercepted her, and she comes up there and wants to meet us, and then it was a very pleasant conversation with her just because she's not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change hers. And I I really don't have time for every Lenny tune that doesn't agree with what I'm doing. So I was like, yeah, whatever. So that was that was done. It's gone. So unbeknownst to me, uh before that, she had financed a film called Wildlife Killing Contest, and got this little fella from uh New Jersey, I believe, some city. He claims to be real uh real avid outdoorsman. It's a joke, but anyway, uh so he produced a film. He infiltrated a team that was uh um uh hunting in the contest under the guise of National Geographic, because he has done some films uh he was on a film crew for National Geographic. So um, and they produced this film uh between the time that that happened in 2020 and and uh I don't know, 2022. I don't remember when it came out, but it didn't get much traction. It's a it's just a hit piece. And and part of the film, they have somebody running down a coyote on a snowmobile, and it's supposed to be about the West Texas Big Bobcat contest. And I'm like, they were running down coyotes on a snowmobile in Texas, right? So come on. Um I'm like, I I don't know, I know a lot of people, I don't know anybody that that has the guts to sell snowmobiles in Texas, but hey, maybe somebody does. Um in Galveston, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:08

It's they sell in Galvans.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Yeah, that that special order, that special order out there, I would think. But uh anyway, so it was just a hit piece, and people saw it for what it was, or just uh another one of those deals. So uh and and that's when I started really looking into it like, wow, she financed this deal. Like, so who is this? So start digging further into it, and I'm like, wow, okay, wow, man, I'm dealing with a whole different bear here. Um, it's uh um and she continued on. I mean, she financed films with uh um Ben Masters, who's a sheep and wolves, uh uh uh wolf in sheep's clothing. He's he sh hell she calls him her adopted son. And so uh you know, the river in the wall, which didn't have anything really to do to wildlife, and then these other these other films he did, and there's always this deal at the end. It's always has something to do with there's an underlying call to action or underlying hey, right, you know, in one of those films, there's a a mountain lion they say had gotten in a trap and was missing some toes, and it's all the story and this and that, and you know, when it's basically call to action, we need mountain lion regulations. Well, Pam is involved with Project Coyote, who their big claim to fame is, you know, they've uh shut down Coyote uh or predator hunting contests in New Mexico, which is not a fact. Um, they got in with the liberal governor there and uh um I believe it was a mandate, and they they shut down uh predator hunting contests on state-owned land in New Mexico, right? Which is a drop in the bucket compared to all the BLM land that's in New Mexico. So the narrative is you can't have a uh a predator hunting contest in New Mexico, but the vast majority of that is public land, but the vast, vast majority of it is federally owned uh public land uh in the form of BLM and not state land. So they shut down predator hunting contests on state land in New Mexico, but that wasn't the narrative, Nathan. That's not the narrative. The narrative being pushed is that they shut down predator hunting contests in the entire state, and it was a big win, and everybody needs to give us some more money, and it makes them even more powerful, right? Um, so that's the way this works. It's it's all about money, it's all about donations. And what kind of propaganda can we push down the public's throat so they think that we're getting some traction and they'll they'll give us more money so that we can push our agenda. Um the agenda, the agenda is anti-honey, period. And I have videos of her doing interviews with um other things, really don't have anything to do, and she's kind of given her her uh resume there. She's a an animal rights activist, and she says that, right? So she'll tell people she's not, but she's telling other people she is. So it that that kind of you know, but here here and there. But anyway, she uh so she's also on uh one of the founders of this uh Texans for Mountain Lions, right? And it's the same thing as Project Cody.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

Jeremy, I want to I want to pause and for right there because I want to kind of put a disclaimer here in that um uh part of our discussion is not to convince people to either endorse or oppose uh predator hunting contests because everybody's got their own opinions about those, whether you love them or you hate them. The the issue is really not about the predator hunting contest itself, it's about the infringement of uh hunting rights, really.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Freedom. And about freedom. Yeah, yeah. And that's that's exactly right. And I'll agree.

SPEAKER_02 18:52

One thing that you guys uh do a great job of is you talk about the uh and of course, you know, the the West Texas contest, uh the big cat contest is is like the granddaddy of all the contests, and I've already kind of said that. And you guys have done a great job of of growing it, but you haven't, it's grown organically. I mean, it's just one of those things that has really just grown on its own, but you guys still do a great job at every contest turn-in I've ever been at, you guys talk about the um the purpose behind it. It's not mindless just killing for killing's sake. It's not, it's not mindless. Um, you know, you guys enforce law and rule, and we were just talking off-air about a situation that came up in March, and the the line is drawn there. Everybody's gonna comply with uh state and federal game laws, and uh, you know, safety is always emphasized. There's always that emphasis put on uh at every turn in I've ever been at in in person. And so this is not a question or a discussion about our calling contest or predator hunting contests, are these right or wrong? Are they morally ethical or or whatever? It it it really doesn't matter which side of that coin you come down on. It's it's about the methods by which uh animal rights activists take to shut things down that they don't agree with.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Oh yeah. It's about freedom, and this is a playbook they use. And right, and and I'm of the mind frame that I'm I appreciate people that even people that don't agree with what we're doing, I don't whatever, you know. But sure, uh you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm a staunch believer in freedom. I I may not agree with what you say, but damn it, I'll die for your right to say it. Because if if they say that you can't say what you want to say, even though I don't agree with it, that's a slippery road, brother. Real real slippery road. Oh, I don't yeah, I don't advocate for anybody squashing anybody's freedom. They have the freedom of of choice, they want to be involved in it or they don't. And this contest is just what it's all the reason that I bring it up, is because that's what put them on my radar. That's the reason I dive into them because I'm like, who are these people? Right, what's their end goal? Why are why are they coming after this? Where what makes them tick, right? That's that's to understand your enemy, you need to understand what makes them tick. And uh, they made themselves my enemy by by pushing pushing it and uh just pushing their their opinions on everybody else and and going behind closed doors, and we'll get into that and advocating against you.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

You were talking about the mountain deal, and I I just wanted to kind of tee that up a little bit that they were successful in getting that that regulation passed that you now have to check your mountain lion, so-called mountain lion traps every 36 hours. And people people people will look at that and say, Well, so what? I mean, that's not a big deal. It's a it's a it's one of those give an inch, take a mile situations.

SPEAKER_01 21:57

Exactly. And they they also uh Um, so she she was this this Texan for Mountain Lions herself, Ben Masters, uh, Patricia Harveston, which is important later on down the road because her husband is Lewis Harveston, who runs Borderlands Research Institute, who is the winner of a lot of these grants that Texas Partial Wildlife gives out for these studies, right? The they we need we need more, we need numbers, we need studies, we need research. And oh yeah, well, they they apply for the grant and boom. So when you you have your wife advocating for more research, and then you get the grant, that seems like BS to me, but you know, whatever. Uh so yeah, the all these people that that have they signed this, you know, there's been masters that says he's not, you know, animal rights activist, but well, he's he's on that that takes him for mountain lines. I was like, man, that's that's pretty telling. Uh and he's in with these people like that. That's who finances all of his shenanigans and these films and this and that. And I and I've watched the film because I need to understand, and I don't think that they were produced bad, fine, but there's always an underlying narrative. And honestly, it's you know, it's it's one of those deals where they just slip it in there. And if you're not watching for it, you may not even catch it. But if they're always pushing a narrative, always trying to sway public opinion, right? And uh that's what it's about, right? Uh public opinion. So uh yeah, so she she's on the board. She goes up. We actually went and spoke. I went and spoke to the commissioners and uh bought a bunch of guys from West Texas that are were against it. And uh they they also got uh another one passed. It was uh, and this is another one of those deals, it's low-hanging fruit. Uh it was um canned hunting. Go canned hunting for ground lines is that odd, right? Nobody was doing that, but it sounds horrible, and I don't care who you are, you're probably against that. I think 99.9% of the people are against that, like canned hunting of anything. I don't know the canned hunt squirrels, right? So nobody, nobody was doing it. So it was like the the equivalent of making jaywalking on the moon illegal, but but it they hung that in their hat, as you know, hey, is a this is a win. Look at this. So guess what? Hey, there hasn't been mountain hunting regulations in the state of Texas in this this many years, and whoopity doo, look what we did. Uh donate to our cause. So there you go. It's again, they and that's where I think that personal wildlife went wrong, even though the can hunting is I don't agree with that, but nobody was doing it. Uh the mountain lion check rule is or the trap stick rule is not even enforceable. It's a no, you know, and and yes, uh, if anybody that the traps is gonna check their traps, that's that's the whole point, right? So but forcing people to do something is different than going after anybody that you think is violating something. But uh mountain lion is not a game animal in the state of Texas, and that was their but that's they gave them a couple of wins, but what they were asking for was just unbelievable. Like, hey, we need the seasons, regulations, uh stop hunting mountain lions until we figure out how many there are, and how you gonna count them? So it's just uh, you know, we need more research. That's what we need.

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Okay, well, I mean I'm I'm gonna stop you right there because and I I want to keep going with our whole line, a linear story here. But while we're talking about mountain lines, and I said give an and take a mile situation now, even as we speak, the end of March this year, uh this uh Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission work session occurred, and they came up with these proposed changes for the law to change uh voluntary mountain lion harvesting to mandatory mountain lion harvesting. So, and under the auspices of we need more research, we need more research, we need more research. So now if you harvest a mountain lion anywhere in the state of Texas, uh you don't have to report it. And a lot of people don't report it because I mean I know personally of guys who've reported uh mountain lion uh kills after significant livestock predation events occurred. They've killed a mountain lion that's been killing their goats or cows or whatever. Uh I know one guy killed a mountain lion and uh called a game warden. Well, they confiscated it for research purposes. And it wasn't the game wardens themselves that was doing it. It was the it was up the chain that was telling them this mountain lion for whatever XYZ reason. So you have those anecdotal events that occur and those stories that you hear about. Well, it sure doesn't make me want to call anybody whenever I harvest the mountain lion, or I'm or I'm being paid to protect somebody's livestock in West Texas and there's a mountain lion in there and I've got him. But now, if this if this proposed rule changes, now by law, we will have to report uh any kind of mountain lines. They go further in this in this proposal though. They say we don't know how many mountain lines there are. We have no idea, we have no way to know. They say they say that in the rule. And then, not six paragraphs down, they say we estimate that less than 250 mountain lines are taken on an annual basis. But we don't know.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

So that's the problem. This has been going on. This plan, this is the that's what I want your listeners to understand. This is a bigger plan than just harvest reporting.

SPEAKER_02 27:30

Absolutely. We're on the way to listing as threatened, as as regulatory, outlined. I mean, we're on the way there already.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Yes, and here's the thing: they they had this system set up that's voluntary, okay. I've got a friend that lives, let's just he's south of Marfa, all right, in Presidio County. So he was he's an unbeliever, and he's been in their camp, okay. Uh and he he understands how they tick, and he said, Jeremy, this is what's happening. And uh I was kind of skeptical. And uh he said, This is what they're gonna do. They're they created this voluntary uh harvest reporting deal, right? And or or not, it wasn't harvest, it was a voluntary sighting deal. So if you had a picture of a mountain line, right, that's the way it should be. Uh that and I I agree with this voluntary uh sighting report because it would that would help with numbers, right? You you don't if you want to know how many uh white tails there are in the state of Texas, uh, do you do a mandatory harvest report? Like if the if the whitetail hunters killed 300,000 white tail or they killed 3,000 white tail, it doesn't tell you how many are out there, right? Exactly. Those two numbers don't those don't correlate. Like uh that's that's how many they killed, how many were there? If I called you tomorrow and said, hey, I stomped 20 ants in my yard, do you know how many ants I have in my yard?

unknown 28:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

No, all right, and that's that's just that's not that's that's not realistic. Um what they're doing too, um I'll tell you in a second, but this is this has been going on a long time. So this harvest reporting thing from the guy south of uh south of Marfa there, he personally reported four mountain lines and he screenshotted it and he recorded that he reported them. And then they came out with this report and they said there was one mountain lion reported in Presidio County. He personally reported four. Yep, there you go. So he's like, Jeremy, this system was designed who it's not a matter of who votes, it's who counts the votes, right? So now the narrative is well, nobody was complying with the voluntary program, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, well, that that was part of it. So now the other narrative is nobody's reporting uh is uh is complying with the voluntary uh siding reporting deal. So we we needed we need mandatory, and a mandatory harvest report is designed for one thing. So they they want genetics, uh and and I get that, but they they want to prove that there's no correlation between what they're called South Texas mountain lines and West Texas mountain lines genetically. That that is the it's asinine, but whatever. Um they the and the whole point of that is they want to regulate South Texas mountain lines because they they know they can't prove that the West Texas population is not thriving, right? So that's the that's that's one thing coming down the line, and that's the whole point of this mandatory harvest program is we know you killed one, we need genetic samples off of it, yeah, right, so that we can say, hey, genetically, the South Texas mountain lions are different than the West Texas mountain lines. They don't the the West Texas mountain lions are are real uppity and they don't they don't they don't talk to the South Texas mountain lions, they don't interingle. I'm like, come on, man. And they can't tell you where South Texas begins and West Texas ends. Like, is it Valverde County where it drops off? Well, I don't know. Okay, like it's just it's set up, it's set up to push a narrative, right? And then the and the narrative is gonna be pushed um regardless, and it's gonna be regulations, regulations, regulations. And uh yeah, that's that that's the whole point. And if you report a harvest program, that's gonna go one of two ways. This is am I against a harvest reporting program? Not really, uh at face value, but when you understand what's gonna happen and how these people work, this is a playbook they've used in every western state, right? So you've got a harvest program, and one of two things is gonna happen. Nobody's gonna report, and the narrative will be C, there's no mountain lines, yeah. Nobody's killing any. Or two, a lot of people are gonna report and they're gonna say, huh, see, they're killing them all. You know, that's the narrative, right? Right. So it's a lose-lose situation for us. Yeah, it's a lose-lose situation. If you care about honey and the future of it, this is how it works. This is what they do, they have bought their way in, and this is what they're doing. Um, and they're doing a research project right now on the numbers in the South Texas, and the the woman running it is Dana something. She's not even from Texas, and she's pretty as animal rights active as you can get. I mean, anti-hunting anyway. Uh, and that's not the kind of people you want running programs like that. It needs to be unbiased. And and when I say something bad about like, you know, BRI, Borderlands Research Institute, I'm not talking about the whole everybody that works there is not a jerk. The people on the ground are doing a great job, you know, doing research and doing this and that. And one of the things they came up with was one of their research projects, they they caught and uh caught and colored like eight or nine mountain lines, and they didn't use anybody from Texas to do that. Why do you think that is? Anyway, uh so they colored these eight or nine mountain lines and they identified hundreds some odd kill sites, right? And I I believe in all that. I that I think that happened. And then they turn around and say that not one kill site was a livestock animal, and I believe that too. That that all of that is true, but here's here's where the narrative twists. This is where the pseudoscience comes in, right? I said, Well, they didn't kill one livestock animal, and that's that's what they preach. Well, the truth of the matter is it was done on a nature conservancy. There is no livestock, right? Right, right. But to say that no livestock animals were killed is just as good as trying to demonize all these landowners and protecting their livestock, and so they don't even eat livestock, you see? Like a nothing could be further from the truth, but though there's not that they're flat out lying, they're just not telling you the whole truth. It's an omission. The whole truth puts a hole in the narrative, right? And then it's it's all about propaganda, and and they're they've tried to pull this over on the on the Texas public, and they have vastly pulled it over. And that was my whole point. That's what made me mad. I've been working on this a long time. I've uh, you know, I've contacted I don't have a big enough voice, and uh people were scared to break this story because it there's repercussions, I'm sure. Uh bring it, you know, whatever. But they uh I'm even talking with Ped Nugent about it because he's he's got a voice and he's not scared, they can't cancel him. Uh there's a lot of people that are upset with them over the CWD deal, too. That are, I mean, this is all oh yeah, it all correlates, man. So where are we at on this? So Texans for Mountain Lions, they did this deal, they got these these bills passed, right? That's a couple years ago, three, three years ago, I guess. Really four, but anyway. Uh, so you haven't heard much about them. They're just kind of going down the road. Well, uh, meanwhile, uh Carter Smith, he retired, right? And that's what he kept a lot of this at bay, man. He really did. Uh I don't know. I know there's people that like him or dislike him or whatever. Uh, I know that he kept a lot of this at bay. Right. And when he retired, they they uh the commission nominates this Yoskowitz guy, right? Uh man, who is this? Because this is where he comes in. They bypassed everyone that was way overqualified to be the director of Texas Tortution Wildlife Department and hired somebody from the outside. Why? Why do you do that? Because they want to hire a yes man. And and I don't know if it's the commission of the commission, may not even aware of this. I mean, who knows? Uh uh, and so next thing you know, this David Yosopowicz is in charge. I'm like, man, who is this guy? So it bothered me. So I start looking into it, trying to figure out who is this guy, where did he come from? Well, right off the bat, he's uh H R I, H R I, this is an H R I. It's like, what is H R I? You know, he was he worked at H R I for the last 15 years and the director of it for the last two years. And like, what is HRI? Heart Research Institute. And so I look at it and it's spelled H-A-R-T-E. I'm like, oh my god, there's no way, there's no way this can't be true. So I look into it and sure as hell. Yep, the the hearts of the ones that financed HRI. Uh one of the hearts years ago, uh, Will Hart's grandfather, I believe, or father, I don't know, their family tree, but uh one of them gave uh started this uh heart research institute on the Gulf of Mexico to do Gulf Coast studies. And he's the one that gave him the money to start this to the tune of ma mu millions of dollars, right? So they were huge uh print moguls, newspaper moguls. Hell in San Angelo, we have a street called Houston Heart, and that was the grandfather. So um he gave this money to start this Heart Research Institute in the Gulf of Mexico for Gulf Coast Studies, which I'm sure was done in good faith, right? And I'm sure there's people there, the vast majority of them that work there are great people, probably all I don't know, but this guy was a director of the heart research. So he has been working for this lady and her husband, their family, uh for for 15 years, man. And now he is the director of Texas Parson Wildlife, yeah, and if that doesn't blow people's hair back, right? It should. So that's that's the whole point. The wolves are not. Everybody always says this. Ah yeah, this dude is a Californian, and he's a the head of the Texas Parson Wallet Department, and you won't find that, you have to look hard to find that. They have wolves swept that under the carpet. They do not want anybody to know that we have a certified California running the damn Texas Parson Wallet Department. They don't want anybody to know that. So we turn around and and you guys have to ask yourself, pal, how did this happen? And people, people look, this will never happen in Texas. I'm like, it already has. Right. So the wolves are not at the gate, we're not holding them at bay, they're in your bed, man. They are here, they are already in place, they are already running the show. And if that doesn't scare anybody in this state that likes to hunt, it should, because I I don't care if you like preter hunting or houndsmen, or maybe you and I don't like bow hunters, or I don't like this rifle hunters, or we're all hunters. We all have to band together because this is gonna affect all of us because it will not end. It will not end. And it's baby steps, and these are the baby steps, and the next thing that's coming down the pipe, they get this pushed through. So Safari Club International or Safari uh it's the SCI Foundation, Safari Club International Foundation, right? They're they're doing their own mountain line project right now because it's unbiased, right? They want it, they're in South Texas doing a counting, trying to get phototrap uh mountain lines and and and get their own number counts, right? And why to combat the inevitable research that's done to push push propaganda, right? So then they want to know, and I'm the first to I'm the first to tell you, hey, if the mountain lines are declining, I want to know. Right? I'm I'm all for protecting if they're declining. But if you're just trying to push a narrative that they're declining so that you can just stop people from hunting, then I'm out. Because we where we ranch, I can tell you right now, the mountain lines are not declining. I mean, they're not doing maybe they're declining nationwide, but they're all on our on our place. It's I mean, hell, right outside of Sanderson, one was hit with a train. So yeah. Uh I don't know if it's pretty pretty difficult. You don't hardly ever see a cat run over on the road. Right. Uh it's it's pretty rare. Uh you see a thousand deer or skunks, everything else before you see one, even a house cat. I mean, there's they're pretty methodical about what they do. And crossing in front of a car, especially a train, is pretty pretty rare. So, how many are there? They they kill the only mountain lion out there with a train. Come on. It's like, I mean, they only the uh a police officer in Longview, Texas ran over one, what a year ago? Yep. Um, there hasn't been a sighting, confirmed sighting in Longview, Texas, in years, right? I'm thinking like 50 or 60 years. So that that that's the whole narrative. They're say, well, that mountain lion, uh, he he was looking for a mate, and there's so few of them that he's having to travel even further to find a mate. Not they're overpopular where he was living, and he was getting his tail whipped by other male lines, and he's like, this young lion had to leave that territory to try to find his own. Not that their territory is expanding like it it is. It's well, he's just having to search for a mate and he's having to go all the way to Long B. Are you kidding me? But that that's the narrative, right? And no doubt when you said that this mountain lion was confiscated, I'd bet you $100 that was in South Texas, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 40:42

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Huh. How convenient.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

Right. Well, and and you know, that's what you're what you're talking about today, and that's what's what I kind of wanted to wrap up with as we get close to the end of our time together, is is these are not um opinions, these are not uh just far-flowing ideas or just one-off situations. I mean, you've got and in your post on social media, I mean, first of all, not everything on social media is true, we all know that, but you've gone to some extra links to back up what uh what you've been saying here today, and and and it's it's true. And and again, whether you agree with predator hunting as a competitive uh contest format or not, whether you agree with with uh the the stuff we talk about with mountain lions or not, uh the the it comes it boils down to the state agency that uh um is over the regulatory side of hunting and fishing, that should be over the conservation side of the natural resources in the state of Texas. Uh they're not playing above board. And and it seems like, I mean, you can point at CWD, you know, they walk back the CWD stuff severely, but they've never admitted, hey, we might have been wrong about CWD, and they never will. Uh you see state after state after state walking back CWD stuff. Um and it's just another example of of a narrative that gets that gets there, that gets pushed. Somebody with one of the letters behind their name is going all out on this theory or this this supposed fact, and now we're not gonna walk it back. So uh it should be scary to those of us who uh enjoy hunting and enjoy the freedom that we have in this state. You know, we think of Texas as this like the Alamo, like this is the last state where everything is, you know, nothing's gonna happen in Texas and nothing's gonna be changed in Texas. And let me tell you, I don't want to get political here, but but um a change is is coming. I mean, whether we like it or not, in in probably rural and more conservative central West Texas, a change is coming to our state uh politics, it's coming to state agencies, and you know, I think that that means that we have got to be even more uh vocal, but also we've got to kind of put our money where our mouth is in terms of our best practices. Um, you know, we've got to be careful on social media, we've got to be um kind of that above reproach kind of thing has got to come into play because it's gonna be important. I think if we want to if we want to have these rights and freedoms for our kids, grandkids, and their their kids' generations, um, it's we got to get serious about it.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

Yeah, we've got to get serious about it. And it's uh, you know, with the grants and the state park operations and the wildlife conservation goals and the special funding, that's the the budget is supplemented by uh one billion dollar investment in the uh Centennial Pars Conservation Fund. That happened in twenty twenty three. We all voted on that, right? So here's here's the bottom line this is not about predator hunting, this is not about lion hunting. This is not about hunting in general. This is about a rogue state agency that you have no control over. This is about freedom. If you believe in freedom, you better get involved because you're talking about a state agency that controls an annual budget of $1,600,000,000 and they are unchecked. They are unchecked. There's no other agency in the state that I I can name that if I don't like what's going on, I'll vote a different guy in there. I'll run. I'll do whatever I need to do to make the change. You have no control. Okay. None. Absolutely none. Would they do it? No. But if they wanted to say, hey, we're not shooting white-tailed deer next year. Guess what? Zero control. Now, would people throw throw a fit and have this change? Yes. And so I'm asking people to throw a fit and have this changed. This is the the governor has the power to to go in there and and obviously get on there and fire a or push on the commission to fire the the uh um the director. And I don't really don't know where his heart stands, but I can tell you this, it doesn't look good, man. And if he was a judge overseeing some trial, he'd have to recuse himself. I mean, right. There's obvious some conflict there, yeah. It's obvious. It it looks like it looks like it, man. I mean, and and these people are self-proclaimed animal rights activists, and I mean, oh Pam Hart, Pamela Hart has no credentials whatsoever. She wrote children's books at one time, she's a massage therapist, she's on the board of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Wildlife Diversity Board. Ow. Yeah, why? Right, what that's like putting me on the board of NASA.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

Oh, come on, you could do that. You already talked about walking on the moon, Jaywalking.

SPEAKER_01 45:44

Well, they just yeah, I could wing it, you know, but come on. It's like, well, Jeremy, what do you think the trajectory of this rock in New Zealand? Dude, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 45:52

It's like a hole over on the rifle. Oh, it's about three inches high, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

Yeah, yeah, there's a hole in the clouds right there. Shoot it through that. I don't know. But yeah, it's uh I mean, and the only people that that really have control over what's going on, really, is what nobody nobody nobody's heard of this. I hadn't heard of it either, but um there's a whole board of people, right? Um there's five Texas senators and five Texas representatives, and it's there's there's also two um two civilians that are on there that are appointed, I believe, by the governor. It's called the Sunset Commission. Right. Okay, I was gonna say sunset, yeah. Yeah, so the Sunset Commission audits every state agency, and it's on a cycle, you know, it comes like whatever, three or four years, right? And they say, Hey, here's your budget. What'd you do with it? And they deem whether an agency is viable or not. Now, am I advocating to shut down Texas Parks and Wildlife? Hell no. You talk about absolute chaos. There are great people that work there, right? And there are, they do a great, just this is the greatest state on earth when it comes to hunting opportunities. There's nothing like it. Nothing. So it chaffs my rear end to know that when we're doing these mountain lion deals, they bring in these experts from these other states who have absolutely just trashed their wildlife programs and and want them to come talk to them about what needs to happen with the mountain. I'm like, this is the greatest state on earth. We don't need advice from other states that screw their wildlife programs up, right? We don't.

unknown 47:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

This there's no other state on earth that has more hunting opportunities than Texas. And the reason being is it's vastly privately owned and privately run. This is a uh stab and a reach for private property control. I mean, there's there's people up there right now, right now, that don't believe that you should even be able to own private property. And if you do, they don't believe you should be able to lock these biologists and state game people out of it because the state owns the wildlife. Yeah, yeah.

unknown 48:04

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

But they want to free graze their lions on you and free graze their coyotes on you, and now free graze gray wolves, red wolves, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Hybrid wolves, hybrid coyote, red wolves. Yeah. I saw that earlier too, and that's gonna be another, we'll have to take another uh day and talk about that. But if you're if you're interested in in what Jeremy's talking about and what we've been discussing uh today on the show, uh you can go to www.sunset.texas, spelled out texas.gov, and uh you can see the commission members. I'm on the site right now. Uh Jeremy, and there's a vacancy for a public member. So I'm gonna nominate you to serve on the Sunset Advisory Commission.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Yeah, I'm gonna just shoot for NASA. We're lucky to get that.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Jeremy Harrison, uh out of San Angelo, Texas, Wall, Texas, actually. Uh the great state of wall, wall, uh uh, or the great, the great area of wall, I should say. Um, a lot of great people, a lot of good friends to find out in that area. So hey, thanks so much for your time. Uh let's talk again soon and and uh uh let's talk let's talk more predator hunting when you when you come back on the show. But man, thanks for raising this issue up. Uh thanks for having the courage to to to get your voice out there and uh uh appreciate what you're what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Yeah, I appreciate you guys. And I I never dreamed it would go as far as it did. And then and it gives me new faith in in the people of this state because people cared enough to share it and read it, and it's long, and and and like you said, I it's true, and it's unfortunately true. I wish it wasn't. I really wish it wasn't. But it's the scary times we live in, and we gotta get involved, and we're gonna it's gonna be to the detriment. And don't get involved for you. Get involved with your kids. Get involved with your grandkids, because that's that's who this is gonna affect um for generations to come. Please get involved.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Well, that's all the time we have for the show today. We thank you for stopping by and joining us on the Lone Star Trail. We invite you to come back next week, same time, same place. And you can find us on Facebook and write to us at Lone Star Trailradio at gmail.com. We'd love to see those hunting pictures and stories. From all of us here at the show. Thanks for listening so long.