More than a Mirror

In this episode, we’re having an honest conversation about body idolization—how easily our appearance, fitness goals, health routines, and even the image we present to the world can begin to take first place in our hearts. We share personal experiences of striving for approval, chasing unrealistic standards, and wrestling with the pressure to make our bodies an endless self-improvement project rather than seeing them through the lens of God’s truth.

Together, we dive into what Scripture says about our bodies, what it means to steward them well without worshiping them, and how to recognize when good things have quietly become idols. We also talk through practical ways to pursue accountability, cultivate holy living, and keep Christ at the center of our lives instead of our appearance, performance, or the opinions of others.

This episode is a reminder that our worth is not found in what the mirror reflects or what the world applauds, but in who we are in Christ.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to the Living with Grace and Sass Podcast. We are your co-hosts, Katie and Sierra. And over the next few episodes, we're going to unpack what idolatry looks like in today's world, how it quietly shows up in our everyday lives, and just how the word of God calls us back to truth, freedom, and wholehearted devotion to him.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

On this week's episode, we are talking specifically about our bodies as idols, what that looks like in our personal lives, what that looks like in culture, and how we combat that to be women who pursue the Lord while also stewarding our bodies well as the gift that God has given us. So, Sierra, we're just gonna jump right in. Um, and I think the first thing we have to talk about in any conversation about idols is what are idols. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

Um I think just your basic answer to that question is um it's whatever's replacing God is first.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And I think it can be anything. Anything that we place above God in our affections, in our worship, and our trust and our security, um, anything that takes that first place in our life can become an idol, or has already become an idol if we're putting it in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yes, it's like whatever's taking up the most time in your mind rent-free. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yeah, what is living rent-free in your mind the majority of the time? Yeah, can become an idol in our lives. And as I was kind of thinking through this topic and preparing for this podcast episode, um, I was just kind of looking at what does scripture say about idols, and um, I was not at all surprised to find that scripture mentions idolatry or placing things above the Lord over 200 times throughout the Bible. That is crazy. Yeah, that's a lot. It is a lot. So God is obviously very serious in um in his command for us not to have things above him. Um, and he begins by telling them, you know, way back in Exodus, whenever they come out of Egypt and he begins to give them the law, we kind of begin to see this idea of not having any other gods before him. Um, and then really we see it all throughout the rest of scripture about how God should be in first place in our lives. You know, in Exodus 20, when he's giving them the the Ten Commandments, he says, You shall not make for yourself a carved image of any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God. So we see that from the very beginning when he's giving them the law in Exodus, and then we see it over and over again. He talks about it in Leviticus, he talks about it in Deuteronomy. Um we go to first Samuel chapter twelve, and Samuel says to the people, Do not be afraid, you have done all this evil, yet do not turn aside from following the Lord, but serve the Lord with all your heart, and do not turn aside after empty things that cannot profit or deliver, for they are empty. So you continue to see these themes show up. Jesus talks about it in the New Testament of how we should love the Lord our God with all of our heart. Paul um, you know, warns them against putting other things before him. And so I think it's important that we, as believers, like do take this seriously because it's easy to say, well, I don't have idols, I don't make like carved images, I don't have statues that I'm worshiping. We live in a world that's easy to say that, but we put a lot of things before the Lord, and a lot of things sometimes have first place in my heart and mind, and so that really is an idol. And I think we have to be willing to call those things out in our lives and and acknowledge them, and I think that's part of why you and I want to kind of do these next few episodes talking specifically about this topic.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Yes, I mean, and to kind of jump off the um what's in our hearts. I mean, back in 1 Samuel 16 7, he says, But the Lord said to Samuel, do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him. For the Lord sees not as what sees not as man sees. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on to the onto the heart. Um, and so that just really um amplifies what takes time in our mind and in our hearts, because no, we may not have those physical idols that we're holding on to. I mean, someone can be a physical idol, but but in the aspect of talking about our bodies, um, yes, it's a physical thing, but what's consuming your mind? Yeah, yeah. What's taking up so much more space to where you're not leaving much room for the Lord? And I have felt guilty in preparation for this podcast. It's been a it's been a uh I don't want to say lifelong because obviously not as a baby, but this body idolatry has been a struggle of my personally for so many years. I mean, we talked about you know about when we were younger, just how we didn't know people like I can't name people that was in my circle that would constantly talk about their body, whether good or bad, just never really talked about bodies. Yeah. Um, so society just naturally made me obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah. Yeah, I don't I can't think of anybody like growing up that I thought was like always obsessed with their appearance or always talking about. I can't even think of anyone personally like that. Um, but you and I both told each other stories about different times growing up, you know, kind of those teenage years, especially where we felt self-conscious about our bodies in one way or another, and like almost that shame that kind of comes into that conversation naturally of like, oh, I felt like I had to look this way, or I felt like I was this and everybody else was this, or things like that. It just kind of comes up naturally. And I would not say, Oh, yeah, like I idolize my body, but but sometimes we do, and not even realizing it, but the way that we have conditioned, um, I would say, especially women, to to look at their bodies, to think about their bodies, to um, you know, to whatever, obsess over their appearance definitely has conditioned us to put that at the forefront of our minds a lot of the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

The crazy thing is just thinking about how we really if we when we were looking back, we noticed that these things um developed even before social media. I mean, we're millennials. I'm not gonna share an age. I mean, I don't really care, but I've always said multiple times over context. But we're in that, I guess, more so elderly. Yeah, for sure. When we were there before and after the start of social media. And so, um, it just really proves that society just as a whole has made your appearance such a main focus in marketing, advertising, relationships, um, self-worth, and just all these things. I mean, we're part of the diet culture, American Sextile Model. Like, I remember oh, what's that book? Um, Something for the Soul. Or Soul something. But they had like Chicken Soup for the Soul. Is that it? Do you remember those? I do remember I don't think that's it. I do remember those. What are you talking about? There was I can't, I'll have to look it up, but there was a book and it talked about some kind of like fast diet thing. I remember wanting that book so bad, and I was mad that my library didn't have it because I wanted to read it because it's gonna fix all my problems.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Yeah, it's definitely like the lie that we were told as millennials, I think. Yes, so many things in culture created this idea of like your body has to look a certain way. Um, I remember growing up all the time, and people were like, sex sells in advertisement. And it wasn't like sex, it was like how your body looked. Yes, like sexy sales sells is what actually people were saying. Yes. Um, and you have to look this way because that's what everybody was advertising, because that's what would make people buy these products. Because you're like, well, if she looks like that and she uses this, then I will also look like that if I use that. You know, like we did that for so long as a culture that it doesn't even feel weird, like it feels like the norm because it just was and is still to an extent, I think. And I think social media heightens that. Oh, because I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, both of the the instances you and I told each other earlier about feeling that kind of shame or like knowing my body looked different than somebody else's were pre-social media. So I think social media just put a like a magnifying glass on it because then you see everybody's stuff before you weren't seeing it, but now everybody's posting these things. And man, when I tell you, I used to judge people hardcore for posting selfies. Like I remember going through a phase where I was like, oh, I will never, and then lo and behold, I bought a selfie stick, and I was like, oh, but I will. I'll post pictures. But why? It's because I was getting attention from it, and like the whole like good attention, bad attention thing, whatever, that's a whole nother conversation. But like it kind of fueled that in me to be like, well, if I post these pictures that look a certain way, then I'm getting attention, and when I get that attention, well, then I just want to do that more. So it just continued fueling that.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Oh, yeah. Especially in college because yeah, Instagram had taken off, and so um I remember like, okay, this picture got so many likes. Yeah, a lot of likes from men. Yeah. But this picture didn't really, and it'll just be me and friends or me and my dog, I don't know, something random. Yeah. But if I angled myself just right, you know, do a little booty pop out there.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

It got more attention.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

I was like, I want it's making me feel good. Yeah, exactly. I um I'm gonna share this because my husband already knows this. This is something we've already talked about extensively. Um, but you know, I prior to meeting Nathan went on like this kind of like I'm gonna get healthy. I was in a terrible place just emotionally. Um, and so I was like, you know, what can I do? What can I control? And like working out was one of those things. So I was single, I was working out all the time. Like, I'd get up in the morning, I'd work out, I'd go work out at lunch, I'd go work out when I got home. All these things I ended up losing all this weight, and the amount of attention that I got from men skyrocketed significantly when I lost weight. And so that too fueled this idea in my head that, like, oh, as the bigger girl, no one likes me. But if I lose 30 pounds, then oh, now I'm getting all this attention. And again, not great attention, but it was attention and it was like feel filling this thing in me that I wanted because I was miserable being single. I wanted, I wanted a relationship, and so I wanted someone to notice me. And so then I'm getting all this attention by like multiple different men. And I'm like, oh, this is great. So let me keep doing this and let me keep posting these pictures, all the while telling girls that I was mentoring, like, don't act like this, don't do this. This isn't healthy. Your worth is not found in what your body looks like, but I was so conditioned in that moment to think that's exactly what where my worth is because that's what society is telling me. Guys are telling me that I look good now because I lost weight, but I didn't, and I wasn't worth the attention then. And man, that screwed me up for a long time. It did, it also made me make choices that I would not have made at other seasons in my life because it was filling this like longing inside of me. And so I think that's a question that we have to ask ourselves here is like what fear or what thing inside of us is fueling this idea of body idolization? Because for me it was loneliness, it was wanting to to be in a relationship, to not be single, to have someone uh you know in my life, and so that was really kind of fueling the body idolization for me in that season. But what are some other things that you think as a culture fuels that because something is fueling that within all of us?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

Um, I think also the fear of rejection. Um there's definitely a lot of that fear as a single person when it comes to dating. Um, I think of people going to um like parties or outings and just the fear of if I don't have someone there with me, no one's gonna talk to me. And it's because I look this way or that way. Um I think face-to-face rejection is definitely harder. Yeah, I agree with you. Versus like online dating or or I don't know what else online you can do social-wise. But um just definitely that fear of being told you're not good enough. Yeah. You're not good enough for my attention. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Yeah, because we've made society so hyper focused on outward appearance, which you know is directly contradictory to the scripture that you read and what we see over and over in scripture where God's like, I you look on the outward appearance, but I look at the heart, and that's why I'm rejecting so and so, and that's why I'm choosing this person instead. Um, but we have flipped that completely in society. Oh, yeah. And we lead eyes first, like we lead with appearance and how someone looks being our number one thing. And so we have like it's hard not to do that.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Oh, absolutely, because I mean, don't get me wrong, if I walk into a coffee shop and there's this handsome cowboy, yes, we're in Texas, yeah. There's this handsome cowboy getting getting a coffee. I mean, obviously, I'm going to turn and look versus I mean, me personally, versus the guy over there in the suit, I'm gonna look this way first. I mean, it's just it's just something we naturally do, and I'm not trying to say wholeheartedly that that is wrong, but but if you're going into it with the mindset of I want what looks good versus I want someone who has the same mindset as me, the same um desire to know the Lord, the same family um um like background. Thank you, background, like all those things like the past when I think about like my past relationships or past things, like I definitely just looked at what they looked like, and then the deeper I got into, I was like, I don't really like this person. Yeah. This is not what I want.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Yeah, I and again, I think we do that. We like we look first, we look first at appearance, and then we decide if if everything lines up after that. But really, it should be the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

And that's even with friendships too. I'm not saying just relationships. That's friendships. I mean, high school, who's the popular girl? I want to be her friend, yeah, exactly. Reality, the popular girl has like the biggest, I mean, insecurities. Yeah. But yet they put on this perfect persona, yeah. So it it's not just relationship, it's friendships, it's work environment. Who's the cool person in the office? I want to hang out with them. Oh, but really, if you hang out with them, you learn that they talk trash about everyone in the office, but then are friendly to their face. Yeah, that's so good. I mean, it's just there's so many different levels to appearance.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yeah, and I think that's the key there. Like, body body idolization is not just how our body physically looks. We idolize all those other things, like the stuff that people have, the clothes that they're wearing, the cars that they're driving. Um, you know, is she the popular girl? Or is no one talking to her? You know, like we idolize all these other things. And I you said it, I about the popular girl. I can think of several people in my life now that come off as like very confident because they have a lot of stuff, or because their appearance is always like perfect, but really what I know deep down about those people are they're actually very insecure. They don't actually have a lot of confidence in who they are, um, because that their outward appearance has become the like number one thing. And I always have to present like this perfect picture of my house and my kids and my family and all these things, um, because that is what they are finding their worth in. And I'm not saying that to dog them, I'm saying it from a point of like it's actually really sad to me that that is where those people sometimes find their worth. And I'm not saying I haven't done that at times, I just gave you definitely tons of examples of like, you know, my own journey and like seeking affirmation from other places. But I I think this whole idea, this whole topic of like idolizing our bodies and how social media fuels that doesn't just stop at our physical bodies. It it goes so much deeper than that, of the appearance that we're putting forth to people. What is what do people see when they look at me and what do they think about? Is it that oh she's got a perfect house and her has a perfect husband and her kids are all dressed perfectly and well behaved and all these things, it goes so much deeper than just like, oh, she's really skinny and she's got great clothes, and you know, all these things. Um, so we have to look at that in our own lives of how are we presenting that, and then also what are we looking at for other people too.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I think also um there's a fear of there's a big fear, especially in like Hollywood and all that jazz of aging. Yeah, for sure. Like, there's constantly a new trend. I can't keep up with the trends. There's too many. It's overwhelming. But there's constantly a trend of how to look younger. Yes. That's a constant marketing tactic. How to look younger. Do A, B, and C. Take this pill, the shot, this cream, this take your forehead up. Take your neck. Oh, or your ear, get your earlobes. Like the older woman, they'll they'll have surgery on their earlobes. I saw what's her. Chris Kardashian. She'll like because you're I've learned this like lately in life that your ears continue to grow, which I'm not gonna lie, it freaks me out a little bit, just the thought of that. But she had surgery to to shorten her earlobes to make her look younger. I'm like, that's actually a surgery? That's a thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

It was crazy. It's crazy to me. It is, it is. You know, you know, and I I'm sure people on this podcast know too already, that I am so on the crunchy side of things that I'm so like anti-Botox and things like that. Oh, yeah. Because it's a toxin that you're injecting into your body, like it's literally a poison. Um, you know, I'm so anti those things. You know, I don't need to go down that rabbit hole today. Another day. Today. We're gonna have a whole podcast episode on all the crunchy things. That's gonna be a fun one. Um, but you know, that's such it's such a common thing of people not wanting to look like they're getting older. Like we are going to inject literally every part of our body and and disregard all of the things that say this is actually terrible for you. This actually causes a lot of problems um because we want to look a certain way. We don't want people to think that we've aged. And I also kind of the older I get, the more I'm like, dude, that is a slap in the face to anyone that has lost someone important to them, like young in life. Because aging is like something that's denied to a lot of people. Yes, is better, way better than the alternative. Yes, exactly. You know, like Nathan's mom passed away in her 50s, and so we always talk about how I always say, you know, I wish one, I would have gotten to meet her, two, that our kids would have gotten to meet her. Um, like she didn't get to age, she didn't get to be a 70-year-old grandma. Yeah. Um, but it's okay for her, it would have been okay for her to look like a 70-year-old grandma. But even our older generations were telling them, like, oh, you better not look like that. You better not look like you're aging. Mm-hmm. Which is so bizarre to me. You want me to look like a mannequin?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, exactly. You want me to have the face where I can't smile because I've so m I and Excuse me. I'm not trying to come off as judgmental. No, I agree. Um, I mean, we're all our individual persons, so to each our own. Yeah. But personally, I don't understand The what's wrong with wrinkles? I agree. I've actually like someone talked about how I don't remember when this was, but like how the the wrinkles by your eyes, like they're you have smile wrinkles. And I was like, whoa, I've never thought of it that way. Like that person smiles a lot. Yes. So they developed that wrinkle. And I know I definitely have the wrinkle in between my eyebrows because I definitely made that brows. Yes. So like stuff like that. Like I've never thought about, oh, those are smile wrinkles. Like, I actually love that. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Why do you want to get rid of that? Yeah. Why do we want to erase those things from our appearance? Yes. Oh, that's crazy. And I agree with you. Like everybody has to decide on those things on their own, like what they're going to do. And I cannot look at someone's heart and or mine and say, she's getting Botox or she's getting lip filler because she's insecure. Like, I cannot say that. I don't know that. Um, unless you're really close to me. I don't know that. Yeah. Um, we do all have to decide that on our own. But I think to our point, it's this idea of as a culture overall, we've come become so obsessed with our bodies and what that looks like that we have crossed the line of taking care of them into obsessing and idolizing over them.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

Yes, most definitely. And um, I'm definitely personally guilty of this. I remember uh it was my sophomore year of college, and I was so obsessed with meeting this goal weight um that I actually put like my starting weight on a sticky note, and then I had each weight going down on a sticky note. And I every morning on the dot, as soon as I get up and I go pee or whatever to get any accessible weight out, I am weighing myself naked. Men don't understand that either, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Which is crazy. My husband will like weigh fully clothed, all this stuff in his pockets, and I'm like, no, that's crazy. I have to weigh first thing in the morning completely naked.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yes. Okay. I would never even ask the doctor's office. Can you take off like a pound and a half? My shoes, my sweater, like what else could I get out of my pockets? Because I can't obviously strip in the middle of the hallway. Yeah, like, can you take off some, please? Um, they never do. No, they're but I remember doing that, and my mood would actually determine if I can take off a sticky note number, yeah, my mood was better. But if I had to either keep it or add one, oh, my whole day I was it was I was in a bad mood. Yeah. All day.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

Yeah. I'm like, that's so. And no one no one taught you to do that. No, no one was like, here, you know, your mood's affected by whether you can take off or add a pound. Um, but we have we have created a society and a culture, and I think it ultimately comes from not being a, and I say this to myself, not being fully confident in that moment or that season of who I am in the Lord and who God created me to be. That you know, scripture talks about God has made our bodies. Psalm 139 is all about how we are fearfully and wonderfully made, how he knits us together, every part of us. And I know that I can say that to somebody, but then when it comes to my own body, am I actually living that out? Or am I like, okay, I trust you, Lord. But we really need to work on this part of whatever.

SPEAKER_01 25:32

Yes. Oh, and that verse, like, I can honestly say I battle with that verse in a lot of seasons because when it comes to my physical appearance, like my ear for instance. Yeah, I was born one ear, I had all these surgeries, blah, blah, blah. I'm much more confident in having one ear than I am in wearing shorts in public. Because I'm like, no one's gonna notice my ear, but everybody looks at my thighs. Girl, I struggle because how can I say, like, I have one part of my brain that's like, you are made in the image of God. Right. But no, you need to work on these things so you can be more approachable, more beautiful, like all that, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Like a constant battle in my head. I am right there with you. That's how I feel about tank tops or like sleeveless shirts. Like, I love them. I have some cute sleeveless dresses, but I'm like, how can I wear that? Because then my arms are gonna show. Like, you're made in the image of God, uh-huh, but your arms, like, it's such this like dichotomy that we've created in our minds. Yes. Um how we self-talk to ourselves and how we look at the bodies that God has given us as like this constant project that I need to be fixing. Yes, which is totally contrary to scripture. No, exactly. It's not what God has called us to do.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

I mean, scriptures are gonna say you need to be this BMI before you can go and share the gospel. Right.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Okay, and the thing is, and I think you and I both would agree wholeheartedly on this, that we absolutely have to steward our bodies. We have to care for them. We get one body, we get one life. God has given us bodies, he's made them to work beautifully. Um, you know, being in the medical field, you and I both agree on that. That God has created our bodies very well with very good design, very good intention. Um, and we need to steward them well. I always say movement is medicine, you know. I completely water fuels the body. There's a lot of things we can do to take care of our bodies, and we should. I also don't think that we should be slavs. Like, I do think that we should care about our appearance, but not to the point that it becomes the most important thing. I remember um teaching a Bible study not that long ago, and I had just decided I was gonna start dressing a little more like put together for myself. I wanted to look a little more polished, a little more put together. Um, and so I was teaching one night, and someone was like, Oh, you're all dressed up tonight. And I said, Oh, I just want to look like a little bit more professional while I'm teaching. And the person's immediate response was like, I don't care what people think about my appearance. And it ticked me off because the implication was this that I was doing it for other people. I was doing it because I cared what the people sitting in the Bible study thought, which wasn't true at all. But also, I take teaching Bible study very seriously. I take that position, that role very seriously, and I just want to steward that well. I want to be put together. That's not to say that God is like, oh, she's teaching in biker shorts and a t-shirt, so that disqualifies her. Obviously, the Lord doesn't say that, but also I can present myself as a sacrifice to the Lord and like appreciate what He has given me and appreciate um and present myself in a way that honors that without it being an obsession. Yeah. So it there has to be a fine line there. We can't also just assume that someone's like obsessing over it because they want to look nice. We should steward our bodies well, we should take care of them, we should steward our appearance, but from a point of honor and glory to the Lord, and not a point of I'm trying to get attention, and this is the most important thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

No, I agree because if we don't have that right and appropriate view of our bodies, then um it definitely can affect our relationship with the Lord. And I think also I don't I mean, I can't speak for you, but like you wanting to dress more professionally, does that not give you more confidence in talking about the Lord? Yeah, for sure. But I feel like um I know they say to come he says to come as you are, but I think also come as as we respect him. Yeah. Like we we go as when we go to a um a job interview, yeah. We can't come dressed as as I'm dressed now in biker shorts and t-shirt. Right. Um, because then that's just showing that I don't respect this position. I don't respect the person who I'm talking with. Yeah. Um, and I'm not gonna lie, sometimes when I do come to church in leggings, I don't want to say I feel ashamed, like I feel ashamed of wearing that, but I don't feel like I'm putting myself in a position to receive the word as well as if I do come dress even jeans in a nice t-shirt, and I actually do my hair, because sometimes I'm just throwing this baby up in a bun and call it a day. No, I think it's just having respect for yourself, having respect for the Lord brings forth that wanting to take care of our bodies, wanting to um have a just a more presentable appearance, I guess you say.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. I I think cult church culture has changed so much. You know, I grew up in a church, church culture has changed a lot over the last 30 plus years um as far as like what is acceptable to wear a church, what's not acceptable to wear a church. And I think you and I, neither one of us are saying you have to show up looking a certain way. That's not at all what we would say. We want everyone to come, regardless of how you look. Yes, but it is also okay to steward your appearance, to take care of your appearance in a way that honors the Lord and glorifies him and shows respect for that, for who God is, because God is holy. Yes, and I think sometimes we come at it on the opposite end of where it still becomes an idol to the point that we're like, actually, it doesn't matter what I wear, it doesn't matter, you know, how I look. Right. Like it doesn't have any bearing on our salvation, it doesn't have any bearing on God's favor with us, but like the job interview, I'm not gonna show up wearing flip-flops and biker shorts and a t-shirt to a job interview because it doesn't respect that position. So I can also dress well or, you know, care for my appearance, care for my body in a way that honors the Lord because I respect him. And I think when we don't, when we have it messed up, when we don't have a right view of what God has said about us, um, then we get into this point where it begins to affect our relationship with him. Because if I'm so obsessed with what I look like, what my body looks like, what the world says I, you know, my BMI should be, whatever, when I'm so obsessed with those things and I begin to forget what God has said about me, and that he has made my body good, and he has made me to be his to be his creation, to be his vessel. So we it it all comes from a point of having to know who God says we are and what God has said about our bodies. We should take care of them, we should steward them well, um, but not in a way that it affects our relationship with the like not in a way that negatively affects our relationship with the Lord. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Um and I think there's been um a lot of movements that have really caused a blurred line. Yes. In that. Um, I mean, first and foremost, the body positivity movement was in my and this is ultimately my opinion, is I think that it has caused a negative effect more so towards women. I mean, men also have been affected, but yeah, definitely more so towards women in taking care of their bodies. Um, I mean, I I felt guilty to that. Yeah. Um, that um my body is a temple, but it shouldn't matter what size I am, right? I'm still a great person, blah blah blah. So let me go and eat all this unhealthy food, all these little Debbie snacks, and go to uh Chick-fil-A four or five times a week. Like let me do all these things, but let me not go and at least just walk. Right. Let me try to squeeze myself into these jeans and and wear this um um revealing top because it's my body and yeah, like it oh like I remember so many times of just thinking you just need to accept me as I am. Yeah. Well no, please don't, because at that time in my life, I was probably the the mentally most unhealthy. Yeah. And that to me, if you're if someone's wanting to just be accepted as they are, to me that's enabling the the uh unhealthy uh uh mindset, the unhealthy eating, yeah, um, the unhealthy lifestyle, the laziness, and all of these things go against God's word. It goes against the um the fact that he created us in his likeness.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah. Yeah, it it's exactly what you said, like reinforcing those things or like just continuing to affirm those things in each other's lives is actually very contrary to scripture. It ignores the fact that God talks a lot about not being a glutton and just eating whatever we want to satisfy ourselves, not being, you know, like my four-year-old will tell me this story all the time. She reenacts it of like Jesus in the wilderness and Satan asking Jesus to like throw himself down or just eat this thing, you know, all these temptations. And Jesus says, No, like I don't need that. Man doesn't live on bread alone, and no, man must not tempt the Lord his God, all these things. We ignore that when we're affirming each other in our terrible choices, you know. We ignore the fact that scripture says don't be a glutton. We ignore the fact that scripture talks a lot about not being lazy. Um, you said several other things. I'm like, yeah, that's actually very contrary to scripture. But we talked about this the other day in a different context, but that we've created these spaces in the church, too, I'm afraid, where we just affirm each other's feelings instead of actually calling each other to sanctification and actually calling each other to holy living. Where we're like, actually, it is fine if you don't care for your body. Actually, it is fine if you um oh, the other thing I thought was like dress modestly. Like scripture talks about modest dress. Um, like I don't want my husband seeing someone else's chest falling out of their shirt. I also don't want to to reveal that to other people, you know. But like we're like, oh, it's fine, it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter what you wear. And like, yes, come, but also let's be sanctified. Yes. And let's like pursue holy living together in how we care for our bodies and not just be like, it's fine, you don't have to take care of it.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

And to also let's be open to when those close to us are calling us to sanctification. Don't think, don't think that, oh, hey, maybe you shouldn't be wearing that top to church. Yes. Don't think that I'm attacking you as a person. Right. Like that's not that's not why I say that. One, we should have that relationship where I can have that conversation with you. But then two, that's just me knowing that you're trying to continue on this walk in the Lord. How do I know that wearing the shirt maybe is the start of or veering away? Yeah. Um, and so I think that's something also that's hard is hearing that um oh, what's the word? Like not confrontation, but hearing that conviction. Oh, yeah, conviction.

SPEAKER_02 38:33

There we go.

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Yeah. Um, but hearing that conviction from from those around us that I know love me. Yes. And just want me to stay on the path. Yeah. And that's what they're doing, is they're helping me stay on the path. They're not pointing a finger, right? Saying, I'm doing this better, so let me come and tell you what you're doing wrong. That's not because we've all been tempted. Yes, exactly. I mean, I'm so grateful that we serve a Lord that has never been tempted or has been tempted, but never um answered on this temptation. And so, I mean, we are human and we do follow temptation, but we also need to remember that we're striving for the likeness of the Lord, and the the more we can avoid that temptation, yeah, the better we are in walking in the Lord, in the likeness of the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

Yeah. And I think like practically played out, like one way we do that um is like knowing what temptations we are likely to fall to, right? Um, like we have a friend that got off of Instagram because she was comparing everything in her life to other people's and like buying stuff. And so she said it was just too much of a temptation to go buy what other people had, and I was spending money I didn't need to spend. Um, so she got off of Instagram. And so I think it's like finding those things and being honest about those things. Like if I know that I'm susceptible to seeking other people's like validation by the pictures that I post or the things that I post, then I probably need to get off of those platforms if that's something that I, you know, fall victim to. Um, if I know that I tend to obsess over this part of my appearance or that part of my appearance, then I need to put in like accountability, like you were saying, that's gonna say, hey, this doesn't look like holy living. This isn't a reflection of who God is.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

Yeah, like I definitely, me personally, because I know I have I guess you I guess you could say it's an addictive personality. I mean, my brother and I both him totally worse. Um, but I do know that I can hyperfixate on something. And a lot of times it has to do with my body in some shape or form. Like, if you scroll through my camera roll, I have like way too many pictures, but if you scroll through my camera roll during my college years, there's so many pictures of me taking pictures of my body. Yeah. Like in shorts and a bra, like day one and day 30, and or uh my star weight is this, and it like just all these, I guess we would I wanted to call them progress photos, but no, they're definitely I was definitely obsessed with trying to meet that goal, yeah, getting on the scale every day, yeah. Um trying to fit in these this one pair of jeans that I had, um, and like and then boasting about it online to get that attention. Like, so I know that I have that type of personality. So when I looked for those accountability partners now in my life, um, I look for those that I one know will call me out. Yeah. Um, and I know they call it out out of love. Yeah. Um, but to also just to keep me on like that path. Um, like, yes, let's keep moving, let's keep working towards these things, but let's not obsess over it. Let's also how is this showing the Lord? Yeah. Yeah, exactly. How is this how is doing the share of the gospel? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

Kind of things. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, because I think it's that it's like deciding that it's switching that mindset of obsessing over my appearance or what people are seeing about me, you know. I think that's kind of what we're using here, not just my physical appearance, but what I'm presenting to others, from obsessing over that to how can I use the body and the resources that God has given me to share the gospel, to to be a good steward of what God's given me and to reflect Him, to glorify Him. You know, I love Um I said it in a conference talk, like that new city Catechism says, like, what is the chief end of man? It's to glorify God and enjoy him forever. And so that's glorifying God in everything that I do. Um, it's switching that mindset to spend more time on my spiritual growth than it is my fear, my physical appearance. And it has to be a switch, like one they shouldn't be equal, even our spiritual growth should be the number one thing. Pursuing holiness, pursuing the Lord should be the top thing. Way more than what does my body look like? It doesn't mean that my physical appearance doesn't matter, that my health doesn't matter, those things do matter. But I think you and I both agree we have become so hyper fixated on ourselves as a culture and our bodies as women, and like protecting our peace, all of these things I could go on and on and on that we've created this culture that says you have to take care of you as number one. And that's actually contrary to scripture. I have to focus on the Lord as number one and put the right things in the right place and order everything from there.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Yes. And you know, I was just thinking about this as you were talking is that you know, our joy comes from the Lord. Yeah. Ultimately, our joy comes from the Lord. There may be things in on earth that make us happy. Right. But I mean, happiness is only for a short period of time. But joy comes from the Lord. And that saying comparison is a thief of joy. The comparison of our physical appearance is robbing us from I mean, enjoying that time with family or friends. Like I can I I can think of people, myself included, where we're focused on, oh, I put on this much weight and I don't really want to see these people. Right. Because they've seen me when I was this size. Right. And now I'm this size. Like I'm about to go back to my um hometown. I'm like, oh, I haven't seen these people in like over 10 years. And I definitely don't look the same. And it's like actually in my head, it bothers me. But I'm going to go see a family, and I don't want that to steal the time I'm spending with that family. Like sure. Oh man, I just it like that literally just like hit me in the face.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

No, it's true. I made the joke because I saw someone, a friend from high school at the gas station. Um after I've been working outside all day and I looked like garbage, like sweaty, dirty. My legs were dirty. I used a baby wipe to wipe my legs off before I went into the store. Um, and then I was like getting back in my car, you know, someone stops me that I went to high school with and was good friends with, and I was just like cringing because I was like, I haven't seen this person in I don't know, probably I haven't seen him specifically in pro maybe 10 years, uh maybe five. I don't know. It's been a long time. Yeah. But I'm like, this is the appearance that I'm getting for right now. Um, but it's that, and instead of just being like, you know what, here's a friend from high school that I'm getting to see, um, and that we're getting to stand there and chat, you know, and like catch up on each other's lives. Um, because like I'm so hyper fixated on like I'm all sweaty and I smell bad and I look terrible at the moment. Um, but yeah, we should not be like we miss out on a lot of things in life. We still we put ourselves in positions of being unhappy because so much is wrapped up in our appearance. Instead of saying, you know what, the Lord is the source of all joy. And regardless of what I look like, regardless of this situation, regardless of if I'm unhappy with this part of my body or that part of my body, like I can still be joyful and I can still, and I should interact with the people that God's put before me.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

And who knows? I could have like not just your your time running to that friend, um, but who knows of what time of seeing someone that we haven't seen in so long of was that a moment we could have shared the gospel?

SPEAKER_00 47:03

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 47:04

Yeah. God had us crossed paths for some reason. Yeah. Um, and so I just uh it just makes me sick thinking of times I've had those opportunities, but because I was so concerned with what they're thinking of me, of how I look, yeah, I just I didn't miss out on the encounter and yeah, and what God really had me there for. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:27

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

I think go ahead. Well, I was just gonna say it it definitely our bodies can definitely become an idol in so many different ways. And so I just encourage anyone who um even if you aren't sure if it is, like just sit back and think what what's taking your focus right now. Yeah. Like personally, I could say scrolling on social media. Why are you scrolling on social media? Are you is more of your thoughts when you see pictures or videos of people, oh I wish I had that. Oh, I hate that they have that, and I don't, like, how do they have this? And I like if there's any form of comparison, then take a step back and look. Maybe it is an idol, and you just didn't realize you don't have people in your circle that make you realize that. Yeah, just take a look at that and see. Um, and then talk to someone, like have someone around you that you can confide in. Be, I would say be careful with how many people you confide in. Um, because you can get so much information from so many different points, points of views that it can almost become overwhelming, and you're just like, that's it, I'm done. Yeah. Um, you can get a lot of hurtful information. Um where like I think of I know people that have made it known just by comments that they've said about themselves that they their body is a big focus of theirs. And so I wouldn't encourage talking to those people with their struggles um about body idolization, just because that can just encourage more of that idolization. Yeah, whether good or bad, we still need to make sure that people are leading us towards the sovereignty of the Lord.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah, yeah, I agree. For sure. That has to be, we have to surround ourselves with accountability that points us back to scripture. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, it all comes to that of deciding where is my worth found. You know, if I ask myself that question, like where do I get my sense of worth? And the answer is my outward appearance, then that's a problem. You know, if if it affects my mood, if it affects my emotions, because my sense of worth, my value doesn't come from my outward appearance at all. It actually doesn't come from me, it comes from who God says that I am. Um, and so we have to go back to scripture on this. And I think we'll probably echo that in everything that we come across as idols in our lives, because they come from a point of feeling like we're lacking or of feeling like we need to control and feeling like we need to manage the situation. Um, but it all comes back to what does God say about me and where do I put my sense of worth and value?

SPEAKER_01 50:28

Yes, like he says that we are made in his image. Yeah, we were created as good. Yeah, our bodies are good. Um, I mean, going way back into Genesis, yeah, where he creates man and woman and says it's good. It's good, yeah. So remember that, yeah, but don't have that shift to where I need to do A, B, C, D, all with Z to make sure I stay good. Right, exactly. Because if you're if you're not looking at what the Lord says and you're not diving into um more of that relationship with Him, you're going to lose that focus. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Yeah, at the end of the day, it all comes back to that. It comes back to God saying, I created you in my image, my creation is good. Um, I you know, I knew you before I knit you together. Um, I have chosen you. All of those things, that's where our worth, our value comes from. And when we remember that, when we remember that he alone is is holy, he alone is king, then we take ourselves off that stool. And we stop putting our appearance, our physical appearance, what people see or think about us, uh, on the stool to be the ruler of our lives.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

Um, because idols, that's our ultimately what we're saying is you get to rule everything else. Um, and so to combat that, we must put God back where he belongs as Lord, and then submit ourselves to Scripture, and not parts of it, but the whole of Scripture. Yeah. To say every bit of my life falls under the hole of Scripture because it's God's word, He's in charge, and this is law.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

So I feel like today was a really good conversation. I mean, um, I just want all of our listeners to know that what we talked about today, this wasn't us pointing fingers at you individually saying, like, you need to do these things or what you're doing is wrong. Like, that's not our goal because what we're talking about, we personally have dealt with. And so we're definitely talking to ourselves. Um, and so I just hope that you found some encouragement um in this. Um, I hope you find the uh just the desire to look and see what idols you have in your life. I know we just talked about body idolization, but there are multitude of others, and so I also just encourage finding those people to talk with. I mean, if you know us personally, we definitely would love to talk to you. Yeah. Even if you don't, I mean, our on our Instagram, we have our our personal Instagram handles, handles, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

There we go. Yeah, you can also always like drop a message in our DMs on the podcast page too. Yeah, shoot us a DM. That was definitely not the slide into DMs culture. No. I feel like that was that's not millennials, I don't think. I think that was whatever the next generation is. I don't know. Anyways, I digress. Right. Send us a message if you have a question. Yes. Or you need someone to talk to. That's the point. Yep. Sorry, we both just threw ourselves off the stream. Um just looked at each other. So, anyway, it hasn't a good conversation. We both are still like working through this on ourselves too. It's not, you know, it's not an it's not a one and done. Like, I've got it figured out and never struggle with it.

SPEAKER_01 54:11

No. I mean, I literally, guys, I literally told her before we started to do this podcast today. I was like, I don't want to do this. And what did I say? We're doing it. But I said, neither do I. Oh yeah. We're doing it even though it's still a struggle.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

We're right there with you. Yes. Every time my daughter, my four-year-old, wants to put on makeup, and I tell her, we don't wear makeup to make us beautiful. We make wear makeup to make us because we want to feel fancy. If it doesn't make us beautiful, make up makes us feel fancy. I have to tell myself that too. Like you don't actually need this makeup to feel beautiful, it just makes you feel fancy. Yes. So I'm still like telling myself that after all these years, too. Oh, yeah. So we continue on. So as always, we want to leave you with um scripture as we finish up this episode. And today's verse comes out of Romans chapter 12, verses 1 through 2. It says, I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. So, this has been another episode of the Living with Grace and Sass podcast, where real life meets best friend Banter. New episodes drop every other Wednesday, so be sure to like, follow, subscribe, and share on your favorite platform. Come join our next conversation, Bestie. Bye.