Finding Your People

Friendship can be one of the greatest gifts God gives us—but finding your people isn't always easy. In this episode, we're talking about the importance of godly friendship, biblical community, and the people who walk with us through every season of life.

We'll talk about why we were created for connection, what it looks like to cultivate meaningful friendships, the importance of having people who encourage and challenge us in our faith, and how to be the kind of friend who shows up with grace, honesty, and love.

Whether you're in a season of deep friendship, longing for community, navigating changing relationships, or wondering where your people are, this conversation is a reminder that friendship matters—and sometimes finding your people starts with being willing to show up and be a person for someone else.

Because life was never meant to be lived alone.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey guys, welcome back to the Living with Grace and Sass podcast. We are your co-hosts, Katie and Sierra. And you know, since Katie and I are besties, and this podcast has really been geared towards having those conversations with your bestie. You are one of ours, if you didn't know that already, um, we thought that we should talk about friendships today. I mean, we're both best friends, we have other best friends, like it's such a good topic. I felt like, you know, let's talk about. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

We should. Uh yeah, I definitely think that friendships, everybody has them. Hopefully. I hope everybody has friends. Hopefully, if not, they'll have some after they listen to this. Yes, hopefully. But no, I do feel like friendships are like a lifelong thing. You have friends all throughout your life. Um, and so we just want to talk about what that looks like, what that's looked like in our own lives growing up, what it looks like now. Uh, because I would definitely say adult friendships are different than friendships that I had growing up.

SPEAKER_02 1:06

What?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

Obviously. But yeah. Um, but yeah, so that's what we're talking about today. So ready go.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

And um, oh, how how old? No, that's not the quote. That's who's your longest like time-wise.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

What's your longest friendship? My longest friendship time-wise, I would say is well, I was gonna say it's my friend Kayla, who I've known since college. Um, but I do I I have a friend, his name is Devin. He um we went to school together since kindergarten. But I haven't seen him since his wedding. I don't know, that was probably eight years ago when they got married. Yeah, probably. Um, but I would still like consider him like a good friend. So that I care about. Um, we went to school since kindergarten. So timeline-wise, probably him, but like someone I keep in constant contact with is Kayla, and we've known each other since 2009. So how long is that? Uh 17 years. Which is is it really that long? Yeah, we're in 2022. Oh my gosh. So old yet? Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, so Kayla is probably my longest, like close, close friend. Um, and I can tell you the exact moment Kayla and I became friends. Who? And if I asked her, I guarantee you she would say the same exact thing. We were on a mission trip to New York City, that's how we met. There was like nine of us going, um, and we were like actually on the mission trip, but it was our I don't know if it was our last day, but one of the days we were on the subway and we were just like going from place to place and we were talking, and one of us said, All I want to do is be at home, like be a stay-at-home wife and mom and raise my kids. And the other one was like, Oh my gosh, me too. Oh my gosh. Instantly, December 21st of 2009. Yeah, we have our anniversary. Oh my gosh, because that was like that exact moment that we're like, we just became best friends. Like, what movie was that process? Did we just become friends? Yeah, for real. So that was Kayla, and we she lives, you know, not here, she lives four hours away from us. Um, but and we don't talk every day, we don't even talk every week, but we always just pick up like a right where we're at. We always like know when stuff's going on in the other person's life, and yeah, so yeah, that is like I can tell hilarious. I before we either one of us got married or had kids, we would go on like for anniversary trips with just two of us, like just go somewhere. Um, because we just couldn't remember the exact day that we became best friends.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Oh my gosh, yeah. The fact that you actually have the date is I love that. December 21st.

SPEAKER_01 4:10

Yeah. 2009. We're coming from 20 years. That's crazy. It's crazy that I'm even old enough to have a friend that I've had for seven years.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

Hey, this is how old Katie is. 2009, I was a freshman in high school.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Oh my gosh. I was 20 years old. I like to throw that at home. Yeah, I was 20 years old. That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

I always forget, like, there's so much of okay, not so much of an age gap between us, but it's five years, thank you. But still. It just I feel like we're like the same age. No, I agree with you. Like I just when you say you're in college in 2009, like, oh, we would have not been there would have been no way for us to have been friends in school. Because we wouldn't Yeah, I would have just got into high school and you had graduated. When'd you graduate? 2007. Oh yeah, so no. Never would have. No.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

Also, too, though, how long we've been friends since 2017. Yeah, January is when I started at the hospital. Yeah. So January of 2017. Yeah, I wanted to be friends with the girl with the poppin' red lipstick.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

And the funny thing is, is my mom for years beforehand because my mom knew your mom through the office for the longest time. And she knew you because you would come too. And she would always say, You need to meet uh Ginger's daughter. I think you'd be really great friends. And I at that point was like, I haven't a friends. Oh, I don't want anymore. I was very much that child. You tell me to do something of not doing it, so I was like, No, I'm not gonna do that. That's awkward. Yeah. It's weird, it's cringe, is what the kids say nowadays. But man, had I listened, we've been friends a lot longer.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

A lot longer. But we've still been friends for like almost ten years. Oh shoot, which is also crazy. That is that gum. Time really does fly. It does. Like, i I don't even know where it's gone. But it's almost ten years. That is insane. Yeah, it is. Oh my gosh. So who who and what how long is your like longest timeline friendship?

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Um, I would have to say my friend Cassie. Or she likes to be called Cassandra, but I like to irritate her, so I call it Cassie. We literally all call her Cassie. Now, in the beginning, she introduced herself as Cassandra, so you always say Cassandra, and I'm like, who's that? She's only Cassandra when she's in trouble with me. We love Cassie, but we do call her Cassie and not Cassandra. Everywhere she goes, she's like, I'm Cassandra, and I'm like, it's Cassie.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

If I say Cassandra, Nathan's like, Who are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Good.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Like Cassie. Like, oh yeah. Cassandra. Cassie, when you're listening, I'm sorry that we fell into Sierra's thing and called you Cassie.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

My plan has worked. No, but um, she actually uh we just this year have reached 20 years. It's crazy. Because um, and the only reason I don't know exact date, I wish I did, but the only reason I know it's been 20 years is because when we moved to Texas in May of 2006, um she was one of the first people that I had met. Yeah, that makes sense. And so 20 years of her putting up with me and my shenanigans. Bless that woman.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Bless her.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

She's getting double jewels in her chrome. Man, I wish she could be here. She has definitely seen a lot of different versions of me.

SPEAKER_01 8:06

That's interesting too, because I think through friendships throughout the years, and like they all have different versions of me.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Like the person that was friends with people in high school is not the person that they would get now.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Which is very interesting too. And I think that leads to the fact that you know, friendships are not always forever. I think that's like a duh thing, but it really is true, even as you get older, that sometimes some friendships are just for seasons and they're not for long term.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

And that's hard to to accept just because you're like, you're literally my favorite person. Like I want you in my life forever. Yeah. But I mean, I think of my friends in college, um, shout out to Ryan and JC, they really helped me get get through college. But no, they really um were we were always together, but now like I know like we still love each other, I still consider them friends, but we're definitely in different seasons of life. Um, and we've gone quite actually we've gone quite a while talking, but but I still know that if I were to call the right now, I'd catch up. Like, we could do that.

SPEAKER_01 9:21

Yeah, yeah. That's how my college friend Hannah, she was my roommate for several years, and you know, I still consider her like a very dear friend. Um, but it's like that we go longer periods of time without talking, but you know, like she had a baby last year, and so like I love that. I love seeing baby pictures, we just randomly comment on each other's stuff, yeah. Um, and when we do text, it's like we still love each other, it's just different, um, because life is just different, and I do think that's hard to accept sometimes. Uh, it doesn't negate the friendship, it doesn't like diminish it at all. Some of my favorite times and like memories in college are with Hannah. Um so but it's just different now, yeah. And that's okay, that's not a bad thing.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

No, um because you want that person to grow and to continue to evolve into the person the Lord wants them to be. Yeah, you should be supportive of that and not um burden them with feeling like they shouldn't change, like they have to stay this way. Yeah, exactly. You can't do anything different, we have to stay like this forever. Which no one stays like this forever. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Even in the last 10 years, you and I both have changed. Oh like we're not the same people today as best friends that we were in 2017 when we became friends. Um, and someone another friend had posted or shared something recently, and it was like that. Like, shout out to all the girls that have become that have stayed my friend through each version of me. Yeah. Um, and I love that because it is, it's like sometimes we have those friendships in life where it is going to be long term and you're gonna see all these different sides of me or like who I am now. Uh, because we all change, we all should change, we're better not be staying the same.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

No, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Um, you know, I growing up I went to a really small school, and so I had what I thought was a good group of friends. Um, there was a group of us that always did stuff together, but my senior year, it was like I've gonna I won't say any names, so I'm gonna rat a lot of people out. But um, you know, my friends did not party freshman, junior, sophomore, or junior year. They just waited until their senior year started partying. Um, and so I it was like they were making up for the lots of time. So I didn't do that, so I spent a lot of Friday nights at home alone um on or my senior year. I just was home a lot. I told my mom this recently. I remember going and we were all having a sleepover, and they all left and went to a party, and I legit stayed at the girls' house by myself because I didn't want to go to the sleepover because I had to get up and go to church the next morning. And I don't even know what time they came back, but I just stayed there at her house by myself, which is crazy. I don't know. But anyways, to my point on that, like I spent a lot of time by myself or with my parents my senior year, and I was so miserable, and my mom just kept always saying, like, you're gonna go to college, you're gonna find your people. Um, and I did, and it was like for the first time, I was like actually making friends with people because I wanted to, not because they were only the only people around me. Yes, so that was nice too. Like, I think as you grow as an adult, you get to make friends because you want to, not out of like necessity because I need people around me to survive.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

You know, I feel like that's kind of high school. Oh, yeah. I mean, my call my my college, my school wasn't as small as yours. What was your graduating class? 74. Oh, I think mine was like 68. Oh, you were even smaller than us. That's weird. I thought y'all were smaller, but anyways, um, but yeah, I think back of the people I consider like my best best friends. Cassie is one of those people. Um, I mean, we were in everything together. I had friends that were in band with me, but also were sports with me, or I had my friends that were sports that also were in the same few classes together. Like it's almost like it's a forced friendship just because this is basically all you have. Yeah, exactly. Especially when we didn't drive at the time, we couldn't go other places because it's all you had. But then um I will say caught freshman year of college, um I struggled with some of those friends just because we were going different paths and it was hard to understand that yes, they can we can go our separate ways, but still like still have that grounding friendship of with each other. Um and eventually our friendship just fizzled out. And I mean I wish them well. I haven't talked to most of them in a while. Yeah. Um, but but yeah, when you're in college, you like you get to pick your people because there's coming from our small schools, yeah. This is a giant fish take. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

For sure. Yeah, exactly. And again, yeah, like I don't I still wish all those people well. And like when we graduated, we're all good. Like, there's no animosity, there's no hard feelings, like they were my people at that season of life, you know. Um, there's a couple of girls, like one of them I went to our baby shower last year. One of them we keep in touch on occasion, you know. Um, my friend Devin, who I already said I went to his wedding, and I remember like when I went off to college, he and I would still talk um on occasion, and then Shane, Shane, Devin's cousin, who I'm friends with, he's the one I saw at the gas station, you know, a few months ago. And that was like garbage. And I was like, of course I would see someone from my school right now. But you know, so I when I see those people, I still wish them well. Um and we can still chat and have a conversation. But it was like going to college was the first time that I've I felt like, oh, I actually get to pick who I'm around and what I'm doing, you know, what these friendships look like. I actually get to pick that. Yeah. Um, and it can actually be based on more common interest than sometimes high school wise. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Um, how did your transition from college into basically being a full-grown adult um with those friendships? How did that look in that transition phase?

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Yeah, so I feel like in college, I would say I'm like counting them in my head right now. Um, I had two really good friends from undergrad, which one I'll kind of talk about in a minute because her and I went through a really rocky path patch for a period of time. Um, but two really good friends in col like undergrad. And then I met Kayla right at the end of undergrad. Um, and then I had two really good friends in PT school, one I haven't talked to since PT school, one that I still talk to on a regular basis. Um so when I graduated from PT school, I would say that I had probably two or three really solid friendships, but none of them lived here. So that was the other thing because I was in Oklahoma, so I moved back to Texas. Um, and Hannah had already moved back to Texas. Kayla was living in Norman, my friend Renee was living in Yukon, Oklahoma. So I really was moving back to no one um and going to a job that was local, but that I didn't know anybody, and so it was hard at first, but I will say I feel like my work people kind of became my friends at that moment and that point. Um, but I did not develop really close friendships here as an adult until maybe I already married. Oh really? Well, I guess you.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Well, but it was around kind of the same time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Um, so at work, whenever I started working, I I fell in love with those people. I love those people dearly. Carolyn and Melanie, I would say are two of my very best friends from that job. Um, and I still even just sitting here cackling over moments that the three of us had in the office at work that I cannot share on a podcast. Um but so like those people are still super, I still care about them deeply. Melanie and I still talk. Um, you know, and her and I went to, when we left the hospital, we went to another job together. But it really took work for those college friendships to still be, to still be there. Because now we had built this great foundation of friendship, but then there was so much distance between us that it really did, we had to kind of fight to keep those, um, and just be really intentional about communicating with each other. So those three, Kayla, Hannah, and Renee, I still, you know, care about all three of them still deeply consider them close friends, good friends. Hannah and Renee, I don't talk to as much as Kayla, but you know, I still keep up with them all these years later, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

So that's funny all these years later. It feels like it's been a long time. I love Melody, she's so funny. She's hilarious. I miss work.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I'm I do. I often think about that office with her and Carolyn and Heidi and Laura. Oh my gosh. And we just have some very funny times. I was telling someone this story the other day about stepping on a spider, but it was too big, so no one would step on it. So we just threw a trash can on top of it and like crunched it with the trash can. Ew. It was big, okay? Don't look at me like that. It was a big spider, and I was not about to crunch it underneath my foot. I encrunched it. And heard it crunch, and then we just slid the trash can back across the floor. Did you leave it there? Yeah, I don't know how long we left it there, but we did.

unknown 19:25

Ew. Ew.

SPEAKER_01 19:28

And there was also an incident of um a Facebook post getting liked from like, I don't know, four or five years prior to while we were deep scrolling. And in the combination of me handing the phone to Melanie and Melanie handing it to Carolyn and Carolyn handing it back to me. And when I saw it, I was like, oh my gosh, it says you liked that picture. And we all freaked out, and I will never remember. I will never forget that day.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Show me a friend group that has not had that exact time.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Because we all screamed and it was just like, oh my gosh. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Yeah. We were just doing some quality research. Yeah, that's what we were doing. And then a photo gets oh traumatizing. Well, there was a times where we would do um the dance classes on our was there a lunch break that we would do it.

SPEAKER_01 20:22

It was fun fact that was the first time Nathan ever texted me. We were doing those. Really? Yeah. Yep. I don't remember that. He'd gotten my number, and then we were doing that workout at lunch, and he texted me for the first time. So I still swear he had a leather jacket. No. I swear he had. I've never seen him in a leather jacket. We would be doing those dance classes, like those dance fitness videos, and Sierra would stand in front of us. And Melanie, I would stand behind her, so she couldn't see how bad we were at it. But then you have to turn. And then she would see us. So good time. All different seasons of friendship in life. Oh yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

Yes. We really have. I can't believe it's been almost ten years, but like just the growth. Yeah. But I think that also comes with that security in friendships. Yeah. Um, and I feel like that's how friendships can stand the oh, I just lost the phrase. The something of time. The test of time? Test of time. There we go. I don't know what I wanted to say. That wasn't it. The test of time. This is where your friends come in handy. Yeah, exactly. They help you. They help you out. But um just having that that sense of security within those friendships and knowing that I can be my 100% true self around you and feel, I guess I don't want to say accepted, but like just feel understood and not judged. Yeah, for sure. Like never having that sense. I mean we always joke, don't judge me. Yeah. And we judge each other, but like No, I agree. But we're not actually. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

But um I think back to past friendships where when I look at it now, it was very kind of one-sided type friendships. Um and it took a lot of growth and realization of it's okay to kind of and I because if you haven't figured it out yet, I struggle with that vulnerability. But once when I get that security and knowing that I can be vulnerable with this person, like those have been my longest lasting friendships, and I'm not even talking like truly time-wise. Like, yes, I've known Cassie as my friend for the longest of 20 years, but just in general, my friendships carry over longer when I trust in them and they trust in me. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

I yeah, I definitely think that having that vulnerability and that like security with each other takes a friendship to a whole different level that maybe you don't have in high school because you're a high schooler, you're a teenager. You're still figuring yourself out. Yeah, you're still trying to figure yourself out. You don't know how to be vulnerable with anybody. Like you're trying to put on this almost like a mask at times to just like who am I? Um, and so maybe that's one of the reasons that those friendships tend to not be like longer lasting in life. Sometimes they are, obviously, with you and Cassie. My mom has a group of friends and they've been friends from since high school. They still go on trips together. Um, but for the most part, I would say that those friendships tend to change quite a bit because you're not nearly as vulnerable as a high school girl as I hope you are as a 20 or 30 year old.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

That vulnerability, I think, definitely comes as you get older and as you become more confident in yourself. Yeah. Like the more confident I've become in myself, the more willing I am to be vulnerable in friendships. Um, also just knowing, like, hey, this person actually does care about me. They're not going anywhere, they're still gonna stick around, they're still here. Um, you know, that also allows you to be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 24:30

I think and it also allows you to be in a sense corrected. Like if I feel like I'm kind of wandering off course of um my focus on eternal life in the kingdom. Yeah. Um having those friendships also allows me to listen to that kind of correction. And it's not even a correction of like a parent correcting me. Like it's not you're never like pointing fingers or anything, but it's very much, hey, I've noticed I've noticed this about you, like that you're you've been doing this, and I know that's not aligning with the goals that you want, the goals that I want for you. Yeah. And so it definitely allows me to be more positively responsive toward those um convictions that go ahead Oh, I was just gonna say, do you think that you can have like do you think you can really have strong friendships if there's not a level of that? No. Why? Because if I can't have those um vulner it's it's a very big sense of vulnerability um conversation with you when I notice something um about you, then I don't feel like we have the depth of a friendship. I feel like um I was taught this years ago about how you have these kind of rings, like think of like your small circle as like your close friendships, like the ones that you have that depth with. Yeah. And then that outer ring, you have like people you can still be around more often, but you don't really have a lot of those deep conversations. You don't have a lot of that I know if I'm in trouble, I can call you. Right. Um, so you have those friends, and then on the outside you have acquaintances. Yeah. People that obviously don't align with my beliefs, but I mean I still love them. I'm not gonna, oh, we don't agree on things. I'm chewing you away. Yeah, exactly. But I obviously know I can't, um, there's no form of death. It's just very superficial, um, very much those, hey, how are you? I'm good, I'm good, kind of conversations. Yeah. Um, so no, if I don't feel like that I can have that deep correcting conversation with you, um, then I don't I wholeheartedly don't consider those strong friendships, in my opinion. I mean, I joke about often about how there's only a short list of people who can actually correct me that I will listen to. Um so to me, that is my inner circle of friends. And um, and then the group outside of it, I feel like there's opportunity for it. Yeah. But if I'm the one that's needing to have that conversation, I feel like there's definitely more prayer and prep that I would need before having it. I feel like I can't just be like, hey, can we go talk for a minute?

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Like I need it to be kind of thought out and planned because I don't feel like we have that deeper understanding of each other, so I don't want you to ever feel like I'm attacking you, I'm looking down on you, right? Kind of um conversation.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Yeah, and I think to that point too, it would be really easy, and I think it happens a lot in today's world of um like only surrounding yourself with like-minded people, people that are like thinking exactly like you on everything. But when you say like you have that cool that really small inner circle of people, and you only have a few people that can correct you. The clarity here is that those people are correcting you from a biblical standpoint, not just based on their own opinions, yes, not telling you what you want to hear. Like, if there's correction coming, it's like, hey, this isn't lining up biblically, um, and this is why there's correction, this is why we're having this conversation. Because I think we can often just like surround ourselves with quote unquote quote unquote friends that just think like we do, yeah, and there's no level of like actual biblical accountability, biblical vulnerability.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

No, exactly. And ultimately, I mean, we all um we all are sinful, and we all make mistakes, we all um find ourselves walking down like different paths, and it takes having those true biblical friendships around like surrounding you to be able to know, okay, if they see it, then it's it's evident that I'm not doing right, I'm not walking down the right path. Yeah, and I trust those as my friends, so I'm trusting that what they're saying to me is not to make me feel good or even to make me feel bad. Right. It's hey, I see you, I love you, but also this is going to this is leading you down the wrong path to help. Yeah, basically. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, and I think that's where um, you know, earlier I said that really didn't have like really strong adult friendships until after Nathan and I had gotten married. And as I think about it, those friendships have come from um community, from our community group, that small group of people that you know that group started back in, I guess, 2017, 2018, 2018, probably. Um, and that's really where my deep, my deep biblical friendships have come from, is a small group of people that started doing Bible study in life together through church, and then it has grown into like these much deeper friendships that I didn't have before. And when I mentioned earlier uh the friend from undergrad, for the first time ever in my life, she was that friend that I was like, wow, this is what like a spiritual friendship should look like because we were definitely both spurring each other on towards that. That was our common interest, like, definitely sisters in the Lord, and like encouraging each other and holding each other accountable. And the riff came um from me addressing something that I saw or felt like was not a path that she should go down. But in hindsight, I might I'm sure as an 18-year-old, 19-year-old, I did not do it with the most tact that I should have. Um, and I think she was receptive to it, but just for her own sake, and just like a lot happened, and there just a rift happened, and we just like cut ties. We were not friends for a season. Um, no, the Lord was very gracious towards the end of college to kind of restore that um and to to restore that friendship. We don't talk as often, but we're I mean, we're friends on Facebook now. Like we I really do care about her. She's someone that I could like, I'm sure if we saw each other, we could sit and talk for hours about life. And that closeness would be there. But it was crushing for me at the time because for the first time ever in my life, I was like, oh, I really have this really close biblical friendship, but it was like that accountability, that like correction was the thing that drove the wedge in between us, and I am not saying that I did it right, so like everybody hear me on that. I'm not saying it was her fault because she didn't take it right. Yeah, I'm saying I probably didn't do it right. Was there probably problems on both of our ends? Yes, we were 19-year-old girls um trying to figure out life, but in hindsight, it has given me great insight on how do we walk graciously even in the correction of friends and even in the like being willing to take it myself because I had to step back at some point and say, you know, if she if the rules were reversed, if she was saying these things to me, like would I be mad? Would I be upset? Yeah, probably. So, like also being willing. I mean, that's a huge part of friendship. Being willing to say the hard things, but also being willing to take the hard things too, and that's not always easy. No, but again, I think it grows us as people, it grows us as believers, it grows us as friends. Um, like you said, I there's a small circle that can like pretty easily do that in my life. Um, there's some others that probably could as well. It just might take a little bit more work to do that.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

So it's funny you talk about like kind of that friendship, y'all going your separate ways, but then coming back, um, even if it does look different. Yeah. Um, which in my opinion is okay. Um, because I actually a very good friend of mine from high school in early college, uh, we went to different colleges, but we were still very close. Um she her and I like had a huge falling out. And it actually had been like I just talked to her, it was maybe 10-ish years that we went no contact, like even to the point where like not even following on like Instagram, like, because you know that's a big thing. Yeah, yeah. But um, she just for some reason just kept popping in my head. Like occasionally I'll have these memories. I'm like, oh, she's the one that I have the memory with, she's the one I want to talk to. But I just I never I will be honest, I never sat down my pride to go to her and be like, look, I'm sorry. Actually, no, because we just reconnected, yeah, and I'm so grateful that we did. Yeah. Because when we were like, what happened? I cannot physically tell you exactly what the falling out was. Yeah. I do, I will say that on my end, alcohol was involved. So I don't even know exactly, but I'm not gonna say like my sugar coat in any way. Right. Um but now going forward, I mean, I understand that it won't be the way it was in high school. Right. But I'm happy to have that friend back. Exactly. Yeah. Um, because I've actually missed her. Yeah, exactly. She was more of my sporty friend. Yeah. We'd go work out together, we played all kinds of sports together, um, and to have not had that in my early post-college adult life, uh, I missed it. Yeah, no, I missed it and I missed her. And so we also, when it comes to those friendships, need to be able to, especially if we have arguments, disagreements, whatever the case may be, we need to know that we need to sit down our pride and listen. Yeah. But it also comes with understanding the type of person you are. Because I think, and there's I've not done any research, so I don't know if there's been any tests. I'm just this is my opinion from what I've learned from me. My I am the source. So, but there's two types of people when it comes to confrontation. There's the the issue happened, let's talk about it right here, right now. Um, and then there's the person the issue happened. I'm very much in my emotions. I need 24, 48 hours, however long it needs to be, I need time to cool down. Yeah. And then we can talk. Yeah. Um, and oddly enough, most of my friends in life have been the the issue happened, let's talk. Oh, that's me.

SPEAKER_01 36:47

Because if I wait 24 or 48 hours, I'm just gonna stew and dwell and like make myself sick over it for the next however long until we can actually talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 36:56

And I'm very much the I need to calm down because I'm so mad that I'm not gonna see, I'm so mad and irrational that I'm not gonna see your side of it. So nothing's gonna get resolved, and I fear that my mouth will cause it. Yeah. Um, I didn't know that about myself, and it's come it's been a long, a long progress of controlling that type of anger within me, but then to also understand, okay, what type of friends, what type of friend do I have in this friendship? Right, yeah. Are you the we have this problem we need to talk? Because then that also taught me to okay, I understand that we need to talk about this, but I need you to give me time. Yeah, communicating that as well is part of that growth as humans. I mean, not just with friends, yeah, with your coworkers, with your uh spouse, with your whatever, with anybody, yeah. Being able to have that communication of look, we need to talk about this, but you may want to right now, but I can't. But I can't right now, yeah. And so, like, I think that also, and you can correct me on this from the person that wants to talk about it right this instant of okay, I know they want to and we will. Do you feel like that if they communicated that with you, that it kind of helps you in that festering of the situation?

SPEAKER_01 38:15

Yeah, I do. I do think that that helps because Nathan and I are the opposite in like our in our relationship. Like, I'm the I want to talk about no. He's like the I need a minute to calm down person. Um, but now that we both know that about each other, then we just communicate that of like I'm like, hey, we need to talk. And he's like, Yes, but you're gonna have to give me a minute. Um, and that does help because I think for me it adds like like that security of like, okay, we know there's an issue, we know it's gonna be addressed, like no nothing big's gonna blow up in the you know, however long we wait, the 20 minutes, yeah, whatever it is. Um, you know, it helps to like have that security of like knowing, okay, this person cares about me enough that they are going to address this, but I also care about them enough that I'm gonna give them X amount of time. Yeah. So I do think it comes from that like closeness of relationship too, and knowing like who you're dealing with, um, who you're dealing with, who your friend is, but you know what I'm saying? Yeah, it it does, it comes from like the closeness of that relationship again to say like, hey, I value you, and so like we are going to address this with some give and take for both of us, and that's really what friendship should be. I mean, exactly. It is not all about one person at all, it definitely is like a give and take.

SPEAKER_02 39:39

And you know, the Bible talks a lot about um the relationship within a marriage um and that intimacy, and I told you this earlier just about how the world has taken that word intimacy and made it only sexual. Um but that's actually not the case. Yes, there is sexual intimacy within a marriage, right, but there's an emotional intimacy within friendships. Um and that vulnerability comes with that intimacy, that um sense of security, that um willing to basically not put on that mask, right? Um and so it's really it's uncomfortable in the beginning with friendships, just because you're both kind of figuring each other out. Yeah. Um but once when you kind of get past those um certain levels of friendships, like you just take a breath. Like you just know that this person knows who I am and loves who I am, even in the moments that I don't love myself. Yeah. And that's been um something personally that I struggle with of the insecurity within myself of this sounds so silly saying out loud. But there are times where I kind of get into my you know my moods.

SPEAKER_01 41:15

Um I mean I'm being serious, but I'm just giving you more time.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Oh yeah. But of just I will question why do these people want to be my friend? And um it just I guess it I don't know what it says on. We're not gonna dive deep into that. I don't know. But knowing that I still have that security and that friendship, even if I'm having my kind of hide in a corner moment, yeah is what I'm gonna call it. Um it kind of helps me stay grounded. Oh, for sure. I guess you would say it kind of helps me not want to wholeheartedly act and go the separate way. I don't want to it helps me not separate from the past. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Yeah. And well, I think that's what you said. It's like that security and almost like you can take a breath. Um, because you don't feel like you're having to earn your seat at the table. You don't feel like you're having to earn your place in the room. Um you're like, oh, I can actually be here, uh, all of me in every way that I am without having to without feeling like I have to be on, which is so just refreshing in friendships. Because I told you and another really good friend the other not that long ago, a couple months probably. Um, and I think about when you like describe the circles of like that really close inner circle, and then they kind of go out from there. And I think that sometimes in ministry, when you're like a leader in ministry, you often feel like you have to be on all the time.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Uh, because I can't like I just sometimes feel like I have to be on, and so there's a handful of people that I don't feel like I have to be on with, and those are for sure my closest friendships. I feel like I can take a breath and relax and just be um without like them thinking, oh well, she's a Bible study teacher, you know. And that's not to say that it's like I'm going off the rails and doing crazy things, it's just like I just feel like I can relax. And I feel like we should all have friendships like that, and it doesn't happen with everybody. People that I consider friends, they're not all in that like tiny circle of friends.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 43:41

There's often it sounds bad. There's often a a circle inside a circle, a group within a group, and it's okay. Yes, absolutely. Because I also think sometimes when you get a big group of women, a big group of friends, mm-hmm. Everybody feels like everybody has to be together all the time. Or everybody has to be, you know, a whole group or nothing, but that's actually not true. Uh, and even biblically, that's not true. Like, we see Jesus have 12 disciples, but then he also had a few of those 12 that he was much closer to that he takes into smaller groups with him. Um, and it's not bad, it doesn't negate the whole big group of friends. Like, we have a fantastic group of women around us, one whose praises I will always sing, women who I am always cheering for. But there it's okay for there to be smaller groups within that because you can't really be super vulnerable with 12, 14, 16 people. You can be with two, three, or four.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Absolutely. And the reason it would not be okay is if the group within the group inside the group kind of start to seclude themselves. For sure. For sure. But I am grateful that we are in a group that is very welcoming, but then also understanding that yes, we all would love to always be together, but we all live such different lives. Most of us have children, um, most of us have spouses, like we all just live so such different lives that it's hard, but when we get together, yeah, it is wonderful. Like we just got together with a good chunk of them. Yeah, wasn't everybody but a good chunk of them? And just the belly laughs. I miss belly laughs. I feel like we've all just been so busy that we haven't had time this summer, just because life just life, yeah. Um, and just to have those belly laughs with my friends last night, just it was wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 45:39

I agree, it was so much fun. And I, you know, we always take that trip in October every year. And I just think about that group too and how it's grown in the last. I mean, I think this is our fourth year coming up. Yeah. Um, so it's grown, it's different, it looks different, but the friendships have also look different because I love going and sitting back and just watching because the people that you think might kind of be a smaller group within the group, yeah, actually, those are like branching out and there's different smaller groups, and it's because people have been vul vulnerable with each other, they've shown up for each other throughout the year, you know, it's doing life together, and we often say that that it's not um isolated to church, it's not isolated to whatever our common interest is, you know, it is doing life together on a regular basis, and that may not always be seeing each other on a regular basis, like you just said, like we've not all gotten together, probably. I mean, I don't know. Might be like Christmas party in December. Yeah. Um, that's probably the last time the biggest chunk of us were together. Um, but just like doing life throughout the year on a normal day, you know, it's sending a text, it's doing whatever, it's being it's saying like, hey, I'm really struggling with this, or hey, did you guys know this? Whatever. Um, and not feeling like you're isolated to only share things with the whole group or only do things with the whole group. It's okay to to have those like kind of different times.

SPEAKER_02 47:11

Um no, exactly. And um honestly I'll say that like my heart goes out to those that as they're listening to this may not feel like they have that um sense of security within friendships, um, or even that um community um as a whole, and so uh I know it's a lot easier said than done, but one of my encouragements is is to step out of your comfort zone. Yeah. Um because I mean, this is probably a quote on you would find on Pinterest, but nothing changes with our comfort, yeah. Um exactly, and so you have to be willing to put yourself out there and um find that find that mom in the sports group with your kids to go and talk with. Like all friendships start with uh, hi, how are you? Yeah, exactly. I mean, um or go sit by someone that looks like they're sitting alone at church and just is anyone sitting there? No, great, and then just start light casual conversation. Yeah, um, you're not understanding you're not gonna get that deep intimate friendship within the first greet of somebody is I mean key. But um, but also if you are part of a church community, go to the events that your church hosts. Um I talk about our women's conference of like I love that we have that, and I love that the new um way y'all have thought about hosting those is having those breakout sessions and kind of forcing different people to go to different ones where like as women we tend to gravitate. Oh, this friend's going to this, I'm going to this because she's in that. Right. But no, this allows us to go without our friends into a smaller group where you can get a little bit more of that intimate conversation to see, oh, this person I would have never thought would be uh what was one of ours? Um, will be needing some more help with studying the Bible. I thought she had it all together, she's so smart, but no, here she is. Yeah. So then that should open up the conversation of what is your Bible study studying look like? Can we get together? Can you show me some of your tips? Because I'm fresh into reading the Bible ever. Like those kind of things. Um, just be willing to put yourself out there as uncomfortable as it is, you'll be amazed with just how many conversations you'll easily be able to have and how easier it gets. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Yeah. And you know, I'm a firm believer that like it takes work. If you if like I would say nine and a half times out of ten, like a friendship is not going to just fall into your lap. It takes like probably both people moving. It takes you being willing to go and to be involved in stuff. Because like if you're not willing to put yourself out there in any way, um, like you're probably not going to have strong friendships. You've got to be able to be vulnerable, put yourself out there, try new situations. Um, and it can be scary, it can be really uncomfortable. Um, but it can also be really worth it and really rewarding to go and do that.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

You know, this makes me think of one of our friends who actually there's two friends from Broken Bow, um, where most of us had known each other going into Broken Bow. And I think of the two friends, three actually, the three friends that only knew one, maybe two other people within our group, yeah, who I know were very nervous about coming into Broken Bow because you're coming into a weekend full of women you don't know. Right. That can be very nerve-wracking. Right. But and it feels like they all know each other really well. Yeah, so you feel like you're already an outsider. Yeah, exactly. But now, I mean, talking with them, they always talk about how like these are my friends now. Had I not taken that opportunity, I would not have these friendships. Yeah, exactly. And so now I'm not saying if you just meet these people, you're just jump in, go stay all weekend. Right, exactly. That we're not talking maybe that that level of extreme if you feel super uncomfortable. I get it. But like just if you know one person and they invited you to, I don't know, a birthday party. Yeah. And you know no one else. Yeah. Go.

SPEAKER_01 51:46

Yeah, exactly. Just just go and try. Yeah, make yourself a little bit vulnerable. Yeah. If the leader of the conference splits you up with your best friend and makes you go to a different class because she did that intentionally, it's okay. It's for a point. It's not because she wants to be mean. Yes. It's because she really believes that you can develop really great friendships and relationships in a wide range of the local community. Yep. And sometimes we do that best when our best friend's not sitting in the room with us.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

It's hard. It is. It's hard, but looking back, I'm just so grateful. Even through high school and college, I'm just grateful for the friendships I had in those seasons. But I am also just extremely grateful for the friendships I have now because I wholeheartedly know we all have the ultimate goal of being in the kingdom together. And and to know that I'm surrounding myself with like-minded people who will help me get there. Um it's just it's very it's just very calming. Like I can just relax in that fact. Yeah. And knowing that they're not gonna steer me wrong.

SPEAKER_01 53:06

Right. And it's like what I want for everybody. Absolutely. I want every woman to be like, yeah, I have a group of friends like that. One, two, three, five, ten, I don't know. Like to have a group of friends, a group of women to come alongside you in life and be like, hey, this is like what's going on, this is what I want to do, you know, whatever. Yeah. Quality over quantity. Yeah, for sure. And I always think like you know that they're your people whenever you have something happen in life that you want to tell them before you tell anybody else. And like we, Nathan and I have said that. We've had several things that I'm like, when when this happened, the people our people weren't, you know, blood-related people. They weren't, you know, people I've known for 30 years. Like it was our group. It's our people, it's our community group, it's the group of ladies within that friendship, those friendships that you're like, those are the people I want to tell. And I want everybody to have that because it's like I don't know how you do life without it.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

No, I read a quote actually. Um, I wish I could tell you the name of the book. I just lost it. Um if I think of it, I'll put it in the comments. But um, I read a quote that um basically, and I'm not gonna quote it exactly, but you can live, and this is speaking from a single person, you can live a joyful life without marriage, but you cannot live a joyful life without friendships. Yeah, I I believe that 1000%. And that like really hit me in the face personally, yeah, but it is so true.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Yeah, a thousand percent.

SPEAKER_02 54:45

We are not meant for isolation, no, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

We are meant to have community and to have people around us that come alongside of us and and walk through the highs and walk through the lows together. Yep, like we've walked through highs and lows in the last 10 years in each other's lives. Uh, and I mean we just keep doing that, you know? We just keep doing it because that's community, that's friendship. So we're definitely not done with the friendship conversation. Like, I feel like we're gonna talk about this a lot. Um yeah, tune in for season two. Yeah, because there's always more, you know, conversation about friends and how do we how are we good friends? What does that look like biblically, you know, things like that. So we'll definitely keep talking about it. But uh if you have a question on friendship or any other question, we would love to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:35

Uh you can go to the link in our bio on our Instagram page, and there's a link to fill out a form to drop your questions. We'd love to answer them either on our socials or in another episode of the podcast. Absolutely. And we're pretty much opening it up to anything, right?

SPEAKER_02 55:49

Yeah, we want to hear from you all about being vulnerable.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Come on, Bessie, talk to us. Let's have a conversation. Yeah, so definitely throw your your question or your comment into the conversation and we'll address it. Absolutely. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:05

Well, I hope this was a very encouraging episode for you, and I hope you do have that friendship um and community in your life. But if not, I hope that this also just encourages you just to be uncomfortable and step out and see where the Lord takes you. For sure. Your best friend could literally be walking right past you right now, and you don't know yet because you haven't said hi. Go say hi. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

So, as always, uh definitely want to end it with a quote or um not a quote, but a verse from scripture. It says, it's out of Ecclesiastes chapter four, verse nine through ten. It says, Two are better than one because they have a good reward for their toil, for if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls, and has not another to lift him up. Do you know what that made me think of? What obviously I love this verse, and I think it's so important. Like, obviously, we need friends to lift us up when we fall. But what I thought about actually was our friend whose name I will not name, but shoot everyone will know who I'm talking about, who slipped and fell out of the hot tub the first year we went to Broken Boat, and our other friend took a video of it. And did we help her up? Yes, we did, but after we all laughed so hard. So have a friend around you to help you up when you leave when you fall. Don't be offended if they laugh at you first. Because you know you would laugh at me when they were first. She was fine. Yeah, she was laughing too. We did help her up after we laughed at her falling out of the hot tub. So that's that is what came into my mind. So find your friends like that. Oh, good nice. This has been another episode of the Living with Grace and Seth podcast where real life meets best friend banter. New episodes drop every other Wednesday, so be sure to like, follow, subscribe, and share on your favorite platform. Come join our next conversation, Bestie.

unknown 58:08

Bye.