The County Line Podcast: Ep. 10

Congressman Kevin Hern joins Tulsa County Commissioner Kelly Dunkerley for a special edition of The County Line Podcast to discuss the latest developments in Washington and how federal decisions impact communities here in Tulsa County. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

You're listening to the County Line Podcast, production of the Tulsa County Board of County Commissioners. Hello, everybody. Kelly Dunker, Lee with the County Line, County Commissioner District 3. We have a special edition today. We got our guest is Congressman Kevin Hearn, District 1 Congressman, been the Congressman since 2018. So your service is well known to our area, but I think this might be the first time you're at the county line.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Is that that at this county line? I've been on the county line, but this is the first time I've been at this county line, which is a pretty impressive thing you got going on here.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Well, we're proud of this studio. Ethan Hutchins is our is our new PIO. He's been with us for about a year, and he came into the county with uh some fresh ideas. And one of the biggest things as we were talking before we started, we want we started this forum so people could understand local government, uh, local level, county level. We've had municipal people in here, state people, but it's such an honor to have somebody from our federal delegation too, because there's a lot of news that you can bring to us, share with our our audience, and then I know there's a couple of things that we've talked worked on together as well as the other county commissioners, we can get into those too as well. But uh welcome to the county line. And you know, I just want to open up the forum because you're fresh in from Washington, and there's always a the story's not quite the same back here as it is there, and there's always something new to learn. So can you share with us a little bit about what the situation is in our nation's capital?

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, it's uh it's good being in the House right now. You know, uh many people have heard over the years, uh, if you're in the House representatives, the the battle cry was always, we're tired of the U.S. Senate jamming the House, leaving stuff and going, you know, doing stuff and going home, and it's saying it's it's dumping in our lap. And you know, I would say under leadership of Speaker Mike Johnson, over the last uh you know, 12 to 18 months, we've been doing the reverse of that. We've been passing bills out of the House with the slimmest of margins, uh, probably the slimmest margin of uh majority, I think in over 150 years, with like any sometimes literally only one vote in the House representatives and a majority. In the House, a simple majority rules. And so we've passed bills like the Save America Act now three times, sent it to the Senate. We've passed funding bills to fund the government, which the Senate still hasn't taken up. And, you know, September 30th is the end of our fiscal year, and we're doing everything in the House of Representatives as Republicans to prevent the government from shutting down. And uh I know the Senate is looking at what they're going to do to make sure that doesn't happen, so I hope uh I hope they do their job.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Well, you know, a shutdown really doesn't benefit anybody in our country, and we try to stay focused on policy here, but you know, that's a big deal when the government shuts down. It doesn't help anybody who is maybe on the far left or the far right or in the middle. It's just not good business for our country.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I would I would argue that it really hurts the job that you do, and and certainly our state folks when it comes to highways as an example, because you're relying on state fund or federal funding to for matches and and you know your contractors want to get paid, and this is very uh publicly known when the government shuts down. And so uh, you know, people are concerned about their payments and how they're going to do the start and stop of their workers. And so uh you're you're exactly right. It has never worked for Democrat or Republican to shut down the government because the very people that shut down the government are the same ones that have to open it back up. So let's just all come together like uh professionals and make sure that we we keep the government funded and people keep getting paid.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

You know, budgetary matters affect us all, and I know you've worked tirelessly for years on budget matters. You know, I've been to the Republican study group that you chaired, trying to steer Congress to uh, you know, a reasonable ground to be fiscally uh conservative, responsible, but keep the doors opening and business running. And so tell us a little bit about your you know, your your tenure as the chair of that committee, because that was an important post.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

It was. You know, it's a two-year uh opportunity that you get selected by your peers, so all the Republicans in the House representatives. So at that time, 223. Uh it's the largest uh conservative caucus, uh Republican caucus in Congress, and has been for decades. Started about 50 years ago. In fact, during my tenure, which now was three years ago, uh we celebrate our 50th birthday or anniversary, however you want to look at it. But I'm the only member of Congress that signed four balanced budgets in a row, uh, two years prior to my chair as the budget chairman, and then two years during my my tenure as chair. Uh, but it's not getting easier. And I uh I tell you, the American people wonder why the federal government doesn't do what you all have to do as commissioners and as local officials, state officials, balance your budget. You can't spend money you don't have. And so you have to be very smart and you have to sometimes disappoint people that those projects can't get done this year and this this fiscal uh period. But, you know, in the federal government it's very frustrating. And I've been a huge advocate of making sure that we take care of the people that deserve to be taken care of, that have that have fallen on rough times. And I I I grew up extraordinarily poor over in the Ozark Mountains of Arkansas and appreciated, you know, people helping my mother uh take care of five kids. And and you see it all the time. You're working out in the county and and you're working in in areas of the city, quite frankly, that are of the county that you see people that need help. And you know, it it's uh one of the things you know you and I were talking about before we went on there was this delineation between the federal, the state, the local, the city, how those governments all interact with one another. And it's not just this clear, bright line. Uh, you know, sometimes it kind of bleeds over to one way or the other. And I think having great work and relationships with you and the other two county commissioners with our office is important, and certainly with our city officials and state officials.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

So true. Relationships are key. And um I think my fellow county commissioners would definitely agree with you that you know the our our um our work's never done, explaining what we're doing, how we're doing it, being accountable to the people. And I know that happens as a member of Congress too. You're constantly uh explaining things to people and making sure they understand why we're doing what we're doing and how we can make things better. And you know, the great examples, you know, at all levels we're trying to work with each other, municipal, local, state, federal, and I know you've been involved in some very important projects um locally here that took years, even decades. And let's talk a little bit about the levy, because I remember seeing photos of you with the flood, and I think it was 19, and uh the the the danger that many of our citizens were under and how we've made big strides trying to correct that and make things better.

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah, you know, I'd just been in office about six months when May of 2019 happened, and uh, you know, one of the Karen Keith, former county commissioners, she and I uh we went over to town and country area and place that had flooded once before in 1986 and was pretty devastating then. Uh, but to see what happened uh at that time in 2019 was in this modern day, really put the stamp on, you know, what the late Senator Inhoff and many others had worked on prior to me coming into office about taking care of our levees, protecting some 10,000 citizens on the west side of the city and Sand Springs area. And then, you know, going and touring the pump stations and and seeing, you know, whiskey bottles literally as the ballast for the pumps and the floats, it was really wild to see those, you know, technology and and mechanical uh parts that were from the 40s and 50s, they don't even exist anymore. And so in securing, you know, the roughly $190 million that it took to do that, to get the Corps of Engineers finally get started next year, it looks like. And I think the engineering is pretty much done. But to actually get moving dirt, stop the seepage, uh, bring certainty to the people behind the levee that we're gonna be okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

That's a big project, and as you're describing, you know, people understand that's you know it's gonna take years to rebuild that. And it's not just shorten it up, it's a rebuilding project. Would that be correct in your assessment of the plans you've seen?

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, and you know, the and we looked at this, and this is a great example where federal, state, city governments, local governments, county commissioners all came together. There's a picture on my wall that you've seen many times in D.C. where it's myself, it's Vice President Pence was here for that when we toured. It was the county commissioners, it was Governor Stitt, it was you know it was local city mayors and and people that were here with incognito, everybody was there to look and see how we could come together and move this quickly. And I think that stamp, that moment, that picture was really uh a defining moment of what really moved the levies forward and got everybody on board.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

It's a complex issue because the levies really are a multi-jurisdictional responsibility, not one entity is responsible for them. So the federal government came in. You know, the you know you mentioned former Senator Late Inhoff was huge in that. Uh the state government, uh, Governor Stitt uh and his leadership and others, another 50 million there, and some local money as well. So it's a huge project. Took everybody to come together to get it done. And and the work's not done yet because actually the shovels turn next year, and then it'll be a multi-year project. But you know, speaking of other projects, we always talk about transportation because it's the lifeblood of our economy in any many ways, and you were instrumental in a roadway that's a county roadway. Once again, these complex things between municipalities and and and county and state, but uh Garnett and 101st is a is a county road, county intersection, but Tulsa's on one side, Broken Air's on the other, and Bixby's not far. And you were instrumental in helping us secure a grant through FEMA, because it's a flood zone, to to really, you know, break the dam and actually get this thing going. Could you tell us a little bit about your experience with FEMA and how all the behind-the-scenes things that I don't even know about that you had to do to try to help us get to where we need to go?

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Yeah, I I know everybody saw it play out over the last uh 18 months about some of the corruption in FEMA and the waste. But you know, it's great working with folks like yourself on these projects because you're right. I I had no idea that was a county road, and my guess is nobody else did either and still doesn't. But it's one of those areas when, you know, the the people that set the fence lines or set the the city uh boundaries, they say, I don't want that because look at the the cost that's going to be associated as it comes into that intersection. It's so low. And you know, the great work that you and your team are doing to raise that up to get it out of the flood zone so that uh people don't have to worry about detouring, especially with all the housing that's going on in that area and the growth between Broken Arrow and Tulsa. And Bixby, like you said, is coming up from the south and is not too far out to the west. And so it there's a lot going on there. And I think as I recall, that's kind of all coming to a like a confluence, if you will, right at that intersection.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

It is the confluence of Tulsa, Bixby, and Broken Arrow. And, you know, uh sometimes the when there's annexations happening, the cities don't don't take the road and it's a borderline road. We have several examples of that. But in this case, you know, we really probably weren't going to do that project unless we found a way to do it creative way, and I'll give credit to the engineers here in Tulsa County to apply for that grant. Because if people know that area, it's a flood zone. That's where, you know, the the Turnpike Bridge is extended for a long way there, and they're working on that right now, a different project. But you know, it's a big flood zone, so that intersection floods continually, and there's been major accidents, it's a huge safety thing. So it's unusual to get a flood mitigation, hazard mitigation grant for a roadway. And so thanks to you and others, Senator Lankford, at the time, Senator Vermolan, but your office was there from the very beginning trying to make that case.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

Yeah, I think what really shocks people when they see that I think that total project is about 12 million. I think we're all of us together were able to secure about 9 million of that or somewhere in that area. But I think it really shocks people to see what it costs to build a mile of road. And as I've shared, I I may be the only one in Congress that's actually seen the cost of a mile of road, having spent you know, five years representing the Tulsa area on the Turnpike Authority many years ago, um, and and seeing that that when you you know when you have it funded, you actually have a lower cost than you would if you're doing like on the federal the ODOT, and depending upon the surface transportation bill that's now bogged down in Congress, um, trying to get that done, get it moving so that there's a five-year secured outlook for doing the great wardwork that road work we need to be doing in this state and others. Because as a contractor, those who are watching this, you you want to have certainty you're gonna get paid and there's not gonna be any stoppage. So you have to build in historically that we're gonna slow down or stop while we're waiting on these transitions. So I think it's great to see what you guys are doing.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Well, it's kind of even come back full circle with these transportation and budget issues, which you've been involved in for years in Congress trying to move things forward. You know, during the process we're trying to fund 101st and Garnet, there were two government shutdowns. Um, and that really stopped everything with FEMA. It stopped our whole process of trying to um find out exactly what we needed to do. Again, your office was very helpful in navigating those, but that's exactly the type of thing that happens. And when the contractors and other people who are going to be involved in building this see that, they kind of pull back from those opportunities. It kind of hurts our bidding process. And it's just that's another real life example of shutdowns and how they um hurt big projects that really affect real people. So thanks for your work on that. And you know, as we go forward in this difficult season, you know, the political season is sometimes challenging, you know, and we're trying to get a budget passed, you all are as well. And you know, you know, what can you tell us about the next couple of months and how that might unfold?

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Well, unfortunately, in an election year, and there's obviously a a lot of disdain uh by my colleagues uh of the other party toward President Trump. So they're not going to support anything that would give the appearance of supporting any initiative that he would that would want to do. The unfortunate thing for them is that's really harmful in actually getting a budget passed. So you see these budget reconciliation processes, which historically has always happened when the the same party has all levers of government, House, Senate, and the White House. But to do it twice in the same year is pretty historic. We did that uh back trying to get the government open, which is a typical normal function of Congress, but had to use reconciliation because uh Senator Schumer shut down the government over Department of Homeland Security, uh something that Senator Mullen, now Secretary Mullen, was trying to get back open to protect this nation from bad actors around the world. And so that got open, and now you know we have these other things like supplemental for our military so that they can get paid. Um, those are probably going to be done on a reconciliation bill. And and and the unfortunate thing is for everyone is that that sort of politicizes the normal operating functions of of government. Um and so we'll see where that goes. You mentioned the shutdown. I I think it's really important to reiterate what we said on the onset of this, what you just said. You think about you know, contractors, people say, well, we get more competition. Well, people that might be thinking they want to get into the road building business with the government, then see this happen. They say, no, I'm just gonna stay in private contracting because I got to have certainty. Right. So you don't get any new people. And then you think about that across the defense industry, the ag industry, other types of hard start and stop people just wanting to get in and compete to lower pricing. It just doesn't happen. So start and stops of the government, shutdowns of the government just do not work.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

Well, we want as free of markets as we can get, more competition, more people involved, we get better pricing. You know, I I know you're you're a free market type person, and I really appreciate that in your approach to government, your approach to budgeting. You know, these things, you know, they affect us all. So you know, you we mentioned Senator Mullen, former Senator Mullen. You know, he was uh the senator uh helping uh one of the ones helping with some of our road projects there, and you know, the president tapped him to to um lead DHS. Uh so his uh his um his legacy is is is strong in our state, but you know, there's gonna be a new senator, and I know that you're you potentially could be uh serving in the Senate, and we wish you the best, and we we know you know you have the experience to really carry that forward. So, you know, we wish you the best with that, but also it's important for us to say you've been our congressperson, our member, our congressman for, you know, uh nearly eight years, and you've done a fantastic job, and we appreciate your leadership and everything you've done. And and you know, that really speaks well of you and also the opportunity that you have to serve in another capacity. So we're excited about that for you.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Well, thank you. And it's truly an honor to serve. Never served in anything prior to eight years ago running for Congress, spend my entire life in business, you know, serving Big Macs and Egg McMuffins and a lot of coffee at McDonald's for 35 years with the first time I met you. Yeah, exactly. McDonald's down in Glenpool, I believe. It was many years ago, many years ago, when when you were doing another uh public servant role. But uh, you know, it's really an honor to serve. You learn so much. Um, you have to bite your tongue a lot because quite frankly, some of the things that are said about you or you say that people say about government, we probably said the same thing before we got involved because we just didn't know. We just want it to work and we want everybody to get along. But the reality is is if everybody just got along, then who whose opinion matters, right? So I think it's uh this opportunity to respect ideas, um, to agree to disagree uh professionally. You don't have to be a name caller. Um, you know, I was telling my wife the other day, I don't think that I ever, I've told a lot of people this as I've gone around the campaign trail, that I don't think I've ever, in front of a microphone, ever spoken ill of any person by name in my eight years. Um then I said to her, I said, you might want to check Grok and Gemini to make sure that's true. And it is true. It's the truth. I have never called anyone by name in any of my comments, unlike many of my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, quite frankly. I just think that's not healthy. Uh I think uh civil discourse is important. It's important what you do. And I just want to say this before we have to go. Uh I still think that what you all do as county commissioners is, I mean, you are where the rubber meets the road. You're driving down the roads, you're you're out grinding asphalt up to put new asphalt down, you're on graters, you're, you know, you're you're out putting oil on roads that need to have the dust off of them. You are closer to the people in your district and in your area of the county than anybody else of any type of government. And so I know you know that, and you don't look at people and say, are you a Democrat or Republican, or do you not care about politics? How can I serve my portion of the county? And as people may not know, there's three county commissioners for every county in Oklahoma. That's right. And everybody has a responsibility to do just that. But um, let us know how we can help you. And you always have, and our office is uh standing ready to go. Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

Uh again, honor for you to be here today. And uh hopefully we'll visit with other federal members of the our delegation of Oklahoma in the future. But you know, uh it's really um we're blessed to have you uh as your service and wish you the best in in the future and and thank you for being here because I know it's a it's a busy year and you've got a lot of places to go. But being here and thank you for your kind words, so I know all the commissioners feel the same way about that I do, that your service is valuable and you understand what's happening and you work hard to connect with your constituents, and that's that's evident for everyone to see. So thank you very much. I know we're you've got a tight timetable, we're almost right on time here, and I'm gonna thank everyone for joining us, but also follow us on all our social media for Tulsa County and again tune in to the county line. We want to have you here listening to the things that we have to say and the people that we have to speak. So thank you for being here, Congressman.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Great to be with you. Appreciate you.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Thank you.