Aidan F Browne

Browne’s unique professional narrative is built on his status as a dual-qualified attorney. After qualifying in Ireland in 1982, he moved to Boston in 1986, where he earned a U.S. law degree from Suffolk University. This allowed him to spend the next 30+ years at the international firm Sullivan & Worcester, acting as a high-level "translator" between the legal systems of the EU and the United States.

His most significant professional contribution has been his 25-year partnership with A&L Goodbody, Ireland’s leading law firm. In this role, he has been the primary point of contact for countless American corporations—particularly in tech and life sciences—seeking to establish their European headquarters in Ireland. He is widely credited with helping grease the wheels for the massive flow of Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) that defined the modern Irish economy.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to Iron Island Discs, the podcast today where we talk to Irish people from different walks of life as they reflect on their own journey. Join me, Dr. McCoy, as we explore the many aspects of Irish Doctor and what it means to each of our guests to write ups and downs. Amen Brown, welcome to Iron Island Discs. Now, first question for you. Is have you been to Iron Islands or is this your first trip?

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Well, I'm going to answer it the same way, Rosa, as I did, or at least when I was speaking with the first female astronaut to walk in space, Kathy Sullivan from Cleveland, Ohio. I recruited Kathy to the board of the Swerford Business School. Oh gosh, probably 15 years ago. And I asked her had she ever been to Ireland? And her answer was no, but I've seen all of it. I've crossed the Atlantic, Rossell, uh probably 200 times. Maybe round trips, so it makes it 400. And a lot of the flights going in over Dublin into Dublin would fly over the Iron Islands. It'd be my my first taste and flavour of being whole, as it were. How about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I've been there three times, and each time the weather has been super, no rain, twice sun splitting the stones, and the water look turquoise blue, great for a swim. And I now be afraid to go back in just in case. I was windswept into the Atlantic by mistake after an English. So I've got that image in my head, and that's partially the reason for the title of this podcast. So it takes me that back to that place. So it's worth a visit. You should do it. I visited your friend Kevin Cullen. He has a rake of stories about his trip.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

I can only imagine. I can only imagine. The end of the rainbow outside of Dublin for me, Rossa, is uh down in the southwest. Been a a long time frequent visitor to um the Ibera Peninsula, which is down down to started in Balance Gellix, where my neighbor growing up, his grandmother was from Balanced Gellics, and I went to visit with him for a number of summers uh for about a month. And more recently, well I say more recently, when I started my golf expeditions to Ireland, they were always down to the southwest, and uh Waterville has become a home away from home for me. It's um and for the family, in fact. My son and I, Sam, he was now 40. When he was 13, say that again. Sam was now 40. Oh my god. Sam is 40, and when he was 13, I took him over to the father and son golf tournament uh in Waterville. And we haven't other than for other than for COVID, we haven't missed a year, so 27 years. It's a it's a phenomenal event run by the carr family, Marty Carr and his various brothers. And there it's half the field is American, half are Irish and UK, and actually now from all over the world. There are families that come from Brazil and India, etc. But we've been engaged with one of the. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Dave was a good friend of mine, God rest and many. I think he won it with you, didn't he, one year?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Oh, they walked away with it. Hugh is such a magnificent golfer. And a fellow, a fellow Royal Dublin man. I've I've been playing my Dublin golf at Royal Dublin, was actually inducted into the Hall of Honorary members the same day as Brian O'Driscoll. So I mean it couldn't get any better than that.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

He's called Bond. What are you called? AFB, is how they call you?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, you got it. You've been out of Boston for a long time, Rosso, but I'll have to say, uh, your your uh name frequently appears and in conversation over pints of Guinness. Yeah. And uh I I think you're actually missed in some small way, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:03

You shouldn't be talking to police regularly because I'm sure that's the only place my name comes up. And what do you how do you describe yourself, Aiden, your immigration papers, going visiting passport? Or are you in your mind in real life?

SPEAKER_00 4:17

That's that that's a great question. You know, more than half my life has been here in the United States, came to came to the States in the 70s when I was in college and fell in love with the place. I was the planter's peanut on the boardwalk in Atlantic City. Did you do that? I was an elevator operator in the Biltmore Hotel. Uh had the great distinction of elevating Miss Nude America. She was there for a pageant. What year was that, Aiden? 1976. It was the second year of uh Jimmy Carter's presidency. So I thought peanuts and nuts and all of that was uh appropriate industry to be trying to develop.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

No, I worked at Lanin City in 1981 in the Irish pub of just off the Borrock.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Oh well, that's my apartment was just down the road, uh, beside the Flanders.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Flanders is gone now, I believe. The Flanders.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

That's incredible. That's basically.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

And do you remember the automated car parking machine growing down the boardrock? The car used to roll road.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yeah. Hey, for also, I remember the diving horse on Steel Here. That's right. I tortured uh there was there was a little arcade with live animals in cages, and if you put a quarter in, you got they dropped some some sort of feed, nuts or something. I drove this duck mad that summer. The duck would when you put your quarter in, the duck would strut over to a little tiny little piano and bang his beak off the notes, and uh I just it just entertained me for hours. So there you go. There's the depth of my intelligence right on display.

SPEAKER_01 5:54

But then you end up being what you call yourself an attorney now. Isn't that what you that's it? Yeah, yeah, no, attorney at law.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

How about that? No, I so no, the history largely was scraped away with a uh a really, really poor leaving cert. In fact, had to repeat the leaving, and even in the repeats, I uh I had one honor from the first time round, and I needed two to get into UCD, um, into either arts or commerce, but I wanted to get into commerce and I repeat it. And unfortunately, that wasn't all that successful. I didn't really apply myself in the repeats, but did appeal those uh results. And lo and behold, I got a letter from Unrian Idrakus that said, Um, we've elevated one of your scores. I think it was in botany from a D to a C. Big go. And and then that so the rest is history, you know what I mean? Things in life, it's extraordinary, these little things that occur, and they're they're so determinative of where you end up. So I did the B Calm, came to the States during the summers and enjoyed that, really fell in love with the States. So I had a great ambition to come back. But my family also had a great ambition to get me back. And uh my brother-in-law, uh, who is a partner at Beacham's solicitors, offered me an apprenticeship, which was that was gold, uh, absolute gold dust. You you uh were very, very difficult. There were very few, relatively few solicitors in Ireland at the time. And when you took on an apprentice, you were tied up for three years, so that left very little opportunity to get an apprenticeship. But Tommy, fortunately, and he was magnificent. Tommy was an amazing master, actually put a desk inside his own office, which I sat at and uh I learned so much from him on how to interact with clients, how to deal with issues and problems and situations that arise in within a law firm. And um, so did that, and uh it was a fabulous uh experience at Beachham's, which at the time had just was the merger of three firms. And the the uh the class of apprentices the year I joined were there was 14, which is extraordinary in terms of numbers, because in even in today's uh world of of large big law in in Dublin, the likes of A L Goodbody, who I've been a consultant with for about 30 years now, um AL wouldn't, I don't but they they might take in 14 uh apprentices in in in any given year. But um it was a fabulous class, really interesting folks, all went on to do uh significant and amazing things.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

But uh to hear you describe those years in the 70s, uh if everybody heard us talking now, Aiden, given the Ireland that exists today, that would sound like uh absolute poppycock, the fact there was uh no legal business and you were lucky to get an apprenticeship, etc. etc.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

Yes, it it's very it's amazing how different the world is today. We earned 15 pounds a week, and there was always a scramble between the apprentices to get the job to run across the Liffy. We were down on at Dollard House and the Keys, and we had to run across to the to another law firm to get the commissioner for owed signatures and documents. And but you got paid, you got you got I think it was half a pound or something for for uh a signature, and uh that was your that was your drink money, which most of it went in the Viking pub. Um so we uh so so in that then forged some very, very close, very strong relationships with that apprenticeship class, Pierce Meegan and I uh in particular, we were we were both down in Lansdowne as well. One of the things I probably regret not doing was playing rugby for UCD, but I went from school down to Lansdowne and and played junior rugby down there. But Pierce and I teamed up, and uh, because there was little or nothing going on, we were both encouraged and ambitious to do something on our own, and we set up Megan Brown and Company, Dunleary.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:09

And that went quite well, but it was it was just you know, it was hard, it was tough going. Pierce was very, very strong in litigation, and I had real estate was sort of where my interests and strengths were, and it worked, and and it worked quite well. But of course, in the interim, during all of that, while all that was going on, I married my wife now of 44 years, 45 years. I hope I got that right. You better get that right, Aiden. You better get that if she ever uh but Jill, Jill Jill, who is uh Saint Jill, she's a saint, Aiden. She's a saint. Well, you know, she she knew when to apply that uh the handbrake on me, which was really my uh my my savior many times, uh dragged me out of the fire. But uh so Jill and I married, and in fact, we had two kids uh in Dublin. And so there was always a bit of a tug back to America, and I had met these uh two individuals, partners in a law firm of Boston. They were working on a litigation transaction, and they were sort of encouraging. Um, I got my invitation to come and join their firm was phrased like this. Uh Margaret Marshall, who she went on to become Margaret's magnificent person, she went on to become chief judge of the Massachusetts Supreme Court and asked me to testify at her nomination hearings, which was one of the biggest honors I've ever had in law. And but Margaret said, We're dragging in any warm bodies we can find off the street. So I said, Well, listen, I'll qualify on one count there, right? Uh the warm body part. But anyway, uh that was it. And so after lengthy discussions, and we decided to uh pack up and and come over in 1986, join that firm, and that firm imploded. And I'd never heard of a law firm imploding before. It was half of the practice was in real estate, the other half, which was where my interest lay, and um the other half was a junk bond practice representing the brilliant gurus from New York, the the bonfires of the vanity both. Vexel Burnham Lambert types. You got it, that was it. They were the one of the number one client of that firm, Michael Milken and uh Ivan Poske. And so um both those sectors imploded, and uh the firm went from, at the time considered fairly large, it was about 180 lawyers, down to 40, and um I'm left uh dangling. Fortunately, been was working with a client uh that was doing a lot of development around the city of Boston, and his minions, um, yeah, I was the bag carrier, and his bag carriers um introduced me to um Sullivan and Worcester, where I've been now a partner for the last 25 years, and um it's an it's an incredible again, a little bit like the letter from on Ray on Ithacas. Uh, this this one introduction, because Sullivan had been doing this developer's corporate and tax work uh for many years, not their develop, not this development work. So um that's how I ended up over here. I did get to thank, you know. I mean, it's wonderful to be able to live this long and finally get around to thank people who have um had the kind of influences over my life. Richard Backer was that individual, incredible individual, who stayed with that developer, went to Washington, DC, did the famous Landsberg property development project down there, left and decided he wanted to become a rabbi. And did that for a little while and gave that up. And he has since Richard has since been spending all of his time with the dying, and just one of the most remarkable individuals. And it took LinkedIn, thank God, he surfaced on that. And I had my opportunity to meet Richard just two years ago, and we went out for dinner together and we we chatted, and I had that that wonderful moment to be able to thank him for that introduction. Without that, God knows where I'd be. Similar to the leaving cert result.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

What does Irishness mean to you in being Irish? It means a lot. I'm very proud, I'm very proud of being Irish. Does it become more of a pride thing when you live abroad than than we'd have it here, for example?

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Yeah, yeah, no, definitely. You know me, because you tend to you know your life is consumed by where you are, right? And the environment you're in, the economy you're in, the profession you're in, or the work you're in. And yeah, you'll start seeing the seeing Ireland through a much narrower lens, but it it's a pretty sharp, you get a pretty sharp focus into things that I think when you're there you you you you tend to overlook the art, the culture, the people, right? That's that's it. You know, I mean, I'm I don't go much as my work has been in foreign, a lot of my work has been in foreign investment with with the um good body folks and the work we do here at Sullivan in international law, international tax advisory work, etc. You know, I mean it's it's really not about the Celtic Tiger and it's not about the Americanization of Ireland. I you know, I mean, I I've got that in spades over here. Scale and profit and and share price and EPS and all that kind of great stuff. It's it's really about the people and it's about the environment. It's about the environment too. As I was saying earlier, you know, I spend a lot of time in County Kerry, maybe four four visits a year now, and there's something that really reaches deep down into the soul uh when I'm when I'm in Kerry. Um it just gets better. You know, I mean I go out to the Skelet uh from time to time, and there's there's such there's something really uh moving when when uh when when I mean and becomes more emotive when you come back from abroad as well.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

You see things in kind of heightened color because you don't see it every day, you know, you kind of learn to appreciate it more, whereas here we take it for granted because we believe most days it's raining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, which it has been recently, but to be fair.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

Yeah, I I saw I saw it was it was raining in County Kerry every day so far this year. Six weeks or so. But I love the preoccupations with weather and all those sort of things. Well, it's part of our daily chat. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

But the fun, the the lightheartedness, the um all of that is and does the does the button does the botany come in handy with your golf game, or is your golf game straight up the middle and on the green regulation?

SPEAKER_00 16:54

I I like to think I stayed that in a minute. No, but I'm I'm a f a very frequent visitor into the uh into the lushness of of uh this the stuff you find down around uh Waterville and and Hogshead. We joined this place called Hog's Head as well, which is extraordinary uh addition to hospitality. And old man who was invited, has he showed up yet, Mr. Spring? And comfort. Oh yeah, no, Mr. Spring and I have, and actually his two nephews, Graham, who is is the general manager at Dukes now. Oh, is he? Uh and was a former, yeah, former European tour player, as you probably know. Yeah. Graham and Poddy Doyle is his other nephew. Poddy is from Waterville and uh fabulous golfer. It's it's it's such a treat to be to be hanging out uh with those great golfers. But it's always a treat to hang out with Dick. We've been friends going all the way back to those Lansdowne years. And uh Dick, like myself, married an American. So Jill and Christy would have an awful lot in both in common and a lot to tal to talk about, particularly back in those years too, when getting a telephone was really hard, finding a telephone box that you used to tap or something to make call across to uh the US. Yeah, no, we we keep in touch and um there's always great conversation with the real taunus stuff.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

And could you make a career in rugby um based on your Lansdown achievements or not? No. Okay. We can clear the record for that.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

I was over I was there for one of the Six Nations matches last year and went into Lansdown for a pint afterwards. And there there I am. Oh up on the wall on the left-hand side. It's it stands out. It was the Morn Cup uh winning team led by the great Eddie O'Connor. Uh Eddie, who is just a remarkable individual in so many ways, apart, even apart from his super career. But it's it stands out, Rossi. If you're ever in there yourself, have a look. It's on the stairs on the way into the bar, and it's the only one that's in black and white.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

So if I'm walking out and forget to see how my way in, it's I'm not colourblind, it is black and white.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

You're not going colorblind, no, that's it. That's the one. And it it was a fabulous group of individuals. There was the blend of the old guys coming down from the first team. This was this was third age, the one cup, right? And we had young fellas coming up, guys like myself and Rory Smith and John Conby and Martin DC, and and then we had the the guys coming down who were really good, Johnny Mitchell and Eddie, of course. And he was Eddie, Eddie played for Cog in his day. But there was a guy from New Zealand, and his name was Greg Doolin. And Greg had an earring about that in the 70s, yeah, playing rugby. And he gave the earring in during matches. I always wondered how he didn't get his ear torn off. But um, they were wonderful times, and and and you know, we we played our final in uh Donnybrook and against Wellesley and and beat that. I had a I had a try disallowed but when you hear this. I had a foot in touch. It was taken away. Yeah. And the TMO said the TMO spotted it. I have to tell you, I I still think about that foot in touch because I didn't have to put my foot in touch, you know? Yeah, it's it's it's lingered with me for now for over 50 years. Give yourself a break. Give yourself a break. It's over. Just can't get over it. But can you imagine dropping a ball or something like that? Playing for Ireland or something, the the the torture that that puts you through.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

Has been Irish been a hindrance or a help? You know the the traditional stories you like to banter no Irish didn't apply in Boston with this, that, and the other, living abroad. Being Irish, I mean, I know my experiences. I want to know what your experiences were. Was it a hindrance, a help, or did you get in the way at all?

SPEAKER_00 20:55

It was unbelievably important. And particularly, you know, uh as many people would point out, you know, with with my line of bullshit, particularly, it went so far in terms of relationship building and network building. I I've I've I've a I have a lot a lot of network capital. And uh I invest that capital every day. And um, you're the you're the guy to this day. I'm still the guy who stands out, you know. Oh, he's the Irish guy, he's the guy with the with the with the funny accent. And accents, I don't know how I I've I've I've picked up everything you could possibly pick up in America except the accent. And it's not that I try uh not to pick it up, I just never had an ear for it. And probably also the fact that literally back in Ireland every two months for you know for the last thirty five years or something.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Well, you can imagine what would happen if you came back and started parking your car, you know, you'd be sent back in a box.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

I I have a nephew out from Colorado and he's He's got the twang, that mid-Atlantic thing, and and he gets all sorts of dogs if he's doing the song. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

And resilience, does resilience mean anything to you, or do you think that's a manufactured word uh these days? No, resilience.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

Well, uh, if I look back on my own uh journey, I would say the I've I had to be very resilient over the years. And I think about you know overcoming the academic challenges, and I was I was terrible suited, you know, you know, it was really brutal. Part of that was that I was dyslexic. I was gonna say, yeah. Undiagnosed, dyslexic. So and and what a what a what a business, what a career to go into with with with trouble reading, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Well, to get through, I was gonna say even get through commerce in effect, because some of those subjects, this wouldn't be wouldn't lend itself or would be helpful, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah, but there were lots of lots of reading when it came to uh law. And of course, I went to law school twice. I I might be the only uh the only Irish guy that passed two bars without going into either of them.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Like legal bars, you want to say, lawyers.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

But uh so that those sort of challenges were there, you know, as it's it's you overcome them and you you you keep moving. And resilience, yeah, it's you know, I mean uh not with Sapphire.

SPEAKER_01 23:16

Have you had any kind of major failures or flaps beyond the academic in a later life that you've had to dig deep and come back from, which could go into that carry, or has everything been rock and rock?

SPEAKER_00 23:28

But the big the the big the big one career-wise was was when that when that first law firm I joined in Boston called Sapphour and Bach, when it failed, I I that was enormously challenging. I had to reset everything. Also having to go back to law school and coming to the States, because my advice on the way over was I I could waive in, I didn't have to go back and get a jurisdoctorate degree, which is what I ended up having to do. Those sort of challenges since then. Listen, I've I've I'm I've been blessed, you know. I mean, I'm the the luckiest person on the planet, I think. I've uh and I I always acknowledge that and I'm very conscious of how lucky I've been. And there's some people say you make your own look, but I would say, Ross uh, to to be honest, I think that my my particular skill set is recognizing values and and quality in in people. And I've been fortunate to always surround myself with with extraordinary people. My my partners here at Sullivan and Worcester are just uh really exemplary folks, uh very, very bright people who have a very strong sense of ethics and responsibility. And so I would say I've just I've just been blessed. I really have. Family is valueless, you know. We've got three kids. I saw the pictures of of your daughters. Uh I similarly have two girls between them and and Sam, the three of them now, they've produced seven grandchildren for us, and they range in ages from twelve down to two, and it's it's addiction.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

That changes your worldview or your perspective of life.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

Yeah, yeah, completely.

SPEAKER_01 25:15

What is it about it, Aiden, that changes?

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Well, all all the all all the shit that you think is important, it's really not. In our two hours spent with those guys, I have two baby sits seats in the back of my uh fancy car over here, and I just go pick them up and go for a spin, and we have the best chats and conversations. It's uh it's a whole it's all in your future, uh, yeah, and you can look forward to it. It's hearing it.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

And what inspired you to get involved in UCD in North America? Whereas I'm when I met you in the early 90s, and you're still kind of involved with SmartFort.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Yeah, uh Senator Senator Maurice Manning, who is an extraordinary individual, also he taught me politics.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

He taught he's a great man. I can't I canvassed for him, yeah. I think it was 81 or something, for Fina Gale. Yeah, in the north side in Darndale, when Bobby Sands was in strike, and going around uh Dublin South side as canvassing for Fina Gale in Darndale with Morris Manning, uh, was a challenge. I learned what real life was about.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah. Yeah, Maurice, Maurice, uh I I was also in in my in my uh past, and there's a story behind it, but I was president of Fina Gail in North America. So before you paint me into a box or into a corner on that one, it was because I understood the the what's called the FARA regulations. It's the Foreign Agents Registrations Act in the US. And I and I figured out the regulations and and and what needed to be done if you were a foreign political party looking to raise money in the US. So um anyway, that's how uh I ended up as president of of Finnevel because was John Bruton, John Bruton, I think, was president of the time. John, John, we didn't have enough time to uh get the uh him the paperwork to sign to become to set up the um entity here. And I so I ended up he said, Would you do it and we'll do we'll we'll uh reform all the officers and directors at um uh at a later date. So he did that, but then it went into a black hole. So I remained. But that being said, let me add, because of my adept knowledge of the and and uh uh speed or around uh the FARA regulations, I was also president of the PDs in North America and Progressive Democrats and also Labour. Well that that that might have been a obvious one with Dick, uh but Rory Quinn um was coming to do fundraising over here, and I was helping him, another magnificent guy. But anyway, that that that's really been my only intersections with with Irish politics was in in that regard. So back to your question though, UCD was was Morris introduced me. Morris and and Patty Masterson, who is a remarkable president of UCD and a real visionary. And Patty had the had a great boreside then, and uh and I was seeing you know real strengths um in communicating the principles uh of what he referred to as the Newman principles, Carnel Newman's principles of of universality. And uh they were eager to um they knew there was a vast number of alums in in North America, but nobody had ever tapped into them. And so I was uh recruited by Morris um to start the the program. Uh it went from strength to strength. Uh I mentioned at the very beginning, Rossa, the establishment of the Smurfit Graduate Business School North American Board. I worked very, very closely with a dear friend and mentor, Lawrence Crowley. Lawrence Crowley. One of the most remarkable individuals uh had a big impact on on me and my life uh as a friend as as much as uh a mentor uh professionally. And we set about um we set about setting up that enterprise. We also engaged with the medical alums, Trevor McGill, who is remember that name? Yeah. Trevor Burrus, Jr. Was Hugh Brady involved then? Hugh came later. Um there was Art Campbell, uh uh Art not Art Campbell, uh Art Cosgrove, um became became president after Patty retired, and then Hugh came in after that.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

But he was a doctor in Boston, some period, right? He was, yeah. I never met him. I played rugby within U C D, but I never met him, oh, even though for a period we overlapped. So Trevor must have known him. Joe must have known him, no?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

And Joe, yeah, absolutely. Trevor Trevor was a a prime mover. Uh we excavated between Washington, DC and Boston at that time. Now we're going back to the early 90s, mid-night, early to mid-90s, there were over um over a thousand Irish doctors in between those two uh areas. And uh and and Trevor really did a phenomenal job in corralling them and bringing them together and elevated the reputation, obviously, the reputation of the medical school at UCD, in the same way as Lawrence had done so for the for the business school. So th they were the two big achievements. The alumni we we we excavated, uh we got got up to close to four or five thousand um alums. Uh Patty would come out and do a tour de force twice a year and visit the major cities, and we would host these black tie dinners typically with you know three or four hundred individuals. And the word it was before LinkedIn and emails and all that kind of great stuff and research tools that you have today. And it was pretty much word of mouth, and those those events which Patty um would speak at, and he had a lovely style about him. Uh, I I've seen him a f a few times recently. He's enjoying his life, and I think I think I think he's on a he got himself a small vineyard in France. Uh sounds nice. So yeah, that that was UCD. And uh it opened up uh obviously an awful lot of doors for in in terms of my own personal network. I I got to meet people from all walks of life. And I think of some of the extraordinary people, uh David O'Reilly, who's engineering guy, became president CEO of Chevron. Yeah. George Moore, who is uh phenomenal technologists and and built some really significant technology firms. Uh Martin Carey, who is uh he was a Nobel Prize candidate um on a couple of different occasions for his work, only an Irish doctor with focus on bio, but his uh he was a billionaire man. Um so anyway, it was it was really kind of uh very interesting to the kinds of individuals we ended up meeting. The the other uh adventure with Lauren.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

And those types of people have changed over the 35 years you've been there. The type of Irish people you come across.

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Those people wore suits and ties and things like that. The the the very successful ones today wear black t-shirts.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah, and in our time, or by time, some of the guys I hung around wore black t-shirts, but they weren't as clean as the one they are. I mean, the profile of the people, emigrants in Boston in my time to now has changed. Do you know what I mean? Oh, I worked for I worked for Hewlett Parker, and most of my friends didn't. Do you know what I mean? And I was very self-conscious that they thought yeah I was fancy or something, because you work for a corporation. But now that would be standard in London, Boston, Hong Kong, wherever it is. Like the type of people we're exporting are very, very different.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Yeah, I I I agree with you. And I I would have the same sort of sensibility myself coming as a as a lawyer. The barriers to entry in law uh still remain very high, and there are very few Irish lawyers uh here in Boston. You know, my vintage, there's I can only I can only think of three Jim Murray, Seamus O'Kelly, and uh Seamus O'Kelly. And remember Seamus and Anthony Fitzpatrick. And but more recently, don't don't see I don't I don't come across them. Maybe I just I'm not on the as much as I was. You mustn't go to Dooley's. Mr. Dooley's is still flying. It's it's uh magnificent. Uh the most Guinness sold per square foot in North America. But it is tidy in fairness. Yeah, Stu Abbott is over there presiding and uh looking after it, and Terry behind the bar. Wow. Terry Terry has is a wonderful individual and uh head barman and and uh has has has raised a beautiful young boy who's gone on to college and going on to great things all on a Mr. Dooley's salary. So it's uh it's still doing great things. Uh it hasn't changed a bit. I think the only thing they've changed since you were here, Rosso, with are the light bulbs.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

That's a long time ago in Paris. Music. Does music mean anything? Are there songs that have traveled with you through your life that take you places in good, bad?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah, you don't have to sing them now, but just remember Crosby Stills, Nash and Young. That that was that was the anthem in the house with the kids. Our house is a very, very fine house. There were two cats in the yard. Um yeah, no, that that whole period, and it's fabulous to see these acts now doing their probably their their swan songs and final tours. I was a great man for The Grateful Dead, love the Grateful Dead. You're a deadhead, right? I was a bit of a deadhead, continue to be a deadhead. Uh I have a trouser belt, you know, from uh there's the the dead uh skull on it. I like the dead, I liked and but I I I also it was a great time music at that time the time when I came to the States first. Music was a huge part of of my interest and and love of America. Um Stevie Wonders uh songs in the Key of Life, that that three album set that he did was just extraordinary. But then there was we had Supertramp and we had Live Aid. We played Live Aid now every Christmas with the kids, and we marvel at the look of the folks as much as the songs. But Bob, Bob was the band. Super and he uh your Bob, our Bob. Yeah, he's uh uh what what he did in that program, which was really off the charts. I actually was fortunate. Jill and I were over in London and we were at the live eight concert, which was you know the follow-up one. Yeah, and that was kind of a great experience. But music, yeah, and the Irish music is is also important. Uh my great friend since passed away. You remember Brian O'Donovan? I presume.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

So he used to play the the truth music on Sunday night on whatever W something.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah, on uh WGBH. And Brian Brian is the absolute leading authority in the world on Celtic music. So um he he developed a program at the Byron over in um in uh Cambridge, Somerville. And the Byron is um a fabulous venue, and at the back of the bourne, you'll have uh recently went to see Andy Irvine uh play. He's on tour, yeah. Yeah, oh it was absolutely spectacular, which really brought me back to my VCD days.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Paul Brady was commenting on that. I think it was Paul Brady, he can't believe Andy's still on the road, and he's no young man, he's still packing his bang and going all over the world.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

It's amazing, and his repertoire, yeah, the songs, the songs he sings too, the lyrics go on and on and on. It's uh I I I was I was marveling at his his ability to stamina to recall recall and stamina as well. Uh Sharon Shannon comes and plays there. Some, you know, I mean that that music when I was in U back in UCD days, you know, Planksy would play fairly regularly. Yeah. And you look at where all those individuals went with their music and styles from Christy Moore to uh Andy Irvine.

SPEAKER_01 37:17

Yeah, I saw them in 79, 78, 79 in UCD.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

I love Paul Brady's voice, you know, that Donegall, raspy, gorgeous stuff, and Arthur McBride's, you know, bring a tear to a glass eye. Some of these beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

And poetry, is there any writers or phrases, poems, or sayings that give you strength or reminders?

SPEAKER_00 37:39

My brother is a poet, Terry, published, and um he publishes under the nom de plume of Hey Machine. Hey Machine. Hey Machine and Hey Machine, and in parentheses it is a small E. Yeah. So say that fast in your head there a few times, Russell. And what do you get? Hey Machini. Hey Machini. You should try and get a copy, or I'll send you one. Um so so uh so Ter Terry is the poet in the family. I I enjoy it. I have Where are you in the family? You in the middle? No, I'm the youngest of seven. You can probably could always tell that. Boiled rotten and easy envy to buy them all, you know. Yeah, so I I I had the great pleasure of being on a flight with Seamus Heaney. He wrote a few lines for me, right, which I treasure, and uh it was uh little there's a little bit of sarcasm in it. I loved it. Can you quote them? Nope. Off the top of my head, it was it started with something like it was back in the day when um Erlingus, if you had the right relationships, you could get bumped up to the uh you know, the to the pointy end of the plane, right? And I'm I'm sitting up there and the next thing in an empty seat beside me, and the next thing who appears only Seamus Heaney, the great Seamus Heaney. And um, we drank a lot of whiskey and we had great conversations across the board, and I was explaining to him that curriculum that our kids were um engaged in in high school here, secondary school, included his work, right? So he was skeptical of that. He thought I was making it up, which I might have been, but anyway. It sounded good. It sounded great, you know. So he wrote uh the one of the opening pieces, he wrote two little stanzas for me, but the first one started with, and I won't be able to quote the whole thing, but it started with I was shifted up once and then sat down next to Aiden Brown. Uh that's quality. And then he then he goes on to say, Who tells me? And I think he put that in italics. Yeah, he said, Who tells me? His kids know who I am. Uh so I'll send you a copy. I have a copy of it. I treasured those uh the handwriting on on a on a yellow pad that I happen to have in my bag. Oh, poetry.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

And in closing, then how would you reflect on your life? Not that it's over where, but looking back, are you surprised where you got to? Is this part of your plan? And we look back and say, how the hell did I get here? Where did the time go? What is your outstanding sensational feeling?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Spoke of how lucky I've been. Uh been lucky in marriage, lucky with family, lucky with my own family back in Ireland, you know, all seven of us are are thriving. Uh and uh being the youngest of that, uh several siblings in their 80s. I think I you know, I I live life pretty intentionally. I I recognize that that the people around us is what makes our lives valuable. And uh I've just been blessed with great people, great relationships. You know, here we are, Ross uh, you and I speaking uh after all these years, uh, just seems like yesterday. And um I said people are at just at the core and at the essence of of my life. And uh I'm grateful for all those friendships, all those relationships, and and long may they continue. You're still a paddy at heart. Can't get over it. Stuck with stuck with it. For good or for bad. Stuck with it, exactly. I look forward to raising a few points with you back in Dublin. I'm coming over for the scuffin match, and uh I'll make a make a point of connecting with you Ross.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

You get your people to call my people, will you? I will. And we can do lunch. Aidan Brown, thank you for joining us today on our night and disc.