Rach Jobling- Part 2 The silent shift of perimenopause

In part 2 of Erica's conversation with Rach Jobling, The discussion goes even deeper into the realities of womanhood, identity, relationships and the impact hormonal change can have on every aspect of life. Together, they unpack the ripple effects perimenopause can have on mental health, motherhood, partnership, self-worth, intimacy, and the way women see themselves during this season. This episode is an honest and compassionate conversation about burnout, overwhelm, nervous system disregulation, and the importance of women feeling supported instead of silenced. More than anything, this episode is a reminder that women were never meant to navigate these transitions alone. If this conversation resonates with you, we invite you to share it with another who may need to hear it.

If this episode resonated with you or you would like to know more about Rach, you can find her on instagram @theregulatedwomanau

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Transcript

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Welcome to the Sear Movement, Women in All Seasons. I'm Erica, wife, mum of three boys, business owner, and founder of Sear Hair Lounge. This podcast was born from the honest conversations women share in our salon chairs every day. About change, growth, and the seasons of life we're all navigating. Join me as we share women's stories and gather insight from experts to help bring understanding to these seasons. Because no woman should have to navigate her season alone. Welcome back to the SEEA movement, Women in All Seasons, and part two of my conversation with Rachel Jobling, the silent shift of perimenopause. If you haven't yet listened to part one, I encourage you to begin there, where Rachel shares invaluable insights into the often overlooked realities of perimenopause and the profound impact it can have on women's lives. So, Rachel I want to touch on nutrition and support now and what actually helps. If a woman could focus on just a few key things nutritionally, where should she start? Okay, so the biggest one is blood sugar regulation. It in itself it's you know it is critical. The spikes and the crashes, this impacts our energy, our mood, um, weight, all of the things. So when we talk about blood sugar regulation, it is about having balanced meals that include protein fats and carbs that are going to sustain you for periods of time, with which means that your energy stays stable and you are recalibrating every few hours to ensure that you can consistently get throughout the day. So blood sugar regulation starts with breakfast, which is I guess the lead into the second one. So so many women are throwing in a piece of toast three or four hours after waking. This in itself is such a big impact. So nutritionally, or not even nutritionally, the way that we it goes in the morning is that we wake up with cortisol levels, so it's been you know it's been said to be negative, but cortisol is amazing, it wakes us up in the morning. But what we see when we talk refer to blood sugar regulation is that a lot of women are going long periods of time without food, which means as their cortisol levels continue to rise, their blood sugar starts to decline, and this then usually impacts them later in the afternoon. But they will notice you know think feelings of anxiety in the morning, those sorts of things. So, you know, having breakfast within 60 minutes of waking that has a decent protein anchor is a game changer, not only for that morning period, but also into the afternoon, it can help prevent those energy crashes, it can help support you know brain function throughout the day. So blood sugar regulation starts with breakfast essentially. What about protein and how does that play a role in our lifestyle? And are generally women getting enough of that protein? Look, no, they're not. So on average, we're aiming for say 1.2 to 1.6 grams per kilo. A lot of women are significantly under-eating protein. We need protein for muscle mass, for recovery, for brain function, um, to support our hormones, support our blood sugar regulation, and a lot of women are missing the mark. There is a I guess they're still trying to come to terms with how they can get more into their diet because previously they might have consumed more carbohydrates or a higher fat diet, um, and then protein has been something that you know it takes a little bit longer to uh prepare or it means being pre-organized. So protein it needs to be the center of the focus because it will support that blood sugar regulation, it will support muscle mass, which then has a big impact onto our weight. It's just something that is falling off or is overlooked. I think there's more understanding around it. Like you'll see you'll hear women exp like talk about you know needing more protein in their diet, but I think that the amounts is probably something that they're not understanding. For example, if we're aiming for around 30 grams, a lot of people will say, I have one egg, which is amazing. It's a great start, it's a great starting point, but you know, one egg has seven grams of protein, so we would technically need four eggs, and they can't even comprehend how that much protein would be needed in a breakfast, or the fact that you know that's too much calories, you know, they're still undereating significantly across all food groups and all you know, protein, fats, and carbs, they're still, you know, thinking that a thousand calories is going to move the needle in their um weight, and as a result, things aren't changing. Um, so anchoring protein at every meal should be essential, minimum three times a day with around 30 grams, and making sure I always have a rule that says no naked carbs, which means that when we have a carbohydrate like fruit or a piece of chocolate or something, we're always anchoring that with some protein to support our blood sugar throughout the day. I remember having a conversation with you in the early days where we were just starting to get to know each other, and we did talk about protein and how important that was, but you also said to me how important fibre was as well. Is this something that people are missing? They think it's solely just about protein. A hundred percent. Like I would I did, and I remember that conversation. Um, protein, so important, but fibre, particularly in perimenopause, fibre is like the underdog in a way, like it's the underrepresented dietary addition that every person needs. But essentially, I think fiber is known mainly for you know gut health and bowels and those sorts of things. But what is under um misunderstood is that fibre, particularly in those perimenopause years where there are things like fluctuating hormones, it plays a big role in estrogen elimination. So estrogen is on the back of fibre, and and it is the way that we are able to eliminate excess estrogen, particularly for people with you know high estrogen levels, that is something that is um the first thing that we prescribed. Outside of that, for cholesterol levels, cholesterol is another one that is impacted significantly by fibre. So, you know, if we're looking at gut health, hormones, bowel function, all of the things, fiber is and should be one of the most important additions to every woman's diet. But if we're looking at it, particularly for those who are gluten-free, um, they're you know eating low carbs, that's where we start to see fiber very, very low. And ideally, we want to aim around 25 to 30 grams per day for an adult person. So, how does gut health tie into hormone balance? Oh, the gut health microbiome. Look, it helps metabolize and recycle estrogen, it plays a big role there. We also have things like leaky gut, which can often be a spin-off of things like estrogen dominance where that inflammation plays um comes into play. Um, our gut health is really important and very misunderstood, I think. It also, you know, it supports detoxification, so our liver plays a big role in our gut as well, and in interconnected with our gut as well. So making sure that a we're having you know things like daily bow movements that are, you know, formed well, making sure that we're able to metabolize those hormones and recycle or remove excess hormones, the gut needs to be working really well, and often it's one of the limiting factors for many women. Are there specific nutrients or deficiencies that you commonly see? Uh absolutely. So some of the big ones are vitamin D, iron. Now, a lot of people are just looking at ferritin levels, but what we're often seeing is uh minimal iron being transferred to the tissues, which then represents energy. So sometimes ferritin is something that um can be impacted by inflammation or the pill, for example, it can often give an um inaccurate reading of the ferritin levels. So we never look at ferritin, we're just looking at things like transferrin, saturation, hemoglobin levels, vitamins like B vitamins is a big one, links into energy, brain function, um, vitamin D is another one, um, interlinked with things like thyroid and magnesium is another one as well, in terms of like we're seeing mineral deficiencies as well being very common in those paramenopauses. And how can we support our energy levels in a sustainable way? Look, a couple of different ways. Obviously, getting your blood stun is one of the best ways because you can see instead of taking a multivitamin, you can actually see what needs supporting and you know have a dedicated regime put together to improving that energy. Outside of energy levels, um sorry, outside of um nutrients in in a vitamin format, uh things like um exercise obviously supports energy. Circadium rhythm is a really big one. Going to bed at the same time every night, waking at the same time and supporting sleep, like sleep, underpins all of our functions, and it's probably one of the biggest ones we see. So many women late night scrolling, which impacts that circadium rhythm, that you know, blue light exposure then contributes to those night waking, and then they're feeling wide and tired. So, energy levels definitely B vitamins is a big one, iron's another big one. Um, things like beef liver and spleen is incredible to support iron levels because it's got all those cofactors in B vitamins, zinc, those sorts of things as well. It's supporting that circadian rhythm and eating regularly. Yeah, obviously. Fueling your gut, fueling stuff, yeah, absolutely. It's not under eating, that's probably and oh look, hydration, sorry, that is another one. Hydration is very underestimated in terms of not only obviously water but remineralisation as well. Because obviously, electrolytes and things support hydration. Sometimes water's not enough. So drinking enough water is the first point, but making sure that you're getting enough electrolytes throughout the day as well. So we're almost like a steam train, aren't we? Where adding adding coal into the flames so that it keeps going. Yeah, the food food and uh water's the same. So, what does supporting the nervous system actually look like in real life? Look, there's a few different factors that impact on the nervous system. So the first one is blood sugar regulation, and that would always be my starting point because it has a direct correlation to things like um heightened anxiety, because if you're not supporting your blood sugar, your the impact is heightened cortisol, which is then going to cause all of that dysregulation. So I would start with blood sugar regulation. The other things are obviously exercise and breath work, incredible. In saying that sometimes things like exercise can be something that dysregulates when you are in a period of excess stress, so higher intensity exercise is not supportive of a nervous system. So understanding where that sits, circadian rhythm is huge, as I mentioned, that going to bed at sleep at sleep at night time and waking up at the right time, so supporting your sleep because a dysregulated sleep is a dysregulated nervous system, like that is probably one of the biggest drivers for many women that constant waking, they don't have a wind-down process, they don't you know go to bed at the same time every night, they're often staying up late, so we've got blue screens, obviously, all impacts on the nervous system. Now we've got something called Ultradian rhythm as well, which is where it's part of my hormone sink program, but we talk about it, but it's where we're supporting our body in 90-minute increments throughout the day because there's it, you know, the circadian rhythm, then the ultradian is where, or infradian is another one where we're supporting our body in the rhythms throughout the day, and screen time is a big one for people who are in office jobs, for example, that are spending a lot of time on content creators. So having 90-minute breaks where you're stepping away from screens is another way to support the nervous system because it has a throw-on effect to not only energy levels but the way that the body responds. And then you've got nutrient levels, is another one, obviously, B vitamins having uh specific nutrients that support the nervous system in and where it's at, and that's obviously when you know through testing you can further support that. Like, I mean, we hear a lot about obviously meditation and breath work, and look, breath plays a very big role, like you know, ensuring that you are uh having moments where you are in um having full breath. Like I love the four, seven, eight breath work to do it. A stop light or something, it's my go-to. I'll do it in the shower. It's a really quick one that you're able to do to um, you know, our breath is interconnected, obviously, with our nervous system because we naturally hold our breath. Exercise weight training, incredible for nervous system in particular, and hydration. So I want to touch on the exercise. Are we over-exercising or and under recovering as women in this phase? Um are, some aren't. I see both ends of the spread spectrum. So I see the um avid exercises that are still doing six, seven sessions a week at a higher intensity and wondering why their body shape isn't changing, why their energy is still low, uh, why they're not building muscle mass. So we're seeing lots of a lack of recovery. The fueling is inadequate pre- and post-training, the nutrients aren't where they need to be, the hormones um are declining. And whilst things like weight training supports muscle mass and testosterone levels, when we're seeing that declining at the same time, it can kind of come up against each other because there's no recovery. Then we see the other end where women are starting to move less, stay at their desk off more often, energy starts to reduce, and as a result, their muscle mass is declining and they're gaining more weight because you know, something if we're talking about weight in particular, the amount of steps we do in a day is directly representative of the weight loss that a lot of women will experience. So a lot of them think they have to like that their weight training is for is for weight maintenance, but it's actually um what we call our NEET, so non-exercise activity thermostat, so things that we're doing throughout the day, the amount of steps that we're undertaking, all those sorts of things play a big role. But I would say I see probably a 50-50 split of over-training under recovery versus not moving enough, and it's probably tending towards more that no weight training, just the average walk and maybe uh uh something else throughout the week, a Pilates session, which is kind of not enough to be honest. Okay. In terms of advocacy and empowerment, how can women advocate for themselves in a medical setting if they feel dismissed? Because it's so common. So common, so common. I think um I feel like my daily job is writing verbal scripts for women and finding practitioners that are going to support their needs, or whether that be for blood tests or prescription. So the first thing is obviously going to appointments prepared, having your symptoms written down. I'm always saying ensure that you're letting them know of all of the symptoms that you're experiencing and how this is impacting. You know, you're specifically asking like, could this be perimenopause? Because it is starting to become more widely known, but sometimes you need to name it and um put it in their minds. Making sure that you're requesting like hormone panels, that you know, it's absolutely key. So all of your sex hormones and always get a second opinion. That is key. If you're not sure of what to, you know, of what to ask for, or um, whether you're getting what you need from that practitioner, find another one, work with a functional nutritionist or a functional practitioner that can support you around those questions or ask them, like what can I ask for this, or how do I go about this because your tests are normal, your results are normal, is the most common thing that I see, and most times they're not. So do your homework. You know, there are many practitioners like myself that offer templates that show you what's normal versus not normal, so you can check for yourself if you're questioning that. But I think that we are in uh we're responsible for ourselves, and uh you know, we need to advocate for ourselves, and unfortunately, it is finding the right person, it's finding the right fit for what you need in that age and phase of your life, and you know, listening to your gut if something doesn't feel right. Yeah, I love that you talked about not normal. So, when should a woman seek help and what does not normal look like? So, not normal would be things like debilitating anxiety, suicidal thoughts, inability to function, brain fog gets so bad that it's impacting forgetfulness to the point that functioning day to day is really challenging. Yeah, probably those are the main ones excessive bleeding, or you know, obviously pain and things like that to do with your cycle, also not normal, despite what some will tell you it's just a heavy period or whatever else. But yeah, I think those they the when the mood things starts to shift and that function is impacted, and you know that something's not feeling right and it's impacting on your day-to-day life, none of that's normal, but you know, just being understanding that you don't need to you know survive this phase of your life, you don't need to just push through, you don't need to white knuckle your own health and do it on your own, because you know, life is not always how we intend it, and it can be very short. So we deserve to be happy as much as possible and to you know to find those answers and to feel supported and validated and you know have a strategy that is going to move the needle in our health and our wellness. Rach, I find you so incredibly inspiring, and I am just so drawn to you whenever I speak to you. I would love to get a little bit more personal with you if you will allow it. Um I'd I'd love to ask, have you personally experienced perimenopause and has that shaped the way that you support women? Oh yes, Erica, I have, and it has been, I have to say it's been the best, I don't know what I was gonna say glow-up, it's not really a glow-up, but it feels like a bit of a glow-up, but the best insight to the women that I work with. Now I um I have experienced a range of shifts, and um, you know, from my in my late 30s is when I had my final two, my last two children, so my twin girls, and at that phase, I already knew I had declining hormones, I had let you know, low progesterone, I had owned a gym, stress had depleted it further. When I'd done the testing pre-wanting to get pregnant a third time around, I already knew that low progesterone was something that I had to contend with. I was able to fall pregnant at 37 with our twins without like I I think I was two weeks later back to the natural path going, don't worry about the progesterone support, um, I'm pregnant. So that was obviously the start of my my um perimenopause journey. Um, and I had put a lot of those symptoms down to the stress of owning a business. I had a gym, 10 staff, my husband was FIFO, but my sleep was impacted, and so obviously my cortisol levels were extremely high. Um, and I was experiencing a number of changes. Fast forward to 2022, 2023, and I'd gone back to uni, we'd had we'd moved towns, we you know, moved with the four kids, all of the things. Life had been hectic, beautiful, all of the things. I was now in my 40s, and some shifts started to happen. So the first one was really interesting, and looking back on it, now it was so obvious, but I'm not a big drinker, but I noticed that we I went away for a girl for girls' weekend and I had a sip of Prosecco. Now I was up with heart palpitations and anxiety and awake all night. This is my first time away from my twins, and this lasted for the whole two nights. I think the second night I might have evolved into I don't know, something else, but I wasn't a big drink, and I just thought, oh, my tolerance was low. This continued every time I would have any type of alcohol. My sleep went by the wayside, awake for hours. I remember I went camping, we were in a tent, the twins had gone off to sleep in their portacards. I was like, this is amazing, I'm gonna get a great sleep. Awake all night. My husband had bought me like a pre-mixed gin or something, and you know, so this is like I only know this now. So that was the starting process. I was like, oh, this is weird, like I didn't have any problems with my sleep. I if they slept, I slept, I love my sleep. So that was you know, one little sign. Fast forward to starting a new gym, went to body fit, and I was excited, maybe came in a little bit, you know, heightened and and whatever else, but I had a shoulder injury. I in one of the you know, first weeks I'd been there, I injured my left shoulder, and so it stayed in that position for a month. It was sore, I couldn't lift it, it was really painful. That year I went to fortnightly um osteose, monthly physiose, all of the things, and it was where I experienced the biggest changes to perimenopause that I did not know were coming. So to now, I what I know is that my progesterone to estrogen ratio had extremely changed. My estrogen had been extremely. High, my progesterone at this point was low. I'd been back at uni, probably sleep deprivation, breastfeeding twins, all the things, push it down lower. So when I did that injury, it took me 12 months to recognise that it was actually frozen shoulder. So my perimenopause journey was frozen shoulder, interlinked with hormones, but no one recognised it. I went to specialist doctors, cortisone injections, I looked into everything. I've never been in so much pain in my life. So my sleep went by the way, so I didn't sleep for 11 months and there was no alcohol involved. Um I it then it went into my right arm as well, which was just so weird. I couldn't lift my arms. I experienced inflammation, I experienced weight gain, brain fog, mood fluctuations, you know, that luteal phase was extremely like I just could not believe it. And you know, I'm working in this space, so I just thought it was an injury, like you know, because people just turned me away, and because it was frozen shoulder, the research is quite uh nuanced, like it's kind of there is a lot there, but a lot of practitioners don't look at it and they're like, no, it's not that, no, it's not that. So I ended up self-referring myself to a specialist who happened to be the head doctor for the Western Bulldogs or something at that time, and I was about to go and get two injections in my bursa because they told me it was bursitis, and you know, I I was emotional, I was not sleeping, all of the things we'd just moved house, and 12 months later, and I couldn't lift my arms, and I was like, This is this is not right, this is hormonal, and I just needed some sort of validation, and he just looked at his screwed up the um referral and he said you don't have bursitis, you've got frozen shoulder, and I just cried. So that was my experience in perimenopause. But what I saw on the flip side of that, whilst I navigated so much like inflammation, it's the things that I experienced, and I I think this is important to talk about because people like they're when I talk about it, they're like, What? And I don't talk about it very often, but things like increased anxiety in the mornings. I remember like being exhausted, I'd sit at my desk at nine o'clock and brain fault would just kick in. Pain in my thighs and my hips, like excruciating pain. We have estrogen receptors, and so a lot of our um lymphatic system relies on that fascia. Um, so you know, gaining weight, even though I was still eating in a calorie deficit, you know, recovery. I would take 12 days to recover from a gym session. Like I kept training for the next four months with one arm and then it came into the next arm, and then I was like, oh, I think I need to stop now. But that pain in the legs and the hips, like aching hips, that is high estrogen that is fluctuating. So I'd had particularly in that luteal phase, would be the worst. But those are symptoms that women are just living with every day. How do I know? Because I'm working with them, like I they're saying to me, you know, this one client that went was put onto estrogen, she's like my hips are so painful. So those are symptoms that people don't under lie, understand, and that was something that you know, I'm not someone that ever had issues with my cycle. I had a very regular, light, great cycle all the way through. But the stress probably of my 30s and the decline of my um progesterone, thus late births of my twins changed the trajectory of my experience, to be honest. And I didn't know it because I was in it at the time. The beautiful side was that not only did I experience that side, but I got to see how I manage it for myself and come out the other side and experience this what you can do through you know functional nutrition, through supplementation, through lifestyle and what works, what doesn't work, and all of the things. So perimenopause, as I said, can be tough, but the learnings that you have along the way are pretty incredible. Absolutely. And I'm sure again, most women that are listening to this right now have just taken a big exhale and will feel validated and feel like they are, you know, just like everybody else and not feeling like they're alone. So thank you so much for sharing that. That's amazing. And I can completely relate to you know those feelings. And I I do want to say that you don't have to feel like that because I remember thinking it it was not a nice way to feel, if I'm being very raw and honest. It was it was very confronting, it was uh emotional, you know, and all of the things your libido is gone, you're uncomfortable in your body, you have, you know, extremely sore breasts before your cycle, you know, the inflammation, the pain, the lack of energy. I remember working in my bed with my electric blanket because of those things. Like there are that's an extreme version, but that was symptoms that probably I overlooked early on that could have been managed that didn't have to go to that level if the injury hadn't have happened. So, after experiencing this, what conversations do you wish more women were having with each other? I think the questions around, you know, how are you really feeling right now and supporting each other, being honest and open about where they are in their own journey? Probably the biggest one, you know. Obviously, we see lots of conversations around HRT and supplementation. And I look, I love that there is open quite open conversations around that, but I do I am mindful that uh them referring to good advice and finding people that they trust, whether that being practitioners online, is really important to you know reach out to those friends and say, look, I found this person, I think this would be incredible for you, you don't have to feel like that. And making sure, yeah, just asking those deeper questions to see where they're at because I think the conversations are happening more and more, but there's some bits that they're missing, there's shame, guilt, or you know, um, any of those things that are are being kept to themselves, or they feel like they just need to trudge on because white knuckle it and I'll be okay because they're managing it, so why can't I? I love that you've touched on this because I would like to gently move into a part of this conversation that can feel a little bit heavier, but it's also really important to acknowledge. There's emerging data and growing conversation around what's being called midlife transitions for women and how deeply this phase can impact not only just the individual, but relationships, identity, and mental health. We're seeing patterns where women in their mid-40s to mid-50s, right in that perimenopausal window, are experiencing significant shifts in mood, emotional regulation, and in how they see themselves and how they relate to people around them. There are also reports suggesting increases in relationship breakdown, rising levels of anxiety and depression, and even more concerning mental health struggles during this time. And I think what feels important here is not to create fear but to create understanding. Because behind all of this are women trying to navigate something they were never fully prepared for. You may have heard terms like midlife clarity or even menodivorce being used, with some reports suggesting that relationship breakdowns and increase during this stage and that many women are reassessing their lives, their needs, and their identity. There are also conversations emerging around mental health, with some data suggesting an increase in anxiety, depression, and even suicidal thoughts for women moving through perimenopause, particularly in their 40s. When you look at that alongside symptoms like sleep disruption, hormonal fluctuations, fatigue, and emotional overwhelm, it starts to paint a much bigger picture. I'd really love to hear your perspective on this, Rach. From what you're seeing in your work with women, how real is this experience? Oh, look, it's so real, Erica. It is so real. I think the missing piece though is understanding what the drivers of some of these things are. Like, of course, there are going to be marriage breakdowns and there's going to be different tolerance levels and they're going to be changes. But a lot of the drivers, from what I see, um, obviously I work in this space with women who have hormonal imbalances and things like that, they are driving a lot of those symptoms. So they're very real. The tolerance levels a hundred percent drops, but also that is a direct relationship to those declining hormones. So I think for a starter, it's common, absolutely common. We're seeing higher divorce rates, we're seeing, but if you look at some of the people that have been very vocal in this area, so like Shelly Horton is one of those, your perigodmother, she's released a book, it there has been so much that has driven the way that she's felt about herself, her relationships, all of those sorts of things. And I think that's the missing piece that when we're experiencing those, if you could just understand the baseline of where your body is sitting and the impact it has on your daily function, your brain, your body, your relationships, you would have so much better way of moving forward and an understanding of where it's coming from rather than just trying to guess what the parameters are, what's driving it, make those changes without really understanding you know where it's coming from. So, yes, it is something that we're seeing, but I am seeing the direct correlation. Obviously, I work in this space, it might be for different for a psychologist, but I'm seeing the direct correlation with hormones and that nervous system patterning, and when they are supported, for some reason, can't imagine why, we are seeing humongous impacts into relationships, into mental health, because we, you know, there is a crossover. So if someone like the when something that we spoke about at the Peritemeno event was around something like anxiety being a symptom of perimenopause, but it also if it's something that has never existed prior to this period of time, that's a little bit of a red flag to go, maybe that's a hormonal change, not a new onset of mental illness that wasn't present before. Absolutely. And so, you know, if you're questioning those things, having an understanding, iron is another one that can cause things like heart palpitations, anxiety, really low iron. So if you understand where your blood work's sitting, how your nutrients are, where your hormones are, and you're doing active things to support it, and those symptoms are still persisting, then you know your next steps. Absolutely. Is what I would say there. Beautiful advice. That was beautiful. What do you wish partners, especially men, truly, understood about what women are going through during perimetopause? Oh, so much. Look, I think there is a lot out there at the moment around, you know, those mood fluctuations, and you know, you see a lot of the reels and memes around women in perimenopause, and I think they need to understand that a lot of these physiological changes are driven by their biology, they're not choosing to be grumpy, they're not choosing to have low tolerance levels. The physiological changes that are happening to them are directly impacting on things like mood regulation, sleep, energy, and that if they are able to do anything to support that, whether that's taking things off their plate, so you know, it's something I always come back to is like not asking them what they need you to do, but making some decisions so that they don't have to have that thinking process because they've already got so many things coming at them. Those taking a few things off their plate, supporting them, making those decisions for them. It's not helpful when I say what do you want for dinner? and you tell me whatever you want. That was not what I was looking for. I want you to decide because I don't have anything left to decide in me. I want someone else to take those decisions off me, which is then obviously going to impact on stress levels and whatsoever things. So I wish that men would understand this is a biological response that is out of our control, but the way that you support it can make a difference as to the symptoms and the way that we move through that phase of life. Amen, sister. Absolutely, I love it. Um, I think conversations I think conversations like this are so important because they help take away the shame and the confusion and the isolation and they remind women and the people who love them that this isn't something to push through alone. It's something to be understood and supported and helped with care. Rach, I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you. You are absolutely incredible. Thank you for your honesty, your depth, your knowledge, and the way you hold space for all of us women in what can feel like a really confusing and overwhelming season of our life. The work that you're doing is so important, not just educating women, but in helping them feel seen, supported, and understood in their bodies again. And that's something truly, truly powerful. So hats off to you. I'm so incredibly grateful to have your part of this conversation today. Thank you so much, and congratulations on the incredible work you're doing in this space because every woman is going to get so much out of this series, out of these conversations, and you are doing an incredible job bringing this to their ears. So thank you for having me and thank you for asking me to take a look at it. It's been an honour. Thank you, Rach. Thanks so much. Thank you for being here with me today. If this conversation resonated with you, share it with a woman in your life who might need to hear it too. And if you'd like to continue walking alongside us in these conversations, you can follow and subscribe. This is the Sear Movement. Women in all seasons.