The trap of the Buddy Leader

Welcome to (un)leaderly, the podcast that looks at the world through a leadership perspective. In this episode, host Barbara Iverson talks about leaders who are so concerned that they are liked or seen as one of the cool kids by those they should be leading that they make poor decisions. She talks about how the decisions by those Buddy Leaders can come back around in painful, unwanted ways. 

Barbara tells stories from her life and looks at the world through an atypical leadership perspective. Every week she offers a challenge or task for listeners, to prompt reflection or growth. This podcast is the perfect listen for someone who feels like they don't quite fit to the typical leadership profile. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hello, and welcome to another episode of Unleaderly, the podcast that looks at the world through an atypical leadership perspective. My name is Barbara Iverson, and I'm your host. Today I'm gonna start a series on leaders that you probably or leadership styles that you probably haven't heard of. They didn't make the cut into the so-called canon. So it's not an authoritarian, authoritative, coaching, laissez-faire, servant. It doesn't fit into the category of all those leadership styles that you'll find if you do an internet search. But I think that they are styles that we tend to see, and they can either be leadership styles that we want to emulate or ones that we really want to avoid. So it's not gonna all be in order, but I'm gonna get started with it today and we'll see where it takes us. But I have a few in mind that I want to talk about, and I'm sure that as I go, others will come to mind as well, or I'll see examples of those and want to talk about them. So the first one I'm gonna share today is a buddy leader. You may have heard of that before, I'm not really sure, but it's it tends to be used to describe people who are much more concerned with the people that they're supposed to be leading, liking them, thinking of them as one of them, thinking of their leader or manager as one of the cool kids. They're they're more concerned with how they're viewed than actually probably doing their jobs. Or leading, making the tough decisions, saying no to people, being unpopular, which is part of being a leader sometimes. It's not always fun. So leaders have to make hard decisions. Leaders can also be, don't get me wrong, leaders can also be super fun and well liked by the people that they're leading. I don't mean to say that only buddy leaders are well liked. There's a difference, and I think you'll be able to see it as I describe this. So I saw buddy leaders all the time when I was working for a leadership development organization that primarily worked with teenagers and young adults. And we would have sort of getaway weekends or week-long trips throughout the year, and we called them camp. So there were two different groups working at these camps when they were happening. And one was on the administrative side, like doing the logistical things, making like setting up the program, making sure that it was fun. They'd done a lot of planning beforehand. And then there were the so-called leaders, the ones who, generally speaking, already had relationships with the teenagers who were coming. They already knew them. And so they could just be there as leaders with these teenagers, have fun with them. And also, really, they had responsibilities though throughout the time to make sure that they were supporting the program that was going on. So that would often mean following certain rules. There were definitely expectations on these leaders, and they were very clearly laid out for these leaders before and during the camp because the goal was for things to go smoothly, for there to be a lot of fun activities, but really carefully planned with definite whys behind them, which I really appreciated about this organization. Let's say, for instance, there was a food fight at lunch. One table started it, another two tables got involved, some food was wasted, some people's clothes were stained. It wasn't really a great experience for everybody. Some of the kids really had fun doing it, but others were pretty upset that there was food flying around them, and it it wasn't what they had hoped for from that lunch experience. Let's see. Let's say it that way. So when that kind of thing happened, and we knew as the logistical support staff that there would have been an adult sitting at the table with those teenagers. Now, look, teenagers, food fights, yeah, that's gonna happen. Very normal, very expected. However, the presence of one or two adults at that table should have prevented something like that from happening because the adult at the table would know this is not okay. We, if we're gonna have a food fight, it's gonna be in this organized setting where everybody knows to wear old clothes and we're not gonna be wasting food that somebody could be eating, there would have been a lot more planning involved in it. So these leaders at the table should have been the ones to keep a food fight from happening. So if a food fight did happen, then those of us who were the administrative, logistical support staff, leading program, and whatever, we get together and say, okay, we have to do something. What happened? How did that get started? How do we make sure it doesn't happen again? And when talking about the problem, the phrase that was often used was this is a leadership problem. And usually what that meant was the adult leader sitting there did not do their job, did not function the way we trusted that they would and should in a situation where kids really want to start throwing food around, they would be the ones to stop them. And if they're not the ones stopping them, what the heck is going on? And so many times, what it turned out to be, if we had a chance to observe those leaders that allowed for that food fight to take place, they were buddy leaders, usually much younger than the other adult leaders. And usually people who really wanted the teenagers that they had brought or that they were there at camp with, they they wanted them to like them. They wanted to seem cool, they wanted to seem like they were maybe rebellious and outside of that rule structure, but they weren't willing to be the essentially the adult at the table or in the room in that moment, follow the rules, do what was expected of them, and follow the guidelines that had been laid out for them. And these body leaders were kind of a nightmare because they were super unpredictable. And when things went wrong, and things always go wrong, but when things went wrong, it was usually, if it was a leader issue, it was usually because somebody wanted to be liked. They wanted to be buddies with the people that they were supposed to be leading. So it became very frustrating for everybody else around them, for the people working with them, for the people who were doing logistics or support or structures in these camp situations. I mean, it was at it was in any situation. It wasn't just a camp, but it was kind of exacerbated, or at least it was much clearer in those camp situations. In a way, saying buddy leader, it's an oxymoron because in most cases you can't be a leader if you need to be a buddy. If you need to be cool, if you need to be liked, you can't be a buddy, you can't be a leader. You gotta choose one. And sometimes that's really hard. And it's why it's really hard to lead people that you have a friendship with. Maybe you've gotten to know somebody outside of work, or maybe you're leading a team made up of people you already knew before you became the leader. It can be very difficult in those situations because they know you as someone else outside of wearing that leader hat or manager hat, and they're used to giving you a hard time or being your equal. And now suddenly you're making rules or enforcing rules or holding them accountability for actions they are or are not doing, and that can start to feel very uncomfortable. A place that I also saw this, I mean, I just want to say, I think buddy leaders, it's kind of weird that it's not really in the canon because I think it's actually super common. I've seen it repeatedly, but I really often see it in these spaces where adults are somehow engaging with and trying to lead teenagers and young adults. And I think part of the reason for that is a lot of people think teenagers and young adults are cool. They're young, they've got ideas, there's something about them, and there's a tendency, maybe because they're getting older and they want to recapture their youth, but there can be a tendency for people who are a little bit older to try to fit back in into that age group. Maturity is not a given at any age. I think the buddy leader tends to happen with younger people. At least that's what I've observed. Because, to be honest, it gets more and more absurd the older you are to be a buddy leader or to exhibit those qualities. Another place that I observed this that really had repercussions, and it's something I really want to talk about and share with you because of what happened later as a result of this. And it was, I was working for a university, and they had a really great idea actually to have an orientation day set up where there were multiple days away from the city, away from campus, where the incoming class could meet each other, get to know each other a bit, do some fun things, find out, have a few challenges, but really sort of try to gel as a cohort, as a community. And the first set of these orientation days were done. They were organized by the founders and support staff. But then the idea was that the group, the class ahead of the incoming class would be the ones to plan their orientation or onboarding days, which was also a good idea in theory. And what I wish had been done was that there would be a few adult sponsors who were also heavily involved to both equip the planners from the older class, but also to be able to say, um, I think you're forgetting something, or I don't really think that's a good idea, just to give them some guidance. Because you know what? We often think this is a sidebar. We often think that just handing somebody something is a great way to delegate and it shows our trust and it shows our belief in them. But it's really setting them up for failure because we haven't scaffolded anything around them to make sure that there's a support structure. And without that support structure, we're assuming that they know things that in all likelihood they don't. And even if they do, it's okay to have a support structure there as a reminder. And this happened kind of repeatedly with this with this organization. And I think it was all meant with the best of intentions, but it was done by a couple of the founders who were very young. And I think that in their minds, people could just do whatever they were handed. I remember at one event when I was really just getting to know the university, it hadn't even started yet. They were just doing some events to have people get to know who they were and get people excited about applying to be part of the first cohort. And I was also just sort of exploring who is this group? What are they doing? What are they about? Do I want to be part of this? And one of the founders was making announcements, or they needed to make announcements and lead this kind of hackathon that was happening. And he looks at me and he was like, Hey, do you want to take the microphone? Do you want to do this? And I said, uh, no. No, no, I no, I don't think, I don't think I should. And believe me when I say it's not because I'm uncomfortable in front of a microphone. It was because I had no idea what the expectations were or what any sort of guidelines would have been. And I would have stood up there and I probably could have filled whatever airtime I might have needed to, but it wasn't really very likely going to be even what he wanted me to say, because we never talked about it. So I think his intentions were good of like, here, little birdie, fly. I'm giving you the look at the big sky around you. But it's like, oh, but my wings haven't grown in yet. So maybe this isn't the right time. Anyway, I am so mixing metaphors right now. Hope you're enjoying that. But to get back to this story, so they had people organizing these orientation days who hadn't been given a lot of guidance, had been given a ton of freedom, all of which was fine in theory. But this second cohort of students came together and we were staying at this big hotel outside of the city, and there was a lot of activities of like get to know you, stuff like that. And we were spending a couple nights there. And the first night we discovered the next morning that three of the new students had broken into a part of the hotel that was off limits to them. It was this pool area that was not open, and there was a bar. And they'd broken into that space and they drunk some alcohol. Now, this wasn't a question of age and if it was legal for them to drink. This was not in the United States. But they had trespassed and they had essentially stolen because they'd taken some alcohol that did not belong to them, nor did it belong to us as an organization. It wasn't, it wasn't ours to use. The hotel was very graciously not pressing charges. So the cops were not called. They expected it to be handled by the university staff. Okay. So I, along with a bunch of other faculty and staff, found myself in meetings where we were discussing what do we do? Now, again, this university was very young. This was only the second cohort to start, and they hadn't even really started yet. And I looked around and realized I'm kind of one of the older people here. And I hadn't really realized that before then. But I also had realized over time that I had way more experience. At this point, I had had 15 years of experience doing leadership development with teenagers. I'd spent a ton of time with teenagers and young adults. And I looked around this room and I thought, this is quite interesting because I'm a freelancer right now. Actually, no, I had just signed a contract. So I was new in this organization. I'd freelanced with them for a year, but I was I was new as a staff person, and I didn't feel that I had much authority in that room at all. And the people who were discussing and really taking the lead in those discussions were people who had very little experience managing anything. They were exuberant people who decided to found a university, which was fantastic, and that was quite a feat in itself. But they didn't have a lot of experience leading people, certainly not leading students or younger people. So they were talking, and in my mind, my assumption was okay, these three really broke the rules. They're very fortunate that no legal charges are being pressed against them. But at the very least, they need to go home. And maybe they need to not even start at this university. Because I'll tell you, I had led an exchange program. It was teenagers around 15 or 16 years old going to the States for a year to live with an American family, go to an American high school, and then they were going to come back. And there were a couple times where people had really, young people who were planning to go over to the States had really misbehaved just before leaving. Where they'd done something really stupid or like stolen something small that we found out about, or they'd trespassed when we were out in the city, things that weren't huge, but showed that they were definitely rule-breaking types who were not super respectful of the expectations that were on them. And by and large, what tended to happen with those kids is they were sent home pretty quick. Sometimes for drug use, sometimes for theft, sometimes for downloading porn onto their host father's work computer. Mmm. And it just, those were, those were not good situations. So I'm sitting in this room listening to these discussions about what to do with these three who broke into the pool area and drank alcohol when they were not supposed to. And I'm thinking, my experience says we have to do something significant because otherwise we'll, we may have a problem later. Just because these things tend to come around and bite you. Well, I didn't have a very influential voice in that room, I'm sorry to say. And there, I was not alone in saying, at the very least, they need to be sent home from these orientation days. This is a privilege for them to be here. They can still start university, but they don't get to, they don't get to continue here. To me, that was an absolute no-go. And there were others who thought the same. The amount of people who thought they shouldn't start the university, which I was kind of on the fence, but leaning toward, they there was maybe one or two other people who thought that. But most of the people in the room were saying, uh, they seem like really nice kids. I don't, I don't really want to do anything. I I think that we need to give them we need to, we need to not be hard on them for this. It wasn't that serious. So let's let's see, what could we do? And the result was the three had to stand up in front of their peers, in front of the rest of the cohort, and say that they had done this because not everybody knew that it had happened. They had to say that they had done it, they had to apologize for doing it, and they were told, and so was everybody else, that a punishment would be handed down to them at a later date. And I don't know, I can't remember. I feel like the the ones who were gonna be deciding it was either gonna be those three or the class itself. I can't remember. I really cannot remember. But it was all just it was nothing. Nothing happened to them, truly. They stood up, they said what they were expected to say, they sat down, nothing really happened. They continued. Continued to be part of the community. They partied hard with everybody that next night, and nothing happened. And I heard from a few students later that the three who had to make the apology and stand up, they really had taken that as kind of a joke. They'd really, they'd pretended to be very serious when they were standing up there, but they'd really been laughing about the whole thing amongst themselves and with other students before they before and after they stood up, which really didn't sound like a great thing for me. Like, oh good. We've got people who are already kind of laughing about what happens as a repercussion or the consequences of actions. Fast forward to a couple years later, there had been a number of times that there were problems on campus. There were problems with students drinking and being destructive. There were problems with behaviors in group settings that were also unacceptable. Having a code of conduct would have helped. From that moment on, we knew we could get away with anything. It didn't matter what we did, there would be no punishments, there would be no accountability, there would be no consequences. We knew that. That continues to stay with me. That the consequences of being a buddy leader and wanting to be liked and not wanting to make the hard decisions and have consequences and accountability for actions, it comes back around. It makes a difference. It makes a difference in the culture, it makes a difference in the actions and the assumptions and the expectations of the people you're leading. And it's really hard to get that back. Once it's been lost, it's very, very hard to regain. And I wish that it had been done differently. Okay, so I've already edited this episode, and I'm coming back in here to say, I realized I was wrong when I said that this is often the case with when you're working with young people and when you're leading younger people, students or teenagers or whatever. Because you know what? We see this all the time that there are groups of people who are in charge, who are making rules, making laws, and we expect them to be leading people well. And instead, they refuse to hold others accountable for their actions. They refuse to say this is unacceptable. They refuse to say you did something that was not okay, and there are accountability structures and there are consequences for this. Doesn't even have to be punitive. It can simply be there are consequences and you are going to feel them. This is what has come to my mind as I re-listen to my own words later and realize I was not thinking broadly enough about this. We have buddy leaders all around us. And they're far more concerned with the wrong person in a situation. They're concerned with not hurting or harming or seeming to come down too strongly on the person who perpetuated the action. And what that does instead is it harms either the victims or it harms bystanders. It harms the rest of us. That's a buddy leader. What not to be. So your challenge for today as we wrap up is I'd really like you to think about have you witnessed a buddy leader? Have you been a buddy leader? I think slipping into a buddy leader is a very easy thing to do in certain situations, absolutely. So ask yourself, when have I seen this? Have I been this? And also think about repercussions. If you witnessed a buddy leader or if you were yourself a buddy leader, was there an action, was there a situation that you didn't take action to provide consequences or accountability and it came back to bite you in the butt? Did that happen? Did that happen in your organization, on your team, whatever? Did you see that? Super curious. So that's it for today. If you're listening on YouTube, please feel free to use the comment section there to leave a question or a comment. We'd love to see it. You can find us on Instagram at Unleaderly Podcast, no parentheses, no punctuation, all one word. And you can also find us on LinkedIn. Big thanks as always to Lilia Keys for our intro and outro music.