The tale of Fred and Barney (Equipping leaders vs Visionaries)

Welcome to (un)leaderly, the podcast that looks at the world through an atypical leadership perspective. In this episode, host Barbara Iverson continues the series on non-canonical leadership types by looking at what she calls Equipping Leaders, and especially comparing them to Visionary types. She tells the story of a company she helped get started and the two different men leading the project, one a Barney, one a Fred. Tune in to hear which is which.

Barbara tells stories from her life and looks at the world through an atypical leadership perspective. Every week she offers a challenge or task for listeners, to prompt reflection or growth. This podcast is the perfect listen for someone who feels like they don't quite fit to the typical leadership profile. 

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Transcript

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Hello and welcome to Unleaderly, the podcast that looks at the world through an atypical leadership perspective. My name is Barbara Iverson. I am your host, and today we are continuing the series of leader types that you won't find in the canon. Meaning, if you try to search for leadership styles or types of leaders, you will find things like authoritarian, coach, servant, laissez faire. This is not one of those. So the first in the series was Buddy Leaders. This one I'm calling the equipping leader. This was in the States in Northern California. I was part of starting a company. Friend of mine had had an idea for a company for a long time, and he finally was getting it off the ground. My friend's name is Fred, not his real name. Fred had had this idea for a long time and had been sort of mulling it over. He didn't really have the money and he was working a different job, but he finally got to the place where he found someone who wanted to start this company with him and was going to provide a lot of the money. So these two decided to partner together and they were looking for people to get started with them. And Fred came to me and he said, you know, for some people, I'm going to do a soft sale with them, but for you, it's a hard sale. I really want you to be part of this with me. And I said, Great, I want to do this too. I had just come back from spending some time in Prague teaching English and was kind of looking for something to do. And this was a great fit. So I said, Yeah, I want to join you. So there were tons of people that they had found through their contacts, through their networks, people who were really interested in being part of starting this company with them. So it was great. They definitely had already this kind of core group of people who would get it started. And I remember, so it was Fred, and the other one was Barney, not his real name. Barney was a super likable guy. And like I said, he was the one who was bringing the money with him. So he had a bunch of people that he knew, and there were there wasn't actually a lot of crossover. Like Fred and Barney had different networking groups. They knew different people, which was cool because it made the group of people who were interested in being part of this startup, it made them diverse and and from a wide range of backgrounds. Cool. Barney was really likable, funny guy, really kind. He seemed great. And as we were getting started, we would have these meetings, and I realized Barney is a visionary. Barney is the kind of guy who has ideas and likes to get people charged up and likes to talk about where we could be in a year, in five years, in ten years, and people are like, yeah. If you've listened to the podcast about to the episode about vulnerability, you know that I have worked with more than one person who is like this. And I will forever come back to visionary leaders tend to be just that. And we put ourselves in quite a pickle when we think that because someone is visionary or can communicate vision well, that they're a great leader. Because I need to tell you right now, Barney was not a good leader. He was a great visionary and could talk about it. But what started happening was we would leave these meetings thinking, okay, so we've talked about all this stuff, but like who's doing what? Some of the titles were not really clear. It was really messy. And people didn't feel like they had the authority to just start making decisions and running with things. So there were ideas being thrown around, and Barney had money that he was bringing into it, but we felt really stuck. And then there was Fred, who had his own issues because he was not bringing as much money as Barney was, which really threw their partnership off quite a bit. I know that now. At the time, I thought, hey, these two really they want to start a company that is, they've got similar ideas, they've got similar values and kind of mission idea about where they want this to go. And that's great. And maybe that's enough. Well, it's not. But at the time, I didn't know that. I'm sure other people did, but all I could see was here we are, ready to go. And yet, why do I always feel so stuck? Why does it always feel like we're sort of like pedaling on a stationary bike and we're not going anywhere? What is happening here? And I started to see that what was really happening is that Barney was gathering people around him who, again, he was super likable. He was a funny, kind man. So a lot of people liked to be around him and thought, hey, this is cool. This is fun. We can, well, but then it would all sort of fizzle out. And everybody was like, are we gonna, are we gonna do anything? Is this gonna actually get started? Or are we just gonna talk about it? Weird. And that was incredibly frustrating because we had these this whole group of people who had talent, expertise, know-how, and could have, could have really gotten some stuff done if somebody had said, okay, we're gonna finance this. Here's your budget, go do it. You're gonna, I think you're gonna be great at doing this. Here's your budget, go do it. And what I realized later was that was actually who Fred was. That was the kind of leader Fred was. But in this situation, his hands were tied because I started to watch what was happening between Fred and Barney. Actually, not between the two of them, but how they interacted with people. And what I saw Fred doing was observing people, and through his observations, he then would go to them and say, I see this in you. I think you're really good at it. And I want, I want you to run with it. So I'm gonna give you this responsibility. I want you to do this. I want you to take over HR type stuff. And whatever you need to do, let me know. I'll get you what you need. We'll get you a budget for it. I think that's what, I think that's what you should be doing because I see these qualities in you that I think you're gonna be happiest here, and I think you're gonna use your strengths the most often here. And Fred was right at least 90% of the time. And it really was a superpower of his. It really is. He's still, he's still around. Fred's superpower is being able to watch people and actually identify their superpowers, whether they realize it already or not. He's actually great at telling people, hey, I see that you're really good at this thing, when their response is often, uh, really? Because they just didn't see it in themselves. But Fred sees it in them. And so he tells them about it and it gives them the space to act. Not everybody does, but he's the kind of leader who he's not a visionary. He's not the kind of guy who's gonna rally a ton of people around him because he can talk so eloquently about his ideas for five years from now. But he can get in the trenches with you, get his hands dirty, and be observing you the whole time, and then pinpoint that thing that he knows is what makes you tick and is what you're really good at, and is what you need to be doing. And then he finds the spaces for those people to start doing that thing. It's absolutely incredible. It produces so much joy and delight in people when they discover these things. How amazing is it to have somebody tell you, I think you are amazing at this, and I'm going to figure out how to give you space where you can both do that thing, develop it, and share it with the rest of us. Because isn't that what the fun of having skills and talents and gifts? Isn't that what the fun of it is? Using it. You don't want to just have something amazing about who you are and stick it on a shelf and never take it down and and let it be used. It's not meant for that. So Fred, Fred's amazing like that. And I always wonder why this kind of quality isn't talked about more and isn't more sought after in leaders. And I think one of the reasons is it's kind of a quiet skill. It's kind of a quiet gift because it takes time, takes time to observe, takes time to think and reflect, and it also takes time to convince someone sometimes of what that superpower or skill that they have is. Not everybody can hear it right away. Say you're somebody that Fred watches you and says, I think you're really gifted at speaking and convincing people of things. You're very persuasive. If you don't believe him, you're not gonna immediately go, oh, really? Cool. All right. Give me, give me a space and I will go speak in it. The person that you tell might not believe you for the longest time that that's the case. And but then they'll also probably need a bit of training, they'll need some support along the way. I mean, it could be thought of as somewhat similar to a coaching type of leader. When people are in coaching situations, like as a coaching leader, they're not usually there, or it's not usually stressed that they're the ones identifying the skills or gifts of their people. It's more about developing them. And those really are two different things. I mean, hopefully they go together, but that ability to identify is, I think, something, something else. Because someone telling you I want to develop in this area, okay, great, let's do that. Let's figure it out. But if somebody comes to you and says, I have no idea what I'm good at, I don't know, I don't know which direction I should go in, that takes observation, that takes time together, that takes reflection also to figure out. And I'm thinking back, I I've I've rarely had other leaders in my life or that I've worked with similar to Fred, which I think is really sad. Like I said, it's really underrated, and I don't think it's talked about very much. This this leader who identifies, leader who equips. He is so outward focused. He's so in the people around him and making sure that they know something about themselves. Like it's it's truly remarkable. And I hope that everybody has a chance to encounter a leader like Fred at some point in their lives. Because I think for many people, it is really life-changing to have somebody say to you, hey, this is something I see in you, and I want to help you develop it and at the very least give you space to use it and give you the authority to do something with it. Because really that was the difference between Fred and Barney. Barney was the fun, funny visionary guy that had stuff to say and ways to lead people toward a goal, but at the same time, he didn't really know how to actually lead people toward a goal. He just knew how to talk about it. And I think that's it's a it's one of the traps of visionaries, I think, that very few of them have accountability structures built up around them to make sure that they follow through on things that they start. They have executive officers and operations people who make sure that whatever they've said gets done. And if you've got a really great team around you that can do that, fantastic. Then then that that can really work. But in those smaller environments, or for people who don't recognize that they don't have those gifts or those skills and they don't want to do it themselves, or they can't do it themselves, but they don't have people around them doing it either, that's a bit problematic. And that's when you become all talk and no action. That's when you become like Barney, who people like and want to be around, but who figure out eventually, oh, this is not fun. This is like pulling teeth. We we keep talking and talking and talking, and I'm so tired of talking. Can we just do something, please? So let's not be Barney. Let's be Fred, who not only is great at identifying the things that people around him are good at, but actually equips them and gives them space, gives them opportunities and doesn't just talk about it, but actually makes stuff happen so that they can practice and build those muscles of whatever skill that is that really can become an absolute superpower. But not everybody's superpowers just sort of appear. Often they really have to be developed, they have to be honed. You gotta spend some time on them. You gotta build those muscles. You might be great at kung fu, but you probably have to practice a lot. You might have some natural born skills or abilities that help you, but you still have to work really hard to become a kung fu master. Yeah. So your challenge for today, who are you? Are you a Fred who sees people and equips them? Or are you a Barney who is a visionary who can talk a lot, but not really equip people or help people to get things going? Do you share authority? Do you give it away? Do you make sure that people can do things, or do you hold it for yourself because you just want to talk about it? I think we need to be honest with ourselves. I think it's really easy to be a Barney. I think it's really something you have to work at to be a Fred. I don't think it's necessarily difficult because I think once you start doing it, once you start looking at your team and saying to yourself, I want to identify what this person is great at that they may or may not already know. So I want to either confirm it for them or reveal it to them. Once you start thinking like that, I I think it you recognize how fun it is, and I think you start to want more of it. I think it, I think it really feeds itself, and I think that's a really good thing. I think that it's something we have to maybe push ourselves to do because we have to really look at other people. We have to step outside of ourselves. Fred's superpower was not Fred. It wasn't something that he did so much as what he helped others do. I mean, it was something, it is something that Fred does and it's who he is, but it's so outward focused that it's easy to overlook. And I think as leaders, we tend to want to look at ourselves and develop ourselves, and we forget that part of our job as leaders, as managers, is to be developing our people. And this identifying their superpowers, revealing it to them or confirming it to them, this is massive in developing your people. So who are you? And who do you want to be? Because if you want to be Barney, hey, go for it. Be that visionary. But if you're gonna be that visionary, please have amazing executives and operations people around you to actually get stuff done. Or you can be Fred and identify those amazing things about the people around you and then actually give them space to develop them. Amazing. I want to be Fred. Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you have a great week. You can leave a comment if you're watching or listening on YouTube. You can find us on Instagram at unleaderly podcast, no parentheses, no punctuation, all one word on Instagram. You can find us on LinkedIn, and I look forward to hearing from you. I'm curious, are you a Fred or are you a Barney? And which one do you want to be? Whichever one you want to be, own it. Big thanks as always to Lilia Keys for our intro and outro music.