The High Road: Leading with Integrity in Every Room

Integrity isn’t situational—it’s a choice. In this episode, Apostle Sam Wagner of New Foundation Church International in Charlotte, NC, shares how a lifetime of service has shaped his unwavering commitment to doing what’s right, even when it’s not popular. A conversation about courage, calling, and the kind of leadership that leaves a lasting impact.

Transcript

Warning Against Misusing Authority

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Do not put words in my mouth using my position to take advantage of God's people. Don't ever do that. People who know me, who've been around me long enough, know that I am consistent. I'm honest. I'm loving. I want the best for you because I want to come and celebrate with you. In fact, when the Lord manifests something for you, and if the Lord used me, if He didn't use me, let me know. I'll come and celebrate with you. I'll drink a glass of Kool-Aid with you. I'll celebrate with you all day long. But don't take my position and use me to get to advance what you're trying to do at the expense of my name. I can't stand when somebody do that.

Show Purpose And Four Pillars

SPEAKER_02 1:14

I'm your host and founder of Gobi Marketing Group, Loanne Lake. In each episode, I sit down with leaders and executives from around the country who are walking their talk and who understand that branding is behavior, it's culture, it's customer service, it's the way their business operates, it treats its customers, and this is how and it's how leaders lead both inside their organizations and in the community. To do so, we explore four pillars. They're called grounded identity, what makes your brand authentic, owned narrative, what's your brand story and how do you tell it? Brand in action, how do you as a leader instill your brand values in your people, in your work, and in your life? And influence with integrity, which we'll be talking about today, which is how do you as a leader show up publicly and ethically, even when it's not popular? These are conversations about what it takes to build trust, inspire your teams, and to create meaningful impact in today's world. So whether you're leading a company, a nonprofit, or a movement, this show will help you to reconnect with why you are doing the work that you do as a leader, how it connects to who you are, and how you show up with intention in every space you occupy. So let's get started. Today,

Meet Apostle Sam Wagner

SPEAKER_02 2:35

my guest is Apostle Sam Wagner, who is the founding pastor of New Foundation Church International based in Charlotte, North Carolina. The church also has an international reach beyond the United States. And I have to use this disclaimer that this is the church that I attend. Apostle Wagner is a former Marine and retired North Carolina state trooper. He and his wife, Dr. Riga Wagner, founded New Foundation Church International 16 years ago with a mission of bringing people to Christ. And as a member of his church, I can genuinely say that he walks his talk regardless of who's in the room. Apostle Wagner has spent his entire career in roles that require integrity. Not just because it sounds good, but because lives literally depended on it. And today we're going to hear from him as he talks about why he would choose to take the high road, not because it's easy, but because it's required for him to be an effective vessel for his work as a spiritual leader. So let's give a warm welcome to Apostle Sam Wagner. Apostle Wagner. Hi, how are you? Thanks for joining me today.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Greaties, I'm glad for the invitation. I'm honored to be here.

SPEAKER_02 3:52

Well, we're honored to have you. Um so please tell our guests a little bit about yourself that I may not have covered when in my introduction. Uh, for instance, where is home for you? Where were you from originally?

From Marines To State Trooper

SPEAKER_01 4:07

I'm from a little town here in North Carolina called Winston, Salem, North Carolina, where they make the Winstons and the Salem cigarettes. But that's where I grew up at. Um left home at the age of 17, uh, enlisted in the United States Marine Corps. And um, from there, I I kind of got my exposure from the military, uh, being able to travel the world and eventually coming back home five years later to uh apply with the North Carolina State Highway Patrol and serving with the State Patrol for 16 years, retiring early as a sergeant with the North Carolina Highway Patrol stationed all over the state of North Carolina. So when I say I've had the cultural diversity experience from the military to the state highway patrol, I believe I was prepared for ministry uh way before I even thought about ministry.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Wow. And so 16 years as a state trooper and now 16 years serving as a pastor of your own church. That's that's that must be your number.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

And it must be.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

How did you go from serving in the Marines to law enforcement and then into pastoral life?

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Well, I always wanted to go in the military because my father was a career military man. He did 37 years in the United States Army. At first, I was going to go into the Army, but me and the recruiter had some type of a disagreement, and I turned my focus and attention on to the Marines. And so the Marines was a little bit more what I was looking for. And so my uncle, my dad's brother, is also a retired Marine veteran, uh serving 23 years in the Marine Corps. I decided to go in the Marines because I felt like I wanted a little bit more of a challenge, and it challenged me. It stretched my capacity beyond what I thought I was capable of doing. And so after serving in the Marines, it's almost like you know when it's time to let something go. And when when when I came to the end of my first um um enlistment uh contract, I knew I wanted to do uh the State Highway Patrol. But you know you have you have people who give you all these type of misnomers about an organization, and it's really is not to encourage you, it's really to discourage you from even making an attempt to uh apply. And so I didn't listen to those misnomers. I went on ahead and applied and got in on my first uh uh go-round, and uh I was excited because this is something I wanted to do prior to going into Marines. I thought that I needed the Marine Corps experience to become a state trooper. And even though the Highway Patrol in North Carolina is a paramilitary organization, from what my mother instilled into me as well as the Marine Corps, it helped me to be able to uh become a part of the Highway Patrol's uh family culture. And I successfully did 16 years, uh, had high regard marks as far as conduct, uh behavior, uh as far as uh as a trooper, as well as becoming a supervisor. I was a supervisor in my last uh six years on the patrol, and um it really prepared me for full-time ministry.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Well, that's wonderful. And I thank you for sharing that journey because we don't often get to hear how a pastor became a pastor. Most times, if you find someone, especially with the internet, they've already become established by the time we learn about them. So thank you for that. And can you tell us a little bit more about New Foundation Church International and what what the mission of the ministry is and really what what drives

The Call And Founding New Foundation

SPEAKER_02 7:48

you? What is the core of the of the ministry?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Well, first of all, New Foundation Church, um, I I received a word from the Lord. Uh, I had my encounter with God in October of 2000, and that's when he was calling me to ministry. Now, keep in mind that was October 2000. You're talking about almost 25 and a half years ago. But God took me through a season of preparation, first of all, to help me to understand his word. Um, my my process is gonna be different than anybody else's process. All of our processes that God gives us are unique and uniquely defined by him. And so he said, I want you to eat of my word, uh, learn of me. And he says, I will build you up and I release you in due season. Well, that due season for my first message was five years later. I started ministering in various different denominations, way before I even thought about starting New Foundation Church. New Foundation Church was not birthed until January 2010. But in the summer of June of 2009, I was at a faith convention in Atlanta, and the Lord spoke to me while I was at that convention. He said, son, prepare for full-time ministry. And when I heard the word, I said, okay, Lord, I'm I'm I thought I was already preparing. He said, No, son, prepare for full-time ministry. I need for you to go and tell your pastor that you are preparing for full-time ministry so that he can teach you on how to become a pastor. And so after serving under another uh man's leadership for 10 years, God was preparing me for my own. So then I turned around, met with my pastor, uh, told him all the things that God was telling me. Make a long story short, I didn't get the help that I needed from him. I ended up pursuing the word of God in prayer, and and and after much prayer, the Lord spoke to me and said, now it's time for you to separate because I don't need you taking upon another man's vision on what I'm getting ready to start in you. And so all all I know is this is that December 31st, which was New Year's Eve night, I stayed at home with my family, prayed with my family coming into the new year of 20 uh 10. And then the Lord says, I need for you to start New Foundation Church on January 10th, which is ironically my daughter's birthday, Maya. My daughter, my oldest daughter, Maya, is on January 10th. And he said, You're gonna base your church upon the word of God of Luke 6.48. And when you read Luke 6.48, it says, When a man who dig deep and build his foundation upon the rock, that when the storms arose and the waves beat vehemently against that house, it shook it not. He said, This is what you're gonna help establish within my children, a new foundation. And the Lord says, the new foundation must always be centered upon Christ. It can't be centered on anything else. He said, if you shift the focus away from Christ, you begin to cause your foundation to deteriorate. And that always stuck with me. And so I said, Okay, Lord, how am I gonna how okay? I I got the name, I got, I got the vision. Okay, what I need to do. He said, go to South Charlotte and look for a location. I'm gonna tell y'all right now, I was disobedient because we we had an office. Me and my wife had an office here in Charlotte for our home care business, which was actually in the uptown Charlotte area or Dealworth area. And so I said, you know what? We'll just have church services in our conference room because we had a pretty good-sized conference room that could probably sit, I would probably see maybe 50 people. I said, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna have services there. Now keep in mind the Lord said you need to go to Southwest Charlotte. That's not Dealworth. I I was I was planning our services there, and the whole heating unit went out in the building. So therefore, there was no heat in the building, and the landlord said he didn't know how how long it's gonna take to get the uh heat back on, but it was not gonna be on by Sunday, and I began to panic. And the Lord said, Why are you panicking when I told you specifically to go to Southwest Charlotte? So I had to go out and start searching, and then we found a hotel that will accommodate our services. We started out in the uh Homewood Suites Hotel right there on Yorkmont Road. Our first service, we had 56 people in attendance. Um, the six included me and my family and uh friends who believed in the call of God on my life. And I started in that conference room, and and believe it or not, Loanne, I preached for two hours. The service, and I'm not talking about the service was two hours. I'm talking about I preached. Your sermon was two hours. The sermon was two hours long, and nobody moved. And I remember one of my friends, he told me, he said, he's I'm a Baptist boy. He said, but I never said in church for two hours. He said, but everything that you said resonated with me, and it's making me making me have to examine myself because I thought my walk was in a sure place. He said, but after hearing what you said today, he said, I'm not so sure. I gotta repent and get back into my faith. And so needless to say, after that first service, second service, we were back down to uh six people, counting myself and even including my mom. My mom was one of the uh first members that started New Foundation Church. And it was almost discouraging to me that you have all those people on the first Sunday.

SPEAKER_02 13:32

Thursday, yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

And then the second Sunday, you just got your family. You're looking at your family, and you know all of these empty chairs. And I remember the Lord said this to me, He said, Son, you're preaching to me. I'm allowing you to preach to my people. He said, So don't look at the empty chairs and become discouraged. Think about what I'm telling you and preach as if the whole room was filled with people and the nations are hearing you. And that's what shifted my focus to keep me encouraged so that I wouldn't become discouraged because nobody was coming in in the doors uh each and every week. But I did that consistently in that hotel room for one year before we moved to our other locations.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Well, you one, wow, two, you touch on something very important. And because this is a podcast that focuses on leadership and how they represent their organization, someone needed to hear that because you go from a room that's almost full to six people, and you you if you weren't confident that this is what you were supposed to be doing, you would have changed, you would have wavered and wondered, well, did I

Keeping Ego Out Of Ministry

SPEAKER_02 14:44

make a mistake? Did I do the wrong thing? Are people not going to come? You know, it would start to mess with your self-esteem if you weren't rooted in what you were called to do. And I think that's a perfect segue because sometimes when we're in an organization where we're looking to our leadership to have a certain stance and a certain level of knowing, I think that's what helps to helps you to have integrity because you believe in what you're doing and then you operate from that from that standpoint. So with that, my next question would be based on the roles that you've had, you know, how do you ensure that your authority doesn't overshadow your integrity, especially now that you're as a pastor, as someone responsible for the spiritual lives of the people that you're you're um leading, how do you make sure that that Sam's ego doesn't get in the way of that?

SPEAKER_01 15:44

I'm glad you asked me that. I'm gonna I'm gonna share this story with you, and I don't share it much, but um that first year of 2010, um February, which would be the second month, I heard God, He woke me up one morning, and He always have He always has a reason to wake me up at 3 30 in the morning. 3 30 is my my time of waking up for some reason. But that morning I got up at 3 30 and uh I heard the Lord say, He said, Son, he said, My power has increased on your life. He said, utilize it to service the needs of my people and also glorify me. And I was like, Okay, Lord, yes, Lord. But then he said, Do not let the people make you out to be a God. That scared the daylights out of me. I said, Lord, what do you mean, make a God out of me? He said, They will start worshiping you by overextending the honor to you instead of giving that honor to me. He said, because you're gonna say things and it's gonna come to pass. They're gonna see signs and wonders. He said, always acknowledge me in all of your ways and everything you do. He said, and I will be pleased. He said, at the end of the day, it's not about pleasing the people, it's not about pleasing yourself, it's about pleasing me. He said, if you please me, he said, you will have unlimited uh uh ability with my power. He said, I can move and flow through a vessel that is humble in every way. So I'm mindful every time if I'm sitting before two people, I'm talking to an individual, room, auditorium, stadium, it don't matter. I'm mindful of those words that I heard from his heart because I don't want to disappoint his heart. There's times that you'll find yourself wanting to shift to try to try to take credit or get the kudos for yourself, but you better be mindful, you better keep that word seared in your consciousness and forever inscribed on your heart because one thing about the Lord, the Lord doesn't change. But we oftentimes change when we want to try to control what has been given unto us. And when you do this, that's when you start hurting people. And I never want to hurt people. I don't, I'm not going to please everybody, but I don't want ever want to intentionally hurt somebody because if I intentionally hurt somebody, number one, I lost sight of what the Lord said. Number two, I'm no longer serving the Lord. Number three, I'm a disservice to the body of Christ, and I'm now injuring God's people. And that's what's happened across the uh the country and around the world that when we come up with this term, church hurt, that many have been hurt by leaders because they thought about more about themselves. When you become a leader in the body of Christ, you have to have a selfless mentality. You have to make sure humility is your focus, and you must definitely stay obedient to God's instructions. And don't add something to God's word. Don't take nothing away from his word. Stick with his word because his word was proven to be true long before we came in existence, and it'll still be proven as true long after we exit out of this life, going into the next life, wherever that next life may be. And so that's what I've done. I always keep God's word as as focused on my in my eyes and my heart in my heart when I'm when I'm when I'm when I'm dealing with God's people because I don't want to do anything that's outside his will. And you got to stay humble about it. You got to stay in a humble position. Humility is not a is not a um a weak position, it's actually one of the strongest positions you can ever have in the body of Christ. And this is something I'm always mindful of.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Well, I thank you for going deep on that. And, you know, for some who are listening to this podcast, because some people will find it on YouTube, some people will listen to the audio, they may wonder, well, what does a business podcast have to do with faith? Why is there a pastor in this role? But it's still an organization, a nonprofit organization that's being run by people and by leadership. And so I thought it was important to have all perspectives. And as we talk about influencing with integrity, you know, in the age of social media, we see a lot of people who are influencing behavior, thought, news, life, death, like everything. But whether or not they have a good character still remains to be seen. And I thought it was very important to bring this into the conversation on branding because there have been a number of corporate leaders who have destroyed the reputation of their companies because they made some poor choices in their personal lives, and they're feeling the ramifications of that today. And I I feel this is a very necessary conversation right now in the time that we're in.

When Integrity Costs Influence

SPEAKER_02 20:42

So can you share a time when doing the right thing may have cost you your influence or your acceptance by others because people didn't agree with your stance?

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yes, and and without revealing the ministry, I was actually a part of an organization some years ago. And um I was pretty much told to stand down on what I believed to be the absolute truth. Number one, I didn't have to defend myself in this situation because I knew eventually God was going to work everything out and point out where the root issue was and cleared my name. I was really believing for the Lord to vindicate me because right now I was one that was being accused. And so what I had to do was I followed everything that God told me to do. The Lord says, separate. He said, when folks ask you where you are, they say you're doing my business. Don't go into trying to feed them because they're gonna take that back as fuel and create a false narrative about you. And I said, okay, Lord, so for nine years, I separated myself from this organizational fellowship. But within that nine years, the truth actually came out and found out. That I was being used as a as a pawn. And the backlash or the hostility that I faced in those nine years, it went right back to the sender who started it. And so I just stood firm on what God's word said. It not only vindicated my name with that organization, but it showed that I was truly a man under great persecution, under attack, under fire, because I couldn't be controlled by the sayings or the doings of one man. I refuse to allow a man to try to usurp the word of God to manipulate me. And a lot of folks are under manipulation because they're being more uh uh showing allegiance to man, which they think that's honor, but that's really idolatry. And when you're in an idolatrous relationship, you're not serving the Lord with a pure heart. And so I want to make sure that everything that I do in life, not to say I'm not accountable to uh uh a pastor, because I have a pastor, so I have someone covering my life. I'm not out here trying to be a rogue and doing things on my own, right? But I want to make sure that my life is covered as I cover God's people. As I speak to God's people, I'm telling them to do something that I'm doing. I'm not telling you to do anything that I that the word of God, I don't give my my opinions, my opinion and my two bits of sense don't mean nothing. I'm gonna give you what the word of God says because this is what helps me to live, because people look at me and say, you make the job look easy. It's only because I've entered into a place of rest. When you've entered into to strive and labor to enter into a place of rest, like it mentions in Hebrews 4, where it talks about the rest of God from verse 1 to 11. That means I'm ceasing from doing things completely my way. It's got to be the Lord's will. Lord, what's what is your will? Is oftentimes the question we ask, find it in the word. Follow the word. As you follow the word, the word of God is going to develop you to have that godly character that you will want to make sure that you keep yourself in an integrity stance and not deviate over the way you're not so trustworthy and people can't really depend on you. I just want to be a vessel that God can use and and people are blessed by what he's placed in my life. And at the end of the day, I want to hear him say, Well done, thy good and faithful servant. Enter into the joys of the Lord. That's all I'm striving to hear. I thank God for those who have encouraged me along the way. I thank God for those who are in the ministry now that are here to help me serve, to help myself and my wife with the vision of the church. It is a blessing to have people who know how to walk in one accord, in unity, and the fellowship of the faith. It's a great thing because sometimes you could carry the weight of the burden of the organization by yourself, and you'd be like, Lord, when are you gonna send me some ample help to help me to carry this thing? Because I can't do this by myself. And it's like over the years, as as I've been tested in faithfulness, are you gonna come when it's raining? Are you gonna come when it's snow on the ground? Are you gonna do my bidding regardless of what the conditions are in life? Are you gonna do it? And I have not let go of the plow. I've kept my eyes on what the Lord told me over 26, almost 26, be 26 years in October. I have held fast to what he's saying. And even though there's times I want to quit, give up, and walk away from it because of frustration. I am human, I'm not superhuman. God's grace is what gives me the ability to do supernatural things, but without God's grace, I'm nothing. And so I keep my mind focused on that. But there are times that I do get discouraged. There are times where I'm flustered and frustrated, but I have to go back to be mindful of what he said to ref for refresh myself. And I tell you what, that's what's helped me to stay on point. Because one of the worst things you can do in this day and age is to have any type of following, whether it's small, medium, or large, if you show any sign of weakness as a weak leader, you're gonna become a liability and no longer be an asset to lead God's people. And that's something I don't want to do.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

Well, I I agree with that. And you know, one of the questions I was going to ask, but I think you just answered was how do you model influence that invites people to trust you instead of demanding that they follow you? And you just said it, it's your humility. And I think that's a key thing that's that's that leaders need to hear. Like it's one thing to be responsible for an organization or a brand or people who are drawn to you, but are you doing so responsibly? And are you doing it in a way that they will feel good about themselves when they are outside of your presence, or does it make people start to to look down on on themselves or the the way their life might be shaping up, or does it create envy? I think that's an important thing to to highlight.

Letting Go Of A Mastered Identity

SPEAKER_02 27:09

For we're gonna shift now to some about the the work that you do and and how it relates um in your your role as a pastor. So, how did your identity evolve? Like you didn't just wake up one day and say, Okay, yes, I heard from God, now I'm going to start a church. There had to be a process for you to become the man of God you are today, to become the spiritual leader that other pastors look to. Was there something you had to unlearn that was natural to you as a behavior for you to become a more humble leader?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Well, I think I'm gonna say this. I think what happens is you have to learn to let go of something that you have mastered. And and one of the things I I have mastered, I had mastered being a Marine, uh, got out of the Marine Corps honorable discharge, uh served the Corps to the fullest. But then when I became a trooper, I mastered that and I was in the process of being promoted, and I had to walk away from all that. I had to let all that go. When I heard the instructions from the Lord, it's now time to lay down the hat, to take off the badge, and prepare for full-time ministry. Me, I'm gonna ask questions, okay, Lord, what what what what time frame are you talking about letting go? Because, like I said, I was getting ready to be promoted again. And the Lord's like, no, this is not part of my plans for your life. And so me and my wife was in Houston, Texas, attending a conference, and I heard him, he said, prepare for full-time ministry. And I said, Okay, Lord, uh, what do you want me to do? He said, When you get back, tell them March 31st, which is today.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

Wow, look at that. March 31st. March 31st, 2026, for those that see this later.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

Listen, March 31st, 2011 is when the Lord told me is my last day as a state trooper in North Carolina. Wow. And so this was in February of 2011. So when I got back to the office, I immediately put in my paperwork for early retirement. Of course, a lot of um folks wanted to talk me out of retiring because they were like, man, you you fit in the organization so well. You you you're a likable guy, you're down the earth. I said, but I gotta go and do what the Lord is calling me to do. And I will never forget the last day when I when I walked in my captain's office, and and I and I I think the world of Captain David Allen, uh, Dave Allen, who uh was my captain at the time, who's now uh sits on the county commission or city council down in uh uh Shelby area or Kings Mountain area somewhere. But I remember him telling me, he said, Sam, he said, Sergeant Wagner, he said, you're receiving a promotion today that is no, that is not on the Highway Patrol's promotion scale. And he was saying this with tears in his eye. Now here I am, I'm the preacher. I'm thinking I'm going into office, I'm gonna pray for my captain and bless the highway patrol, but no, the tables turned. He turned around and prayed for me. He prayed for me and blessed me and said, I truly believe that as the Highway Patrol is losing a great man today, the kingdom of God is getting a man positioned for the work of ministry. And those words still resonate to me today because, like I said, as a sergeant on the highway patrol and my captain telling me these words, now I'm in a whole different uh rank classification in the kingdom of God as a pastor. Okay, Lord, how do I how do I uh uh uh model the pastor that you said you give it unto your people out of your own heart, like he said in Jeremiah 3.15. And he says, embody Christ. He said, No Christ. When you know you know Christ, you'll know how to tend to my people. And so what I did was I studied, I studied all the books of the Bible, all 66 books, back and forth, different translations. I know more than 12 different translations of the Bible. So that's why you may hear me and my message. I'll be quoting so many, I'll quote the scripture, but I can say it in so many different various translations because I read those translations because they they they they spoke volumes to me. And so the Lord developed me. He said, as long as you feed my people my word, I will perform my word. So that's why I've lost sight. When I came into this role as pastor, I had to let go of my livelihood with the patrol because that was income coming into our house. But but just so you know, God had helped me. My wife started a business uh um six years prior, a home health care business that was able to compensate the income that I was going to lose from the patrol because I couldn't draw my retirement because I was 37 years old, getting ready to turn 38. And so the Lord, I had to freeze my retirement until I turned 50 to start drawing it, which I started drawing my retirement here in the last couple years. But but during that time, I really had to trust the Lord because I wasn't on someone else's clock, I wasn't uh uh responding to these different calls and being responsible for 20 something five plus troopers. It was now I've got I gotta learn how to manage myself and manage my family. That's why I believe the church didn't grow for the years that I didn't have many people attending regularly, because I had to really focus on my family. And when I when I ministered to my wife and and my my daughter, my and my three sons and my mother, then that's when the Lord started adding people to the body because now I'm I'm I've I've learned how to master my own household, I learned how to govern his church, and now he is adding people because I'm uplifting his name, I'm not running out here asking nobody to preach. I didn't hand out business cards. If you need somebody to preach, I have never asked anyone period in ministry time, would you have me to come preach? No, I believe it's by invitation only. If they want you to come, if they need your gift, they'll request for you to come. So I don't ask people to preach. I just believe that if you stay focused on what God, the God-given assignment, and don't get distracted with what others are doing because those others who are doing what they're doing, they got the grace to do that. I don't have the grace to do that. My grace assignment is what's in front of me, and so I wasn't running around trying to be an itinerant preacher. I wanted to stay focused on New Foundation Church and teach to whomever the Lord was sending through the doors. And as you know, now 16 years later, God has added hundreds of people to the fold that I minister weekly, not just say in the house, but even online and even outside of the country. And so I'm very grateful for what the Lord has placed under my charge. I'm not trying to be bigger than who I am. I want to be exactly where God needs for me to be because it's not about me. I just want to hear them words. Well done. That's all I'm I'm striving for right now. I'm not trying to strive for more money, I'm not trying to strive for more people, I'm not even trying to strive uh um to make a name for myself because I believe it's the Lord that'll give you the good name and and show that you are a person that can be trusted, especially when he has his favor on you. And so I tell you what, since being in this position, it is from the Marine Corps, which is no joke, Howard Patrol is a very serious job, but neither of those positions can compare to uh being a pastor over God's uh flock. And um I consider it a great honor, and I don't take this position for granted. And I like I said, I don't ever want to operate outside of the will of God. And if I do, because I'm human, if I do, I am quickly to repent, and I will report to those who I know that will restore me. I'm not gonna blow it off like the rules don't apply to me because I'm not above the word of God. Um I'm I'm humble enough to make sure I'm submitted to it. And so, yeah, I just know that what been a part of my success is humility and obedience. When you're willing and obedient to God, you eat the good of the land, what Isaiah 119 talks about.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

And that that's an important lesson. And you said something earlier about letting go of what you've mastered. That stuck to me because that's something I personally have a hard time doing is letting go of a season or letting go of a chapter, even when you know that things are different, but it's so familiar, you know, and and a lot of us don't want to leave our comfort zone. And I think that's an important lesson here about influencing with integrity is one, you have to be vulnerable enough to say, okay, I'm stepping into something I don't know. And even if it is something that you do know, you said you have to be able to lead your household before you could lead other people in a spiritual way. And I think a key takeaway in this conversation is that if you're in a position of influence, you have to make sure that what you're telling people to do in whatever it is, that you're doing that yourself in every area. And if there's something that you're not doing, then you need to examine that within yourself because people won't be able to connect with you as authentically if you're doing it because it's it's trendy or you're trying to procurate your brand, or you know, well, this sounds like what I should be doing because other people are doing it. You really have to live out what you're encouraging people to buy from you or follow you with. So I I thank you for your honesty with that. Um before we close this conversation, I wanted to ask you, what do you, especially now, because we have, I feel like there's a shift in our society where you have some people who who are made of good character, and then you have some who are not, but we see those who are not still benefiting and growing and thriving. What role do you think transparency and good character should play today with leadership in an organization?

Transparency With Boundaries

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Okay, if you are especially in an age of social media, people think that what they're seeing is someone being transparent, but it's often created, it's often set up. So how how much how important is it for leaders to be transparent in to the people who are they're responsible for? And what does that look like for for leaders today? Like how transparent should you be? And if you choose not to be, does that mean you're not walking with integrity?

SPEAKER_01 38:34

Transparency has uh boundaries. Um, and what I mean by that is as long as we stay within the context of the word of God, because the word of God is what our safety is at. If we stay within the counsel of God, people will see that you are truly uh honest and have integrity. They will see that. They'll know that you don't have anything to hide. But I truly believe what's happened with the church today, some of our transparency has overstepped the boundaries of the word of God. And let me give you this example. If there was a sin that took place in the person's life, that person is supposed to go confess that fault to someone he's a he or she's accountable to. That way, that person can begin to uh minister to them, pray for them to cover them, because the Lord says our repentance is not for public uh apology. It's really repentance to him and to those whom you are spiritually accountable to. And then you are to recuse yourself for a season until you're restored to get back to be an effective leader. I think what's happening is we want to say, I did this, and and want to get the public to accept it, but you get more public ridicule or persecution because now you're you're confessing to a people who don't even believe in what you believe in, but you think you need their acceptance to prove to move forward when really you need counselors. You know, my spiritual father, Bishop Steve Haupt, and I have a plethora of other people that I'm accountable to. I will go to them and say, this is where my challenge is. What steps I need to take? It's not that I'm trying to uh um uh cover myself that I won't be found out. No, I'm exposing it, but I'm exposing it to the right people to make sure it doesn't bring uh reproach or blemish to the ministry work itself because oftentimes when we hear somebody who falls short in in error or have some type of moral uh uh failure, we want to throw the whole ministry away. You can't do that. That work has has done um imaginable, unimaginable things and reach in the lives of people. We just want to throw the person away in the ministry and you can't do that. That's all satanic. What we have to do is restore that leader. If that leader is unwilling to be restored, then that leader has no business being the leader anymore. That's that's that's why I truly believe now that if we're gonna if we're gonna live this life of faith, that we're all called and commanded to live, regardless of what your role is in the body of Christ, we gotta know that faith is a reflective act. Meaning that we all live in a glass house when it comes to faith. How how do you act when the camera's on is how you should be acting when the camera's off? Off.

SPEAKER_02 41:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

How are you projecting on on Facebook through your statuses, through your memes, or whatever? How do people see you in public? You see me in public, it's the same way you see me in the pulpit. Because my mantra is this we love you from the parking lot to the pulpit. So I make sure I teach our leaders, our servant leaders, listen, love on the people. They listen, I know they may come in here to hear what the Lord is speaking through me if I'm speaking that Sunday, but you gotta love them in the parking lot when you park in cars, you gotta love them when they come into the um gallery through the greeters, through the ushers. You gotta love on them before they be seated, before they hear worship. You gotta love on them. Why? Because we don't know what they come out, come and bringing with them and what they're going through. However, we know they're coming to hear a message of reconciliation to restore them. And so we we set the worship experience up in the parking lot way before you get in the building. And that's that's the way we teach people here. We we we train because you can't complain about something you don't train. So we train you. This is how you're supposed to be hospitable to people. Make sure you show the love of God in Christ Jesus because this is how I am, and and and I want to say this one

Brand Culture Starts In The Parking Lot

SPEAKER_01 42:54

of the worst things, or one of my pet peeves, and I need all the new foundation church and all of my partner churches or people that know me personally. This is one of my pet peeves, and I need y'all to hear me today. Hear me today. Do not put words in my mouth using my position to take advantage of God's people. Don't ever do that. People who know me, who's been around me long enough, know that I am consistent, I'm honest, I'm loving, I want the bet, I want the best for you because I want to come and celebrate with you. In fact, when the Lord manifests something for you, and if the Lord used me, if he didn't use me, let me know. I'll come and celebrate with you. I'll drink a glass of Kool-Aid with you, I'll celebrate with you all day long. But don't take my position and use me to get to advance what you're trying to do at the expense of my name. I I can't I can't stand when somebody do that because that's not how I am. I don't I don't I don't do drama. I'm a very transparent guy. I believe doing things decently and in order, and I'm a man of excellence. If you come here to this church as well as you know, Loanne, we make sure that this church is spick and span because I'm not doing it just for the people to come and see that this is a very, very clean and prepared house. I'm making sure this house is prepared. If the Lord Himself show up, he'll be pleased and like, son, you really kept up this house. And that's that's what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to do these things as unto the Lord, but sometimes we shift over, try to please people, and that's one of the worst things you can do.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

And so that's just where I'm if I could tie this in for people that are listening, Pastor. And you know, again, for me, my decision to have a person of faith or a spiritual leader on this show is because as a business person, as a professional, I'm at a point where I no longer separate my faith life from my business life because there was a time when that was not really cool to do or acceptable. But something you said that relates both in the faith walk and in business. A brand is not the logo, it's not the icon you wear on your clothes, it's not the building that you're in, it's the way people feel when they experience your product, service, you, your organization. And you said it, it's you know, if somebody comes into the parking lot and someone's grumpy and mean to them, and then they get into the sanctuary and you start talking about God's love and that people who believe in God should treat people a certain way. And they just said, Well, hmm, they just turned up their nose at me and didn't even speak before I got inside, or you know, didn't make me feel welcome. That's not going to mesh. And that person may walk right out of that church and never encounter what they were supposed to because the very first representative of your organization did not hold the standard that you put in place. And that is the whole point of this discussion. It's, I call that pillar brand in action, but it really is the culture that is set by the leadership that should be carried out by the people who represent or who serve as ambassadors of that organization at all times. And similarly to what you said, now if it's not Sunday and you run into those same people in the grocery store, and again, you know, maybe they don't remember you, but if you come up and say, Hey, I attended your church, and then this person is not being very pleasant or Christ-like in their personal time, that can also be a negative reflection. And so I thank you for sharing that and how you instill that in the leadership and in the people who serve under you so that that is carried out on a consistent basis. So before you go, I do this with every guest as I close the segment. It's just called Beyond the Image, and it's a quick series of questions. There are no wrong answers, just the real ones. So I wanted to know what practices keep you grounded so that your influence remains rooted in service rather than self.

Beyond The Image Quick Questions

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Prayer life.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Prayer life.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Without prayer, you are you're a disaster waiting to happen. I'm telling you right now, you cannot do something for the Lord. And I'm not just talking about ministry, I'm talking about business. If God gave you a business, if you don't have a prayer life, you are shipwrecked waiting to happen. So my prayer life is key.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

Okay, and what is one word that people use to describe you consistently?

SPEAKER_00 47:43

Loving.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

Loving. I love that. And what do people often assume about you from the outside looking in that doesn't tell the full story of who you are?

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Sometimes folks are intimidated to approach me because sometimes I have a very serious, serious look on my face.

SPEAKER_02 48:03

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 48:03

And I told y'all in 2025 on working on my face. And you have I have a very serious uh look upon my countenance because some I'm I'm just gonna be transparent. Sometimes I'm in, I'm in, I'm a thinker. I'm always thinking about something. I don't care if I'm in a room with people, it's not that I've lost attention or what's going on, but sometimes I'm thinking about things and processing things through my head. And sometimes I look like I'm looking very serious, or maybe he might be angry.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Unapproachable.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Yes, unapproachable. But no, I'm not like that. I'm really a down-the-earth person. I'm a jokester too. I like to laugh, I like to have a good time, but yeah, most of the times people think that uh I'm too serious to approach, and and uh I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

You're working on that, and we will help people to learn that about you. My last thing for you is how can listeners or those that are watching this on YouTube find New Foundation Church International online?

Where To Find The Church

SPEAKER_01 49:01

Well, we're we're on um on uh YouTube and our and we're on YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, um, LinkedIn, we're on Twitter. Our icon is NFC CLT. That way you can locate us because we just just want to put New Foundation Church because there's a lot, there's on I know there's a there's at least two to three New Foundation Churches that are on the internet. So our icon brand is NFC CLT. That's how you're able to locate, which is New Foundation Church Charlotte. We did that uh, I think five, no, six, six years ago, so that all of our stuff can be uniform the way you'd be able to locate us on the various platforms.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

Okay, and we'll be sure to share that in the post-production so that people can find find the link to follow you. So

Share Subscribe And Closing

SPEAKER_02 49:50

I would like to thank you. It's been an honor to sit on this side of the table with you, Pastor Wagner. And uh, for those that are listening, if this episode spoke to you, please don't keep it to yourself. I encourage you to share it with a leader who might need to hear these nuggets and go back and watch it again. You may hear something the second time that you didn't before. And don't forget to like and subscribe to hear from other leaders as we go beyond the image. Again, I'm your host, Loanne Lake, and I thank you for listening.