Unmuted and Uncompromised: When Integrity Becomes Influence

Civic innovator Christine Edwards Pitkin joins us to explore ethical visibility and what it truly means to show up with integrity. Founder of Civility Localized, she operates at the intersection of government, community, and entrepreneurship, amplifying voices often left out. From TEDx to national recognition, Christine shares how influence is built through trust, consistency, and purpose, especially when the stakes are real.

Transcript

Taking Up Space And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I just take up space. And and what that looks like is I speak. You know, I think that people, again, they can be surprised by what what I choose to say, how I show up to meetings, deciding not to just be a fly on the wall when it comes to meetings and things like that, advocating for myself, um, asking to get paid, asking, you know, having the money conversation early on so that people know where I stand. I think it's so important. Um, and we need to be having those conversations for for women in business all the time so that that we're not afraid to ask for what we're worth and have the money conversation early. Um so yeah, I just I show up and I say, I speak, you know. I don't want to be the one that's like, um, what did they say? Seen and not heard.

Branding As Behavior And Integrity

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Welcome to Going Beyond the Image, a podcast about how leaders live their brand. I'm your host and founder of Gobi Marketing Group Loanne Lake. In each episode, I sit down with leaders and executives who are walking their talk and who understand that branding is behavior, the culture of the company, and customer service, among other things, both within the organization and outside in the community. And as we talk about how leaders live their brand, we do so with four pillars: grounded identity, which is what makes your brand authentic, owned narrative, what is your brand's story as a leader and how do you tell it? Brand and action, how do you, the leader, instill brand values into your people, your work, and in your personal life, and then influence with it with integrity, which we'll talk about today. How do you show up publicly and ethically, especially when no one is looking? These are conversations about what it takes to build trust as a leader, inspire your teams, and create meaningful impact in today's world. So whether you're leading a company, a nonprofit organization, or a movement in your community, this show will help you to reconnect with why you are doing the work you do, how it connects to who you are, and how you show up with intention in every space you occupy. So let's get started. My guest today is Christine Edwards Pitkin. Christine is a civic innovator, a founder and principal consultant with a Master of Public Administration and a focus on urban management and policy. Before launching her community engagement consulting company, Civility Localized, she excelled in several local government affairs roles within the Charlotte, North Carolina community. That includes community relations coordinator for Mecklenburg County Government. Her mission has been to help communities grow with dignity. And she was recently named a 2025 Charlotte Woman in Business Honoree. And her company was featured in numerous publications, including Fast Company's World Changing Ideas issue for the City of Asheville Community Reparations Project. Additionally, in 2025, Christine graced the TEDx stage with her signature talk, Why Quiet Activists Must Unmute. And she talked about how civic change accelerates when we create space for every voice to be heard, not just the ones with the megaphones. When Christine is not serving her community, she can be found exploring the world through travel, enjoying Southern food, or nurturing her love for civic advocacy by watching it play out in everyday life. Now I follow Christine's work as a community advocate for a number of years. And I also participated in the cohort for her Civic Impact Academy in Charlotte. And I can speak to her authenticity in the way she shows up for the community, the way she educates leaders, and helps residents to understand their role in making change in the place that they live, work, and play. Christine operates at the intersection of government, community voices, and entrepreneurship. And her work focuses on helping governments to engage the communities that they serve more effectively and inclusively, particularly those that have been historically left out of this decision making. So today we're going to take a look at how integrity works when the stakes are real. So welcome, Christine, to the Going Beyond the Image podcast.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Thank you. Thank you so much. As I come off of mute and enter into this space, I really appreciate you just having me on and everything that you've done to help really develop me as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Well, thank you. I'm honored to be able to talk with you a little bit more in a different capacity today. Would you please tell our guests a little bit about yourself as far as where's home for you and what helped you to get to where you are today as a leader of your own company?

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Sure. Well,

Growing Up Charlotte And Choosing Government

SPEAKER_01 5:34

uh, you know, you pretty much covered everything in the bio. But um, just to give some background for folks, um, I'm not from Charlotte originally. I can't claim the native status. Um, so I'm not a unicorn in that sense, but I'm from Norfolk, Virginia, um, but moved to Charlotte in elementary school and grew up in Charlotte, and I've seen the city grow and change over time. And I think one of the things that really led me into doing community-based work is moving to the east side and growing up in a neighborhood where I could actually walk to school with my brother, and you know, being a millennial and being a latchkey kid and walk home or ride the bus home and just really be a kid of my environment, um, and moving to different parts of the city and just seeing what was available in some spaces that was not readily available in other spaces. Yeah. Um, so I just got really curious about that. Um, and I ended up studying sociology and African American studies at UNC Greensboro and graduated in 2010 at the height of the recession, the 2008 recession, and just didn't know what I was going to do with that degree. Um, so I entered right back into school and um got my MPA from UNC Charlotte. So that's what really led me to the public sector.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

What made you have a desire, or what led to your desire to serve in government? Because some people will see what's wrong, talk about it, complain about it, and say, well, that's something for someone else to deal with. What made you feel as though you could have a hand in making change?

SPEAKER_01 7:26

That's a great question. I don't I don't know that there's a one thing that pointed to pointing me directly to local government. There's a couple of things that come to mind. Um, my dad served in the Navy. So, you know, he's a Navy veteran, and he I grew up just listening to all of his stories about just being able to travel the world, you know, through the Navy and being a citizen of this country and being American and not only giving back, but also getting what you can, you know, really exercising those rights and getting what you can from our government. Um, so I always kind of had that mindset of exercise every single right that you have because we fought really hard for it. Um, but then in college, I kind of wanted to go into social work, but I wanted to have a bigger impact rather than having like a direct impact. So I had an internship at the um Greensboro Housing Coalition, and we were helping folks who um were becoming for first-time homebuy. We were helping people that um were um close to homelessness or housing insecure, and we would provide them housing vouchers and things like that. And so I was talking to one of the counselors, and so she was studying for her MPA. And so I said, Well, what's that? You know, so she said that um you could still do this policy work and housing work, but you could get paid more and you can have a bigger impact on the community by helping to create some of these policies. And I've always just been like kind of a nosy kid and just wanting to know how things operate behind the scenes. So I did a little bit of research on my own and decided I wanted to be a city manager. Wow. So that's that's how I kind of got into um into local government is just by understanding that I could have an impact and just learning that what I what what people do on the corporate side and the private sector is the same. The same things need to be done um for the private sector, and I could be a part of it, you know, like all of our roads, the water that comes out of the faucet, you know, all of that is something that um the government touches. So I wanted to be a part of that.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

So you've

Why Civility Localized Became The Name

SPEAKER_02 9:52

named your company Civility Localize, which to me is a brand statement by itself. But can you tell my listeners, our listeners, a little bit more about why the name is what it is and what you're trying to represent by that?

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Yes. So the story behind the name is not as exciting as you would think, but it is um, so we actually started out under a different name. So when I founded um the company, we were actually called Amplify Charlotte. And Amplify Charlotte was all about learning how to amplify your voice and use your voice for civic impact and civic change. Um, and then in 2021, I went to go uh trademark the name Amplify Charlotte. And I was working with uh my attorney who um I knew her from years prior. And so me and her had a really good rapport, and she just was really honest with me. She said, Christine, I want to help you with this, but I don't think we can trademark that name, you know, and she really advised me against it because the name was too generic. She said, Amplify Charlotte is nice, but you know, the word amplify is already being used in trademark brands, and you don't want to trademark the name of a city. The city, right? Yeah, you don't want to be stuck just working, you know, with Charlotte. Um, and so I really felt like ownership of that brand and what we're gonna talk about today, right? You know, beyond the brand and really just owning that. Um, so it was really important for me to have a brand that I could um own and grow over time. Um, so she came up with the name Civility Localized. Uh and so she gave me a few different options and we landed on Civility Localized because again, this was around 2022. So this was um in that was this was during the first Trump administration, I want to say. Yeah, 2024.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

20 to 24, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:02

I think so. No, this was no. No, no, it was already we were already into the Biden Harrison. That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

So this was mid-COVID, and it was after that 2016 to 2020 um, you know, Trump administration. And the reason that I name him specifically is that there was a shift in civility in our country. And during COVID, I felt that there was a need for civility. Um, and so this word civility just really piques a lot of people's interest. Yes. Um, and I wanted to be able to own it and take it back and be able to define what it means. And so that's why we went with the word civility, um, because we want there to be civil conversation. You know, we're we're we're doing community engagement, we're doing civic engagement. Um, and then the word localized. So, you know, the work that we do is hyper-local. Um, the the biggest impact that you can have on your community is actually locally. Um, so civility localized, I know it's a mouthful, but it's also memorable. So that's the that's where the name comes from.

SPEAKER_02 13:17

It's memorable, but you also just gave us kind of a masterclass in creating a brand because it's, I think, civilian first. I didn't even start with civility. It was more like civilian and civilian engagement, civil engagement. And then localized, it allows you to take that into any community. You're not just bound to one city, whereas before it was tied to a specific area. So this lets you be more of a global brand that can teach communities around the world how to engage on a local level. So I love that. And that's part of the point of this podcast. It's not just an interview series with leaders, but it's to help people understand what a brand is. Yes, it's the name, yes, it's the logo, but it also is tied to what people are going to perceive when they encounter it, the person who represents the brand, other people that become brand ambassadors, all of those things, the service that you receive or the experience that you have, those things all shape a brand. And so I appreciate you sharing honestly about how yours came to be. So we're gonna going to dig into that a little bit. Um, in this podcast and in the going beyond the image, we talk about influencing with integrity. And I chose that section for you because in my encounters with you, what I've read about you, how I've seen you work, you have a very honest approach to how you engage in your work. It's not for show. It, you know, you don't talk for likes. What people get in the professional interaction with Christine is what they get in the personal interaction. And it's the way that you deliver your work product to teach people how to be engaged in their government more. And you're welcome. And so for me, it, you know, you are a person of influence in our community here in Charlotte, but you do it in a way that people can be proud of. And as you said, a lot of that is lacking because some so many people are just going digital, going viral, going online for not even 15 minutes of fame anymore. It's 15 seconds. It's who can be most viral for the most outrageous things, but we have to get back to what is the purpose? Who does it benefit? Is this helping us to be a better, a better people? And so with that, I wanted to ask you how do you maintain integrity, especially when you work with government and the community sector?

Two-Way Engagement And Hard Integrity Calls

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Their ideals don't often agree. So, how do you maintain integrity when the priority of one may differ from the other or may differ from your own ideals?

SPEAKER_01 16:06

That's a big question.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

So, how do I maintain integrity when sometimes my clients' values or your clients' values may not align with the needs of the community that you have to get in front of? Or let me rephrase that. Has there ever been a time where two things? One your client's values didn't align with your own, and you had to make a decision. So that's one. And then the second one, how do you maintain integrity when you might side with the community that you have to get in front of, but the client has hired you to speak on their behalf?

SPEAKER_01 16:49

Well, I really try to be open about it in the beginning and you know, let them know that the work that we do is not traditional marketing or it's not traditional public relations. For me, the way that we define community engagement is creating a two-way platform for communication. So they need to be prepared to receive that feedback from the community. And that is what they're hiring me for. Okay. Not necessarily for amplification and to promote what they have going on or to promote a project. I think that's a part of it, but it's a small part of it. And the big part of it is really the community engagement piece, which is um that two-way feedback and that two-way engagement. So I try to communicate that early on as much as I can. Um, and then sometimes I have to make hard decisions about whether I'm gonna work with this client. Um, you know, and it's hard because being an entrepreneur, being a small business owner, you don't want to have to say no to opportunities. Um but because again, I'm doing a lot of work in Charlotte, which is my hometown, and where I live. And, you know, so I have to remember that I have I'm in a relationship with these community members, you know, and I have to talk to them even after the project is over. So I think that having that that integrity is super important. And also community engagement work can be um, it can create harm. It can create harm for the facilitator, and it could even create harm for the community if not handled correctly. Um yeah. Well, like for example, um, even with my team members or with people that I hire, if we if I'm asking them to go into a community and hold tough conversations, then I have to be really mindful about how they're going to handle that. Um, and I worked with the city of Asheville uh with their reparations commission, and you know, reparations is a hard subject because not only are you trying to pay for past harms, but they wanted the community to identify the past harms. And in doing so, they had to come to terms with the fact that they were harmed. And that and that hurts. Um and so it that was a really tough project. It was tough. You know, we actually had and and you know, and I don't say this lightly at all. There were, I can think there's two um members of the commission who have actually passed on because we're working with um older folks, we're working with people that um have health impacts, you know, they want to bring the people to the table that were most impacted by the harms so that they can identify reparations, recommendations. Um, one of them was an uh 80-year-old community member, you know, came to every single meeting. Um, and he has he has since passed on Mr. Um Bernard Oliphant. I remember him. Um, and then we also had um a facilitator, you know. So I don't say this lightly at all. You have to be careful about that. Right. Regardless of what it looks like in the media, I think there was a an article put out because I actually walked away from that project before my contract was done.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Really?

SPEAKER_02 20:39

I did. Because it was causing harm. Right. And and that's that's a good point too, because you could have said, you know what, they've already paid me. I'm going to do this for the money. But then either you would not be able to function at your best later on, or you could have caused trauma to the people that were supposed to be helped in the first place. And I think that's that's what integrity is about. It's knowing where to draw the line in business where you have to make a decision and say, okay, I could go this way, but do I really want to? And what are the impacts of me doing X, Y, and Z? So I really appreciate you sharing that because that was one of the questions I was going to ask next was, you know, did you ever have to push back on a client to protect community trust? And it sounds like this is an example of where that happened.

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Absolutely. What we ended up doing was um I recommended a trauma responsive facilitator to take over my work. And so I worked with them from December 2022 to about April 2024. And then from April 2024 throughout the rest of the year, that other facilitator was doing the monthly meeting. Um, you know, because I it was just it was a lot, but but that is life-changing work, you know what I mean? That's that's like legacy-defining work, and now we're doing a similar project in the city of Kansas City around reparations. So that's just one example. Um, and then I think locally, an example would be um so in a this is a very specific example, but in um in Charlotte, um, the CPB, the the Border Patrol and the ICE operation that was inflicted upon the

Walking Away To Prevent Community Harm

SPEAKER_01 22:39

city of Charlotte happened during the time that we were engaging folks around um transportation planning. It just so happened that we were doing this big um transportation um campaign to see if to see if we could take the temperature on what folks thought about um expanding public transportation. Right. And so one of my goals or that one of the objectives that my client gave was that they wanted to work with Spanish speaking people and work with the Latinx community. And so I had to kind of push back and say, hey, I think that this community is experiencing a lot of things right now, and I just don't think right now is a good time.

SPEAKER_02 23:16

Might not be a good time.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

It might not be a good time, you know, and and I just have to say that. And then one of my kind of tips and tricks is um I always get things in writing. You know, when we talk about integrity, I try to focus on email exchanges, especially when you're dealing with the public sector, because then you can't, it'll be a public record. You can go back, and then it'll be on record. Christine said she does not advise this.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Well, that's true. And you have to, I mean, you have to protect again, you have to protect your brand because your work is built on trust. People have to trust you, and they also have to feel that you're objective enough to work on either side. So I appreciate that you understand that. Has there ever been an opportunity you turn down because it didn't align with who you are at your core? We're getting into some stuff right now. And if you can't talk about it, we can always transition to something else.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

I mean, I think that we have we do have our values. Um, and you mentioned trust. That is actually our first value is trust. We have seven values: trust, community, inclusion, ease, autonomy, and fun. You know, and I love that you build that in. Um and trust is number one. You know, the community needs to trust us, but then my team, you know, I've built a company culture where my team needs to trust me to make the right decisions about where we're going, but I also have to, they have to trust me to make payroll.

SPEAKER_00 25:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

So um, so to your question about have I turned down projects, sure. You know, because you know, in this environment, it actually takes a lot of energy and sometimes it takes money to go after these projects. So, you know, if the project doesn't align with my values, then I won't even pursue it, um, regardless of how much money it is, um, because I think that there's a lot of opportunities out there that are in alignment um with our values. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Well, I love that. And another that's a good check segue for us because I wanted to know what part of your leadership story that people don't see help to put this level of integrity in you? Like what is it that you would say helped shape your character that shows up in your work life today? Ooh, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

I mean, I'm not perfect, you know. Um, what is it in my character that shapes my work life? I think I I'm not I'm but not perfect by any means, but I think that having had a career in government and being this young woman and being this young person that has ambition, I think that really set me up for where I am today because it really surprises a lot of people the way that I show up. Um and I had to uh deal with a lot of imposter syndrome in my career before I even started my business. Um, and so I butted up against that a lot and had to kind of resolve it. Um, but at the same time, I had mentors, you know, I had mentors who saw something in me, and it took a while for me to believe them, you know. So and so I think that having someone see something in me, I want to be able to do that for the next person. That's so yeah, yeah. Yeah, and and I mean, in my in my early career, being in a space that is kind of male-dominated, working in government, um, working with elected officials and things like that, um I will say the freedom of entrepreneurship is definitely a draw. For sure.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Well, yeah, because you get to you get to to have more say in in what works and what doesn't work for you.

Seven Values And Turning Down Work

SPEAKER_02 27:33

And since you brought that up in terms of the the dynamics of your industry, how do you stay grounded in your values when there may be power dynamics that you're coming in the room perceived as the weaker person or that you're going up against big government? How how do you stay grounded and confident that what you're doing is the right thing to do when it can be such an intimidating environment?

SPEAKER_01 28:01

I just take up space. And and what that looks like is I speak. You know, I think that people, again, they can be surprised by what I choose to say, how I show up to meetings, deciding not to just be a fly on the wall when it comes to meetings and things like that, advocating for myself, um, asking to get paid, asking, you know, having the money conversation early on so that people know where I where I stand. I think it's so important. Um, and we need to be having those conversations for for women in business all the time so that that we're not afraid to to ask for what we're worth and and have the money conversation early. Um, so yeah, I just I show up and I say, I I speak, you know. I don't want to be the one that's like, um, what did they say? Seen and not heard. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Um, yeah. Which in my generation, that's what we we children are to be seen and not heard. That was that was the law of the land. Um, so taking what you built, how do you ensure that your team members that work with you bring that same commitment, that same level of um confident honesty to their work?

SPEAKER_01 29:23

I I work with a lot of people that I like. The the people that um, you know, uh we have a small team, so I've been working with most of them for at least a year at this point. And we have team meetings weekly. I talk to my team, they get me, I they get my personality. Um, so I think we just we know one another and we like one another. Um, and then the other thing is whenever we get kudos from a client, or if we get kudos or a mention on social media, I send it to them immediately. Immediately, I send it to them and say, hey, look what so-and-so said. Look. Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

So they're a part of the win. It's not just about you.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

Yes, exactly. They're part of the win. Um, it's a lot for one person as a founder. It is a lot to handle, especially having a brand that is so public-facing. Um, you know, we're B to we're B2B, so we serve other businesses and we serve other organizations. So it's not like we're certain we're selling a product. Right. And that and that's why reputation is so important, because you don't want to burn a bridge, you know. So I always try to make sure I'm not saying anything negative. Um, and then if I do have to have a hard conversation, I have that conversation in private.

SPEAKER_02 30:53

And that's good because I was going to ask, like, how does that affect you in your personal life if you have to be so measured all the time, especially because your personal brand is your business in a lot of ways. How how do you balance that? Is it even uh hard for you? Because you might this might be you all the time. So it may not be that much of a stretch.

SPEAKER_01 31:17

It's really not. I mean, I I'm a measured person. Um and I feel like I I listen, I try not to react too much to people. And I I mean, I just I'm comfortable in all these different environments. So if in my community engagement work has has really helped with that. So I can I can be very diplomatic. Um just yesterday I was working at an event, a client event, and we had a community member that was there. And previously I had asked them to be a part of the um program. So we had a series of speakers that was going to come up and speak and be a part of the program. Um, but they never got back to me and confirmed it. So they weren't on the agenda. And so it was like, okay, let me go over here and have this tough conversation. And so I told them, I said, Hey, you're not on the agenda for today because I, you know, I didn't hear back from you and never really confirmed it. And they said, Oh, well, you know, I'm so busy. And so I said, Well, you know what? Let me just check and see if there's something we can do. So then I checked with the organizers and they said, Yeah, we have time. You know, it's important for the community member, the neighborhood representative to come in and say hi and talk about this project. And so then I went right right back over there and said, you know, and I'm just saying it lighthearted, you know, like, oh, we definitely have space for you. And, you know, we keep it brief and keep it, you know, on target. And, you know, you're the expert. This is your community, this is your neighborhood. You know what

Money Talks And Showing Up Confidently

SPEAKER_01 32:49

to say, just kind of feeding into them. Um, and she was ready, she had a speech ready and everything. I was like, see, that, you know, so I think just not being afraid to have those conversations is important. Um, another thing about me is that I am um I'm just a cheerleader. So I'm gonna cheer on the next person. I don't need to have the spotlight. If this person wants to have the spotlight, I just want to make sure that they are ready and they're prepared and that I'm gonna cheer them on.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

And you know, you said some really good things, and I hope that the people listening are taking notes because you talked about just being comfortable in who you are. That's what I heard. You're comfortable as Christine, you know, and then you also have people around you who you like to be around. So then the work doesn't feel heavy because you're doing it with people who also want the same things. And I think with branding and brand as a leader of a brand, that's important. You know, we see that with companies like Apple. There's certain institutions where every encounter is going to leave a certain experience for the for the customer, the client, whomever, because they've ensure that the company culture is structured in that way. And I I I like that you include fun as one of your principles because working with government and community advocacy can be heavy work a lot of times because people don't advocate because things are going well. They're advocating because something is missing and it's an important something. So to be able to have a bit of levity to your work so it doesn't burden you as the one responsible for kind of being a mediator. I think that's really important. And and for people who are building a brand, you know, that's intangible, that's not a product per se, you still have to put that level of thought into how you show up and what you want people to feel when they encounter your services, because that's what she's offering is a service to community. So thank you for that. Um, we're almost at the end here, and I I wanted to just ask you how do you influence systems and or government or business without losing yourself in the process? Has that ever come up for you?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Yes. Um, how do I influence systems?

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Without losing yourself. Like some sometimes I think you know, there used to be a term fake it till you make it, or you have to put on these airs, right? But today it's more about being transparent and authentic. So when you have a role that people are looking up to you in, how do you make sure that you stay Christine, stay grounded, and never have to be something you're not to get your work done or get your point across?

SPEAKER_01 35:56

I just like to be comfortable, you know, in doing what I'm doing. And I think it's because when I started out my career, I really felt like I had to fit in a mold. And I was wearing business casual, even in even in undergrad to go to my meetings. I was known as the the girl that had the meetings, like, oh, she's going to all these meetings. You know, I was doing student government, I was doing Greek life, I was volunteering, I was doing the key club, I was doing everything. And, you know, I really was trying to fit into something that I thought I needed to be. And now I really just like to be comfortable. I mean, I'm comfortable in business casual in a blazer, but I also like to wear my natural hair, you know. Um, I definitely feel like there's a time and a place to be uncomfortable and to try to fit in a mold, but people see through that. Yes. I think that people can see through that. Um, you know, just like with using AI to write for you, it's important to have your own voice.

SPEAKER_02 37:08

Say that again loudly.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

You gotta use your own voice, you know. I use um artificial intelligence to help, you know, optimize and to save time, but I'm not using it for my own voice. You still have to have your own voice, and people can see through it when you're not using your voice and when you're not yourself. Absolutely. Um, you know, I think that just on a human level.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Well,

Using Your Own Voice To Lead

SPEAKER_02 37:37

I love that. And I wanted to ask you, what does living your brand mean to you?

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Living my brand. Living my brand to me means that I can be satisfied at the end of the day and not have this gnawing feeling in my gut that I didn't say the thing that I needed to say, or I didn't do the thing that I needed to do. Um thinking about how I'm I made somebody feel that day, or how civility localized made someone feel that day. Um yeah, so I think just being being comfortable at the end of the day, you know, and wanting to get back up and do it again the next day.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

I love that. And so before I let you go, I have a series of quick questions called Beyond the Image. There are no wrong answers, just the real ones. What is one value or belief that keeps you grounded no matter what position you're in? Relationships matter. Relationships matter, and what is one practice that helps you to remain aligned with the leader you want to be? Writing my feelings down. Writing your feelings down, okay. And what might people often assume about you from the outside looking in that doesn't quite tell the full story of who you are? They might assume that I'm shy. And lastly, when people experience your leadership at work, what do you hope they remember the best? That they can do anything they set their mind to that. They can do anything they set their mind to. I think that is the perfect note to end on. And I want to thank you for being so genuine and so honest. Um, I hope that our listeners took away something important today from this conversation. And I just want to close with this that if this episode spoke to you, please don't keep it to yourself. Be sure to share it with a leader who might need to hear these nuggets. And don't forget to like and subscribe to hear from other leaders in the coming weeks. So thank you for tuning in. And until next time, this is Going Beyond the Image, and I'm your host, Loanne Lee.