Episode 15: Ursula Jacob

In this week's episode I'm joined by one of the greatest camogie players of her generation Ursula Jacob to take a look back at her career and growing up in a proper Gaa family in Wexford. We look back at her club career and alsp at the four All-Ireland's she won with Wexford and she gives her thoughts on the cureent Wexfrod side, and also the new format been trialled this year in the All-Ireland. She also gives her prediction as to who will go on and win the All-Ireland. And as always she picks the best five players she has played with and against in her career.

Don't forget to follow us on Instagram at talkingcamogiepodcast and also on X at talkingcamogiepod. And you can email the pod at talkingcamogiepodcast@gmail.com. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hi and welcome back to this week's episode of the Talking Commodore Podcast. I'm joined this week by one of the best talking chairs of all time, really. She's a four-time honor and winner. She's one three-time winner. Ten Lester titles for a county. Eight Lancer club titles. Two Ashbrun clubs. She won two honored club titles. Thirteen club county titles along with four all-stars from the famous two character ballet club. You're very welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

Thank you. And appreciate that nice introduction as well.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

And look, I suppose I all started off in these episodes going back to when you were young, like and I suppose for you there was never really any doubt that GAA was going to play a major part. Like, consider like your father, Mick wasn't it, first Wexford's first ever all-star, your mother, Breda, like said in a junior All-Earning final in 1972, I think it was. And look, of course, your uncles Christy Robby bought her for Wexford too, and then with your Aunt Bridey, I think, or something. Well, it all earned Wexford in 1975. So I suppose there was, as I said, GA was always about to be like kind of in there. You know, I don't know. No other choice, I suppose. Really?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Yeah, like I think we were as a family very much steeped in the GA. Mam and Dad, as you mentioned, obviously had huge involvement in Camogie and Harlan. And I suppose between myself, my sister Helena, my two brothers, Michael and Rory, the four of us probably had very little options other than playing GA. But I have to say, there was never an ounce of pressure or anything in relation to picking up the hurl. We just naturally enjoyed it. It's what we like to do as a family and with our friends from Oulert to Ballock. It's the it's the common interest that boys and girls have and would have had at that time. My mum would have been one of the primary school teachers in Oulert alongside Breda Flood, who was the principal. And they put a huge emphasis and focus on, you know, hurling every day in school. And I genuinely believe that might sound as basic as anything, but I genuinely believe us hurling every day in school, along with practicing our skills in training in the evenings, massively helped us as a club in both hurling and camoe. And no one ever forced us to do it. We naturally just wanted to do it. And as you said, like I'm the youngest of four. And the other, my two brothers and my sister probably tried out different sports before they really nailed down on Harlan and Camogi. But by the time it came to me, it was like, Yeah, Arsley, you're just going to be hurling, I think. Because mom and dad were the taxis going around everywhere, bringing us left, right, and centre. And the easiest thing about going to the pitch, we all could just, you know, jump in the car and head down to the pitch as a family and then head to the different trainings.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah. And I suppose I know you spoke about before, but in your playing under, you know, I suppose there was great. I say it was very compet competitive when you were younger as well. And I know actually Keith Russell was a neighbour of yours Austin as well. So and he used to be up with you. So I'd say that was some fun like that back then, like you know, off of our future county shards. Like, so I'd say that was there was great, like I suppose, competition maybe as well as well at that stage.

SPEAKER_01 3:23

Well, to be honest, it toughened myself up and it toughened my sister up because very often, like, we had a brilliant front lawn at the front of our mom and dad's house. We we treated it like a pitch as opposed to a garden. We, you know, we had the goals set up, and everyone seemed to come to our garden to play Harlem matches, and they were like All Ireland finals. We took them as serious as playing a championship match, and usually it ended in a row, and you know, people went home and whatever. But to be honest, it was brilliant. And when I think back of it, like, you know, the likes of Mark and Keith Roster, who were our neighbours, Stephen Dial, my my couple of best friends, Liz and Caroline Murphy. Like, we all just kind of all just enjoyed being out on the front lawn, hooking a ball, challenging each other, and making each other better players. So yeah, it definitely toughened me up as a young man. And when it was just the four of us, myself and Helena would always play against the two boys, and usually Michael would go in the goal, and then it'd be me and Helena versus Rory. And Helena do all the donkey work, and then she'd pass the ball inside to me, and I'd get the handy score. And Sherlock, I often say, Sherlucka didn't Helena make me a better player then by by setting me up, scoring goals and and all that. And I let her do all the the hard work and the tackling. So yeah, loads of fun and brilliant memories to have as well.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah, I like obviously grown up, you would have had a lot of um role models, I suppose, the people to look up to in your own family. So I suppose a lot of them would have been from your own family. But if we just get uh any more, maybe role models you had grown up, you know, who you looked up to as well. Obviously, in the family, but outside the family as well, would have been many who would have been you looked who you looked up to?

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Well, I suppose when I was when I was younger, when I was younger, and obviously when I was 10 or 11, Wexford won the hurl in All Ireland in '96, and the captain was Martin's story. And like Martin was a huge inspiration to us. And it was so exciting as a young kid that the cup was being brought back to Owlert and the memories that you have, like it's hard to believe it's 30 years ago now. And thinking back, like, you know, that our own club person was lifting the cup, and I think that's just brilliant. And we were so lucky that you know, Martin was a captain, a brilliant leader, and he was there, you know, giving us inspiration to wanting to achieve that as well. And I genuinely at that age always had the ambition that I wanted to play with Wexford, I wanted to emulate what he was doing, lifting the cup, winning in All Ireland. And thankfully it worked out that way. And on the kind of comoge side, you know, two people that spring to mind for me within the club that were huge influences and role models on the camoe side was Margaret Lacey and Fiona Dunn. Margaret Lacey is one of the greatest camoe players that ever played the game, and obviously her two daughters, Mary and Una, I would have played every bit of Camoge with them from the very the smallest of underage at under 10 right up to senior. And Margaret was probably over every single team in the club, and she's still there actively supporting the teams in the club, and she had a huge influence on me in loads of ways and a brilliant role model to have. And then Fiona Dunn, obviously another exceptional camoe player, and who would have played with Wexford at senior level, uh, and I would have played alongside a club level. And to have someone like Fiona and her skill level, her standards that she set, it was a real eye-opener to me of what was expected from you as a senior player, even at club level. Um, and I I I I know they say, Oh, you shouldn't meet your heroes, but to me, when I was younger, Fiona was my hero. And to actually get to line out beside her with the club and win my first county medal with her full forward and me corner forward was something I'll always remember.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

So, like, obviously great. And you had a lot of good, well, because the club was supposed, you know, it's a lot of successful big club like a max with Outlet. Like, what was it like? What did it mean to line out for Outlet when you did like and win so many tight championships with Udlar? It must have been a tremendous achievement for you. It must have been first proud, especially with your sister alongside you then as well.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

Like Yeah, well, like I remember before we won the first county final with Oulert in in 04, we lost the previous three finals, and we were kind of we knew we had a good team and it was building, and we had we had a huge amount of success at underage. And really, there was a like it was years before we won our first senior that the kind of development work was being done, the groundwork, and the core group of girls stuck together and really stuck at it. And we had that ambition that we wanted to win a senior county medal. And I suppose losing the three finals in a row like was utterly heartbreaking. And I was only whatever age at the time, I was 17, 18, and you're kind of thinking, oh my God, you know, are we ever going to get over the line? And thankfully we did. And that that that win in the county final against Shelmelier, St. Ibars in the final, it really was such a vital cog in in our kind of run of success that we we ended up having. Because once we we tasted that tasted that little bit of success, we didn't want to let go of it. And you know, I was very, very lucky to play with some of the best players within Wexford and outside of Wexford on those teams. And like I was lucky enough in my career to win 14. But the girls have gone on since I retired, have won it further to. So to win 16 county medals in the space of what 21, 22 years is just phenomenal. And like the likes of Mary and Una Lacey, who I've already mentioned, like they've got 16 county final medals. Like, I'm not sure there's too many Camogie players across Ireland who've won that amount of medals at club level. And winning with your club, there's something special and something extra special about winning with your club because you're representing your family, you're playing alongside your sisters or your cousins or your best friends that you've grown up, and you're in each other's pockets every single day, whether it's you're in the on the training pitch, you're in school together, you're socializing together, whatever. And these are the girls that you start your career with and you end your career with. And I was very grateful and very lucky that I played alongside so many brilliant girls because the thing with Ouler Tabalock is it was never revolving around one player. It was the team, it was the group of players, it was the collective. And that's why we I believe we genuinely had so much success because we had a really strong collective who were willing to work above and beyond to do whatever to get success.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

I think to have that much success, you kind of have to have that all right, you know, the team ethic, and that because I don't think you'd have it without it. So look, it's obviously a testament to the work that goes on within Ular Debala and like the people involved in the club. Like, there's obviously, you know, the work to put in, I suppose starting off underage and all the way up. Like, and there's obviously load, I suppose it's a lot of people there, you know, putting put giving their time up freely and uh, you know, just to make the club a successful. Like, yeah, I think it's a testament to how well run it is.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Yeah, well, look at the players are the ones who always get the the headlines and the praise and the congratulations. But I think now that I'm retired and I'm kind of looking on the outside in, and it's it's the work that's been done behind the scenes of people who are volunteering and giving up so much of their time in order to facilitate us to get success out on the pitch. The amount of stuff over the years that was done, whether it was fundraising initiatives, committees, you know, working behind the scenes to, you know, get coaches, external coaches in, getting sponsorship for new gear, you know, team bonding days, those little things all made the difference. And obviously, then we got to reap the benefits of that. And uh winning the games obviously was was was brilliant. But like we went through loads of times where we had really disappointing losses, heartbreak, different stuff. But we had we had the thing was we kind of stuck together, and I can think of so many people that played played huge parts in in our success that were behind the scenes. As I mentioned, Margaret Lacey was someone who was always there. Bridget and Aidan Moore and Bridget recently passed away, and Aidan likewise a couple of years ago. And the two of those played huge roles in terms of Bridget was like a second mammy to us. She was the first aid woman, she was the person to give you a hug if you needed it, or words of encouragement. Aidan was the same, he had a really gentle and kind nature. Martin Story was heavily involved over the years with Camoge, my own dad. Like there's so many people, it's nearly it's nearly impossible to name all those people that give so much of their time so that we would get the very best of us out on the pitch. And those are the people that deserve, you know, the the the rewards just as much as us. They're the unsung heroes, in my opinion. Because as I said, the Ursula Jacobs and the other players will get all the praise when you win. But without those people behind the scenes, we wouldn't have achieved what we did.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Uh look, we're gonna go to the year 2000 now, which was a bit of a big year for you. Like at the age of just 14, you made your Wetford debut in the game against you actually made your debut on gold, I believe, wasn't it, against Tipperary down at Central Stadium at only 14 years of age, which I thought is a bit mad when you think about it, like going to go that it was it was a double set double header with the Dublin Kerry game, wasn't it? On year on before it. And I know I know Tipperary got three goals, but we won't talk about that. But that must have been mad experience.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Now, Joe, we'll we'll delete that from the podcast, okay? The three goals. Uh you can see that my career in the goals didn't didn't last anyway, and it was all it was completely by chance, I suppose, that I ended up in in goals because I as you said I was under 14, and I had a couple of months previous to that, I had gone to a schools athletics day up in Kilkenny, and I ended up climbing a fence to go out onto the track, and I broke my wrist. And lo and behold, I was playing under 14 county at the time, and we reached the Leinster final. And I just got back in time for the Leinster final, and the management team led by Jack O'Brien said, Look, we're going to poppy in the goal there for the Leinster final against Kilkenny in under 14. And sure, I was happy enough because I was getting to play the game. I'd missed a couple of other games from from breaking my wrist. And sure, I must have done a decent job in the goal for Dan Quigley, then an ex you know, brilliant Wexford hurler who would have hurled alongside my dad. He was over us at the senior level. And I'll never forget him giving me a call to see what I would come in for to play in the goal for the senior team. And I'm kind of half thinking, what the hell? I'm not even a really proper goalie. But your young and naive 14-year-old Ursula jumped at the chancellor. You're not going to say no to someone asking you into a senior intercounty setup. And look at, I can always say I I played in in Semple Stadium before that brilliant football game. And we were playing against a tip team that year who were who were going for the three in a row. And they were the best team out there at that time. They were phenomenal. They had some of the greatest players of all time on that team. And I just felt like a baby in the goal. I'll never forget. I just felt like it was giants running in against me as I stood in the goal, holding my hurl, praying that the ball wouldn't come in. So it didn't end up being a positive day for me or Wexford in terms of you know winning the game. But look, it it was a standout moment in my career. And I I ended up playing, I think, the following year in the goal as well. And thankfully, then after that, they realized I was much better further up the field scoring goals rather than trying to stop them.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Yeah, look, it ended up all right anyway, and fairness. So yeah. But 2000 also, you were back to the minor final against goal, which game which you lost. But you still spoke in that that was the game that maybe fueled the future senior success that she had down in Mexford. Like so just talk back to that game. Must have been fairly disappointing, like you know, just to lose that final like that. And just go on about how you how it fueled that success, like going forward.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, well, look at first of all, it was a huge achievement at the time. Probably not not a huge amount of people, maybe outside of our group, expected that we were going to reach that minor All Ireland. And again, I found myself in the goal, lining out, going in the goal. And I I suppose the most disappointing thing about that final was we probably didn't do ourselves any sort of justice. We only got I think we only scored three points that day, and I was in the goal for the first half, and because we weren't scoring a whole lot, I actually swapped to play out the field in the second half, and Josie Dwyer went back in the goal, and I I ended up scoring a point in the second half. But Galway were by far better than us that day, but I knew the potential that was in that group. You know, there was the likes of Josie Dwyer, as I mentioned, you know, Deirdre Cod, Karen Atkinson, Mary Lacey, you know, these were all future senior players. And I believed that if we stuck together as a group, we were going to build something nicely at senior level. And a core bulk of that team that reached the minor Isle Ireland had also achieved a huge amount of success with Cloche to Breed, where I went to secondary school. And I suppose again, I knew that if we stuck together and were willing to commit and put in the hard training, I did feel that we would see the benefits at senior level. But again, I was under no kind of you know uncertainty that like it wasn't just going to happen overnight either. There was gonna have to be kind of a a standard raising standards, there was gonna have to be a huge amount of work put in because even at that time, you know, 20 years ago, like Komohi was at a high place, it was it was in a good place, and you weren't just going to even compete at senior level without having a strong panel. And the likes of Tip and Cork and Kilkenny were dominating then, and Wexford were probably on the fringes. I remember going to games and Wexford were getting beaten by 15-20 points, and that was really hard to look at because you're kind of thinking, where does this leave us? We're so far away from winning in All Ireland. And in the fact then that like we started competing with these top teams, and I think the belief started kind of seeping into the group in maybe 05-06 that we're not too far away from it, and thankfully 07, the breakthrough year arrived then.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, like yeah, 2007, like you bet Cork in the final, like 27 to 1-8. Like what was that like before you obviously going into your first alana final? What was it like for you going in like that? Was there much nerves like that? And you know you're feeling the G were you confident going in there? Because again, we know how great Cork have been always have been like so. Like so you probably were underdogs as well, maybe going in, but what was the feeling like in the camp, like going into the game? And even for yourself, was there that's what to do?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Because like first all early final and uh Yeah, well, the you you just said the word there, we were massive underdogs, no one was really talking about Wexford. It was kind of more about the hype of Cork, they were going for the three in a row, they obviously were the the top team at that time, and as I said, we had reached a couple of semifinals and league finals and that. And yeah, maybe some people uh from outside of Wexford could see some of the potential there. But I even thought that people maybe thought we were ahead of our time at that stage uh in reaching the final. And I think they knew that Wexford were going to bring a physical edge, but I think there was maybe doubts around could we match Cork with their skill level and their pace and their speed? We very much focused on ourselves. I I remember kind of in the build-up, absolutely really feeling excited about playing Cork, about playing in Crow Park. We went up in advance of the game, you know, to walk around the pitch and check out the surroundings. And I very much kind of, I don't know, was it because I was younger and everything? I didn't really know what to expect, but I very much took it in my stride and I looked forward to the game more so than feeling very nervous. And at that time in 07, the senior Komogi Our Island final was played alongside the under-21 final. So I think it was Galway in Dublin that year. So there was a huge crowd in Crow Park even before our game. So that was probably that was the first time I was playing in front of in front of a crowd of 20,000, 25,000 people. And I do remember maybe in the warm-up kind of saying, God, it's very loud, it's very big. Like Crow Park, the dimensions and everything is different than any other pitch in the whole of Ireland. So obviously, I kind of allowed in the warm-up, look, just get myself used to the surroundings, the bigger pitch, get a few points scored in the warm-up to get the confidence up. But I as I said, we felt quietly confident going into that game that we had the talent within our team to take down Cork, and thankfully that did that did happen that day.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

And I thought Wait, then that was that was would have been Wexford's fourth on Ireland at that stage, though. It'd been a while since going on. But then suppose 2008-2009. You did you know you'd been with the other like was there a feeling then in maybe that Wexford maybe were what maybe one hit wonder, maybe, or something going in 2010? Like, because you know, what was this the narrative that got Wexford at that stage, like especially going into 2010?

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I look at 08 and I feel that we were nearly still celebrating the win in 07, and 08 was just a hugely disappointing year because we we did we went on our team holiday to Florida in April of 08, and like by the time championship came around, we were nearly playing catch-up. So I felt like 2008 was just like nearly a write-off because we we weren't putting in the same level maybe that we did the previous year. 09, we reached the semi-final, and again, we knew that like we weren't doing ourselves justice. There was more in us. I didn't feel, I don't think the narrative ever came in my head or the girls' head that we were only. A one-hit wander. I did believe there was more in us. I don't think we would have stuck together like we did as a group if we felt that there wasn't more in us. And I suppose then in the winter of 09, new management came in, JJ Doyle, Jerry McQuaid, our trainer, came in. And I'll I'll probably never forget our first meeting in the Riverside Park Hotel in Escarty. And JJ speaking to us, none of us really knew him, and he didn't really know any of us. And that was our first encounter with him. And he very much confidently very much spoke to us in saying that we're going to win the Ireland Ireland. And like this is this is a guy who we don't really have a huge amount of knowledge in. You're kind of wondering, God, is this a bit maybe is this a bit fake saying this? Or really now is he just saying this for the sake of it? But genuinely, he believed that like we hadn't just massively become bad players in 08-09. Maybe we didn't have the same desire, this the structures in place weren't as good. And to be fair to JJ and his management team, he got good people in around him, and he seemed to get the best out of us as a team, and we seemed to be at a peak at the right time. And the standards in training massively went up from in 2010. You know, you you would not be there under no circumstances would you be missing a training session. You would have to be on your deathbed to be missing training because JJ just wouldn't accept that. And I think we bought into that brilliantly because he expected a lot from us. We expected stuff from him. But as players, then we were willing to call out each other if we weren't given the 110% that was required. So I I found that we were back in into a good place in 2010, and obviously it led to a huge amount of success over those three years.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Yeah, like the three in a row, 2012. I got a few 2012, you got player the match, like I think it was a 2-7 you scored in final. So was that your best performance of the freedom or do you feel or did you feel you had maybe before that?

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Or um obviously, look it. That has to probably be the standout one. Anytime you're scoring 2-7 in a in an All-Ireland final, and in an epic All-Ireland final, it was absolutely one of the best games, if not the best game that I ever was involved in. I even was aware of that as I was playing the game, that this is just top class from start to finish. The referee was allowing the game to flow. Every player on the pitch was of a high standard, everyone was giving it their all. I just think it brought on the game of Camoge to another level because I think it was a huge advertisement for Camogie in general, that 2012 final, because Cork were brilliant, Wexford were brilliant. We had to be brilliant to beat that car team. I think they brought out the very best in us, and thankfully, we responded to that challenge because, as I mentioned, when we beat them in 2007, they were going for the three in a row. Obviously, then when we were going for the three in a row in 2012, the talk was could Cork knock us off the pedestal? What could Cork bring to the table? And obviously, Cork are a deadly team in an All-Ireland final. They don't lose too many of them. So we knew that. Was there maybe more pressure on us in 2012? Again, I never really listened to the outside of noise, but we were definitely favourites going into that final because we had been very impressive all year. We were going for the three in a row, we had a really dominant semi-final performance, and we had a really, really strong team. But as a collective, that team performance in 2012 was a real joy to kind of play in. And I think it was probably as close to our best 60 minutes of Kamoge that we played as a group.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Like, obviously, look looking back in your career, you've had a lot of successes we've already touched on. But which victory like means the most to you of all the success like which one would mean the most in your whole career like?

SPEAKER_01 26:09

It's hard to narrow it down to one. And like, as I said, in club and county, I've been so lucky to have achieved so much. I would probably look, I'd probably say two. Probably that 2012 win with Wexford was probably the most satisfying, the most pleasing in lots of ways. Winning the three in a row, beating Cork in a final is always nice. Scoring 2-7 on a personal note, winning with my with my sister, all those things were brilliant. And it was a brilliant game to play in, a brilliant game to watch. And so many people still bring up that final to me. On a club level, winning our last club final, beating Sarsfields from Galway during the COVID era of 2021, that was absolutely phenomenal. Because I suppose the biggest thing about that was those games weren't originally meant to happen. The games were cancelled due to COVID. But we as a club alongside alongside Sarsfields and other clubs that were involved at the time, you know, really put it up to the Camogee Association and said, why not? Why can't these games happen? They can happen week in, week out if needs be. And thankfully, we pushed them and pushed them until the games did go ahead. And I think during that time, everything was just all talk about COVID. But us winning those games and winning that Club Our Ireland, where we were going in as huge underdogs. We had nearly been written off within Wexford and outside of Wexford at that time. It was hugely satisfying to say that we're not gone away yet. We're still here and we want to win this final. And the relief and joy and happiness that that brought to everyone within the club and the parish was just absolutely unbelievable. When the when the whistle blew in Olin Park and we won that final, I just remember the sense of relief and happiness and to say we did it. You know, when everyone is kind of doubting you and saying you're gone past it and we're an age and team and all this, it was like proving all the doubters wrong. And yeah, I it was just a really special period of time in lots of ways, and winning that All Ireland, and then 10 10 days later, I was actually getting married. So I was still still on a high from winning the All Ireland when I was when I was walking up the aisle then.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Not a bad way to get married, I suppose having that. Yeah, you know, and look, 2016, you know, uh just 16 years of playing intercounty, like you retired at the age of 30. And just go back to that time, like I know you're still young, so you probably could have had another few go. As I said, look, you'd already played 16 years at that time, so it was obviously that's a long time be playing at the top level, like you know. But what was it like to make that decision? Was it a new I don't think I said before you talked about where you've you've wasn't that easy because you're thinking about it for a while, and you I think it wasn't you said the founder health back was telling your parents maybe about that you're retired.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Like without a doubt, like people even back then would have said to me, God, you're you're so young to be retiring from Intercounty. But the thing was, like, I had played 16 years with the seniors, you know, from the age of 14. And for the bulk of those years, I was commuting from Waterford because I was a student down there, then I was working down there, and it does take its toll. The demands were very high. You were training three, four nights a week, still doing a bit with the club as well. And you know, maybe the love for the game wasn't as much there. I was, I didn't want to ever feel like narky about Camogey or nearly turning bitter or sour about Camogi. I wanted to end on my terms when I was still enjoying it. I knew that I was going back to my club, who were in a really good place, and I was going to still get to play with so many of my friends. It didn't mean that it wasn't in any way an easy decision because it wasn't, it was a huge shift in everything because I remember in in 2016 when I announced I was retiring and I only was focusing on the club. It was like a way off my shoulder because I could solely focus and give 100% to the club because it was like a balancing act between the club and the county for the 16 years. And it did, it did get tricky at times. It did get it did get tiring at times, but I ultimately knew it was the right decision for me. I had given it my all. I've no regrets. I haven't got a bitter bone in my body about retiring. I have some of the best of memories and some of the best of friends from playing with Wexford, but I knew I was so lucky that I was coming back into an environment with the club that there was still a huge amount of success there if I wanted to achieve it. And luckily, I did continue to have loads of brilliant days with with the red and black of Oulert.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

I like now that you're would you ever see yourself maybe going into management at any stage? I know you have the you're working and you have you're on television and I didn't cover it in that. But is that something you ever see yourself do going into management, maybe at some stage or something you thought about?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah, definitely down the line. It's definitely a future plan, anyway. It's it's definitely not a present, a present idea because at the moment I just have too many things going on between my own work, RT work, having two small kids to run around. I'm I'm kept going as it is. So putting putting and putting another thing on my list of jobs definitely isn't in the plans at the moment. But down the line, I'd love to give back to both the club and county. It's definitely an ambition of mine. I've dipped in and out of it. I'm I'm helping my sister a little bit with the the minor comogue team in Oulert at the moment. But uh when I when I want when I when I'm going to fully commit to it, I really want to give it my all because I'm not someone who's casual about my involvement. If I'm going to manage or train a team, I will give it my all. And I look forward to that time. It will be it will be a different kind of challenge, and it will be something that I know I will take enjoyment out of because I like being able to get the very best out of people. And I think that's part of what you can do as a manager or as a coach. That seeing a player improve or get better or winning at something, I think that's brilliant to see. So it's definitely a plan down the line. So look, watch this space.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

We'll see what happens. Maybe we'll be a manager Wexford from there. But just speaking of Wexford.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:39

Yeah, just get your thoughts on the year they just had like obviously they're all too decent enough that like I know the league was maybe wanted in the league, but then they went on to win the Lancer Championship, you know, which was a huge achievement for them. But then once it's all Ireland came around, it just seemed to didn't seem to happen for them. And you know, now ended up being relegated into media, which look is a big blow to uh Comogel and Westford really now at this stage, right? So could you get your thoughts maybe on where Westford is and where it can go from here?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, it's looking overall, it's been a really hugely disappointing year, and there was a real sense of sadness for myself and I know for others as well when when they lost that relegation playoff against Dublin, because you know, we had been at the top of our game. If you had said to me in 2012 that we we weren't going to be back in an like I thought when we won the three in a row in 2012 that we'd be there another year, a year, a few years later in All Irelands, but it's 14 years now, and we haven't been back in an All Ireland final, and now we're after being relegated to intermediate. Like it's it's very, very tough one to take. Like Jerry McQuaid came in this year as manager, and as I mentioned earlier, he was our trainer during those training role years. He was the best trainer, physical trainer I ever had. He was phenomenal. And I know Jerry, and I spoke to him at the start of the year, and I know he wanted to bring Wexer Komohe up to the top again and raise the standards, and he he sees the potential there. And I didn't think it was going to be something that would happen overnight because there's a huge amount of work that needs to happen. And I I was at a few of the league games at the start of the year, and there were positive signs, definitely the fitness levels were up to a higher level, you know, and he was trying to improve the hurling, the speed of hurling, and all of that. But he's a very young panel, very inexperienced players, and that that does matter at senior level. When they won the Leinster Championship, like you know, I it was obviously brilliant. Beating Kilkenny by a pint in the Leinster semi-final, and then obviously beating Dublin after extra time in the Leinster final was brilliant. It was fantastic to see a Wexter player lifting a trophy, and I really felt positive in advance of the championship. I was thinking, God, they can really challenge here to potentially get into a quarter final. And I remember sitting watching the Offley game on the live stream that day in the opening round of the championship, and I felt Wexford looked like they were kind of playing within themselves. They didn't really seem to be playing them at any amount of confidence. I was wondering were were they nearly still kind of celebrating from winning the previous week in the Leinster Championship? And they never really got going that day against Offley. And Offley killed them that day with with the last minute goal. And I felt looking at the body language of the Wexter players that day, they looked so dejected. They looked nearly like, oh God, this is this is the start of something that's gonna go wrong. And it was like they couldn't catch a break then the next day against Clare and the next game against Limerick and Offley and Kilkenny, and they just confidence seemed to go from them, and momentum seemed to go from them. The moment the momentum they had built from the Leinster Championship seemed to disappear in the championship. And you know, when when you get one loss, another one seeps in, and the games were coming ticking fast, it was like they didn't get a chance to breathe. And then when when you've such an inexperienced group of players playing, sometimes maybe the leadership maybe is not there then because they haven't been in these situations before. So, look, I hope I hope Jerry probably sticks with him for for next year because I know Jerry is putting in a huge amount of work and a huge amount of effort, and he'll no doubt have be hugely disappointed being relegated. But Wexford have to rebuild now, they have to get the best players within Wexford playing, and they have to look to the future now. They have to build a strong panel. It's not going to happen overnight. There's no guarantee they're going to come and win intermediate next year. They have to work hard and they have to build a strong panel. But the overall feeling for me this year is is hugely disappointing, really.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

Yeah, but you mentioned that they're like the off the game, you know, they're behind the hot time that came back, they got themselves ahead on, but then like obviously got the obviously got the late goal and seemed to just knock the stuff out of them. They never really recovered from that defeat. And I think maybe that's where it all started for them.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, that's that's why I'm saying it was like a snowball effect that they just they they like kind of lost their confidence after that awfully game, and it was a real tough pill to swallow, and they just didn't recover. That's basically it. And look in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Yeah. Look, I'd like to get your thought actually on are you briefly spoke about at all on the Saturday before the Kikini Waterford quarterfinal couple weeks ago, but the new former for the championship, you didn't seem to be you seem to have questions about questions about it, like especially the way the way it worked out, like the four groups, one group of four and one group of six, maybe, and the way they got out.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

So just if you just scroll through it a bit more there now, you know, because you seem to be a bit like I suppose my thoughts on it, I understand maybe the the reasoning behind it, and I do respect that the Camogee Association were trying to do something different. Obviously, last year we we had a huge amount of one-sided games, they're trying to make it more competitive. Yes, group one was really competitive. Yes, in some ways, in some ways, I'll say group two was competitive, but do I believe it's a true reflection of where the Camoge Championship is at? I still believe there's a huge gulf in in standards there. I do believe that it's possibly making the stronger team stronger, as opposed to making all the teams stronger. So look ahead in group one, you know, the four teams, Galway, Kilkenny, or Galway, Wadford, Tip, and Cork, like they're playing each other week in, week out. Even if you lose, it probably still has made Tipperary stronger as a team because they learn from those defeats. Do I agree that any team should reach an All-Ireland quarterfinal without winning a game? Under no circumstances, do I think that should happen? And that's not me taking an aim at Tipperary. That's regardless of what team is involved. I think there should be some element of jeopardy involved because Tipperary, Galway, Clark, and Waterford all knew that no matter what, no matter how they performed, they were going to be in an All-Ireland quarter final. Whereas I look at group two, Limerick and Offley both won two games, Dublin won one game. So they all won more games than Tipperary did, but they were they weren't involved in the the knockout stages. I think more supports, more development has to happen with those group teams like the Limericks, the Wexfords, the Dublins, the Offleys. I think it's too late to just look for help at senior level. I do think there's a responsibility on the Camogee Association and personnel in the Camoge Association to look at those counties and say, how do we bridge the gap? I think you have to look at underage structures structures because as I mentioned on television that day, it's the same teams at underlay underage levels that are competing and winning all Irelands. It's still Galway, Cork, Tilkenny, and maybe Tip the Odd Time. So where are the Limericks? Where are the Dublins? Where are the Wexfords? Where are the Offleys? They're they're usually keep competing maybe in B or under 23B. You know, it's not it's not promoting the game. And I don't think it's good enough that maybe realistically only three or four teams max can maybe win a senior or Ireland. Like, how do we get Limerick up to a higher level? How do we get Offley up there? How do we get Dublin back to compete in a quarterfinal, semi-final? Because we need those teams to make Camoge stronger. It's no point in just having Park and Galway brilliant, and you know, Watford very good, Tipperary very good. I think it'll become boring if it's the same two or three teams in the finals every year. That's not what Camoge is about. Camoge is a more is more about is not just about two or three teams. It's more there's more teams, more counties that can bring a lot to Camoge, but I think they need help. And yes, those teams you can say it's up to you in your own county to make things better, but maybe they need assistance. Maybe that's where someone from the Camoge can come in and say, Well, how can we get the standards up? Because I think that will only strengthen Camogie across the board.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

I agree with you what you're saying. Like you said it doing it now, a senior level, it's kind of too late. Like, you know, you have to be getting these counties under age, or maybe under 13 under 14, and getting them, developing them then because as I said, it's too late, really, at senior level because the likes of Cork, you're gonna read at the moment, and maybe Kagini, they're already at that strong level and they're still getting stronger. Like, so you need to need to be competing at like A level under 13 under 14 as well, like these countries, you know. So you know, I like I know it makes the championship a bit more competitive, but uh it's really improving the likes of the Labour State Olympics offense because they're still they're playing the center together, but they're not playing the top level team, so they're not they're only playing the teams at their own level, like so. They're not really going to get better from that either. Like them, they're still going to get in group games.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Yeah, I think you could see that even in now. I did I I tip were decent against Claire. I didn't think they're if Tip would have to improve a lot on that performance to to compete and beat Cork, but I think you could see that even the standard between Tip and Claire, that Claire, Claire's maybe speed of hurling and striking and that maybe wasn't at the same level as Tip Rary. And I'm not I'm not knocking Claire because I think Claire have had a fantastic year. I think they're a fantastic group of players, but I think maybe there there is a false narrative out there that maybe certain teams look better when they're playing maybe some of the weaker teams. I think Claire would only improve by playing the likes of Tip and Waterford and Galway and Cork on a weekly basis. So look, they'll probably trial it for maybe next year again. I know they're saying they're going to review things, and it's not me taking aim at the Camogi Association either, because I know they're trying out things and they're trying to improve the game, but I I think we have to be very careful that it's not just about making the top two or three teams better. We have to look at this from a wider perspective, a wider growth of the game, and we need to get more teams uh competitive at the top level.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

I think that's basically another shell like I just I know two of my favourite parts of each episode. I guess you're um the top five players you've played with and against in your career. So with that actually with top five players you've played against, though. If you go for if you go to them in any order, it's all panic or anything else. But if you want to go for On or you can just go on any other. That's up to you.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Well, I tell you, Joe, when I was thinking about this there yesterday, and I was like, God, it's hard to narrow it down to five because as I said, I've played for so many years against some of the best players in the game that I I I was there plucking names out of the thing, but these are my my five that came to my head that I I genuinely believe that like, oh my god, they'd they'd be on any team over any year. And some of them I directly marked, and some of them I just played against. So, in no particular order. First up, I've tra's Mar uh Galway. She's still absolutely flying it at with Aton Ryan, obviously winning the Club All Ireland. And over the years, I played against her. Obviously, she played up in the forwards, but she played part of her career at centre back. I don't ever really think I directly marked her, but I was close enough to her when I was in the full forward line. She is one of the best players of all time. She had everything skill, speed, hurling, intelligence on the ball, a brilliant reader of the game. She had every attribute and she'd be on any team in Ireland. And she's still a joy to watch. Like what she was doing with Aton Roy back in December and January was phenomenal. So, yeah, top class player. Second player up, Jem O'Connor, Cork. Again, I think she'd be on any team in Ireland. Obviously, it's great to see her giving back to Cork Mogie now on the sideline. An absolute top-class player, so tough, so tenacious. Her striking of the ball was something that I always admired. Again, she had that versatility. She probably could play in any position on the pitch, forwards, backs, midfielder. So difficult to mark. Even when she was hanging on with one leg in an Arle Ireland against Kilkenny, she was still playing out of her skins. And we had some huge battles with Gemma over the years between Wexford and Cork. And she was someone who was always so determined, never gave up. I would, I definitely wouldn't have minded her playing in the Wexford jersey or the Owler jersey. So a top class player. Next up, Uno Dwyer from Tipperary. I did mark her when I was only a baby with both Wexford and Owler. And Una was on that team with Tipperary when they were at their peak. And she was such a brilliant player. I felt like I was a child against, you know, a warrior when I when I played against her. I played her at club level as well. When we reached our first Club All Ireland semi-final, she was playing McCashill. And to say that she blew me out of the water, I didn't know what hit me when I was going tackling against her. She was such a brilliant defender, and no wonder she played such a key role on that brilliant Tipperary team. Next up, this player, obviously, I played against, but I played, I was lucky to play alongside her as well. Anne Dalton from Kilkenny. So obviously, against Kilkenny, many battles against Anne, an absolutely fantastic player. Her vision to pick you out as a player, I would have played alongside her with WIT and the Ashburn Cup. And that's how I know she was such a brilliant player because I used to play in the full forward line. She'd be usually out around midfield. And the delivery of the ball into you as a forward was always pinpoint accuracy. And she was an incredible leader on the Kilkenny team and also with us with us on the Ashburn Cup team. So very lucky to have played alongside her and obviously had huge battles against her with Kilkenny. And then the final player is another Galway player, Neave Kilkenny. To me, she was probably the best midfielder in our game. She was the engine of that Galway team. The ground that she could cover up and down the pitch, Crow Park or any pitch in Ireland, she was the heartbeat of that Galway team for many a year. I always admired her attitude, her never never say die attitude. And as I said, her ability to cover so much ground and her fitness levels were through the roof, but also maybe underestimated by some at times her skill level as well was phenomenal. So they're my five players.

SPEAKER_00 48:21

Now we're going to the five best players of Fed with more great names in this great names in the against now. So yeah. So this is hard enough for you as well.

SPEAKER_01 48:34

I kind of divided it up with the kind of three teams I played with. So Oulert over the years, Wexford over the years, and then with WIT with the Ashburn Cup team. So my first player that I played with, Mary Lacey, is an obvious one for me. I played club, county, schools, camoe with her. I started school with her. I finished school with her. I seemed to do everything with Mary. Um the best centre back I ever played with, she just was phenomenal. And she just brought so much to our teams. You knew when Mary was on the pitch that she was always going to give it her all. She was always going to win those 50-50 battles. She was brilliant in the air, a brilliant striker of the ball. And yeah, just able to read the game brilliantly. So very lucky that I got to play on the same teams with her for so many years. Always hated having to mark her in training. All right. So that was never an enjoyable experience. Next up is her sister Una Lacey. Again, played club and county in school commogue with her. Pretty much played all my career either inside or at full forward while she was center forward or played alongside her when one of us was either full forward or corner forward. And Una look it was the best player to catch a high ball and probably score a goal. Like she is a deadly forward. She's been so unfortunate and so unlucky with injuries over the years. But what I loved is she always came back stronger, and she's even currently going through another cruciate injury, and she just has shown a huge amount of resilience over the years. I always loved playing beside Una because I always knew where she was going to give me the ball. And I always loved playing alongside her because I always knew where she was going to be on the pitch too. So yeah, absolutely brilliant to play alongside her. So they're my kind of two outlet players. Next player up played many of years with her with Wexford was Kate Kelly. Look, one of the greatest players of all time, multiple All-Star and All Ireland winner. She could play anywhere on the pitch. She was gifted as a player. She could do things that other players couldn't do. And she brought so much to our team. She was a born leader, a brilliantly skillful player, could score from any distance, could probably play anywhere from position eight up, and even finish probably her career in the goals with her club team. But because she was such a brilliant hurler, she was brilliant in the goals. So yeah, Kate Kelly gave gave so much, and it was such an honor to play alongside her with Wexford. Probably next player up then is someone that is a very much onsung hero that I played alongside. And many people mightn't even mention her at times, but to me, she brought so much to the panel and team at Wexford was Josie Dwyer. She's a brilliant, probably one of the best attitudes of a player that I played alongside because the amount of work she would do behind the scenes in terms of her training, her fitness, improving her first touch. She was the player on the pitch who would do the donkey work to make the likes of me and other forwards look good. She was the player who won the dirty ball on the pitch and gave you the ball to score. She never looked for the limelight, she never looked for the awards or the accolades. She definitely deserved an all-star over her career and didn't win one. But to me, she brought so much to that Wexer teams that won the three in a row. And then finally, then player that I played alongside with WIT and the Ashburn Cup was Patricia Jackman from Watford. So Trish, for me, is someone who would have who would have made any team in Ireland at senior level. She was just an outstanding athlete who, again, had that flexibility to play anywhere on the pitch, a brilliant forward, an extremely talented midfielder, and could work as a defender if he needed her to be. Probably the one of the best strikers of the ball in the game, deadly accurate, a real team player. And yeah, she definitely made me a bet better player playing alongside her. So there's my five players with as much.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

That's great five. And look, Trisha's former guest on the show pod actually back from a few weeks ago. So yeah, she would have to hear that now. But look, I won't keep you too much longer now, because I know you have to head on soon. But just before I got you go, I just get your opinion or get your prediction for who do you think will win the All-Ireland now from here from the four remaining things? Who do you think is going to go in and win it from here?

SPEAKER_01 53:16

Well, look, the obvious, the uh if you're looking at the semi-finals, the obvious I don't mean the obvious. Cork had a really rocky start to the year in both Munster and League, but they've really found farm cum championship. They're unbeaten, they've looked really strong collectively. And a Cork team playing with confidence is a really dangerous team. Galway, again, I felt they only played really in maybe second or third gear in the league, and they still ended up winning the league without having to really exert themselves a whole amount. And I think that's a good sign for a team because you knew they weren't at their peak in the league and they still came out on top. Then they they probably had a little bit of a dip in their performance against against Cork in the open around. But again, what do champions do? They respond in a positive way, and they got two good wins against Watford and Tip. So I think Cork and Galway are still looking in the strongest positions in those semifinals. I do think it's going to be a repeat of Cork and Galway in the final. Now, that's not disrespecting Tip or Kilkenny because they're both there on merit in the semifinals. Kilkenny are going in very dangerous in into a semi-final in terms of they could cause an upset. And Tip will really feel that they need to get that monkey off the back, that semi-final monkey. And they'll probably be happy that maybe they've got Cork as opposed to Galway because their record in semi-finals against Galway hasn't been good. Whereas they'll take confidence this year that they've beaten Cork in the league. They've or they beat him in the Munster Championship, they drew him in the league, and they only narrowly lost to him in championships. So I think we're in for two big semi-finals, but I still feel it's going to be a repeat of the last two years in the final. And I think it's very hard to call if it is Cork and Galway in a final. But I I do think maybe I'm gonna go with Galway. I think there's something about them that when it comes to it in those key moments in a in a match, they know how to turn on the style. And I still I still reckon that they they they want to do the back-to-back now. That's the challenge for them this year. But look at the other three teams are still still in way of chance, and there's still loads of comogi to play for.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

Look, I'll give it to you there, like Gaway. Probably the best team in Ireland for winning tight games, like you know, when it's really comes to the crunch of the last 10 minutes for really no better team and get to just know how to go over the line, like and you would put Cork, I think, in Gawa's favourites to win the semi-finals. Like I see that our temporary over the last few years. And when they're at their best, like they really are a top team, but it just seems to be a bit of inconsistency. And I know it's when they play the likes of Cork and go, it just I don't know if it's panic sets in, but the shooting does be off again. They have very low shooting rate, like and they pick along a bad wide and drop a lot of short, like and it seems to cost them in the games against them, especially in the big games against they like the cart and go in. I think they'll need to improve on that now. They are going to be cork in next week.

SPEAKER_01 56:34

Well, look, if I was Tipperary, right, going into the semi-final, they're playing in their home pitch in Tarless. They know they've already beaten Cork this year, they're monster champions. They know there was only three points between them in the earlier round uh group stages. You know, Karen Kendi wasn't playing that day. They've got Imer McGrath back on board, Quevus Stakelem is is back. They have a huge amount of talent in that Tipperary setup, but it's it's winning. I think it's so crucial. I think Tipperary could take off if they could win one of these big games. They have to. They need to win a semi-final. As I said, it's that monkey on their back now. They've lost seven out of the last eight. They've been in seven out of the last uh semi uh semi-finals and they've lost them all. If they could get over the line in the seven in the semi-final, anything could happen, but they're gonna come up against a really strong and determined team in Cork. But I think there's hugely positive signs for Tipperary that maybe they're coming right at the right time. But I really hope for Tip's sake that they do themselves justice. I feel the last couple of years they haven't done themselves justice in the semi-final, and I hope that Karen Kendi is back to full fitness as well because we want to see the best players out on the pitch and playing.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

But like just before we go, Uncle Kenny, like was they really coming with this the other lose, like and just go for it against Garwin. Because I don't think many people maybe were expecting them to be here at the start of the year because they've kind of been rebuilding trades for the last few years. Like, well, they have got I know they've been in the supposed what's called the weaker group, but they have a lot of young talented herders coming through as well. Like, so you know, they're really have they've got to lose actually, they can just go for it like and see where it takes them, like you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Well, well, look for it. The thing is that you know, getting that victory against Waterford was a big thing for them, and it'll give them huge confidence. Galway have had a four-week break as well, so you know, the is there a freshness there? Is there going to be a little bit of a you know, they've been left idle for a month as well. Like the last time Kilkenny were in an Arle Ireland and won the Earl Ireland was back in 2022, and they beat Galway in that semi-final as well. So, look, I wouldn't write out, I wouldn't rule out Kilkenny coming very close to beating Galway. They beat Galway in the league in the first round of the league this year, and Kilkenny are a very decent team, even you know, it's the strength and depth they have as well. You could see the impact off the bench, Claire Daughney coming in, Katie Nolan scoring two goals. You know, Galway will have to be at their best to get over to get over Kilkenny. And Kilkenny still do have a huge amount of experience in their in their team and a huge amount of quality. I just hope they express themselves fully in this semi-final because, you know, play without fear. There's more pressure, probably on Galway, to get back to a final than there is on Kilkenny. They the last three years Kilkenny was struggling to get over the quarterfinal stage. They've now done that. They should feel maybe this is like bonus territory now. But like any Kilkenny team, when they get to semi-final stage, they want to win it. And semi-finals are there to be won, and they'll be happy to go in as underdogs, and they'll be happy that all the talk will be about Cork and Galway. And will we see a rematch of Cork and Galway? So the talk will be about those two teams, but don't rule out Tip and Kilkenny.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

Yeah, so look, we'll leave it at that for this week, but before I go, I'd just like to remind everyone of our social media channels. We're on Instagram at Talk and Kamoge Podcast, and you can find us on X at Talk and Comoge Pod. And if you want to email the show, you can email us at talk and komogepodcast at gmail.com. And look, before I hit up, also I do. I want to tell you, look, when I started this podcast, was if I had a listed dream guest people like gone, you're definitely one of them. So look, it's look, it's been an absolute pleasure chat and talk about your career and all that. And look, honestly, it's been a pleasure having you on because you know you've achieved so much of the game. Like I'm one of the one that probably look, you're probably one of the works was best and one of the country best thing. I love this is into you on the Sunday game, then as well. Like in your analysis, you know, you do you know your stuff. Like, you know, I do enjoy listening to you on the Sunday game with us. So look, I said it's been an absolute pleasure and have me disappointed either. So look, thanks a million for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

No bother, Joe, and thanks a million. And look at the likes of you and other people that are trying to raise more a higher profile about Camogi. The more that we're talking about Camogi, whether it's sometimes uh you know negatives or positives, it's good that we're talking about it, and it's great to give the players now, you know, voices to speak about Camogi and even listening to ex players playing it. It's it's fantastic. So keep up the good work.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:19

All right, no problem. Anyway, to head up next week. So tune in, don't forget shooting next week, where we'll be looking ahead to the two All Ireland semi finals of Carlisle on Saturday. So tune in for them. But for now, goodbye.