SPEAKER_00 0:00

I always end up feeling I'm always the one who pushes my pain down because I'm the one that people come to when they're going through something.

SPEAKER_01 0:08

So I'd like to talk about your wounds.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

I remember one time I was walking down the stairs in the school and almost fainted everyone, including my teachers, making me feel like I was making it up. My sister took me to emergency. The doctor said if you guys brought her 20 minutes later, her appendix would have exploded. I'm 36. I have my doctorate in education. I'm about to publish my seventh book.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

What is one of your favorite poetic line or two that's really had an impact on your life? These mountains that you are carrying.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

You were only supposed to climb.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

That's beautiful. Parents are in Canada, you're left behind in Lebanon, so you felt different. Felt like I didn't have a stable sense of home. So I always felt like I was a mistake. Is that still running you? Hey, this is Marissa Peer, and welcome to another Your Mind Your Rules podcast. Today I have an amazing guest called Najwa Zabian. I'm sure you've heard of her. She's an international poet, a best-selling author. She particularly helps women who go through heartbreak to understand how to be true to themselves. She's one of the most thoughtful voices on healing, boundaries, authenticity, and self-worth. She's written extensively about building a home within yourself, recovering from emotional pain, navigating change, and living authentically after trauma and heartbreak. So welcome. I'm so pleased that you're here. Thank you so much. I love the fact you're a poet. And I think we can be very moved by words. And there's an expression I love, and it says the feeling that cannot find its expression in tears may cause other organs to weep. And I've always found that the most profound expression, I've based a lot of my work on that. When our mouth can't say, I'm in pain, I'm hurt, I'm betrayed, we get headaches or stomach aches or skin breakouts because the body is trying to express it. That's one of my favorite poetic verses. The feeling that cannot find its expression in tears may cause other organs to weak. What is one of yours? What is one of your favorite, favorite poetic line or two that's really had an impact on your life?

SPEAKER_00 2:20

I would say it's words that I wrote myself that came to me during a very dark time in my life. Um, these mountains that you are carrying, you were only supposed to climb.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Oh, I love that. That's beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Thank you. It came to me at a time when I felt like the pain I was carrying from my past, the pain of emotions that went unfelt because the people in my life who hurt me didn't give me permission to feel that pain. They minimized what they did to me. They just made me feel like I'm too emotional. So I stopped myself from feeling anything, but I felt like I was walking around carrying it all. And it felt as heavy as mountains. And so I reminded myself that I was never meant to carry all of that. I was meant to actually use it to elevate myself and to become a better, more authentic person, as opposed to continuing to hide the parts of myself that make me me.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

That's very beautiful. And of course, everyone in our line of work, we all come to understand that if we can deal with our own pain and help someone else through our pain deal with their pain, it's all worth it. There's another expression I love so much. It's anonymous, and it says, when you don't fix your wounds, you bleed on the people that didn't even cut you. And I think that's a very good place to start. So I'd like to talk about your wounds, the people you were bleeding on, until you suddenly realize, you know, I got to fix my own wounds, and then I can have the joy and the gift of helping the rest of the world fix theirs too.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yes. So the earliest memories I have take me back to the wound of feeling like I don't deserve to be included, and feeling like the love I witnessed other children get is not one that I deserve. It's one that I have to work hard for. So I spent many of my early years around my cousins, my aunts and uncles. And I actually lived for a period of time with an aunt and uncle of mine. And then during other periods of times, I lived with another aunt, another uncle, another cousin, my older sister. And so I always felt like I didn't have a stable sense of home. And wherever I went, I had to be on my best behavior so that they would include me. And a vivid memory I have from when I was about eight or nine years old is being at my aunt and uncle's house. I was living at their house at the time. And uh we were playing in the playroom, me and my cousins, and my aunt came and said, it was the night before a big celebration that we have called Daid. You've probably heard of it. It's kind of like your Christmas, you know? It's a huge celebration. So, you know, you get gifts and you get your clothes and you get candy and money and all that. And so we were playing, and my aunt came into the room and said, she called her kids to go downstairs to the family room. And she said to me, You stay here, it's family time. And Marissa, it took me years to even recover that story. I think I forgot about it to protect myself from how deep that pain was. I don't think I resolved it for many, many years. But in that moment, I learned that I don't deserve that. And that was the love, the consideration that somebody thought about me as part of their family. I remember being eight or nine, but feeling like an adult. Like I didn't feel like a child. I felt like I was given this huge responsibility that says, it's on you to understand that this part of life doesn't include you. So my wounds go all the way back to then, and they've shaped the way I've handled every single adult relationship in my life. And so when I wrote the book that's coming out in August, The One Who Broke You Can't Heal You, that came from a place of saying the people who gave me all that pain to heal from are definitely not the ones who are going to heal it. Even if they apologize, even if they come to me and say, hey, we knew we were doing something wrong when we did it. I genuinely don't think they have the ability to heal the parts of me that they broke back then. I'm the one who has to do that. And I it took me so long to actually truly learn that. Because you know, there's a difference between words and logic and feeling, right? There's a difference between what you know is the right way to be and is the right way to heal, and and how you actually internally feel about that, and whether you're still sitting there and asking yourself, like, how could they do that? And how they knew they were doing something wrong. And it's like all these emotions bubble up inside of you, and there's anger, there's sadness. There's also a feeling of helplessness, like I couldn't do anything back then, and I can't do anything about that now. But when you take that leap of faith in yourself and say, you know what, I may not have had a choice in who hurt me or how they hurt me or how I recovered from it back then, I actually do have a choice right now, which is why I love your work so much, because every time I listen to you, I feel like there is a choice. There is a there is a solution, there is a step I can take that moves me closer to actually being more in control of my life than just continuing to wait for every person who broke me in some way to erase it all.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

You know, I was told I would never be able to have a baby. I had cancer twice and was told I'd have to live with that forever. I got run over and was told I couldn't walk for six months. I actually walked in six weeks. And each time I got that diagnosed, I thought, no, this is my mind, my rules. I bounced back from cancer. I had a perfect baby. I recovered from being run over super fast, and I used the techniques in this book. In fact, I wrote this book while I was in plaster, having been run over. Because the things that made me bounce back will make you bounce back from relationship issues, wealth issues, childhood issues, confidence issues. If you want to live your life on your terms and have love, success, health, wealth, even the body of your dreams, it's all in here. Buy it and change your life forever. Yeah, and you're so correct, because you see, when you're a small child, particularly before the age of six, children before the age of six have no logic at all. They just have a feeling. And if the feeling is, oh gosh, my aunt doesn't like me the way she likes her own children, oh gosh, my dad doesn't call me, my mum doesn't visit me, a child will look at the watch and try to make sense of it without logic, only feeling. And the feeling is always, well, I'm getting it wrong somehow. You know, one of my clients told me that his parents took him to boarding school when he was eight and left him there. And his first thought was, gosh, I failed as a son, they don't want me anymore. The truth was they spent a lot of money and worked two jobs, thinking they were giving him a great gift. But his his the meaning making mindset, what can I make of this? They've dumped me here. Well, there's only one meaning, uh, they don't want me. You know, a child doesn't have the booty go, my mother is mentally unwell, my dad is an alcoholic, my parents have never got married, they can only look at it and think, they didn't love me, so I'm not lovable. You know, sadly, when a parent does not appear to love the child for whatever reason, and often it isn't they don't love them, they just can't show them. So the child will never stop loving the parent. They immediately and often permanently stop loving themselves. That little girl had to take ownership of that. You had to believe it was about you.

unknown 10:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

And that's the first sad thing we do. We take ownership. The second sad sad thing is we stop loving ourselves and the people who aren't caring for us correctly. And the third is that we expect them to change. We think one day my mean critical dad's gonna be this sweet little lovely old man who's gonna make it right. One day my distant critical mother is gonna be this sweet little old lady. And sometimes that happens, but often it doesn't. A mean critical withholding young parent becomes a mean critical withholding old parent. And they they are, as you say, they cannot fix you. They inflicted the wounds. They can't fix you. Even if they want to fix you, they can't fix you. When you go back, you know, hey, when it was my birthday and I asked for this, and you go, and they go, What are you talking about? I don't remember that. I remember really working hard. Or they might say, Well, guess what happened to me on my birthday? I didn't get anything. And so it's very hard to get resolution from the people who damaged you. And it's so frustrating. But when you think, hey, I I can parent myself now. I don't have to wait for them to change. I can change, I can even forgive them, but I can give myself all the things I didn't get. And that's all of that little girl who was told to you stay here, this is family time, was something so painful for her. It made you feel different. And children need to feel the same. We are wired to find connection and avoid rejection. The minute we're born, our job is find connection, avoid rejection. And in that room, what you got was rejection and disconnection. And of course, it's so painful. We start to, as you did, think, okay, I gotta earn love. I need to work for love, I need to chase love, I need to buy love because it wasn't given to you freely and unconditionally. So I want to ask you one question. What is your earliest memory? Your very earliest memory of all time.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

My parents used to teach at the same school, and so they put me in the daycare that was available at that school. So my earliest memories are being there when I was less than three years old. I remember, I don't know how. And I also remember my mom dropping me off at my grandparents' house on her way to school. And when I tell her that, she says, that's impossible because you were, I think, two years old when I would drop you off there. And I could remember, I could remember their house. I could, because my grandpa died when I was three years old. And I tell everybody, I remember him. I remember playing with him. I remember exactly where he would sit. I remember he had um some kind of procedure where they put like a hole in his neck because he couldn't breathe properly. And everybody's shocked that I remember that. But those are my like, if I were to go back as far as I can, that's what I can remember.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

You know, I can remember standing in a bay window, and my brother was coming back from his first day at school, and I was two, and he was four, and I remember that very well. And I also remember when I was three and a bit, and my mother was having a new baby. She took me to a shop and had a pyramid of dolls, and you can pick your own baby. And I remember vividly not picking the smallest or the biggest, picking one in the middle. And I called it as and I remember wearing this little coat that was like a little poodle coat. I remember all of that, like it was yesterday. So we must never say you can't remember that far back. Some people remember being in the womb. Some people remember all kinds of things, but two. I think you can remember a lot of things at two, three, four, maybe not so much at one. But the biggest thing you're remembering is the feeling. Your mother dropped you off with someone that wasn't your mother. Yes. And that's what you remember, the feeling that you probably didn't feel safe. Maybe you didn't. Maybe you loved your grandmother. But you if a child doesn't feel safe, you'll remember that feeling.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yes, I remember always wanting to be around my mom. I remember just feeling so special if she actually ended up taking me with her to school. And you're right. I never thought about it that way because my memories of being at the daycare in the school were when my mom would come in on her break to see me and spend time with me. And my memory of my grandparents would be her dropping me off there. So you're right. I think it had to do with that, with my mom leaving or my mom.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Because for a child, you know, when you pick up a newborn baby, they do that free-fall, which means if you drop them, something will break their fall. They have that powerful grip. So everything we do is to be safe. Yes. And the brain is very wired to are you safe? Your brain doesn't care if you're happy or sad, it cares if you are safe. And so a lot of things we do, it's like if we stand at a high building and look down, our stomach drops, even though we know we're safe, because we don't think our brain doesn't think we're safe. One of the weird things is when we feel very hungry, we'll eat anything. Because the biggest thing that killed us not that long ago was hunger. And so a lot of our behaviors are going, I'm I don't feel safe because I'm hungry, I don't feel safe because I don't feel safe because you don't love me. I don't feel safe because I think you're going to abandon me. So your first memory is actually very much a view of how you see the world. So that first memory is a little girl being parted from her mother on a regular basis, going to grandmother, going to daycare. I'm interested at how you believe that memory, that first memory has shaped you and molded you.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

I think connecting it to other moments in my life, I see that that was the beginning of me believing that I was a burden, that whoever could take care of me would take care of me, however, they did. And I was at the mercy of whoever's care I was left in, or um feeling like I'm on the margins of the most important people in my life, the people who I love the most. And when I look at my adult years, that is exactly what I accepted is the feeling of I'm too much. I need to stay small, I need to lower my expectations, I need to maybe not have expectations and just be grateful that they accepted me in their life. So my earliest memories were, you know, wherever my mom leaves me, I should be on my best behavior and be as quiet as possible so that I'm not stirring any trouble or I'm not making the people who whose care I'm in feel like they don't want to look after me anymore. Um and so that's from the the earliest memories. When I look at between the ages of eight to sixteen, because I also stayed with different relatives, I remember one time I had such excruciating stomach pain. I would have been 15 at that time, and I was living at my other uncle's house, and I woke up in the middle of the night and I puked three times, and I was on the floor in the bathroom from my stomach pain. And uh my uncle's wife, who taught at the same school I attended, so she took me with her to school every morning. Uh, she was like, you know, we'll keep an eye on you at the school and uh make sure you're okay. So I went to school in that state because nobody could look after me or take care of me. I wasn't taken to the hospital. And then uh I went to school still in excruciating pain, and literally everyone, including my teachers, were making me feel like I was making it up. Like I just want attention because my parents aren't around and I'm always a sensitive one and all that. And then I was walking down the stairs in the school and almost fainted. And my sister worked at the school. She taught, but I wasn't living with her. And uh she went to the administration and said, I'm taking my sister to the hospital. So she took me to emergency, and the doctor said, if you guys brought her 20 minutes later, her appendix would have exploded. And they took me into surgery right away. And that was such a defining moment for me that I think brought a lot of those earlier messages that I don't even have the right to actually complain about a real pain that's happening in my life. That's a burden on the people around me. I'm supposed to somehow swallow that pain and just deal with it. And um I remember waking up and being sad that there wasn't anybody there around, like my parents weren't around. They were in Canada, I was in Lebanon at the time, but still I was sad that I felt like nobody really cared whether I was okay or not. It was just like there, she's handled. She she got the care that she needed and she's fine. And um when I look back and I envision how I would have reacted as an adult who cares about me, like what would I have done? It definitely wasn't that. I would have made sure that the girl that was on the floor in pain uh would have been taken to the hospital because that was abnormal. And I would have made sure that she felt taken care of, not forced to go to school and just told, you know, you're like this, your parents aren't around, and you know, you just want attention. And so yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I guess I went on many tangents there, but um well, you do something interesting because a child has very simple core needs. I need to feel safe, I need to feel connected, I need to feel loved, I need to feel significant, like aren't they the same? No, loved by my parents, but maybe I'm in daycare with a relative, so I at least need to feel significant and connected and safe and loved. And we have three more that come a little bit later. These ones are from a newborn baby, seen and heard, celebrated, and to have at least one person to be proud of you. And what you're saying, actually, which is so sad, is that almost none of your core needs were met. You didn't feel safe, you weren't really seen and heard. You felt different, you didn't feel significant, you weren't particularly celebrated, you were treated as different. And for a kid to feel different is the bane of your life, it's like walking. Walking through the world with a curse. To feel different for a child is just terrible. It's great as an adult, but as a child, because we connect by being the same. You lived with an aunt, then another aunt. So you know the parents are in Canada, you're left behind in Lebanon. So you felt different. And then you've got that very sad belief, which is I have to earn love. It's not freely given. And so now you're walking through the world with what I call is a curse. I'm different, love isn't available to me, I don't have unconditional love, and I've got to be good. I've got to earn love. And in fact, when you're a child and you're not sure that you belong, there's only four ways you can behave. And each way is designed to get a place in the group. So imagine your parents love you and you know you won't do this. But if you're not sure that you're loved is for you, you've got four choices. I'm interested in what yours was. The first is to be sick. For a child, if you're not sure you're loved, but you're sick and your parents are buying you organic, gluten-free flour, or putting special cream on your ex or taking you to different surgeons because you've got a headache, you think, oh, look at that. You don't love me, but you're worried about me. For a child being sick is the very next best thing to being loved. The second way to behave is to be the brilliant one, to be the kid who's really academic or very sporty. Because then you think, well, you might not love me, but you're proud of me. And of course, in a tribe, if you were the fastest hunter, put a dwelling up in a couple of hours, you are now indispensable. So that's the second behavior we choose. I'll be the brilliant one. The third way, which I definitely chose, was the carer. We look out and think, oh, why don't I give what I haven't got? I'll I'll clean the house with my mum, I'll do everything, I'll look after the other kids, I'll I'll take on all those chores. Because the carer says, I'm going to give you what I haven't got and hope you give it back to me, but often they don't, so it's very unbalanced. And the fourth way is to be the difficult, rebellious child who's taking all the power away from the adults because there's nothing left. So sick, brilliant carer or difficult rebel, which one were you?

SPEAKER_00 24:13

I saw myself in two and a half of those. Brilliant. Brilliant. Brilliant. I excelled in school and also in not just academically, but I was I was the one that my principal during morning lineup would call me up and tell everybody I want you to be like her.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

And did you know that you were doing that because it would make you feel significant and safe? No. But you can see it now.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I think I did it because I I was too afraid of not being that way. Yeah. Because I have a very, very kind mom who was extremely good to everybody in her life. She always put everybody ahead. She was to this day, people tell me, your mom's the best. Like she walks into a room and everybody just their energy is calm and but why did she leave you behind?

SPEAKER_01 25:13

When she went to Canada, why did they not take you with them?

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Initially, it was because she was trying to help my aunt and uncle, because they had a store in Canada, a clothing store. And so if my uncle could leave the store and go and be with his family, somebody had to watch over it. So my mom would go to Canada and leave me with them. And it just ended up not working in my favor at all. Because I think my mom, what even when I talk to her to this day about that, she says, you know, in my mind, I'm leaving you in safe hands. I didn't know that the situation was like that, and I didn't know that you felt that way.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

Um, which it sounds like she put your uncle's needs above your needs. You had a need to have your mother there.

unknown 26:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Your uncle needed someone to look after the shop so he could be with his family. So in order for him to get his needs met, your needs seem to not count.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Yes. Or for his children to have time with both of their parents at the same time. But I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

So you they got what they wanted and you got what they didn't want. So they got their parents and you lost yours. Yes. That must have been very hard to reconcile.

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Oh, yeah. That it was, and it still is to this day. When I think back to some stories and some ways that I felt, I end up uh in a very uh weak, weak position, uh where I kind of dive back into how I felt in the moment. And and I have to remind myself we're not there anymore. But but I do understand the power of feeling how sad and angering that was, or how humiliating that was, or how embarrassing that was at the time. And uh I'd like to believe that I got to a point in my life where I'm able to recognize the difference between you treated me that way because I deserved it, because something about me fundamentally made me deserve that you treat me as less or that I'm on the margin.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

That's the ownership bit, trying to make sense of it, owning it is like, oh, you treated me like that because it was my fault. I guess I asked for it, but of course that's not true. And you have a sister, how many siblings do you have?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Well, I have two sisters and three brothers, or were the same parents? Yes, but my parents had all five of them right after each other, and then eight years later they had me. So I always felt like Are you the youngest? Yes, okay, so I always felt like you know, I was a mistake, and I I came along as my siblings were, you know, the youngest ones who are twins were eight years older than me, and my oldest sister was 15 years older than me. So I came along when they were already at much older stages in their lives, and so you know, when I think of my life right now, I'm 36. I just turned 36. I have my doctorate in education, and I'm currently doing another master's degree in psychotherapy. I am about to publish my seventh book. I have done so much that I'm so aware that there is a part of me from a very young age that has always felt like I need to catch up. I need to catch up, I need to catch up. I'm waiting for it. Is that still running you? Not right now. I feel like now I'm at a point where I recognize how much potential I have, but I'm learning to slow down and say, I am where I'm supposed to be. I I spend a lot more time in that space. Whereas if you met me 10 years ago or even five years ago, I was always go, go, go. I did so much that there is a story that I actually share in in Welcome Home, where um I was teaching full-time, I was doing a full-time master's program in education. I was so I was going to school in the evenings twice a week to university, and then the other evenings I was tutoring. On Saturday, I was teaching at Saturday school, and on Sunday I was tutoring. So I was constantly going, going, going.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah, still trying to earn the love to earn it.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Oh, yeah. And still feeling completely empty, and like the only way that I could feel full or significant was by doing more, and it all was for others. And I couldn't be, I couldn't handle just not being productive. I suffered when I was not productive.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

And yeah, because of that, because of that belief that I have to earn it. Love, recognition, all the things I think you needed as a child. I think because you didn't get them, you were left with an interesting dialogue, which is, I've got to earn this. I've got to earn this. So do you think people can heal while staying in the same environment that hurt them? Are you still around? Your aunt, your uncle, your brothers, your sisters, your parents? Are they still in your life? Is question one. And question two is do you think we can truly heal while staying in the same environment that hurt us in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 31:02

So I don't believe that you can fully heal while you're in the same environment that broke you. I think you need enough distance from the environment so that you could get clarity. And I talk about that in the One Who Broke You Can't Heal You, as one of the cardinal rules, is that you need to completely disconnect from the people who hurt you because when you're with them, you're constantly confronted with this wall of who they are, how they treated you in the past, and how they see you and how they made you feel about yourself. And so it's it's very close, kind of like standing in front of the mirror and zooming in on one pimple that you have, and that's all you can see. But with distance, you're able to have clarity. And instead of saying they did those things to me because, and then you go back to the belief they created within you, which is you're insignificant, you're not as important as the other people who we treated right. They instead of saying they treated me that way because I'm insignificant, I don't deserve better treatment, something's wrong about me, you say they treated me that way because that's who they are. The only way for you to be able to genuinely heal is by drawing that distance between you and the source of the pain. And then your other question, are they still in my life? They are, but I don't see them often. So my aunt and uncle, for example, I saw them about three weeks ago. I was invited to an engagement party and they were there. And it made me realize like I left that event and I cried for a whole hour. I cried the whole way home. It made me realize that I thought I was fully healed, but I clearly wasn't. And so I made a promise to myself that I wouldn't put myself in an environment where they're there until I feel completely ready to be in their presence.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

I was so triggered and because so often you go back, you know, if your parents treat you as a stupid one or the one who pays for everything, then whenever you're in that environment, you tend to go back. I mean, I love this statement. We play the only part we've ever known, and then we make that part our very own. So if you're the one in your family who fixes all the arguments, if you're the one that everyone looks after, the minute you're in a family event, you go back to playing that part. Maybe you're the argumentative one or the caring one or the funny one. But often we do have to pull away from those family and pull away from that tribe to think, you know, I only behave like that with them. It's why so many things like Christmas and Halloween and holidays bring up this same behavior. Think, wow, why do I want to go to my family? When I first had visit my mother, the minute I got in her house, I'd want to eat chocolate. It was so bizarre, like a crazy person. I'd say, Mom, have you got any chocolate? No, I haven't got any. I was got any chocolate? No, I haven't. And I remember when I was a kid, she never let me have chocolate. And I knew she would hide it, I knew she had it. I thought, well, this is insane. I'm in my mother's house, I'm 32. I'm like, have you got any chocolate? She said, No. I waited in the room, I ran in her kitchen, I found a kit cat. And I was standing in her bathroom eating it, thinking, Is there something wrong with this picture? You're 32 years old, you've got loads of money, you're eating a Kit Kat in your mother's toilet with a door locked. This is not normal. And then, of course, I began to understand the pattern. My mother would always deny me chocolate, even though she had it, she wouldn't ever give it to me. Wow. If my grandmother sent stuff or she'd hide it all and we never got it. I thought, I have to break this pattern. So I said, Mum, I'm gonna go to the store. And I came back with bags of I said, here's all these cakes and creates. I said, just keep it in the house. When I come to visit, I'd like you to have a chocolate biscuit. You can have as much of it as you like, but just keep a few for me. Because I thought, I'm never gonna do that again. Ask her, can I have chocolate? And here I say no at 32 years old, and then go and steal it from her cupboard like a crazy person, eat it locked in the toilet. But that's the patterns we play out. The brain is so patterned, both good and bad. And when you go back to the family, all these patterns come up until you break them. And I've heard it can take five generations to break a pattern. But for me, it was so important to break that pattern there and then to say, you know what? And I noticed for years before then that I'd go to someone's house and I'd always want to look through their covers for chocolate. And I had loads of chocolate in my house that I didn't even eat. People send it to me all the time. But in someone else's house, I wanted it. I remember going to my friend's house thinking, gosh, it's so nice. I don't eat sugar now. I'm not actually looking for it or wanting it. But it that that little girl who was never allowed it always came up. You know, you we think we're so smart and grown up, but I always remember that sitting in my mother's kitchen thinking, this is crazy behaviour, and I'm not crazy. But of course, you can't fix what you don't understand, you can't heal what you don't feel. So we have to look back and go, okay, here's a pattern. I found the pattern, I've understood the pattern, and now I'm gonna change it. I found the pattern of me wanting chocolate only when I'm around my mother. I've made sense of it. Don't beat myself. This is normal. Your mother did this weird thing of denying you the very stuff that she was eating. It's not like no one has it. It's like, oh, you can't have it, but I'm gonna have it. But the third bit of you've got to change the pattern right there. And then you've got to say to people, look, I won't allow you to talk to them. I won't allow you to treat me like that. It's not okay for you to do that or say that. I'm not okay with this. Or the great words, I just don't feel comfortable with this kind of behavior. So we can find the pattern, I'm saying it, we really have to change it. So would you say healing is about forgetting the past or changing your relationship with it? This is really just about you. Did you have to forget the past or did you have to change your relationship with it?

SPEAKER_00 37:16

I think the part where I forgot the past was very protective. Of course. It was only so that if I remembered it, I would be in so much pain. And so I forgot many parts. Even in my adult years, certain stories that happened, I'm sometimes hit like a it feels like a lightning bolt that I remembered this really bad thing that happened a few years ago. And I'm like, how did I forget that? You know, if I'm telling somebody a story and I'm like, this person did this and this and that. And then when that friend of mine leaves, I'm like, oh my God, I forgot this really terrible story. How could I forget it? And then I'm reminded that was protective. But I I am I'm a firm believer that you don't have to forget in order to forgive. You can you can decide to forgive, but forgiveness for me doesn't mean what they did was okay.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

No.

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Or that, oh, all of a sudden, you know, it's been so long. Like it's fine. We all make mistakes. No, the impact of what you did on me at the time, did to me at the time, is still with me. I don't care how long it's been. I can forgive you by saying what you did to me no longer has power over me. That doesn't mean I'll allow you back into my life. It doesn't mean that I'll allow you to have the same level of closeness or intimacy with me anymore. But I can I can forgive without forgetting, so that I don't ever allow myself to accept that same kind of behavior from anyone else. Sometimes not everything is forgivable too. Like sometimes you can tell yourself, you know what, I can move past that without forgiving. And it's not about holding a grudge, it's about saying, what you did in no way, shape, or form will ever not hurt me when I think back to it. Not because you have that power over me, but because I have empathy toward myself and I will never be able to rationalize being in that position that you put me in.

SPEAKER_01 39:38

And when you said to people from your past, you hurt me, because all people are evolved, and clearly you're very evolved, understand these words, you hurt me. I was hurt when I felt deeply hurt because I was hurt by. Yeah. But again, we have this belief that the person will go, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. Let me make amends. But they often they go, Well, let me tell you about my life, or oh, you're not remembering that correctly. So when you said to certain people, you hurt me, how did they react? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Uh okay. I can tell you about my conversations with my mom because I've never had a conversation with my aunt and uncle about this. Uh, but I do know that they know that I talk about these things, but they've never approached me to say, you know, we're sorry, or and I just can't see myself being in those conversations with them.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

I just can't and their children who witnessed it, your cousins, what about them? Have they ever come to you and said that wasn't right or that wasn't fair, we feel bad about it?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

They've never they do talk to me about their current issues because I am somebody who back when you asked me which character did I take on, and I said the brilliant one and the carer. I of course still like that to this day.

SPEAKER_01 40:56

Well, you write those books to help other people, so you have to be the carer because all of your material, your poetry, your books to help other people benefit from your pain. And that's what a carer does. They go, How can I make sense of this? Exactly. Does someone else benefit from my pain? And if so, then maybe I can make peace with it. So I of course you're the carer, but you can be a brilliant carer, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 41:20

Right? Yes. And so my cousins will come up to me, they'll share stories from their current life that are happening, and they tell me your writings help me, and you wrote this thing the other day, and I just want to tell you a story that recently happened with me that ties to that. And I I genuinely love them, I care for them, and I want them to be happy, and I want them to feel validated in their pain. But I always end up feeling like I'm always the one who pushes my pain down because I know so much, and because I'm the one that people come to when they're going through something. And so I actually I wrote a section about that in the book where I said I feel like I would disappoint people if I said, look at what I'm experiencing, look at what I'm going through, because they would look at me and say, Well, I came to you with a much worse story, and you helped me with it, you helped me get out of it. And so there's still an element of me not giving myself permission to feel the pain of what people did to me, even when I'm in conversation with them. I I I step out of my own story to give them the empathy that they need, and I forget about the ways I was impacted. So when I've had conversations with my mom, who genuinely is the kindest person you will ever meet about those earlier experiences years ago, I feel like her responses were extremely protective of herself because I don't think she wanted to see just how badly her and my dad's choices affected me when I was young, because her intention obviously to hurt me. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 43:20

I mean, very rarely is the intention to hurt you. You know, I was working with an interesting family. Many years ago, I worked with this guy who was so successful but very, very addicted to drugs and couldn't quite get over this addiction. And when we did a session, it was all about being sent to boarding school at five in a different country. And during the holidays, the teachers would be paid to take him home with them. So he didn't see his parents for two years. So now he's five, and his feeling is you've sent me away because I disappointed you. But then his brother, who was sent to the same school, said, Oh, well, I thought, gosh, they've sent my brother away. He must have been bad. I better be really good. So they've all got their stories. So we've got one kid at school who's feeling as I was. Disappointment, they put me here, they don't care, I'm not lovable. The next one was, Wow, they got rid of my brother, I'll be next unless I'm perfect. But then I worked with a mother who said, I gave them the best thing in the world. I gave them a private education in a boarding school. Why should I feel bad about it? It was so interesting that she either couldn't or wouldn't see. She was very aware that both these kids were so damaged, but she was still telling herself a story. I sent my children overseas, they got a beautiful English education. I did the best I can. I did the they were so lucky. I I never had that. I spent a lot of money on them. So you can have a whole family, and each of them has a different story.

SPEAKER_02 44:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

And each of their stories is valid, and we can't change the story. We have to change how we feel about the story. So you know, I see so many people who sit in my chair and tell me the same story. I can't let someone love me. If you love me, what's wrong with you? If I let you love me, you're gonna hurt me. This is all great, but I can't cope with the pain. So let me act out early on and end this before it hurts me. So you must see so many intelligent, capable, lovable, beautiful people who stay in very unhealthy relationships because it always goes back to the same thing. I'm not really worthy of love. So it's quite a personal question, but how's this affected your intimate relationships with a partner?

SPEAKER_00 45:25

Have the experiences I've gone through in my earlier years?

SPEAKER_01 45:29

How have your experiences affected your ability to let someone love you and be loved by you?

SPEAKER_00 45:34

I think I went to the complete opposite side of what you just described, which is if I let you close enough, you know, then then what's why why would you love me? It was a complete opposite. It's more it was more like I want love so much that I'm willing to accept it in whatever form you give it to me. Yeah. And if that love goes away, then I'm going to be hypersensitive to signs that it's going away. Because um, going back to a certain story that you were sharing with the chocolate, um there's a story that I that happened, I would say four years ago. I was at my sister's house, and my at the time nine-year-old niece wanted to go to my brother's house to play with with his kids. And my sister said to her, they're not home. And my niece literally stomped her feet on the ground and said, You're lying. You just don't want me to go. And I felt like I was maybe 34 or 33 at the time, but looking at her, I was like, That's me, but right now, because I was like that when I was little. You're lying to me. You're telling me that uh my cousins aren't home because you know they're going to have ice cream or they're going for a nice long drive that you don't want me to go on. And I saw myself in that reaction, and I was like, I have so much to heal from. Um and the the way I titled it in The One Who Broke You Can't Heal You is don't let seven-year-old you drive the car of your life. That's what I was doing. And so going back to that question of love, that little girl wanted so badly for someone to consider her, for someone to include her, for someone to say, Oh, you like that kind of snack. I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring it to you and I'm gonna surprise you with it. Uh, so in my adult relationships, I found myself feeling so loved if somebody just included me in in anything, in any part of their life. And now I realize that's not actually what love is. Those are those are basic bare minimum elements of love, but that's not the whole of love. If somebody's including me, but they're speaking to me in words that don't resemble me, they're saying really mean things about me, they're not celebrating me when when I publish a book or when I book a really great speaking gig or when I have uh a trip somewhere, if they're not celebrating me, if they're not asking me, how are you, how was your day, they're not showing me care in those ways, then if they include me in a in a day where they're going to socialize with their friends, I can't say, well, at least they're doing this thing where they're including me. And that was the biggest thing I struggled with when I was young, therefore they love me. I have to look at the whole of the love that they're offering me. But I clung on to the, well, at least they're doing this thing that my own family couldn't do for me when I was little. I took small moments and saw them as huge grand gestures of love. And I wanted more. So it's interesting that you asked me this question because a couple of weeks ago with my therapist, I was going back to some stories and then bringing them back to my adult relationships. And uh, I said one thing that my therapist said, you need to write that down and keep going back to it. And it is, I don't want your crumbs. I don't want your crumbs because that's what it always felt like. It was an afterthought. It was a, I know that's what it takes to keep her hooked, so I'll give her that here and there so that she can stay.

SPEAKER_01 50:00

What was it like when you I know you're a teenager, you moved from Lebanon to Canada, such a different culture, a different everything. What was that like to be a teenage girl going from Lebanon to Canada? Because you already felt different. You already felt different. Yeah, you felt love wasn't available, you already felt that you didn't belong. So you were disconnected, different, and felt less worthy of love. And now suddenly you've gone from Lebanon to Canada. Talk me through what that was like for you as that teenage girl.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

So at the time I was covered, I was wearing the hijab, so I was already feeling extremely different on top of the cultural clash. And when I got here, my parents were already here, and all of my siblings, with the exception of my sister, who was married in Lebanon with kids, and I had stayed with her for the two months before I came back, or before I came to Canada. And so back there, I was comfortable in the discomfort. And then I've learned how to adapt to you're living in a different house based on whoever can take care of you. You don't have any friends. You have the one friend who doesn't even live in the same area you live in. You just see her at school. You don't have the same experiences that you see your friends in school have, where they go shopping with their parents and they they they go places with their parents. It's like I got to a point where I kind of submitted to that reality. And then coming here took that reality away from me, even though that wasn't a comfortable reality. But I learned how to navigate it. So when I came here, I felt extremely lost, extremely out of place, and I couldn't draw the connections that were broken between me and my parents, and me and my siblings. So I felt like an isolated person who was in so much pain. And I've talked about this in previous books, but that's when I actually ripped up my journal and I said, I'm never writing again. That was the beginning of me not writing and me not feeling. I kind of submitted to the fact that I have no control over my life. I go wherever my family wants me to go. And that's it. I'm gonna, I'm gonna continue going down that path that they want for me. That's like go to university, become either an engineer or a doctor or or something big and just accomplish, accomplish, accomplish, accomplish. And so that's what I did. When I think back to those years between the age of 16 and 21, 22, when I started expressing myself again and writing poetry, I see those years in black and white. I was miserable. It took me a long time to start seeing that I'm actually my own person. And remember how there was one part where you said you take on the role within your family, for example, that has given you. And you know what my role was? One of my roles is I'm the child. So I'm the one that they all look at as like you know, she's a kid because I am that much younger than them. Or so that put me in a place where I always saw them as knowing better, or them as knowing what's best for me. And so that stopped my development into my own person. It stopped my individual.

SPEAKER_01 53:50

Because you felt less if they were the knowing ones, then you must have been less than. Yes. And then when you have that thing about I'm less than, I'm not enough, I'm not worthy, again, it's so pervasive. It just you take it with you everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_00 54:04

And I need their approval. And of course, you don't save me. They can save me when I'm in distress. So I I've always, and because I took on that role of being a perfectionist, um, because I had to be, it was like accomplish, be the best. You're a good girl, you're you're you never make mistakes.

SPEAKER_01 54:27

But that's another curse, of course, because when you're trying to be perfect, it's the fastest way to be lonely and dissatisfied. You want to be lonely and dissatisfied with yourself, try to be perfect. Perfect people are the unhappiest, loneliest people, because it doesn't exist. And even if you could reach that pinnacle of perfect, the basis of all friendship is we choose people who share our vulnerabilities. So someone who has no vulnerabilities tends to have no friends. Someone who appears to be perfect is very alone. What you're saying is interesting because you you're trained to be a psychotherapist, you're going to find this out. The most vexing thing for therapies about the human brain is it wants what is familiar and known.

SPEAKER_02 55:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:05

Even if that's painful. So the brain is very wired to go back to what I know. If I know criticism, if I know rejection, if I know being put down, I'm going to find someone who does that very attractive. And we think, why did you go out with him? I mean, what were you doing with her? And we'll say, you know, I met this person, we just clicked, and I felt like I don't because that's your dad or your mum. So the hardest thing for the brain is it wants what is familiar and known. And the most painful way that plays out is in loving relationships. So if you haven't had love and someone offers it to you, you think, what's the catch here? What's wrong with you? Why do you want to be with me? Or oh, this is not going to work, or because we don't believe we're worth it. So this is familiar and I want to go here, and this is unfamiliar, and I don't want to go here. And and we actually reject love and even wealth, we even reject money if it's unfamiliar, which is why 75% of lottery winners are bankrupt in three years, and 90% of inherited wealth is all gone in three generations. So if love is unfamiliar, if money is even if praise is unfamiliar, we start to reject it and go back over here. And I know this. So this is an absolute fact. Your brain wants what is already familiar. I know, but here's another fact. You have to make what is unfamiliar familiar. And it starts a lot with praise. I'm lovable, I'm worthy of love. And you have to ask yourself, am I just going back to this because it's familiar? You know, my dad was my school teacher, so I felt like a freak. And I took that with me for a long time until I realized that long after I'd left home, I wasn't attending my dad's school. I didn't feel like the weirdest kid in the school because my dad was also the principal. I still felt like the weirdest person because I took it with me. And I had to do a little bit of work, not a lot, to say, oh, this is just familiar. And of course, my dad being a teacher, I mean, my my issue wasn't anything like on the level of yours, but I learned I had to earn his love and work for his love and get his approval. I took that with me too. So the brain loves these patterns, and we have to go, okay, this is just familiar. I can make it unfamiliar. I can make what's unfamiliar familiar and what's familiar unfamiliar. So you've done a lot of therapy, I take it. Have you done much inner child work? Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 57:26

I've done so much inner child work.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

And have you gone back and found that little kid and become a loving parent to her? I have. And did you find that really effective?

SPEAKER_00 57:37

It was effective, but it took a long time for it to work. Um, it took my little self quite a bit of time to even turn and look at me because she was so because it's so unfamiliar. So unfamiliar, and she was so consumed by looking in the other direction of the love that she wasn't getting. She was so consumed by how do I get that? And so I had to visit multiple times and create that that familiarity in some way that I was gonna be there and I'm not going away until you feel safe enough to actually come with me. And um, but but I I wouldn't say I'm fully healed. I don't think anybody's fully healed. I still go through moments where I'm reminded of certain things. I get triggered and I go back to a story when I was really little, and I say, okay, I I still need to have a conversation with little me in that moment because she started developing a certain belief back then that we need to have a conversation about right now. Like currently in my life, when I have moments where I think back to somebody who really, really hurt me, and I'm sucked into the pain uh and sucked into the that's not fair. Like, how could they have done that and now they're happy with their life? Not that I know that, it's my my mind is telling me these stories. Like this person hurt you, and they took no accountability and they just moved on with their life as if you're nothing. And then I go into the well, you are nothing. And so then I'm reminded by these stories that I learned when I was really, really, really small that I shouldn't have learned, that nobody deserves to learn.

SPEAKER_01 59:31

And and you've talked a lot about the people that hurt you, but let's do something more from more because that's obviously very familiar. Tell me about the people that loved you, because what I've heard you say a lot, and very valid, is how many people hurt you, and that's familiar, but I want to hear about the people that loved you and nourished you and nurtured you. And maybe that wasn't familiar enough, but where did you get love in your life? And right up to today, this minute, not including yourself, who in your life has given you great love and really nurtured you and nourished you from the inside out?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:03

I would say it's my friends. Okay. My friends and my little nieces and nephews.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:10

And do you have a loving relationship? Are you in a loving relationship with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:15

I'm not right now. Would you like to be in a relationship?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Of course. And when were you last in a wonderful, deep, loving relationship?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:23

Uh, a few years ago. Well, I thought that's what it was, but I don't think that's what it was. Looking back at it, I don't think I think it was again the well, at least they're including me. They're they're doing these things with me, they're going on walks with me and drives with me, all of which were the birdcams again. Yeah, they were the things that meant a lot to me. Do you want to do a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Do you want to do a little bit of inner child work right now? Because I think for you and your audience, if we could just make something familiar, who's loved me and something unfamiliar, who's hurt me, I think it would help you because your brain, of course, is going to what's familiar, being hurt. Um, but I want you to go to being loved. And of course, the only thing you need ever to have love, to have a deep loving relationship is one thing. And that one thing is I'm worthy of it and I deserve it. But you need to really wire that in. We're so busy trying to change our weight, our shape, our size, our hair, our outfits, our job description to find love. But everyone's worthy of love. But I think if we could just do a bit of familiar, unfamiliar right now for you. Okay, yeah, all the women watching, we think, wow, I can do that too. So let's just do that. I I want you to go to an alpha brain wave. All that requires is rolling up your eyes, keeping them up, and closing the lids. So just look up as high as you can, keep your eyeballs up, close the lids down. That's perfect. And then just open your eyes and we'll do it a little bit deeper. So open your eyes, look up, right up, as if you're trying to look at your eyebrows. Breathe in and out, and again breathe in and out. And again, breathe in, keep your eyeballs up. And this time, as you exhale, keep your eyeballs up, but at the same time, just close your eyelids all the way down. You'll feel that fluttering sensation in your eyelids straight away. Just drop your chin, drop your chin so you have that looking down sensation. Forget all about the position of your eyeballs. And just imagine you're looking down 10 steps, you're moving on to step 10 and 9, going deeper into an awareness of yourself. You're taking step eight and seven, going deeper. You're taking step step six and five. Every sound, every noise is flowing through you, taking you deeper. As you take step four, the sound of your heartbeat is taking you deeper. As you take step three, the sound of your breathing is taking you deeper. As you take step two, you can see your feet, hear your feet, feel your feet taking you deeper. You're now taking step one. And as you go deeper, deeper, deeper, even deeper. I want you to imagine you can just go back in time. You're looking at a screen. You're looking at you on the screen wearing this blue dress. And you're literally reaching out and pressing rewind. And as you press rewind, you're going back in time. You're traveling back, moving back. Years, months, weeks, days are being peeled away from your body. You go back. The movie of your life is rewinding, rewinding. All of a sudden it's stopping. At that little girl who's being dropped off with some relatives. She's just a little kid, and her mother's going to work. And if she's not being dropped off with a family member, she's being dropped off in daycare. I want you to imagine. You can go back and claim that little girl who doesn't have her mother all to herself, who doesn't have something just for her. And I want you to imagine going back and finding that little girl who's in daycare or who's relatively. I want you to imagine picking her up and literally taking her back to wherever you live in the world today. I want you to imagine suddenly you're standing outside the door of your own apartment or house. And as you walk through the door, I want you to say some things out loud that may seem silly, but you're going to make them familiar. And I want you to say out loud, I'm becoming a loving parent to you now. I'm becoming a loving parent to you now. No one in the whole world can play this role of loving parent to you like I can.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

No one in this whole world can play the role of a loving parent to you than I can now.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:57

I love you completely.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:59

I love you completely.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:01

I love you unconditionally.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

I love you unconditionally.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

I will always have time for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

I will always have time for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:11

I'll always listen to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

I'll always listen to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:15

There's nowhere I'd rather be in the whole world than by your side.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

There's nowhere I'd rather be in the whole world than by your side.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:24

The joy of my life is to parent you. The joy of my life is to parent you. I think you're beautiful. I think you're beautiful and smart. And smart and compelling. And compelling. You're everything. You're everything. I love you so much. I love you so much. You're so worthy of love.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

You're so worthy of love.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:50

And all of your life you're going to find love.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:53

And all of your life you're going to find love.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:56

And keep love. And keep love. Because you're so Lovable.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:01

Because you're so lovable.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:02

So I want you to put your arms around that little girl, and I want you to either rock her or soothe her. And I want you again to say these words. I love you. I love you. I believe in you. I believe in you. I'm always here supporting you. I'm always here supporting you. I'll always have time for you. I'll always have time for you. You and I have balance now. You and I have balance now. There's nothing we can't do. There's nothing we can't do. You're safe with me. You're safe with me. I love you. I love you. I believe in you. I believe in you. I see you. I see you. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. And I'm celebrating you. And I'm celebrating you. While you hold that little girl, I want you to imagine all the things you wanted to hear. And I want you to start saying them. I want you to say, you belong. We belong to each other.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:05

Say that we belong to each other.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:07

I'll always have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

I'll always have you.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:11

You'll always have me.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:12

You'll always have me.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:14

You are so lovable.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:16

You are so lovable.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:18

You're worthy of love.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:19

You're worthy of love.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:21

You're worthy of everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:22

You're worthy of everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

You deserve everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:26

You deserve everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:27

You belong to life.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:29

You belong to life.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

You'll always be a part of life.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

You'll always be a part of life.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:35

You will always feel a sense of belonging everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:39

You will always feel a sense of belonging everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

The universe that put you here.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:45

The universe that put you here is supporting you completely.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:49

Is supporting you completely. As you feel a sense of belonging. As you feel a sense of belonging. And connection. And connection. And worthiness of love. And worthiness of love. You belong to life. You belong to life. And life belongs to you. And life belongs to you. You're lovable. You're lovable. You're enough. You're enough. You're worthy. You're worthy. You matter. You matter. And you find connection. And you find connection. And love. And love. Everywhere you go. Everywhere you go. What else would you like to say to that little girl? You see, you know even more than me. The words you didn't hear. The phrase, the senses you long to hear, deserve to hear. And I want you to say them right now. Just hold that little girl and say, you are. And just add in whatever you didn't hear.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:47

You are. You are beautiful. You are very smart. Not just in school. You are very creative. You are very whimsical. You find joy in the littlest things. And don't don't ever let that no one will ever take that away from you. Uh you are very kind and attuned to the people around you. And you deserve to have people think of the things that would make you happy and do them just because they love you. You deserve to have someone to pay attention. You deserve to feel like your presence alone is enough. You deserve to feel rested in people's love and not like you always have to perform. You deserve the peace, real inner peace, not just the absence of bad things or I want you to say to that little girl, you are worthy of love. You are worthy of love.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

You don't have to earn it. You don't have to earn it. Or chase it. Or chase it. Or buy it. Or buy it. Or work for it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

Or work for it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:31

Love is available to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Love is available to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:35

You are so lovable.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

You are so lovable.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:38

You can give and receive love. You can give and receive love. You're worthy of love.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:44

You're worthy of love.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:45

And you easily give love. And you easily give love. And you easily receive it.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

And you easily receive it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:53

And you are completely filled and nourished by the love that surrounds you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

And you are completely filled and nourished by the love that surrounds you.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

For the rest of your long, gorgeous life.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

The rest of your long, gorgeous life.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:07

And I want you to imagine taking that little girl into your home and going into your living room. I'm sure you must have a smart TV and probably Alexa. Which you didn't have when you were four. They didn't exist. And even if they did, most four-year-olds don't have Alexa or Sonas. So I want you to look at all the stuff you have, from your smartphone to your credit card to your driving license. I want you to look at all the stuff you have that was not available when you were four or eight or ten or even fifteen. It's there now because you got it. I want you to walk into your bedroom and open your closet and look at all the clothes, all the stuff you have that you got. You didn't have that stuff. You were covered when you came to Canada. And now you're free. You can wear whatever you want. I want you to look at your bed and I want you to imagine that you go to bed every night and wake up everyone in the arms of someone who loves you, cherishes you, and puts you first because you know you're worth it. I want you to really take a minute and look at your bed and think, yeah. I can really imagine going to sleep and waking up in the arms of a man who adores me, cherishes me, puts me first, and is worthy of me.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:17

And I'm worthy of him. I want you to really feel it. Not just see it. I want you to feel his arms around you. I want you to hear his voice, hear him saying all those things like, Wow, how lucky am I to have found you? You are the most important person thing in my world. I want you to hear it. I want you to see it. I want you to feel it, to feel that feeling of always having someone who has your back. I want you to smell the smell of his skin. I want you to taste that feeling of having someone that loves you unconditionally and puts you first. Because I want you to start to make this familiar. So as you see yourself lying in the arms of someone who cherishes you, as you see it, as you feel yourself enveloped in some arms that love you, as you hear all the things that person says to you, you're the best thing that ever happened to me. As you smell and taste it, I want you to get your brain to make this familiar, to say, this is familiar. I am making this familiar. I want you to see the kind of person you want to share your life with, and I want you to wire it in and code it into your brain. I want you to see this every day because your brain will go to what is familiar. Every time you get into bed, I want you to mentally imagine that lovely man is there, stroking your hair, bringing you coffee in the morning, leaving little notes on the bedside table for you, picking you up wherever you are in the world, showing you that you matter. I want you to really see all the little things they do and say to put you first. And I want you to start to see this every time you get into bed, every time you get up, I want you to see toothbrushes in the glass. I want you to see two coffee cups on the draining board. I want you to see two of everything, two sets of running shoes, yours and his in the hall. I want you to really see yourself attracting someone who loves you, cherishes you, and shows you that you are the most important person. Imagine going back to the closet and now seeing all their clothes hanging up. Imagine going into the bathroom, seeing your products and his products all mixed up together. Maybe you have a shelf each, but you all your stuff is all there. His shower gel, yours, his products, yours, his vitamins, yours. Go into the kitchen and see. Everything you have is for two. You're buying dinner for two, you have his stuff, his kind of coffee, his kind of milk in the fridge. And I want you to make this and see his car on the drive, his car keys in the hall, his wallet on the nightstand. And I want you to say again, I'm worth all of this and I deserve it. I want you to say it over and over again, I'm worth it, I deserve it, I'm worth it, I deserve it. Keep saying it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:06

I'm worth it, I deserve it, I'm worth it, I deserve it. I want you to really state it, affirm it, and embody it louder. I'm worth it, I deserve it. I'm worth it. I deserve it. I'm worth it, I deserve it. I'm worth it, I deserve it. I really true, truly believe that. I'm worth it and I deserve it.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:30

Because when you do this, one of four things happen. The first is, wow, I like this. Yeah, I really believe it. I'm gonna do it a lot until it's my reality. I like it, it feels good, I'm gonna keep doing it. I'm making it familiar. That's what you want to make it so familiar that the brain forgets everything else except this is familiar. The second thing that happens is sometimes we feel very tearful and sad as we do this. And the third thing is we can feel angry. That Marissa Pears telling me all this stuff. And the fourth is to be dismissive. This is just woo, but it's not, it's quantum physics. Quantum physics says your energy, you vibrate at a frequency. I want you to vibrate at the frequency of being loved, adored, cherished, and worshipped. Because the faster you do that, the faster it will become your reality. Yes, your word shape, your reality. I am worthy of love. I am worthy of love. I deserve it. I deserve it. So much love is available to me. So much love is available to me. I attract it, I attract it, and I maintain it. And I maintain it for the rest of my life. For the rest of my life. So I'm gonna give you just a few more things to say. And these are going to be I am instead of you. I want you to say, I am so lovable. I am so lovable. I am so worthy of love. I am so worthy of love. I easily find love. I easily find love. I easily maintain it. I easily maintain it. I am deeply filled and nourished. I am deeply filled and nourished. By the love that surrounds me. By the love that surrounds me. And I fill and nourish others with love. And I fill and nourish others with love. Because I accept myself as lovable.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:14

Because I accept myself as lovable.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:17

I accept myself as worthy of love. I accept myself as worthy of love. I couldn't be more worthy of love. I couldn't be more worthy of love. What I want wants me. What I want wants me. What I am moving towards is moving towards me. What I am moving towards is moving towards me. The only thing I need to attract and maintain love. The only thing I need to attract and maintain love. An unshakable knowing. That I'm worthy of love. That I'm worthy of love. I have it right now. I have it right now. I amplify it every day. I amplify it every day. I'm moving to love. I'm moving to love. And love is moving towards me. And love is moving towards me. The love that I want wants me. The love that I want wants me. The love that I am moving towards is moving towards me.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:25

The love that I am moving towards is moving towards me.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:39

Add anything else at all.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:41

I I am able to attract the exact kind of love that I want, where I don't have to lower my expectations or become less of myself in order to be loved. I deserve a whole, full, real love for me and for who I actually am. I don't have to pretend, I don't have to dim my light.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

So let's make that all just in the present tense. Because you know, the brain doesn't really hear the word don't. It's not saying I don't think about a pink snowman. I'm now thinking of one. That makes sense. And the brain also doesn't work in the when you say I am able to, I want you to say I already have, because the brain also only works in one present and one tense. It's called right now. I am attracting this love right now. I am attracting this love right now. The most beautiful love is coming to me right now. The most beautiful love is coming to me right now. I have a beautiful relationship.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:40

I have a beautiful relationship.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:42

Based on respect. Based on respect. Caring. Paring. Caring. Connection significance. Caring. Caring, connection, significance. Connection, significance. I am so worthy of love. I am so worthy of love. I attract someone who knows it. I attract someone who knows it. Who returns it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:07

Who returns it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:08

And who shows me every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:10

And who shows me every day.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:12

That I'm the most important person in his life.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:15

That I'm the most important person in his life.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:18

And I always will be.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:19

And I always will be.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:21

And all I have to do is make this familiar.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:24

And all I have to do is to make this familiar.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:27

To drop into this every day.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

To drop into this every day. To see it. To see it. To feel it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:35

To feel it. To smell it. To taste it. To smell it. To hear it.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

To taste it.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:39

Hear it. So I want you to just imagine this is so familiar that you actually put two toothbrushes in your glass, that you put two mugs on the draining board, that you make a little karate chop in the other pillow on your bed. That you create a space in your closet. I'm not suggesting this new guy is going to move into your life, into your home. Maybe you'll get a new one together, but I want you to create a space and imagine it's filled so quickly. To create these twos, to create, put two tables, two plates on the table if you want, to put out two knives. It may sound silly, but you're telling your brain, I expect love. And here's one of the rules of your mind. What is expected tends to be realized. What you expect happens. I want you to every day just play this bit of the recording and imagine this great guy bringing you flowers, going out of his way to do little things for you, and big things too. Telling you we're together forever, we've got each other. It's not hard. People say, you know, a relationship is hard. A relationship is a wonderful thing where someone has your back and you have theirs. Yes. Just focus on what you want. Imagine it, see it, smell it, taste it, feel it. And the only thing you need to attract love is this one thing, a belief that you are worthy of it, an unshakable, unwavering belief that you are worthy of love. And how could you not be worthy of love? Even if you came through parents who didn't appear to really appreciate you, we come through our parents, not from them. The universe put you here. It gave you all your beauty, all your skills, all your gifts. The universe that put you on this planet wants you to find love. Yes. I believe that. It's supporting you a million percent. So let the universe do its job of sending love your way. And let you do your job of expecting it, believing in it, making it so familiar. And actually, none of this is hard. It's only unfamiliar. And if you say that, oh, this is not hard, it's unfamiliar. But as I do it every day, guess what? It becomes familiar. As I imagine this great guy turning up in my life in so fast, as I imagine it and see it and manifest it, you're making it familiar. All you have to do to find love is to know you're worthy of it. And all the doubt, unfamiliar, all the old habits of chasing it, earning it, unfamiliar, and saying, no, I can just receive it. Love is a place where you go to give and receive.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:16

So you have a beautiful heart. And your heart is like all hearts, it's a very functional heart. It knows it's been broken, it's repaired itself. In fact, if you want to make a muscle bigger, you must break it. You must do heavy weights, break it, and then it grows back bigger. And a heart is a muscle after all. And if your heart's been broken, you know what that means? It's just bigger and more beautiful than ever. You have a functional heart that knows exactly how to repair itself, how to give and receive love. And the more love you give, the more you receive, the more you receive, the more you give.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:49

And the cracks in your heart are like those beautiful Japanese vases filled with gold, filled. You say, just take a minute and look at your big, beautiful heart. You have such a functional heart. It knows one thing to give and receive love, it's bigger than ever, and it's ready for the most beautiful love. You've given so much of yourself to your readers, to your audience, because you have a beautiful heart. And now you can receive. You see, if you give, you have to receive. I want you to give a breath. Just breathe out, because you're a real giver. But don't breathe in. Just keep giving all that breath away because that's what a giver does. They just give and give and give. And so for four minutes, just continue to exhale. You notice very quickly, it doesn't actually feel very balanced. And I want you to take a breath in and then give that breath away. The first thing you do when you came on the planet was to take a breath, the second was to give it away. And nature wants balance of giving and receiving, receiving you're a giver. Because nobody gave to you, so you gave to them. But today it's time to get all the balance right to go. I give if I give a breath, I must take one. If I take one, I must give it. And so it is with love. I give and receive love. But I give and receive love to people who are worthy of my love, deserving of my love, and really recognize. So I want you to say that I give and receive love so easily.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:10

I give and receive love so easily.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:12

I know I'm worthy of love. I know I'm worthy of love. And I give my love to someone who has wonderful partner skills.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:20

And I give my love to someone who has wonderful partner skills.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:24

Who sees the joy of their life to be my partner?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:28

Who sees the joy of their life to be my partner?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:31

And we grow the most beautiful, loving relationship forever.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:35

And we grow the most beautiful, loving relationship forever.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:39

Because I'm worth it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:40

Because I'm worth it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:42

And as I know it. And as I know it. The whole world knows it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:46

The whole world knows it.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:48

Because it's the truth about me.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:49

Because it's the truth about me.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:51

So just go back to that little girl, and just for one more minute, I want you to say to her, I've created a place in my heart for you. I've created a place in my heart for you. I've created a place in my world for you. I've created a place in my world for you. I've created a place in my life for you. I've created a place in my life for you. And now you live in my world. And now you live in my world. In my heart. In my heart. In my body. In my body. In my life. In my life. You can't go back to that other world.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

You can't go back to that other world.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:27

Not even in your daydreams.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:29

Not even in your daydreams.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:31

I want you to feel that little girl who has said, stay in this room. This is family time. The little girl who was so disconnected and separate. I want you to feel her literally merging into you from your head down to your toes. She's like an energy. She is merging into you, dropping into you, taking up residence in you. That sweet little girl is taking up a place in your heart, your body, your life. She lives in you now. And as you install her into your world, as you code her and install her into your world, your body, your life, your heart, you can't go backwards. Life doesn't go back. And now instead of talking too much about those who hurt you, you start to talk about those who love you. This great man coming into your life to give you love, to show you by his every action that you're worthy of it, deserving of it. I want you to imagine a life now where you talk about the person who loved you, who came into your life to show you that you have a beautiful, functional heart. And of course, you're doing that yourself. But I want you to see yourself with this great guy who loves you, cherishes you, adores you because you are worth it and you deserve it. And as you massively elevate your sense of being worthy of love, deserving of love, ready for love, a good, beautiful kind of love, as you elevate that, you can only expand and never contract because what You want, wants you, and what you are moving towards is already moving towards you. And this can be so fast. And all you have to do is make it familiar, not hard, just familiar. So knowing it, feeling it, believing it. Just open your eyes and come back. And the feeling that little girl is melded into you, merged into you, is taken up residence in you. And you can parent yourself better than anyone else. How does that feel? Um it feels good.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:32

I feel peaceful inside. I feel yeah. I feel like I'm one, like I'm not fragmented.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:40

No, you're not you're not looking for your other half because you're already whole. You're not half a person. You're never looking for your other half. You don't need someone to complete, you're complete. Yes. You don't find love to complete you or to make you a the other. You find love because it's a place where you go to give and receive. It's about sharing. It's about saying, wow, this person's got my back and I've got theirs. We do stuff together. It's not about being half or feeling that you're nothing alone. It's about, I'm so worthy of love. Let me share it, because it's a wonderful thing. And I think also what you're doing today is helping all to go, wow, don't why don't I close my eyes and do this too? And of course, I want you to close your eyes, rewind the recording. And I want you to say those words, I'm worthy of love, I'm deserving of love. That little kid is in me. And I want you to say, I'm here loving you, believing in you. You're worthy of love. And I want you to have two toothbrushes in the mug. Make a dent in the spare pillow. Make a little dent as if the body is in the other part of your bed. Start to have two. Start to just imagine your life because when you create a vacancy, it gets filled. But the biggest thing the only thing you have to change is this belief that you're worthy. Nothing has to be snipped in, injected in, snipped off. Nothing has to be changed except one thing. You've got to walk around and say, I'm worthy of love over and over again. It will sink in.

unknown 1:30:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:09

Like butter sinks into warm bread. You see, if you introduce olive oil to warm bread, it goes in, but so does furniture polish, so does fly spray, so does gasoline. So be careful what you introduce, because it will all go in. Introduce the one thing that will work. I am worthy of it. Never say I'm meeting this guy. I hope he likes me, so I hope I like him. I hope he's at a level where we can share love. I believe I'm meeting someone at my level of having this beautiful, wonderful, nurturing love. And the more you believe you're worth it, the more you'll find it because that's one of the rules of the mind. It talks about it here. What you expect is realize. The brain wants what is familiar. And the more you make unworthy of love familiar, the more you'll expect it. And I had to do that. You know, I said my dad was a teacher. I really tried to earn his love. And then one day I realized how damaging that was. And I said, no, I don't need to do that. I'm just going to let love find me a good love, a worthy love, the kind of person that is worth being with. And then I met my husband, we were married in 10 months, and we're blissfully happy. But I had to change, you'd be so busy changing our hair, our wardrobe, our job description. None of that matters. Yes. The only thing you need to change is this. I am deeply worthy of say it. And notice if you feel sad or angry or dismissive, it's just not yet familiar enough. But if you keep doing it, it becomes familiar. You're worthy of love. You always have been. You always will be you. Everyone watching this, we are all worthy of love. But until we know it, we try to make other someone else's job to show us. But it's not their job, it's your job. You want to expand and never contract. Don't say to someone, Do you love me? Is that okay? Say, I'm so glad we found each other. How lucky are we? Don't ask someone if you're worthy of love. Tell them. You're lucky to be with me. You're lucky you found me. I'm lucky I found you. Yes. Elevate your sense of that. You know, if you want to find love, do three things really well. The first is massively elevate what you think you're worth. I think I'm worthy of love, I'm deserving of love, I'm worth it, worth it, worth it. Elevate that. Minimize the other, well, I'm 45, I have cellulite, I don't have a good. No, don't minimize all of that stuff. Whatever age you are, whatever your body is, you're worthy of love. Love is not about the numbers on your clothing and your bank account on the scales. Everyone's worthy of love. So minimize the negative self-talk, maximize the positive, and visualize the kind of person you want. If you can do those three things really well, you'll find love and it will find you. And it's just practice. I had to do that. I had to really think about the kind of person I wanted to share my life with, and I met him immediately. And he said he knew straight away. I I wasn't so sure. But he did a good job on me, and we got married in 10 months, and we've been so happy. But it's a process, maximize positive self-talk, minimize the negative self-talk, really minimize that. Visualise what you want. Your brain is a proof-making robot. The more you say I'm worthy of love, the more it says, let me prove it. The more you say, I've been so hurt, it starts to prove that too. So you have been very hurt. We must never diminish that. But your brain is a proof-making robot. I knew it. I knew that would go on. Well, there's a proof-making robot, does that? When you go, I knew I'd find love, I knew it would find me, I knew I'd find it immediately, and I knew it would last forever. This is a proof-making robot. Give it better things to prove. And let me know how quickly love finds you because I know it will. Yes. So you've been an amazing guest. Thank you so much for coming on.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:55

Of course. Thank you. And uh you the the the work you do is so amazing. And I know just listening to this conversation, so many people will benefit from it. And I hope they do the same thing I did when you were prompting me to say certain things and just to visualize certain things. I know that will make a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:19

Well, you know, we all come into the world and a baby has no concept, but it isn't worth a baby who's taken away from the parents at birth, a baby whose parent whose mother dies during the birth, they still believe they're worthy of love. There isn't a baby in the world that says, I've got to earn it, I'm not worth it, I should be good. Babies are born with a belief I'm worthy of love. After all, in the womb, it's like being in the four seasons, always 75 degrees, you have 24-hour room service, someone's always there. So we're born with this belief, someone is going to meet all my needs because I'm worth it. Nobody says, I'd not cry at night. My mum is exhausted, I shouldn't throw up. She's been ages washing those clothes and puring that broccoli. A baby doesn't have any of that, just has one belief, I'm worthy of love. And the thing is that you were born with it. So was everyone on this call. And so here's the question: what happened to it? Where did it go? Can you reactivate, remanifest, and regenerate what you were born with? I'm worthy of. The answer is yes. Start right now. Keep saying, I was born worthy of love. I kind of forgot it. But I'm remembering it, remembering what I need to remember, forgetting what I need to forget, remembering I'm worthy of love. Because how could you not be? Everyone is worthy of love. And the sooner you know it, say it, state it, if I'm embody it, the sooner love will find you, you will find it. And people what listening to this call say, wow, I'm gonna do it too. So let me know how soon love finds you. And if you're watching the listening to this call, watching this podcast, let me know. Because I've had so many people I got engaged, I got married, I've now got two kids, and it all happened because I listened to you and I went through that process of letting love in.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:01

Yes. I will let you know when I find that and when it finds me, it is on its way. Of course it is. Um, yeah, and I hope everybody listening can also grow into love. Yeah, dive into the the beauty of of what that would be like and feel like it's available to them.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:23

It's never too late to parent yourself, it's never too late to find love, ever. Yes. I agree. I'm excited for you, darling. I can't wait to hear all the news. Thank you. And I'll send you a copy of this book when it comes out. Have I sent you a copy? It's beautiful. Thank you. Have I sent you a copy of this one? Do you have this book?

SPEAKER_00 1:36:44

I only have it in my email, so I would love an actual physical copy. And I'll send you one of these when I'm going to remember that saying.

SPEAKER_01 1:36:52

I meant to climb mountains, not carry them. Yes. There's another saying I love, and it says it doesn't matter how long it takes to climb a mountain. When you get to the top, the view is the same for everybody. And I love that it doesn't matter how old you are and you find love, because when you find it, you'll feel like a giddy teenager for the rest of your life. That's beautiful. Yes. My dad found his l last love when he was 75. He says, I feel like I'm 15. He said, It's just the same, whether you're 15 or 75. And he was on the said to me, What I love is the two cups on the draining board, the two toothbrushes in the glass. He was so happy when he found love again. It found him. Yes. So love is all around. It's just there. It's not not available. And love isn't selfish, it doesn't have an age limit. It doesn't care about your weight, your shape, your size, your number of followers. It just cares about giving and receiving love. And it's not hard to find love. It's much harder to stay single when someone's got your back and brings you tea or coffee. Something's attention. Yeah, and when you're sick, they go to the pharmacy and get you some medication. When you're single, you've got to do it all yourself. It's a wonderful thing. There's a great song that says love is a song that was always playing, but I never heard it until I met you. My grand used to say, Life without love is like food without salt. She also used to say every pan has a lid. So we all got to find our lid. That's true. Well, thank you, darling.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:20

You've been an amazing guest.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:22

It's been an honor to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:23

Sam, and I I hope to actually be able to meet you one day in person. I think that would be great.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:30

Which part of Canada are you? I live close to Toronto. Okay, well, I'm in Toronto from time to time. I'll look you up. I'm sure we'll meet you. I'm excited about your book. Thank you. I'm excited about your life, and I'm most excited about the love that's coming your way right now. And all the other people on this call, I'm excited for you too. Thank you so much.