Let's Talk Kids

The Power and Potential of Special Education | Let’s Talk Kids

• ACNJ • Season 1 • Episode 3

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John Mulholland, an attorney and the Executive Director of the New Jersey Association of Special Education Partner Schools (NJASEPS), sheds light on the incredible advances made for improving the livelihood of kids with learning disabilities, as well as on the many challenges the organization faces.


Learn more about NJASEPS below!

https://njaseps.org/ - New Jersey Association of Special Education Partner Schools



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SPEAKER_02

Welcome to Let's Talk Kids. I'm Mary Coogan, president and CEO of Advocates for Children of New Jersey, and the host of Let's Talk Kids, a video podcast of conversations with policymakers, experts, and community partners on issues that impact children and youth. Joining me today is John Mahalan, an attorney and the executive director of the New Jersey Association of Special Education Partner Schools, or NJ ACEPS. Is that what we said? That's right. Okay. Prior to this position, John, my understanding is you worked for several members of the New Jersey legislature in South Jersey, and I think did a short period of time in the Murphy administration, right? Working in constituent services. And in the interest of full disclosure for our listening audience today, you are a member of the ACNJ Board of Trustees.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that is all correct.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you so much for joining me. So just to get started on some basics, what is the association? Its mission, and what do you do?

SPEAKER_01

Well, thank you very much for having me today. And I really welcome the opportunity to talk a little bit about NJ ASEP's mission and what we do. So NJ ASEPs at its, at its core, is an organization that advocates for students with disabilities and their families. So in 1974, 13 schools for students with uh with disabilities got together to found this association. And so what do we do now today, over over 50 years later? We provide curated content for those professionals that make sure that they understand best practices, get their professional development in, and do research that helps educate the broader community about what we do. We advocate on behalf of those students, their parents, and as a result of that, also on the interest of the schools, because we truly believe that these schools need to exist. So ultimately making sure these schools exist for the portion of the students with disabilities that need them is part of that mission.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell How many schools are there today? You said it started with 13 schools.

SPEAKER_01

Our membership is comprised of 131 schools right now. 130 of those are what would be class 5 of the state of New Jersey as approved private schools for students with disabilities. And that ends up being 85 organizations. So some operate more than one school.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell That's a lot of schools. So I know in our kids count data, there's approximately 242,000 students who are classified as eligible for special education. And that's out of, I guess, one about 1.3 million students in the preschool through K through 12. How many students are attending these partner schools?

SPEAKER_01

About 10,000 students. So we're talking about the students that have the most significant disabilities of that group. Because again, you know, our expect our obligation under federal law is to try to provide every student with a free and appropriate public education in the least restrictive environment. And that least restrictive environment, of course, is determined based on that student's needs. So the overwhelming majority of students who are classified and have an IEP can be educated in the traditional public school setting. But when there are situations where supports that can't be provided in the public school or don't work, we're there as well.

SPEAKER_02

Could you give me a some examples of that? Are these children who have health issues, behavioral problems?

SPEAKER_01

What we actually it runs the gamut. So some, and this gets into the point that these schools sort of specialize in particular things. So we do have some students who are significantly medically fragile. One of our members actually also operates a hospital and an and a school. We talk about students with significant behavioral issues, whether that's part of a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder or not. So behaviors, medically fragile, uh co-occurring disability. So we think about multiply disabled. So we might have a school, for instance, that takes students who are blind and visually impaired, but have something else as well. So that they might have a significant behavioral issue, trauma, intellectual disability, schools for students with uh Down syndrome as well, but really the whole gamut of behaviors, uh traumas, and that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_02

Do schools specialize?

SPEAKER_01

So each of our each of our members has a state-approved classification for the disability, which sort of is one way that they're narrowed. And then they all have different philosophies and take a certain portion of that student population.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell How do they work with your traditional public school?

SPEAKER_01

I often uh when in my own advocacy, I talk about how our member schools educate 10,000 public school students with disabilities. So the student always remains the responsibility of the sending district, or more precisely, the local education authority. And so there's a lot of collaboration. Uh when IEP meetings happen, you know, those are still coordinated through the public school district, uh obviously with the input of our experts, uh the teachers and the therapists on the ground at the placement.

SPEAKER_02

What's an IEP?

SPEAKER_01

Individualized education program or sometimes plan. And so under federal law, every student is guaranteed a free and appropriate public education. And so when a student has disabilities, a child study team is convened to discuss those needs. And the parent is a part of the child study team. And at that point, a an individual plan is created for that student specific to their needs.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell And you mentioned before that some of this is federal law, which I think is the Individual with Disabilities Education Act. IDA. I'm familiar with IDA. I always mess up what that actually stands for. And then there's also state law, right?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell That's correct. And New Jersey actually had gotten a state law in place prior to the enactment of federal IDEA. So we have some of the strongest protections at both the state level that complement those federal protections as well.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell Just to walk through the process. So I have a child who might be 10 years old, it appears is having some problems in school, learning issues, right? And they determine it's a processing problem. Based on what you're saying, it's probably likely that the child study team can figure out a plan that my child can stay in the current school.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, that's absolutely right.

SPEAKER_02

But let's say my child also has some type of a visual problem or a hearing impairment, or as you're saying, may it may be a combination of things. Does that is that within the discretion of the local public school to say, well, we can't help Mary's child here, so we're gonna send them to one of these private partner schools, or is it my decision as the parent is gonna do that?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell It's a little bit more nuanced than that, right? So of course there's it's gotta be it's meant to be a collaborative decision-making process. So and when you look at it from the those those opinions can differ. Reasonable people can disagree on what's best for their for the child, and they can go in either direction. So sometimes it might be the public school district that believes that the child should be referred out, and the parent actually believes that they could remain in the s in the in the public school district. So that's why federal law provides all sorts of administrative remedies like state put and sort of these sorts of things. If there is a disagreement, more often than not, it's truly collaborative, and it can come from either direction. Uh parents will sometimes ask for their children to be evaluated, but uh public schools also have an obligation under child find to identify children who may have issues. So at that point, they come up with that recommendation, and that's where uh additional supports in the public school district could be considered. Sometimes the option might be to send to a different public school district. So if the public school district nearby has, say, a very strong autism program, the decision might be made that the child could go to that public school district. Uh we we talk about uh county special service districts and join churches are an option, and then that's then then we're also on the table as an option as well, which would be sort of our our privately run placements. And then that the continuum sort of extends from there. If our placements aren't appropriate for the child, there are some uh what they call Naples Act placements, which are uh, for lack of better phrase, uh true true unapproved private schools that just completely operate as a private school, and then sometimes out-of-state placements as well. So it federal law requires that there needs to be a continuum of options, and so it can range from anything from uh uh small accommodations in the classroom all the way up to an out-of-district placement or out-of-state placement?

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell So now I have a whole lot of questions based on that. So if all right, so taking back to my child, right, who has a processing problem and maybe has a a site issue, does some of the decision ultimately made depend on how many students may have a similar issue that my child has? I mean, you spoke about county specialized schools. Is the decision making partially based on the resources available? Um because I'm thinking your partner schools, the teachers have specialties, right? Yes. Okay. So how is that why you have to have a continuum and and then everybody tries to work out the best plan?

SPEAKER_01

Or yeah, I think that's a a good way to think about it. Again, school districts make determinations on where they want to invest resources. And so if you have a lot of students that in your district with particular needs, you might be able to build the right supports for them. Even in that case, there's going to always be students who have some situation that might be so severe or so significant that they're still an out district placement. So maybe a s public school district might have a really good autism program. But if the if the presentation and the of the autism and the support needs are so high, there might still be a referral in that case. But also, to your point, perhaps you most of the student needs trend in one direction, or if you have a student with something completely different or some things that just can't be accommodated, say like a severe, severe medical fragile situation. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02

Where they actually can't be around other students, right? Because they might their immune system is impacted.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Do other states have a similar association to NJ ACEPs?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So we do have uh some sister associations. Massachusetts has one, Virginia, Maryland, Illinois, California. So there's a few out there. They generally are in the states where the most of these sorts of schools happen to exist. But there are schools like this generally all across the country. And that's why we also have a national association that represents our interests, which is the National Association of Private Special Education Centers as well.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell And does your association help get you mentioned teacher training and things or the certifications. Does it help the schools get accredited by New Jersey? Is there an special accreditation for these schools?

SPEAKER_01

So there's an approval status at the state level, and we certainly do provide some support in schools that are interested in becoming approved, or to you know, add an additional uh additional approved school that if they want to operate another one. What's nice too is our National Association does provide an accreditation for those schools that want to go that step further, which is known as NCASES, but there's other accreditations out there. And our schools often try to seek the ones that are most relevant to their the student populations they're serving.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell How does a parent find your schools? Do they go to your website and there's a list of every school and what they provide, or is there some other mechanism, or do they wait for the public school to say, you know, in my case, Mary, this is where your child should go?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell I think from the public school side, there's often a preference for it to look like that, that really it's about figuring out because I think the public school rightfully wants to see if they can support the student in their district. And so but to answer your question, both the parents and school districts do go to our website to look up the list of schools. The state maintains a list as well. A lot of that is also based off of uh relationships and and reputation as well. So uh a school district may have had very good experiences sending students to particular schools, and then though those will be first in mind. Uh one of the one of the challenges is there's no state reimbursement for transportation. So of course uh the distance you know matters. Again, sometimes there's no choice depending on where the student's located in the state, but the goal is also to try not to have students be on buses for very long periods of time either.

SPEAKER_02

And what's your website?

SPEAKER_01

So our website is www.njasep.org.

SPEAKER_02

The qualifications of teachers. What are the types of specialties that these private partner schools have?

SPEAKER_01

You know, almost all instances, the teachers teaching these schools will have a traditional teaching license, which would be either you know, elementary ed, uh secondary ed or you know, in a subject matter. And then they'll also have a teacher of students with disabilities endorsement on top of that. And then for student for schools that are teaching students who are blind and or visually impaired, there's additional an additional certification on top of that. So it's uh so you have to have an underlying teaching license, and then you're sort of adding these additional credentials on top of it.

SPEAKER_02

And I guess that makes sense to our earlier comments that for one or two students, it doesn't necessarily make sense for the public school to have a person with a specialty if there is a partner school within reasonable distance who can provide that assistance, right?

SPEAKER_00

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02

Do some of the teachers or do any teachers from the partner schools ever actually work within the traditional public school?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So that's a really great question, just thinking about the talent pipeline in general. Sometimes we will get uh teachers who start their career in one of our schools and then will get hired by a public school district or or a special services district to help set up a program or help continue a program. We also, as you can imagine, get uh teachers after retirement that want to come and do this as well. So they might, you know, if they're in the tier one of the pensions, state pension, they'll collect their pension and come work for us. So that's but there's so there's a little bit of that. And then in general, people just choose their careers however they want. There's definitely a value to being able to teach in either of those settings for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell Do teachers work in these schools because they have a different commitment to students, or do you think it's just an interest in a certain behavioral problem that draws them to schools?

SPEAKER_01

It's definitely often a commitment to the to being able to teach students with disabilities, particular populations for sure. Uh, we're actually going to be rolling out in the very near future a campaign entitled This is Special Education, where we're going to be having teachers and other professionals tell their story of why they got into this business. What's interesting in some cases is individuals might start, say, as a paraprofessional and then go become teacher certified. And we're we we're strongly in favor of legislation and other regulatory changes that encourages that sort of talent pipeline. Because too often, you know, you one of our schools might interview someone who has all of the credentials on paper and says all the right things in the interview, but they don't really understand the student population they're working with, not the same way as someone who has spent time working with them all already and wants to continue to do so.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell That's interesting. So what you're saying, the power professional, they could be a basically a teacher's aide. And I don't want to minimize that talent because it does require a lot of support for these students, right? So you're saying that commitment is there. And then who is paying for them to continue their education? Are they doing it to get certified?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Yes. And this that is what they would be doing. And again, often their employers, you know, giving them the time to be away to do whatever they have to. One of the challenges, and I'm not saying that we would change this, but in order to be certified in the state, you do have to get some student teaching in and that sort of thing. So that can change, that makes it difficult to maintain your full-time job and do that.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell So what are some of the other challenges that the schools are facing?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell I think I mean one of the challenges that we briefly start talking about is is is staffing. I think that there is a challenge in education as a whole. And as you get more and more specialized, there's more of a severe staffing shortage. We also have that challenge with the specialists, like the therapists, OTs, PTs, speech, so occupational therapists, physical therapists, you know, speech professionals. And a part of that is it's ultimately more remunerative to take a position in the public. For one of the reasons why we have a challenge is it's more remunerative to take a position in the public school district, uh, in part because our maximum salaries are set what I would say artificially low, but also because the public school comes with a state pension benefit and benefits package that we can't always compete with.

SPEAKER_02

So teachers going to the these private partner schools are not part of the state pension system.

SPEAKER_01

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02

Many times they're paid less.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And it's and that's partly because our schools are closely regulated on the fiscal side, because they are privately run entities. They calculate maximum salaries based off 21 counties in New Jersey and based off of over 20 positions. And so that's based off a very complicated formula to get who the highest paid person in that position was in the prior school year. And so that's what tears the entire system. This is less of a challenge for entry-level professionals, but in terms of retention, it can be an issue as you start getting closer to those maximums. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02

If these are private entities, why is the state determining caps on salaries?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell So ultimately the tuition of these schools are paid by the sending school district. So because it is their public school district students being educated with public dollars, the state wants to make sure that those dollars are being spent appropriately. And so that's where the system, in order to become approved, came in. So in order to be approved, you have to implement these fiscal code of regulations that includes these maximum salary caps.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell Well, that's interesting. So basically what you're saying is that there's regulations that protect the taxpayer, so to speak, right? And a private school can't just go out and recruit some teacher and say, I'll pay you $500,000 to come to my school because you have a specialty.

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell That's correct. And another good example of that is, you know, several years ago during the pandemic, public school districts were actually paying bonuses to hire staff. And we, by our regulations, we weren't allowed to do that. So there's certain things like that that you can't hire and like do a recruitment bonus or retention bonus or those sorts of things. We're prohibited from any form of bonuses.

SPEAKER_02

Aaron Powell Interesting. Do some of the schools, are they able to raise private dollars?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So there's the system, the regulatory system set up to be an actual cost plus system. So it's you your verified actual cost through an annual audit plus some additional money for working capital, very limited additional amount of money. And so anything else you want to do above and beyond that, they will do traditional fundraising and development work for. Yes.

SPEAKER_02

How about the use of assisted assistive devices or technology? Are these schools using the most current technology that they can to help students?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Yeah. And it runs runs the gamut. So when we think about uh physical disabilities, I mean if you walked into one of those schools, and of course the hallways are extra wide for a reason, every type of mobility device you could imagine is is there because students have all sorts of needs, and then you know whether it's walkers and and and things that help you stand and help you use your muscles and develop those types of skills. But even in some of our autism programs, we're starting to see some really innovative uh uses of uh virtual reality, for instance, to help prep students to be able to go into certain public situations. So you might actually see like a practice of like how to go to the pizza place and have a pizza or sit in the park. And then when they will later then do the uh opportunity to do that for real, but they'll be familiar with what's going on.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna take from that that the goal is not just about academics.

unknown

That's correct.

SPEAKER_02

What are some of the other goals of these programs? And maybe this is the goal of the IEP that we talked about earlier, right? So just for a person who's not necessarily familiar with special ed, what are some of the other goals?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Powell Life skills are a major piece of this. So ultimately, the the whole vision is that students will be able to live uh ultimately productive uh lives as independently as possible. So the students who could be attending one of our schools, and this is true of special ed in general across the state, could be anywhere from ages three to 21. So after you would get to the age where you would generally be graduating high school, they do a lot of work on transition planning. And that can have structured learning experiences where they, you know, students will have the opportunity to work in in work sites or go out to community-based instruction, uh, depending on the disability. That could be like going, learning how to go to a diner and learning how to order off the menu, make change, and and you know, engage in community. For for individuals that are more geared directly into the workforce, that could be working at a pizza shop, perhaps building pizza boxes, or working, doing horticulture, doing agriculture. Uh we have some schools that have done a lot of really interesting work around uh learning how to raise chickens and these kinds of things. And what's really what's really interesting about it is I remember when I first got the chance to do the tour tour of some of these schools, and you see some schools. do stuff on s on the campus first before you would go out into the community. And so a lot of the schools will point out their horticulture programs. And of course that could become a direct job. And I said, oh, that's that's interesting. They told me about how they would be, you know, get employed in that way. But the answer I also got is this could also be a hobby. So maybe they're going to do something else with their life. And that's what we also have to remember is that all all people deserve the chance of a fulfilling life. And what does that mean? To be able to live as independently as possible, to be able to have employment if possible, but also to have things that you enjoy and that you're good at. And so the schools really do look at like trying to set up their students for life. And that that's a big thing for these parents as well as you can imagine.

SPEAKER_02

So how are the parents involved in some of this? Because I'm thinking for your non-special ed student or even a special ed student in your typical public school setting, the parent is teaching the child some of this.

SPEAKER_01

It depends obviously on the parent, but assuming the parent is engaged and involved, which is the overwhelming majority of situations, there's very good communication between our school and the parent about what's going on in the classroom and what things they should be working on at home. Our schools set up things that are comparable and sometimes call this to parent teachers associations as well. So they realize that this isn't going to work unless it's reinforced around the clock. And so they they bring they come up with activities where parents can come to school, see what's going on, and of course the other mechanisms through you know the IEP process and also its equivalent function at the school as well.

SPEAKER_02

I'm thinking that in many of these cases, I guess because of the extent of the disability, the parents don't know how to teach their child. Is that why we're having the school do it? Or the parent needs assistance in terms of the devices that the child uses or you know like what is it about the schools that say we need the school's help and the parent can't do it at home on their own?

SPEAKER_01

I think I think it's all the parents always going to be involved. There's no doubt about that. And obviously the parent spends more time with the child than the child spends in school, right? I think that the important thing is to make sure that the time in school is is is beneficial and relevant. And so in some cases there are students absent if our schools didn't exist, some students would be you know on at-home instruction, right? Because of the the severity of their behaviors at a public school district would just say that they're not appropriate for our placement. But also you you don't want students who you know just have a bunch of different educational disabilities to just be placed in one single resource room either. So like the goal is to make sure that there is learning going on in the school. And that's what our schools take pride in is that they are teaching. They're teaching both traditional academics but also mobility, physical life skills, you know potential career skills as well.

SPEAKER_02

And are there connections made to potential I'm going to say employers for want of a better word but activities for once they're out at 21?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So what's what's interesting is some some of our schools based off of pushes from parents have actually begun to build more of their own adult program and that programming that of course is funded differently by the state and requires a lot more fundraising to make work but they do build really good relationships with the community businesses. So a lot of times if a student is there for work-based instruction, they may be kept on to continue to do that work as well.

SPEAKER_02

And is this then done in conjunction then with your regular public school? Do these types of activities become part of the IEP?

SPEAKER_01

Yes that that is correct. And so and that's a very fair point too is a public school district will sometimes say that we, you know, we actually want to have a conversation about transition planning. So maybe they have a much better maybe they have their own transition program in-house. So it's not as if a student who ends up in one of our schools is going to is there for their entire educational journey. So often what we find in our data is if students are referred out of district earlier in their career and get intensive supports, they can return to their sending district with or without supports and continue their education there as well.

SPEAKER_02

Oh no so that's interesting. So for some kids it's not like my child would start at 10 and stay till they're 21.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

They may be there for two or three years and then go back.

SPEAKER_01

That's correct. And then sometimes they might be going to a different placement along the way as well but it's ultimately whatever is the individual needs of the child but they could very well end up back in their school district.

SPEAKER_02

Oh well that's interesting. And I guess it's because they show progress, right? That's right. And you can now send them back to the your typical classroom. Or maybe it's just a special ed classroom but in a public school?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell That's right. Or perhaps it's uh in the general ed classroom but with a with an aid, you know, a one-to-one aid or something to this effect.

SPEAKER_02

Who is monitoring the IEP and the progress of the school and I guess managing the parents' expectation and the public school's expectation? Is that you?

SPEAKER_01

No it goes back to that and this is this is set up by federal law it goes back to that annual meeting of the child study team at the end of the day that that's the entity that's sort of controlling this process.

SPEAKER_02

And so if again using my case as an example the school where the special ed partner school where my child is going comes to the IEP meeting at my town public school.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And they say, okay, so the IEP had a certain amount of goals is Mary's child meeting those goals? Do we need to change the IEP or what has to be adjusted.

SPEAKER_01

That's right. And also the the public schools will come in to you know the partner schools to to monitor see the student and have the conversation at that level as well. And that's where they're getting the the input they need to see progress to that IEP? So then there is a lot of interaction where there should be and correct when it when it when it works right that's how it does work.

SPEAKER_02

So thinking that and I think we called it like the least restrictive environment is what the end goal is that children could go back and forth. What happens if I say well I want my child to remain in the school and my local school district is saying you've gotten your child's gotten the the best benefit out of this school?

SPEAKER_01

And that's where there is an administrative law process that can go in. So ultimately federal law provides for state put so there can't be any changes to the child's educational placement when when that is filed and then ultimately it will be determined by an administrative law judge or beyond depending on how the dispute goes but ideally the goal is that everyone's on the same page but when there is a disagreement parents have rights.

SPEAKER_02

Good to know. Yes. You mentioned earlier that some of these students might have significant health needs.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Who's paying for that? So is that private insurance of the parent? Is Medicaid involved?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah so I guess to start with the Medicaid piece because this is a little bit broader as across across any form of public education in New Jersey if a student is getting a service that is Medicaid eligible they are able to participate in what's called the Special Education Medicaid initiative. And so essentially if it's a service that could be billed through Medicaid but it's being provided in a public school system and the student has you know has New Jersey family care, they will be able to file for that reimbursement and they'll get the money from Medicaid. We're also part of that process in that we're obligated to file to get those documents prepared for the sending public school district so they can get that reimbursement to help defray the cost of them sending the student to us.

SPEAKER_02

So to clarify for people who are watching NJ Family care or New Jersey Family Care is New Jersey's public health insurance system. And and I think there's many people who think of it as NJ family care without realizing that it is funded by federal and state Medicaid dollars. That's right. Right? And I happen to know because of other work I do that there's over 860,000 children currently in NJ family care. And so if whatever portion of them you're saying might have a medical need addressed at school, the school can get that reimbursement from NJ family care for that cost.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And again there is a little bit of cost sharing in there. So if you were talking to one of my colleagues in the public school business office, they're not getting the full reimbursement because some of that remains with the state but they're getting partial defrayment for those costs.

SPEAKER_02

There's been changes right to federal Medicaid and again just by way of I guess some background information the eligibility requirements primarily for low-income adults who might also be in NJ family care, those requirements are changing and there is a work requirement now and eligibility is going to be determined twice a year. So I also happen to know from prior work that sometimes if parents drop out of family care or are determined no longer eligible sometimes they might think it's the whole family who's no longer eligible and then the child's coverage lapse because New Jersey family care you have to proactively make sure you're eligible every year. Right? So is there a chance that some students might be impacted or the schools might be impacted as we roll out the changes to Federal Medicaid?

SPEAKER_01

Yes I'm I'm very worried about that the way that you describe that is when there's so many changes to this program and so much confusion around this that if parents find themselves no longer eligible, they might think that their child's no longer eligible. So aside from the fact that their child's not getting access to you know health insurance that they're you know legally entitled to it runs the risk of creating some systemic uh problems for the public school system because now they're not going to be eligible to get those reimbursements from SEMI or the Special Education Medicaid initiative. And in an environment where school budgets are very tight and they're making very difficult environments, any loss of funding is going to have has an outsized impact right now.

SPEAKER_02

Any idea about how many students might currently be getting services through this SEMI program, the Special Education Medicaid initiative?

SPEAKER_01

Probably about 20 to 25% of that entire special education population.

SPEAKER_02

The last report I saw it's almost 9000 students so that it is a significant number. Yeah. Right? And that to me it is probably going to be a greater impact on districts that are more urban or might have a higher percentage of students who are actually enrolled in NJ family care. And again people not even understanding that New Jersey Family Care is a Medicaid supported program. Right? So you raise a really good point about the fact that budgets are tight. And we are hearing school districts all over the state who are running into problems already. So what are do you know what districts are doing about this? Or is there they're just waiting to see how the federal changes are implemented?

SPEAKER_01

Aaron Ross Powell So there's so many things going on to the school districts right now. So some of it is wait and see but some of it is making very hard cost cutting decisions. And and as you can imagine education is primarily about the personnel, the teachers and the support staff. So they are looking at hard decisions of perhaps not filling vacancies, potentially laying off staff. And then as you can imagine that has a very significant impact on on classroom sizes and educational quality for those students and their families and that additional assistance that might help a student stay in the local public school right?

SPEAKER_02

Because that's they're both local public school and also your special education schools. What would you say to somebody who might be watching or listening today to say well if school districts are struggling and schools are primarily supported by property taxes, well maybe we should cut the funding to this special education partner schools because they're focused on, as you described earlier, life skills, not so much academics.

SPEAKER_01

I think because of the significance of the the disabilities that the students were talking about, the state as a whole has an obligation to help fill that gap. And that's part of the reason why when SFRA was set up, which is the School Funding Reform Act of 2007, I believe, they set up a line item for extraordinary special education aid. And when that's when that is properly funded money is sent to sending districts to help cover some of these what are called extraordinary special education costs. So on one level I think the state has to step up and help school districts do the right thing here. What I'd also say though is I think those dollars are well spent, whether they're coming from local property taxpayers or from the state because aside from the fact that students deserve fulfilling lives and their parents deserve support because nobody gets to choose if they're going to have a student with a significant educational disability, it's also that the cost over the lifetime the public costs over lifetime are much less. So we're now talking about you know this could be the difference of whether or not that student is able to actually get competitive employment or be able to live on their home and not have to live in say a group home or have to live in some other type of you know more institutionalized setting. Or maybe this be the difference between them having involvement in the criminal justice system or or taking up a hospital bed. And those all have tremendous public costs and private costs to them. So it's much better to spend these dollars and invest in our future and keep our long term costs down.

SPEAKER_02

The old adage pennywise dollar foolish right that you're describing. And I do recall attending it was a hearing in front of the State Board of Ed, in which you had a lot of parents coming and testifying and sharing their stories, which to me were extremely compelling of the difference they had seen in their children who had attended some of these schools where their children had just blossomed and had really been kind of stuck when they were in the public school because they didn't have the resources and they didn't have the specialized teachers who could really engage them and help them in their learning capacity.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah no I think that that's really true. We actually do a professional excellence awards program for the the staff in our schools. And it was traditionally we used to do a teacher of the year, a powerprofessional of the year and a related service provider of the year. We've since broken that program up and created nine awards in part and so now the teacher is by age band and so is the powerprofessional and then we broke the related service providers up into different types of related service providers. We did that in part because it's too hard to compare the difference between the teacher who maybe helped your child speak their first words, your your non-speaking child now saying the first word to the to the teacher who maybe helps them find their job. So all there's so many different things that happen over a child's lifespan in one of our schools that we felt that we weren't giving enough recognition to it. But also how do you compare those things? Because you think what you just alluded to think about the impact that has on the parent when those things happen.

SPEAKER_02

How do people learn more about that? I know I've been to the luncheon you have, which actually highlights the accomplishments of students, right? And they're artists and amazing talent that I've seen at some of those luncheons. But what are some of the other ways that somebody might start to really appreciate what goes on at these schools?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I think I think we own some of the responsibility of making sure that those materials exist. And so that's what we're taking on a concerted effort to do. We're doing a lot of uh we're going to have those stories from teachers and support staff and parents and we're going to be distributing them on our website and our social media channels. Additionally as you allude to our event uh commemorating or celebrating special education week is we're going to be expanding it significantly and trying to invite even more people and make sure that there's some you know better publicity around it. Because that's the only way this people really get it is when they hear these stories. And as I said at the beginning of this interview, they are all so different. I mean there's a reason why federal law created this powerful remedy of an individualized education program because we are talking about individual needs, significant individual needs of these 10,000 students Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

It it is significant but I think it's so critical for people to really appreciate it. I know to me that luncheon is like a true hallmark moment, right? You really do it gets you right in the hall. Right.

SPEAKER_01

And I think there's my favorite event of the year by far.

SPEAKER_02

But the other thing is I think some schools probably have events too right in in their community. Yeah. All right. So if people wanted to do they ever take volunteers in the schools?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So I think yeah I mean there's a those are all great questions. I mean so the if you were to look at the list of the schools and say you found the ones in your county, you could look up their their websites, their social media pages, and there'd be all the these different opportunities. What's great is you know back to the point about least restrictive environment this idea that students should have exposure to peers in the general ed classroom, some of our schools make sure that they cooperate with you know the school district in the area they're located with, that they collaborate to do sports together or do uh volunteer projects together. So there are lots of innovative ways, whether it's community volunteers, whether it's working with the public school or other nonprofits that we can really make a difference.

SPEAKER_02

I'm just thinking some people who might be retired, they shouldn't be put off by the fact that many of the teachers are experts. There are people who are aides and who might help with an activity. Right. And they would be welcome.

SPEAKER_01

Trevor Burrus Absolutely and then the other thing is if so obviously there schools do take volunteers again obviously they have to pass all the proper background checks and clearances because we're we truly make sure you know there's laws but also we want to make sure that we protect our students as much as possible. But for people who are looking for a a second career or or or additional income, we do also keep a jobs posting page on our website as well. And then you and then those jobs run the gamut from paraprofessionals who might not need a credential to you know people who'd be business office staff. So they're not just we're not just talking about certified teachers or or therapists.

SPEAKER_02

Or maybe a gardener right or somebody who knows how to raise chickens. Yeah exactly no I just I mean because people take up hobbies. Yes. Right? And those are it sounded from what you were saying earlier that part of this is to help students find a hobby, something that they can do whatever their limitation is right. And to me, having people who might be passionate about something come in and show them how to do it would probably be a great match.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah no absolutely any other things that you think people should know to really appreciate what some of these schools are doing I think it's I think it's important to recognize that these schools are of course teaching all the things that we talked about, but they also are evolving to meet the needs of their students. So if you talk to any of these schools about what maybe their students looked like 10 or 15 years ago, they would say that that student population was different. What we are seeing is a lot of, you know, just not that dissimilar to the regular student population that we're seeing increased depression, anxiety, other co-occurring issues. So our schools are evolving to meet the needs of the students that they're getting today and they'll continue to evolve to meet the needs of the students that they'll be getting tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02

So talk a little bit more about that. What what's causing that anxiety depression what's happening?

SPEAKER_01

I mean I think it's a a very fair and open question. There's obviously lots of really a lot of really interesting thoughts about what could be causing that. I think you know where there's still some impact from the pandemic disruption obviously the impact of social media and students' lives the lack of other types of socialization those are all certainly playing a role but I think that that's something that we're trying to take very seriously as a state is looking at sort of those mental health issues that layer on top of these educational disabilities but also achievement in general there's concerns about literacy scores and math scores not being where they were only you know not that long ago.

SPEAKER_02

They're not where they should be have the schools seen an increase in in need for the services they provide over the past five years?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. How significant is that the overwhelming majority of our schools would have additional referrals that they can't currently take a Really? Yes. So that's that is a significant issue and and one of the things that I'm trying to work on in my role at NJ Aceps is trying to even get a good handle on how many students are currently on at home instruction. Because the worry is that if the public school district does not have the supports for the student and they're not appropriate to be educated in the public school, but we don't have enough placements, what's happening to those students?

SPEAKER_02

So what is at-home instruction?

SPEAKER_01

So one option that can be provided if, you know, if again, based off availability of other placements or based off the unique needs of the student, is that they're essentially at home, and then you know, a designated at-home instructor would come by, spend some time with the student, and give them assignments. One of the scary things about the current situation of at-home instruction is that there's not enough at-home instructors. So that you might get that as part of your IEP, but you're not getting it the way it was intended. And as you can imagine, if you're a child who struggles with behaviors or struggles with, you know, uh just even having a good structure in your life, that time spent at home can really set you back in your your life journey.

SPEAKER_02

Wow. So just so I'm clear, you could have a student who has some type of behavioral issue and maybe a learning problem, which the school has determined they can't meet for whatever reason. So they want to refer the student to one of your schools, which doesn't have an opening. And so this student could be home alone for a significant portion of their week.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

With assignments and somebody stopping by to check on them.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And it's not really a good place at all.

SPEAKER_01

And so something we're calling on the state to do is to let's collect the data on how many students are in that situation in a school year. And then let's assess the problem. One thing we've often said as an organ, I've had the opportunity to meet with some county special service directors and they and get to hear candidly about their concerns about trying to find these placements or the need to keep a placement because if they lose it, they're worried they're gonna not have it for that student. And I had to remind them gently that this is something that this organization has been warning about for for a decade or more, that ultimately that if you if you approach regulations in the way that the state has, you're going to cause some of these schools to close. And when they close, they don't get replaced. And so as a result of that, there's less placements than we might once have had. And also the other challenges that we talked about, some of these schools might be approved to have more students, but they can't find the staff. And they can't find the teacher or the or the additional paraprofessionals like a teacher's aide or a one-to-one aide. And so therefore, they're trying their best to be responsible. They're not going to take on more students than they can properly educate and therapeutically support. So those are the two challenges. One, there are so ultimately there's less placements than there should be, in part because we probably don't have as many of these schools as we should have, or at least once did. And the schools can't responsibly expand, even if they had the space to.

SPEAKER_02

How many schools have closed in recent years?

SPEAKER_01

So within within 15 years, there would have probably been about 175 of these schools that were membership in our membership, and now we're at 131. And most of those are due to closures.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting. And what about the county special ed schools? Does every county have a special ed school, like county-based school?

SPEAKER_01

There's different ways they can be set up. And I think the overwhelming majority have some version of this. And that can be set up as a sometimes you'll hear them as county special service districts, county special service schools, uh, educational service commissions, uh, or jointures. So if a if two counties want to do something together, they can create a jointure. So, and again, like like any of the other placements on the special education, you know, continuum, students can be students can be referred out of region as well. It's not as if you're somehow you have to go to the one that's set up in your geographic area. And again, that's ultimately do they have the right, you know, supports needed for the student that that's being referred to them.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting. This has been a very interesting conversation. So, um, okay, so there's clearly a lot of work that needs to be done. And I guess we're just gonna have to wait and see how the changes to Medicaid impact both your regular district public school and also the special education schools. But I know that's something that ACJ is watching because to me, as I said earlier, it's a significant number of young children who are in NJ family care, but also in the what we called the semi-program earlier.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you very much for your time, John.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, thank you for having me, and thank you for your advocacy on these important issues. It does make a difference in the lives of children and their families.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm sure we could do more and we will. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02

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