07 - To Each According To Need

In this episode of Rooted & Rising, Andrew McDonald is joined by Sandi Derrig and Nicole Warn to share the story of the Student Support and Extension work taking shape across K-4.

Together, they reflect on what it truly means to meet students where they are: recognizing that learners come with different strengths, challenges, and needs, and that equity in education often requires intentional, personalized support. Sandi and Nicole discuss the first year of this work, including how intervention and extension are thoughtfully designed to help students grow academically, develop confidence, and take ownership of their learning.

The conversation highlights collaboration with teachers, responsiveness to student needs, and the importance of viewing support not as a label, but as an opportunity. Grounded in the Catholic belief in the dignity of every learner, this episode reminds us that when schools commit to giving each student what they need, all students are better able to flourish.

It’s a hopeful look at growth, reflection, and the ongoing commitment to serve every child well.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Welcome to Rooted in Rising, a short podcast where we highlight the people, programs, and moments that make Billings Catholic schools special. Each episode, we'll spend just a few minutes sharing one story from across our system. Something worth noticing, worth celebrating, and worth building on. I'm Andrew McDonald, and I'm glad you're here. We're gonna have a great conversation.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

I'm gonna tear that light.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Perfect. All right. Thank you both for being here today. Really excited to be joined by two individuals from St. Francis that are responsible for some really incredible work that's happening this year. So, Sandy, I'm gonna have you introduce yourself to our audience.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Hi, I'm Sandy Derrick. I do the enrichment portion of the student support team.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

And I'm Nicole Warren, and I work with the student support. I'm a student support staff here at work with kindergarten through fourth grade.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

So what does that mean? What does student support mean for kindergarten through fourth grade?

SPEAKER_02 1:09

Well, I guess what I love about this program for our teachers and our students is that we're kind of meeting them where they need in our math and our reading curriculum. So the teachers are so dedicated to making sure kids are getting the grade level information, but some students need a little more support, just maybe hearing something again, looking at it another way. Nicole's been so amazing with that, and she gives those kids such great confidence and strategies. And some kids are like, yeah, we're doing well. We need that little bit more. They've demonstrated that they need maybe an advanced way to think about it. Not necessarily moving forward in grade level, but how does this really apply? You know, what do we do in real life with this? Or just some advanced problem solving. So that's kind of what I think I don't know, Sandy.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yes. I think that's the great the part that's been so wonderful is that we work together. And I think that's what has made this program, student support program so successful is the constant collaboration and communication with each other and the teachers so that we can truly meet the kids where they are at that particular time.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

And so you kind of talked about that, like meeting students where they're at and and whether that means additional support or or maybe that opportunity to take things to the next level, push a little bit further. So can you give me some examples of of what that looks like in practice?

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah, so our main focus, I guess, this year has been with math, kind of our protected time that we've been doing with math. And this the teachers have been really great allowing the students to take a you know pre-test before what they're going to teach. And so then that determines where the students are at that particular module. And so then we can decide what students are going to go where according to what support that they need. And so we do that throughout the year. You know, so it's it can be different. Our groups can shift depending on those pre and post-test. So we truly are getting the data and the information at that particular moment and then making decisions based on that.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yeah. So it kind of is like a diagnosis of what a kid already knows, right? Where they're strong or or maybe where they've got they need some extra support, right? And then from there, you kind of are able to target instruction as like a prescription, right? It's almost like if you think about it kind of like a doctor, right? Yep. You're diagnosing the issue and then you're you're crafting a solution to help get better. Exactly. Right. And what about on the other end of that, Sandy?

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Well, one thing I think is pretty exciting about the flexible thinking and the flexible grouping that we have, teachers have really been looking for those kids that maybe we think, okay, initially, like a doctor would diagnose, you know, this particular group would be best. And maybe students are in the classroom and they only needed a few times of instruction, and it's like, aha, they've got it. And you know, they've demonstrated that. Then we say, you know what, let's move them. Or somebody's we thought might be doing pretty well, but as they get into things, they're struggling. Then we move them so that we're making sure to do that precision teaching for those kids. And I guess what I've seen from the kids is it it meets them where they are. They're not missing any foundational skills, but they're getting what they need to move forward, whatever that might look like. So for the kids on the enrichment kind of grouping, we just do a lot of different things with what the concepts are in the module. For example, in the classroom, students were working on decimals. And so we had integrated that so that we have that common floor to work from, right? Because kids are coming into the group, kids are going to rotating to the classroom. And so we want to make sure we have that low floor so everybody has the same basic skills in addition to what they're getting in the classroom. And then we took off from that and we've just wrapped up a mini stock market, which was very challenging in these times because the stock market was all over. And the kids were very aware of that and talking about world events and doing, you know, mental math, like, hey, isn't this just like and connecting those dots? And I think that's for those kids, that's what they need. They they're good at the foundational skills, they understand that. But then how do you tie it in and make those connections and give them those opportunities for those aha moments that you know they're all thinking in a similar fashion and a similar level.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Yeah. So what what results have you seen already? Because this is the first year that we've really organized it in this way, right? Like this is kind of a re-reenvisioning of how we do student support here. So what have you guys seen over the course of this year? What are some of the results?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Well we've seen increases in map scores, the testing scores, and not just the overall score, but we've seen an increase in the growth out of the code.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Like what's the difference there?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

So they have their overall score, but then they they also give us a growth score because they're the kids are expected to grow a certain amount at the different times that they take it over the year, and then also per grade level. So those growth scores are also increasing.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Which sounds almost like a better measure than just pure achievement, right? Like is this student getting what they need in order to grow at the expected rate or better than the expected rate?

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yes. Okay. We've definitely seen an increase in that. And then I've also just noticed, you know, an a boost in confidence from some kids. You know, they they walk a little taller, a little straighter. And I've noticed in my particular classroom, I feel like the kids are a little more willing to try things, you know, that maybe w in a larger group setting, they're not as comfortable. So I I've seen kids, you know, volunteer more or be a little bit more excited or willing to take a challenge. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Which you really can't understate like how important confidence and that willingness to maybe take a risk or try something that that is so crucial for students, especially at this point in their educational career, right? It sets them up for future success. Trevor Burrus, Jr.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yes. Absolutely. And I would also, you know, comment that I think sometimes my background happens to be a lot with higher-end learners. I think a lot of times we sort of dismiss that they're okay, they know what they need to know. And the truth is when we talk about growth, they're high achieving, but they're not growing. And and when we stagnate those learners, we also stagnate their potential, right? So as Nicole's saying, you know, she sees kids having more confidence, more risk-taking, more willing to share. At the high end, a lot of those kids are almost willing not to do that in that setting.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Just in case they're wrong. Yeah. They're scared of being wrong.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

And so it's like developing those skills and and it's almost a social emotional skill. It's not a standard in math, but giving them that confidence, giving them those, you know, those formats on how to problem solve. What do you do if you're stuck? You know, what are some strategies? How do you verbalize those connections? You know, a lot of kids I work with, they say, I just get it. And it's like they're not lying, they do. But to move forward and to have that collegial kind of conversation, they need to verbalize it. And so teaching those skills and how to be accurate in their thinking and their communication and perseverance. You know, if you don't get it right away, I mean, I'm always one that I don't get it right away, so I have to work really hard at it. Yep, yep. And a lot of these kids, they, you know, they have always gotten it. So again, that perseverance and that confidence. And and I think what I've heard from teachers that they've liked is the groups they're working with now get their full attention and they're seeing that growth, whether it's in the testing, in their, you know, conversations, their question asking, their aha moments. And so I feel like it has just been such a great, you know, benefit, not just on paper, but with what we see, like Nicole said, what we see in the kids and their comfort in their learning and their comfort that they can go further and they can get it and and they're successful. And so that's, I think, you know, teachers are seeing that as well. And so I think that's probably the biggest benefit.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So in in practice, right, during math time, we've got m up to three different groups potentially at at that point in time. And and so Sandy, you've got a group, Nicole, you've got a group, and then the teacher has a group. And so all of you are able to deliver instruction at the level needed for those kids that are in in front of them, right? That's that's kind of how it works. Okay, so interesting counter argument to this, right? Which is is definitely not on the questions that I sent you, so I'm catching you off guard with this question. Isn't that just tracking students?

SPEAKER_02 10:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Okay, why not?

SPEAKER_02 10:47

And I'm gonna say a hard no on that. Our grouping is so flexible. Back to the point where I said, you know, teachers are noticing, you know, kids being successful, they need to be in a different group during their instruction. Kids are struggling. We need to fill that hole, whatever it takes. I feel like tracking is in my experience, it has mostly been pretty much a one-and-done test score, and that's where you're headed. And this is way more flexible than that. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'll be really honest, we have kids that maybe in a certain amount of computation, you know, we might have some kids that are repeating, and then you hit geometry, and it's a whole new group. And it should be. It should be. And we are in constant communication, it's flexible grouping, and you know, if you look at our numbers, you know, we have serviced numerous kids in all of our grouping that if you were just tracking, you would pretty much have one class and it would be that, you know, 25 kids all the way through, whether that, you know, fit for them or not. And so I I say a hard no. It is not tracking whatsoever. That is not our philosophy here.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

I love that. Thank you so much. That's exactly why I'm not sure. Sorry, kind of committed to that one. Oh, you should have seen her. She got so animated with that one. It was awesome. Okay, I've got another question, and this one is also not on our list of questions. Talk to me about jelly beans. What was the deal with jelly beans?

SPEAKER_02 12:24

I guess I'll take that one again. So hopefully the the learning going home isn't just on the candy items, but we were just dirty socks and boogers.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

I need to clarify right now. So it was the module regarding fractions. And so introducing the concepts and and again that low floor, and then we're going to the high ceiling. The idea that they have the foundational what are fractions, you know, the the grade level concepts, how do we add, you know, we're multiplying by whole numbers, we're doing all of that, and then taking that up to a high ceiling and expanding to rational numbers. So we talked about rates, we talked about ratios, and we introduced simple probability. And if any of you, especially adults, have had the sad, sad misfortune of trying birdie bots, every flavored bean, or bean boozled, I'm here to warn you, don't be doing it. So we talked about theoretical probability that you know, on most of those, they have one color and it could be one of two flavors. So the theory, the idea, the guess, I guess if you would say, was that there's going to be half good ones and half bad ones. And so we tested that and collected the data, and they were really good troopers. And we found out, and I've done this for many, many years, that approximately 60% are no good. Like, like seriously, he'd that morning, and approximately 40% are good. And we talked about why would you do that? Was that a misprint? Was that an accident? And how the marketing was behind that. And the kids come up with this idea. I am not telling them these things. They know they're bringing their experience in, and you know, that's where that high ceiling is. How far can you go with that? And where's their discussion kind of driving that piece? So hope that clears that up.

SPEAKER_00 14:29

Love it. That's awesome. What a neat lesson, too. And and then just to kind of wrap us up, what are you both most hopeful about moving forward? So we're we're at you know, April of this year. This is our first year trying it. What are our dreams with this? Where do we want to take this?

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Well, I I'm I'm excited to have this year under a belt, and I'm just looking forward to taking what we've done and to keep building on it. It has been, like Sandy said, we had to be flexible at the beginning, figuring it out, working with every single grade level. A lot of it was trial and error, figuring out what works for each grade level because each grade level is different. And so we have kind of worked through that. And so I think we're at a good place now, and I'm really looking forward to building on that. I have, you know, team teach with the other teachers, and we've been making some notes as we do certain lessons. And so I'm looking forward to kind of modifying some of the things that we're doing next year that will fit better for those particular groups. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

So I think we're we're kind of, again, at an administrative level, kind of trying to now maybe be a little more formally blocking some of that reading time to kind of get that.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Because this year's emphasis was math.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

It was. And we've integrated reading, but it's been it's been a little more challenging scheduling-wise.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, just not as structured as math. Correct.

SPEAKER_02 15:52

And it wasn't that teachers weren't flexible or anything like that. It just was trying to fit timing in and all of that. So I I feel like we've made some good inroads with that as well, but just to kind of have that be a little more supportive for our students, for our teachers, and just continue, like like Nicole said, you know, we've we've really the communication, I I give a lot of credit to these teachers. I really do. And I know Nicole would agree. You know, you're asking a big change of philosophy, not just, you know, not just a change in schedule. You're saying, hey, I'm gonna take some of your kids. How you how are you gonna feel about that? And they have been really, really good. The conversations, the questions, the questions we've had, just all on board. Really, they're our kids, they're not, you know, teacher whoever kids. They're our kids, and we're all in it together, all having these conversations. And so they've really made it a big success. The kids have been wonderful. No matter what what group they're in, what you're throwing at them, they are there, they're buying in and they're working their little tails off. And I couldn't be more proud of them as well. So I I think all of that, just continuing that forward motion and kind of getting that reading up off the ground is is exciting.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, I think it's incredible. You guys have done just amazing work. I feel so blessed that we have the two of you supporting our students and and then willing to kind of be a part of just trying something new, right? Like you mentioned, that is a huge mindset shift. It is a culture shift, and that is not possible without champions of it and folks that are willing to put the time and energy in. So thank you both for everything that you do. It's fantastic. Really blessed to have you as a part of the team and grateful that you were here today to chat.

SPEAKER_02 17:45

Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for your support and to Mrs. Hayes as well. It's yeah, it's truly been everybody. So top down, we feel blessed to be hers. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Thanks for listening to Rooted in Rising. We'll be back next week with another story worth celebrating.