S01E04: Cimarron

It's our first western as we work our way through reviewing all the Oscar Best Picture winners. And let's just say there were some divided opinions among the cohosts. We also take a few moments to discuss what makes a film timeless and, as per usual, don't really come up with an answer.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:38

Hello and welcome to Cinema Social Club. I'm Cameron, and joining me this week are Glenn, Sarah, and Elisa. And on this week's episode, we'll be looking at the fourth best picture Oscar winner and the first Western to win, Cimarron. But before we get to that, some entertainment news for you. A new song for the latest Toy Story film debuted at number one on the charts this week. It was written by a Taylor Swift. Nice to see Disney giving a break to some up-and-coming talent. The Devil Wears Prada 2 has driven the film franchise past the $1 billion mark, so prepare yourselves for the Devil Wears Prada 3, only joking it's Louis Vuitton, coming soon to a theater near you. And finally, it's been announced that the Duffer Brothers, best known for helming the Netflix hit Stranger Things, are working on a film for Paramount, set to be released in 2028. Paramount refused to share any information other than to say it would be an event picture. What exactly is an event picture, you ask? I've got absolutely no idea. And now this week's Top 5 at the box office. At number 5, down from number 2 and fading fast, is Masters of the Universe, likely to be one of the biggest box office flops this year. It's Mattel's first movie since their huge success with Barbie. It remains to be seen how this will affect its upcoming release, Matchbox the Movie. Sadly, I am not making that up. At number four, it's the interm internet-based horror film Backrooms, which I will never see. At number three, it's the comedy horror film Scary Movie. The latest, and I would suggest not the last in that movie franchise. At number two, climbing back from number four and on a bit of a roller coaster at the box office, it's the horror movie Obsession. And finally, at number one, by a large, large margin, it's the new release from the box office certainty Steven Spielberg, the sci-fi What If Film disclosure day. And with all that out of the way, we turn to our topic of discussion for this week. And this one was provided by loyal listener Alisa, who also happens to be one of the co-hosts on this very podcast. And her question is what makes a movie timeless? And here are my co-hosts to discuss that very topic.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Dead air. I will go first. I think you should.

SPEAKER_05 3:11

You looked up the word timeless, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03 3:12

I did. I asked AI what makes a movie timeless.

SPEAKER_06 3:16

And and the first it came up, it is without time.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

The first thing it said was, and I quote very slowly. And so if these if these themes like love and you know any universal human emotion or theme is recurring, it's gonna recur through life. So if if a movie is capturing that, it's probably gonna stand the test of time. Because that that never changes.

SPEAKER_06 3:55

Yeah, I can tell you from the start, love is not a universal theme. There are some of us completely devoid of that particular emotion.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

And I have more to add when everyone's no no no no I was gonna say. Well, I mean, I I agree with that to a certain extent. I don't think that a movie having universal themes of the human experience automatically makes it timeless because I think the human experience is directly correlated to the time in which a human is experiencing it. So there are certain love stories and certain, you know, justice stories and revenge, like all of those things, those deep raw emotions that do directly link to the time period in which they were experienced that might not hit as much now. And that's not always true. Because, like for me, one of the examples I thought of was like, and this is purely subjective, but like 2005's Pride and Prejudice, I consider to be a pretty timeless film because it has great messaging that I think can be applied to a lot of different time periods, and I think that it's a great message.

SPEAKER_06 4:59

Also based on a timeless book.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

It is, and that's the thing. I think the source content has to be considered because it is timeless literature, and therefore the translation was inevitably going to have that, if it was done well, would have that same essence.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

But what about it makes it timeless? Is it the story? Is it the characters? Is it the recurring themes that all humans have had over millennia? What is it?

SPEAKER_03 5:23

I can go ahead and say it's probably all of that.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

I would yeah, I would say it's a mix of everything with those things. And I think, because I don't necessarily think that a movie, like specifically Elizabeth's story, for in for example, in Pride and Prejudice, like yes, like clinging hard to this pride and prejudice. But just like, yes, specifically, she is looking for like she's being pressured to find a husband. That is the particular moment of the time. But what is happening and what the story is about is getting out of your own way and being willing to be open to the whether it's love, acceptance, friendship, anything, getting out of those prejudices. And I think that's the part that feels really timeless is that message because that can be applied anytime.

SPEAKER_06 6:04

My only thing here is I I feel like 95, 98% of all films have some sort of universal emotion in them because that's just what Hollywood does. And that's not, I mean, there's not 95% of timeless films. No, it's also Caddyshack, which have absolutely no universal emotions in them, but are also a timeless film because it's Caddyshack.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

So there's yeah, I don't think timeless and quality are mutually exclusive, right?

SPEAKER_05 6:35

And then there's a broad, there's a broader sense to what is timeless, obviously, um, just the human experience. And then you have the narrower parts of varied various human experiences that can be timeless. Um, that I think that's what because it's a it's a really it's a great question to ask, first of all. It's a really difficult one to pin down because it's not one thing. No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 7:00

It's not. And the discussion I had with my friend on the train, shout out to Wendy. Shout out to you.

SPEAKER_05 7:09

Hi, Wendy.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

We talked about it, and and that's what we said. We we came up with a couple things, and she was like, but what about the characters? But what about the plot? And and we decided, yeah, it has to encompass a lot of things. Just about anything.

SPEAKER_05 7:22

I mean, if you go back to the earliest, you know, Greek plays, you know, there are there are things that happen in them, there are characters and archetypes that still exist in stories now. Correct. In a way we retell the same stories, but for a different audience and for a different uh set of ethos and tenets and ethics and morals.

SPEAKER_03 7:44

And that that's another thing in and of itself, is that if people are remaking the movie with the newer um technology and characters and and and all that, if it's remakable, they probably thought pretty highly of it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Or or they recognize it as a mass popular movement.

SPEAKER_05 8:07

There's also a cash grab factor to that. But that's not always true. That doesn't mean it's not timeless.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

100%. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:13

So well, they also remake bad movies.

SPEAKER_05 8:15

Yeah. Yeah. But uh there and I was listening to a different podcast today and uh Ben Mankowitz was having a conversation with Sally Field about timeless films, and they they brought up Gone with the Wind, and they said it has they have both of them have many issues with Gone with the Wind in that what was appropriate, what they felt was appropriate in that while they were making that movie. But they felt that the story in that was absolutely timeless. The story about uh individualism in hardship, war, how people cope, um, a strong female character that again has been happening in in uh sh uh movies and plays since Greek trag tragedies. Um so it's it's timeless, but at the same time, there's issues with it. Sure. You know, it's kind of funny. So you yeah, I I thought it was really hard to pin this one down, but worth talking about.

SPEAKER_06 9:16

I mean, at the end of the day, it also, like everything else in life, it boils down largely to luck because 100%. Whether your film is remembered is based on whether it was successful at the time, whether it was critically successful at the time, and all of that is a crapshoot. I mean, because there are very well-made films that were forgotten about because they didn't have the luck of being a gone with the wind that for some random reason is Jezebel, which is a very similar film to Gone with the Wind, and I would argue a better film than Gone with the Winds.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

Yeah, maybe even a better film.

SPEAKER_06 9:53

Mostly forgotten. Yeah, I mean, it's still held up by the sort of film nerd people, but I mean it's not Gone with the Winds.

SPEAKER_05 10:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

But I also think like I I would be willing to bet that if you asked a room of people whether or not they thought Star Wars was a timeless film, they would say yes. And I think it would largely be due to the cultural impact that it had at the time and the legacy that that then created. Because I mean that's a film that generationally people talk about and experience.

SPEAKER_06 10:21

Well, and arguably it's not a great film. I mean, exactly. That's what I mean. Like it's not a great film, right? It's not great, but it would be timeless.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

It would be considered timeless. So I don't think quality is necessarily as big a factor in timelessness, especially when you're looking at older, some older films.

SPEAKER_05 10:37

What's funny, and it I'm sorry, it reminded me, it's making me go back to Gone with the Wind again. Sure. Gone with the Wind was timeless for decades, but it's in a way it stopped being quote unquote timeless because of the ethics involved and how much society was unwilling to overlook the dark parts of that.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

And you have a movie like Star Wars, okay, it's it's not gonna suffer the same problem. It won't, no. You know, it's so funny because it'll it may suffer different problems.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

Well, not the first Star Wars film. Yeah, some of them start suffering from that period.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

But both of them are like timeless, but for completely different reasons, and and then they can they can be forgotten, you know.

SPEAKER_06 11:21

Well, there's also cultural culturally significant films that aren't timeless. Birth of a nation arguably is a culturally significant film, yeah, but I would argue not timeless.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

100%.

SPEAKER_06 11:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 11:33

And it goes hand in hand with movies that simply don't age well. And yes. There you go.

SPEAKER_06 11:38

Yeah. Well, and a lot of films that don't age well probably weren't that great to begin with. Right. I mean, the reason Birth of a Nation is good is because it's technically well made.

SPEAKER_05 11:49

Right.

SPEAKER_06 11:49

The the the story behind it is now reprehensible and sort of reprehensible then, sure, but it's technically very well done. Well, it's the same with Lenny Rufenstall and her film German Nazi films, yeah, which are horrible propaganda for the Nazis, but are really well made.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:11

Yeah. I would consider a lot of Pixar and Disney films to be pretty timeless. I mean, you look at something like Toy Story, I don't think that anyone could really look at Toy Story 50, 60, some odd years from now and find reasons to dislike it. Although I mean the core message is important.

SPEAKER_06 12:26

Toy Story may start to suffer by the fact they're making so many.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

And that will be the issue with Toy Story is the fact that we're now on like five.

SPEAKER_06 12:33

I think they're slightly they're oversaturating the market.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

But if you go back to that first one, or like Monsters Inc. or show like those first movies that really kind of capture the magic, I hesitate to go older Disney because then you do get into the issues of just the fact that, you know, you look at Dumbo, for example, and all those types of films. There is a lot in old school Disney that is now really not culturally acceptable.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

But you look at something like Beauty and the Beast. I mean, I as a 30-year-old watch that and still really love it. And there is just something really magical about it that's but you're also very sad. I am true. I am. I am a sad millennial, and I really respond to those films.

SPEAKER_05 13:13

It's all right. I I get it. I get it. I go to Bad for Bambi. I'll go to Bad for Bambi every time.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Yeah, there's a deal.

SPEAKER_06 13:19

I would argue Bambi of the Walt Disney films is not the timeless one of the early ones. Is that right? I don't think so. I think it's more like a Snow White, is the timeless.

SPEAKER_05 13:28

How about that?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yeah, I would say it would probably land somewhere in like Snow White would be considered. I mean, a lot of people have seen Bambi. Bambi is definitely one of those ones that you cannot escape seeing as a child. I think everyone at some point has been exposed to it. But in terms of the ones that you like really talk about going into adulthood and the ones that continue to be retold, it's like Cinderella, Beauty and the Beast, like all of those timeless fairy tale stories that again, the messaging is like a bit questionable in places, but it has managed to remain a classic.

SPEAKER_06 13:59

This is slightly off topic, but correct me if I'm wrong, Beauty and the Beast is not that old a Disney film, right? It is now. It's like the 90s, though. Yeah. It's not like it's not old.

SPEAKER_01 14:11

There's a big, big gap.

SPEAKER_06 14:13

Well, and at the end of the day, Bambi is timeless in as much as any film from that era that's still talked about is by definition timeless.

SPEAKER_05 14:20

And the reason I called Bambi timeless is because it contains what's known as a hero's uh journey. And that's as old as stories. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 14:29

Well, and they just asked a trivia question about it at trivia the other night. What was the first word that Bambi spoke in the film? First word.

SPEAKER_01 14:38

I'm I shouldn't have this. I was gonna say, wasn't it mom or mother?

SPEAKER_05 14:42

No, it isn't. It's um it was not it wasn't pretty. Um was it flower? No, what was it? Bird, bird, bird.

SPEAKER_03 14:54

Look at that. Yeah, would you ever equate rewatchability with timeless, as in like Jaws? Again, it doesn't have to be rewatchable. Is that immediately timeless?

SPEAKER_05 15:09

I think if it's highly rewatchable, there's some element of timelessness to it. I don't know if it's the same as I I don't know. I mean to I to me, yes. There has to be some element of timelessness to it.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

I think rewatchability is a lot more subjective. Right. Well, let's be honest, timelessness is. I think there's some with timelessness that just sort of like gone with the wind. Perfect example. I have no interest in seeing that film again. I saw it one time and I was like, that is more than enough for me. Yeah. But I can also objectively acknowledge the timelessness of it and the cultural and social impact of it, but that does not mean I want to watch it.

SPEAKER_06 15:48

I mean, 2001 is timeless, but Forest Gulf would probably be a little bit more. It also seems to take up a lot of time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:54

So there I think rewatchability and enjoyment and timelessness do not necessarily go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

But it can. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:06

I love the question.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

It's a go, it's a hard one to answer, but it's a very good question.

SPEAKER_05 16:11

I would love to hear what our audience thinks.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

No, I don't. Give us some timeless examples, please.

SPEAKER_06 16:18

I end up with like, uh, I think uh every Adam Sandler movie is timeless.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

I mean Shrek is pretty timeless, I have to say. And I actually mean that genuinely. I think Shrek is pretty timeless. It's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_06 16:32

Timelessness is a very subjective thing in that regard.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

But is it because I'm trying to think now, what if there was some type of rubric for a movie and you rated it on all of the things you think create a timeless movie?

SPEAKER_06 16:50

Could you come up with a movie is what makes a timeless movie?

SPEAKER_01 16:53

I think that's the thing. So then you get into like Turner classic movies, and then there are a lot like Criterion collections. It's they're all wildly based on different people's opinions, like analytical and scientific opinions, so to speak, but it's all for different reasons. So I think there are a ton of those lists settings.

SPEAKER_03 17:10

Maybe we should make a list of movies.

SPEAKER_06 17:13

We yeah, but that would be timeless to us. Yes, but that doesn't have timeless to the other. Oh I know.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

I'm just saying, what do four the four of us think are timeless movies?

SPEAKER_06 17:22

Oh, well, I guarantee you the four of us aren't going to agree on it.

SPEAKER_03 17:26

But I'm excited to try. Empirically, Jaws is always mentioned. Sure. Space Odyssey is always mentioned. I would say so.

SPEAKER_06 17:35

Jurassic Park, again, but then I can I can clearly admit there are people who would not find 2001 a timeless.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Oh yeah, I agree. Yeah, I agreed. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 17:46

But I do think it's so again, I don't think there's anything you can be empirically about when it comes to whether something's time was very difficult. Yeah, very difficult.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

It's a very sort of and it's also a moving target, I think. It's what? It's a moving target.

SPEAKER_06 18:00

It is a moving target, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 18:03

Well, uh, on that on that riveting conclusion to our topic that we didn't really come up with an answer for. But maybe that's the planet. That's the answer. There is no answer, is the answer. Uh, we now move on to the real meat and potatoes of this podcast, where we talk about uh the Oscar-winning picture that we watched this week. And this week it is 1931's Western Cimarron. The film is directed by one-time Charlie Chaplin shorts actor Wesley Ruggles and is based on a novel by Edna Ferber. It stars Richard Dix, one of Glenn's favoritely named actors, and Irene Dunn, and tells the story of a young couple chasing success in an Oklahoma land rush before eventually becoming a melodrama about the newspaper business. It's a film that most is most notable for being the first Western to win best picture, and also for the last Western to win best picture for 60 years until Dancing with Wolves in 1990.

SPEAKER_00 19:06

My god.

SPEAKER_06 19:07

It is also the first picture to win uh to be nominated for every category at the Academy Awards, but that's also because there was only eight categories at the time.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

I was gonna say, good lord.

SPEAKER_06 19:21

Um, but is this early Western still worthy of that gold statue? Well, here's what we think as we open it up the floor to my fellow co-host to give our opinions on Cimarron.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I God, okay. I mean, I know we're gonna get into our official official ratings, but one of the first things that popped into my head about this film as we were watching it was I I genuinely did not like the look of it. And it's not because it was black and white, because I love a polished, and we've watched a few gorgeous black and white films on this podcast. So that was not the problem. The set was so unbelievably chaotic. And I understand that, like, we were in the middle of the land rush, they're kind of plopping you right in there. I get, and that can work and it can be done the right way, but I don't know what was going on with the audio. I could not make heads or tails of anything that was going on for a good chunk of the first part of the film, and it was just so chaotic to look at, and for me, not in a way that was fine.

SPEAKER_06 20:24

I fear we've been slightly spoiled by the fact that you know, wings and all quiet on the winter. Really good run. Not all films from 1930s, 20s, and 30s were preserved to the level of them. Uh, I will also say this film screamed of we're filming on a set, everything looked like sets rather than sort of naturalistic kind of and really compressed as a result.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Like you're so used to in a western, and I talked about this a little bit while we were watching it. But the one thing, even when it's not a great western that you can typically count on, is you're gonna have some gorgeous landscapes, it's gonna be great to look at. The costuming is typically like you just kind of expect a western to have a lot of people. Yeah, like aesthetic standard, and this just did not hit any of those notes.

SPEAKER_05 21:12

Kind of honestly, you I was feeling the same thing. I was like, even when they were outside, say they were coming into town for the first time on their little wagon, it felt claustrophobic to be able to do it. Very claustrophobic. You're out in Oklahoma in the wide open west. Why does this scene feel claustrophobic?

SPEAKER_06 21:30

Yes, it was also not really western. I mean, yeah, they could have changed the plot, they could have changed the characters and location of this, and it would have been basically the same film. Yeah, there's nothing particularly western about it. Yeah, other than there was a land rush at the beginning of it. Right. Yeah, which at least part was quite impressive.

SPEAKER_05 21:46

At least that was outside, you know, and on a filmed on an open plane.

SPEAKER_06 21:50

Famously five thousand extras is that what it was and twenty eight cameras. It looked like and the problem was the film kind of peaked there. Yeah, yeah. In the first five minutes. It was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 22:05

And I think it's because when you say it, you mean the film. The film because it really, it really wasn't a western. It really hit on a lot of things that I know you're giving each other the.

SPEAKER_05 22:19

No, no, no. You're gonna find out you're not alone in your opinion.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Um, I like the fact that they hit on the human emotions and the the struggles of all these people. I would put this, okay. Hold on to your campchairs. I would say this was a timeless movie.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Okay, we have not shown you enough westerns.

SPEAKER_05 22:42

This movie grew on me. I did not like it at the beginning. I was confused by characters. I didn't like the fact that it felt claustrophobic. I didn't like the way it sounded, I didn't like the way it looked, I didn't like the way the characters were acting, but as the movie progressed, I found myself actually enjoying it.

SPEAKER_06 23:01

I was interested in it. The look of confusion on Sarah's.

SPEAKER_05 23:06

This is why they make chocolate and vanilla and strawberries. That's totally fair.

SPEAKER_06 23:10

And this is very vanilla.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

I found it growing on me. Interesting. I found the characters changed enough. And now some of the character arcs not so believable, others maybe a little bit more so. But I did find myself enjoying the movie and thinking the first of all, I like Irene Dunn. I've seen her in more movies than this. Sure. Always thought she was a great actress, always thought she was beautiful. Did not like her at the beginning of this. Um, but as as time went on, I did see her her character arc changing, and the way she was acting made to me made it believable. Like I believe she was changing more so than you guys did as as she was making her changes.

SPEAKER_06 23:54

I mean, I think she changed, she just changed so abruptly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Well, it's only a two-hour move.

SPEAKER_06 24:00

Yeah, I mean yeah, but it was literally like one day.

SPEAKER_05 24:02

She was like, Well, I was I was I was okay. There were there were times when you weren't sure. She was she was pondering back and forth. That one that one scene where we weren't sure if she was angry or if she was buying into it. Sure. I think she was in her mind, in the character's mind, she was bouncing back and forth, ended up landing on anger, but she was beginning to change. And that's what I that's why I'm thinking I liked this as it progressed. I I just did.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

And I think, and I think Cameron will agree with me on this, because I do think that this was trying to be a Western. I don't think it was trying to be anything but a Western. I think it failed in that attempt. And I have seen Westerns that are extremely effective character studies, first case in point, open range. Yes, that is a western that is not a typical Western because it is much more about the characters and the journey of those characters and the arcs and the minds changed, and that is how you tell a character-driven Western. This did not have that for me.

SPEAKER_05 25:01

See, I didn't feel like it was a Western after once it got as a Western.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

I think that's why I figured I liked it because it really wasn't a lot of things.

SPEAKER_06 25:13

To me, it changed. Sarah says I'll agree with her. I don't agree with her on that. I probably do agree with her that it is shockingly terrible. Yeah, I just like to do it. And I don't believe there's any character arcs. I think they are about as one note character as you can pass. That is possible.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

That's kind of how I felt. Like the moments with um the like the main characters Yancy, which is an insane name, but the moments with Yancy where he had the chance to actually sort of have some solid dialogue and we got to hear his beliefs and ideals. I was 100% on board for him. I thought he was great. The actor and the delivery made it almost impossible for me to root for him. Yeah. And I also like, yes, he's a good person, but also he disappeared for like a decade and a half. Like, yeah, for a period of five years he was fighting the war, but then he literally disappeared for long enough for it to have an industrial. He's just gone.

SPEAKER_05 26:14

There is, and we and you missed it.

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Is it just that he's called to the West again? Because that's not an impressive expensive.

SPEAKER_05 26:21

You caught it when he called her Penelope. You you caught it when when he called his wife Penelope, and that is the name of Odysseus's wife when he goes off on his Odyssey. And that's that's what he was, that's who he was. See, and that to me because Odysseus was successful. He was successful, huh? Sure.

SPEAKER_03 26:41

That is who he was. He was a go-getter, a pioneer in the truest sense of the word, and he was that's I thought I was going to make it in in life.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

But he didn't. But he did, but he didn't. His wife had his legacy.

SPEAKER_05 26:58

But he he made it in his own way.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

I think my biggest issue with it is that we don't see any of that journey of his. He's just gone. And I fully appreciate the like cultural.

SPEAKER_05 27:08

Because we're seeing it from the standpoint of his family.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

Yeah, and I fully appreciate the cultural reference of the story of Penelope and Orpheus. But that right there, to me, is the ultimate Western archetype. Is the guy who has that manifest destiny and runs off, like so that is the ultimate earmark of a cowboy western, is the cowboy who just can't be tamed. That's the entire point of the title. So you can't lean on these western ideal like ideas, but then fall flat.

SPEAKER_05 27:37

Well, that's why I think that's why I don't call it a Western so much.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

And that's totally fair. And for me, I see that as a failed attempt and not a pivot, not a creative pivot.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

I love it. This is good.

SPEAKER_03 27:47

This is interesting. You could have you could have put all those dynamics in a completely different setting. It didn't have to be the wild west.

SPEAKER_06 27:55

Yeah, that was not a positive for me.

SPEAKER_04 27:59

I wasn't putting that up as a positive.

SPEAKER_05 28:01

I think this this explains why this movie is kind of universally disliked because it couldn't, it didn't seem to land on any one thing. It did win the Oscar that year, but it's considered one of the worst movies to win.

SPEAKER_06 28:15

We also have to remember Glenn was alive when it was made. So he has his life with a review point.

SPEAKER_05 28:19

I mean, and I did I did invest, I was one of the executive producers, actually.

SPEAKER_06 28:23

Yeah, yeah. And my problem with the main character, Yansey, and again, well, the problem was with Sarah, half the time I sort of was getting into his acting, was getting better. But then it would just go shift back into like old school, broad, silent movie acting. Yeah. And he also the makeup jobs were bad. They would be not going to be able to do that. I mean the one thing I will give this movie that I thought was impressive was the aging progress.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

Yeah, the age progression was.

SPEAKER_06 28:53

They did actually look like older versions of themselves.

SPEAKER_05 28:56

Yeah, without being silly, but without looking very weird. I I I kept watching um him in this uh the uh Yancey and thinking, boy, I wish Jimmy Stewart would have been around to give this this role a trunk. I really thought like Jimmy Stewart could have nailed a role like that.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

I also like the way a lot of things we were picking out and and poking fun of was you know, oh, the racism, um, you know, the the political stuff that was going on. It transcended time in that we're we're still now dealing with stuff again. We're dealing with that. Sure. We're dealing with the the the dirty politics, yeah, you know, just again, timeless right.

SPEAKER_05 29:46

And we're and yeah, and the fact that Yancey's character was a progressive in that one. You want to step up to the bat on this one, Sarah? Do you want me to make it or do you want me to be like?

SPEAKER_01 29:54

Like the like the Isaiah character, for example. Identifying that racism exists does not make a film timeless, especially if you are playing into a lot of the stereotypes, which is what Isaiah was doing. That character.

SPEAKER_05 30:07

They weren't supporting those stereotypes.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

They weren't, but they were using them. And I'm not saying that it's they were pro or against it, but I don't think. Absolutely, but I also don't think that that makes a movie timeless having those themes because it doesn't matter if it's timeless or not.

SPEAKER_03 30:23

But it's re it's revisited again today. Because the problem has not been solved, right?

SPEAKER_06 30:28

Yeah, it's revisited today in much better films. We've come so far.

SPEAKER_01 30:33

We're not talking about all films, we're talking about this film. Sure.

SPEAKER_05 30:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

And it did, it had a lot of themes that are still relevant today.

SPEAKER_05 30:42

I do think that's another reason I liked it, it is because actually this was a pretty progressive, in my opinion, this was a pretty progressive film and and politically progressive, which was probably a pretty dangerous thing in the uh year that it came out.

SPEAKER_03 30:58

Yeah. And it was far from perfect. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm sure when we get into our ratings, you know, I I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

SPEAKER_05 31:07

I think it's I think a movie that that engenders this much debate is I that makes it more fun when it's like that. Because there's so many different facets to it that we see different ways.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

I thought I was gonna be alone against three. Thank you, Glenn. I'm so glad.

SPEAKER_06 31:29

Uh yeah, let's get on to our uh our four categories in which we rate films. Uh so far we have uh there's four categories. It's out of five for each categories we have to agree on a score.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

We're gonna be doing some averaging. This is gonna be where I get 100%. We're gonna be in the middle.

SPEAKER_06 31:49

So the best uh film can get is 20, and the worst a film can get is zero, which the Broadway melody does a real good run at. Just a reminder we have wings at 16, all quite on the Western Front at 15, and the Broadway melody coming in at a staggering 1.5. Uh, and we'll start with visuals out of five. This would encompass a lot of different things, costumes and cinematography, and see for me, this is probably the one I'm going to be the least flexible about.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I would not give this more than a two because I think visually this was kind of an absolute mess.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

Visually a mess. I don't think the the cinematography was that great. No. Um I probably would give it a three.

SPEAKER_05 32:39

Uh I can't go higher than two on visuals.

SPEAKER_06 32:45

I I'm actually probably a bit lower. I mean, the the aside from the the aging makeup, which I thought was quite good. The problem is the rest of the makeup was shockingly bad. Yeah. And uh it was it was hard to buy. The boots were nice. The boots were so shiny.

SPEAKER_02 33:05

All right, a five for the boots. Nice costume.

SPEAKER_06 33:08

So I'm I'm probably at like a one. One seems harsh.

SPEAKER_05 33:12

Two, second movie in a row where boots played a part.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

The boots are important.

SPEAKER_06 33:16

I would probably go, I would probably yeah, and they kept coming back as well. Uh so we're at about a two for visuals.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

I think that feels better.

SPEAKER_06 33:24

Um story. Here's where it starts to go off the rails. I mean, my main problem with the story is it started with a story and then it sort of stopped having a story after a while. Yeah, that is kind of my like there was a whole sort of you're you're up against these these bad guys, and there's some sort of thing that he wants to print in the newspaper, and I'm like, oh, so the story is they're trying to prevent him from announcing this whole, but then they sort of just they wrap it up at the first 45 minutes, and then the movie keeps going, and you're like, Well, I guess that's not the yeah, and I think and then that story sort of fell apart after that. There was really nothing else going on except he would leave, and then she would run the newspaper, and then he'd come back, and then he'd leave again. But there was no real story.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

No, which is why I think the messaging of the film, there are parts of it that are very like very effective and very important and very progressive, but the the way we tie those pieces together is so important. Yeah, and we just did not do that here. There were some great scenes and essentially no storyline for me.

SPEAKER_05 34:34

I think that's why we differed on whether or not we think it's a western or something else, because the story didn't really pick. Not really, and it wasn't I I the threads just came apart as the story went along or whatever we were following. Sure. Because it did, it was a different story at the beginning than the middle, than whatever it was at the end.

SPEAKER_06 34:57

Very uneven time jumps as well. Because it like I will take a movie like Citizen Kane as an example, which is a sort of another movie that takes place over a large period of time, but it's a more seamless sort of travel through time. This was like the first half of the movie took place at a certain time, and then all of a sudden you were skipping all over the place, and you'd spend like five minutes in a vignette at a certain time, and then they'd skip another eight years, and you'd be in another vignette for five minutes. But it just felt like I that was the story now, was just time passing. But because you were never in a time period long enough to develop any sort of story because then they move quickly on to the next. The only real thing was the story was the development of the town, I guess. But that wasn't really yeah, there wasn't a lot of things.

SPEAKER_05 35:45

And that wasn't even the story. Oh, it wasn't the story, yeah. That's so weird.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

While yes, it was the only constant in the yeah, and while, yes, like the the wife ultimately did change her mind and get on the right side of it. We don't get to see any of that.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

No, we didn't.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

We just land there, which I think again for me is why this felt really hollow because we just end up where we ideally would like to end up. We don't see any of the actual journey to get there because to Cam's point, we have so many time.

SPEAKER_05 36:14

Interestingly, that can one of the reasons I can see you would not buy her character arc would be that last change when it becomes 1929 and suddenly she's like he was at the beginning. And that's yeah, and I'm like, wait a minute, he's been gone for the last how many years. Yep. What made her change? I wanted to know that exactly. Like I was buying the little tiny changes I thought she might be having, but that wholesale swap over, and again, that has to do with story. It's like what you we you you cheated us out of whatever that story was that did this with her.

SPEAKER_06 36:48

Well, and and let's not go so far as saying this was like a great feminist track either. She basically changed her name because of the greatness of her husband. Really truly, yes.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Like she was she was chasing his legacy, not her own. By her own admission, she was doing that.

SPEAKER_06 37:07

Uh story.

SPEAKER_01 37:08

Anyway, story.

SPEAKER_06 37:09

Story revive. Sorry, we went back into general discussion.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

And I'm willing to bump this, but this would probably be because of just how hard it was to kind of pull all of it together in the end. I would probably be between like a two and a half and a three.

SPEAKER_05 37:24

You're actually gonna give it better than I would. Oh wow, I'm sure. I'm sure I could as as much as I overall liked it, the story was kind of hard for me to find out. I had given a two for the story.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

Hey, I'll be happy to land.

SPEAKER_05 37:40

I I there was a story in there that I wanted that I wished for, that I was imagining in my mind that wasn't that wasn't actually on that screen. Yes. So my story is was like a three there, but they didn't give me a three, they gave me a two.

SPEAKER_03 37:57

I'm still gonna give it a three. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 37:59

Okay. I'm at it. I'm again, I think I'm thinking I'm being generous with a two, but should we say two and a half?

SPEAKER_01 38:06

Or two. I'm honestly fine with two.

SPEAKER_06 38:09

I think it's a well, I mean, there's three twos and a three. I think on average, it's probably a two. Yeah, I think.

SPEAKER_05 38:15

Oh, it's a two? Okay.

SPEAKER_06 38:16

That's fine. I mean, it's like a two point one. Like not real great at maths, but we need it. Uh okay, this might be controversial.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

Well, I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 38:27

Acting.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Hmm. Some of it was good, some of it wasn't. Yeah, that's honestly very true.

SPEAKER_06 38:35

This movie certainly had the holdout of silent movie acting still in it.

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Yes, it did. It definitely did.

SPEAKER_06 38:41

And there were parts of the movie where it felt like a silent, like the score would drop off, and it felt like a silent movie. Yes, we'd be like, right after the land rush when they were just sort of traveling through the country. There's like no sound at all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

Acting was uh it was rough, it was uneven. Um I did think he got better. He got a lot of better, yes. And I don't know if that's I don't know if that was supposed to happen like for his character, or he just like got into it. Did they film this thing in sequence and he actually became a better actor?

SPEAKER_06 39:12

And Irene character he choice he made to make himself seem older, yeah, made him better. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 39:18

I thought Irene Dunn was pretty steady throughout as far as her professionalism and her ability to convey, although she confused us one or two times.

SPEAKER_06 39:28

So well, I think that's the difference between acting and the words she's been given to say. Yeah, I think she was given anything to work with. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_05 39:36

So I mean I think the acting was pretty good for me. Uh I it's some of the better acting we've seen so far in the movies that we've watched. So I would have to give it a three overall.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

I liked her, I liked uh Saul Levy. I thought he was pretty sick. Saul was great. Honestly, Saul was my highlight.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Saul was for sure my highlight.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

We we laughed at her every time, but whoever that snooty lady was really good.

SPEAKER_06 40:04

She couldn't settle on an accent, though. She was all over the map with her delivery. It was her irony. I loved it.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Well, and the woman who and we didn't talk about her much, but I actually thought she was a very good actress. The woman who played the Dixie Lee. Dixie Lee. Dixie Lee was very good.

SPEAKER_06 40:18

I think Dixie Lee was better than the Irene Dunn could be.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

I actually don't disagree with that statement. Like the scene with her in the courtroom, the amount of nuance that she was able to show without saying a word compared to everyone else who was just hammering.

SPEAKER_06 40:32

Yeah, I would actually argue Irene Dunn in those scenes was overacting. I agree. And Dixie Lee was sort of doing the most naturalistic of the things.

SPEAKER_01 40:39

Yeah, so I like Dixie Lee and Soul Levy would for me be the two standout characters in terms of acting, but uh they would swing it to like a three for me because they didn't.

SPEAKER_06 40:48

I'd also rather watch a film on either of those.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

Honestly, yeah, it's really the two of them together would be even better.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

We need backstories for both of them. Let's make that movie.

SPEAKER_06 40:58

Because really, Yancey's character is the equivalent of Sean Bean on uh what was that show that everyone was obsessed with?

SPEAKER_05 41:05

Uh Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_06 41:06

He's like this moralistic sort of perfect character. Yes. And you're like, okay, well, this is getting real boring after a while.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

True. They also the the guy who did the printing press stuff was um I thought he was pretty. He was very underutilized. No, but I mean he was he was even throughout the whole thing. He was consistent.

SPEAKER_05 41:27

Yeah, yeah, I didn't like that they did the stutter thing with him, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 41:31

No, that was a different one. That was not the newspaper. See, this wasn't the same guy. Three men in her life other than her husband. I thought it was the same. I thought it was a good one. I thought it was the same guy, too.

SPEAKER_06 41:40

Well, anyway, acting. Yeah. Glenn's at a three. Glenn at three feels fair. Okay. Okay, three. Three feels fair. Uh, and rewatchability.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

This is where the agreeing is gonna get tricky.

SPEAKER_06 41:54

I'll walk out on the dock by myself on this one. It's not gonna be high.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

No, it's not. And I've seen this before.

SPEAKER_06 42:00

This is like my second time watching it, and uh it was tough the first time. Yeah, wow, and it was tough this time.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

For me personally, it is a one. I am happy if the average.

SPEAKER_06 42:13

By the way, you are you are able to give zeros, but ooh. I'm just saying, zero is a score you can give. Because we obviously it is because we gave uh the one movie a one.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

We did get probably both that was definitely a zero across the board. Um this is a tough one for me because I'm trying to be fair. You just gave it a one. And there were well, no, now I'm debating about the zero. Um I'm playing the zero option. Um, no, you know, I'll still give it a one because there were parts of it that I would, I mean, I would never seek to put this on. But if someone else was like, hey, I'd be like, all right. Like, I you know, one or two shining moments of some halfway decent speeches I could sit through again.

SPEAKER_06 43:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

So I'll probably give it.

SPEAKER_06 43:03

So you basically want a YouTube clip version of the page. I'll put it this way.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

If I had if I was locked in a room, this is like Elisa style. If I was locked in a room tied to a chair forced to watch a film, and it was between this and Broadway Melody. All right, probably that may be a coming test for me.

SPEAKER_06 43:20

It's very I think the rewatchability is is equally low on both of those.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

But so for that reason, it's gonna be a one.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

Okay, but it does make me appreciate Alkway unless I run a lot.

SPEAKER_03 43:29

It's a three for me.

SPEAKER_06 43:30

Okay, uh, Glenn.

SPEAKER_05 43:32

Yeah, I I can't honestly can't think of people I would say, hey, you should sit down and watch this movie. And for me, watching it again would be tough. I I I'm not gonna give it a one, I'll give it a two. Okay. But that's a pretty generous.

SPEAKER_06 43:47

Well, you could tell them there's way better irritating on films. That's true. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

Well, yes, across the board.

SPEAKER_05 43:53

But I'll give it a two.

SPEAKER_06 43:54

Um in your one, three, two, so six, and I met up. I don't really want to do math. I mean, I'm at a one. But seven. So that makes seven, but seven divided by four.

SPEAKER_01 44:10

Seven divided by four is math.

SPEAKER_06 44:11

Yeah, that's math. Is it one point seven five? I think it's one point seven five. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Yeah, there you go. It's one point seven five.

SPEAKER_06 44:19

Okay, so uh on that uh epic showing of our abilities, wow uh we give the a grand total of nine out of twenty. So I mean, I honestly going into the recording of this podcast, nine is more generous than I thought.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

To be totally honest, I went into this a lot more confident that we were all on the same page.

SPEAKER_06 44:42

I mean, we sort of all ended up with the water. We did mathematically, our breakdowns were pretty much. It's not like Glenn thought it was like the greatest Western ever made, and we thought it was thoroughly trashworthy.

SPEAKER_01 44:54

Yes. We landed we thought it was thoroughly trashworthy.

SPEAKER_06 44:57

Glenn just thought it was okay.

SPEAKER_05 44:59

I think it's we both ended up enjoying it a little bit more than you. Yeah, that's totally fair.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Because you're the two old people on the podcast. And that's because it was the least western western we could have showed you. That is correct. Probably. Which is so ironic because that's why I didn't like it. Because it was the least western western I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

But I will go out on a limb and say this is probably going to be one of the the our least liked best picture winners. Yeah, it's probably true. Yeah, I think until we get to the next western. Um and for our last segment, it's fun and games. And this is where I hit my co-host. You are pitted against each other this week. In a game of uh, I'm I guess I'm calling Witches Higher. Witches in which they will be asked to compare two things and try to guess which is higher.

SPEAKER_01 45:48

Oh, it's not like witches and we're hiring for like potions. Okay, I got it. Thought it was totally.

SPEAKER_06 45:53

No, we have our our quotient of witches already on this podcast. Uh it's gonna work this way. Each podcast co-host will be given five pairings. The person with the highest correct guesses wins the game.

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 46:05

Pretty straightforward. And we will start this week with Alisa.

SPEAKER_03 46:08

Okay. Oh god.

SPEAKER_06 46:09

Alisa, which of these two films has the higher audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes? Is that A, the Exorcist, or B, Psycho?

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Oh man. Wow. Two excellent films.

SPEAKER_06 46:26

Oh, Rotten Tomatoes. I have my issues with the Exorcist, but it is a good film.

SPEAKER_01 46:32

I had my immediate one, and I have a feeling I'm gonna be right.

SPEAKER_06 46:35

Actually, I have my I I hate to say this about Alvard Hitchcock. I have my issues with Psycho.

SPEAKER_05 46:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 46:41

I think it's a good film, but uh, it's not one that I return to that often.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Of his, no.

SPEAKER_06 46:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Like I think it is because he's got such a great expansive films, I think it's a little overrated.

SPEAKER_03 46:50

I return to that a lot. So I'm gonna go with Psycho.

SPEAKER_06 46:55

I mean, you're you're basically the Bates character. Um you are correct. Psycho has a 95% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes, The Exorcist has only an 87%. That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

That should be higher. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 47:10

Uh Sarah, which of these two films has the higher audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes? Uh your two films are A, Star Wars Episode 4, A New Hope, which is the first one, or B, Dune Part 2.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 47:28

Man.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Because it's audience ratings. It's audience ratings. It is not critics ratings.

SPEAKER_06 47:34

Well, uh uh, spoiler alert, we may get to the critics' ratings, but these are audience ratings.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

I mean objectively, Dune 2 is a much better film. Um, and I think most people would probably agree with that. But I I do still kind of think it's New Hope. So I'm I'm gonna go with New Hope, but I do think Dune is a better movie.

SPEAKER_06 47:59

Uh well, you're uh you are uh well, I'll say you're correct.

SPEAKER_04 48:03

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_06 48:04

Uh Dune Part 2 has 95% audience rating. Uh Star Wars episode 4 has 96 first rating rating.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

I figured it'd be so tight. I was like, I gotta go the nostalgia factor because that will buy a lot.

SPEAKER_06 48:16

And Glenn, which of these two films has the higher audience rating on the room? 2001 a space odyssey. Is that a Berdemic Shock and Terror?

SPEAKER_01 48:27

The opposite ends.

SPEAKER_06 48:28

Or B the room.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Oh man.

SPEAKER_06 48:32

It's gotta be the room.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

It has to be.

SPEAKER_06 48:34

Uh, I could tell you you are correct. Yeah. Oh, Berdemic Shock and Terror has a 28% audience. Ridiculous. And the room's gonna be high. Shockingly, the room has a 47% audience.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 48:53

Alisa, by the way, all three of you correct so far. Heck yeah. Alisa, which of these two oh sorry, uh which of these two films has the most Academy Award nominations? Oh is that A Gladiator or B Godfather Part 2? Oh, that's tough.

SPEAKER_03 49:14

This is purely a guess, but I'm turning with Godfather Part 2.

SPEAKER_06 49:18

Well, I could tell you, Godfather Part 2 has 11 Academy Award nominations. Gladiator has 12 Academy Awards.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

That is so unfair. It's right in there. Right. Sarah is. It has to be a five-point spread. You can't do that.

SPEAKER_06 49:37

Well, you didn't make the rules. Sarah, which of these two films has the most Academy Award nominations?

SPEAKER_01 49:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 49:44

Is that A, Chicago or B, La La Land?

SPEAKER_01 49:51

Oh. Oh.

SPEAKER_06 49:56

Both highly overrated musicals.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

I actually do think one is much better than the other.

SPEAKER_06 50:02

Uh Chicago? Yeah. Okay. I do think Chicago is.

SPEAKER_01 50:05

I mean it was a coin toss, but it's much better than La La Land. I'm gonna I'm gonna go Chicago.

SPEAKER_06 50:12

Okay. Well, I could tell you.

SPEAKER_01 50:13

La La Land is a lot more Oscar fan. I'm still gonna go Chicago.

SPEAKER_06 50:16

Chicago has 13 Oscar nominations. La La Land has 14.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

I was so close. Be careful, Black. Yeah. Be very careful. Because to me, Chicago is the more Oscar-y film than the great.

SPEAKER_06 50:36

I could not La La Land literally takes place in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_01 50:40

I did not like that movie.

SPEAKER_06 50:42

Yeah. Which of these two films has the most Academy Award nomination?

SPEAKER_01 50:46

It's gonna be within one.

SPEAKER_06 50:47

Is it A, Patton? Oh, or B, Cleopatra.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Oh okay.

SPEAKER_05 50:55

Okay. Oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man, oh man.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

You can do this.

SPEAKER_05 51:00

This is tough. This is tough.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

I have no clue. I wouldn't even know where to guess.

SPEAKER_05 51:05

The one I want to have more Oscar nominations is probably not the one that has more. And that would be Patton. So I'm gonna say Cleopatra.

SPEAKER_06 51:15

Okay. Well, I can tell you, Cleopatra has nine Oscar nominations. Everybody repeat after me. Patton has ten Oscar nominations. Should have gone with my gut. Well, all three of you correct on the first one. And then immediately fell apart. All three of you correct on the first round, all three of you wrong on the second round.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Because we know what the audience thinks, because we are just peons in the audience. We don't know what the academy is considering.

SPEAKER_06 51:39

Alisa, which of these two films has the highest critics score on Rotten Tomato? Is that A, Joker? Or B walk the line? Battle of the Joaquin Phoenix films.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

For critics.

SPEAKER_06 51:58

I think this is gonna be an easy one.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

I agree. You think it's an easy one? I do.

SPEAKER_06 52:02

Yeah. I mean Well, let her answer first, and then we'll see if you're gonna go.

SPEAKER_03 52:06

Well, I'll see if I'm right, but yeah.

SPEAKER_06 52:08

Imagine you and Glenn both have different things. You're both like, oh, this is so easy.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Watch that be what happens. One of us is gonna go, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

I think it's going to be, even though I don't agree, walk the line.

SPEAKER_06 52:23

Okay, so you think walk the line has a higher critic score than yes, I do. Okay. Is that how you would go? Joker.

SPEAKER_01 52:31

Same. I was like very sure it was Joker.

SPEAKER_06 52:33

Well, I can tell you, Walk the Line has an 83% critic score on Rotten Tomatoes. Joker, 68%. Oh, wow. Way to go.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

Well done. I thought it was just because it was all artsy and stuff, and critics love that.

SPEAKER_06 52:47

Yeah, they saw right through it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Lisa nails the question.

SPEAKER_06 52:53

Sarah, which of these two films has the highest critic score on Rotten Tomatoes? Okay. Is that A, The Witch? Or B, The Lighthouse? This is a Battle of the Robert Eggers films. Both weird films.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Both are super weird. One of them I do think is better.

SPEAKER_06 53:14

Basically, all of Robert Eggger films are weird.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Yeah. And one of them I do genuinely think is better, but I also don't think that's the one that did it. So I'm gonna go with Lighthouse. Okay, well. Although I do think The Witch is a better film.

SPEAKER_06 53:27

I can tell you The Lighthouse has a 90% critics rating on Rotten Tomatoes. The Witch has a 91% rating. The Witch is definitely better.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

The Witch is a significantly better film, but again, I'm like The Lighthouse was so many things that were.

SPEAKER_06 53:46

Whereas I didn't even hear about the water. The witch flew right under the radar. I was subsequently told about it. And still have nothing.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

Are they both spooky?

SPEAKER_06 53:53

The Lighthouse is just weird.

SPEAKER_01 53:55

The Witch is like proper horror. The Witch is like actually a very, very good gothic horror film. And the Lighthouse is just like, let's be super weird in the Lighthouse.

SPEAKER_06 54:03

Yeah, The Lighthouse seems vaguely like a vanity project. It is a vanity.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

And it did a lot of things creatively and technically that were very clearly meant to be like a ooh, look at how impressive and weird I'm being, which is why I thought maybe the critics would go for it.

SPEAKER_06 54:21

Uh well, they sort of did. They kind of did. Honestly, I know that far about it. Glenn, which of these two films has the highest critic score on Rotten Tomatoes? Is that A, 1917, or B, Hacksaw Ridge?

SPEAKER_01 54:35

Oh, two very good film higher critics score.

SPEAKER_05 54:39

Critic score. Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_05 54:42

I love both these movies.

SPEAKER_01 54:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:45

Um, I've seen one of these.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

You've seen 1917. I have seen 1977. You didn't see Hacksaw. Neither did I. Hacksaw is Axel Ridge.

SPEAKER_05 54:55

Hacksaw Ridges.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

That's war too, right? It is. But it's like, again, it's like a different kind of work.

SPEAKER_06 55:00

And it's not because I'm anti-Mel Gibson. Well, I mean anti-Wel Gibson as a big thing. It is crazy to think about. I quite like him as a actor.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

It is crazy to think about that. That's a Mel Gibson.

SPEAKER_06 55:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:10

Not in it, directing it.

SPEAKER_01 55:12

He directed it. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 55:13

I mean, he's he's a good director. I don't always like the things he chooses to direct.

SPEAKER_01 55:17

That one is Frenny shot for shot phenomenal. I don't know that there's much I'd criticize about Hacksaw Ridge. Honestly, they feel the same way.

SPEAKER_05 55:25

I have a feeling I have a feeling because of what they did with the artificial one-shot film that it's going to be 1917, but it should be Hacksaw Ridge. It should be. But I'd say 1917.

SPEAKER_06 55:42

Well, I can tell you, Hacksaw Ridge has an 84% audio or critics rating. 1917 has an 88% critic rating.

SPEAKER_01 55:53

Oh, nicely done. I believe they are right there.

SPEAKER_06 55:56

Current scores are Glenn and Elisa on two and Sarah on one.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Me on just one. That 1% really screwed me.

SPEAKER_06 56:02

Alisa, which of the following actors has the most acting credits on internet movie database? Now keep in mind, acting credits is everything. I mean, if they appear as themselves in some sort of I don't think not commercials, but any cameos count out. And appearing as themselves count? Correct. Okay. Okay. Which of these two have the most has the most acting credits on internet movie database? A Mike Alkane. Or B John Wayne.

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Well, John Wayne's been around longer.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

Or not really because they're not contemporaries.

SPEAKER_06 56:49

I was gonna say, given that one is currently dead, although fun fact, and I this was not where I picked these two, but fun fact the first Hollywood uh star that Michael Cain met in Hollywood was John Wayne. Oh, that's fine. Came up to him in a hotel uh lobby and complimented him on Alfie.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

He encouraged him, he was very encouraging to him.

SPEAKER_03 57:09

I am going with Michael Cain.

SPEAKER_06 57:11

Okay. I could tell you Michael Cain has 176 acting credits on internet movie database. John Wayne has 184 acting credits.

SPEAKER_01 57:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 57:27

Which of the following actors has the most acting credits on Internet Movie Database? Is that A, Emma Thompson? Or B, Olivia Coleman?

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Oh. Oh man. That is a really hard one. I am leaning toward.

SPEAKER_06 57:48

Well, you should stand upright.

SPEAKER_01 57:50

I'm leaning toward, I think, because of I because I know for a fact that she has done a ton of television. And I do not think Emma Thompson has stayed nearly as busy with TV the way that it's a good idea.

SPEAKER_06 58:03

But Emma Thompson's also a screenwriter.

SPEAKER_01 58:05

Which is also fair. Oh, I still think I'm gonna go Olivia Coleman.

SPEAKER_06 58:10

Okay, well, I can tell you, Emma Thompson has 102 acting credits. Uh Olivia Coleman has 139.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

Because she does TV, and I don't think I've ever seen Emma Thompson do TV.

SPEAKER_06 58:25

Although technically I think in Internet Movie Database, TV only counts as one acting credit.

SPEAKER_01 58:29

Oh, interesting. I think. Well, she's been in a lot of shows.

SPEAKER_06 58:32

Oh, yeah. If you're in a show, that's one acting credit. So she could be on for six seasons, but it's still only one acting credit. Uh Glenn, which of the following actors has the most acting credits on internet movie database?

SPEAKER_05 58:44

James Hong.

SPEAKER_06 58:47

Is it A, Werner Hertzog? Or B? I think you'll know who B is David Lynch.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

Oh.

SPEAKER_06 58:56

Both act both directors who occasionally took on very weird acting roles.

SPEAKER_05 59:01

Yeah, they did. They did. Oh man. And also made documentaries in which they my immediate reaction was Werner Herzog, so I'm going to stick with that.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 59:14

I can tell you uh Werner Herzog has 34 acting credits on Internet Movie Database. David Lynch has 36 credits. So I think if we're tying up the scores, tied up. Everyone has two.

SPEAKER_00 59:32

Look at us go.

SPEAKER_06 59:34

Alisa, which of the following actors has the most Academy Award nominations? By the way, this is the last round.

SPEAKER_01 59:41

Oh wow. Nicely done.

SPEAKER_06 59:43

I think, right? We did two.

SPEAKER_01 59:45

You said five, right? I think this is five.

SPEAKER_06 59:47

Yeah, yeah. Which of the following actors has the most Academy Award nominations? Is that A Steven Spielberg? Or B, Martin Scorsese. I say actors. I mean directors in this case.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:00

Spielberg and Scorsese. Scorsese.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:02

Who has the most Academy Award nominations?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:05

Oh, damn. I think I'm gonna have to go with Spielberg.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:16

Interesting. I can tell you Martin Scorsese has the most directing nominations of the two of them. However, Steven Spielberg is also a producer. Uh Martin Scorsese has uh 16 Academy Award nominations. Steven Spielberg has 24. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:32

Nicely done!

SPEAKER_06 1:00:34

Because he was nominated for a lot of producing best picture.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:38

Yeah, yeah. That's what I was thinking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:40

Sarah, which of the following actors has the most Academy Award nominations?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:45

Is that A, Colin Firth or B, Bill Nye?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:49

Oh. Oh man.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:53

I'm glad he asked you this one.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:54

I was gonna say, I genuinely.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:55

You English gentlemen. You're getting all the English actors.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:58

I am, and I genuinely I'm going to go with who I feel like will have done to me more performances worthy of such accolades, and that's gotta be Bill Nye. But I have a feeling it might be Colin, but I'm gonna go Bill Knight.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:18

Well, I can tell you only one of them has an actual Oscar.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:22

And that is Colin Firth.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Dang it.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:24

Uh that's so good. Colin Firth has two Oscar nominations. Bill Nye has one Oscar nomination. That's a crime.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

That is such a crime. I mean, and I like both of them as actors, but I genuinely like Bill Nye more. And I do feel like he has had such a broader expanse of roles, so I figured just statistically, take it up with the Academy of Motion Arts. I'm mad at the Academy now.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:51

I want to know who has more BAFTAs of those two. Uh probably Bill Nye.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

I was gonna say surely Bill in the right environment. It's gotta be Bill.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:58

And Glenn, which of the following actors has the most Academy Award nominations? Is that A, Sidney Portier, or B, Rod Steiger? And this is not at all because I was watching in the heat of the night.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:12

Excellent film.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:13

Who has more nominations? Nominators. More nominations is going to be Rod Steiger.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:19

Well, I can tell you, Rod Steiger has three Oscar nominations, which, by the way, also seems like a crime. Yeah, is that he has been in a way better in a lot of things than that's why I went with him immediately. Sydney Portier has two Oscar. Both crimes tied. Both crimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:39

So you two tied.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:40

So yes, we have a tie between Alisa and Glenn.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:44

What's the prize?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:45

Um dignity. The prize is that you get to be better than Sarah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

I gotta tell you, that's like the equivalent of getting a rip, like a participation ribbon at a soccer tournament. It's not hard to do.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:00

I'm sorry, I've lost my. And with that, we've reached the end of another episode of the Cinema Social Club. Thank you all for listening. If you'd like to write in to us, you can do so at cinemasocialpod at gmail.com. That's cinema socialpod at gmail.com. And be too sure to tune in next week when we'll be reviewing the next Best Picture Oscar winner, 1932's Grand Hotel. But until then, and on behalf of my co-hosts, it's goodbye for me. Goodbye.