What Does The Rainbow Mean?

Federal pressure is mounting in North Carolina as the U.S. Department of Education opens another Title IX investigation into school policies allowing boys in girls' private spaces, raising questions about federal funding and the future of student privacy. The conversation then shifts to California, where a controversial government program has sparked debate over the state's process for verifying whether an individual qualifies as LGBTQ in order to access certain opportunities. Finally, Joseph and Ashley examine the growing cultural tension surrounding Pride Month in professional sports, discussing the response of several San Francisco Giants players who publicly referenced Scripture while balancing team policies and their Christian convictions.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Okay. Welcome to politics for happy people. Can't do it. We are happy.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

No, no, I love it. This is a great start, Ashley. Good job. And this is politics for happy people.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

You need to stop making me laugh so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Well, that happened. So, welcome to politics for happy people. Once again, I'm Joseph Backholm. Over there is Ashley Vaughn.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Good to see you, Joseph.

SPEAKER_01 0:26

It's good to see you. This is where we have fun conversations about serious issues, and I can't decide if today's issues are serious or not. Um serious as you want to take them. The one that I'm most interested in, I think, today, I don't I can't take it seriously, but uh just to tease that, uh, how do you get certified gay in California? Uh, we are gonna talk about that. But first, we've got some local news. Title IX The Department of Education is active here in North Carolina. What's going on there?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, this is a uh great development. As everybody knows, we have been working on the problem of boys in girls' bathrooms in North Carolina. And a couple of weeks ago, the Department of Education opened an investigation into Gabaris County. And just this week, on let's see, Wednesday, we found out that now they are investigating Bunkham County schools. And we've known for a little while, Joseph, that this is another issue, um, another area that is having this issue of boys in the girls' bathrooms in North Carolina. So we've talked to girls and parents around the state in different counties, and we've known for a while that Cabaras County and Buncombe County are two areas where this is happening. Um, and it's interesting, they're happening it's happening in these two different counties kind of for different reasons. Um, in Buncombe County, they have what's called the gender support guidelines there. And so the school system is actually kind of promoting uh this gender ideology. Well, we're gonna help you transition to the opposite sex. Um, whereas in Cabaras County, it's more of a legal issue. We're not really sure if we can prevent boys from going into the girls' bathroom. At least that's my understanding of it. But in Bunkham County, um, it's actually sort of um, we're gonna support you in your transition kind of a thing. And so um we we know some families there that have been dealing with this for years now, for years. Um, these girls, Ruby, um, uh it's a her name is Anita Lace, and her daughters Ruby and June have been going to school every day. And every day it's happening that boys are going into the girls' bathrooms and they're encountering them in there, and nothing's been done about it since they were in the ninth grade.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

And let's talk about why the Title IX investigation matters and remember that, because Title IX investigations are something most people don't have any personal experience with, and what in the world is that? But uh, because the Trump administration has specifically said that boys are boys and girls are girls, and you cannot uh confuse those categories, uh, there are funds available for education that go from the federal government to local educators and local school districts, and the Trump administration has said if you do not abide by the federal policies of keeping the boys in the boys' spaces and the girls in the girls' spaces, that could cost you your federal funds. And so ultimately, when we say there's a Title IX investigation into these local school districts, the question is will those districts lose federal funding for education if the federal government determines that they are not biding by abiding by these policies. So that's really the thing that concern that's concerning to the locals that would maybe be an incentive uh to uh uh comply with what we would all consider to be common sense anyway. Um, but it does require a finding of the federal government, and and that is what this signals is that the federal government is aware of the issue. They're gonna look in to see what these local counties are doing, and the locals would be concerned about the loss of funds. And that, of course, in education, for better or worse, is always a huge motivator, money. So that's why this really is a big deal, and it and it could lead to a change of behavior. Um, but of course, just on the merits of the issue, we don't want the boys and the girls' spaces, and it's good that people who agree with us are investigating it because they can do something about it.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And so, even just zooming out, there are other, you know, governing authorities that can do something about this. Um, evidently the school board's not willing to do anything in either of these counties, but the General Assembly can pass a law and require boys to stay out of the girls' bathrooms. And we do hope that we'll do that. But it's very interesting how this issue is covering all levels of government, right? You've got the school boards involved, you've got um the state government, and now you even have the Trump administration coming and saying, you know, we have a stake in this too, and we we want to protect our girls. And it's as you said, um Trump Trump did say on day one that not only we're going to hold to biological truth, men or men and women are women, but he also had in that executive order, uh, the name of it's escaping me right now. I don't have it right in front of me, but something about uh gender I di uh combating gender ideology extremism or something like that. Um, but it it's also said in there specifically private spaces for women would be protected. And so what is happening in Buncombe County, in Canberras County, in other counties in North Carolina, we've heard of it in in Wake County and New Hanover County as well. The these are violations of uh uh federal law.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

That's right. And so they they are gonna continue to investigate this and um the the facts as we understand them are actually pretty clear. Um, but we just takes time for the process to happen and and see what the federal government does. Uh and of course, the underlying question, I'm gonna segue here to our next story, um, because the the question in the gender debate is is it even possible to know what a boy and a girl is? And and how on earth can we know? And the schools are confused about these things, and so we'll let the boys go into the girl spaces because they might actually be girls. Well, that confusion, though it it occurs on the left for gender. Apparently, in the state of California, they are very sure that we can know confidently whether someone is gay or not. And they have established a series of criteria where they're not using this term, but basically they are certifying that you are in fact gay, Ashley. I need to know more about Well, and I was hoping you'd ask, of course. Explain it to me, Judge. We're gonna talk about this for a moment because I mean in the world of silly stories, this might be my favorite. So, where does this come from? Background is, of course, very, very uh necessary. Because in the state of California, they have a public California Public Utilities, which regulates privately owned utility companies. More than $43 billion just in 2024 went to contractors in their public utilities. So that's fuel suppliers, surveyors, engineers, and others. That they deliver water, gas, electricity, right? Utilities to California's 39 million residents. Now, along the way, because California is California, they have required these regulating utilities to um buy goods and services from initially in the 80s, it was women-owned and minority-owned companies. Over time, that has expanded their supplier diversity program, is what they call it in California. They have a supplier diversity program. And uh they have expanded that so it includes LGBT-owned businesses as well. So annually, there's $43 billion in this pot, at least that was in 2024, going to a variety of businesses for related to public utilities. And the state of California has specifically said a bunch of this has to go to LGBT-owned businesses. So, surprising to no one, you have created an incentive to be LGBT ETC, etc., right? Because there's all this money available to you if you are. But of course, that creates this additional problem for the state of California, recognizing that they have created a financial incentive for people to identify as gay, because there's lots of money in being gay in California, it seems these days, they have to find a way to prove that you are gay. And before I go through California's ways to prove and certify that you are gay, Ashley, I'm just gonna open the floor to you.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

If you had to get evidence of someone's LGBT identity, how would you ask them to prove this?

SPEAKER_02 9:39

How would I ask someone to prove that they are?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

We will just, you know, clarify that.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

It seems like a rude thing to do.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Doesn't it though? It seems a little rude. Well, and isn't that kind of like, isn't that supposed to be what they're not about? You know, you don't have to prove it. Is it rude? Yeah, I mean, because now how would you prove somebody is gay?

SPEAKER_02 10:09

I would think it would be a long-term commitment to being with someone of the opposite sex, okay, and organizing your life around that reality. Well, but yeah, how do you how yeah, how do you prove that? I mean, what amount of time, you know, that you've been in an opposite or sorry, a same-sex relationship would does it. Well, and here's the other thing. Part of the LGBTQ identity schema is that you can you can be whatever you want to do. It's fluid, it's constantly changing. And you know, not only am I, you know, into all sorts of different people, not just it, you know, regardless of their gender, it's I'm I'm interested in souls, you know, that's what some of these people say. Well, it's the soul that I'm interested in. The gender doesn't matter, and that's sort of goes along with the whole I can be a different gender every single day, or no gender. I mean, so it's like, how do you establish anything in that world?

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And and and there you just raise the point that you know I made in relation to the to the last to the last story we were covering on gender, right? In in progressive world where feelings determine reality, sex and sex is a fluid category, but sexual orientation is a fixed category. That's a thing. And and that's the world they want us to live in, where you can be any gender you want, but if you're gay, you're gay, you're born that way, and it never changes, right? And neither of those, I mean, both of those are demonstrably false. Everybody has individual experiences that are that are you unique, but it is beyond dispute that sex is not something that changes, and sexual orientation and sexual desire and sexual impulses do change. And that's just that's the reality. But they want us to live in a world where gender can change, sex can change, and where your sexual orientation never does. And that's not that's and and what we're talking about now is the absurdity of what happens when that's the premise, because now you have to prove you're gay.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah. Well, that's not entirely true though, because one of the identities that you can choose is pansexual. Like you're interested in anyone. Again, it's not the it's the soul that you're attracted to, the body doesn't matter, or something like that. And so by this definition, though, and the reason I'm going back to that is the only if you're California, the only situation that you're not okay with is a man and a woman who are attracted to each other and are not open to other situations. Well, no, they're not gonna give you money. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

It's you're not you're not privileged in anything.

SPEAKER_02 12:59

That's what I mean by they're not okay with, they're not certifying in this schema.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

Well we have now demonstrated that you don't know how to prove somebody's gay necessarily.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

I do not.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

But the state of California has given it the old college try. And we're gonna read through this a little bit um to to help under people understand. And perhaps some of our some of our audiences in California and wanting to get a piece of that sweet, sweet $43 billion public utility money that is available, especially if you are LGBT of some kind. Here's what they here's a list of the things. And and it does say or it's you it's not uh you don't have to quite meet all of these criteria. But a copy of a valid municipal or state license certificate of marriage, civil unions, or domestic partnership. But of course, that would have to be somebody of the same gender. But of course, we're kind of anti-marriage, so you don't have to formalize it, right? Um, we we would not want to impose that on somebody. So proof of domestic partnership, health insurance utilization, a copy of a petition for same-sex partner hospital visitation or rights, evidence of completed or attempted parenting or family building efforts with same-sex partners, including surrogacy, adoption, or in vitro fertilization procedures. So you can certify that you are gay by proving that you had IVF, I guess, with somebody of the same partner, a joint living arrangement paperwork naming the same-sex partner, and reference to same-sex partner status must be made in the document. Um, a letter from the NCL NGLCC affiliate chamber leader attesting to LGBT status of the business owner. That's power.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

So I I don't remember I can write you an official letter.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

I guarantee you there's a certifying affiliate chapter. That was probably defined somewhere, and I'm missing that. But similar to that, you can get three letters of reference from personal contacts on their company letterhead or stationary who have known owner for over one year and can voucher attest to LGBT status. So if you have enough people, but they have to have company letterhead or stationary. But Clob can come up with some company letterheader stationary for you. But so three friends who say you're gay is will work.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Or you have three friends or one letter from a recognized LGBT organization attesting to the LGB status. So three friends or one org. Uh, you can have a physician carry letter evidencing gender reassignment or related gender procedures. Um there is a physician or attorney letter establishing. So your lawyer can write a yes, he's really gay letter for you. I don't know why lawyers have a special dispensation for that, or why letter lawyers would even know. And you could also get a certificate, award, or recognition of owners outstanding members of LGBT community. So if you were awarded as like gay of the day or something, you can take that to the state of California and they will accept that as proof that you are gay enough and therefore you can get some money. That worked for you, Ashley? What do you think of this list?

SPEAKER_02 16:33

I mean, you only have to do one of these. Is that what it is?

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, it it does say or after every part of the list.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

I mean, this is this is obviously this is ridiculous.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Every frat guy in a California university can get three friends to sign a letter on some letterhead they made saying, hey, my buddy is definitely gay.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

I just think the whole exercise is insanely, insanely silly, especially, and just to make a connection to some other issues. California has had some voting issues lately, and they are famous for not being willing to require identification to prove who you are when you fill out a ballot. So you don't have to prove identity when you vote, you do have to prove gayness when you apply for public utility contracts. Is that inconsistent?

SPEAKER_02 17:36

That's definitely inconsistent. Is this a recent like change? Because that to me, that suggests that there's been some sort of like, you know, gay fraud or something. People are trying to get it.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

100% there has been gay fraud. 100%. Well, and and and just to uh show you how this applies to a whole bunch of other because we're we're talking about like the gay business context, right? But do you know how many general contractors now have put their business in their wife's name? Because now in female owned business.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

A woman-owned business, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

Because there's all these special contracts available to women-owned businesses. So all the dudes said, Hey, honey, congratulations, you're the CEO now. That's all the time. Because you're you're creating obvious incentives to do so. Is she swinging a hammer more than she was a month ago? No, she's just the CEO now on paperwork, which means they're now eligible to apply for contracts that they weren't otherwise eligible for.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

Well, and I to me, that's the most frustrating part about this story is our government incentivizing, you know, people taking LGBTQ identities. I mean, I I think our I think, you know, our government should incentivize things that are good and that promote people's flourishing and and supporting families and um and healthy families where there's a mom and a dad and children are biologically possible. Um, that's what the child tax credit does, right? It's it it rewards families who are are having more kids, which is a good thing. We want that. Um, but this is sort of doing the opposite. It's incentivizing behavior that is not going to lead to thriving in our society. And I think that's, I mean, aside from the hypocrisy and the, oh, it's so easy to meet these criteria and just say you're gay and get the money, I think that's what is more problematic for me.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

I just can't get over the silliness of caring at all, whether it's woman-owned or LGBT owned. Like the the state of California or the government anywhere should have no interest in the LGBT status or not of the guy driving the fuel truck. It's just it's the dumbest thing in the world. And if you're gonna make contracts, you should with with private companies to perform functions that are of a benefit to the public that the state needs to have performed, and this is all stuff that needs to happen. Are you capable of doing the job well? Are you able to do it at a in an efficient way that's gonna make us good stewards of the taxpayers' resources?

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Right. We don't need we don't need to know what happens in the bedroom to know if you can do your job. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 20:35

It's just the dumbest question in the world. And now that I mean, who knows how many hundreds of man hours, thousands of man hours the state of California put into creating this silly list so that frat boys can go get letterheads from their buddies to prove that they're gay so they can be eligible for all this money. It's just, it's just proof of how silly the world gets when you care about the wrong things. Like the entire exercise should be discarded. Are you good at it? Can you do it well? Can you do it efficiently? Let's move on. Another point I want to make on this is, you know, the the narrative from the LGBT world uh for so long is we are super super duper oppressed. And, you know, we're victims, second-class citizenship, all of those things. But it's hard to convince me that you are super duper oppressed if the state of California is in a position of having to confirm whether somebody actually has the status because of all the privileges that are now associated with it. If it was really such a social hardship, you wouldn't have people lying to get the identity, which is clearly the problem that they're trying to address here. Uh so it's you know, again, the whole exercise is silly. But I think it's exposing uh some other inconsistencies and that just are worth being aware of. Related to this though, also from the state of California, Ashley, um you're a big baseball fan, I know, right? Huge. Huge.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

We've talked about this before.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

I think that's sarcasm.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

That's sarcasm. Yes. For those completely unaware, completely unaware. You're not a entire sports world. Yes. Okay. But along the lines with certifying gay, we are in Pride Month. And one of the unfortunate things that happens in the sports world during Pride Month is a handful of teens, fewer now than in years past, will uh modify their logo to be some kind of rainbow themed. And to no one's surprise, this happened in San Francisco with the San Francisco Giants because it's San Francisco. And though, you know, like the Texas Rangers have never done this. There have been a number they've never had a Pride Night. I think they are the actually the only team in Major League Baseball that has never had a Pride Night.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

The Texas Rangers. Um, but a number used to and don't anymore, but there are still some cities, Seattle, San Francisco, you know, the the usual association.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Have you been to a Pride Night sporting event before? Um like what happens? Like what do they do to make it?

SPEAKER_01 23:31

That's a fair question. It really is branding. I mean, I wonder if I wonder if going to a going to the Giants game on Pride Night would qualify as certified gay for the purposes of state. Would they accept that? I'm just you could just have a selfie from the Giants Pride game.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

I'm just wondering, like, it's not like everyone who goes that night is gay, right? No, it's allyship. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

It's allyship, of course.

SPEAKER_02 23:57

No, I mean so you wouldn't go on on Pride Night.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

I actually think I would not go. I think that is true. No, I I think But what if you didn't know? If I didn't know that that would be I mean, if I randomly showed up on uh Pride Night. I have like randomly been at Pride events.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

Like I've been in cities and I didn't know it was like Pride Festival Day, and it was, and you know, they're interesting cultural experiences. Um yeah, I don't know. I I would I leave a game. I I don't know that I have that conviction.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

I'm just wondering like what happens at a Pride sporting event. Like are they talking about it the whole time?

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Like no, I think I think the thing that happens is they they, you know, they do change their logo in solidarity, yeah, and then they'll throw some stuff up on the Jumbotron that is basically like, yay, gay, we're with you. You know, and but I don't it's not a ton more than that. You know, they have these for like they have like first responders night and teacher night and things like that, yeah, right? So that the the I mean baseball teams do versions of this in different ways where they like celebrate members of the community. And there are, I mean, some of these same places will have like faith community night and church groups who will come, right? And so from the from the baseball team's perspective, in many ways, they're just they're just including people.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

That's probably how they accustomed, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Yeah, they want people to come to their games and enjoy their product and all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

But okay, but we wanted to talk about a different aspect, not just that they had a pride night.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

Well, no, correct, because it's the follow-up, it's the response to this. Because it create Pride Knight creates a dilemma for the baseball players because everybody knows what Pride Kn presents. And it's this whole movement of the sexual revolution. And of course, for some people that's oh, it's just inclusive inclusivity and love. And then for those who have a Christian worldview, they see it as something totally different. And that's what happened during this game, where three Giants baseball players, Landon, Roop, JT, Brewbaker, and Ryan Walker, wrote a reference, a Bible reference, on their hat next to their pride-themed logo. Said Genesis 9, 12 through 16, which is of course the verse that describes God's covenant with Noah, with all living creatures, and that's the sign of the rainbow. So that's their way of saying this is what the rainbow means to me. Ashley. Good response or bad response from the players.

SPEAKER_02 26:36

I like it. I think it's a good response. I think it's hard. I mean, they're in a tough spot because while, you know, as Christians, we believe that everyone is made in God's image and has dignity, no matter, you know, whether you have an LGBTQ identity that you are claiming or not. Um, and and these people, they are important and and they they do have value. And yet we can't say that something that God says is sin is not sin. And so, and that's essentially what they're being asked to do. And so, yeah, you said it right when you said they're in a dilemma. Um, they can't celebrate this. Um, and so they I I think, you know, would I would I do it this way? I I don't know what I would do, but I understand what they're trying to do in that they're trying to say, hey, this rainbow is actually a symbol that God gave us, a promise of of hope. And um it has it has a meaning. Um, and and the meaning that we see as Christians it has a real meaning. It has a real meaning, yes. And the and the meaning that that we know to be true as Christians is is very different than the meaning that they are using it for.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Something I learned actually after the fact is apparently they had an option not to wear that version of the logo. And I guess there was one player who just wore the normal Giants logo instead of the rainbow one.

SPEAKER_02 28:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

And that was his way of saying, I'm not gonna participate in this.

SPEAKER_02 28:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

Is one of those better than the other? Is the rainbow one with the Bible reference better than just saying, hey, I'm not gonna wear that?

SPEAKER_02 28:26

I wouldn't say one's better than the other. I would say, as a believer, as a Christian, we should not celebrate things that that God's, you know, says are wrong and that he is against. So I don't think that's a good option, but I think wearing the regular logo or the Bible verse, putting the Bible verse on there, those are both, in my mind, fine options. I think it'd be legalistic to say one was preferable to the other. I think that's people should follow, you know, their conscience when it comes to things like this.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

I think if I were in that situation, I would just wear the normal logo, is is how I think I would handle that.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

What and why?

SPEAKER_01 29:07

Um it's a good question, why?

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Um It's definitely the less provocative option.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

Yeah, it maybe it's the least provocative. Um and and maybe that's the reason why. It's like I'm not trying to make a stink, I'm not trying to make a stink. I just am not going to participate.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

I'm not gonna let you bully me for sure. And and and I I've heard the argument that oh, they should just participate and and show that they're you know kind and loving and all those things. I absolutely have a conviction that you cannot participate.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Well, that's we would say that's not kind participating is not kind and loving if we believe that you're going down a path that is not gonna lead to flourishing, that that God says is wrong, if we participate and celebrate, you know, we're participating in a lie and we're telling you something that we actually don't believe to be true. So that's and that's not a loving thing to do. Um, and but you're right when you say these players are being bullied. Another part of this story is that the MLB's chief communications officer, uh Pat Courtney, confirmed the league issued a warning to the players because of the writing on their caps that it violated the the uniform policy. Um and some it's funny, I saw one person on X or something say, oh, the MLB warned them, scary. But it like it actually is scary. If this is the way, if this is your career, if this is the way that you make money, if this is something that you've been training for and working up to your entire life, um, it it that actually is scary. And that's why this is so wrong. You should not be uh financially um threatened threatened, yeah, threatening people with their careers and their livelihood and and what they hold dear into doing or saying something that violates their conscience.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

A little context that I think matters from from MLB's perspective is that uh apparently they had specifically acknowledged that you have the choice not to wear the logo. And they say what they're objecting to is writing on the hats at all. Because we can on, I mean, I in, you know, set this issue aside for a moment. I can understand why the league would not want players writing their own personal messages all over their hat, because then you just get like personal endorsement deals and you just start changing the uniform because you either want to make a personal statement or a business statement, endorsement statement, or a political statement, or whatever, and they don't want that all over the hats, right? Yeah. So I get that when they're saying so. If if the alternative was wear the normal logo or wear the this alternative logo, I would certainly go with the other logo. They chose to kind of wear the modified logo, but frame it in a biblical way, right? And so the Major League Baseball would say it's not, we're not criticizing your biblical position. We don't care, we just can't have you modifying and personalizing your hats in the games. And I'm a little bit sympathetic to that.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Yeah, well, and maybe that's why you would choose the just wearing the regular logo part, because then you're not violating another of your employer's policies. Correct. That makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 32:31

I think we want to make sure that we are not playing the victim when uh unnecessarily, and everybody across the political spectrum and everybody likes to be a victim, it seems these days, that seems to give us social currency, and we all all want to be a victim of the other side. And and I've certainly seen that in relation to this story. But the the the point that I I think we really wanna, I want to make sure people understand about this is is what is the significance of this requirement that employees have to wear this logo that communicates this particular message. And the best way I know to analogize this, and I've talked to some folks who don't agree with me on on the merits of this issue at all, but I'd say, what if your employer required you to go to work wearing a Jesus saves t-shirt? How would you feel about that? And I think that's kind of analogous to this, because Jesus saves is an unambiguously Christian message that has all sorts of cultural and spiritual significance about, you know, Jesus being Lord of the universe, we being sinners, and we need to repent, Jesus saves, Jesus is the answer to the world's problems. In the same way, the pride logo messaging movement communicates an equally religious, in my view, um, and personal statement that nobody should be compelled to signal agreement with. And I think that's the problem that uh uh all pride nights present is that you are giving, you are pressuring people to communicate something implicitly that is very divisive. So if you don't want somebody to force you to say Jesus saves, you should not force them to say, you know, the rainbow flag sexual revolution saves, which is I think kind of the message.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Yeah. Well, this is part of the beauty of being American. You people can people can live out their own convictions and they should be free to, um, so long as you're abiding by the law. And um, and I think that it's it becomes a problem when government or corporations or institutions uh take stances that um really aren't acknowledging the reality that people feel very differently and very passionately um about human sexuality, honestly. Uh and so yeah, it's an ongoing, it is an ongoing cultural conversation and fallout from really the Obergefeld decision, which was a long time coming, uh, as we've had sort of this sexual revolution for the last 50, 60 years, and and we're at a place where it really is so forefront in people's minds. As you said, it's almost religious. This um I think it's entirely religious. This yes, this LGBTQ identity and and community and way of seeing the world, and and it is a clash with the Christian worldview as we look at scripture and we take it seriously and we apply it to all areas of our lives, including sexuality. That is something that we cannot endorse because God has said that it is against his plan. And so, you know, therein lies the rub. We are completely at odds about that, and it's it's tough to resolve when you're on complete opposite sides of the spectrum.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

I will also say though, uh, that you know, though I said I might have taken um, you know, the path of least resistance, if that's the right way to say that, like just don't wear the logo. I'm really grateful that my children and young people see people uh publicly resisting the sexual revolution and the rainbow mafia, such as they present themselves. And and I'm glad, you know, it's it's there there's it's one thing to just be quiet, but it's another thing to actually go out of your way to communicate the fact that that does not represent me. That's that is not me. And I I think it's actually very important that we take moments when we can to not just be quiet, but to actually uh give voice to the opposition because other need other people need to see that, right? Both fear and courage are contagious. And when young young people see people they respect, being courageous, especially in this context, that gives them permission to also be courageous because they know they're not alone. And so, um, in that respect, I'm actually very grateful that they took this rainbow and they referenced it back to hey, God is the one who made the rainbow. Here's why he made the rainbow. They have stolen and counterfeited the rainbow for for bad purposes. And I just want to make sure the world understands I know that, and I want you to know that as well. I think it's good for American culture and for the church and for young people to see people making that statement. So uh I'm glad they did it.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 38:12

I think we've covered this one for today, friends. Um, certified gay. Now you know in California, um, but if you play baseball, um, there's a way to prove you're not certified gay, and that's what the Giants players have apparently done. Thanks for joining us today. So glad to have you uh with us. Reminder new episodes every Tuesday and Friday. Give us a review where you have found us. If you can, helps us make new friends. We really appreciate it. We'll see you next time here on politics for happy people.