Politics For Happy People
A podcast about politics for happy people!
Politics For Happy People
Men in the WNBA? Former trans shares thoughts
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Joseph Backholm sits down with Walt Heyer, who shares his personal story of undergoing gender reassignment surgery, living as a woman for eight years, and eventually returning to living as a man. Heyer explains why he believes trauma and adverse childhood experiences are often overlooked in conversations about gender identity and challenges the language surrounding transition and detransition. The conversation also examines social transitioning in schools, parental involvement, and the broader cultural debate over gender. Finally, they turn to the WNBA and the recent declarations by former NBA players for the WNBA draft, discussing what the controversy could mean for the debate over biological sex and women’s sports.
Welcome to Politics for Happy People, where we have fun conversations about serious issues. I'm Joseph Backholm. Your regular listener, you'll notice something different about today's episode, and that is that I'm hosting Solo. Ashley Vaughan has been with me from the beginning, but she is stepping back from her regular co-host responsibilities to free up some time for some other duties she has as our communications director. You will undoubtedly see her here again, just not quite as frequently. But she remains on the team and an incredible part of it at that. So moving forward, I will do my best to continue leading fun conversations about serious issues, but I'll be doing it with a range of guests from North Carolina and around the country instead. To that end, my guest today has one of the most remarkable stories you'll ever hear. Walt Heyer was a husband, a father, and a corporate executive who, at 42, underwent gender reassignment surgery and lived for eight years as a woman named Laura. Then, through a loving church and an encounter with Jesus, he detransitioned more than 30 years ago now, and he spent the decades since writing books, testifying before lawmakers, and helping other people find their way back. Nobody has been sounding this alarm longer than Walt. And he joins me today to help us all process the many twists and turns of the gender revolution as we find them this week here in America. Walt, welcome to Politics for Happy People.
SPEAKER_00Love being on with you, Joseph. Always do. We've been connecting over the years, so this is truly an honor and a thrill for me. So let's just dig in and tell some truths.
SPEAKER_01We're going to. It's it's great to see you again. And you know, you and I have spoken before. I know a bit of your story, but for those who might be encountering it for the first time, uh, give us the brief kind of bio and some of the details that I might have left out there in your description.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, uh, grandmother started cross-dressing me when I was four years old. When my and the brief story is that when my dad found out then he started physically abusing me uh because I was cross-dressing, and then his adopted brother, uh, because I was cross-dressing, started sexually molesting me. And so by the time I was 10 years old, I was a wee bit confused, as you might imagine. And so um I started identifying uh as Crystal West when I was about 13 years old, and so uh by the it that was in the early 50s, so there wasn't um there weren't many people out there talking about this, and so I kind of pulled back because uh when I came out to talk about it, people sort of um reacted in a very negative way because it was just too too early in the 50s. But uh I was motivated by Christine Jorgensen, who came out uh in the 1950s as being the first one who had surgically altered their body to identify as in those days, it was called transsexual, they didn't have transgenders. And you know, we can talk about that a little later. I mean, the language has changed over the years, and men who cross-dressed and identified as women were actually originally called transvestites, and so uh they've they've continued to manipulate the language, and that's something we I want to get into a little bit later.
SPEAKER_01Well, actually, I'm gonna I'm I'm gonna ask you to get into that right now because it leads into a bunch of other things. But yeah, why do you think the the language has changed from transvestite to transsexual? And I don't even know if that's the correct sequence, but we used to use terms like transvestite and transsexual, and now it's transgender. What's the significance of that in your mind?
SPEAKER_00The significance is that they have been pounding this language to make you believe, you and me believe, that hormones and surgery can actually transition somebody into from a man to a woman. The language is a lie. So far in all of world history, nobody has ever changed their gender. The only thing they've ever changed, Joseph, is their persona. And so by convincing us that they've changed their gender, then they convinced you that part of that process includes hormones and a surgical procedure. That's also a lie. And thank you, Jesus, for Judge Clarence Thomas, who came out uh last month and said the transgender language is a lie. And I quickly turned to my wife and I said, He's been reading my stuff. Because the truth, here's the truth that nobody wants to deal with, and that is there is no such thing as a as an actual transgender. It's just you can identify as a transgender, you can never become one. You can identify as someone who transitioned, but you can never transition. You can identify as a detransitioner, but you're never going to detransition. I am not a detransitioner. Uh, I in my website that I've had up for over 20 years, the only thing it says on there is that we help you get your life back. There's no such thing as detransition. That language is used by the advocates to make you believe that they were successful using hormones and surgery and changing somebody. So if uh we we really have bought into the language and it's really affected our ability to have inroads in changing the dialogue.
SPEAKER_01I agree with you that so much of this is about language. If detransition is not the right uh term to refer to your experience, because the transition never happened in the first place, and so we don't want to grant the premise, and I think that's what you're saying. Exactly. How do you think it should be described?
SPEAKER_00Getting your life back. It's pretty simple. Um, you know, that there this this this whole thing has been built on a total fraud. Um and and as such, and and they and keep in mind this is a $400 billion business that's fraudulent. They've got insurance companies paying for it, they've got unions, you know, supporting it, they've got governments supporting it, and none of it is correct. It's not factually correct. And I've worked, as you well know, with probably around 4,000 people over the last over 20 years. And when you have an opportunity to meet with somebody who's has regrettable outcomes from doing this, then they begin to open up and you find out what's really the underlying causes. And you find out that that they had um bipolar disorder or BTSD or dissociative disorder or um some other issue, underlying issue. I mean, Joseph, one of the cases I had was that this guy called me, 73 years old, and he'd been, quote, identifying as a female for 60 years, from the time he was 13. And and I just asked him in an email, I said, Well, just tell me what happened when you were 13 years old. What was your life at that time like? And he wrote back and he said, Well, my mom was a raging alcoholic and would get a butcher knife about three times a week, run around the house trying to murder my dad. And I said, Well, you know, I'm not the most brilliant person on earth, but that does sound like trauma to me. You need a trauma therapist, not a gender therapist. He went to a trauma therapist and in one session with rapid eye movement, after 60 years of identifying as a female, no longer was identifying as a female.
SPEAKER_01That's incredible.
SPEAKER_00It happens, you know, the whole thing here's the big word that I use all the time. I want everybody to kind of understand this this cuts through all of the nonsense. I ask everybody this simple question: tell me what caused you to not like who you are. Powerful. And nobody's ever asked them that before. And I only came to that conclusion because I wish somebody would have done that with me. And then when you you start to get them to open up and tell you about the issues they had, like myself, grandma cross-dressed me, dad beat me, uncle sexually masked me. That is not gender dysphoria. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's childhood abuse, which is known as adverse childhood experiences. And adverse childhood experience has a whole different modality for treatment. It isn't hormones and surgery, but that's what they do anyway.
SPEAKER_01So, in your mind, the key question that people need to ask when they're confronted with this issue or this identity crisis is tell me what happened that caused you to not like who you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and then to explore that, like I did with the individual. Tell me what your life was like when you were having this difficulty. And all of a sudden, all these little things start opening up. You know, mom uh was you know sick and dying in the living room, and and she was immobile, and and you know, all kinds of people coming into the house, and and another kid had uh had cancer and had one of his legs cut off, and his life was never the same. I had people actually tell me I was the only boy among seven girls, and the only way I could get attention was to identify as a woman. Uh, this is not gender dysphoria, and and I have I can say this so specifically, with such confidence, after talking with the people, if I can talk to them and spend time with them, we find out that it was never about gender dysphoria. And again, thank you for Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas. He said gender dysphoria is an opinion, not a diagnosis. He's right. That's what I've been saying. And when I work with somebody, I always tell them you're not a transgender, you've never transitioned, you don't have gender dysphoria. Let's figure out what happened. And and you cut through all the nonsense. The whole thing, if we can finally get to the point where we as people who are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, then we can stand up on the ground and say, you know, there are 30 trillion cells in your body with your sex marker on them. The gender clinics don't change one of them. So there's no transition. And so if we can understand that the proper terminology is you changed your persona, which you know movie actors do all the time in movies. And so we're we're talking about something that's a persona and not somebody who actually changed genders. And so um this is what's troubled me for so long is why we continue to use the language because we are actually propping up the idea that somebody actually changed, which is a lie.
SPEAKER_01Well, I was very recently at a conference and uh my dad came up to me as a law enforcement officer, I think a career law enforcement officer and told me about his 20, 21-year-old son who is now claiming to be a woman and the house and is kind of going through the whole you know routine it seems of rejecting your parents and having a community of people telling you that your family hates you if they don't affirm you a new identity and all of those things. And that question that you asked is you know, tell me what happened that may cause you to not like yourself. Is that um, you know, does that work for parents? I mean, if if if you are a parent or a grandparent whose child or grandchild has come to you and is claiming this new identity, is that the right question for them to ask?
SPEAKER_00Well, for them, no, I actually there's another group of questions I use for parents, grandparents, people who are in the household, it they often know what happened. And so I asked them, talk to me about that child's uh life. You know, was there a divorce? Did somebody die? Did you have somebody in the household that was an alcoholic? Go through that process. And when you initially start working with that family member, they start to remember, oh yeah, well, I remember, like in one case, you know, the dad was a merchant seaman, he was never there because he was off on a ship going around the world most of his life. And so mom became the caretaker and she just bonded with him and he she he connected with her. And I and I can't, there are so many different examples of this, like, you know, a father um who died. I had a girl I start identifying as a father, as uh she started identifying as a man because her father died. And if you dig into that, and people don't talk about this very much, but uh in in her world at 12 years old, when dad died in a plane crash, she took on her dad's identity. Why? To keep her dad alive. It's not gender dysphoria. Yeah. So I think we're we we've bought into this, uh, and I hear so many people that I respect and and and really trust using all these terminologies that are false. You know, well, they had gender dysphoria, and I stand up and go, no, they didn't. You sit down and talk to them, you'll find out that it was something else. They and and Joseph, here's a big one. You can look up generalized dysphoria. You see, they've got dysphoria. I'm not discounting dysphoria, they've got it. It's just not about their gender. And when we start to have these serious conversations, we start to affect it. So parents uh of children, I most recently I had uh parents, very wealthy parents in Virginia, sent their 15-year-old boy off to a boys' school, $68,000 a semester for school, which was a boarding school. Obviously, the man is well off. Sent the boy to boarding school. In that boarding school, they allow boys to have access to female hormones. It's all boys' school. Oh my. But they allow them to have access to female hormones and act out uh a female identity at school. That's okay with them because it's uh it's an LGBT-funded group, right? And this is a very press, one of the top uh boys' schools in the United States is funded by the LGBT and supported by that. And so now the the parent contacted me uh when he's 20 years old, about three weeks ago, contacted me, and said, My son's gonna have surgery next Monday, contacted me on Monday, he said next Monday, gonna have surgery to start identifying as a female. Can you stop him? What? I can I can tell you, I want everybody to hear this. Don't contact me seven days before somebody's scheduled for surgery and expect me to stop him.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Not gonna happen. So, but here's the here's the issue. That child, I believe if I spent time with him from the experience I've had in talking with other kids, is that he became, like other kids, so depressed that their parents would not raise them. The kids are sending them off for somebody else to raise them. They're rich, they got big house, they got big income. Like, I'm not gonna raise my kid, I'll let somebody else do it. And so the kid's gone. And and I I know, you know, that's that's separation anxiety. I can list off all the things, you know, anger that goes along with that. Why why are my parents unwilling to raise me? Don't they like me?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so you start to look at these things and and look at them from uh put on a different pair of glasses and look at this through the lens of what happened and start exploring what happened, and and all of a sudden there's all these other things that come up. Now, unfortunately, because of this tragic thing with their this child, it looks like the marriage is actually going to fall apart. Because the the wife is now blaming the husband for sending the kid off, and it's your fault.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I yeah, you can imagine how there is fallout from from something like that. And in Wall, as I listen to you describe this, and and you haven't used the term yet in this conversation, but you've told me before you refer to these situations as aces, adverse childhood experiences that that in in your judgment are always the root cause of these of these identity crises. When you describe it this way, being you know uh abandoned by your children or by your parents, the perception of that, um death, abuse of various kinds, right? None of that sounds like bigotry when you speak. You have not judged anyone, you haven't said you haven't said anything harsh about someone, and there's a lot about it that just kind of it rings as true if you're you know if you're not like immersed in the politics of this issue, as frankly we all are at this point. But I think if we try to uh separate ourselves from that, the situation that you're describing as the as the common um precursor to this kind of identity, that actually makes some sense. But when you have these conversations and when people try to identify this as perhaps the root cause and it's not a real identity, that's met with tremendous opposition. And and and we're familiar with that. Why do you think that is that that adults can't hear you describe the pattern that you've identified over literally decades and say, yeah, that is probably something we should look into?
SPEAKER_00Well, the the biggest reason I believe is because they see themselves as as a failure in quickly identifying. Because if and that that's why I've written the books that I've written, which nobody reads. I it that's interesting. I've got some of the I I'm this is probably a little bold of me to say, but the books that I've written that are out there are really great books, but I don't nobody reads them. But the people that do read them love them. They're five-star reviews. So I think it's it it's it's just gets down to they don't want to be at fault for this happening. But I and there's two other things. So I I want you to know that it isn't just the trauma, but we also have this thing that really happened in 2020 with kids going on the internet and starting uh, you know, these games that they were playing where you could identify as a female in a game. And I've actually had kids who played a female who's a guy played a female in a game and actually took that female identity and started presenting it in public. And I've had teachers in California schools when I've spoken at conferences and had interaction. A teacher told me, he said, I've had kids in our school come up to me and say, I am afraid, you may not have ever heard this before, I am afraid. The kids are saying, I'm afraid to not identify as a transgender or I will be bullied. That's crazy. So we're we're we've this whole thing has been created out of total nonsense. And and so, you know, we're talking about uh we wanted to talk about the WNBA and I do, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I'm gonna ask you one other question before we get there, just kind of about your own story because it's relevant. And then I want to get into kind of the current news. Yeah. You mentioned earlier that you started identifying, I think you said as Crystal West at the age of 13. Yeah. Did I remember that?
SPEAKER_00You got you got it right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. A lot of the conversation right now that we're having in North Carolina and and other places is about the issue of social transitioning at school and the degree to which parents should know or not know. Right now, the the Parents' Bill of Rights, which was passed a couple years ago, requires parents to be notified, but they don't have to consent to a school socially transitioning a child. And this social transition process is described as something somewhat benign, easily reversed, not a big deal. You know, let your 14-year-old, 13-year-old just kind of explore their, you know, who they are, and if they decide they don't want it forever, then then that's fine. There's no harm, no foul. How do you think parents and schools should think about this idea of adolescent social transitioning before they did something surgical?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, social transitioning should never, ever, under any circumstance, be allowed, period, in schools. It shouldn't be allowed. It devalues, dehumanizes, and destroys. The perception of who you really are. Devalues, dehumanizes, and destroys. Devalues, dehumanize, and destroys. That's all it does. Because there is no transition. It must be stopped. And as long as we are playing favor to this and allowing this to occur, we are going to have and continue to have kids who are troubled and kids who take hormones and kids who cut off body parts who can never father a child. Keep in mind, this is the key, this is so important that I say this. Everything about this is God rejecting. And every and is we need to hook up that God rejecting ideology. It's not gender idea, it's God rejecting ideology. Every part of that rejec rejects God.
SPEAKER_01I can hear the response, Wall, especially on the social transition question. Well, if the parents agree that this is a matter of parental rights, and it's not the school's business. If the parents and the child agree that this is the best thing for them, the school should not get in the way of that.
SPEAKER_00What is your response? My response is sure. You want to do that at home, but you can't do it in the public institution. It's a whole different, in my view. Schools should be the place to teach math, social studies, and other things, but not how or allow social training. Would you allow a child, if he felt like he was an alcoholic, to come to school and be an alcoholic? Would you allow a kid to come to school and shoot himself up with heroin? Would you allow a kid to come in and look at pornography in the class? I mean, how many uh we we have somehow lost our mind about what we allow in schools? Like school is some open book for all of the ills that go on in some family or in somebody's mind. We don't want to treat, look, if we get back and ask, why are you doing this? What caused you to do this? And we find out the person's dealing with autogynophilia was is that okay? Or some other identity issue. There's so many things, so that's why it's important for schools to be the safe place to not allow these things to occur. And if parents need to provide some kind of treatment, do that at home. But the school is not the place. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01Well, and and to that point, to agree with you, I mean, if the purpose of a school is education, educ the premise of education is that some things are true and some things are false, which means some things are worth knowing, and you need to know the difference between what is true and what is false. And I think the whole um idea of education becomes silly if you cannot accept the reality that men and women are different and it's not up to you, right? Because then you have abandoned all forms of truth. Everything is a matter of feeling and preference, and then if everything is a matter of feeling and preference, what on earth is education for? Because nothing is actually real. And so I do think you have to just constantly remind children of the limits of their control. And the thing, the the things that are beyond their jurisdiction. And if they don't have a respect for that, um, they're never going to learn anything because they're going to think they can change anything they don't like. And that is just not reality.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and we we teach kids don't put your finger in a light socket, don't put your hand on a fire, right? This is actually no different because it has tremendous destructive quality. But somehow we've we've convinced ourselves because the language seems to be so juicy and friendly that it's okay. It's not okay.
SPEAKER_01Well, Walt, let's do get into the news a little bit here. Sure. Um you a big WNBA fan?
SPEAKER_00Well, it's the it's the remember, the WNBA is funded by the NBA. The men actually put this together, but it's actually the LGBT WNBA.
SPEAKER_01Expand on that for us before we get into the question. Why do you say that?
SPEAKER_00Well, because the the vast majority, this is the same thing with golf. You know, the women's sports is the place for the LGBT to advance their their causes. And so this is where they use it. That's why there's like 70 or 80 percent of the the individuals that play in women's sports, and that's why they hate uh Cunningham and Clark is because they're not LGBT. And so you watch them dance around the language and go, well, I don't know, that's up to the, you know, I'm not gonna talk about that because then I'll get beat up. So um, if we realize that this is the LGBT's agenda, um, then we again putting on a different set of glasses, this is really the LGBT's place to convince you that um, and and you know, here's the funny one. I don't know if you you know this, but there's actually uh a female in women's basketball that identifies as a man. I did not know that. Yeah, so so I I'm not sure where it is, whether it's in this country or another country, but it's it's this is what we're talking about. But to me, that's okay because she's really a woman. Yeah, at least she's playing with the women.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and the and the current problem, and and and I want you to talk about this because this is kind of the the latest reason the WNBA is in the news, is because there are now, as of this recording, three former NBA players who have declared for the WNBA draft upcoming in 2027. And the first was Ennis Cantor. Ennis Freedom Cantor, he actually changed his name. He's a I think I believe he's Turkish, played college basketball in the U.S., was a first-round draft pick. Uh Royce White also, and then uh Larry Sanders, who apparently used to play for the Milwaukee Bucks, all former NBA players who have declared for the NBA draft. Now, the reason this is interesting and kind of funny, and I do think they're just trolling. I don't know how serious they think this is, how far this is actually going to take them, but the the reason this is being done and interesting is because the uh WNBA has had a hard time saying that men, you know, what a woman is, uh effectively. And um Sophie Cunningham, who is a player for the Indiana team, recently said men should not be in women's sports. Her coach was asked about that, and the coach uh would not support the position of her player, basically saying exclusion is never the answer, which is kind of a disguised way of saying we don't mind, I guess, if men play with women. But uh what's your take on all of this? Where it goes? Are they just tying themselves in knots?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I would love to see the men be accepted in there. That's a game I would go watch. You'd watch that? I think a lot of people would. I think I'd watch that game because I think that would be the end of this whole idea about inclusion. But would it, though?
SPEAKER_01Because they they know these guys are way better than the women, right? They that's why there's a women's league. Do they actually care?
SPEAKER_00Can you imagine Cantor doing a clothesline on one of the girls? I mean, I hope he would not. And I don't think he would. I don't think he's out there to do violence, but I think he'd score 75 points if he wanted to. You know, I think just running into them, they're gonna get hurt. You know, it's like running into a brick wall. I mean, that's I mean, the whole thing is so um it is so absurd that it should be on Saturday Night Live. I mean, this is just abs I I just I kind of love the fact that it's putting the WNBA in a spot to where they're gonna have to cave to the LGBT or they're actually gonna have to say we can't allow men and women's sports, no matter what their gender identity is. And that's where I hope it goes. But if it doesn't, uh I think it's gonna get really, really nasty.
SPEAKER_01It does seem to be a case of an immovable force meeting an irresistible object, right? Is it did I say that the right? An irresistible force meeting an immovable object. Because on the one hand, you have this women's sports league, and it's like yay feminism, right? The women have their thing. And then on the other hand, you have this entire of self-actualization, feelings are primary, my truth is you know, is whatever I want it to be. Worldview in in collision, where you will either concede the WNBA to be overtaken by men, that everybody knows are men, or you will do what the left wants to least wants to do, which is draw a line and say, this is what a woman is, irrespective of how you feel. Which of those gives first? Do they give up their entire league in order to preserve the illusion that I can be whatever I want?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And you know, I think it's that the thing about the harm has to be talked about because even in volleyball, some girl got hit with a ball that a guy spiked, you know, he's identifying as a female, he spiked the ball. And got really hurt. And so I think it can happen with a basketball. And so, how you know, come on, let's get a brain and start saying, you know, tell the truth, there is no such thing as a transgender, and stop this nonsense. And but, you know, I'm apparently one of the few outside of Cunningham and and um Clarence Thomas, thank God for him, I love the man.
SPEAKER_01You are not one of the few. You are one of the many. Right? But it's the many agree with you. It's just the many, you know, often don't want to say what they know to be true. Do you have a prediction for how this NBW MBA situation resolves itself?
SPEAKER_00Uh you know, if if the financial power of the LGBTQ holds place, there will be men who identify as women uh in in sports. Um I hope that doesn't come about.
SPEAKER_01I hope so too. But I am not at all sure that the people running these operations won't give up their entire profession before they they give up their independence, which is really once you acknowledge reality that exists independent of my feelings, that is a surrender of their independence, and I am not sure that's not what they value above all.
SPEAKER_00I'm kind of glad that it's happening because now it's it's at the boiling point and somebody's gotta address it and answer it. Before it's just kind of been shoved under the table. So it's gonna hit it's gonna hit the fan.
SPEAKER_01They are being forced to confront it, and uh, when this resolves itself, Walt, we will have you back to uh reflect and tell us what you think about it. But thank you so much for your life and your ministry and your courage and and all the people that you've helped and you in your willingness to say true things, even when it's costly, and uh grateful for your time today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and go to walthy.com and buy a few books.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Walthy.com. I mean, because they really are. I I've read them, Walt, and you have a great story and great insight, and and you've given us a sample of that today, but there is so much more where that came from. So thanks for your ministry, walthire.com. Uh, go check it out, and uh we'll talk to you soon, Walt. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00Thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_01And friends, we thank you for joining us here on Politics for Happy People. Reminder that new episodes drop every Tuesday and Friday. So make sure you find the next one wherever you have found us this time. Like and subscribe so you don't miss it. We look forward to talking to you then.