2 Vintage Sports Guys - Episode 2

Episode 2: Join Joe and Paul as they discuss the WBC (World Baseball Classic), the sports cards from it, MLB Spring Training and cards to keep an eye on.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Welcome back to two vintage sports guys, just talking stuff. My name is Joe Rendacci, and I will be one of your two hosts for this podcast. Kicking it over to you.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Hey, this is Paul Gallagher, and uh here in Atlanta, the box of cards of uh hockey and baseball. I've got basketball on the TV. The Phillies just beat the Blue Jays. Life's good. Spring training. Nobody cares. Doesn't matter. Yeah, it's actually meaningless spring training. But the world baseball classic wasn't. So how about that?

SPEAKER_01 0:39

How about that? Once again, the U.S. is uh always the bridesmaid, never the bride, after Otani struck out Trout three years ago to end that epic script written uh game. This this wasn't as uh interesting as that. But what's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

No, I mean it it only got exciting because the uh Bryce Harper showed up uh in the ninth inning, and it was a boring game, other than that. But it's just great to be back in baseball. Spring training starting. I got to see a lot of players that I normally wouldn't know trying to figure out which teams they're on, and uh Venezuela and Japan and and all kinds of it was fun to watch. It was 10 million times better than spring training. I mean, spring training doesn't matter, uh football preseason doesn't matter, all this preseason stuff needs to change, and it sounds like it might a couple of sports, but um it it was a great way to get back into it. So now we're kind of fired up.

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Who did you think was the biggest um surprise coming out of it that either you weren't expecting something from or were expecting something from and didn't get?

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Yeah, I mean, the easy answer there, the layup is Venezuela coming in, beaten beaten Japan, right? I think uh beat America. Um, Japan didn't come through, which would have been a nice classic, as you say, to see Shohei versus uh versus the Americans would have been a nice one. But just some players, you know, also players that because of insurance or because their teams didn't want them to play, um, didn't come out in the ninth inning. There was a pitcher who the Padres wouldn't let pitch because uh they only wanted them in certain situations. So the the it was a short lease for some players. So difficult to manage, difficult to understand as a fan when uh when money gets involved like it always does. But that was, I think, one of the more disappointing parts of it is I think Puerto Rico lost three or four players because they couldn't play. And and then um, you know, you're questioning the manager on moves that he's making based on what he's allowed to make from the major league team.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

So well, I I think I think like the Olympics or any of these international competitions, there are just teams that are not going to send their best players depending on age, uh, a contract, or to your point, whatever. And I know uh me being a Met fan, you being in your Phillies gear there, I know Harper, Rice Harper made a comment kind of about my uh rookie pitching Phenom Nolan McLean, uh lost both his starts. Uh, and then there was a comment that, well, you didn't score any runs for him. You yeah, he gave up two runs and three runs in his two losses, but it was it was a 2-0 and 3-0 game because Judge is high-fiving everybody in the dugout, but he like struck out five times.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Well, that's like a Phillies playoff game, right? You know, we lose two to nothing, three to nothing all the time. You think Bryce Harper would be used to that, but uh but yeah, I mean a clutch moment for him. He did come through, you know. Judge gets uh gets prodded for not coming through. Um, I think Schwarber had a great, so from a Phillies perspective, you had Schwarber and you had Harper, Schwarber had a great series. So, what I wonder is, will it transfer into the new year? Did these guys get their competitive juices up? April, I think what's the saying? You never win the pennant in April, but you can lose it.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

So with the uh with this world baseball classic from a cards, baseball cards standpoint, uh, what did you see coming out? Uh what did Topps put out for that?

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, so I I think Topps put out a a WBC collection. I didn't look at it or get it, but I think the bigger question is how does it affect prices? How does any event affect prices? Whether it's college basketball for the for the for the rookies coming out, um whether it's uh a performance in the playoffs for super for football, this WBC, we had some clutch Venezuelan players, Acunya, does Acunya stock go up just on this? Um, I I think that's the most interesting thing is when you have performances on stage in a special event, and how does that hurt or help their values? I think you're looking at plus 10, 20, maybe even 30 up or down values. So, you know, a harper coming through with a home run, you know, might keep him even instead of losing 20% of his value. So I couldn't point to one particular guy coming out of that WBC, but I do think overall the impact would be learning players that you had no idea who they were.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

At that point, we'll wait and see. But if uh if we're looking back at the the WBC cards from the 2023-2024 market, it looks like, and I'll definitely hack this name, the 2023 Bowman Chrome Moniteca Murakami. Yeah, we're gonna see how bad I hacked that. Yeah, that's their flag variation super card listed for $100,000. And then it looks like the 2023 Chops, uh Shohei Otani, WBC Purple Parallel at a PSA of 10, listed around 12,300, and uh was marketed as the holy grail of the of that tournament. So then there was some bucks that came out of it around Shohei and uh his countrymen there.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

I had a conversation yesterday with somebody and said, yep, baseball's boring, and and yes, it can be. But how does a world baseball classic bring young fans back into the sport and then that adult or that kid go back in and actually look at some cards and follow some players? And and yes, the investment in that card will go up, the value in that card will go up, but that's an organic thing coming from the collector and not so much looking at as a dollar value first and then what to collect. That's my yeah, I'll get off my stump.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

And to that point, this year, out of nowhere, came my Italians out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, that's the guy. Oh, yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the guy.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

So my Italians all of a sudden are on an unbeaten streak, almost going to the finals, derailed by Venezuela. And then when you start looking at the roster, above cost, you're gonna see a handful of the MLB players, but there were also some top, you know, prospects from the Italy league.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Yeah, that's you know, you're absolutely it wasn't Canada, it was Italy. I've mentioned Canada before. It was, I forget what the what the guy's name is, but he's a stud. He you're everybody's gonna be looking him up now. Who's this guy? It wasn't Caglione, but it was somebody else.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

It was well, it it obviously ended in a bell because we're all the Italians, but exactly. But um, yeah, he the the big guy, and I can't think of his name, and I think it's Paglioli or something like that. But yeah, Italians played well. So now, do you actually launch enough people in Italy and around the world that now take an interest in baseball that may have not because they were on the world stage, right? So we showed you showed some action there. Yeah, you may see some action with the cards for those players. Um, and just to jump on for a quick word with with the digital card content, um, MLB, the show by uh that that drops on PlayStation and Xbox came out uh on the 17th, and that's the biggest game in baseball for two decades. And um the the Diamond Dina uh Diamond Dynasty on there, which is what everybody plays and buys their cards with coins. It's interesting because they sell the basic set uh game every year and they sell the deluxe set. You you actually pay more cash to buy a set that gives you digital currency and uh and a shot at some premium cards so you could build your collection. And you'll find out by the end of a season there are people that drop like five figures in in virtual currency to buy cards for the game that will then be you know defunct after the season ends and the next game comes out next year.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

You're in a whole other world, brother.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah, I don't understand any of what you just said. Um well, but there are plenty of people out there, half our age, that do. And um the NBTs, you remember the uh that that came out a few years ago? Yeah, yeah. That that's what people would sell a character or a card for somebody else to use in a game, and it would sell it for five, six figures, which is insanity. Yeah, but that's it, it is it is happening. That's that's happening out there. So, all right, so that covers digital, physical cards, WBC, which takes us right into you mentioned a little earlier about the philias and spring training, spring training, baseball's here, it's all about baseball. Spring training thoughts heading into um opening day next week.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, it's crazy. So here it is. Uh, yeah, spring training is as pointless as any preseason sport could be. Um, I think there's players fighting for three bench spots, but it is it it's a great warm-up, right? Baseball's here, it's all about baseball. Um, there's other things going on. Um, March Madness is here, and March is great for that for that tweener season, but yeah, it it's it's all about you know where we're gonna where things are gonna settle. I think this is you know, not to jump too far ahead, but next year there's probably a lockout, there's probably a salary cap, there might even be a minimum floor. So I think we really need to maximize the most out of we can this year, not knowing what next year holds for baseball. So personally, it's it's let's see some. What is what does the pirates do with the schemes? Do they give them any support? Um, I I I like the underdogs, obviously. I like my hometown team. They've become one of the problems of uh baseball and spending too much money. But God bless them for it. It's not my money, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

I shouldn't really complain too much, but uh no, I you know why we complain because there's it's it's there's consequences to everything. Uh you know, my Mets, you want to give Soto, you want to back the truck up, break the bank. Um, he can't hit nine times in one inning, right? Like so right, and when you spend that much, it's gonna come out of a pitcher, a starter, a reliever, somebody, right? So it's the you need balance, not not just break the bankers, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:57

How do you build a team, right? How do you how do you how do you allocate your money? How do you build a team? It's like why we all want to, that's why we do fantasy sports, because we can be a GM and we can build little spreadsheets and we can see where to put all the money. Um, you know, not doesn't all translate to the cards, not all about cards and everything, but just playing GM, what are we gonna do? And I I think next year is a watershed moment for baseball. They're gonna they're gonna try and put in a cap, but at the same time try to put in a floor. So you're gonna have a minimum spend.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, I don't think it's happening. And I I I listen a lot to they were talking about it and they and the the MLB union back to the days of Marvin Miller in the you know the 70s, uh, and then they just built they have a war chest right now where to your point, they've been planning for two or three years that like we could sit out two or three years and keep you guys, you know, but if you're gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

If you're a player though, if you're a player, and let's just say you're at the tail end of your career, and there's only six teams that are approaching the salary cap or the tax threshold, I should say. All of a sudden, if you if you bring another six to ten teams at the bottom and force them to spend another 20-30 million dollars, you can extend your career. You can go to Pittsburgh and be a DH. You can go to Minnesota and make pretty good money. And I don't like the word parity, but you can bring everybody up. So I think that it would be short-sighted for a player to say, Well, I don't I don't want a cat because the floor is more important. There's 10 teams that don't spend any money, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

So there's a lot of ways to look at that, but yes, like football, where pretty much every given season you can go from you know worst to first with a better possibility than baseball. Um yes, because on on a given year, the infield cost of the New York Yankees, infield, exceeds most small market teams, right? Right, and those teams, unless they've brought up, you know, so many rookies that all gelled at once are not gonna compete. And even if they do, they're not gonna have the money to pay them all in three to five years, and they're gonna pull a Florida Marlins who wins a World Series and the next year dumps everybody and is under 500, right? Yeah, so but back to the spring training, if we take a look at some of uh spring training surprises, it looks like we've had Carl, and I'm just bad with names, Carlos Lagrange, 102 mile an hour fastball. So what we're starting to see, and this has been going on for about two or three years, they are bringing up relievers that can just constantly throw over 100 miles an hour that have no aim, which is why people are getting hit more left and right. Like my Mets like led the league two of the last three years of getting hit with balls. Now it's probably because half of the teams don't like them, but it's also because half these pitches have no aim anymore, and and they just hit them, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:15

It's like major league, you know. You know, it's uh the pitcher on major league. So yeah, yeah, no control, but everybody will sign a 102 mile an hour guy. So, you know, I I I did go out, so I did go out and buy uh a box of heritage baseball cards, you know, to try and get back into it. There's some great cards in there, it's fun, it's a rel, it's more expensive than last year, but still, as far as a hobby box goes, the cheapest one out there. I'm not so sure that you make your money back on everything, but you have fun collecting. So I'm a I'm a series collector. If I buy one box or one hobby box, then I go and try to fill up the whole series and get the whole thing. So I'll over the next couple of weeks probably buy one or two more, maybe some blaster boxes. But Heritage is a fun product, it looks good, has a lot of inserts, has a lot of fun cards in it. So that for me is uh is where I'm at with with spring training. Maybe down the road I'll get Bowman or I'll get some of the other things. But right now, I went out and bought a box of Heritage and had some fun opening it.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

So it looks like Chase Lautner for Cleveland's batting 393 right now and buying for a starting right field job, uh, despite minor league action. So it'd be interesting to see where his card is and how the market moves. Is it truly like the stock market on any given day? It moves up or down based upon new info, good or bad, right? Like, does spring training show where cards are are increasing, decreasing on a day? Like, what what's the best site? Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

I think just like we said, spring training's a waste of time. So it probably what it'll do is just like WBC, it'll give you some insight into players to track for the year. So some people, when they're collecting, they say, I'm gonna try and pick the rookie of the year. So you could use a spring training to flush out that philosophy. You could say, all right, let me let me find 10 players I'm gonna I'm gonna pick um and track them and and collect their card, and hopefully one of them hits on uh on rookie of the year, and then all of a sudden you've got something worthwhile. That's the only effect I see spring training or the WBC doing is just to give you more exposure to who's who. Who insert your joke, who's on first, what's on second. I don't know who's on third, but he's having a good spring training, so we'll see uh what happens.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

All right, so going into then um well, big blank there that I just drew. So going into the start of Major League Baseball next week, uh my Mets are uh hosting the Pirates, and obviously that means skiing is a game one.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Oh, there you go. So you're starting here 0-1.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

That's good. We should start 0-1, correct, most likely to one and one and two after a three-game match there. And your Phillies are are phase one.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

We have Texas Rangers coming all the way up from Arlington uh to Philadelphia. So uh Phillies actually have a Ranger. I don't know where Garcia, if he's starting in uh in left field or not, but uh he'll be playing his old team. And like I said, we'll we'll having the competitive juices in that WBC carry over to the locker room and carry over to the field so the backs bats aren't cold.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

So hey, those rangers, you know who they took from me? Well, who went there? My uh big trade. Nemo went there.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Yeah. Well, didn't you get did you get Seager too? Did you have a big you had a big trade with them?

SPEAKER_01 19:00

No, we just we lost Nemo to Texas and we didn't get Seeger. We didn't get honestly, we have our GM is uh uh what's his name from uh Milwaukee, who builds who built these weird Milwaukee teams. It's a little Billy Beanish like from Moneyball where he doesn't he doesn't really just go after the studs for the money. He tries to build some wack-a-doo team. It worked for him in Milwaukee to a certain point, but um it exploded in in his face with the Mets last year when we couldn't have a starting pitcher go four innings for most of the year.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

So and uh was sitting on one starting pitcher now. Peralta, who we got from Milwaukee, surprise, surprise. He's good, and uh what are your Phillies uh starting five look like?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

It's all it's so they just came out with it. Sanchez is starting, um Nola uh second. We did have Andrew Painter uh getting the fifth spot. So Painter made the team and Wheeler starting on the DL. So Wheeler will come in later, but that's a decent one. Painter would be a guy that I would like to see, you know, what his not only his cards, but his career and and where he goes. High draft pick, uh, valuable player. Let's see where he goes. He's he he's early in the contention for uh some good things happening.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Got it. So to wrap this up with uh cards that we should be on the lookout for, maybe having a good week with uh with baseball starting.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Yeah, you can look at the Venezuelans, you can look at Acunya, you can look at everything, but again, I would just say have fun with it. Go do some homework, find out who you like. If you've got a favorite team, go get those guys. It gets you into the season. Go go rip some cards and and see what you can get, and then follow those players, and maybe you'll learn, you know, some new guys on your team that are just coming off.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I I well, I will go out and buy some uh get myself some Italian baseball cards, and those those two words have never gone together usually. And I will and I will close with this. It was nice for once to say there's another hit by the Italians, and I'll be talking about a mob wipeout.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Yeah, you know, always politically correct, Joe. Thanks very much.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

We'll end on that. We'll end on that. And we will end on that. I am Joe Rendacci and Paul Gallagher. And you guys have a good one. See ya.