2 Vintage Sports Guys - Episode 8

Episode 8: Join Joe and special guest Chris Gilbert as they discuss and debate the Angels-Braves "Thrilla in Anaheim" slapfight, hot collector cards from Chris, and the Dodgers-Blue Jays Game 2, with a vintage card story from the Brooklyn Dodgers! 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Good afternoon, everyone. This is two vintage sports guys chatting. Today we're gonna have a special guest as Paul's still on vacation. I am Joe Rendacci, and I'm throwing it over to our both comment and sport card collector, Chris Gilbert. Hey, Chris.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Hey, good afternoon, Joe. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, depending on when you're watching. And um, I'm Chris Gilbert, I'm from Atlanta. Originally, I lived in Philadelphia and I was a little leaguer. I was in all kinds of sports, but I was really very keen in in baseball uh in the 70s and 80s and have continued to collect over the years.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

All right. Well, thank you, Chris. So we have another guy from Atlanta. You guys from Atlanta just love to tell us all you're from Atlanta. Never tell anybody about it.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

I'll I'll admit that openly, but I spent the first 12 or 13 years in Philly, so I like to think that um I'm a good mix between the north and the south.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

That that accent is long gone, but well, there's no southern draw either. So you're almost uh I'm fairly westerner with no actual accent. But anyway, all right. Well, let's jump into what's going on. We're gonna talk about two different things. We'll start with the uh Ali Frazier heavyweight bout last night uh between the Braves and uh LA. Why don't you tell us a little about that fight?

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Well, you know, it's funny, you can't see me right now, but I'm staring at Muhammad Ali's signed trunks, which I have had a copy of since the Atlanta Olympics. I had an opportunity to meet him uh back when they came in for the Olympics. So I'm I'm actually doing this podcast staring at uh a signed picture of his his trunks of Muhammad Ali. And you know, the Braves traditionally, I think most Braves fans know this, the Braves aren't big fighters. I've always said they're lovers, not fighters. Um they love the game, they're out there to play. And so last night's uh Lopez solar um little bout was a was a real surprise for me. I mean, not just as a Braves fan, but so you're also happened to have been a Brave in the last couple of years. So it it seemed odd that you had potentially two former teammates fighting each other, um, certainly people who know each other.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah, so when I when I watch the video of it there and I'm listening to them saying they're throwing um haymakers, I don't know, it looked more like a slap fight to me. I think at the end of the day, they're all afraid of hurting each other and hurting their contracts.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

It doesn't look like anybody really brawls anymore for the for the sake of uh as you as you know, I've trained in mixed martial arts, so I'm a blacked out American Kenpo karate. That was not a fight. Uh Lopez was backing off before the swings started, and and I would characterize those as haymakers. You could see them coming from from Jersey, right? Those swings were not very eloquent swings.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Well, and he didn't even throw his glove off until it was almost over. If you really want to get into a fight, you're gonna get rid of that glove a little quicker than he did.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, I mean, you gotta wonder if Lopez was still a little burned about the home run. I think uh Sawyer hit a home run in the first inning.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Um might have felt like he came back to and then he tried to hit him. So, I mean, that's why he charged him out there.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

There you go, and and that's baseball, right? I mean, we don't see it like we used to, but um, when you when you throw to hit somebody, you're gonna get a reaction, and they got a reaction. I'd rather it's odd to see the angels and and braves out there fighting, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

I'd rather watch Major League when they fight each other. That's still the best uh movie. We'll have to do a sports movies uh podcast one day.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Well, I know you're very into hockey, and I I I went to a lot of hockey uh when I was younger. Uh my wife loved it as well. But you know, part of the part of the hockey is the action and the fighting. Um, I I'm glad it's not prevalent in baseball anymore because I think baseball, you know, being America's sport, I think it has a little bit different, just a lot more kids in in baseball, I think, than than hockey, but that's that's my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

I mean, hockey, you you sign thugs that could only fight and and can't hit a puck, right? Like that's the Ty Domeys. You go down the list. There are movies um that just glorify the fighting. And the old joke is you you go to a fight and a hockey game breaks out.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

That's you know, that's that is absolutely fair, and I I remember those movies with affection. Uh, they were a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Slap Slapshot, right? So we've already mentioned Slapshot, Paul Newman, we got major league. We're gonna have to do a whole sports uh podcast.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yeah, that'd be fun. Slapshot, though, being particularly fun because it it definitely uh leans into that narrative, no doubt about it.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Oh, the Hansen brothers.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, the Hansen brothers. I couldn't remember the name. Yeah, but that's good.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Three of them were actually minor league players and they couldn't act for anything, and they were out there really hitting everybody they could. But that was 1976 in the good old days, and uh that's long gone. But let's uh let's transition to some rookies here.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Why don't you tell us about what uh what you have as far as some Braves rookie cards that you're yeah, I mean, I you know, being a being a collector, and I think you and I talked about this offline uh from time to time, that you know, the the collecting has has changed a lot, and data and and ai are a big part of that, right? Because we now see these players when they're in their teens. And there's not a lot of surprise when these folks come up to college, they've already been looked at. So it has changed the way as a collector you collect. And and you do have to make, you know, you do have to place bets. I mean, it is a little bit of a gamble. Who are the who are the players you think are gonna make it? Pitchers have a tendency to either, you know, as a collector, all or nothing. They either do really great, like a Paul Skeens, or or they burn out uh or they go somewhere else. Um, I I've had a couple players that I've had, I've been looking at the last couple of years, like Hurst and Waldripp for the Braves and Didier Fuentes. Didier was called up last year, I think for a couple games, um, did what he needed to do and was sent back down. But I I I look at Didier as someone who's most likely going to be on the roster this year uh for the Braves. And you know, Braves' pitching is critical. I mean, you look at the Braves' success in the past, it's all been predicated on pitching. We all remember the Maddox, Glavin, um you know, years, Smoltz. I mean, those guys were just And Avery.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Don't forget Avery.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

And don't forget about Avery, and of course, my buddy John Rocker. Um, John's a personal friend, so I'd be remiss not to mention John. Um, John played with intensity. And so for me as a collector, I like the players that have played with intensity. In fact, when I look at the players that I've met over the years, um I don't know that you remember this, but when we were working together, I had I took Pete Rose to launch Unity just a few years ago before he passed to meet Pete Rose. I always gravitated toward those players that you know they called him Charlie Hustle. If he were on the diamond, he was hustling. And I I know he had some extracurricular challenges.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

They they they called him a lot of things. Let's uh let's let's not go down to Pete Rose. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

But I think for me personally, the players that I want to meet are the players that loved the game, that were intense about the game. And you can say what you want about his other activities, but when he played ball, it was always 110%.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

It was Charlie Hussle when he was knocking out Ray. Was it Ray Fossey at home plate during the All-Star game? You got it. Never played well again. So did you get uh Otis Nixon and John Rocker to sign their cards?

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Uh, you know what? I never got Rocker to sign a card. Um, Otis and I are are still very close. I do see John at least once a year. I probably should have his cards signed. Um, but we're close enough that you know it's almost embarrassing to pull them out at this point. Um, but I do again, I I still place bats uh when it comes to players that are up and coming. And I mentioned Didier Fuentes. I like his style, I like his pitching. Um, I'd say the same about Hurston. Uh, I tend to gravitate towards those cards and those uh players that you know I think are going to make a difference or that I know that are putting in 100-110%.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

All right. Well, let's talk with let's talk about probably the most uh talked about rookie today, especially since he just signed a, I believe, nine-year $140 million extension. Uh, what's your thoughts on Connor Griffin? And what's your thoughts on which card uh we should be looking for out there?

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Well, Joe, and I know you're a Mets fan. I'm a Braves fan. That makes us underdogs, you know, just by the nature of that fandom.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

You're another mortal enemy, just like Ricky. Back to back days. I gotta find out.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

And Ricky said it yesterday, right? Like all the he thought Skeens was gonna go to the Dodgers, right? Because the Dodgers are the financial powerhouse. I don't agree with that. Uh, I like Podcast Seven, but I think that Ricky was off on that. I I agree with you that the the pirates are gonna do whatever, really whatever they can do to retain skeins. And he's putting butts in seats. So let's not forget, you know, that's a big part of the sport. Um, but I will say I think the pirates organization, they brought up some great players. Uh Bubba Chandler's another one. Uh, collected some of Bubba Chandler's cards, and I've watched his value, you know, really uh rise here, especially in the past year. Uh Connor, I think a lot of people saw Connor coming. Uh, but what's interesting, and I know we talked about this just briefly offline, is that his card has dipped in value. His card, I don't know how much it dipped in value. I wasn't following it last week. But when he when it was announced that he was going down, there was a valuation change, and it was just a temporary move. Um, they've come out and explained, you know, kind of why they did it. But you know, that that does affect card values. So as a collector, you know, you you have to you have to pay attention to what's going on, and you have to pay attention to what's going on behind the scenes. Uh, for a lot of people, they thought maybe he was getting sent down, and it really wasn't a send down. It was a you know, a temporary adjustment. It was a move uh to get him more comfortable uh as they brought him up. And as it turned out, right, he was back uh and announced to the team a week less than a week later.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

I think you nailed on something you just said. Uh, as far as when you see these guys coming, and he's been one of the most touted um up-and-coming prospects for a while, everybody's gonna be ready, everybody's gonna jump on it, everybody's gonna buy it. So is we're looking at his 2024 Bowman Chrome uh first auto Connor Griffin, and it's sixteen hundred and seventy-five dollars in a nine uh rating. So, where do you think that sits? Is that a good investment right now? Is this thing gonna be?

SPEAKER_01 10:40

I think that's a bit high. Um, I wasn't buying Connor Griffin at that level, but to that point, JJ Weatherhole, there's a there's a few players over this last year that have come have pre-commanded uh numbers that you know a lot of people say, are they really gonna get there? And I think in some cases they will, and the values will continue to go up. So if I could predict this, um I would probably be retired uh because it's again one of those things. You never know when someone's gonna get injured, you never know when someone's gonna be out or sent back down. Uh so it is a bit of a gamble. I like to take a risk on people that aren't the people that everyone has their eyes on, the people that maybe they should have their eyes on, or the ones with the stats that you know just aren't getting um the attention. Uh and of course, some teams are getting more attention than others. I mean, the the there's a lot of um the pirates have not been very successful, but some of the pirates players and up-and-coming players have been, you know, extremely valued and extremely looked at. And I don't disagree with Ricky's comment on podcast seven that the Dodgers aren't getting some of the best pitchers in baseball, right? They've proven that they're willing to stretch out and pay and pay money for the right people. I think you guys also made the point.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

As you know, and we discuss like whether and that's that that becomes the question. So what let's jump over to the Dodgers as they're just beat Toronto again uh following last year's World Series, their ridiculous last-minute World Series win for back-to-back because they go for the trifecta here. And what cards, I know you got a great old card that I want you to talk about, uh as far as the Dodgers.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah, I mean, I was a Pee-Re Reese fan. Um, so uh you can't tell on a podcast, but I'm I'm a towering five foot six, five foot seven, and the tallest person in my family. So uh some of those older, smaller players, I I've always been a fan. Um, my father was a Dodgers fan. I I remember being in high school and I was still collecting in high school, and I was at a um a flea market in Atlanta. I just moved to Atlanta from South Florida, and I was just sort of kicking around, not looking for anything in particular. And I found the 1953 Pee-wee Reese Bowman Color card, which arguably is one of the first action cards, certainly one of the first color cards. Um, you can make an argument that there were action cards before that, but the 53 Pee Wee Reese um was really the prize of my collection. Um, I think I've sent a copy of that over to you. It it graded in a wall.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, I'll they're looking at the picture right now when I say this because I'll edit it in at that point. What um it's a pretty good looking one.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

I'm gonna say it's a pretty good looking one, and I'm proud of my 15-year-old self for keeping it in at least decent shape.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

15. So you bought it 42 years ago?

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Uh it wouldn't have been quite that long. Maybe maybe I was I was driving, so maybe I was 16 or 17, but yeah, it's been it's been that long.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Wow. So you got it what in the 80s, right? And at that point it was 30 years old. And and how much did you pay?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

I think I paid 22 or 23 dollars for that card, and eight, I would have been about 85 or 86.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yeah, that's about right. I mean, the condition it's in, and you know, a lot of things we had an opportunity to buy that would be worth a lot more nowadays that we didn't. And uh as as I mentioned with Ricky, as we're buying all these dumb baseball cards in the mid-80s, uh, did any of us grab the Jordan rookie in '86?

SPEAKER_01 14:19

You know, it's funny, you mentioned that on podcast seven, and and I go back to where I was at that time. I was working for Champs Sporting Goods, my junior and senior year of high school, and there was a new phenomenon that happened that year. It was uh it was called Air Jordans, right? The Air Jordans came out, and there I was selling them, uh a high school kid. I bought a couple pairs, I had the foresight to buy a couple pairs. I didn't save them over the years, I wore them, but I should have been tipped off back in '85, '86 that collectibles were going somewhere because I remember collecting baseball cards.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Why didn't well why didn't either of us pick up a Jordan? We saw him coming all the way from North Carolina and the women shot. He didn't surprise anybody.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Well, and that's the point, right? The shoes were flying off the shelf. There were lines around them all. First time that phenomenon really happened, other than concerts. And I should have had the wherewithal to pick up some of his rookie cards because I knew better. But, you know, who knew the value would be where they are today? I mean, it really back then you would say you would make an argument not to be a card collector, not to be a car CAR collector, because they didn't go up in value. Well, I have a 68 Camaro, let me tell you, that's gone way up in value, right? So the things that we were told not to collect for value have turned out to be valuable. It's it's we're in bizarre world in a lot of ways, but I think that's that's probably one of them when it comes to collectibles.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Bottom line is you and I should own that Jordan rookie because we were collecting cards at the time, should have seen it, should have had the foresight. We 100%. What it could have been.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

And I I have the opportunity to meet him in Charlotte. I was with the chief of the Cherokee Nation, Chief Michelle Hicks, and uh the chief brought me as a um as a guest. And I didn't bring my cards, I didn't bring anything for him to sign because you know, within the last couple of years, it's it's very clear he doesn't like to sign. So I didn't want to be that guy. But to your point, I've had opportunities over the years that I just never took, and I am kicking myself a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

Well, with Jordan, I know there was um there was a controversy with his rookie card because apparently they uh the primary controversy, I'm just gonna read it, surrounding a rookie card 8485 was the NBA banning his red and black Nike air ship shoes, which violated the legal uniformity rule. That's right. Uh Nike utilized this. So because of that, and I remember that there were just uh the controversy brings up then which is his actual rookie card of value. I guess that's the key word of value.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Well, and I could be mistaken, and I'm not reading this quick enough, but I believe it was all about the color of the of the shoes on the court. They didn't want the courts marked up with colored shoes.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

I think that was part of the controversy. As you can see, the 86 Flear rookie card uh scam was because there were counterfeit cards also. So again, yeah, that makes sense. Plenty of people saw this coming. Uh we just didn't apparently.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

So well, I I like to think and tell myself I didn't collect Yankee cards because um I didn't like the Yankees.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Uh the truth is the Yankees, but I still have them all because I just bought I just bought pack after pack after pack. I wasn't gonna throw them out.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Well, and I I traded them. So I I remember finally sitting in friends' basements doing card trading in the 70s and and just be you know giving away those Yankees, you know, even mantle. And I I just um I I wasn't a Yankee fan. Uh but now looking back um and I bought Yankee cards since then, I bought a mantle that was supposed to be a um uh and I'm I'm gonna blank out on the year, but I bought a card that turned out to be um a uh a fake card. Um in fact I I bought three or four cards from the same guy in Tennessee, and I made it a point to go after him. Uh I worked with um somebody who verified that they were fake. Uh I I'm not sure if I should do a plug or not, but just cards in Atlanta is fantastic. Uh Joe, who runs just cards and that team, to me, they're some of the better, one of the better card stores in the country, certainly in the Atlanta area. What I love about them is they will validate cards. I think they don't quote me on the number. I think it's somewhere around two bucks, and they will pre-grade a card for you. They will also tell you whether a card is fake or not fake. The three mail cards I got from the sky had turned out to be fake. And I went after them. I haven't concluded that legal action yet, but uh, and I've never sued anyone in my life over anything. I did it because I think the hobby needs it. I think the hobby needs to get rid of people who are yep.

SPEAKER_00 18:54

To your point, you know, it's funny, and we're both comic collectors as well as cards, and with all the uh CGC now or PSA, there's something to be said for not being able to hold and smell a card or a book anymore, but there's something to be said to have it validated that it's real and not run into your uh Manual three card uh three card three-card Monty uh scam there.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

So well, these were pretty good fakes. I gotta give it to them. It it took a professional, um pretty high-level professional to to you know call this out and say, yes, it's a fake. Uh it got by me, it got by a couple other people uh before it got to just cards. And again, they do a great job. I mean, that pre-rating system they have. Uh, I know other card shops actually send some of their clients and their clients' cards to just cards. Right. So I think they've got a great program there, and it it's worth a mention.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Very cool, very cool. Well, and just like that, this episode is concluding. I want to thank uh Chris Gilbert for joining as a guest host today, and we will have you back if uh you are so inclined. And final thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

Final thoughts. Um, players have to stop playing on the offseason elsewhere. I'm still a little ticked at the Braves. I'm a firm believer that uh Ronald Kuna Jr. got hurt in Venezuela and then got hurt uh in in July of 2021 uh on the Braves. I I don't I'm not thrilled with some of the moves the Braves have made and letting their players play other places in the offseason is going to be my pet peeve the next couple years. We'll see how that plays out.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Well, since you wanted to go there, then I will end this with Edward Diaz, who got hurt in that last WPC, jumping up and down at home plate, celebrating his team winning. He didn't even get hurt playing. Yeah. So and that cost us a year and a season.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

I mean, look, things things happen. I'm real, I'm I'm real world, but um putting that much pressure on your body year-round uh when you're making you know 20, 30, 40 million a year seems irresponsible to me.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Well, you know, they said that Skeens, uh his two starts led to him barely, he didn't even get out of the first inning in the opening day against the Mets.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

Saw that.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

Saw that you go.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

And I'm a big Skeens fan, but you know, not everybody's perfect. Um we'll see how he does over time. I think he's gonna be a Hall of Famer, but we'll we'll see how that plays out.

SPEAKER_00 21:27

His his outfielder couldn't catch the ball twice, but still he was getting hit around that that game. And that's it. All right, Chris. Thank you, and goodbye, everybody. Take care.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Goodbye.