2 Vintage Sports Guys - Episode 10

Episode 10: Join Joe and his very special guest, legendary MLB Starting Pitcher, Tommy John! We discuss his remarkable career, which spanned three decades from 1963 to 1989, and the now-famous surgery that bears his name. Tommy and my good friend, Mark Turner, join us to discuss Mark's collection of Tommy John baseball cards. 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome back, everyone. This is Joe Rendacci from Two Vintage Sports Guys, doing a very special podcast today. My co-host Paul is still somewhere out there on vacation. I think he's in this state of chaos as usual, but we're not going to worry about Paul today. We have the legendary Tommy John, one of the best South Pauls ever to play Major League Baseball here with us, and we're going to go through his just remarkable career. He had, for those that don't know, a career that spanned 26 seasons from 1963 through 1989. He was on Cleveland, he was on the Chicago White Sox, the Dodgers, the Yankees, California, and Oakland. He finished with a 288-231 record, which is 26th best all time. On the Southpaws, he was number seven all-time. And just a little note, he hit five homers as the hitting legend in him, which is better than most pitchers ever did. He was in 760 games, which was 700 starts. That's eighth all time. 4,710 innings pitched for 20th all time, an ERA of 3.34 with 2,245 strikeouts. That's 162 complete games with 46 shutouts. Just compare that to pitchers nowadays who were lucky they could get through five innings to get a win in their column. His postseason record was 6-3 with a 2.65 ERA over 88 innings. He was a 20-game winner three different times. And we're going to work a little backwards here. His last game was May 25th, 1989, at age 46. And I believe he was the oldest at that time, and he was just eclipsed shortly thereafter. And that game was the New York Yankees. He was playing the California Angels, five innings pitched, but a reliever uh gave up a run, so he wound up with a no decision. And my last stat is going to be the most staggering to me. He holds a record, major league record of 188 no decisions. So on top of his 288 wins, how many of those no decisions, if they weren't ruined by a reliever, how many more wins would he have? 12 would have given him an easy to get to 300 and a no-brainer for the Hall of Fame, which shockingly he is not in. We're gonna just kick it off to Tommy now uh to introduce himself. And then uh Tommy, if you don't mind, I'd like to just work a little backwards in some of your thoughts on that last game.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

My last game that I pitched?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Yep. Why don't you just introduce yourself first? I just gave you one, but hi.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

I'm Tommy John, former major league pitcher. I can't tell you about my last game I pitched because I can't remember it. That's how old I am.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

That's all right. I can't remember dinner last night. I'm a little bit younger there, so don't worry about it. But what the record shows is as I mentioned, you pitched a good five innings, a reliever gave up a run, you didn't get a decision. That was you had 187 more no decisions, but what what did you think of all those no decisions that the no decisions you were getting back then?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

I didn't, you know, I pitched to have fun, to win. No decision. It I I didn't even think about it, truthfully, until somebody told me that about uh the 188 no decisions. Um I I I just I pitched that was my job and I worked for my job every year and come what may, you know, I got ready for the ball game and the managers that managed me knew that all they had to do was say, TJ, get ready, you're gonna go in in two innings. I get up and I get myself ready to pitch out of the bullpen. I I I I just that was my job. My my job was to pitch, and I pitched whenever they told me to.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

So you took the ball, was it still every fifth day back then, or this is whenever they said they needed you? Did it matter?

SPEAKER_02 4:59

It did it didn't make any difference. Um mostly every fifth day.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Now I know you had after your uh your surgery, we we could just mention that quickly here. I mean, uh I how do you feel being known? Uh you're obviously known as a legendary pitcher, but with the Tommy John surgery, what's your thoughts about how now people refer to that?

SPEAKER_02 5:23

I'm blessed. Um when I hurt my elbow, I couldn't pitch. I mean, I couldn't throw the ball 20 feet. And I was with the Dodgers at the time, and we had an outstanding orthopedic surgeon by the name of Frank Job. And Dr. Job was was our team physician, but he was also a very good friend. And he told me I was gonna need surgery. I didn't want it, but he said it, and I okay, let's go, let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

And it looks like you then uh worked with uh your pitching teammate Mike Marshall, who says uh torture how to pitch in a way to put less stress on your legs and arms?

SPEAKER_02 6:20

That is that is false. I wouldn't ask that's out there. I wouldn't ask Mike Marshall where to let my dog take a poop.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

See, see uh see where we are now, everything we get off the internet, we have to question it. So, was there actually somebody else who helped you uh learn a different way to pitch after that?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

I didn't I pitched the the same way before surgery as I did after surgery.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Okay, and that it going by the fact that you won 164 games after surgery, and it obviously you went right back to what you were doing. And some of your most productive years with the Dodgers and Yankees were right after that. Did you feel blessed that you were able to come back and and still perform at such a high caliber uh and make the all-star team three times after that?

SPEAKER_02 7:20

I came back because that's what they were paying me to do.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

And when you came back, did you take the mound with no fear of re-injuring it? Did you just give it your all each game? Did you feel you held back any just in case of?

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Nope. I went out and I pitched. I warmed up, I pitched as long as the batters would let me. And then I went in, iced my elbow, and got it ready for my next start.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

And being that you pick you pitched through three decades of the 60s, 70s, and 80s, and you were a year off short of making it four and getting to the 90s. What's your thoughts on hitters you faced back from the 60s versus the 70s versus the 80s? Do you remember who you like toughest battery you ever faced was?

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Toughest hitter back was a left-handed hitter. I couldn't get the son of a gun out. And it was Dick McCullough.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Okay. I I I'm not gonna remember that off the top of my head. Who do you play for?

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Detroit Tigers.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

There we go. Okay, and a lefty no less. You you couldn't slide that one past them, I'm guessing.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Nope, I couldn't. I just I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

And um would you say going into was that was that what years was that about? Was that in the mid-sixties? Yeah. Okay. And then as you got into the 80s, and you know, when you start getting into the 80s, you're starting to see skinnier players with with you know, bat speed was always is always a thing. They started getting a little bigger and bigger, right? And we know by the time the 90s came with Maguire and Sosa, and they all look like linebackers hitting all those homers. But from what you remember in the early 80s, uh, was there a tough guy to pitch to as you were winding your career down? You named one of them.

SPEAKER_02 9:25

Mark McGuire was tough.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, I if I remember right, I think he had 49 homers in his rookie season. So that that man can hit.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

And the thing about Mark, his dad was my dentist back in California.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

Yeah, really?

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

That's funny. What about his bash brother, uh Jose Canseco?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

You know, if it's funny, I got Jose out.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Well, I think he struck out a fair amount, right? So, and I don't remember. Was he writing?

SPEAKER_02 9:58

I didn't strike him out. I I didn't strike him out, I got him out.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

When I compare your record, you know, it's funny. If you you pitched back then alongside uh not on the same team, but at the same time with Sandy Colfax. And you know, Sandy Colfax, for those that don't remember, was is considered one of the greatest pitchers, right, of all time. But if you look at his stats, and and anybody who back then would probably know, he had major leagues for 12 seasons, but really the phenomenal seasons were only like the last five. He retired after 12 seasons, and but his first six or seven, it was like the tale of two pitchers. Do you remember anything about Sandy?

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Well, yeah, when I went in to get my arm operated on, I told Dr. Job, I said, Yeah, when you're in there, give me a COFAX fastball. And he just laughed. He said, Okay, I will. Well, when it came out, and he did give me a COFAX, but it was Mrs. KOFAX.

SPEAKER_00 11:11

That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

What um no, I don't uh see, I was in the American League and Sandy was in the National League, so I never saw him pitch.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Oh, wow, okay. That's that's true, right? It's not like all the interleague play today, and I'm guessing you didn't face them, obviously, uh in the World Series. But um, did you when you were with the Dodgers, was he part of the front office at all? Was he still around the team or was he not really?

SPEAKER_02 11:41

He would he would come down to spring training, and um Sandy and I would just, you know, we'd talk baseball and this, but he was a very, very nice gentleman.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

As you said, great gentleman. Yeah, and you now came out of, and I I know I'm not gonna pronounce this right, ter Terra Hort, Indiana? Or how do you pronounce that properly?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Terra Haute. It's French, it means high land. Haute means high, terra means land. And um Yeah, I I was born there in 1943 and I started playing baseball I think in any kind of league or whatever, about uh I must have been eight or nine. But I didn't I I pitched maybe an out or two outs. I I didn't pitch a lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Did you always want to be a pitcher or did you start out in the position?

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I wanted to be a pitcher because God, I I couldn't run. I was slower than crap.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

Did you find that well there are a lot of lefties back? So I'm I'm lefty too, and you know, I think we're a special people, all right. Any any lefty will tell you so. Uh, was there a lot of uh left-handed pitch? I don't know. Did you pitch or play against many lefties?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

I just I it you know, I statistics mean nothing to me. I I wanted to get the ball, go to the mound, pitch, like I said, pitch as long as the opposing hitters would let me. If they would let me go nine innings, I went nine innings. If they got me out earlier, I I was out of the game earlier. But I pitched and I enjoyed pitching, I had fun pitching, and I would do whatever I could do to keep that going.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

And you were a true workhorse just by your stats showing it. If you you were pitching nowadays, yeah, like five, six innings.

SPEAKER_02 14:00

I was a workhorse, but I was a Clydesdale.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Okay, well, that's that's a that's a good one, right? So you would have probably 250 more starts if you were pitching in the last decade or two, with the way they take everybody out, and we have specialized relievers and closers. It's just, but that just wasn't the thought back then. Like you said, you took the ball, you went out, and you you didn't stop until you won the game.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

Yeah, that that's right.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

And to that point, when when they when you look online and they compare you to others, um after you, Tom Glavin, I see his name come up a lot, right? Glavin can he didn't he didn't whiz the fastball by you at a hundred and you know, two miles an hour, he just knew where to put it to get you out, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:47

So exactly.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Exactly. And that's that's really that's that's all it's about, just get getting them out. So if you if you got the call tomorrow from the uh the hall of fame committee, which hat would you wear into the hall of fame? Which team?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

I do not get to choose that the hall of fame does oh really?

SPEAKER_00 15:12

I thought it I thought it so is the player that picked it. It's the hall of fame.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. It's the hall of fame. They tell you what hat you're gonna wear.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

All right, well, just whisper into my ear, and if it was your pick, which one would it be? Or do you not want to share that?

SPEAKER_02 15:31

I'll share it. It doesn't make any difference. I I had I had some great times with the Dodgers, especially with La Sorda. But um probably I would wear a Yankee hat.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Interesting, very interesting. All right, now let's uh let's spend us let's spend a few minutes. And if uh Mark, we'll go if you want to introduce yourself and we'll talk about some of Tommy's cards in your collection. Uh we have a good friend of mine here that's also uh guest host today. It's Mark Turner. Mark, you're uh you're an avid card collector and good friend of Tommy. Why don't you give us a little quick introduction about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Uh yeah, so um years ago, um I was collecting and dealing in vintage cards, mostly sporting uh 1910, 1911 sporting life cards. Um those cards were comparable to the TO T206 cards, not as popular, but it still had Honus Wagner, um Cy Young, and uh all the big players back then. Uh and then the market was doing really good, and then in 2008, with the downfall of everything, the market crashed, like totally crashed. Um, so I kind of got out of it. And then when I met Tommy a few years ago, I got back interested in getting trying to get I have 99% of his cards right now, trying to get every year from uh 63 to 89. Um, there's maybe one or two that I still have to get, and I'll get them eventually, but I'm looking for the high grade ones, like eight, nines, and tens. So they're all graded. Uh, and I also have baseballs uh from him that he signed for me, and he he he graciously graciously signed baseballs for family too.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

So you said 63, so he we have his 64 tops, right? Rookie cards with him and Bob Chance on it.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

It came out in 63 for 64, so yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

So that's his first card, and I know you have a bunch of them.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

A bunch of them, yep.

SPEAKER_00 17:54

And then uh what would you say is your next favorite card that you have of his?

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Um, I like the Kellogg one. That one's pretty cool because there's not many of those.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

So that's the 1978 Kellogg's 3D superstar card.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

Correct, yes, because a lot of kids, I don't know if they came in the Kellogg, the box, or they cut them out of the box. I I don't have the card with me, it's at my house, but uh uh I have a few hand cut cards uh that people would cut by hand, so they must have been on the box.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

And uh I think yes, and to that point, the the Kellogg's card, the 3D card came in the box. That was an actual card. But they're also, I'm not sure, and Tommy might know or not. I remember back in the 70s cutting the cards off of the bottom of Twinkie boxes. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure if Tommy uh had one of those, but I I have a few of those that I cut and still have like that. Yeah, but yeah, what what um so we have that, we have his uh again when we look at them by decade, we have his 77 Dodgers uh card, which you can see on the screen. Yep, and then we have the 80, 1980 Yank Yankees Tommy John card.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

And I believe his last card is the 89 Topps, right? Tommy John.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Yes, that's the last one Topps did, but back, I mean, back about four or five years ago, they started doing Legends and um limited edition legend cards. And I have some of those. Um, I could I could get you better pictures because I know when I took a picture of them, they're laid out in my closet. Um, I don't know how good you got those pictures, but there are a few uh 2021 to 2023 cards that just do throwbacks just to show like him from it's called legends, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Well, the one I have on the screen, the 94, 1994 Upper Deck All-Time Heroes card, right? But him in black and white there. Uh, that was the last one I found online, but you have others that you shared.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

I have I have ones from I think 2021 to 2023 that I believe topps did uh for uh legends. I I guess they call them legends, but when I get home I could I could see better.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Okay. And uh ask Tommy how he feels about it him still showing up on baseball cards every now and then on legend cards.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Yeah, you're still on baseball cards, Tommy.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

One thing. Now you mentioned yeah, you mentioned you have a uh ball, uh some balls of his. Why don't you give me some information on that?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, so I have a ball uh he gave me, or Cheryl and him gave me that. Um last year he had 50 of these made for his 50th anniversary of the surgery. And um Cheryl gave me, he signed the number 20. Sorry, he signed the number 25 four for me, but he kept the number 25 because that was his number through his career.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Okay. And what other memorabilia do you have there of Tommy's year?

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, I have another one. I think I bought this off eBay. It's from him in 1977, and he won 20 games in '97. So he signed it. Tommy John 1977, 20 wins.

SPEAKER_00 21:49

Very cool. Very cool. What about uh what else, Chef? You have any posters or uh no, I don't have posters.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

He does, he has a ton of posters about him and and Office. Um, one thing I do have to share before I forget, I asked him one time, uh, the 26 years that he pitched, how many times did a batter rush him and try and fight him? And I think you said one or Dick McCallough. Yeah, Dick McCulloff. One batter. Imagine that in 26 years. Now you see it in almost a lot of games. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Dick McCall. Wait, who did he say was the guy he couldn't get out? Is it Dick McCall?

SPEAKER_02 22:30

I had a hard time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah. And that's the guy that rushed him. Yeah, yeah. Did you why did he rush you? Did you finally hit him because you're gonna get him out?

SPEAKER_02 22:40

Or no, I I don't know. I I I walked the first hitter, and he was batting second. And I walked the first hitter on like four pitches, and he gets in the batter's box, and I throw a ball, and it's high, and he backs out of the batter's box, and I see him mouthing me, and I said, Well, you don't like it, come on out.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

And he did. So he took that invite, basically.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, but imagine that in all those games, only one batter ushed him. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 23:30

And it's the man he mentioned was his toughest out. I mean, that's that that's that's entertainment right there. You can't make that up. Very close.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Uh yeah, that's all I got. I mean, uh now Tommy's been great. I went to his 80th birthday party and uh Bucky Dent.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Does he want to mention his bourbon at all?

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Talk about your bourbon. Well, we uh I don't know how it happened, but there's a bourbon out there. You remember the Field of Dreams, the sh the movie?

SPEAKER_00 24:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Well they was the old ball player that walked into the cornfield.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Uh Ray, well, the actor was Ray Lota playing shoeless Joe Jackson.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

That's that shoeless Joe, yes. And so they gave us, I don't know, 300 bottles of bourbon made from corn from that cornfield, and then on top of the bourbon bottle is the cork, and the cork's got my face and my likeness, my name, and all that.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

That is very cool, and it was delicious. Thank you for sharing it. I enjoyed it. Where where uh where do you get that? Is it online? Where do you buy that from?

SPEAKER_02 25:01

From here. From here. It's ours.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Oh, from okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Well, email email shirle dot zelden.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Okay. Is there uh do you have a website as well, or is it just uh an email?

SPEAKER_02 25:18

No, just an email to her, and she'll got it.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Okay, I will share that. All right, well, we're gonna get close to wrapping this up. Tommy, it has been a pleasure. Is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience uh before we go? Something that might have popped into mind.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

No. All right.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Well, all right. Well, that's it. I want to thank the audience for joining us for this very special episode and stay safe out there.