2 Vintage Sports Guys - Episode 17

Episode 17: Join Joe and special guest host, Chris Gilbert, as they discuss MLB standings, specially commissioned baseball cards, and cards from the UK. Rest in peace, Ted Turner and Bobby Cox. 

Watch the video:

https://bzzr.com/profile/EwjIXH8NQJbDYtvgfxe27PE3BQ53?watch=true&videoId=w1SO3mUYC9bnGkOM0FYT

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome back to Two Vintage Sports Guys. This is your host, Joe Rendacci. Uh, Paul is still traveling and about. I brought in uh a return as a guest host, uh, Mr. Chris Gilbert. Chris, give us your little introduction.

SPEAKER_00 0:24

Hey, Joe. Uh, thanks for having me. Um, and it's good to be back. You know, it's interesting. I think it's been maybe a month, uh a little over a month since I did the last one, and some things have definitely changed.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

Oh, okay. Well, do tell what's changed.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Well, I think you know, you and I were talking a little bit offline about some of the win percentages. And, you know, I think you made the point, which is a good point, that it's it's May.

unknown 0:47

Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Okay. All right. So uh let's jump in. Let's let's let the audience know. We're talking about baseball. We're gonna leave with baseball, and it's been a bit of a constant theme. We've been talking about this lately. We're uh, you know, 40-ish games in, and we're starting to see some teams separate themselves. Last as of a few days ago, there were only four teams out of 15 in the American League that had an above 500 record. The rest were all uh toiling under 500. So then you could say, well, with all the parity, what's going on? Are teams getting more parody-like in baseball, like football, or are they just finding their footing in bad weather in some of these cities? Or are they a rash of injuries and others? So let's let's take it from that approach. What's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 1:37

Well, I mean, you know, all good points, right? And and again, it is early in the season, but I I think you are starting to see, like you said, that some of the teams separate themselves from others. Uh the Braves, of course, and I'll I'll go ahead and say right from the open, I'm I'm a Braves fan. I grew up in Atlanta, so uh I do gravitate towards the Braves, but um, I was very optimistic about them, you know, two months ago. And uh they're starting to have some people come off the injured list to your earlier point. Uh so they're 40 games in, and I think some of their better players are you know getting back in the rotation. Um, they already have a great record, and you know, we talked a little bit about the win percentage record. Um there's some teams that are really standing out, and and Braves being um from an East Coast standpoint, certainly one of those with a I think a 0.684 uh as of the 12th. So yeah, they're win percentage.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

And they're playing what are they gonna be playing now? The Cubs, right? So Braves are 28-13, Cubs are 27 and 14. So we're gonna have a good uh three-game series there. And they're where they're in uh Chicago.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Yeah, and I think, yes, and I think you pointed out too that um you know the Cubs came off of two 10 10-game win streaks.

SPEAKER_01 2:47

Uh they just lost 10-game win streaks out of your first 40 games. Right now, I don't know if that says something about the Cubs or the quality of competition they're playing that people can't just like there are sweeps going on left and right in the for in the first third of the season so far. So what is that? Is it again, is it bad weather? Is it bad pitching? Is it bad hitting? What is it? Is it a combination of all of it?

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Well, I think the earlier point, we'll know by midsummer, we'll know by July 4th or a little later, but you know, it's interesting to note that the Cubs in 1906 held the win percentage record that year uh with something 0.75 or 0.76. Um, there's a lot of teams that you know have great percentage win records, but don't necessarily win the World Series.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

So uh Well, and and right, and that goes back to what we were talking about. Um, and to your point, the Cubs finished 116 and 36 with uh a 7.763 percentage in 19 uh six. Well, obviously that was a dead ball error, right? Up until Babe Ruth started hitting more home runs than uh most teams. But you and I remember really the last team was the 2001 Seattle Mariners, who finished with 116 and 46 for 7 uh 0.716. And what happened? They still got knocked out by that Yankee dynasty. Yeah because as I said, when you play a long season and you're good at beating bad teams, you could look like a juggernaut, but now the playoffs start and you're playing another good team head-to-head, right? Who makes the adjustments, who's healthy, and and and all the other factors. And I and I remember them you know, hating the Yankees, Mariners could not get past uh those Yankees. And that was the Mariner team that had Ken Griffey. I was gonna say that from Tino Martin, uh Edgar Martinez, Tino Martinez, no, not no sorry, Tino was on the Yankees at that point. Edgar Martinez, uh Ichiro was on that team. Right, that's right. Um that was a killer Mariner's team, and they still couldn't get past the Yankees. So uh, you know, uh and and then turn around and look at the Dodgers, who I think they're gonna three-peat this year because they're a traveling band of all-stars. Um they're playing okay right now, but you know, they're not killing it because they'll have some injuries, they'll run into some buzzwores, and then by the end of the season, they'll pull it all together, you know, and we'll see what they do.

SPEAKER_00 5:31

No, agreed, but uh, you know, I think to your point, it's gonna be later in the summer to we really get a better feeling, maybe the halfway mark um on who the leaders are really gonna be. And then, you know, it's always a question of when the teams peak. Um, but but I think back to the Braves, new leadership with Walt Weiss, uh, little change. It just seems like there's more zip in their step this year. Uh, they won it again. So we'll see. I I we you mentioned the injury list, and I I know I briefly mentioned it, but um, I think that's a good point, too. I mean, there's a lot of folks coming off uh injury, and uh it'll it'll be interesting to see how the summer rolls out.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Yeah, if you look at if you look at the standings right now, you have Tampa at 27 and 13, which is kind of a shock because they were bad last year. Whole thing with the stadium, they're playing well, but the rest of the American League East, Baltimore, 19 and 23, Toronto, 18 and 23, Red Sox after firing Alex Cora, 17 and 23. Cleveland is leaving the Central with a 22 and 21 record, and they're the only team above 500 in that central. And um, the athletics, the A's are just 21 and 19, the only team in the West above 500. So a lot of parody. And within these divisions, if it if it somehow stayed like this, you could see some team making the playoffs and winning their division with maybe 87 wins, right? Within their division. That they're not gonna have be any 90-win teams as far as that.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Agreed.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

And then the Braves, you know, Phillies, you fire your manager, you go on a little win streak, right? 19-22. I mean, I it's a long season. Can they catch the Braves? Sure. But I don't even think they worry about that with with three playoff uh wild cards.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, I agree. You just you just try to get in, right? And as the Braves have showed us over some years, when they've run away with the division and they stopped playing by early September, they got knocked out in the first round because they weren't hot uh and on a roll anymore.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah, I think I think to your point, it was the Phillies that knocked them out in in the first round uh that year.

SPEAKER_01 7:49

Two years in a row.

SPEAKER_00 7:51

Yeah, two in a row.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

And then the Phillies won. And the Mets knocked them out the next year with the Rock Wild Card team. Right. But I think you always have to watch the Marlins, right? They are Met killers uh forever and a day. Uh doesn't matter the record. If it comes down to the last three games in the season versus the Marlins, the Mets will blow that and lose two or three. And they did it last year. They didn't make the playoffs on the last game of the year against the Marlins, and they didn't deserve to make the playoffs. So I was fine with that. But they are actually still sitting the Mets at as the worst record in baseball, 15 and 25.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

And oh yeah, yeah. I know the result.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

I mean, you know how long it takes to recover to win 10 to your 10 games under 500.

unknown 8:41

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

Could they're not going on a 10-game winning streak, right? Right. So even if you won every series, like you won two out of three games, that's one game.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

One extra game, that's right. You need 10 of those series. That's right, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah, 10 series just to get back to 500, and it would take you two months, three months to win that, just to get back to 500.

SPEAKER_00 9:08

You know, if you do everything right, I mean to your point, if you do everything right, it would be two months.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

So yeah, it's so that's not gonna happen. But all right, so with the Cubs, Cubs and uh your Braves, which they actually are playing in Atlanta. Uh tell me some about some cards that you've uh you've had your eye on with that.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Well, I know I think the last time we might have talked about um some rookie cards and some prospect stuff, but um I've kind of settled back into uh, you know, and I guess I'll go here first, but I I really like what people like uh Juan Rosales have done, the artist sketch cards. Um, they've been really interesting to me this past year. And I I know I sent you a couple of those that uh that I have personally.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

I don't think any of them were braves, but um I just really like tell the audience who Juan Ronzales is.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Yeah, so Juan is a sketch artist and uh a professional artist, and he's one of, I don't know, maybe five or six artists that Topps has under contract, uh maybe a few more, um, to do one-on-one cards, uh their sketch cards. And some of them are pretty elaborate and and amazing. Um, they're all individual, they're artist proofs, and they come with a couple different series. I know the museum series has a few. I think I have one from that series or two. Um, but they're really I mean, to support independent artists, I think is is a pretty great thing.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

And I think tell me about those the um you sent me skeins and you sent me a shohei. So tell tell the audience about them as I'm showing.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

Yeah, so yeah, the shohei is um, I think it's more the angels helmet than it is the Dodgers helmet, but they do the samurai helmet. And um, that was just a really cool card. Um, the likes of which you really just don't see, right? It's it's very extravagant, uh, but it's all done by hand. It's it's done by uh in that case, Juan Rosales. And um his stuff, if you've not looked at it, is is pretty amazing. You can do a Google search on it. And uh he does, you know, basketball, um, racing, I mean, pretty much all the sports, uh, but the quality of his work is just phenomenal. And I think it shows up really well in the show card. Um and you know, it's something that's in my private collection. And I'd say the same thing about schemes. Uh, it's a museum collection card, uh, but the the artist work is just phenomenal, the coloring is phenomenal, and uh it just stands apart from some of the other things that you know you find in a in a um in a box of cards these days.

SPEAKER_01 11:31

So you're telling me these these are one of ones. This is it, this is the one card, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:35

Yeah, and they're done by hand. So, you know, again, it's um you know, good for tops for reaching out and helping the artist community uh to profit from the growth.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

So, how do you value this if it's one card? What's your comps on this?

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Well, I mean, as most collectors will tell you, there's so many one of ones of so many different series that uh it's almost lost its its uh appeal. But uh again, to have something that was hand-drawn that um you know is is a one-off. To me, that's what the collecting's all about. Uh certainly a player that you know you like or a series that you like. It's it's just it's really cool that they've um reached out and supported individual artists.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

So you could put this card up right now on eBay for pick a number, five grand, and see if anybody likes see if that's what the market bears.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

I mean, then that's it's the market bears. I mean, that's it. And because they're unique, you just don't know. At a show, I think it might do better uh if it was sitting out at a collector show rather than doing it online uh because of the uniqueness of it. But um 2500, you know, range would be my guess. Um maybe a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Let me ask you this with the skians one, right, that I have up on the screen. Uh you put it up there for 5,000. If somebody wants it, they buy it. If not, you lower it. I mean, it's is it literally where did you get it? Did you pull it out of a did you break it open in a pack? Or where did you so that's a great question?

SPEAKER_00 12:58

And one of one of the uh maybe call it an industry secret. Great question, Joe. Um, you can actually uh commission the artists to do certain works. So that museum piece is one. Now you can pull them from cart from decks, and I pulled uh two of the four that I own. I think I have four or five. So I pulled two of them. Um, but then I found out that you can commission the artist, and the artists will only have a certain number of blanks. But for you know, 300, 400, 500 bucks, it really depends on the artist and and maybe who you're having them, you know, what you're commissioning, but you can commission them to do the work.

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Okay. Well, as far as the two-way showing with the shohei and the skeins, did you commission? Did you pull it or did you buy it?

SPEAKER_00 13:41

It's funny, it's funny, and it's that's a great ask because the ones I pulled, I did not send to you. I pulled the ones I commissioned.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Um, because I Oh, so you actually commissioned the Skeens and this Shohei.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

I did. I'd I'd seen the Shohei once before uh with the helmet. Um, and I I'm pretty sure, don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure that for the artists, uh, they have to take an existing image. They're creating an existing image, they're not creating a brand new image. Um, so that you know would have been in another one of one of either a museum series or another series. But yeah, I commissioned Juan to do those. It took probably a couple months, three or four months. And I think they were in the four, three to four hundred dollar range, maybe a little, maybe a little more. Um, I think value-wise, they would be, you know, certainly north of that now. They're they're a couple years old. Um, but you know, again, like you said, it's with the market bears.

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Interesting. So I'm looking on it. I guess one doesn't sign these himself.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

He does, and I should have sent you the backs. Yeah, I should have sent you the backs, and I'll send you the backs of these so you can show the backs because it does say one of one, and you'll see the artist's signature there.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

And okay, yeah, I'll put that up to sign that too. Okay, very cool. And looking at you, you sent me uh an Akuna card. Why don't you give me a little backstory on what's special about this?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Yeah, so um, you know, and I'm not sure exactly which year they started doing this, but uh this was this was from a series uh called the UK edition, and uh you'll see the British flag on it. And um, I believe this one is a uh maybe 31 of 125, uh, but just a classic uh Kuna um image variation. Uh that's a pretty popular variation, but you know, specific to a UK edition card. Um, this is the black version of that card, and uh it's one that I ended up sending to PSA and have um you know have them uh go ahead and grade. Uh I wasn't necessarily thrilled with an 8.5, but I understand these cards don't particularly grade well. Um and you know, it's always nice to have one that's got a 0.5 in it from a collector standpoint. It's a little different.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

So yeah, I mean, if you take a look and people will go, well, what what is why is the UK selling US baseball cards when they don't have you know our teams or anything over there? And it's like anything else, there's a growing international market, and fanatics, you know, slash tops, uh, are have been expanding in Europe since uh the pandemic. And um with the influence of the MLB London games, right? Some teams go over to play in London for a series to show them what you know they're missing per se. And um that is growing. So it is interesting to see the cards. I I'll have to look into the numbers to see how the card collection is going over there. But these specialized UK edition sets with uh Union Jack logos. Right, right. Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

It's just a different look. And and you know, for those who who really love the card images, um, and I'm one of those, you know, I've seen that image before, but to have it on a on a UK-based card is just a little different. And and I think, like you said, it probably started around the pandemic, but you know, the Braves were on TBS for um 30 years, and I think that's part of the you know the fandom that they have in Europe and um certainly in Asia, that uh you know, they were they were an international team. My family lived in Singapore in the 90s, and I would watch Brave Braves games um from Singapore because it was on TBS. So baseball became somewhat international, you know, I think because of TBS, but now uh you know, since 2020, I think that's kind of perked back up again. And to see these variations, it's kind of cool. It's something something different.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, and and they did try in 80 in 1988 and 89 to make baseball and football products for the UK market, but it it didn't sell well at that point. Yeah, but you know, it's before the superphone computers everybody's carrying, all the global satellites, all the streaming. To your point, in 1988, TBS heck, I don't even think I had cable until 1990, right? So in New York, for me, it's ABC, NBC, CBS, the three big networks, right, and then the local channels, five, nine, and eleven. Mets were on nine, Yankees were on 11, and PBS was 13, I think, back then.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

But yeah, but a lot of the listeners say I may not remember when you know when we had that those few channels, but in 1990 and 1991, to be able to sit around and watch a full Braves game in Singapore was you know it was kind of cool. And uh those players had international recognition. Um, you know, to this day, there's a lot of players that came out of that, you know, Deion Sanders and um, you know, I'm an Otis Nixon fan, and uh there's a lot of uh great players that you know got international recognition because of TBS.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

So and WGN with the Cubs, right? Those were the two super those were the two super stations. I remember again prior to cable.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Well, I had a well Harry Carey became a household name, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Because when I first got cable, uh, you know, if if the game was on, you know, if I was trying to follow the Mets and I could watch it on WGN if they were playing the Cubs or W you know TBS if they were playing the Braves. And yeah, and maybe that's what led to them trying it in 88 and 89, because that's probably when cable, at least in the US, was just starting to come around into all the houses, right? So they they probably tried uh a UK market. You should probably look for some of those cards to see if uh if you can find the 88, 89 uh tops UK cards.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

Yeah, and of course, I I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the death of Ted Turner this past week, right? Um, and Bobby Cox. Uh Bobby Cox, you know, being one of the best managers in baseball history. And of course, Ted Turner, who was a pioneer in getting games broadcast internationally, right? Um, he really he really led the charge on that. So two big losses.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

Yeah, I mean, say what you want. I mean, Ted Turner did a lot. I mean, between Creating CNN and uh the the Turner movie, uh the Turner Classics, AMC, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:10

I mean, he probably read a great story about Turner Classic movies uh this past week. If you get a minute, look that up. It's very interesting how he ended up starting that channel. They were they basically it was like he got all the rejected movies that uh weren't gonna be in the contract, and he made a channel out of it. So, you know, to that point, it ingrained in the Atlanta Braves culture is Ted Turner and Bobby Cox, of course.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

So, yeah, absolutely. And and I I forget what was the first movie he colorized that caused like fits.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

I want to say it was either Gone with the Wind or Wizard of Oz. I can't remember which.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Um was it well? Um yeah, I forget what was the first movie that he did.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah, I I you you might want to look that one up, but I think it was Gone with the Wind. It could have been Wizard of Oz.

SPEAKER_01 20:59

He definitely did Casablanca, It's a Wonderful Life, Maltese Falcon, Miracle on 34th.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

But I'd have to find um was it yeah, but it's kind of an error, and and again, I give him a lot of credit for making um baseball more of an international loved pastime because of what he did in the 80s and 90s. And anyone who lived that through that time, to your point about CNN, you know, it changed everything, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

I I'm when you were in the in the Iraq war, right? Thank you for your service, was when CNN went in and was like the first thing they broadcasted that made their name being on scene, you know, with with uh and I was interviewed once over there, and I'll tell you it was it was unique to have uh news people embedded uh in those times.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

It was very different. And um, you know, again, it's the end of an era for some of the folks in Atlanta.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah. Well, I mean, the Braves have continued to thrive. Uh, they've moved into the battery, right? They have the Whole entertainment dollar at play for them now. And um, you know, I I obviously as a med fan, I have and always will hate them, but I give them credit for their organizational front office. I give them credit for, like you said, Turner put that, put them on. And, you know, if you didn't live in Atlanta, but you lived in Alabama, Mississippi, Tennessee, Carolinas, you have no major league baseball team. That's right. And you pretty much adopt them, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:34

I would say the Braves are as big in Chattanooga as they are in Atlanta, for example. Chattanooga, you know, what eastern Tennessee loves the Braves. So uh, and again, back to uh Bobby Cox and and Ted Turner. They were, you know, in the South here, they were uh part of the establishment. And um I I remember reading recently that Bobby Cox had one of the better uh records in baseball history. Maybe he's fourth or fifth. Um, you know.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Well, he obviously killed it with the Braves from 91 on, right? Yeah, but he was he was already a manager um prior. And trying to remember where he was uh but he he um uh he started his managing career in hang on, let me uh let me just try to remember he well okay so he actually started with the Braves in 78. But he went 69 and 93. Next year in 79, he went 66 and 94. He got as high as 1980, 81 and 80, right? And then um it was pretty much downhill, and he went to to coach the Blue Jays for four years, and he actually uh 89 and 73 in both 83 and 84 for the Blue Jays, and he won 99 games in 85. So he did a good job, and without looking into it, I I don't know why he then did it matter.

SPEAKER_00 24:11

He is the fourth overall winningest manager in MLB history with 2,504.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

So I said, Yeah, but I can't remember why did he not after 1985, after taking the Blue Jays to 99 wins, he didn't coach again for five years until he went back to the Braves. So there's some behind-the-scenes stories that are.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah, there's something there's something there. Uh, but overall, um, again, I'm a little surprised. Connie Mack uh has the career record at 3731, but Bobby Cox is fourth with 2,504 wins in the career.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

So who's the top three?

SPEAKER_00 24:46

Uh Connie Mack is number one with 3731. Tony LaRussa, not a shock, 2884. John McGraw.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah, I was gonna say John McGraw. He he coached forever, and that's early 1900s.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

Yeah, you got it.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

That's like that's a hundred years ago.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

Then Bobby Cox and then Joe Torrey. So that sounds about right.

SPEAKER_01 25:09

I'm surprised Whitey Herzog wasn't in there. He was a thorn in my side and your side with the Cardinals forever.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Well, you can imagine. So top 10, uh, you got Sparky Anderson, Dusty Baker. There's that's not a surprise. Right. Um, Bruce Bucci. Uh no, I can't tell you I remember Bruce Bucci, but Houston Astros, Mets, and Padres.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Um, there you go. So all right, very cool. I didn't think I'd finish up with Bobby Cox, but he he deserves his due. Rest in peace.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

He does.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

All right. Well, we're we're gonna wrap this up. I want to thank uh Chris Gilbert for joining us and bringing some of his uh pretty cool cards and some some good stories behind it. So you've uh given us some stuff to look at here. I'll I'll make sure that they're showing when uh when you guys view this. And um that's about it. Say goodbye, Chris.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Appreciate you having me. Thanks, Jeff.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

All right, bud. Take care, everybody. Follow us, and we will see you on the next podcast.