2 Vintage Sports Guys - Episode 27

Join Joe and special guest Alan Slater, as they debate what happened in the World Cup final and what can be done to make Soccer more A.D.D friendly for the USA audience. Did I lose your interest already? 

https://bzzr.com/profile/EwjIXH8NQJbDYtvgfxe27PE3BQ53?watch=true&videoId=ensp77WNG68GlDLF69FK

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:07

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back to Two Vintage Sports Guys. I am your host, Joe Rendacci, back with another special guest, while um my other partner, Crime Paul, remains missing in action. Uh, but that's okay because it allows me to bring on special guests that are very well versed in the topic of each podcast. Today I bring in my good friend and buddy uh Alan Slater. Alan, give us a little uh quick bio on yourself.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Hey Joe, thanks for having me on the show. Uh my name is Alan Slater. Uh, I am a rabid soccer fan or uh proper football fan, uh, if you're British. Uh back in the day, I played, I coached, and I refereed. Uh, but out of those three, my favorite uh was being a goalie in high school, college, and after.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

So goalie, that was it. Well, what's the mentality of why somebody wants to be a goalie in either soccer or it's um ice equivalent hockey?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Well, uh as it was then and it is now, out of all 11 players on the field, uh goalies have to be a little bit crazy. Uh running into danger. Um it's uh uh they're they're probably one of the more wacky uh personalities on the field.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

That okay. Well, you're kind of the uh complete opposite of that. But maybe you were crazier at the time when when that happened. I did ask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's another podcast itself one day. I did ask a goalie uh back when I used to uh whatchall, be a ticket taker for the islanders back in the 90s, just so I get in and watch the games for free. I says, why? Why be a goalie? And the guy said, I like to feel like I'm the last line of defense to make the game, you know, the the to save the game. So I, you know, did you feel like that yourself? Like it was all on you, the last line of defense.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Yeah, and that's only half of it. Uh, you're the last line of defense, and you with the ball in your hands, you're the first line of offense as well.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Okay. I didn't think of it that way, but good enough. All right, so let's jump into. I know we're getting the magic brownie high uh of the World Cup is fading for most of us uh ADD Americans, right? We'll get to that in in a bit, but let's just recap the the last game. It was uh you know another go into overtime, 0-0, uh with with the only goal coming in the first 15-minute overtime. Give me your thoughts on that game.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, yeah. As you as you uh alluded to, uh Spain won the game uh 1-0 over Argentina. Uh the decisive goal was by Fair and Torres in extra time and the 106th minute. Um, Spain did a fantastic job. As close as that game may have been at 1-0, Spain dominated this game. Uh, they consistently exploited Argentina's right flank. You know, like any uh even in a military sense, you you're looking at your your opponent's weaknesses, and for Argentina, that was the right flank. Um, that was the weaker side of their formation. Um, to illustrate how dominant Spain was in this game, uh, after uh 90 minutes, uh uh Argentina did not have a single shot on goal. That's how good Spain's defense was. And Spain uh maintained 65% uh possession through that first 90 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

So yeah, I as just said, and um I had done a podcast right after it about the stats are just we're just chilling with no shots on goal at all, which is just again, we'll get to that. But um even the uh what did you say, or did you say what was the uh the the passing percentage? I know it was like two to one uh Spain passing versus Argentina.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

Uh yeah, the stats running out. Spain had 65% possession. That means they they really control the game. And uh you know, a one-nil game sounds close, but this was not close. And uh a lot of people, a lot of the pundits uh after the game, even before the game, was saying that Argentina's fortunate to be in this position because they have an older team and uh you know, heat on older players, such as myself back in the day, uh, heat has some really difficult effects on the human body after 90 minutes, let alone 90 minutes plus an additional 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So I I think I read where Argentina, I mean, basically they didn't they they didn't have the well, I guess it depends how you look at it, they didn't have the greatest World Cup, but there they were in the final minutes away from once again pulling it out potentially in penalty shots, which I think they were playing for, right? I think Spain was one and five in their last six penalty uh shot decisions, right? So obviously, I know I know after Spain scored, Messi had a few nice passes, right? Just missed and uh who was it that hit the post for Argentina?

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Oh, I don't I don't recall off the top of my head.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Right. So it looks like they had more offense after they were behind than they did most of that game. So, like typical football or even hockey, uh, do you think they were playing not to lose? And that's when you lose.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Right, right. Yeah, they they were definitely uh after uh there was an event in the 93rd minute. Um uh Enzo Fernandez from Argentina uh got a second yellow card, and a second yellow card means an automatic red card. So Argentina in the 93rd minute went down to uh 10 men, meaning if you take off the goalie, uh that leaves nine men. And Argentina went into what is uh called uh called a low block and to prevent uh Spain from getting another goal. And then Argentina's idea was to stop them from scoring more and then try to get uh get Spain on the counter. So a low block is where you take nine men, you put a row of five men uh uh fullbacks in front of the goal, and then you put four in front of that, closing the gaps between the back line of five, and you absorb pressure, you absorb pressure, get control of the ball, and then you try to counterattack. In Argentina, to my count, my memory, they did get two decent counterattacks going in that final, uh, those two 15-minute halves, but uh it didn't amount to anything.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah, and I I think I I don't want to say people are well, maybe they are forgetting it because I just don't really hear much mentioned that they were down a man, which obviously in any sport is a big deal, right? It's it's definitely a big deal in hockey with power plays and penalty kills, same thing again, soccer. Uh so, but yes, I think overall Spain was the better team, uh deserved to win. No problems there. You had wanted to talk about something about what's happened since and as uh recent as today with fighting. Give me a little uh insight info on that.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

But once uh I before we move into the discussion about what happened after the whistle, uh when Spain won, I do want to give a shout out uh to Argentina's goalkeeper, Emil Martinez. He was a fantastic shot stopper for Argentina. If it weren't for him, the game would have never gone past the initial 90 minutes. He was amazing, he only let one goal squirt in. Uh, but he had, I think, uh upwards of 10 uh critical shots stopped during the first 90 minutes. So a big shout out to him. He's fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

So okay, well, I'm sure I'll appreciate that. Go ahead. Continue.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

I have uh I have a special place in my heart for goalkeepers as we've established. Continue. So uh when the whistle blew, uh all the Argentina fans uh booed, and uh there were way more Argentinian fans at Metal Life Stadium than there were uh Spanish fans. But um what happened after the whistle blew? And as Spain, the bench players were coming onto the field to celebrate, uh, Spain's captain, uh his name is Rodri, ran onto the pitch because he got subbed off uh before the end of the game. Rodri ran onto the pitch to celebrate with his teammates, and an Argentinian defender named Nahul Molina punched Rodri in the stomach. Okay, and that that got it started. Then a fight broke out at midfield where Argentina's Leandro Perez uh grabbed Spain's Eric Garcia by the throat, and this was on video. Um, photographers got pictures of this, and um in a matter of about 10 minutes after 15 minutes after the game stopped, um, Argentina went from a World Cup hero, even though they did not win this game. They went from hero to zero in just a matter of minutes. And uh it was to add insult to injury, Argentina turned their backs on the Spaniards when they were having their trophy and medals presented to them. It was just an uh abhorrent display of sportsmanship. And Joe, it was so bad that as of this week, 24 million people have signed a petition around the world to ban Argentina from the next World Cup. 24 million people.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

That won't happen either way, but that's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah, Argentina will not be banned, but FIFA's still waiting to hand the uh the punishment down for the players that were punching and kicking the Spanish players, and to add insult to injury, because the the referee, I mean, it's just like uh a player on the field. You have to play your best in order to get onto the field of Spain or Argentina, and if you're not at your best, you're on the bench. Same thing goes for uh FIFA referees. So the FIFA referee is a guy named Slavko Vinnick. Uh, he has been the most consistent and the best referee the entire World Cup because of all the grief that he got for letting the game get away from him with the fights that happened and the penalties that were never called, he actually ended up retiring from FIFA refereeing today. Wow, breaking news. That is how bad the fallout from this getting out of hand has been.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Yikes. Okay. Man, I didn't see that anywhere. Uh it didn't pop up on my phone. I didn't really see anything about that. All right. Well, thank you for uh breaking that on the show. All right. Um let's wrap this up with a little debate between me and you. You are a purist of the game, as uh you've described being wanting to be a goalie from back in the day. Um, I wouldn't know the soccer rules if like you fed them to me on a spoon. But as I watch the game, like most Americans, and we're all ADD in 2026 and have little patience for slow anything. How is this game not changed or adapted like other major sports in the US? And and let me let me give you the example and then you could um give me your reply. People like to say, I saw some I saw a uh British guy on ESPN talk about how, well, baseball can have one-nothing pitcher duels that you people, he's talking about us, love, you know, in the US. Which is a valid point, except I think that line was more valid 50 years ago than it is today. I don't think uh Gen Z care about baseball like we did back in the day. I don't think many people can sit through nine innings of baseball anymore. Uh they just monitor scores on their phone and put it on if it's close or interesting or late in the game. So that's as far as baseball. Uh I'll skip football because they've made a lot of changes. Basketball implemented a three-point shot 50 years ago to make it more interesting, put more points on the board. And then hockey, closest equivalent to soccer, even though they haven't made major changes during the game. Don't forget it used to be uh overtime, used to be the same end of a tie, which used to drive everybody crazy. So, what did they do? In an overtime, they went to a three-on-three for five minutes, which opens the ice up, and a lot of games are decided there. And then if not, it goes to penalty shots for exciting somebody wins, right? And somebody loses. So that's my case for why don't they take at least one guy off the field in soccer during the whole game? And if you even don't like that, why not take why not make the first 15-minute overtime sudden death? If you score, you don't need another 15 minutes, or and or in that overtime, why not take at least one guy off the field? And again, open it up and try to make it a more exciting scoring. So that is my case, pleading on to the court. Debate all of it.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yeah, I I'm not opposed to sudden death, what you suggested. That's just not where they're at. Uh, sudden death would make a lot more sense, especially when you're playing in 105 degree heat. Amen. It that it when you go into extra time beyond the beyond 90 minutes and you're in those two 15-minute periods, uh, the first team that scores wins. Done. Don't, you know, don't don't drag it out. Uh, but but FIFA has uh instituted some new rules. It like uh every sport that you just mentioned in the quest to have accurate calls. That's where the video assistant referee or VAR has come into play. Uh they you know, they make a call. Uh the video assistant can actually stop play from the booth and um and uh uh get the referee, the field referee over to the side and say, hey, you missed this. So there's that effort. But there's also uh they instituted FIFA instituted this right before the World Cup. But uh as a lot of people know, uh soccer players, uh, I think the official term is uh embellishment when they take a little nick and they go down and writhe in pain on the grass. The unofficial that's called embellishment by the referees, the fans call it flopping.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

No, no, that's called Academy Award-winning performances.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

I'm not gonna disagree with you. And by the way, the first person in uh the World Cup that got one of these red cards for for flopping or embellishment was Atlanta United's captain. Um oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And you call yourself an Atlanta United.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

He's uh he's our captain.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Kicksaving at Beauty. How's that? Pro play.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

He played for Paraguay. Uh, and and Paraguay did a great job in the knockouts. They beat Germany. And Germany is a big soccer name, so hats off to them. But but uh uh he got a uh got a red card for embellishment. So what they're trying to do is they're trying to create a situation where there's less flopping. If it is, they're gonna get a yellow or maybe a red card. Uh, if somebody goes down for an injury, uh they give it a the referee holds their hand up and gives them a five count, five seconds to get up, or they have to go off the field for a couple of minutes. Also, if the if the goalie, if the ball goes off the back line and the goalie's taking his time, wasting time to put the ball back in play to give the other team a chance, the referee holds up that hand and gives them a five count to get that ball kicked off. So they're trying to, in a baseball type of way, they're trying to speed up the game.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Okay.

unknown 17:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

So is there's acknowledgement that there should be something done to make this different. Is that what I'm hearing?

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Yes, they're they're they're trying to they're trying to listen. You know, soccer's an old game, very old game, and they've been slower to change compared to some of the other sports, but uh they're they're trying to accelerate the change and make it uh make it better for the fans.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

So do other countries feel like I'm saying, or do they just think I'm crazy? That's the way it is, that's the way it's always been, it's the way it's always going to remain.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

Uh Joe, they think you're crazy.

SPEAKER_01 18:08

Well, okay. So that I probably should have framed that better. Outside of the context of regular life, for this soccer point I'm trying to make, do they agree with that generally globally, or it's just fine the way it is, and you silly Americans and your ADD have no patience?

SPEAKER_00 18:25

No, I I think there's a general recognition around the globe that there is a need to make some changes in the game. Uh I I or if I not changes, definitely some tweaks. And uh these rule changes that came into play right before the World Cup started. Um, you know, it's uh it's FIFA's attempt to uh fine-tune the game, you know, for this next uh this next period. Um, you know, between and uh what I mean by period is the next four years between this past World Cup and the next one.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

So let me throw you a cardball that uh maybe you know, maybe you don't, just to mix metaphors on sports, uh, because I don't know enough of it yet. So for FIFA and for the, I think it starts sometime late 27, that then the three-year run of all the different conferences and play and games and plays and everything they have to do to be ready four years for the next cup, they're all under, I guess, one set of FIFA rules. Right is that correct? Okay, so then my question is for all the other types of leagues, a la MLS here in the US, I don't know all the one different ones globally. Do all of those MLS and their equivalents across the globe have any different rules that are stark enough to mention? Or are they all the same?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yes, they they do have different rules, uh slightly. So uh in the US and Canada, uh we've got MLS in Mexico, we've got Liga Meki, uh, we've got EPL, uh European um Premier League in in the UK, uh you've got Bundesliga in Germany, etc. Uh the the rules are there are slight differences between all the different leagues, but when when countries play, uh all those people rules are the same globally.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. But I guess what I was getting at, do you know of one different rule in any of those per-country leagues that you think is stark enough that let's just say MLS should implement anything that makes the game quicker, faster, score more, or something?

SPEAKER_00 20:47

The the only thing that I know that's different over here compared to the rest of the world is the salary cap. No, not the money, the game itself. Yeah, just in the game in the game itself, yeah. I was trying to think. In the game itself, there's nothing, there's nothing that different.

SPEAKER_01 21:03

So nobody everybody plays two 15-minute um overtimes and goes to the penalty shots. Everything is the same.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Well, no, the the two 15-minute uh periods, if it's if it's uh tied at the end of 90 minutes, that's only for World Cup because in a final you cannot have a tie. You have to have a first and second place, right?

SPEAKER_01 21:26

But there's this the two 15 minutes that are not sudden death. Is that the same in FIFA for the World Cup and all their different qualifying countries? Uh, is that the same? Again, don't follow it enough. MLS, what does MLS do? Same thing?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

Yeah, in a final scenario, yes, I believe it is two 15-minute uh periods after the initial 90 minutes if it's tied, but that's in a final where you can't. It's not in the regular season, no.

SPEAKER_01 21:59

Oh, I'm asking in MLS, what is it in the regular season at the end of the 90 minutes when it's tied?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Oh, well, it's similar to hockey. Uh, you lose, you get zero points. You tie, you get one point, you win, you get three points.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

Oh, okay. So there's no overtime. There's no overtime.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

No, you just move on to the next game, and each team gets a point. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:22

Uh that's bad 1990s hockey. That's what they gotta fix. That was what hockey was up until they implemented the three on three and then the shootout.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

Well, yeah, that's a case where you're a lot more familiar with the hockey rules than I am at.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

Yeah, so see, I mean, we ebony ivory, we meet in the middle and we agree, and we did a great job there, and that's where we're gonna end it on. Very good conversation. I want to thank Alan for joining us. He gave us a little uh breaking news on the uh little after post-game uh activities from what happened there. And um we we debated it. So I think you're kind of in agreement then that you wouldn't mind seeing some changes to maybe open it up a little more and present a little more scoring.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Yeah, for sure. I mean, uh your idea about taking if you go past the first 90 minutes taking a guy off of both teams, and then after five minutes taking another, that's very that's very intriguing, Joe. You're uh you're ahead of your time, I think.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

I'm intriguing. I can't spell intriguing without a spell check, but I am that. All right. All right. Anything else you want to say uh before we we leave the crowd?

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Uh just thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

All right, fine. All right, guys, follow us and stay tuned for the next one of Two Vintage Sports Guys. Have a good one.