THIS IS RAW. Stop Qualifying yourself. Be you, no matter what!

The Ryan Luelf Show gets raw, real and emotional at times, this episode is no different.  Watch & listen as Ryan jumps all over Barlow & Chas for always qualifying his statements.   There is a hard lesson learned here for both and perhaps you too!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

This is the Ryan Lulf show. Let's go.

SPEAKER_01 0:10

She's like, I just need that 15 more minutes. You look great. Like, you look fantastic. Let's go. Well, then she felt like I was rushing her. Ruined the entire night. Never made it to Andrea Bacelli.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

You never made it? Never made it. What the what? Yep. It was one of the best concerts of my life. Shut. Way to rub it in, Chaz. That's when you text a friend named Ryan Love and say, would you like two tickets? To go to Andrea Bacelli? Yeah. That I've never even heard of and don't even know who you guys are talking about.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Oh my god, there's one song that he has. What's that song called, Chaz? Time to say goodbye? Yeah, Time to Say Goodbye. That is just good stuff, man. It just takes you into a different atmosphere. Yeah. Completely. And the the version that he sings with his son, have you heard that one?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

Once again, we present Andrew.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

You're welcome. Thank you, James. Thank you, James.

SPEAKER_03 3:02

Until libraries.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yeah, that's great. That's awesome. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

Let's get those red point set as off.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah, good call.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, let's get those off.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

Excellent. Feeling good with that?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

Yeah, I like the break.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Awesome. I like it. Looks good.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

Check how you have that uh mic coming down like a boom too. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:02

Yeah. That was the whole angle right there.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

So good. Cool. Thank you. Thank you for that on Dorothy Shelly. Man, I need to listen to this guy more often.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

It's crazy, right? I swear to God, Eli was was created from this song. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Oh, we're getting into it, aren't we?

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah. Oh no. Yeah, Eli was definitely consummated during this uh that song.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, it just immediately shifted me internally.

SPEAKER_01 5:36

I can just like, wow, the vibration of it is well, I was gonna say it's uh it's probably not your style of music that you typically listen to. Uh I I liked it though a lot. I'm like, oh, I need some more of that. Well, I just it it has this like I think you nailed it. I think it has this vibration to it where it's just inner tranquility, and you know, you're not gonna sing as good as him, so you just listen and you just feel the music, you feel the vibration, and it just for me, it just oozes just peace. And you you summarized it.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yeah, it really sucks you in. It's like an invitation to just set everything else aside, everything else down. There's uh nothing to do but to absorb. Yeah. And how often can we say that life sets us up to just absorb?

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah, and yeah, and we're and we're all too busy to absorb sometimes, and sometimes that is the medication, that is the prescription, that is the theory that heals us.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Absolutely, without a doubt. I mean, I just keep coming back to it over and over and over again. Stress, busyness, on the go, stimulated, consuming, screens. And I feel like a lot of yeah, I feel like a lot of people, even myself, like yeah, I know. And yet I'm still doing all those things a lot.

SPEAKER_01 7:23

But probably not as much?

SPEAKER_00 7:25

Yeah, not as much, but still there's a sense of whether it's I can't live without I'm I'm hooked. I mean, I can think of a few times in the last year or so where I've taken like a like a week or two and just completely, you know, other than just a check a text message or an email or something important, like a phone call or whatever, I just unplugged from my phone. I didn't get on social media, I didn't allow notifications to bother me. You fundamentally feel different. Yeah, it it's unreal the new things that begin to show up, the new thoughts that begin to occupy your mind. Like it's it's essentially like living in a whole different world.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

And you know what's sad is our kids, your kids, my kids, Chaz, your future kids, they're never gonna know that feeling of operation without screen time. You know, you and I grew up in a time where going outside was what we did in our free time. That's how we were stimulated. We built relationships by riding bikes. We knew who's who was at whose house by whose bike was in the front yard. We came home when the sunset and the street lights and the neighborhood came on. Like the kids, our kids, they don't understand that. And and it's not that I'm getting older and I'm an aggravated, old, agitated man. It's that I'm sad. I'm sad that they'll never understand that freedom. They'll never understand that level of just go do life and and be face to face and get a little dirty and bleed a little and drink through the water hose. And we all survived.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Yeah, see, I feel like I'm the last in my generation to have even gone through that. Like, I remember you know, going outside till what, like, you know, 7 that 7 30. It didn't even matter what time the lights came on, and you could just automatically come home after that.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

And you know, my dad used to whistle too. Like, if I didn't come home, yeah, if I didn't come home when the lights were yeah, he'd he'd whistle.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Was it Herbert whistle?

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Uh well I get you're such a shut up.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

I I I think they will actually experience it. I do because I think it's fundamentally built into the DNA of being human connection, aliveness, presence, it's always there. Whether or not we tune in or we make ourselves available for it, that's a different question. But it didn't go away just because we have technology and screens. And in fact, when this generation gets so far disconnected from themselves, from connection, from what their soul longs for, from nature, it's going to be quite the coming home party because of the contrast that they'll have experienced. It it will be orgasmic to have these to have these moments, and and I'm I'm seeing them and recognizing them. I mean, to just sit with a friend or one of my children or a business partner, definitely my spouse, to just have time, no phones, face-to-face, no phones, no distractions, no sense of we gotta cut this short, or we gotta go, no real agenda, just allowing life force itself to show up and take the moment, the conversation anywhere it wants to go. Like, thank you. There's just nothing like it. Right. There's nothing like it. Thank you. I long for it on the daily. Yeah. I really do. Connection. And I think everyone would long for it if they got unplugged long enough to realize they do want that. And a lot of people think they don't want it, but I think it's just because they've trained their nervous system to be addicted to all the other well, and it's and I don't think that I don't think we realize how healing it is to the body to get away from the dopamine fix.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

But you know, there's a there's a huge thing right now going on. Chiz, you might know about this, but flip phone cell are at an all-time high right now. You know why?

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Why?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

People just want a phone, they don't want the screen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

They're doing that for kids too. Yeah. It's it's pretty wild. Yeah. Like, I I think if I read correctly, they're making like a flip phone with like three functions on it. You can call mom, dad, and one other person. Emergency, I think. And that's it.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

You know, before we get too deep into this, I think we need to take a little moment. And, you know, the Ryan Love show has evolved over, you know, five or six episodes. We're trying to give content that is dynamically different, more importantly, life-changing. The chemistry of the content and how we present that content is super, super important. Throughout the first five, six shows, we uh we were privy to someone who you typically don't hear or see much. Um, his name is Chaz. Uh, he's the board operator, he's kind of the producer of the podcast. Um, and you know, you see a lot of podcasts with the sidekick or the person in the background who chimes in every now and then. I think that discredits Chaz and what he brings to the table, but I do want to introduce Chaz Tackett uh to the podcast. He's going to be an official voice and face uh uh, you know, involved in the conversation. And and I say that because the other night, Chaz, we were just kind of doing an off the cuff after one of the episodes, and Chaz lights into, you know, some of the conversation that we're having, uh, some of the thought processes, thought processes, the philosophies, the theories, and really brought a fire, I thought. And so I just looked at you and I said, we've got to have Chaz involved a little bit more than just punching buttons.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

I'm happy to do both.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Well, I think at the end of the day, when you live in real freedom and you are more interested in reality than the one you conjure up in your mind, you're always just excited to see where anything might go and how it might unfold. Sure. And I just don't have much resistance to life itself. And that includes, you know, yeah, we didn't even know what the show was going to be called. And then we had one name, and then we were throwing around a few other names, and then we landed on the Ryan Lelph show, and we weren't sure if Brian, you were gonna be, you know, tag teaming with me or involved or how it was gonna be. And then all of a sudden we had this dynamic duo chemistry, and then the next thing you know, you're sharing about kind of your dreams and what you've wanted to manifest, and I'm like, who knows where this thing's gonna go? And then all of a sudden, because of the opinions and the voice and the things and the topics and the stuff that I'm interested in sharing and talking about, which is basically any fucking thing you can imagine, sure, there is nothing off limits on the Ryan Love show. Right. Because at the end of the day, we're talking about being human and evolving and evolving. Yes, and so every single aspect of our humanity is worth discussing. And I thought it was just so beautiful that when we decided to do the off the cuff episode, Chaz, who's been sitting here listening, on fire, he's been back in the back on fire. He has. He had some pushback, he had some questions, and I feel like what it really ultimately led to was such an amazing point of clarification that so often in communication, words fall short. I absolutely love the idea of us giving language to our human experiences, but I think it's so healthy to realize that often what I'm communicating is not what another person hears.

SPEAKER_02 15:59

I think that's kind of what I ran into for a long time. Because I mean, I'm sitting back here, you're using words like frequency, essence, vibration. Yeah, right. And, you know, just so everyone on the podcast just has a little bit of context about me. I have been an evangelical Christian my entire life. I am about to get married at, you know, 28, not almost 29, because I'll be 29 here in a couple weeks. Um, and my fiance is Catholic. So I've had to almost completely flip the scripts on what I understand as, you know, faith.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

Chaz, how weird is it to punch the buttons with you on the right screen now?

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Well, I think our viewers could kind of see it. It's it's interesting, but it's fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Well, and I think I, you know, to your point, Ryan, I think, I think you're allowing the podcast to be an example of how you coach men. You're you're telling them to be the truest, most authentic version of themselves, which means kind of like just being open to whatever may come, letting stuff enter, letting stuff releasing stuff. Let you know, I think the podcast has been a culmination of exactly that. Right. Like we had a we had an original vision. Whenever I pitched you the original podcast, I was about 60 to 70 70% certain that it was just gonna be you with maybe some content from someone like Chaz in the background.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

What was the problem with punching in and coaching? Even just stopping the show, like, hey, what if we tried talking about this or you know, going somewhere different? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah, and so and then and then and then I thought, you know, after we did some discussions, I thought, man, maybe maybe I should offer my talent to transition, my sarcasm, my ability to think and be open, which is much like your preaching. Maybe I would be an a preacher now. Yeah, and a damn and a damn good one. Fair enough. Because he he fucking preaches on this set, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 17:58

You know, if you don't think you're not preaching, he gives a lot of great insight, and that's uh that's kind of one of the things I wanted to point to is like sitting here as a you know, not necessarily a converting Catholic, because I don't I wouldn't say I'm converting, I'm saying uh completing. And that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Sounds like converting to me. Well, I think at the end of the day, yeah, uh, you know, somebody asked me recently, like, what what are you after? Like, what's the end goal when you're coaching and working with men, with people? I said, you know what? I think at the end of the day, the way I would describe it is what would it feel like in your body to truly authentically be yourself, speak your truth, not have to dumb yourself down, and simultaneously live in harmony with those who believe and see the world differently than you. That sounds like a really fun world to live in. Or stressful for some people. Okay, fair enough. Elaborate.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

Well, I mean, I I think I think there are just some people that have a mental capacity that they have one channel, one vision, one linear thought process of thinking and and and and digesting words or behavior. And if and if and if A doesn't match up with B, then it it just it tends to add stress to those people who can't be open, wildly open. So I think, I think your biggest challenge, honestly, is going to be there are a lot of people that are BCD personalities that don't know how to accept or think. And I I'll even use chass as a chess has a very traditional upbringing.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

I was about to say that. I was just about to say, I feel like I'm the type A where you're gonna have to like clarify and then help me understand like what do you mean by essence, vibration, right? Because those are like I hate to say it like just like this, but it's a new age term, and I'm coming out of the framework of Christianity, right? So I have I have a certain lens that says, oh, well, that's you know, it can trigger when you say it like that. But when you got to the core of it in one of the previous episodes, what I actually heard you say was not something new age. You were actually talking about how there is a different way to operate in your day-to-day life, how you can transition from being to like in the layman's terms, a serious tone, right? Learning to get rid of the overperformance and learn to just be present, right? And I think that term I think we said was frequency, operating at a different frequency. And the way I heard that was not new age, I heard that as a level, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

I'd like to ask you a question, Chaz. Yeah. What is it about the term new age? First of all, what do you feel like, what does that actually even mean? And coming from the framework that you've come from, what is it about that term and those two words that seems to, I think you are handling it extremely well. So I don't want to necessarily say that you've been triggered, although it sounds like maybe you have in the past, but it's more why are people triggered and and what does that term even mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:22

Well, I'm not gonna claim to know everything about what you're talking about with like new age, like you know, because from my perspective, most Christians are not gonna say like words like vibration because it's almost and it's it's almost anti-Christ. It it negates the idea of who he is.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

Well, you're you're suggesting that that that's a Christ-like or Christ version, and there's only one Christ, and that's my God.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Okay, but uh but but here's my question though if you were to be able to step back from Any framework that any of us have been handed, and if we could for a moment put our guard down and and not feel like we're being attacked or that anyone's saying that we're wrong or the language that we're using is incorrect. Sure. To me, how is frequency or vibration any different than gravity or electricity? Like from my point of view, we're just simply talking about fundamental aspects of the universe.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

But I think the typical Christian response is that's not a frequency, that's not a vibration, that's God. That's Christ moving through your spirit, that's Christ moving through your aura. Right.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Well, and what I would say to that is is I'm okay with that. Like that's what you want to identify it as, right? Right. Like, I like I think it's beautiful. I'm not attached. Just I I think that's what it is. See, they're the ones I feel like that are attached to it having to be worded a certain way. Labeled. So this goes back to my point of people not actually hearing what people are communicating because it's being filtered through their lens.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

And that's the thing that's kept me invested so long. And it's it's weird to say that because you would think as someone like me, I'd tune out, except for the fact that I'm editing the show. No. Far from you asked me earlier, am I triggered? No, I'm fascinated. Because everything that you've gotten to it basically gets back to humanity. It doesn't get back to this idea of like, you know, oh, I'm a, you know, I am a god. Because you even said yourself, you don't see yourself as God. You see yourself as being in control. And that's what I've heard is you're talking about how guys can figure out how to be the uh kind of the steerer of the ship, right? It to it to a certain extent.

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Um Well, I just I don't know that it's um a wise way to go about living from a perspective that I'm a victim of life and that I just am at the mercy or the power of essentially what I would describe, I think most people when they think of the term God, I think a lot of people tend to think of that in the terms of like a deity or an almighty powerful creator. What are you saying?

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Diddy deity or diddy or daddy?

SPEAKER_00 24:11

Deity. P.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Diddy? What's P What?

SPEAKER_00 24:14

You two, I tell you what. P. Diddy. P. Diddy. Yeah, most people, most people must think God is P. Diddy. No, not at all. A deity in the sky, meaning like a P Diddy. Like I heard it put this way. He said, you know, white man has white god. Black man has black god. He says, cow has cow god, rabbit has rabbit god. So often I think what we have a tendency to do as humans is we create a god in the image of ourselves. And it was funny because this gentleman that was saying this, he's from India. So his skin tone and skin color is I would describe as brown. And he said, you know, at the end of the day, white men wrong, black men wrong. God is brown.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

I've never heard it said that way ever.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

And I feel like the reason that people are so triggered, like you only have to defend that which you believe you are absolutely certain of. When someone comes at me and says, I don't believe in new age, or I don't like the terms frequency or vibration, or I don't see it that way, I'm like, okay. Well, how would you describe what we're talking about here? What language suits you well? Like, so often what we're doing is we're projecting how we interpret something onto someone else, assuming they're doing the same thing. So, as I was mentioning a minute ago, a lot of people are very attached to the way in which they describe spirituality, a human, the human experience, what they believe in, and they don't know really what to do when someone says, Well, I think I know what you're talking about, but these are the words that I would use. I'm comfortable with any words. I mean, it doesn't matter to me because at the end of the day, what I am most interested in is I want to be tapped into that God, source, spirit, consciousness, energy, life force. I want to be tuned in to the presence of being fully alive.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Well, and I think, and I think, and I'm and I'm down with that. And, you know, we've we've we've experienced that at some level almost every single podcast that we've done. Right. You're gonna have to break barriers though. And and I think I think what Chaz and I are alluding to is I think the the biggest barrier is going to be the the men, the people.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Well, I I got news for you. I ain't gotta break no fucking barriers for no one because I don't really give a shit if anybody listens. Yeah. I don't and I'm not even saying that like, whatever. I really don't. Yeah. I am here to live liberated as to give permission for all people to be liberated. And if you're at a place and a season in your human journey that you don't have ears to hear or eyes to see, or a heart open to the self-expression of the Ryan Leff show, that's okay. It really is. Like I know it'll circle back to you at another point, potentially.

SPEAKER_01 27:27

Maybe. But but I think, you know, I think you're underestimating. I I wish I wish you um I wish you understood. You do, you do understand this, but I wish you were more excited about making sure we could get more people to listen and watch because the content, if you can tap into something.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Well, but I am though. It's a simultane, it's a dual thing. I I honestly don't care. And at the same time, anything that I feel like, like adding Chaz to the show, yeah, that could potentially help more people, not just tune it out and maybe give it a second and go, oh, I'm starting to maybe grasp where he's coming from. Ooh, this actually maybe could be helpful. Yeah. Of course I'm all for. So to me, it's not either or, it's both and.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Chaz, don't you think though, like the moment there's a lot, and man, you know, people that believe in in Christ, you know, they anytime they think that you're suggesting that that isn't real or that it could be something else, I think it's just it it they they dig their heels in. And so I'm I'm just I'm thinking out loud, like, how can we make sure that we get that person that might be on the fence, that might be intuitive like a Chaz, but also really super traditional. And they go, uh, he's one of those haters, you know? So I think I just trying to figure out like how how can we get, and I know you don't care, and I love that about you.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

I actually love that about you, but man, how do we how do we promote step one is we've all got to start understanding, as I've said before, we turn on the projector every single morning when we open our eyes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

And so You say stuff like that, and it just it it immediately makes sense. You know what I mean? And then you go start using Christianese and say, Oh no, I don't subscribe to that framework. Because do you do you recognize how earlier you said if you have eyes to see and ears to hear from the Ryan Lef framework, that's something that immediately catches the Christian. They go, Oh. So there is something here for me, I think.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

Well, I think I think there's I mean, I I live by the philosophy, everything's my teacher and everyone's my teacher.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

So you're constantly learning. That's what I heard you just say.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Yeah. And and to me, uh your word um fascination, uh, the moment that I shifted away from being threatened by people who saw the world differently than me or believed this is gold, this is gold from a God or spiritual standpoint that was different than me, to being fascinated, that that was a game changer.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Did you notice one thing I said uh from our off the cuff? You I think Barlow even said, have you been triggered?

SPEAKER_01 30:18

Yeah, to you.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

What is being triggered? Offense.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Offended, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yep. I didn't take offense to any of this, and that's the weird thing. Most Christians would, because they hear what you're saying and they go, Oh, that's that's not the Holy Spirit. That's not God. Well, what you're getting at is not necessarily the Holy Spirit or God, it's humanity. But it's packaged in those terms.

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Is the person actually taking offense, or is it the belief that they've been programmed to live under that's actually affecting it?

SPEAKER_02 30:43

The person. Because the belief does nothing. The belief is a framework. If the the belief can't dictate on a human level, it can only like I mean, I don't know how to perfectly wrap that, but it's the belief tells you what like this is the lane, right? You stay within this lane, you're good. But the second you get out of that lane, you need to guard your heart. Test the spirits.

SPEAKER_00 31:08

Yeah, but what human has tried to stay in a lane and has believed that if they believe exactly this one certain way and live this one certain way, what human in total brutal honesty is able to say, Oh yeah, everything in my life has worked out exactly perfectly according to me just following this T, following this line, driving down the stress.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

I would say most of them.

SPEAKER_00 31:36

I'd say they're lying through their fucking teeth. I agree with you. Really? Yeah. Oh my god. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

How so?

SPEAKER_00 31:44

All you gotta do is interview their spouse, interview their kids, interview people close to them that would say, Yeah, you live um in a bubble, you live in an illusion. Like how so? Well, it it to me it comes back to connection. Like, I'm always blown away at how many people think they have a really great connection, and then you like really connect with the person that they think they have a great connection with, and that person's point of view or perception is way different. I think it's very eye-opening.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

I think that's kind of the idea. There's most people are different, but the whole point of connection is not to be right, it's to be connected, finding that common ground, and that's what thing that makes the show so special is you're finding that like I think every listener is able to find common ground with what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

I think it's just hard to hear because the way you're describing it is completely you know, what are human what are humans going to do with the idea of not being right? It's not gonna be pretty Ryan.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Yeah, I don't I don't think the point is to try to be right. I I I don't think that that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 32:55

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying the need to be right, in my opinion, like comes from the ego. It comes from the identification of who I think I am as a human. I don't think it comes from our soul. Like when you're two years old, you don't have the need to be right. But as we grow in awareness and consciousness, as our subconscious is being developed, as we get older, as we're programmed, as we're conditioned, as we step into this human role and we identify more and more and more as our name, our gender, our nationality, our whatever religion we're raised in, sure, no religion we're not raised in, like we get more and more attached to the feeling of what are we if we were to come into new information and we were to sit with this information and then determine that how we had been seeing about it, seeing anything, God, Holy Spirit, sex, money, life, the sun, I don't care what it is, right? Like if we come into new information that allows us to go, I don't think I I think I was off base. I think I was wrong. Why is that so hard? Why is that so scary? What is it that people feel like is being taken from them or attacked that causes them to dig their heels in and double down, even though they're basically ignoring something going on deep within them that says, this isn't quite right, but I'm afraid to explore it because what if then I would have to say what I've been believing in or I've been investing my life in, or I've been giving my money towards, or I've been doing for however long. And by the way, the longer it is, the harder it is for people to make peace and let go of it.

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 34:44

Like I'm actually convinced there are a lot of people on earth that deep down actually don't still believe what they keep saying they believe. I agree. But they are so afraid of what they think would be painful to have to admit that for three decades they were passionate about something they don't even think is true any longer.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

So I've got to I've gotta interject here. This is exactly what I was feeling when I first met my fiance and then had to ask myself, do I really know my faith?

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Because what's the answer to that, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 35:20

The answer is I trust in God completely. And I'm not talking about you know, trusting in myself being the master of my ship. Um, my framework is I do believe there is a separate God from us. And I think one of the easiest ways I like to go back to it, if you look through um, you know, a famous theologian, you guys may may or may not know, Narnia guy, C. S. Lewis, he wrote a book called Mere Christianity. And in it, he's basically giving uh his interpretation as to who put the desires that we have in us, who determined that standard? How do we instinctively know what's right and wrong without having any other piece of information? Like, for example, if I said I know for a fact I'm not supposed to go over to that corner and break that chair, how do I know I'm not supposed to break that chair? Who told me it was right or wrong? Was there an instinct? Or was it something else? Like I didn't get any outside information. You know what I mean? How do I know to be nice? How do I know to be open-minded? Right?

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Who gets to determine whether you're nice or not?

SPEAKER_02 36:35

You do. But who put it there? That's the thing, is it didn't just happen.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

But what if your perception of yourself is that you're nice, but I talk to ten people that encounter you on a regular basis and they think you're an asshole and they don't think you're nice at all? Who's right?

SPEAKER_02 36:50

That's fair. I think what I'm getting.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

There is no reality, there's only perception.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

But what are we doing right now?

SPEAKER_01 37:01

Are we perceiving something or are we actually That's actually a That's actually a really good question?

SPEAKER_02 37:11

I think we live in reality.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Hold on, Chaz. God, shut up for a second.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

My God, you give him a mic and turns into the Chaz show. Everybody thinks a threesome is gonna be awesome, and then you have one and you're like, I'm not so sure about this.

SPEAKER_01 37:31

Second time in my life. We all know. But I think that's a really good question. Is you know, what is this moment? Is it perception or is it reality? Like and I I I'm actually I think all three of us need to answer that right now. And everyone sitting here watching are probably they have their own opinion, and that's fine. But what is it? Because let me let me give you a little scenario. Last night I had the craziest thing happen to me in the middle of the night. Scared the shit out of my cat. I am asleep deep. I, however, think I'm getting robbed, strangled, and potentially drug out of my house. I am every fiber of my being is fighting through the moment to survive. I feel like it's so real. So real that I screamed to the top of my lungs only to wake myself up, my cat hits the ceiling, she's freaking out.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

That would have been fun to have been a fly on the wall and observed that. Oh, could you and I screamed so loud that I was like, God, did the neighbors hear that?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

But my point is, I felt like I was in a reality moment, but it was perceived reality. Which lends me back to the question, what is this moment right now? Is it perception or is it reality? Chaz will hit you last.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

Yeah, I mean, I've I've listened to, you know, different discussions around this. I've listened to people that are a lot smarter than I am, that have actually like really spent and dedicated a lot of time, energy, effort, money, um, in their lifetime trying to understand and grasp what reality is. And I would say a common thread in everything that I've listened to or I've heard, or as I've just kind of set with it myself is in human form, we're always perceiving. So I don't really know that we're ever able to completely fully your answer is perceived. Yeah, maybe maybe we can maybe we can feel reality, but I don't think if any effort to try to explain reality is going to be filtered through perception, in my opinion. Chaz?

SPEAKER_02 40:11

I I think the idea of reality for me is exactly kind of what you just said, Ryan. You're always perceiving, but to Barlow's credit, you're not necessarily you can't necessarily tell when something's tangible if it's only in your mind. So you take senses, right? You you feel something, you're it goes beyond what your mind imagines, right? I'm not just looking at a camera or I think I'm talking. I know, because of all five senses around me, that I'm seeing what's on the camera, I'm talking into the mic, I'm holding a mouse, right? Or for the camera, right? I I I know I'm doing all of those things right now in the present. Right. And I think reality is essentially being in the present. Okay? Because if you say if if you only think reality is in your mind, then you go back to, well, is everything I think, say, and do from God? Or is it myself? And I know this is probably a little bit early to bring this up. That's part of my story in faith.

SPEAKER_01 41:24

Oh god. I Chaz, I was just looking for the answer, and I still don't have it. Is it reality or perception in your opinion?

SPEAKER_02 41:33

That we're living in?

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:36

Reality. We're here.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

That's his perception. I don't know what it is. I don't think it matters. I don't even think that's the point.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

I and I and I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

I I I think at the end of the day, does it really matter and and and what good's it gonna do to set an argue over which group of people believe it's reality, which group of people think it's perception, and the people who think it perception are just gonna say, well, you saying that it's reality is just your perception.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Because of the framework.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Well, and I and I agree with that. And I think people who think it's perception are gonna be more open to listening to a fascinating argument and maybe take some of those skills where people who think it's reality are a little bit more hard-edged, hard-nosed, and I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

Well, I got a question for Chaz because I want to go back to a point he said earlier of you know, he he believes that the phenomenon of God is separate from himself. Yeah. So before I go a little deeper into that, my other question for you is, you know, Henry Ford said, if you think you can or you think you can't, you're right. Where do you land, Chaz, regarding the idea that the way you think of yourself and how much do you believe that impacts what manifests into how you live your life and what kind of life is basically given to you? Like, do you think there's a connection between your belief and your view of who you think you are and then what manifests in your life?

SPEAKER_02 43:11

So I think I am completely separate from God.

SPEAKER_00 43:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

And I think the way that I view that framework is through the lens of history. Okay. It's not through my own spiritual experience, which I have. Okay. Several.

SPEAKER_01 43:26

This is grooming, by the way, but go on.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

So I'm gonna have to edit this out. Can you repeat part of that question one more time?

SPEAKER_00 43:35

Yeah, so before you get into the whole aspect of your belief around God being separate from you, the first question that I want you to answer, if you would, is do you believe there's a connection between how you think and feel about yourself and what manifests in your life?

SPEAKER_02 43:54

I think there's a difference between thinking about what I've I want to do and actually doing it. I go back to a verse that says uh man plans his heart's course, but the Lord determines his steps. And that's a big one for me because it's not just saying you're relying on yourself to carry something out. You are to a degree mapping out where you want to go. I didn't expect to be at this podcast studio. It's it's it's not my own doing. I mean, it's interesting. No, this is interesting. You know, it it just happened. Like I think Barlow, how long ago was this? Maybe two months ago? Yeah. I was telling you, like, yeah, I'm I'm just doing ride share. I don't know what I want to do. I'm fresh out of Berkeley College of Music, you know, composition degree and work is thin. I'm not gonna be able to Uber. You're like, well, you know, I got this gig. I don't know how much it's gonna bring in, but we'll see what happens. I didn't I didn't do that. You see my point? I just I was simply obedient to what was being asked of me.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

And following your faith.

SPEAKER_02 45:11

To a degree, yeah. I was obedient with following my faith, and it wasn't my gut. It was okay, God, I don't know what's going on. You have and I mean that's that's where I stand. I completely gave up control on what I wanted for my life.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

I think Well, and you know what I found fascinating about all that, Chaz, during that conversation is you didn't seem stressed at all.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

No.

SPEAKER_01 45:32

And you don't seem stressed. Like you're getting ready to get married, you're fairly young, you have a high value degree, you have a high sense of who you are at such a young age. Yeah, and um most young men, shit, most men in general would be freaking out right now. Of course they would. Stressed, probably not a good partner. And here you are just going through the motions. Right. Explain yourself.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

What do you want me to explain?

SPEAKER_01 46:05

Like, how did you get to that at such a young age? How did you get to just be in the present? Is it is are you hanging your hat on faith? 100%.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

Right, but what would you say to the Christian who feels like they're trusting God, they're being obedient, they're living by faith, and yet they couldn't pay their rent this month, or something happened to one of their kids and they're really sick. And that's a great argument right there. That's a great debate. Well, this is why I believe it's there's no reality, there's only perception, because I have no interest in making Chaz wrong. I think it's beautiful. And if the language and the framework with which he finds the ability to be calm, to be at peace, is that he wants to give credit to God and he wants to say that he's walking by faith. All I care about at the end of the day is that he's happy, thriving, living in vitality, and finding a way to not overwhelm himself with stress and anxiety. But if another person doesn't use any of that language, doesn't give any credit to a God that they don't see as separate from them, and uses language like I am, and this is how I'm going about it, and these are the practices that I've put in, and this is what's led me to there. I find it really interesting that so often then it's the religious people that aren't as comfortable from my point of view. This is my opinion, in allowing someone to be happy and thriving and living a beautiful life, but these religious people are upset because you're not you're not giving credit. Yeah, you're not identifying it as listen. How do we know that both people aren't tapping into the same fucking thing? They just call it something different. Go on. Go. This is so stupid. Go. We we we go to war. We we we hurt people, we harm people, we say horrible, ugly things, we're mean, we we exclude people, we we are racist, we all this stuff.

SPEAKER_02 48:28

Horrible.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

And we could simply just go, but hold on though. Like this person's a really calm, happy, beautiful, joyful, loving, mindful human being, and so is this person. The way they explain it, the words they use, how they describe it, radically different. That's what I hope more and more people awaken to. Yeah. There's nothing in my 45 years on the planet that has allowed me to live in more harmony with all things, all people, and all of life, and all of nature, and all of earth, than to awaken to this concept that I don't need anyone. Listen, if if if that person was talking in Russian, you wouldn't even know what the fuck they were talking about anyway. Have no clue. None. In fact, I would argue if you want to go back to the example that you asked Chase, like how did he handle the fact that Courtney was a Catholic? Did you just call me Chase? Yeah, I think you Yes, Chase. Yes, Chase, but it's Chaz. So when Chaz and Courtney met, what if they had never, ever, ever once invited either one of them to ever discuss any spiritual beliefs? What if from the first moment they met, they said that is not going to be anything we're ever going to talk about? And they just, they just fell in love, they just enjoyed each other's company, they found that they had a lot of things in common, they had similar goals and dreams, they liked hanging out, they had really great conversation, there was physical chemistry, there was mental chemistry, all of the things, right? But they had no idea that Chaz was a Christian, and they had no idea that Courtney was a Catholic. But they were, and that's the framework they live from, but they didn't know that. Their mind had not heard those words, right? This is exactly what I see in like religious homes where one of the kids comes out and says, I'm a homosexual. And I'm like, well, before he announced that or she announced that, you had no issue with them. They already were that. You just didn't know it. So to me, what trips up humanity is a fucking sound. Because at the end of the day, words are just a sound. They're a vibration.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

That words are so true. Scientifically, that is true.

SPEAKER_00 51:02

And yet, that is what causes division. It causes us versus them, it causes in versus out, it causes right versus wrong, it puts people in the judgment seat, it says, I'm in control, you're doing this incorrectly, I'm getting it right. And yet the person who's always claiming they're getting it right, if you sit in their energetic field for very long, you realize they doubt that certainty more than anyone else who's also doubting it when they say it.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

That's interesting because the way you just say that, and what I go back to in the gospel, I don't ever really see a point where Jesus doubts himself. And that's where I think it's so interesting where my framework comes in here, because I don't see Jesus doubt himself. I see him struggling with the same exact thing that everyone everyone has ever experienced and will. So my perspective on this is not I'm right and you're wrong. It's that I am so far from truth. I am so far from being right that it's only right that I submit myself to someone who didn't doubt themselves.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

What if he was just simply modeling what was available to all of us?

SPEAKER_02 52:32

He was made the image of God.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

And you weren't?

SPEAKER_02 52:36

Well, he was conceived by God.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

And you weren't?

SPEAKER_02 52:39

Not by the Holy Spirit directly through Mary. And that's the difference. I could have made myself. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

What do you do with all the uh science that says the earth's been around for way longer than the story of Christianity? What do you do with that?

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Well, like I said, I'm not a scientist, so I don't claim to follow the children. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

But I think you have to answer the question though. Because I I love this argument and I've never heard anyone articulate it in any way that makes me think that the fact that Earth I mean, at the end of the day, I guess here's the real question.

SPEAKER_00 53:15

Is there a chance that potentially Earth was around long before the Christian story came about, and that potentially it's not exactly the way people think it is. Is that possible?

SPEAKER_02 53:29

If it is.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

No, and no, is it possible, Chaz? You it doesn't matter what your answer is, it's just a question. It's not a test.

SPEAKER_01 53:39

He's into the absolutes. I'm okay with that. I understand.

SPEAKER_00 53:44

It brings him comfort. I understand that. And life can be really challenging.

SPEAKER_01 53:48

Extremely challenging.

SPEAKER_00 53:49

It really can. What's different about Chaz, though, than a lot of other religious Christians having the discussion is that he can just sit here and have friendly discussion. I know I can trust him. Uh he would help me out in a moment of need. And even though he might vehemently feel like his truth and his point of view and the stories that he believes in and how he sees it are correct, and that mine might not be, he's not going to weaponize that against me. He's not going to exclude me, and that's powerful. And that's really what everything that I'm about is really leading to. I don't have any interest in making anybody wrong, converting them to anything, or even asking them to give up their story or framework. But quit being a fucking asshole. I mean, I no offense. Like, I mean, quit being a judgmental control freak. Quit being someone that I have to walk around on eggshells on. Quit telling me that you think you know how to live my life better than I do. Quit telling me that you think the Holy Spirit's communicating to you instead of communicating directly to me. You're the one that keeps people want to say they believe in the Holy Spirit. I'm like, well, then let the Holy Spirit do its job in me. Why do you keep interrupting and interfering? Not you specifically, Chaz, but religious people.

SPEAKER_01 55:10

You know, at the beginning of this, I said that you're a preacher. I think uh we're having a couple of preaching moments throughout this podcast, Chaz. Would you agree?

SPEAKER_02 55:19

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 55:19

And dude, when you seriously, when you get on these like little tangents, it's incredible to watch. And it and I and actually, I mean, if you want me to label it, it's almost as if the spirit is working within you. I wouldn't disagree with that. So, anyway, all right, we probably should wrap this this podcast up. I'm not even sure what the content or the title of this podcast was supposed to be, but I did think it was super fun having Chaz uh in his first integrated part into the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 55:50

Yeah, and I just want to say too, Chaz, like I have so much respect for you. Um, I'm never trying to put you on the spot. Oh God, here we go. I I really genuinely don't think it matters. What I hope you can continue to do anytime you're on the show with us, just give the answer that comes up immediately. He does qualify everything. Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

I do like to, unfortunately. I have to qualify.

SPEAKER_01 56:15

So it's only a 45-minute podcast at the most, and it's supposed to be only 30 minutes, Jazz. And if you're gonna be on the show, you've got to pipe down.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

But I would love to, I'd love to dive into that on the next episode. Why is it that humans feel the need to qualify?

SPEAKER_02 56:29

For a second there, it sounded like you actually meant it.

SPEAKER_00 56:31

Of course it. I did meant it. What do you say, Ryan? I said the next episode is gonna be about qualification. Why why do we feel the need to qualify? I think we just had that show, Ryan. We did? Yeah, just now. Why does Chaz feel the need to qualify everything? Why can't you just say the answer that first comes to you and not then analyze if that's the answer you actually want to say out loud?

SPEAKER_02 56:54

No idea.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

At least that was. Right, so he doesn't even know why he qualifies everything. You're watching the Ryan Lef show.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

What a show it was.