Orgasm or Bust!

75% of women never experience orgasm.  The church indicates sex before marriage is a sin.  When is it ok to have sex?  After the ceremony, when you get the state certificate or after you leave the little building with a steeple?  This podcast explores some of the world's most preposterous situations leaving those with critical thinking skills stumped and rolling their eyes.  Is this you too? 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

This is the Ryan Lulf show.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

I don't always know exactly why any of us maybe feel so strongly about something that occurred in our life or a certain subject. I think there's always a sense of wanting to belong. Like there's a sense of community. We all like being part of the team. We like to feel included. You see the passion we show at sporting events, concerts, many different things that are happening throughout planet Earth. But I just wanted to say, Barlow, as as we jump into this next episode, like at the end of the day, my heart is really about people saying, I'm more connected with my spouse and or my partner or my boyfriend or my girlfriend or just my romantic partner, my life partner. Like I'm not attached to whether you're married or you're not. I I happen to be married, so you know, refer to it as spouse. Like what really is most meaningful to me in my life is there's moments where I couldn't even put into words what I feel in a connection with Caroline. Or there's moments with my children. Like my four-year-old, you know, he he he speaks, he talks, he has words, but you know, he's only four. So his body language, his response tells me everything. Every single time, I mean, every single time that I pick him up from school, he runs and jumps in my arms.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Every single time. And what I'm really speaking to, what I'm really coaching to, is the role that I play in that is I leave my phone in the car every time I pick him up. And I pause for a minute when I pull into that parking lot and I bring my full presence from a busy day, maybe I've been recording podcasts, maybe I just coach someone that afternoon over Zoom. Or maybe I just flew back in from a speaking engagement, whatever it is, I remind myself you're about to walk in and you're his whole world in this moment. Be fully there. And then sure enough, the energy I put out, he reciprocates, and I embrace him and I hold him, and I soak those moments in, and I say to myself, this is life.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

That's what every guy needs to take away. They need to literally disconnect themselves from what they think is reality, you know, in the box smartphone-wise.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

So yeah. But my invitation is disconnect from the need to be right. Disconnect from how important your specific framework and beliefs around God are. Disconnect from your net worth goals, disconnect from your comparison to your buddies at the pickleball court. Disconnect in the moments that you really need to bring your full presence. Like when I'm recording a podcast, I can't be with my four-year-old son Arrow. So it really doesn't serve me well to be thinking about Arrow the whole time. I want to be fully present in our discussions. I want to be fully present in what we're bringing to life here in this content. And then simultaneously, when I show up to pick him up, or I'm choosing to be with him, I don't want to be thinking about what episode I'm going to record next. And I think we're we're missing life itself. We're missing the moments because we spend so much time in our minds in the container of thinking about what we tell ourselves is going to potentially happen or not happen in the future, or we rehash the stories of what we call our past. And what's right in front of us is life itself. This moment, right now. So if you see religion, God, spirituality different than me, I I I love you. I I can I can be passionate, and hopefully what you can still feel underneath that is I care about you deeply as a human being. And I'm okay that we see it different. And I hope you walk away challenged. And I hope you're able to sit with the concepts and the ideas that are being brought to light, not as a threat, not as a way of telling you that you're getting it wrong, not out of fear or shame or guilt. In fact, I would actually invite you to maybe realize that it's your own belief system that those root negative emotions are actually coming from, but you keep blaming them on someone who is only shining light and reflecting back the projection you don't even realize you're putting out. I can tell you right now, go meet with people who work in hospice. I have a friend, Derek, who works in hospice, and I've had many conversations with him around what do you take away from talking to people who are on their deathbed? And what's so interesting is he says all the things that they say matters most to them aren't the things that all the people who aren't sick and who aren't on our deathbed are acting and living like are the most important. So, in other words, what it appears to me is that if we don't bring consciousness to the unconscious, if we don't get silent, if we don't get outside perspective, if we don't challenge and examine everything we think to be true and put it under the microscope, we'll just be the next cog in the wheel laying on our deathbed, only realizing as we look in reverse that what we lived out and told ourselves mattered wasn't the things that mattered at all. And my invitation for anyone that works with me, that's listening out there, you don't have to wait till you're on your deathbed. You can die to the versions of yourselves right now that are interfering with the life that you know deep down in your heart and soul, you actually want to be experiencing. Death and rebirth isn't a one-time thing. It can happen as many a times as you're open to allowing. Our cells die and are reborn over and over and over again all the time. And so I think when people get into super, I know when I've reflected back and I think about the suicide note I wrote in 2009, when I think about the deep levels of depression that I've been in in multiple times in my life, and I thought many a times at three o'clock in the morning, I think it might even be better if I was just dead. What I come to discover was actually the most true for me is that I didn't really want to die. I wanted a version of me that I wasn't enjoying to die, so that what was buried underneath the real me could emerge and I could birth a new way of being human. That was the truth. How did you do it by being able to recognize the programming and the conditioning that had turned me into the version that I wasn't enjoying being. And that's what I think almost every human on the earth runs from most.

SPEAKER_01 9:01

You know, I I find it interesting when you say, you know, you can you can die and re be reborn multiple times in a lifetime. And I don't think many people categorize it like that. I don't I don't think many people think they're going through a bad season, or um, I don't think that they can look at it in chapters in the sense of, hey, I don't have to be like that anymore. I can start anew just like that. It's changed my mindset, have to be open, maybe be resilient, maybe be quiet.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

But I look at life a little differently in the sense I think a life life is a is a series of inhales and exhales, and every inhale is a new life, and every exhale is a new life. I love that. And you know, I didn't always think like that. That that was not that was not in my vernacular whenever I was in my 20s or early 30s. Right. But but but in some sense, you know, life is the inhales and the exhales. And and so so my challenge has always been for the past, I would say, three to four years now, is like every time I inhale and every time I exhale, I want that next one to be better than the previous one. And you can also look at that. You can also look at you could really minimize life and death in that sense. That inhale is life, that exhale is now death, or and and maybe think of it in now you get to breathe again, and it's a whole new life. It could be a whole new restart, but we're so we're so conditioned to think that that we have to have this big, you know, either breakdown or we have to, it's gotta be New Year's Eve, and at 12 o'clock, you know, everything's gonna be brand new. I'm gonna, I'm gonna lose the weight, I'm gonna eat differently, I'm gonna exercise, I'm gonna stop smoking, I'm gonna stop drinking, I'm gonna stop looking at porn, whatever it is. It it we all think that there's has to be a time and a system and a and a and a theatrical, you know, announcement. It doesn't. Chaz, you can try you can change right now.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Yeah, I think you can change right now. I think it's a it's a recognizing that it's more about I'm out of alignment.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

Like I don't think we need all of these techniques. I don't think we have to have another program. I don't think it's about whether you get up at a certain time in the morning. I don't think it's about all these external things that we're constantly being sold and marketed to. Sometimes I feel like people aren't exactly clear on how they're going to benefit from my coaching. And I think it's because I'm not interested in just sounding like every other sales pitch out there. I'll tell you this right now. You won't be able to fully know that the investment you made in working with me was worth it until you're fully emerged in the experience. You're gonna have to just follow a gut instinct or an intuition or just have a sense that something is drawing you into connecting with me and working with me. Like I can't break it all down on what's about to unfold into some neat little structure. Well, no, I'm sure everyone is vastly different than the other. Absolutely. It's trusting the process, it's learning to tap in to again, I'm fine. If you come from a framework that you believe in the idea of like a Holy Spirit, well then tap into Holy Spirit. If you come from a framework of you believe in like it's your intuition or your inner being or your gut, well, tune into that. Go beyond the noise, unplug from all of the human opinions that in inadvertently drive you to live the life that you live and bring about the life that you're experiencing like what you want, you will find inside of yourself. Everything you're going after, you already are. I'm not gonna do anything miraculous. I'm hopefully going to help you dissolve all of the things that are in the way of you awakening to the miraculous being that you've always been.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Perhaps just shielded in grooming in society's methodologies and vernacular.

SPEAKER_00 13:30

Like, let me give you an example, okay? So I don't go to church. I'm not really a big fan of that system. But let me give you an idea on how I think it could maybe be looked at a little bit differently and where I could see value and benefit. There's value in community. There's value in gathering together with other people. Sometimes, when I think back to times I did go to church, the music really touched me, the vibration of the songs, or maybe even there was a really good word that was preached or shared, and it caused me to think about something or reevaluate my life. What if churches didn't need to have the narrative that somehow a separate God was determining whether or not they were going to bless you or not based on how much money you gave? What if churches were just more honest and said, This is the building space that we have, these are our expenses, this is what it cost, this is why we feel it's important in this community to have this. This is why we have the employees, this is our staff, these are the things that they do to provide these different opportunities for us to gather together. This is why we think this is important. This is what we're hearing in the feedback of why people feel like they love this existing. And we're we're not really offering anything that causes economical exchange to occur. And so we're going to have to be able to pay for the space and the building and the staff and the electricity and the coffee and all the things that create this experience that we're all benefiting from. And we're going to need everyone, in a sense, to contribute so that that can continue. And we fully understand and get that without the support of all of us together, none of this would be possible. God, man. You mean being transparent? Dude, I I that resonates so deeply with me. But this idea that if someone was going through a hard time financially, or maybe they even made some poor choices and they'd kind of buried themselves in debt, you really think that Almighty God that you say you believe in, the creator of the universe, is really going to be upset at them and remove blessing if they chose to use any extra income that they can generate to snowball and pay down their debt and not give to the church for a while? Like, it's so amazing how many things are misinterpreted. Like, I'm all for community gathering. But too often what I really see is a few people at the top of a hierarchy that are manipulating a message and acting like it's not coming from human opinion, and they're acting like they're talking directly from a being that's floating up in the clouds that's above all things and all people, and they're basically saying, hey, you're gonna be in trouble if you don't send us a certain amount. Don't worry about your credit card payments. Like, and that's just an example, you know? Like, I just think there's way more nuance. I think there's way more awe and wonder. I think there's a gazillion shades of gray. So many people are functioning from duality consciousness. Everything's right or wrong, black or white, in or out, and it's such a limited way of going through the human experience. Rumi had a famous quote: Beyond the ideas of right and wrong, there is a field, and I will meet you there. To me, that field is elevated or higher levels of consciousness, that it's not all just right or wrong, it's not all black and white. Life is messy, humans are messy, relationships are messy, businesses are messy, driving vehicles is messy, flying is messing, different cultures is messy, like the whole thing. It's baked into being like there's a there's a kind of pottery, I believe it's like in Japan or something, I forget what it's called. And basically, when it cracks, they don't throw it away or dispose of it. They actually rebuild it and get some more clay and and put it together, and they actually find the beauty in the cracks. What would happen? What kind of world could we live in if we saw the beauty in the cracks, the mistakes, the contrast, the differences, the disagreements, the hurt, the pain, the harm, all of it. What if nothing was out of order? What if none of us were resisting anything that is, and simply saw a place to pick up the pieces of our own life and those closest to us and rebuild and say, you don't need to be perfect. That wasn't the point of coming down here and being human in the first place. It was about the contrast of a messy, flawed, not so great, wild, chaotic, limited experience.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

But we live in a world where things are out of order, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Only according to your perception. Not everybody thinks anything's out of order. So if you think it's out of order, then that's going to be the world that you live in. Your world inside your mind is out of order because that's how you're viewing it. I'm not wearing those lenses, so nothing's out of order. But we have war.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

How do we explain that?

SPEAKER_00 19:41

And without war, we wouldn't know what peace is.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

But that gets to my point. We live in a broken world. There's evidence all around us of that.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

There is no and it's absolutely beautiful. It's chaos. Well, how else would we know what tranquility is or peace? Or calmness? If you didn't, everything is relative. If you never had chaos, then you wouldn't know what peace was like, or being calm, or having harmony.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

I feel like you should know this, Chaz, off the first couple of episodes.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Why does chaos bother you?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Specifically, why does it bother me?

SPEAKER_00 20:26

Yeah, why does war bother you?

SPEAKER_02 20:30

Because I believe everything basically fell apart at the fall of man. That's why.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

So you're I'm not at war with anybody. Yeah, you're carrying that burden on your shoulders? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

I I don't know if I'm carrying it on my shoulders.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

It feels like it is. It sounds like it is. You're describing it as it is. That's the reality that that's the perception I'm getting.

SPEAKER_00 20:54

Me too.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

But are we acknowledging? Do we need to?

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Who do you mean do we need to?

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Who do who how would you describe the people who are at war?

SPEAKER_02 21:12

I'm I'm not sure what you mean by that. What do you mean how do we describe the people who are at war? I mean, are you talking about what they believe is right?

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Do you do you do you wanna do you wanna fight anybody? Do you want to kill anybody? No. So why do those people want to, from your point of view? Why do you think what's happened inside of them? What's going on inside of their being and inside of their mind that's making them want to do something that you don't want to do?

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Well, I I see I think from what I understand. People want to give into themselves. They want to give into their desires. And the reason I say I don't have a desire to murder or even kill, or you know, they were saying the same thing. To make war.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

The reason I don't have the desire. Is because I have crucified that.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:04

I have completely put that to the cross of Christ. I don't I don't believe it's up to me to decide whose life I should end. And yet we have people that do.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Well, I don't believe in Jesus. I don't believe in Christianity. I don't believe in Christ. But this is not about whether or not I haven't crucified anything, and I don't want to kill anybody. So me and you aren't the same, and yet we have the same desire.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

But you did mention something that crucifying your desires, right? Because you did say at one point, and I'm I'm I'm correct me if I'm wrong. Did you not already say you've laid down what you thought was real and said, screw it all?

SPEAKER_00 22:55

Yeah, I don't know exactly what context you're referring to. So back when you were when you were lost.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Yeah, when you were on your deathbed for two years, and you just like Jesus said you just laid it, laid it all out. You're just like, forget it, I'm going with a whole new system of thought processes.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Yeah, well, I don't really have any need to be tethered to anything. I don't really know who God is, how God works, what God is. But you said you didn't I don't need to know.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Because you said it was you.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

Okay that's just an opinion.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

That is what you said. I'm I'm I'm trying to piece together what you said and what you're trying to get at.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

But the difference, though, is see, is that you're having to listen. You don't really think your stuff's your opinion. You think it's the truth. I don't think my opinion's the truth. I think my opinion's my opinion. Yeah, that's the difference. That's the truth.

SPEAKER_02 23:42

I think everyone's got opinions, you know. It's free will.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

You know, you're allowed to believe whatever you want to believe, but but but that's a whole nother subject within itself because let's say, for an example, that I have a health problem, okay? Okay. And the only thing I know to do when I get sick, the only file that I have access to in my mind is that I've got to go see a regular doctor here in America. Okay. Okay. I let's just say at this point, I have no awareness that there's a naturopath. I don't even know that exists. I've never heard of supplements. I don't know anything about treatments like vitamin C or hyperbaric oxygen chambers or detox baths. I don't know anything about coffee enemas. I've never heard anything about nutrition or changing your diet or that food makes a difference. Like, how much free will do you have if the only awareness you have around health is tied to, well, I just got to go to the doctor, whatever they prescribe, whatever they tell me, that's what I do. Like, if you have no other awareness, your free will is pretty limited. But let's say over time, as you are on earth for a longer period of time, you find out that there are naturopaths. You actually read a book that tells you that the food that you're putting in your body can make a difference on whether you're sick or if whether you have a cold or if you get cancer. You start to learn about other treatments and therapies that your doctors never even heard of, or you find out they're not even legal in America, right? Wouldn't you agree your free will, your choices all of a sudden increase dramatically? Why? Because those things all of a sudden appeared and existed and they didn't exist before? No, because the level of awareness expanded, and therefore you came to realize you always had more choices, but when you were in the limited awareness, you thought the only one you had was going to the doctor.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

And that is based on need too. People need that information. They're going to be more aware to find it. It's based on need. He has no need. Well, yeah, because guess what?

SPEAKER_00 25:48

I went to the oncologist, which is what most people think you're supposed to do when you have cancer, right? Like they don't know for the most part that there's any other options. And guess what he told me? The cancer's going to kill you. You're going to die, and maybe in the next three months. And I'm 35, married 15 years with three kids under 10. Well, what inspired me to potentially open up myself to expand my awareness? Because I wasn't liking what I was hearing from the only option that I knew was available to me in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

And most people are stuck in that rhythm, even at that moment of despair. Most people are like, well, this is my fate. What can I do? And then they buy in that. You're saying you have to broaden your horizon, you have to be open, you have to think that free will does exist, but you have to go search and find it. And when you do, you realize there's a whole new plethora of knowledge, information, systems, infrastructure, opportunity, because now I'm open and aware and accepting of something new.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

So I want to go back to the point that Chaz brought up where he said, Well, but things are out of order, you know? There's war, there's killing, right? There's a you can go on YouTube and it's called circle up or something. I I I I'll I'll find it. I can't remember because I will I'll we'll put it in the in the notes of this podcast. But there's a lady that goes into maximum security prisons and she goes out into the big open dirt field inside these prisons, and she has all of these prisoners standing in this huge circle, and she starts talking on the microphone and she says, If you were raised by an abusive parent, step forward. If you were raised by only one parent and have never met your father, step forward. If you were raped or sexually abused, you know, when you were a kid, step forward. Like she starts naming all of these horrific things, okay? Every single prisoner steps forward on at least some of the things that she says. It is one of the most powerful things I have ever seen. They start interviewing these men. These men describe that they have never been seen, they have never been heard. By the way, it's it's women too. Men and women. They've never been seen, they've never been heard, and they've never been held. And absolutely horrific, horrible, unfathomable things happened to them when they were kids. And there is a direct correlation and connection to their behavior as adults. Now, listen, on planet Earth, there are consequences, there are cause and effect, but I have watched enough of those interviews to absolutely feel at the deepest level of my being that for some of those people, it wasn't actually until they had already killed somebody that they actually awakened to who they really were and really wished they never had. That it blows my mind. So many times in life, all of us can speak to this. It takes something really traumatic a lot of times to cause us to wait awaken and remember the truth about who we actually are. In their case, we can't remove the consequences of planet Earth. They may still have to stay in prison, but that doesn't mean that they're any less than you or I, because in any moment, we could have had a situation that caused us to take an action that we might have regretted for the rest of our lives. I know there are things, if I were to look in reverse on the 45 years I've been on the planet, that in this exact moment, yeah, I wouldn't choose to make that choice again. I wouldn't choose to talk in that tone. I wouldn't choose to hurt the person that I hurt. I wouldn't choose to make that action, right? So often our beliefs and our program, our conditioning cause us to be defined by the actions we take or don't take here on planet Earth. And what I want to just keep inviting us to is that the real true essence of who we are, the pure energy, the pure consciousness, the pure life force that exists. Like if I stab myself right now with a knife, I hurt my body, but I don't touch my soul. I don't touch my heart. Like we're in a podcast studio right now, and we're setting up on the second floor of a business in downtown Jinx, Oklahoma, right? And there are two computer screens right in front of you, Chaz, that are powered up by electricity. Right. If I was to get up and grab those two monitors and throw them to the ground and shatter those screens, would the power go out? Would electricity shut off? No, it wouldn't. Well, the monitors. But that's not what I'm talking about. That's not electricity. It's electricity that feeds into allowing the monitors to work. See, that's the difference. Our essence is like the electricity in that story, that analogy. You can't touch your essence. But if I do that, guess what? Cause and effect, we don't have two computer screens. We're gonna have to pause the podcast. It's gonna cost us money to replace those. So do not misunderstand what I'm saying. If we can live from the truth of who we are, that our essence, our pure consciousness, our pure energy, the being that we were before we incarnated in this body and the being that we're gonna return to after we leave our body cannot be touched. But simultaneously, we can be fully aware that there is cause and effect, and that while we're playing the role of Ryan Lelf or Brian Barlow or Chaz Tackett or whoever we are, if we choose to act out certain things, there are real consequences. And it does dictate the human experience, but it doesn't touch the truth and the reality of who we actually are. And what I have found is that living from that truth has made all the difference in going from a pressure-filled life of never feeling good enough, of chasing money, of chasing sexuality, of thinking that a bigger house or a faster car or anything was gonna somehow finally give me the peace that I was after. Here's the cool thing I'm not against a big house or a fast car or great sex or making a lot of money. But they're a lot more enjoyable when you're not looking to them to give you that which you're supposed to awaken and remember you already are.

SPEAKER_02 33:11

I would agree with that.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

So then it just becomes about what do I want to enjoy? And how would I like to live this human experience? Well, I'd rather be out of prison than in prison. I don't want to harm anybody. Plus, I think we're all one anyway, so whatever I do to another, I'm actually doing to myself. That doesn't mean if someone does something to me, like steal or cheat or lie, I may have to create a boundary. But I don't have to walk around with a bunch of judgment or ill will or hate. All that's gonna do is interfere with my incredible, beautiful, wonderful, crazy, chaotic, adventurous life. And what I hope is that through that example of freedom, what if my kids see someone hurt me and I don't let that deter me? What if my kids see us have ups and downs financially, and yet they still saw a level of calmness, emotional intelligence, love and acceptance, it's all gonna be okay, right? Like we have so many humans trying to protect themselves and everyone they love from any type of pain or any type of situation that they deem that would be negative or bad, and yet it's all those things that cause us to grow. It's all those moments that lead us to evolving. Are you saying we can't have one without the other?

SPEAKER_02 34:44

Are you saying there's no pain?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

No, I'm saying the pain is a necessary component to the entire experience, and every time we try to remove it, we're interfering with what it means to be human. So we should stop running from it and we should start learning how to be okay with it and embrace it.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

What are some of the um what are some of the results that you've had that you've really enjoyed with working with men that have bought into your coaching, have bought into the mindset that there is give me one or two examples of some really some of your favorite results.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Yeah, I can think of one immediately. Um interesting enough, his name's Ryan as well. And uh when I started working with him, he came to me and he said, I'm addicted to porn. And he had all this shame and all this guilt, and he thought it was so wrong and so bad. And he said, Man, I've tried everything and I cannot seem to stop. And I said, Well, you kind of came to the wrong guy, because I'm not gonna tell you to stop. I said, Until you can watch porn and actually enjoy it and remove the shame and guilt, it'll always own you. Super unconventional. And he looked at me like I was a crazy man. And I said, I don't have shame and guilt when I look at porn.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

But aren't there studies that actually tell you that looking at porn and consuming it is bad? I mean, that what you're saying really does go against the grain of science and culture the way we know it.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

I mean, it means it's human opinion. Well, right. Well, and to and to Chaz's to Chaz's defense, I mean, yeah, I mean, all the books, the, you know, all the all the you know reputable counselors are gonna say that that's less ludicrous.

SPEAKER_00 36:34

That's crazy. Listen, again, so many people are unwilling to acknowledge that what they claim is the truth is really just their opinion.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

But what if it goes back to science?

SPEAKER_00 36:48

And that's where I think the idea of porn, that's why I kind of relate to the guy looking at you going So now you're saying science is the absolute truth, or is that also a combination of human opinion with discovery mixed in?

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Well, science does point back to some form of truth in a way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

So let me finish my story and let's see if you still feel the same way.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Well, and I was even gonna say, so here once again, we're gonna have a real life situation that plays out. I don't know what the result's going to be uh compared to science and theory. So let's hear it.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

So I invited him, I said, my encouragement would be is to identify where the shame and guilt is coming from. Right now, you think it comes from watching porn. And I'm going to encourage you to see if you can discover that actually I believe it's coming from somewhere else. And as soon as you find that there's no shame or guilt, and if you want to fucking watch porn, watch porn. I don't think it'll own you anymore.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

So you're you're you're testing him to see if he can get rid of the subconscious guilt that he probably feels by watching porn to see if it's perhaps more enjoyable or if there's another one.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

I mean, here's a beautiful scenario. So what if you didn't know anything about sex and you get with your partner or you get married and you're like, shit, I don't have any skills. I don't know what to do. Yeah, what are you gonna you're gonna watch porn? Why is that so horrible? What what if you learned something about how to how to give oral sex, let's just say. Right. And what if you started taking what you had seen and you started practicing it? And it benefits your relationship. What if you gave your wife or your partner multiple orgasms and she was really enjoying that pleasure and it was really wonderful? I mean, I'm just saying, like, what if? Like You're not gonna learn that. I mean, how else are you gonna learn? I mean, maybe you can learn it somewhere else, but I'm just saying, what if you learn that from porn? Right? So he comes back to me. Um, it was about six weeks later, we were discussing and working on other things, and I wanted to give it plenty of time. He said, Holy shit. He goes, dude, you're on to something, man. He goes, I'm losing my desire to watch porn. I was it really he goes, yeah, he goes, I'm seeing it from a whole different light. I mean, first of all, these are real humans and they're just acting out pleasurable things. And they've all consented to it and they just happen to have a camera on them. And he's like, You're right. As soon as as soon as I wasn't labeling it as wrong or bad, or making myself feel like there was something wrong with me, or having all this shame and guilt, then that opened up the space for me to realize that I don't know how to approach my wife and tell her that I'm wanting something more in the sexual intimacy category of our marriage. And because I don't know how to approach her and address that, I've been settling for something less than what I really actually want.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

But does that not create a sense of like fantasy? You know what I mean? Like the the idea that like That's his story.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

That this that's that's this guy's story. It may or may for another guy, it might create a sense of fantasy, and maybe he goes a different route. Hold on though. I want him to where's he going with this?

SPEAKER_00 40:19

Well, I've got to be a good thing. I'm already I'm already feeling like he's wanting to say that something there's something wrong. Dude, I have fantasies all the time. Me and my wife love playing them out, and we love talking about them. So let's hear more. What are you implying about fantasy?

SPEAKER_02 40:32

I'm not implying fantasy being bad in itself.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

I'm implying that the context being outside of marriage as loves sitting in that judge seat. Have you noticed that? He loves being able to tell everyone else that the way to live life is the way I see it. And if you're doing it different, then you're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Hey, you know what we need to do though? We do need to get a bigger, more powerful looking chair, and he needs to sit in that chair in the podcast. Yeah. And maybe even put like a what do you think about sex toys, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 41:07

I wouldn't use them personally, but he has no idea what he's doing.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Holy shit! There's gonna become a time in your life where you're gonna wish that you did some toys. They are so fantastic. All I ever asked myself is why did we start using them sooner? Right. And a lot of men are intimidated by sex toys or think that they're voodoo. But man, if I'm telling you it was a it was a game changer for me as well.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:34

Sometimes I even use the when you think that there's a separate deity setting up in the clouds, like shame on you, looking and watching and making people do anything you're not supposed to. And if you do, make sure you feel guilty or bad about it. And oh, by the way, go judge all the people that are also not doing it right. Help me out, because you know, I'm God and I'm pretty busy, and I can't really handle all 9 billion people. So I need a little worker, a few workers down there on planet Earth, you know, kind of being my judge for me. Like, think about it. People create God in the image of the judge that they have been programmed to believe that God is, and then they function as that, and then can't even see it.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Chaz, why don't? Why not? Are you are are you super young in the or I shouldn't say that. Are you are you are you naive to sex toys? Are you just do you just believe they're not necessary or they're not of God?

SPEAKER_02 42:29

No, I I don't think that at all. I I just think that the use of it outside of marriage. I I don't necessarily know the use of it.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

Oh, you would use them in marriage.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Well, I don't know. I mean, Courtney and I, I mean, I'm I haven't really gone into it with her a whole lot.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

We've not talked about that at all?

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Well, it's not that we haven't talked about it, it's that we haven't gotten to that stage yet. So I just don't have you know what I mean, I just don't have an opinion about using it right now.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

But do you have but you do have an opinion about Ryan using him? Or anyone else for that matter. Well, no.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

His opinion is directly around whether or not you're married. That's his opinion. I didn't get that sense.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Well, what I was getting at earlier, though, was not even about sex toys. It was about pornography and the detachment of reality from your significant other.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Because that's what I've been, I mean, but Chaz, what he's saying is is his consultation with that individual actually did the opposite. I know, that's what's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 43:28

Yeah. Like I know so many men that have met with Christian counselor after Christian counselor, they're still fucking addicted to porn. Yeah. And this dude had already tried that with many different Christian counselors and it didn't work. And he came to me and I was like, dude, just keep watching it. There ain't nothing wrong with it. You just need to figure out why you keep having guilt and shame and thinking there's something wrong with you for watching it.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

So, what was the answer for him then?

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Well, as soon as he let go of the bullshit belief that there was anything wrong with it, it didn't have any ownership of him anymore. And then he realized that what he really needed to figure out was how is he gonna Going to learn how to have conversations, real conversations. So he was lacking connections.

SPEAKER_02 44:04

He was lacking connection.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

He was lacking confidence to talk about a subject that is taboo. Because he was raised in an environment that it's dirty, it's wrong. And if you don't sign a piece of paper with the state and have a 45-minute ceremony at a building with a steeple, that there's something wrong with you. And then nobody can even agree on whether you can go to first base, second base, third base, or hit a home run. And then magically, because uh, by the way, we got our state certificate at a different actual date than the date we did the ceremony. So which one were we allowed to actually start fucking on? Was it when we actually got the certificate from the state, or was it when we stood before God in the ceremony of the church? Like, it's so ridiculous. No wonder 75% of women don't have orgasms. 80% of marriages are sexless. And every single man that I've ever consulted, which is over a hundred, that has prostate cancer, I ask them two questions. Number one, on a scale of one to ten, ten being absolutely phenomenal, one being absolutely horrible, how would you rate how you feel about yourself sexually? Not a single man ever said it was higher than a three. Then the second question is, and also on that same scale, one to ten, ten being absolutely phenomenal, one being absolutely horrific, how would you rate your sex life in your human experience up to this point? Not a single man was above three. There is a direct connection to the absolute control and manipulation of human beings to think that they should be able to dictate, judge, and tell another on what they can or cannot do with their bodies sexually, based on whether or not they have a certificate from the state or their country or whatever, and whether or not they had a ceremony and said whatever they think you have to say, and that somehow, if they don't follow those rules, there are eternal consequences, right? How about we approach it from is there consent? Are you ever doing any harm to someone? What about the energetic exchange? Do you really just want to be sleeping around with anyone and everyone? What if you actually take on their energy? What if we actually approached it with consciousness instead of right or wrong? Because the majority of people who are raised in purity culture and are raised in an environment where it's not really allowed to be talked about and educated on and it's taboo, they all have pretty much, from what I can tell and from what they've shared with me openly, their sex lives suck. They're frustrated, and it drives most people, especially men, to bored because they don't know how to actually have great, awesome, pleasurable, phenomenal, fun sex. Because they got so much bad programming inside their own mind. So what else are they supposed to do? They can't turn off their heart on, they can't turn off what's already built in, which is arousal and desire and wanting to feel all of that. It's built in and baked into the whole deal of being human. Especially male. No, I think it's even more female. They just don't know. That's another fucked up thing. Yeah. The female's the one that's got a thousand nerd at nerve endings that can have literally five, ten, fifteen, twenty orgasms in one session. So you're saying guys can't do that. Maybe they're the real sexual. They are. They're way more sexual and way more insatiable, and they just don't know it. If you unleash a true woman sexually, good luck, guy, trying to keep up with her.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

But that is the truth.

SPEAKER_00 47:56

I mean, absolutely good luck trying to keep up with her. And we got all of these frustrated men out there when really what we ought to have is men who are trying to figure out how they're gonna last longer, how they're gonna hit the gym and build up their glutes and their thighs and their hamstring and all the muscles around their pelvic area so they can actually keep satisfying their woman.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Chaz, what would you say your sex life is like? Are you are you even having a sex life?

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Yeah, not yet. It's it's a zero.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

It's not active. It's a zero. Or just an inactive.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

It's inactive. It's not like zero. It's not like an idea of like it's inactive.

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Right.

unknown 48:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 48:33

Wow. And I say this. Who could you possibly be texting in a moment like this? I was just looking at my notes. I need you to be in the moment. And this is a serious conversation.

SPEAKER_00 48:43

Oh, I'm in the moment. I mean, my God. I say this with no disrespect. Because I mean, hell. You know, I didn't have sex till I got married. So I understand where he's at in his journey, what he believes, and I and I I can honor that.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Can I can I make a brief observation? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 49:06

Which one's he gonna go with? You or me? We'll see.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Ryan, you sound mad.

SPEAKER_01 49:12

He went with you.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

I sound bad.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

You sound when I hear you when I hear you talk about this. Sex? Sex, pornography, God. All of it. You sound angry.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

I am fucking angry, dude. I mean, I am pissed off at another human being thinking that they absolutely had any right to interfere with my autonomous being, of being my own fucking person, my own fucking soul, and being able to come down here and explore what this was and what this is, and determining for myself or tapping into what they told me was the Holy Spirit. You better fucking believe I'm a little pissed and I'm angry. Well, because now I'm on the other side, see, Chaz, and I'm having phenomenal sex. And I cannot imagine if I had not been brave enough and courageous to ask the questions and to push back. See, my father was so afraid of being angry, he died of a brain tumor. And if you go and look up what's connected to a brain tumor, one of the major connections is a person who is unwilling to be angry. He was so afraid of it being he was so afraid of being angry because he was told it was wrong to be angry. It ain't fucking wrong to be angry, bro. I I think it's one of the most powerful things I have ever discovered. Does that mean I live in a constant state of anger? Absolutely not, man. For the most part, dude, I am happy and joyful and light and fun and you know, just enjoying life. And then when certain subjects come up and I realize like what I've come out of and what I'm now getting to experience, and how pi how many people maybe never will because they're too afraid to push back or ask questions or be called the black sheep or pioneer a new idea in their family or their community or with their friendship group. I think, damn, man, that could have been fucking me, man. Holy shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do. Like, just as simple as, dude, like we were basically told, like, you shouldn't use sex toys. Like, they those were of the devil, those are wrong. Yeah, boy, those people don't know what they're talking about, man. And what a show they're missing out on. Bro, if anything, they are made of God. Amen. Jesus. I mean, dude, wow. The ecstasy, the pleasure, the sensations that go through your body. The longevity. I mean, can it be the fact that your wife or your partner or your girl wants more and you hadn't been able to quite figure out how to get him hard again, and you can use a toy, but you can still do other things, and you still got your hands and you still got your tongue. Yeah. Woo, doggy. Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, buddy, it's so hilarious to me that we're like afraid of being fucking human. We're like afraid of the shit that comes up inside of us. We're afraid of our own sexuality. We're afraid of our own bodies. Can I say something weird? Yeah. I'm not. Awesome. I'm really not. You're getting ready to have the time of your life, brother.

SPEAKER_01 52:36

Well, and I I think Hey Chaz, do you think do you think that this show, this this podcast, the Ryan Lef show, do you think it could potentially make you into like a sex god, maybe? Because it sounds like we're starting with a because well, it sounds like we're starting with a blank slate, a little naive. Don't, you know, you might not know all the tools. Now hold on. Naive? Naive.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

I'm just asking. Hold on. Naive, talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_01 53:00

I might be wrong here. I'm just asking. Like, you might not know there's a whole new world out there that you're about to explore that you probably just know a little bit about, but you're with two guys that have have have had some really good relationships. One's in a really how long you and Caroline been married? Almost 26 years. 26 years. I came out of 23 years. It was in a great relationship with the girl after I got, you know, it's I've had some. I've had some other experiences. So you're with two guys that have have been around the block a time or two, and not from a whore standpoint. Right. Well, certainly certainly if we had. Certainly not you. Uh maybe a little bit more me, but right?

SPEAKER_00 53:34

Like, I I mean we could just keep going down so many rabbit trails. Like, why why do we why do we judge people according to body count? Why do we even have the term whore? And and and where's the exact number? Is it six? Is it sixteen? Is it 38? What is the number? Is it 107? Am I a whore? Like, I mean, I just I get so sick and tired of all the humans who constantly live from a seat of judgment and then deny that they're sitting in the seat.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

You have to stop asking if you can interject. If you don't feel like you can interject, then don't. Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

So when you're talking about judgment, the same perspective that I'm talking about judgment also sounds like the same level and more. Like, in the tone of your voice, it almost sounds like you're judging me more than I am being open to listening.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

What am I judging you about? There's no sense of judgment coming up. Yeah, what am I judging you about? What am I telling you what am I telling you that you're doing wrong?

SPEAKER_02 54:37

You're telling me my framework is wrong. And that's scary. Yeah. No, I didn't say that. I don't think I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

You're the one that's in your mind wondering if maybe your framework is wrong, because you live in a framework of right or wrong. I don't live in a framework of right or wrong. I live in a framework of this is how I currently see it. If we're doing this podcast in, I don't know, 2028 or 2034, I may have a whole new set of words on how I describe God for all I know. Right? I'm not afraid of that. You could be evolving. Right. I could be. This is what I keep going back to. You're listening through the lens and framework of your programming and projecting it on and saying that that's what I'm communicating.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

So one thing I want to point out here, though, is your target audience is someone like me, right? I don't think I ever said that. No, I don't think Well, you're you're trying to approach young guys too, younger guys who are, you know, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Let's make sure, hey, hold on. Let's make sure we're very, very clear on the dynamics that we're setting up. We're not trying to reach any certain individual. We're trying to reach people who might need a little help because they're stuck in a mindset, a system, a behavior, um, a situation, um, a lack of potential because they're stuck in a programmed thought process that is not working for them and they need a new beginning. That's the people. Yeah. And it doesn't matter what age, it doesn't matter what demographic, it doesn't matter what they live, what part of the world they're in, doesn't matter. What language they speak. They just the only thing they need is just to be open to the idea that it might be different, and therefore it could be better.

SPEAKER_00 56:24

Well said. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 56:26

So well said understanding that. As a listener, though, just well, because I'm I'm behind the board. I'm I'm listening to this whole conversation.

SPEAKER_01 56:35

Go on.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

And it's not bad, but it does challenge me. It challenges the idea. It says, I'm right and you're wrong. Somewhere along the thread.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

What's saying I'm right or you're wrong. You or Ryan? Well, wouldn't it be Ryan? No, at no point. You okay, so I am starting to buy into your theory. Am I misunderstanding? Hold on. I am starting to buy into your theory that there are there are many people, I shouldn't say many, there are some people that that do see things through the way that they were programmed, that they're unable to digest information, therefore transition because they're so groomed to think the other way. Correct. And Chaz, this is no disre Chaz. Yeah, first off, I want to make sure you know I love you. And I mean I'm not just saying that on the podcast. No, no, no. But I think you're a great example and a great addition, really, to the podcast to bring such a diverse angle of how this is this is he's actually playing an unbelievably perfect role.

SPEAKER_00 57:35

It really is to, in my opinion, didn't even mean to. No, that's what makes it so beautiful. It does. He it's so innocent, right? Like no one prepped him, no one asked him. We don't have script. By the way, this is this is raw.

SPEAKER_01 57:49

This is unscripted. Listen, the Ryan Love show, as it's evolving and has evolved, I can tell you with a hundred percent certainty, it is raw, it is real, it is unscripted, it is unrehearsed. And let me tell you something. We often go into these podcasts without any recollection, re recognition, recognition of what we're going to talk about. It just starts to flow and evolve, and what you see is what it is.

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Yeah, I just think until all of us are able to realize that we are actually not listening, we are actually hearing through our own lens, our own belief system, and our own programming, and we are then projecting what we believe someone is communicating through that out onto them. He and and and I mean, I from my point of view, I could be I couldn't be any further from a guy who is operating in duality consciousness of what's right and what's wrong. And yet he keeps bringing it back to a point that if he hears something that's outside of the construct of how he sees it, then he interprets that as I'm telling him how he's going about it is wrong.

SPEAKER_01 59:06

But but to his defense, he also might be a little autistic. And I and I mean that in the sense of I think the way his brain programs information and content in combination with his grooming, yeah, I think he is not incapable, but very hard to tap into.

SPEAKER_00 59:25

Well, to go back to a point you keep making, though, so let's just say there are humans and there are people that, for many different reasons, their brain functions you know on the spectrum in a different way. Maybe they won't ever quite fully, you know, be able to get it from the perspective that I feel like I'm trying to communicate. Let's just say, as an example, right? You've made this point several times. Why do people, though, get so stuck on a story of a person, in this example, Jesus, two or three thousand years ago, that they can't see, touch, feel, smell, talk to, and constantly be in denial to a real life human taking real life actions in real moments in the here and now.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

Chaz, I would have much rather preferred you to have heard that story that Ryan just testified to on his own coaching methodologies. The results suggest the response, not to speak for you, I was expecting was what a s what an unconventional way to approach such a delicate topic. Congratulations to him and kudos to you for going against the grain and getting him to a place that no other licensed seasoned Christian-based counselor could get this gentleman to. Bravo. Well, done. That's what I was expecting.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:57

And to some to some extent, it is very fascinating. I think for me it's fascinating or good?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:03

I think I think I think no, I I don't I don't think you're being articulate here. It can't it it it how can it be fascinating?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:12

It it it it can't be well on some level, honestly, m maybe he is almost like, I don't even think this could be true. Yeah, do you believe the story?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

I Yes or no? Yes or no? I believe it. Then how can you not in good conscience be like, okay, maybe, maybe if I was addicted to porn and I couldn't get myself out of the rut, and I felt like there might be something deeper that no one was ever to tap tap out of me, maybe I would call Ryan, and maybe there's a potential chance that Ryan's gonna give me unconventional procedures that allows me to think differently, that then takes me to the root cause, which gets me in front of my wife, causes me to have a great sex life, a better marriage, and now we're all so much happier living in bliss. Why is that not a thought process in your mind? Because of my framework. Fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:58

I'm serious. It is honestly like this is the most articulate I can get with this. It's because I am conditioned, whether can you guys believe it?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

Hold on, hold on, stop, Brian, stop.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

I am conditioned, whether you guys believe it right or wrong, that looking at pornography does objectify women, it creates an inflated sense of self, it detaches you from the person you're with, while in theory it should or might in the concept of our mind say, Oh, this is actually going to benefit my spouse. I've heard Christians with their own wives say on the other side of this, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, where did you get that from? And they go, Oh, I that that wasn't me. And this is a this is true, not just of one person, but I would say any person who is a calls themselves a Christian has a conscience and is listening to that moral compass inside of them, whether they believe it's the Holy Spirit or not, I still have a lot of debates of whether people think what they're actually hearing is themselves or God.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

And I think that's why. In my case, it's the same. Right. I don't have to worry about who I'm hearing from because it is the same. Yeah. I I I I am the image of God, I am the fabric of God, I am the life force of God, I am the consciousness of God.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:24

This is what every Christian will disagree with you on, though. It's not that you're not in the image of God. It's that there's a separation between being an image bearer of some God, you know, a God that exists who, you know, sent Jesus, that God, versus being like, oh, God is a piece of me. Well, we're we're projected in the sense that God wants us to project Himself to humanity. Right. And that's that's that's where my framework is. So it's not that I'm like, you know, I would say triggered. Because I'm fascinated.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:00

I'm fascinated that someone can say to themselves, wow, I I can't believe Would you recommend a friend that was addicted to porn? Would you recommend him to Ryan?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:11

I would recommend listening to the podcast before talking with Ryan. Sure. That's the fairest example I could say. Would I personally, I don't I don't think I have a need for it because I found freedom from that. And I don't think it applies to me in that sense. But I think for a lot of young Christian guys, it does. And they need to find freedom from pornography, not because it's, you know, that's quote unquote bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

But hold on. That's that's your way of thinking. And that's the construct, yes. Yeah, and that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:39

And that's great. Yeah, because some people, man, porn has lit up their sex life. Porn has brought them and their spouse together. Some people watch it together. Some people have learned incredible techniques and things that have caused them to have intimacy in ways they never even dreamed were even possible. Like I think what what I keep noticing is the constant denial of other people's reality because it's different than theirs. Yeah. That's that's why people have a hard time being in harmony with all humans. Because it's like I can't accept that.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:14

Yeah. It's like I'm glad that it works for you. Right. And I'm glad that you're enjoying it, but I can't accept it.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Like, like, I mean, I have plenty of friends. I mean, I was with a friend last night. We were just hung out for like three hours. It was amazing, beautiful, hadn't seen him in a while. And he had a couple of beers. Like, I don't personally drink. I just I don't really like it. I don't care for the smell of it. I've tried it a few times, just doesn't do anything for me. Like, I don't care. But like if they drink, they drink. Like, like I just I don't I don't even have an opinion on it. Like, it's just all I cared about was connecting with my friend. Yeah, I get it. You know what I mean? Like, but yet so many people, what's it to us? Why do we fucking care about what everybody else is doing? What a destruction. Distraction from our own life? Who's taking care of my health? Who's taking care of my emotional regulation? Who's taking care of my sleep? Who's taking care of making I show up well with my spouse and my kids and my family? Who's taking care of me if I'm constantly worrying about what everybody else is doing? Not me. Oh, that's what I have God for. This separate creator that's just supposed to do that. Well, he's doing a shitty job for some people because they're overweight, they're drunk, they're dissatisfied, they're stressed out, they're on prescription medicine, they're cheating on their spouses, they're killing people, stealing from the church. I mean, like, the list goes on. So, like, it's so hypocritical. It doesn't even make sense. And then I see people who just mind their own business, who are taking care of themselves, who simply just say, Hey, unless you're causing harm, unless there's abuse here, it's none of my business. What's it to me, right? I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about and navigate my human experience and have a really great life. I'm gonna make the you know assumption that they are too. If I want to be fascinated and curious as to maybe something I've never considered, well, then I might listen to their point of view.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

I have a question for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

Not like I don't have a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

These are these are the moments in the Ryan Lelph show that we're all waiting for. Yeah. I have a question, Ryan. I have a question. I do have a question.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Do you think life is about living in comfort, or do you think it's about uh giving back to others as a form of self-denial?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:45

Maybe it's both. I'm sorry. I'm I'm why am I answering your question? You said Ryan's. I'll send you an invoice for the started coaching, Barlow. Wow. Go on, keep going. I'm just resting my ears.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

Well, I just I I guess my question is, do you do you think life is worth because that's the this is the framework of most Christians. They don't believe life is worth living in comfort. They they they see life as yes, it can be comfortable, but it's best lived outside of your comfort zone. Even if you're not a Christian, I think most people would agree with that. And Christians specifically would say, I I think it's better to live a life of charity, of self-denial, right? Taking up your own cross, you know. And I think the judgment that you're kind of implying is like, oh, well, what I'm saying, the way that God speaks through me is the best way. You know, like that's why we have the weirdness in the in the church that we do.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:33

I'm sorry, we have to wrap it up. We have to wrap it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

Who said this wasn't already a second podcast?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:39

Seriously. Uh I could talk about this again uh for for another week.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:42

We know, we know. Oh, um I mean, yeah. I mean, interesting enough, like um, I I've spent a lot of time, you know, like learning about myself and a lot of the narrative that you just talked about, you know, abandoning self, I've actually made a huge connection to all of the dysfunction in my life. And I think the Catholic Church is a beautiful example. Um, they asked, you know, their priest or whatever to live in celibacy, right? And yet we see a massive problem of sexual abuse with children. Right. Doesn't look like abandoning self worked out very good for them.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

But is that representative of the whole? And that's really the question I think I'm asking.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Yeah, I'll tell you right now, buddy. You remove all pleasure, you show me a miserable fucking human being. And life. Yep. You show me people that think it's all about doing stuff for others, and you'll show some you'll show me someone that doesn't feel seen, doesn't feel heard, doesn't feel hed, hurt uh held, is exhausted, is is passive aggressive, um, can't speak up, can't speak their needs, is constantly playing a role that they don't really want to play, and most likely will probably at some point manifest cancer or some type of dis-ease that's basically their internal way of saying, I'm done playing this avatar. This doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:09

I think the the thing I go back to with what you just said is that, you know, that would be true if you didn't find pleasure in what you were doing.

unknown 1:10:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:17

Most of them don't. They're just lying about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:19

Well, I don't know. I mean, that's the that's the thing, that's the kind of the question I have. Are they lying about it? Because if you were to give, let's say, if you're t we're we've been talking about sex. If you're to freely give yourself to your spouse, your wife, ladies, if you're listening, your husband, if you're to freely give yourself, would you not find enjoyment out of just self-sacrifice? Because I find that even without having sex, I can do things for other people and still find that same pleasure, not sexually, not like in a sexual way, but just the joy that I feel of giving back because I don't live in an either-or world, so I don't even go down the path of what is either or about it? I don't I don't understand what you mean by either-or.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

I'm gonna have tons of pleasure, and when I see a moment and an opportunity to be able to do something that I believe can be helpful to another person. I mean, I'm sitting in my car the other day with my 15-year-old daughter. We're sitting in front of a UPS store. It's right after my wife's big national pickleball tournament. She spents probably an hour inside the store having to ship a bunch of the equipment and stuff back to her home headquarters, you know, office and to some of the vendors that had sent product. And I happen to look out my windshield and notice a gentleman with probably a two or three-year-old little girl. The gentleman's got a huge box that he's holding on to, trying to hold the door open, can barely hold on to the box. The little girl is trying to carry a smaller box in and she is struggling. So I jump out of the car. I don't just take the box from her. I have enough presence and mindfulness to play along with her and I say, sweetheart, why don't we do it together? And I basically just help enough to get us in, but I basically make her think she did it. And we get it in there, and then I simply hold my hand up and let her give me a high five, and then I exit. It's not about me, and I go right back to my car. And my daughter goes, That was the sweetest thing ever, Dad. You felt joy from that, though. And then I gave my wife three orgasms later that night.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:31

But did you but did you feel joy in helping your daughter?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:34

Yeah, but I feel joy in fucking my wife too. But I'm not getting at that, you know. That is the that is the problem, in my opinion. The flaw in in these questions and the way in which you're thinking, is you are limiting what you're willing to extract joy from, and I'm not. It's a big difference.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

What do you mean by the way I'm extracting joy?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:54

You are labeling what would be an experience. You think that there's more joy in helping someone, and I think there's just as much joy in helping myself.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:03

Well, there's that, I mean, you can find pleasure, but I'm saying the difference, I think, between I think the label now. I'm gonna go to a label. Pleasure versus joy. My framework, I see joy as something that you don't give yourself. Ouch. I see pleasure as something you do. If it pleasures you to do something, it's something you brought about. If it's joy, it's not something that you could have brought upon yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:31

It's something that's but it's your opinion and your perception.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:36

But the perception does matter, doesn't it? Because that goes back to humanity. That goes back to the human experience. Even if you're not sure, you're not sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:42

But I think I think a ton of things I do for myself brings me a ton of joy. So am I wrong now because I say it differently than you?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:49

Well, I didn't say you were wrong for wanting to, you know, be in I mean, the way you're describing it, too, there's nothing wrong with having, you know, sex. Sex is a God-given thing. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:13:59

But it sounds like in your mind that it ranks a little bit low below doing charity work for others. No.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:07

Okay. Not at all. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:09

Just clarifying, because that's what I thought I heard earlier.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:11

No, uh, and and what I mean by that is you should, as a Christian man, have a faithful duty to serve and love your spouse.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:20

Thou shalt not shoot on thyself. Shh. Anyway, keep going.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:27

Chaz, we have to say that again, we have to wrap it up. We have to. We will. You know, the Apple stream, the iTunes stream, um, the Spotify stream, I mean, they're not gonna allow us to load up this big of a file. That's what she said too. So, so that's it for this edition of the Ryan Lell show. Uh, we we hope that you've enjoyed the banter, and I can assure you, though uh this conversation will probably last well past the podcast itself, and we'll probably document it, and it'll probably end up somewhere online. So much fun. Yeah.