Death may still be living! The debate starts now.

There is a very thin line between consciousness and mindfulness.  The Ryan Luelf Show breaks down resistance, barriers and judgement to find real conversation, healing, debate and curiosity about life, death and the thin barrier that may be between.   

Join the journey and connect with Ryan's community 👇
Dive deeper in the community here,
https://www.skool.com/let-you-network...
Book a free clarity call with Ryan here,
https://calendly.com/ryanluelfclarity...
Ready to find out what it means to be a real man in today’s world? Take The Real Man Test now:
https://ryan-bn6mlxj1.scoreapp.com

...

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:04

This is the Ryan Lulf show.

SPEAKER_02 0:09

I thought I was making big money and I had the 10 o'clock newscast and then I became the executive producer and then I got hired on by ESPN.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

Jeez, what happened, Barlow? You did? Yeah. You worked at ESPN? What did you do there?

SPEAKER_02 0:21

I actually field produced the 2002 national championship game between OU and USC in Miami, Florida for ABC.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Holy smokes. That's it? So you were behind the camera.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Oh yeah, director. Or not director, producer. And then the year that Carrie Underwood won American Idol, I was the field producer for Fox in Muskogee for American Idol for the live portion out of Muskogee.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Welcome back to the Ryan Love Show. Today's episode is going to be on hidden talents from Brian Barlow.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Today on Ryan Leff's show, it's Brian Barlow. We're going to talk about Barlow.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

This is great content, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

From broadcasting on ESPN to directing the Super Bowl. I mean, wait, what was that? A national championship? To teaching an unmarried Christian man how to use his fingers.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

That's right. That's the content you signed up for on the Ryan.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

We have it all here at the Ryan Love Show, let me tell you.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Getting right into it. Okay, so we I I gotta start with this guy. So a lot on this show, we've we've talked about this idea of like letting go and whatnot. And I know we're we're coming from this silly moment right now for those of us joining.

SPEAKER_02 1:36

I was gonna say this is a terrible transition.

SPEAKER_04 1:38

No, but this is part of the show, and this is this is part of the organicness of it. Like, you know, it's just it's just cool. We can we can always start over there.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

You actually have to agree with him, Barlow.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

I don't know that I agree yet.

SPEAKER_04 1:49

Okay. You don't have to agree. It's I think the thing about this show is you don't have to agree. Well, no, you don't have to agree, but it it's accepting it, whether or not you agree or disagree.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

You know, just let's just make it. Is that what he's been learning? Is that what he's trying to tell us, Barlow? He's learning to accept that even if you disagree with it, you still have to accept it.

SPEAKER_02 2:06

Ooh, so your teachings are already try they're already coming into effect. It sounds like it to me. There's changes. You've come a long way since the last podcast.

SPEAKER_04 2:14

Okay, well, just wait. I got a cool story for you guys. So yesterday, um I was, you know, I was winding down from just the day, and it, you know, if you know me, you know I like collecting records, okay? So I I try to find stuff that I love that is an extension of me and what I like in my music taste. So I uh I had this album that I had uh just kind of tucked away and is one of my favorite artists, but I hadn't listened to the album more than like once or twice, right? Um and forget about like just the collecting of vinyl in general, like that's a whole different story in and of itself that I'm how long is this story gonna be?

SPEAKER_02 2:49

A minute. Okay, go on.

SPEAKER_04 2:53

Hold on. Good grief, you're so impatient.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Marlowe's sarcasm at times is off the charts.

SPEAKER_04 3:00

So I'm I I pulled this album out, right? I just thought of that uh Oh my god, you're gonna get it.

SPEAKER_01 3:09

This is what I didn't know. I thought about little Stephanie on on what was that Full House. How rude. Anyway. Go ahead, Jazz.

SPEAKER_04 3:20

Barla won't let me. You won't let me.

SPEAKER_03 3:22

What are we doing here?

SPEAKER_01 3:23

I'll be quiet. I'll be quiet. Okay, we promised.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

All right, so I I pulled this album out, right? It's my it's one of my favorite artists, hadn't listened to it more than twice. And on the show we talk a lot about this idea of letting go and what it means to do that in different ways. So I don't normally do this, but when I first started collecting vinyl, I got into the hobby just because I wanted to find something that fit me. And one of those things that I saw that fit me, I was kind of like, oh, what can I hear different in this that I'm not already hearing from like the digital or the streaming version? Because I just I think there's something so cool about hearing like this kind of a dated format.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Barlo, what are you what are you laughing about now?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

He's laughing at my face. Oh my god. He looked at me and started laughing.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Jeez, I'm stuck. I can't finish anything with you guys.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

No, you can't. We are four minutes in. I was acutely listening.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Okay. Well, I'm going somewhere with this, and it it's actually very nice, very emotional. Need you to meet there? I will. Land the plane. I'll land the plane. You just stay with me. But I was um, I was I I decided I was I was gonna listen to this thing and for the first time not try to put myself, like my framework, into the music. And this is something very odd to think about because as a musician, you like to listen for different things. You're like, man, that bass look was really good, or like, oh, maybe I'm hearing the you know the guitars a certain way, or you know, the vocals stand out a little differently. Like the mastering, I'm that guy. I'm like, the mastering was really good on that, it's just for no reason. So I'm about two songs in, and something wild happened. I started seeing the music visually, not in the sense of like, oh, what could I picture I want this to sound like, but what effect is this having on me? And I I think it's really crazy because out of that it came this like it was almost like reading a book. Like you've ever have you ever read a good book that you get lost in? Oh, for sure. You just go, you could see everything that's going on, right? Well, this this album, which it was a I don't know if you've heard of Glenn Hansard, but he's a he's like a songwriter, folk artist, whatnot. He was in the movie once.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Based on the music that you've introduced me to, I'm imagining it sounds beautiful and it's great.

SPEAKER_04 5:42

If you like country, I do love country, I think. If you like country, this is kind of like the entry level, like this is what this is what got me into country, basically. Okay. So he has a new album out. I get two songs in, and I already know them. They're great. By the third song, I said, okay, I'm gonna basically I said I'm gonna shut up. Like mentally, I'm just gonna shut up. And whatever effect this music has on me is gonna have its effect. Well, immediately I start like thinking, what does well first of all, what does this make me feel? And not what what do I want it to feel like? What does it make me feel? I started seeing like out of like a book, like it felt like I was at one moment in a canyon or I was at Red Rocks, and I was watching the band play in front of me, but the lighting was not color, it was like black and white, and the whole point of it was like what could they do with just contrast, black and white? And every song had this it had a new sense of purpose, but I think the key is that I got myself out of the way here, and by the end of it, something radical happened, and I I will just I'll I'm just gonna kind of bring the tone down just a second. My granddad passed away uh in June, and I've been processing, thank you, man. Um it's been really difficult because I've been trying to process a lot of that grief. You were close to him, very much so, and um you know, he loved music with all of his heart, and I felt like in that moment I was kind of connecting with him on a different level. And I don't know why. It just you know, this is something he didn't really frequency, frequency, yeah. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

I think so, you know.

SPEAKER_04 7:21

Um but it was wild because like it, you know, I didn't think about it the last two or three minutes, but the last 30 seconds of this album, I don't know the name of it, but it was just like the sound of his guitar off in a different room, and he's humming something. And this picture came to mind. And it was like it was like watching uh spoilers, it was like watching Avengers Endgame and seeing uh Tony Stark's casket floating on the river. Except it was a wooden casket, and I knew who was inside of there. And it was literally like saying goodbye. It was it was like saying the goodbye I'd never said before. I've I've never felt that connection in you know, in any way, whether it be like through music or you know, praying. It was just it was very I mean, it wasn't overwhelming, but it was subtle. It was just to the point where it's like Sounds really beautiful. It it was cathartic.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Chaz, can I can I pipe in with the Yeah. First off, it's a as slow as that story started, and as confusing as it was in the middle, and as long as it took, it was actually a nice landing. But I also want to support the story with I had something similar this week, and so I was as I'm listening, yeah, as I'm listening to you ramble for six minutes. Well, what it should have took, 30 seconds.

SPEAKER_04 8:48

Yeah. Should have.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

I yeah, should have. Um it did lead me to a place where I want to share this with you as well. Maybe we can converse about it. Yeah. Um, I was I was asleep probably four or five o'clock. I was in the in the morning, I was in my deep good sleep, and I woke up. My dad passed away in 2007 um unexpectingly. And um, you know, I've never really quite come to terms with it. Like I yeah, is he dead? Do I live life in a normal fashion? Have I have I gotten through the grief? Yeah, but there are times I just tremendously miss him. Oh yeah. And um, and we were just we were we were very different people, and I and I hope I hope I hope he gets a glimpse of what my life actually turned out, and I hope that he's proud.

SPEAKER_04 9:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:32

But I woke up in the middle of the night out of nowhere, and I lifted up out of bed, and I said, Dad, like, like almost like a kid.

SPEAKER_04 9:42

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

And and it took me a moment to make me realize that I was awake now, but I thought I was still dreaming, and I swear, I oh, I swear to God, it felt like he was in the room with me. Wow. And I said, Dad, almost as if he was going to answer. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

I get a little choked up just talking about, but but to to your story as well, like man, I wonder what transpires and like I mean, I feel like what you both are saying, honestly, to me, is that you may not have thought of these words, or maybe this wasn't exactly how you were originally thinking, but the veil, the veil between another realm and the realm of planet Earth.

SPEAKER_04 10:30

That's exactly what it was. There was a veil somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

I think it's pretty thin.

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Like I think our ability to kind of drift in and out, you know, like we all know that hallucination, um obviously I've talked a little bit about plant medicine. We talk about hypnoti hypnotism. Um we've had unique experiences. We know we kind of come in and out of sleep. Like, I just I'm just not convinced that there's that much of a barrier.

SPEAKER_02 11:02

And sometimes it doesn't take a lot to penetrate, perhaps. Yeah, but but but what I find found interesting is why is it at our most vulnerable times when we have no control, which I think is a key to that. Like you're you're you know, Chaz Will you drop your resistance, yeah. Chaz, yeah, you're having a very like surreal moment. You're in the moment, like all your all you know, all the darkness is gone, like you you have no walls being built or that are up, everything's down, you're just being volatile within the moment, and then all of a sudden you have this kind of experience, this this moment of probably I don't want to speak for you, but gratitude, yeah, exactly. Thankfulness, humbleness, love, compassion, missing him, a moment of probably realness that you had you don't you don't get to experience every day.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

You know what, you know what came up for me though, Barlow is the word allowing.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:52

He allowed that moment to be present. Like the intentional part that seems to unlock these moments more often than not is I allow.

SPEAKER_04 12:08

This is where I want to take the show right now. Ryan Lelph. Can you speak to the power of letting go for us?

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Yeah, I think um I just imagine like standing in uh like a like a river. You ever been to like um I don't know, maybe on a hiking trip or a camping trip or been somewhere where a river flows and you can like stand in that river and maybe it only comes up to your shins or up to your knees, you know? And just imagine like you you reach down and let's just say that the river's moving, you know, at a nice at a nice swift pace. And can you imagine how silly you would feel and how silly you would look, any of us, if we started trying to grab the water and hold on to it? Like it would be no different than like chasing the wind. Like, can you imagine being outside and looking up at like a flagpole and that flag is just a whipping and you can hear it, and you can obviously tell that it exists and you can feel it, the sensation, but you can't see it, you can't grasp it. So I think the idea of letting go is to is to realize that like life itself is the moving river. It is the wind.

SPEAKER_04 13:39

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

Well done. I wasn't sure where you were going with that.

SPEAKER_04 13:42

I was I was waiting to hear. I was like, what's he gonna say? How is this gonna land? That's you landed it perfect there, man. That was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

And you know what's great about that, Chaz, is it didn't take him six minutes.

SPEAKER_04 13:52

I know. Well, maybe if I maybe if someone didn't interrupt him.

SPEAKER_01 13:58

Or maybe it's just because I'm 45. It probably did take me six minutes when I was 28. Yeah. Probably. But I but but And the reason you're even more efficient than I am is you're 52, Brian. Oh, thank you for bringing that up. Yeah, as you know that I'm super insecure about my age. Efficiency seems to come along with how long you've been on the planet. It's a fair point. It's a fair point.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

But but you're right. I mean, I think that's a great analogy in the sense of you know, li, you know, sometimes we feel like life is just we're going down the river and there's nothing that we can grab a hold on. And sometimes it's better, how do you survive by just letting go, right? But it's floating that you can't fight the current, you just float down the river and let it take you where it's gonna take you.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Well, the better question is is which part of our identity feels the need to survive? Isn't it the human identity? Like, like, what if the real me has always existed and will always exist no matter what? Then the only thing left for me to feel like needs to survive is my identity of thinking that I'm Ryan Leth. That I'm this human piece of meat, flesh, body.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

That's supposed to function and say and respond in a certain way. Yeah. To all these different varieties of situations that come about.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Versus just playing the game, enjoying the movie, understanding that coming down and incarnating as a human is like contrast.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

So you think you've been reincarnated?

SPEAKER_01 15:34

You know, it's one of those things where like I don't have any sense, like I don't have anything that like makes me remember. I do have some interest actually in going to like these um readings where people supposedly can tell you what your former incarnations have been. I'm I'm intrigued. Like, I wouldn't say that I believe in reincarnation, but I don't have any resistance to the idea either. But I have not come to a place where I have any sense of knowing that I would say, oh yeah, I definitely think it's a for sure deal. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I personally find a lot of joy not having to know.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Yeah, you don't care one way or the other.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

Well, it doesn't seem to really impact anything more than the stories going on in my mind. Like my actual real life experience is just my real life experience. And I'm only all I've got's the here and now. Like I'm right here, right now. I can touch, feel, smell, taste, see, hear. And if I come into some information that really leads me to go, I'm pretty sure I'm reincarnated. Well, there maybe there's something that that shifts in my perspective. Like I might have talked about this before. I do lean towards the idea of us having a soul contract. Have we talked about that? A little bit, but it but go on. And the reason that I lean towards it is because I found that leaning into that idea gave me the practical ability to release my 20-year-old son and let him be on his own journey and not, in a sense, feel a need to intervene or try to fix something for him or try to live his life on his behalf or carry worry or anxiety. And so the thought that he's here on his own sole contract, it's like, well, what are you gonna do, Ryan? Uh nothing. Just be grateful that you got to play, you know, in the in the in the you you signed up, you get to be the play in the play, the movie, you get to be his dad. You have to be his father.

SPEAKER_04 17:37

Like what what you I'm just trying to impact what you think what you're believing here. Are you saying before we even entered Earth?

SPEAKER_05 17:43

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 17:44

You believe that we've made a deal with the mind.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Let me make sure you heard me clearly. I lean towards the idea that this is possible. Okay. I don't know that I'm willing to say the words I believe. I gotcha. But I'm liking what I feel comes with a belief in this. But I'm not saying that I can go, well, this is why I think it's for sure true. I was noticing more of a tendency to not be able to completely let my son be free and release him and his own autonomous being. And when I got introduced to the idea of soul contracts, and I began to imagine that he was here on his own soul contract, which under the understanding of what I have, that meant that meant Addison chose me as his father. He knew that I was going to have cancer. He knew what he was going to go through when he was nine, 10, 11, and 12. He knew all the obstacles that he was going to face at 19. He knew he was going to make, you know, a huge amount of money at a very young age and then have a huge, massive roller coaster up and down with that in a very short amount of time. I don't know. But it allowed me to go, yeah, Ryan, relax. Sit back. This dude was a freaking incredible soul. He signed up for all of this. What are you worrying about? Like, I just found that it actually really helped me to actually embody that which I felt was higher wisdom, which is if you want to have a great relationship and connection with your adult children, all the unsolicited advice must end.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

And for me, I think you need to say that again. All the unsolicited advice must end if you want to have a responsible, loving relationship with your children. With your adult children. Your adult children, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah, he's not unless they're inviting it, they're not interested anymore. They have tuned you out. Your time is up. You don't have any more say.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

I'm experiencing that right now with Eli.

SPEAKER_01 19:39

Yeah, absolutely. The only thing that's left is for them to just get a consistent reassurance that you just love them. Period.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

That's good. That's really good.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

And all I was suggesting, Chaz, is I don't need to go any further. Right now, the thought that Addison's on his own soul contract is helping me embody the wisdom I believe is the best in our relationship.

SPEAKER_04 20:05

I think where my question is, where did you get where did you get like get to that or come to that conclusion? Because that's that's something I've never heard ever.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

Yeah, I mean, I think I've just exposed myself, you know, like taking trips to like Ecuador, um, being so open to um teachers, philosophers, um whether it be Facebook groups, whether it be different podcasts I've listened to, books, like I just don't have really I think a lot of people don't realize how much resistance they have up that if they get introduced to concepts that are outside of what they already currently believe, whether they do it very aggressively or vehemently, a lot of people even just quietly like they just oh, nope, can't go there.

SPEAKER_04 20:49

Right. And it's because we're talking about coming from like what we've talked about before, which is having a, you know, a framework that you funnel everything that you hear through. This is why we talk about like, in am I hearing what you say correctly, right? That's why I've had some of the questions that I've had with things that you've talked about. So maybe help um maybe help build that framework so that we understand what you mean by soul contract. Because I think that's where my uh that's part that's where I'm curious of like are you.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Hey, Chaz, are you triggered right now? Are you triggered by the sense that soul contract might contradict the faith that that we always talk about with you?

SPEAKER_04 21:26

Okay, I want to I want to reiterate this. No, I'm not triggered because trigger comes with offense.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

I'm not offended.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I'm actually very curious because I felt a curiosity interview. Yeah, I'm that's what I read. It actually felt different than some of the other times where he's inquired. Because sometimes he gets really I would agree. But I I genuinely will tell you I'm a very intuitive person and energetically in the field, what I was sensing right there was a genuine, like, huh, never heard of this before. Would you I'd I might be this is sound might be fascinating. Please, Ryan. Tell me more. That's what I generally felt.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Right. And the reason I ask is because I have I I mean, personally, I have a different position on it, but I want all of our viewers to understand what you mean by that because this is really a fascinating thing. This is, I mean, the idea that it whether or not you believe it, just the understanding of what you mean, I think is a very fascinating thing. So maybe dive into that for a second. What you learned this in Ecuador.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Okay, watch watch this, watch this. So I think uh a fundamental thing that needs to be said right here that we really speak to what you're what you're bringing up, Chaz, is I think what I'm drawn to the most are ideas and concepts that I feel make a tangible difference in my actual real life right now. And what I find is a lot of the theology, a lot of the beliefs, and a lot of the theories that I find so many humans attach themselves to or cling to as the truth speak way more to something that may or may not unfold in an afterlife way beyond the time they're here in their human body. And I just don't have any interest in that. Like, why would I want to get all wrapped up in something that may or may not unfold at whatever potential later date when I leave my body when I could be totally enthralled in the here and the now. So again, I and I will talk a little bit about what my perspective is on this idea of soul contracts, but I want to just reiterate the reason that I was enjoying going down, let's call it the rabbit trail of exploration, was that it felt like it was tangibly making a difference in how I related to my 20-year-old son. And I really, really liked that. So why do I care what it is that leads me to the thing I feel deep within my bones is exactly what I want to be embodying and is exactly what I want to be living. We get too attached to a tradition, or we're we're told that, well, certain things can only come through this channel or this book or this group of people, and we're told, hey, stay away from that. Ooh, that's scary. Don't let that influence you, right? Like, think about the amount of fear that so many of the frameworks we were handed as children are put inside of us, that then anything that sets off that alarm, like, oop, that's unsafe. Oop, that's not of God. Oop, that's, you know, gonna lead you astray. Like, and so I think people are just inherently walking around with this invisible wall that they don't realize probably got put up when they were a kid that says, I can't explore that. Yeah, I don't want to go there. A lot of people listen to them, that group of people's out of bounds, you know, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_04 25:11

A lot of people would describe what you're talking about as guardrails.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

Like, seriously, that's that's exactly what I hear at church every week. They they say, How are you um, you know, the I I mean, not how are you, but like Christianity in the way that I've come to know it is not supposed to be a limiting thing. The guardrails are there to protect you, just like you're there on a car, right? And whether or not you agree with it is maybe a separate talk in and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

But just I don't want to get too far away from explaining soul contracts, but I I do want to circle back to this. Okay. And and and so I'm gonna I'm gonna pose a question, then I'm gonna talk about my perspective on like soul contract, hopefully in a way that might give a little bit more understanding of what I think it is. But the question that I want to come back to after that is, and and right now, just a simple yes or no would be would be helpful, Chaz, and then I'll give you space to to go into much more. Sure. But and and I want you to think from your framework. I want when I say the word God, I am talking in your language and I am thinking of this in the way in which I believe you view God from a Christian standpoint as a separate deity. Okay. Yeah. Is God the most almighty, incredible, most phenomenal, powerful being thing that you are aware of at this point in your life?

SPEAKER_04 26:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Okay, great. We're gonna come back to that. I've got a phenomenal point there.

SPEAKER_02 26:43

All right. So the way I see ready, Chaz. He's getting ready to drop some, he's getting ready to drop some juice on you. Oh, it's gonna be good. I'm curious.

SPEAKER_01 26:51

I'm inquiring. I'm inquiring. I'm inquiring my Almighty powerful God and guardrails. Bring me back, Barlow, okay? Yeah. So soul contract. So the way the way I would give language to it is I like to think um of us as spiritual beings, like like the soul is like the the energy, the consciousness, the life force that existed that then came into our mother's womb and then fills up the body and and makes it be alive. Like if you remove our soul or our essence or that energy or that consciousness, then the body would just go limp and would just be dead. Right. Does that make sense? To me. So, so from my perspective, like a soul was was that energy, that consciousness, that life force, that aliveness that exists even outside of the body. But for planet Earth, it comes into the body, and that's where a lot of people can get misidentified with who they think they are because they can think they are the body. And it's like, well, but but the body can't really exist without that soul or that life force, right? So a soul contract is like, okay, I was already fully alive and I wanted to come and incarnate into a human body. And it's this idea that I decided that what I want to learn, the lessons I want to experience, the way in which I want my soul to evolve, the story of how I want to go through this pain and this trial, and I want to forget this, and then I want to remember that, and then I want this to unfold and occur. And these are the lessons that I want to really experience as a timeless, limitless, boundless, ineffable soul being that I that I am. I'm gonna incarnate as Ryan Lelf. I'm gonna be born into Glinda Lelf. She's gonna be married to David Lelf. They're gonna be very, very strong, legalistic, self-righteous Christians. And I'm gonna get bullied in school, I'm gonna have cancer when I'm 35, you know, all the things. And it's this idea that the soul knew the aspects in which it wanted to evolve or grow or expand beyond where it believed it was in, you know, its evolution, and that coming down in human form and being in that story would give them the experience that would allow them to grow and to evolve. Like that's kind of basically the idea of how I understood it. I actually am leaving uh uh um uh listening on Audible to a book right now called The Soul's Plan by I believe Robert Schwartz. It's fascinating. So you I don't even know if I'm even getting it all or if it even all makes sense to me, but I'm enjoying it.

SPEAKER_02 29:48

So you you I mean, you you you you're saying that you have the belief system, the possibility that we're all just these souls living in different conditions and different stages and different environments and different spaces of eternity.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, I I think it's a a very real possibility. Yeah, thank you. That was the word I was looking for. But but I d like like when I enjoy hearing people's perspective on it, or when I'm exposed to discussion around it, it seems light and fun. And at the same time, if I lived on Earth for another 30 or 40 years and I never talked about it again, like I'd be okay with that too. Like I just don't find I don't have any real like strong attachment.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Because you're because you're more focused on just the existence of now.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Yeah, and if I didn't feel that the idea of a soul contract was doing anything of real value in the right now, I we probably wouldn't even be discussing it on the podcast right now. But it but it is though.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Well, and just like just like the it goes back to the reincarnation argument, you just don't really care. You you may or may not be being reincarnated. But the fact of the matter is, if you if you are, it does it just doesn't matter in in today's form and in today's time.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

It's almost like a who cares like idea. It's like it why does it matter?

SPEAKER_01 31:05

You know, you know what it matters? It matters in the moments that, at least from my point of view as a human being, really show up and matter. I was sharing with sharing this with you, Barlow, prior to the call, but uh last Friday afternoon, Caroline got finished up with work around 3:30, and we didn't have to pick up our four-year-old till six. And so we actually came right over here to uh Pure Food and Juice, the new location here uh in Jinx, Oklahoma, and just shared some time together, you know. And because of how I'm growing and evolving, and I can, you know, reflect back over 30 years with her and see at times where um there was things I was desiring in our relationship, but I didn't really have the approach down very well, or I came at it too strongly, or my tone was off, or I could see now where she felt like maybe kind of attacked. Like this is a moment where all these things that we talk about on this podcast really showed up. So we're in the car, we're headed to Pure, and uh, you know, it's like December 11th or 12th or something like that, you know, and I know she's coming into a couple of weeks that she has off work, and we've really talked about this being kind of a slower season. Um, and I just said, hey, babe, I said, I would love to initiate kind of the beginning of what I'm gonna call like a three to four-week conversation. I think it'd be really cool if we could be intentional as we wrap up this year of 2025 to just like not make any assumptions that we both know what's going on in the other person's mind and that we could just start bringing up topics, subjects, things about ourselves, our kids, our finances, our careers, our future, all things, and just start having like discussion around it. So I'm like, I'm I'm prefacing this by saying, I'm not anticipating us we're gonna deep dive today and then you know, we're gonna cover all of that in two hours. I just want to plant the seed that as we find time to carve out for ourselves over the next few weeks, can we just make this an ongoing thing so that we go into 2026 really feeling aligned, really feeling like we have current deep understanding of each other because we're both growing, we're both evolving. It's been a busy season for us these last several months. Like, what if there are some things that have really changed inside of you and I'm unaware of them, or vice versa? And I could just tell, like I have never approached big conversations like that before. I mean, that just set the tone completely different. I mean, I could feel her shoulders relax. I could feel a judgment. It was like an invitation. It actually like, instead of like alarming the like alarming her or thinking, oh boy, what's he gonna tell me he's disappointed in now or what's he frustrated? Or what'd he do? Or what did he do? Or yeah, it was more of like, oh, this feels like something any fresh, wonderful, romantic married couple or partnership would want to do. Like, yeah, that sounds really nice, actually. So it really set the tone. And then the other thing that's been on my heart and my mind a lot lately is and it's actually a I think it's a scripture verse, but it's um slow to speak, quick to listen. And I mean, we've all heard that. We've all heard you got two ears and one mouth. But again, all that matters to me is that what I'm exposed to actually affects my actual life. Like, who cares if you can quote all these fancy things? Who cares if you can remember stuff if you're not embodying it, if you're not implementing it, if it's not showing up, if I can't come to you and say, damn, man, the stuff that's been resonating with me, like let me just share how it showed up with my wife. So we're in Pure, and I don't remember what the first couple of things were mentioned or talked about, but I can tell you, like, I was just listening. There wasn't that fix it energy. There wasn't like there's anything wrong with you. It was more of like, I was genuinely curious to make sure I was really in tune with today's version of Caroline. Because I know for me, I want everyone in my life to always show up and be able to invite the newest and freshest and highest version of Ryan to be available, and that they're not constantly bringing back an old version and throwing it onto me today and assuming I'm always going to be like that. It's not a it's not an enjoyable way to do life. And so that was present, and a lot of times she would just begin to share, and I was really just kind of making mental notes, and um, I was really more in the in the energy of I want to make sure she feels heard, I want to make sure she feels seen. And if she's if there's anything difficult, I want her to feel held or supported, you know? And all I can tell you guys is this has not been how our relationship's been always. I mean, if we go back to when we first started dating 30 years ago, she would say the reason it worked is she was very, very shy. I did all the talking, she didn't say anything, and that worked for us. So to be in a restaurant and 80 to 90 percent of the talking come from her, man, to just think about our evolution over 30 years. But we got to a point and I really genuinely wasn't listening to respond. I was listening to understand, to just, you know, and I I really for the most part, even when I would have ideas or thoughts, I would just keep them to myself. But at one point, something was shared and man, an epiphany went off, like a light bulb, like a revelation. Like all of a sudden, something almost like Chaz was describing that he was beginning to see, and when he kind of just relaxed and put down any resistance when he was listening to that music and those records, it was kind of like that. And all of a sudden I went, Oh my God, I know what she's been feeling. And the only thing I can do is try to give you just a little bit of context. So basically, at times, how demanding her career has been has made our relationship be a little bit challenging at times, just because, you know, the amount of energy, effort, time, and all of that that she puts into that. But she loves it. But she also really loves me. My God, 30 years. And what I all of a sudden noticed and saw in this moment from just listening was how hard it must be to be her and be afraid that somehow she might lose one or the other that she had to choose. And it broke my heart. And I thought, I don't want to live in that world. But what if there's a way that she doesn't have to choose either in the sense of giving it up? What if there's just a different way maybe in which she shows up to her work that doesn't make it quite as overwhelming or doesn't dictate her schedule as much? Anyway, I kept listening and then I waited for what I felt was like a really good moment. And I said, Can I ask you something, Caroline? What does it feel like in your body to love what you do for work? I mean love it. You're passionate about it, you're making a difference in the community, you get so much unbelievable feedback about how people feel about you. At the same time, you're genuinely, truly in love with your husband. Thirty years. Like, and he means the most to you. He's your best friend, he's everything. But what does it feel like in your body to have an ongoing fear and chronic level of stress and anxiety that if something doesn't change that you're gonna lose one of those or both? And dude, the tears just started flowing down her face.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

You heard her. Yeah. And you didn't respond with solution. You didn't respond with angst, you didn't respond with stress, you responded with love.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

Yeah. Presence. And you heard her. And I just said first off, I'm sorry for ways in which I showed up that made you feel like the only way you could truly be all in with me is that you'd have to give up the thing you loved in your career. I can't imagine what you've been carrying. But I'm growing, I'm evolving, I'm learning, I'm gaining insight and wisdom. And I sit here before you and tell you, I don't think you have to. I think there's just a new place in how you can show up where you can still have an element of the work and the passion and the things that you love, and at the same time know me and you are super connected, we're on the same page, we're in love, our cup is full, and you get to have both because we're that powerful of beings.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

What did she do?

SPEAKER_01 40:18

She's been all over me for a week. You poor baby. And I mean, like, I don't even I like I'm not even saying that, like, even like I just like it just shows me how natural we are as humans.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

And it also shows how how needy women are in a very different level emotionally than we are. We're physical, they're mental and emotional connection.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah, and the thing that I was longing for was that connection, and the thing that she was longing for was safety. And she was able to safe. I was able to grow and evolve to the point that I could listen, and it gave me the picture that because I needed to figure that out. She she hadn't quite figured it out, but as soon as I named it, it was like, oh shit, oh yeah, that's it. Oh wow, you know? And then we kind of had a little funny moment, and I was like, Well, you are married to a life coach. Right, right. I don't know if you know or not. And she kind of chuckled or whatever, and I'm like, I'm I'm pretty smart.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Yeah. Intuitive. Yeah. Which comes from connection. Yeah. But also it comes from evolving. And and and and really, you know, I think when you said earlier in in this in in this part of the conversation, you said that the relationship had evolved over 30 years. Well, it had evolved many times. Many times. Like to get to that spot, you guys have had to forgive each other so many times.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

Oh my gosh. We've had to basically say, uh, let's try this again. Yeah. Let's show up again. I value companionship. I value the fact that what I still have a sense of with you is you want to keep getting better. You're not willing to just settle for anything less than the real thing. Yeah. And not every human operates like that.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

Okay. Oh, God moment with Chaz.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

So back to you mentioned, Chaz, that you felt like guardrails were important. Yep. And I was coming more from a place of how often does the idea of guardrails keep us from exploring things that might have really been helpful? More often than than what they're intended for. And I would argue that what I heard so often growing up in the Christian framework, I would say came from a place of fear. It was, well, don't go there or you'll get sucked into sin, or don't don't listen to them, or they'll lead you astray. Or, you know, I have people all the time comment on my Facebook now and tell me that I'm leading people straight to the devil. You know? And spoken like a true Satan. Right. And my question is is that if your God is so almighty and powerful, why are you guys so fucking afraid? Yeah. Why do you need guardrails if you are led by God's Holy Spirit? If you are made in God's image, if God is with you and for you, and is the most all-powerful, incredible being, deity, whatever that's ever existed in the history of the cosmos, why don't you have more confidence in that than you do worry and concern about anything you'd ever be exposed to?

SPEAKER_04 43:37

That's really good. No, seriously, that's that's really good. Because what you're actually asking, the way I'm hearing you say it is why are you so afraid if God's on your side? That's a great No.

SPEAKER_02 43:50

No, I I I'm okay with that. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I mean what I think I what I think he's Well, let him hear what he heard. You just tell me what you hear, Brian. Fair enough.

SPEAKER_04 43:58

Do you wanna do you wanna say What you heard? Or do you want me to finish?

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Go ahead and finish.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

Okay. What you're actually asking, and what I'm hearing you ask, is if you if you trust God so much, then why are you afraid to explore? And I that I think that does become uh you know a real question, but the the reason it's a concern, I would say, just from my experience, is because I have felt personal convictions about doing things a certain way, preferably my way, and feeling like I've been led astray, right? Like I go back to scripture as my guardrail in the sense that it doesn't limit me, it helps keep me on the straight and narrow, that same straight and narrow that says basically few will enter the gates of heaven, right? It's easier to go through the eye of a needle for a camel, right? It's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than to get to heaven. And really, it's not even about getting to heaven, it's about getting there on your own willpower. So where I come into my framework with that is guardrails in this sense are meant to help keep me in alignment, not to try to limit or you know, make me think, oh, this person's bad. I mean, we talk about it all the time. Jesus even sat with, you know, sinners of every kind. He sat with drunks, prostitutes. Why should that limit us from interacting with those people? It shouldn't. But what it does raise the question is, are you being influenced by people who are living an immoral life, right? And the the question is, do we go down that way?

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Jesus seemed to believe that his influence on them was greater than any influence they might have on him. Correct. Seems that uh what you're saying is Christians are worried about the opposite, that the influence that I might have on them isn't as powerful as my concern for their influence maybe having on me.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

And that's kind of unfortunate. That's the unfortunate spot most Christians are in, is they're not willing to I would say it whether whether or not they receive what you're saying, they're not willing to hear what you have to say and treat it with the same kindness that God treats us with.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

I think it really actually speaks to the essence of this entire show. I would argue that I live from a genuinely way more grounded, rooted, powerful place of being based on how I describe the phenomenon of God and the untetheredness of not needing to be attached to a religion, a label, or anything. That to me, it's all spiritual versus the people that say, well, but you've got to believe this one way, or you've got to interpret things this way. I would argue they're living in way less power. Because I can tell you right now, we don't even need to be talking about like moral things or sins. We could just be talking about, let's say that I feel really strongly about homeschooling my kids. Like I can be around people all day, every day who send their kids to public school. It ain't gonna fucking sway me. It ain't gonna do anything because I don't have, I'm not trying to convert any other parents to homeschool their kids. I didn't make that decision so I could look good to other people or that I could even be right. I did it because I feel in tune with my body, my being, my heart, my soul, and my mind, and in tune with what I believe is God, and collectively with the conversations and support and love and partnership of my wife Caroline, in this season, that's what we feel like is best for our children and our family. That's it. And so, like, what I find so confusing is I'm like, to a lot of these people that, you know, feel like they have to be right, I'm like, well, are you even living your life because you really sat intentionally with yourself? And if you're in a partnership or a marriage or something like that, and you just unequivocally disconnected from everything else and everyone else and decided what is best for us. And if you want to use the framework of Christianity, you sat with the Holy Spirit, you tapped into God, you said your prayers, you wrote down in your Bible, your journal, and you went, how do we feel like God is leading us?

SPEAKER_04 48:56

That's the question I ask, Courtney, every single time we come together. Where, where is God leading us? Not and again, the the verbiage is a little different, like the way you're describing it, but it is the same identity, which is the root of like, right, where do we go from here? Like God, like it's not about necessarily me and what I want at this point. It's about where can we be led to next that's within alignment that you have for us?

SPEAKER_01 49:19

And do you really think the voice of God is like, well, make sure you avoid the owners uh of Jinx Coffee there on Elmstre or Main Street, because you know, I heard that they have a little bit of new anguish, new new age language going on in their like, do you really think God is up there concerned about who you encounter, who you bump into, that other people that bl I don't think so. If you're really tuned in to his power and what you're saying, wouldn't he be directing your life? He's not gonna be like, oh, make sure you don't go to that group. Oh, make sure you don't bump into them. Oh, make sure you don't eat at that restaurant. Oh, did you hear about what that owner's doing? Hey, I heard they're lesbian. Hey, I heard they're this like that's my pushback.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

But Ryan, couldn't you couldn't he say the same thing about what you follow? You follow your essence, you follow the moment, you follow the realness and the and the rawness of whatever that is in existence right now in this moment. Maybe it's the same thing. He's just guided and labeled it and titled it as special. No, it is it is the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

That is a point of agreement. The pushback I'm giving is why do I feel that him and a lot of people that come from more of his framework and that belief system, they tend to seem to be the ones that are more afraid of being exposed. I'm saying I'm not afraid of being exposed to anyone or anything. Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Do you agree with that, Chaz? You think people are exposed are in your realm of thinking are afraid of being exposed? And if if not, why are they so defiant on other thought processes, you think?

SPEAKER_04 50:46

Well, they're afraid. Um, and I I would say in my in my experience, they're they're afraid for a good reason. They're not afraid for, you know, oh, this isn't for me. They're afraid because the way that we as Christians view our lives in the eternal, it does have a consequence on us. It's not like, oh, I can just suddenly align myself to any theology that I want and not have ramifications for it if it's not real and if it's not true. And that's what I think a lot of Christians get to is they go, what is the source of truth? And we go, well, God is the source of truth, right? God is the source of all wisdom and all truth. That does not mean we're gonna know everything. And that's again why I I brought this up in a previous episode. That's why one of these big um things that I go back to is the story of Adam and Eve. When Eve ate of the uh the forbidden fruit, she began to have what? All the knowledge of God.

SPEAKER_02 51:41

Diarrhea. No?

SPEAKER_01 51:45

I mean, I have another question since we're going back to Adam and Eve. Yeah. Do you believe all of humanity came through Adam and Eve and from Adam and Eve?

SPEAKER_04 51:55

Biologically? Yeah. I I would say yes. I mean, I've heard a lot of people give different arguments, but like I said, I mean, I'm not perfect. I'm I'm open to that. No, no, no, that's fair.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

I'm I'm not I'm I'm just curious, right? I mean, you do realize that according to the story, they had three boys. Correct. Okay, I'll let you sit with that one for a while.

SPEAKER_04 52:14

Well, they had Cain and Abel, right? I know that part, right? I think that just went right over his head, Barnaby.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yep. Chaz, would you bring and mine too, perhaps, would you bring up that text that I sent the group the other day uh that that I wanted you guys to um relay? I forgot what it was about, but I feel like it falls in this conversation. And then before we end the show, and we probably need to wrap it up before, but but before we do, I do want to have a little bit of uh light airedness to to to the end of the show. If we were all reincarnated, what do you think the other person was? And I think we and we'll we'll answer that in a couple minutes as we wrap up the show. But I don't know if I'm following I'm I'm trying to understand what your question is.

SPEAKER_01 52:56

You mean like if if if me in as Ryan? What were you before? Oh, what was I before?

SPEAKER_02 53:01

Yeah, and we're all gonna answer each other. Okay. Are you listening, Chaz? I'm here. Are you what are you doing right now? I'm looking up your text. Like I asked. Exactly. What a good boy. Thank you, sir. What a good boy.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

Thank you, sir. He's not a dog on a leash, Barlow. He's a part of the damn show and he's contributing. And stop calling him a good boy. Jesus. Sorry, Chaz. Yeah, I value you way more than a dog on a leash, but Barlow, on the other hand.

SPEAKER_04 53:27

That's why I'm here. I love you guys. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:30

So, Chaz, what was the text that I sent the other day?

SPEAKER_04 53:33

So you sent a screenshot from a TikTok that you uh you read.

SPEAKER_02 53:38

Um, and I I guess you hope it falls into line here.

SPEAKER_04 53:42

Yeah. And uh you you said this was in response to uh like some some craziness, like you just you saw something deep, and you're just like, man, I had to share this.

SPEAKER_02 53:52

My whole TikTok algorithm is nothing but deep thoughts, and I got TikTok to laugh, and now all it feeds me is like intuitive, deep thinking, mental pride. I'm like, God, I'm exhausted. I just nobody cares.

SPEAKER_01 54:07

Okay, go ahead. That's a whole nother show, by the way, of how sometimes I really love and appreciate the algorithm, and other times I'm like, I just want to do the opposite. Yes. Because like sometimes it's nice that it feeds you more things effortlessly. And then other times it's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I didn't want any more of that effortlessly. I already have enough of that on my own. Please just yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

Okay. So here's what the comment said that you shared with everyone. It said, uh I think he meant to say this is the secret, not that is the secret. I'm not sure if it was a response, but he says, that is the secret, and it is that simple of what they don't tell you is that you must go through a process of massive ego, death, and rebirth over and over and over again to change the beliefs that you have about yourself. It's the most painful process you could possibly ever endure. You literally feel at times like you are dying, but then you realize there's no death and there's no birth. You were never born and you never die because you are the eternal spirit that has been here since the beginning of all creation. You are, and he misspelled God, but he said you are God itself, having a human experience. Once you go through this process, you then create heaven on earth for yourself, and it is all taking place within you.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Chaz, what did you feel like when you read that?

SPEAKER_04 55:34

I I agree to the humanity of like having heaven on earth. I disagree that you are God. I just think that's kind of a Okay.

SPEAKER_01 55:43

Okay, we know you disagree. You know, but isn't that on the premise that you, and I'm not saying this with anything other than just making sure, and if I clarify me if I'm wrong, yeah, but you still primarily are viewing the word God as more of like I don't know how else to describe it, a deity, a higher being. We don't even have to use the word separate, correct, right? Correct. But and so I can anybody who's viewing the word God in that place, I get it. I don't think I'm God. When I think of it like that, if that's what God is, then no, I'm not God. I'm not I'm not the creator of all things, I'm not in control. I'm not here to police everybody. I don't get to tell everybody who's in, who's out, who's right, and who's wrong. Yeah, it's good. So let's be very, very clear on that. Okay. But that isn't how I choose to view that word God. I see that more as the wind, the life force, the energy, the conscious, the thing that just is a non-physical power coursing through the veins of beings and uh providing electricity here in this building and and making you know things work like cars and houses and gravity and all of that. Like it's the essence, the fabric. To me, the energy. That's a really, really important clarification. Because to say I'm that is not the same as saying I am the creator of the universe, I'm in control, I determine right or wrong, I police you. Does that make sense? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 57:11

Uh I don't I don't know. Come on, Chaz. And I'm serious when I say I don't know, because when you say I am God, what are you essentially saying?

SPEAKER_01 57:20

That I am I I you cannot separate me from the fabric of life. Which is like you can't take a bucket and pull out a bucket of ocean water, drive it from California to Oklahoma, and then say that it's no longer ocean water. It's still ocean water. Its fabric is ocean water. My fabric is God, the life force, the energy, the consciousness, right? Like, yeah, it it looks separate because I look separate from Barlow. I look separate from you, Chaz, because I'm in my own individual thing. But you just you just but but what you took me from, like taking that bucket of water from the ocean did not ever make it not be ocean water. Like you could you could take it as far as you want to go from the ocean. It's still fucking ocean water. I just don't think you can take us from God, from the fabric, from the energy, from the lifeness, and then say that somehow we're no longer that.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

Yeah, I mean, I just I I just have a different view on it completely. Yeah, that that's all there is to it.

SPEAKER_01 58:36

But you think you think though, like, how do you reconcile thinking that we could not be that when I use the analogy? Like, are you in agreement that the salt water, the ocean water, is always the salt water and always the ocean water, no matter how far you take it away from the ocean? Sure. So why is it hard then for you to wrap your mind around the idea? So you're saying that in human form we are somehow able to be separated from the actual thing we were birthed and came from?

SPEAKER_04 59:09

Well, primarily because it's incongruent with the framework that I'm hearing. Bingo.

SPEAKER_01 59:16

So it's not that you actually resist it, it's that it doesn't work within your framework and you're so attached to your framework. Guardrails, guardrails, way of thinking, conditioning, programming, whatever it may be, that you basically have to make up some wild and crazy story and make it make sense when you're not doing you don't you don't care seem to care. You don't have a framework around ocean water being ocean water, so therefore it just makes so much sense to you. But because you were handed a framework when you were little and you had no ability to ask questions, push back, or disagree, or say this doesn't make sense, or tune into your own.

SPEAKER_04 59:56

Oh, not at all. I ask questions quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah, but our subconscious, when it's being developed, there's not a whole lot we can do about that. Our nervous system was being developed at three weeks in our mother's womb.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

To his credit, though, and to the text, to the point of the text, is we have to die a thousand deaths, we have to be reborn a thousand times, we in order to get to where we are in life, like in order to live in abundance, we have to, in order to live, we have to go through those a thousand hundreds of thousands of times. And he's twenty-eight, you're forty-five, and you're fifty-two. And I'm fifty-two. He hasn't gone through the the the the rebirth and the death over and over and over again. So he's going to be so much more difficult to tap through because he he hasn't gone through the evolution of what you're preaching and what you're teaching.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:50

Yeah, well, I think I think that this is where uh sometimes people misunderstand me is I love the conversation, I love the energy and the passion, but what I love even more is like when Chaz and I showed up to the podcast studio today, I mean, we're friends. Like if someone heard the they would probably use the word debate from some of the things that are going on. That's not how I see this. Like, he's self-expressing, he's figuring it out on the fly. I'm self-expressing, I'm figuring it out on the fly. Barlow, you're self-expressing, you're feel you're you're figuring it out on the fly. Hell, for all we know, we don't even think exactly the same way as we did when we first started this podcast or when the first episode was unfolding. Yeah, I would agree with that. And in every single moment, if we're open to it, just like he was open when he put on those records and was listening to that music and really had an intentionality like, I don't want to receive this experience with this music the way I perceive that I normally do. And he very intentionally just tried to basically surrender, open up, and basically, we'll just use his language, invited God to meet him in that music experience in a way that maybe would be different than any experience he'd ever encountered before.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

And I think that's where you have to get people in order for your coaching and your teaching and the ability to think differently. I think you almost have to force yourself into a position of just complete vulnerability. And the Christian term, I think we call that surrendering. Is that is that right, Chaz? Just you have to be open to whatever experience comes within that moment, embrace that experience, let it be what it is. And I think uh I think you found that, Chaz. I I know that I I sometimes find that uh a a lot. And I think to to Ryan's defense, what he's saying is that's what has gotten him to the place that he's been able to get to from a probably a heavy, ritualistic, traditional, Christian-based type of upbringing to a thousand deaths, a thousand rebirths, and to a point where he can just let and let whatever it is be at that moment. Whereas I think you're I think you're in that still in that transition of life where you're still developing, you're still you're still you're still learning and trying to understand who you are and what you are and how you want to be there, and you're guardrailed by the traditional upbringing that was given to you. And that's not and that's not an issue. That's not a that's not a bad thing, right? But I think when once you have and once people who have failure, who have success, who uh who live through some things in life, I think they're far more capable and able to maybe have these transist transcending moments like what you're describing.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:42

Yeah, look, at the end of the day, I obviously feel like the way in which I explain my evolution, the way in which I feel like I live, um, I give examples just like I did a minute ago of the connection I'm having with Caroline right now. Like it's interesting how I would give credit to why I believe those amazing moments are unfolding and happening and occurring in my life due to the fact that I left a rigid framework. Here's what's fascinating, though. There are people who actually think they're having those kinds of amazing moments and those kinds of amazing connections, and they're actually doing the exact opposite. They are giving credit to the framework. And I'm at a point where I'm like, well, who should I argue with? Right? Like, I don't know what's gonna resonate, I don't know whose voice or which language or what words or what description or how it's gonna go about. I know this, and well, and I'm and this is even more of a Christian framework language. I feel called. I feel drawn to. I love the work of content, creation, self-expression, coaching, speaking, writing, connecting. And where I'm at is I give birth to what's happening inside of me through the words that resonate with me, the language in which I am familiar with currently, and if it shifts and changes, I move into that. And then I just have a trust that that frequency and vibration will be matched by other humans, and those will be the people that to use Chaz's term, God has me touch, bless, love on, help, assist, anointing, whatever, right? What if we all could trust that process? What if we could all live in that freedom? But instead, I believe it's our misidentification, our ego, the human part of us that thinks we need everybody to be aligned, we need everybody to think like us, we need everybody converted, we need everybody to do this. And why? And Chaz nailed it. Because if you live in a framework that if someone doesn't get it right, they're gonna burn in hell forever. It's pretty difficult to live in this freedom and peace I'm talking about. So for me, I had to burn the idea that a literal hell existed. Because there was no space for me to truly step into this kind of inner peace and this kind of pure love and this kind of incredible, ineffable freedom for me to exist as a human being on planet Earth. If everybody I looked at who didn't believe in my framework, I had to imagine them being tortured forever in an afterlife.