So many PEELS....

To get to the truest version of ourselves we have to peel back the layers of societal, parental, religious and sexual programming.   It takes an intentional understanding that your past may not position you to be the most pure and authentic version of yourself.   Today we help you peel back the layers in hopes of finding true peace and desire.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:04

This is the Ryan Lulf show. I used to fly myself everywhere. Yeah. Um, but whenever you know you listen to music while you're flying, you get a lot of interruption from air trap control as you transition from airspace to airspace. I have fallen in love with driving, which is so odd.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

What kind? Like what kind of kind of driving?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Racing or no, just driving because it's it's the one time that I can be with the music without interruption. Oh, that's the best. Is that a playlist you could share? I don't know if I'm going to, though. I'm not I'm not sure if I'm willing to share it yet.

SPEAKER_02 0:41

No, you should. I'll listen to it.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Well, I won't even tell anybody. I'll just make up. You make the promise. I'll just make up a story about how I've just slowly accumulated wonderful vibe songs over the journey of my life.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

I got like 50 playlists I'll share with you any day. No cap.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

You know, the one thing that I I've learned as I've gotten older is I feel like music can set the tone for not just your day or your week, but your season. And I go through different seasons where I listen to a different variety of music for that season. And right now I am in a sedated, chill, like sunset, you know, galactic type of music. And I I get entranced in it. Music is and I wish, I wish, I wish I could sing because I have such an outlet with music that I want to share it with the world, but I'm terrible. Like I can't carry a note. Like it sound my my voice sounds as bad as your cough.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

I wouldn't I wouldn't mind having like singing lessons, you know, just to like I don't really know how to sing, but I thought it would be really fun, cool, not not to try to become a a singer, but just to have enough knowledge to kind of understand, just so I could just enjoy singing myself. You know, I did that.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

I took singing lessons. Oh. And it was horrifically embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Okay. And even and even I wasn't there. I didn't know about it. If you hadn't just told me that, I would have thought I was about to say, wow, what a cool thing. Like I saw. Oh, you know you didn't enjoy it?

SPEAKER_01 2:20

No, I just couldn't, I couldn't get I'm I think I've been over yourself. I well, I think I'm tone deaf. I couldn't never get over himself. I couldn't. And I and I got it because I think for my I think it was my 15th anniversary. I had I was trying to learn how to sing so I could sing to my wife on stage, uh, tell her how much I loved her.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Bullshit stories we make up in our heads, man, that interfere with the beauty of life.

SPEAKER_01 2:48

I get it did. It didn't go back to- Sounds like it still is. Well, I sang, I sang to her and it was not it's not pretty. But I love my I think the point to this was I love the power.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

So that wasn't a time where she looked at you and said it's the thought that counts most?

SPEAKER_01 3:04

No, she did. And it was a it was a it was a good moment for us both, but I feel like I failed on the delivery of what I wanted it to feel like and sound like.

SPEAKER_02 3:16

Yeah, you probably did.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Shut okay up, Chaz. Well, I mean No one needs your negative attitude for it's not a negative attitude.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

This is this guy has a music degree. I do. I know he he he's I know what I'm talking about. Probably coming from a place of uh some some expertise. You know? The last thing I'm gonna do today is let you two gang up on me.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

We're gonna listen to the intern for once, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 3:37

I I was actually hoping maybe Chaz could bust out a rendition. Well, that's not the right word. Remindition, yeah. Rendition, yeah. Rendition of what? Of what? Just anything. Like I when you started singing the other day, I was mesmerized. I was. Maybe the tradition is not your playlist, Brian. Maybe the tradition is that Chaz sings for us.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Well, my voice is not properly warmed up, so if you want to, I can do a little self-plug here and play you something I've already put out.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

Let's do that. Okay, that sounds like and I'm not opposed to your idea. I mean, it is the Ryan Love show. You can do whatever the hell you want to do. Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:13

I I just um yeah. I love spontaneous ideas that you just run with. It's an amazing way to live. It's such it's such contrast to the old thought, analyze, yeah, we probably shouldn't do that, back away, and then another incredible idea just dead, fades away, destroyed.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Before you play this, Chaz, do you we have have you cleared for rights and usage to be played on the Ryan Left show?

SPEAKER_02 4:48

Yeah, I mean, like I'm can you say that out loud that you approve so we don't have any legal I approve playing my own song on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Are you good with that, Ryan? Oh, I can't wait to hear it. Alright, let's do it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

You see me someone like a seven for seven. Just want to take a money.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah, man, like for real dude. Like, all jokes is kind of good. I love it. It's so good. I'm finding I'm finding at this stage in my life, unlike you, Brian, maybe just a little bit different. Like, yeah, I'm really drawn to music. And I don't I don't know a whole lot about music. I I've been a person that, yeah, if you play the song, I'm like, I'm okay and I recognize that song, but I don't know the artist, I don't know the name of the song. Um I don't even always know the lyrics. I I guess maybe music's been.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

I'll never forget very close to both of my grandfathers. My both both said to my grandparents when I was younger, and unfortunately everyone's dead now, but I'll never forget they um my grandfather and one of his best friends were talking about um traveling to Iowa, and I didn't understand it at the time, but his his buddy said, I'm down as long as we don't take the expressways because we have to take the back roads. And in my mind, I thought, well, why in the earth would you take the back roads when you can go at that time it was 55 miles an hour? Sure. That's how old I am. 55 miles an hour down an expressway, you don't have to stop and all that kind of good stuff. I understand it now though. Yeah, I completely like I don't I don't want to take the expressway. I want to take the back roads, I want to see the life, I want to feel the small towns, I want to see Americana in the form that I grew up in Americana. Yeah. And uh, you know, it's unfortunate that you don't understand that when you're younger, but as you get older, you do realize life slows down and you have to stop and breathe through it.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Yeah, there just there's a real sense for me right now of just like I I really want to take it all in. Like I'm even just sitting here right here in the studio with you guys right now, and I'm like, I want to take in this. It's a vibe, isn't it? Yeah, like this this moment, this this unfolding, this season. Um I don't know, man. I just I really I really it puts a smile on my face. Um I just think about you know, in the last month or two or three, just some of the things that I was like imagining, desiring, that I wanted to begin to transpire, you know, with I came home from Ecuador in September and I just knew that it was time for an all-in full commitment, let's just call it to my life's work, my personal brand, you know, communicating, speaking, putting out content, coaching, you know, all of the things that have been alive in me really for probably my whole adult life, you know, and I've I've had a podcast here and there, I've done some coaching here and there, I've had some speaking, but I'd I'd never really been all in. Not not to the extent where it's like this is what I'm gonna do. I don't even know how I'm gonna do it. I mean, I kind of had a vision, I kind of have an idea, but I knew it wasn't anything I could fully execute on my own. And I just I just kept communicating to God, the universe, source, spirit. I kept doing everything that I knew to do to be in the frequency and the vibration of um align the partnerships, lead me to the right people, set me up for something even beyond my wildest dreams.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

That's powerful.

SPEAKER_01 10:55

It is powerful, but I think what what what's even more powerful is you don't I don't know that you, and maybe you do, I don't want to speak speak for you. But I do want you to consider maybe it wasn't just your your divine intervention either. Maybe maybe you're aligned with people that needed your alignment.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Oh, I don't disagree with that one bit. Yeah. And that that resonates deeply. I mean, why wouldn't it work that way?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Well, and and I when I when I look at this venture that that we're on together now, I think back at the time where I didn't even know you.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

I didn't that isn't that interesting though? And maybe that maybe maybe we can go down that trail today, like we kind of did know each other. I mean, we didn't know each other. I know I know what you're saying, but like you showed up in my life online at a at a very crucial, interesting, and massive point in the journey. I mean, I'm 35 years old, I'm publicly sharing that I've been diagnosed with stage four non-Hodgkin's lymphoma cancer. The oncologist is telling me I may only have a few months to live. I'm exploring all kinds of alternative treatments and therapies and going to other countries and looking into things way beyond just what met Western medicine had to offer me because well, I mean, they're looking me in the eye saying, Hey, we don't have a cure. This cancer is gonna kill you. So it's like, well, what do I have to really lose? Well, the thing is that the way the system works is none of that's covered by insurance. None of that's paid for. So here I am out there raising money. You see me online, you choose to engage, you step up, you host a fundraiser. I don't even remember all the details now, but I'm I'm pretty sure that's how it initially started.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

It was golf. It was a golf tournament.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

And this is 2015, 2016. We live here in the same city, then we find out that our children, maybe at a later date, I'm not sure exactly when they, Eli and Addison, connected and became friends. And of course, we've gone back and forth on, I think mostly like Facebook Messenger. It still kind of surprises me that until about a month ago, like I almost don't even believe my own story. Like, how had we not met in person?

SPEAKER_01 13:13

Yeah, I I don't I don't know the answer to that, but I was always intrigued. Um, and of course, you know, I just have a I don't know, I don't remember what Well, you want to talk about divine intervention and Chaz. I know what you're gonna say, and I also know what you're gonna say, but whatever we call it, whatever we label it, it's crazy to think that that my I was drawn to your need, not because I wanted to help somebody out, but I was just I was just drawn to feeling like I can raise a little money for you through the avenues that I have available to me. And I think that you're a good person, and I think that you could use some help. And um I I think that maybe um, you know, I can help you transition from from your need to hopefully being able to raise enough money to maybe get a cure or or resolve in your body, and maybe you can stay alive and be with your family and see your kids raise. And I don't know what drew me to that because you know we see we see things online all the time of people needing help or need, right? Yeah. And for whatever reason I was drawn into it, and but then but then as time go through as time went on, I also felt at some point you and I would connect deeper than just me helping or you having a need. I I always felt like I would know you at some point. I just didn't know in what form and I didn't know in what time. So jazzing, what would you call that?

SPEAKER_02 14:40

I would call that divine intervention. I mean, that's the simplest way to put it because that is in my understanding of faith, that is a higher power completely intervening and working in and through the situation. It's just a contract construct, sorry, the construct that I see that in is a deity, God. It's not the universe, it's not essence, it's not how could you have you know, I mean this sincerely, how could you have predicted what would happen between you guys and us, you know, for that matter?

SPEAKER_01 15:09

Like Yeah, so that's what I'm saying is I I I just I just feel like, you know, why while you're feeling the vibe and the things that you've been asking for and needing, I I also feel like maybe Chaz feels the same way. Maybe I feel I know I feel the same way.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah, on a different level. And then speaking to a lot of stuff that I it hits me deep, you know, not just like on a not not purely spiritual, but on a on a soul level. Like I understand half the things that you're talking about and going through outside of just talking about energy, vibration, essence. All those things I can hear in a different way and go, oh, I understand exactly what he's talking about. It's not it's not exactly the same way of thinking, but it's a very similar like drive-home, and that's what's always compelled me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

So, so so so for me, watching you coach and understanding your coaching and knowing the path that you've been on, and let's not even I mean, do you even want to dive into the finances? Like, like I you have been up and down with money, and money oftentimes makes us sick or heals us in some essence. But I mean, let's take us back to the beginning if you're if you're comfortable. Like, how has money I know people have helped and not helped, how has money been through the ebbs and flows of this journey from where you were and how you started and and your family as a as a small child to where we are now?

SPEAKER_00 16:33

No, I I think it's a fantastic question, and I mean it's it's a it's a giant element of pretty much all of us for our everyday lives. Like, you know, you know what I mean? Like it it I I think one gentleman said, you know, like money isn't everything, but it kind of ranks up there next to food and oxygen. You know, like it it's pretty difficult to function and move about planet Earth and and live and and do the things that we need to do for ourselves and for our families and such without having the money component arrive and be there. And yeah, I've had I've had a wild and crazy journey around that. And I mean, um, in in many ways, I've I've I've done very, very well, probably, you know, uh a lot better and and earned a lot more and had a lot more money come into my uh life than than maybe a a huge percentage of people around the world. But at the same time, you know, I know there's people that's obviously even done way better than I have. I think for me, what I what what's taken me several decades to finally discover and notice and like the patterns that I'm now very clear on is it just seemed like my ups and downs, the the roller coaster of like, you know, I I I would describe it this way. I I think I was really, really good at making money. It seemed like I didn't really know how to keep any of it.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

And um, and for many, many years, like that has been very, very frustrating. And I'm sure it was even more frustrating for my poor wife, Caroline, you know, um, especially being a woman uh w wanting and desiring some type of consistency, safety, um, you know, feeling of, hey, things are gonna be okay, stability, etc.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

But which makes her feel safe, which draws that stronger connection.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, at the end of the day, the word that's been coming up for me recently is just stewardship. Like, what would it look like to have a calm nervous system and to be grounded and to clearly just see money is a tool, money is necessary for planet Earth. I don't want to over-exalt it, but I don't want to undervalue it. I just want it to be a healthy component, and I don't want to be owned by it, but I also don't want to see it as bad or evil or as my enemy because that's not going to serve me well either.

SPEAKER_01 18:59

Do you think something happened in your childhood that that didn't that that didn't allow you to think of money properly, therefore not being able to keep the money that you made?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I I do actually. Yeah. I I think I think most likely we all pick up things around money, especially from our parents and in our home environment, and then you know, maybe in school situations, or maybe if we're around grandparents or other family members. But in my particular case, I feel like one of the the predominant things that I was picking up as a child is my mom pretty much lived in kind of a chronic state of unhappiness. And I don't say that to put her down, it's just more of like a statement of fact, you know, where she was at in her human journey and the tools that she really didn't have available to her. Uh she was trying to figure out and process all of the internal turmoil, let's just say, that she was dealing with that probably came from her childhood. But the the thing that I heard and the thing that I felt so often is my perception. Again, this is what I perceived as a kid. I'm not even saying it's 100% accurate. I'm just saying it became my truth. I felt like that what she was always upset about was that my dad didn't make enough money. And it it appeared you felt that. You heard that you heard that. Oh, yeah, she was very vocal about it, you know, and she was very um abrupt emotionally, you know, and and things could could trigger her, and and at least I say this often, you know, I think kids are really, really good observers. I'm not sure we're very good interpreters. And so, again, I acknowledge I maybe didn't interpret what was really going on as well as I could have, but my interpretation was, man, if my dad would just make more money, my mom would finally be happy and she wouldn't be in such a bad mood and she wouldn't yell or slam doors or get upset or whatever, you know? And so here's the thing it wasn't until I was in my 40s that I realized that my subconscious mind, my nervous system, my brain, every part of my being associated the idea that in order to be happy, in order to be in a good mood, in order to be content, in order to live a great life, the answer was more money.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

That's how you that's what you thought.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah. And it and it was and I thought, and it was so real that I couldn't even see like how real it had become in my own life, but I just kept noticing these patterns, and I just kept seeing the ups and downs of you know, seven-figure net worth and then lose it all, and then rebuild it, and then lose it again. And you know, like why was that happening? And if the if the main reason we're here is for the liberation and freedom and evolution of our soul to grow into the greatest version of ourselves that we can be, then it Totally makes sense because I'm convinced at this point I I could have been a billionaire and my brain would have still been saying to me, Well, it's not billionaire status that brings happy and content. It's you need to be worth five billion or ten billion. Like I'm blown away at how the mind thinks it knows the exact way in which it's going to deliver you this thing that you feel like you want and need, and yet it really is dramatically confused. Like it didn't matter what level I achieved financially, what I now realize is that every fiber in my being thought it's not this level, it's the next level. And I thought it was always about more, no matter what level I was at.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

And listen, I think I think you need to hone in here. I think you need to really dial in and tap into this. I think you're speaking to a lot of successful men right now. I know I was one of those. I was one of those who, and I, you know, hearing you talk about your upbringing reminds me my upbringing was very similar. I I was around family who bought big things airplanes, boats, lake houses, uh trips. They built memories with money. And so I made I've made a lot of money in my life. I I don't you wouldn't think if you looked at my bank account right now, it's not huge. I'm not poor, but it's not huge. You know why? I bought planes, lake houses, boats. I was trying to create memories. But I think what I what my point, my my major point here is I think most successful men are men who define success by their profession or their bank account. They are never, I was never satisfied with the amount of money. Ever. And I think it's I something happens in our childhood that causes us when we're adults to never be content with money. We always need the bigger plane, we always need the lake house with a better view, we always need to take our trip, uh our families to this island instead of that island.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah, and I I don't the answer is not like to be anti-nice things. The the the answer is certainly not to think, oh, I don't want to have abundance or a lot of money. Like, that's another interesting thing. Like, I would love to meet men who have some sense like something is off inside. They're still very successful, they still have incredible wealth, they're still doing very, very well financially. Men, if you're listening out there, you don't have to lose all your money before you find me. Like, that's what happened to me. Like, I unconsciously made then the assumption, I think, multiple times, that, well, money must be then the reason. So at first I thought more money was going to get me the peace, get me the contentment, get me the happiness. Well, then when I got the money and I still wasn't happy and I still wasn't at peace and I still wasn't contentment, unconsciously then it wouldn't you agree, Brian? Like it was a pretty easy assumption to go, oh then it must be the opposite. I don't it must be that, you know, money must be bad or something, right? Because we've all heard that. The root of all evil is, you know, money, and money doesn't grow on trees, and money's bad, and you know never have enough. Yeah, exactly. And so then I then I lost all my money. And I'm like and then it took me a while, but it's like, oh shit. I still okay, wait, so wait a second. A lot of money, some money, no money. What is the same? No contentment, no peace, no happiness. Ooh, what if this has nothing to do with money? Say that again. What if it has nothing to do with money? But I really, really think most people, maybe not consciously, definitely men, if we just watched their patterns, if we looked at how they invested their time, if we looked at their behavior, it would probably say that they think it's all about money. You know, and they're not meaning to. I'm not saying that like with any judgment or that I'm thinking that they're doing anything wrong.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Well, even me describing I've made a lot of money in my life, um, but you wouldn't look at, you know, if you looked at my bank account now, and then I preface that by saying, but I'm not poor, why did I feel the need to say that?

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Because you were at one point, probably.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Well, I think Yeah, but I I think it's because we we our identity a lot of times is wrapped up in our financial stats.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

And I still don't want to look good. I don't yeah, and I don't I don't wanna I feel like that's not who I am today.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Well, but I think it also we we feel like it reflects and says something about us success. Or just about who we are as people, or whether we're doing a good job, or if we're getting it right, or if people respect us. You know, like is there anything more embarrassing than for a guy to especially if at one time he had success and he had money, and then what if he makes a mistake, or what if he loses a bunch of money, or what if 2020 happens? Or what if he goes lost in trading? Or what if he goes and thinks this investment idea is fantastic and gets scammed? Or what if someone takes advantage of him? Or what if he genuinely actually had a great business idea, but it just didn't come together and didn't work out and he loses a bunch of money? Like, is there really a whole lot of I I can't hardly think of another category, man, where men can feel more shame, more embarrassment, more guilt, more failure, more just deep, deep internal pain. Right? And I have to say, for me, like just being open and vulnerable and honest and letting people if if if someone needs to say something about me because they can't handle my humanity and the fact that it's messy, and that, yeah, sometimes, like, sure, with the wisdom that I have now, would I go back and make the same exact decisions I've made with money? Well, of course not. Right. But that's not how life's lived. We look backwards in reflection to gain insight and wisdom, but we have to live live it going forward in the unknown. I I just I think at the end of the day, like I'm starting to see money uh as just a beautiful wave of energy.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

How do you coach that though? Like, how do you tell that successful entrepreneur, that successful stock trader, that successful accountant who can't count his own money? How do you tell that person who's really struggling with either saving money, um, spending too much money, um, mismanaging money? Like that is usually the epicenter of a lot of men's pain. How do you talk them off the ledge? How do you create chemistry with somebody and teach them that money um can be a healer if managed right, if thought of right, if perceived differently?

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Well, I think first and foremost, it's it's helping them reveal the unconscious psychological, financial prisons that they've been locked in that probably got developed during their upbringing and functions in their operating system and they don't realize it. Like what none of us can do anything about stuff we're oblivious to. Like I didn't realize that my operating system was always the answer is more until I realized that I had an operating system that was always telling me the answer was more.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

But isn't that everyone doesn't everyone to some capacity believe it what they have will never be enough?

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Listen, I don't disagree with you, Chaz. I really don't. You're I yeah, that that that probably is I disagree.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

No, I because I think females are built so different than that. Females are not about the well they say majority.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Okay, but look, maybe you're both correct. I think maybe what maybe what Chaz is talking about is that that feeling of not enough, maybe it doesn't show up with money as much for women. I I I could see that. Well then why but don't you think the same feeling though still exists in them? But maybe they feel it stronger through not being a good enough mom or maybe not being beautiful enough.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

So you're saying it manifests itself in a different way? Like in other words, the insecurity might manifest itself through the roots of like, okay, for example, like the stereotype that women love to go shop, right? Why do we associate it that way? It's not just because of like some era.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

You know, there's some there is something deeper to that, you know, and I I think part of it is, you know, if you know what you've just changed my mind right in this moment. Really? I think you're right. I think we do make up these like stereotypes. I bet deep down, I bet women also do feel like there's not enough. And I bet it is in the money case.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

I think that's a human trait. I don't I think I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

I really genuinely do. Maybe it just hasn't shown up as obvious, or maybe Yeah, I don't I'd have to sit with this for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 31:42

Think of the makeup industry, for example. Why are so many women insecure about the way they look? Right? If if I didn't feel confident in who I was, I would immediately, and I'm speaking as a guy here because I'm I'm a little bit bigger, so I know what it feels like to want to lose 20 pounds. I know what it feels like, by the way, for all my viewers that can't see. My hair's thinning. Okay. I I feel insane.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

It's not thinning, it's it's it's almost gone. Yeah. You still have more than Barlow and I. You still have more than Barlow and I.

SPEAKER_02 32:15

I'm proud of that, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 32:17

You should.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

I mean I will always be proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

You're young enough to be our son. So it's true.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

It's true. But I think my point is like what you're getting at too, Ryan, is it's not you're just you're not just talking about something that only guys experience. You're not talking about something that only shows up or manifests itself through, you know, oh, I feel uh, you know, bad about myself, so I'm gonna go eat myself into oblivion. Okay, like that's something everyone experiences, not just guys, not just girls. And I think what it goes back to, I was gonna point to, um, which being me, I'm gonna say this, but I'm gonna go back to that scripture that says the heart is deceitful. The heart knows what it wants. And that is to our own fault. It's not always the best thing for us because But why does the heart need more shopping?

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Why does the heart need to be more beautiful? Why does the heart need more money?

SPEAKER_02 33:08

It and that's that that's the thing. It doesn't. That's the point.

SPEAKER_01 33:10

And I'm sure Where did that come from, though?

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Scripture. Uh the I forgot.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

I know leaving the scripture out of it. Damn you and your scripture, Chaz. Leaving the scripture out of it. How did the heart, how did we I g I guess what I'm trying to get to is how do we get to the point that we need more? Whether it's women, whether it's a man, like how what transpires in our lives that we feel like we're not content.

SPEAKER_02 33:36

We said at some point, and I can't say just in our own lives, I would say for all of humanity, we've chosen to say, no, what I have isn't good enough. And I'll tell you where it started. Adam and Eve. What happened? What happened, Barlow? Yeah, I I get I get your story. Do you see what I'm saying? It's not just it's not just something that was like, oh, I I learned it from my parents. Like this is this is something deeper. This goes back to the fall of humanity.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Do you think people in Thailand, do you think the women there have the same shopping feel that the women in America have?

SPEAKER_02 34:13

I think cultural differences are, you know, that's that's that's where it lies. It's it's not the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Like I could like So do you think do you do you think that Christ doesn't like Thailand women as much as American women?

SPEAKER_02 34:25

Okay, and that's just out of context, bro.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Well, I'm just I'm just saying I don't know I think it's a very valid point.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Well, what do you mean by that? What because uh you know, you can't just say God picks favorites. You know, that's what it sounds like you're saying.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

I am saying that. I based on what what you you're suggesting is that you know, Adam the whole Adam and Eve story, which isn't bought in Thailand by their culture, so does that omit them and uh and and the hundreds of millions of people that are in Thailand?

SPEAKER_02 34:53

No, I mean just because you believe something isn't true doesn't make it not true. I mean, you can choose to say, I don't believe this is true, and still be it true. Do you see what I'm saying? And that's my framework is I believe the Bible is true. I believe Jesus was a prophet.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

We know.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

So in if you're looking at it through that framework, no, I don't think Jesus is picking favors. I think he's saying, I wish you could see what I'm seeing, because I don't think you realize what it is you're doing. And I think that's going back to what Ryan said.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

But why don't the women in Thailand, why don't they have the desire that the women in America have to shop in abundance?

SPEAKER_02 35:30

It manifests itself differently.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Well, let me let me share. So no, the heart is not deceitful. It's not. What we have is we have a container called our mind that most humans live from. And that container gets contaminated based on the environment. If you take someone's access to the internet away, their behavior is going to change. If someone is not constantly being exposed to an environment of consumption, advertising, commercials, propaganda, propaganda, they're not going to behave the same way as people who are.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

So I agree with you.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

That that that sounds so logical to me. Right. That doesn't have anything to do with our hearts.

SPEAKER_02 36:27

And but here's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Like we don't, we weren't, we weren't born defected. What we were born into was the ability to be influenced.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

So I think what you're saying to a degree is true, because you're right, your mind is a container, right? But let me ask you this then. How did we get to the point, and maybe Ryan, you do have an answer to this, and this is what I want to know. How did we get to the point where, to your logic, you're saying our mind's a container, we're influenced by the things around us? How did all of a sudden everyone get to this point? Not just one or two people, because we're not just talking only about wealthy men or women. We're talking about everyone that has this feeling, right? I have a feeling that maybe I should lose 20 or 30, right? Because I know the effect that's gonna have on my body, and I'm also insecure about it by the way I look in public. Okay, it's not a really fun thing to walk around with, okay?

SPEAKER_01 37:20

But at the same time, for you, Chaz, for being vulnerable by the way.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

Well, that's just being proud easy to say. That's well, what I'm being real about.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Don't you don't you think though it's kind of complex? Like, I mean, I hear that, and the first thing that comes up for me is I would love to just ask you a few questions because it might be, it could be a a a handful of things. I mean, what if you genuinely realized that maybe you didn't even really feel like you had knowledge or education about what you should be eating or what it would look like to be a lighter version of yourself? So I really think for some people, I can speak to this in my own life. There were times that I I was just ignorant. And there's a big difference between being, hold on, Chaz, between being ignorant and stupid. Okay. So that's just one possibility. Or what if actually through questioning, through discovery, through helping you realize, you know, different possibilities, what if there was something that um you discovered about your upbringing that caused you to realize that you unconsciously need the feeling of added protection? And the way that that manifested physically is you carry extra weight, but you had never been able to make the correlation between wanting a extra layer of protection, that there was some component of you that didn't feel safe, that it was more of an emotional thing. And what if when you uncovered that and worked through that, what if all of a sudden that sent a different signal to your body? And what if in your particular case it didn't come down to even diet or anything? It came down to the emotional energetic field that you live from that you were unaware of.

SPEAKER_02 39:04

Yeah, I think that's I think that's very a lot of that's very true. I think though the word, I again, I'm verbiage is weird. I'm I'm I'm weird with the hang-up of the word like field, but I understand exactly what you're saying. Based on your environment that you're in, those those surrounding factors do have an effect on you and it manifest itself in a way that, yeah, if you're not getting the support you need, you're gonna be depressed.

SPEAKER_01 39:24

Chaz, do you did did it do you feel do you feel that you have the weight as an extra layer of protection?

SPEAKER_02 39:30

You know, I I if it's okay, I do want to talk about that for a second because I I I didn't notice it until I was about 19 or 20. And that was two years after I remember my mom called me over the phone while I was with my uncle in uh Los Angeles, and she said, Hey, I'm I just wanted to let you know, uh, you know, I I'm leaving your dad, and I'm I've already made my decision. I'm not gonna come back. I'm taking, you know, I'm taking the girls with me, you know, which is you know my my sisters. And uh, you know, I just want to let you know, this has nothing to do with you, it's not personal.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

And you're not in a relationship at this point.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

Uh with with his mom calling him.

SPEAKER_01 40:17

This is this is my mom. I know, but you're not in a relationship whenever this happens. Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

This is he's not he didn't have a girlfriend's with a master.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

No, no, I'm gonna go. I was like, I was like confused, Bartle. I'm like You're confused. He's not in a relationship with his mom. No. No.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

I have a I have a point to this question after you finish. I just wanted to know the answer to that.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

So what I noticed was after that point, I noticed I was eating out a lot because I was so tired. I felt like I couldn't do anything. I'm like, I need something that makes me feel good and I need it right now. And I didn't want to go to smoking, I didn't want to go to marijuana, I didn't want to go to drugs, I didn't want to do anything like that. I I I lived my life in a way I'm like, I want to be holy, pure, spotless, blameless. Okay. And yet I had suffered with a lot of what the same thing most guys do go through, which is when they're depressed and they repress it. They try to eat and they don't even realize what they're doing is actually killing them. Like I remember I have a couple memories where I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna go to bed. I'm gonna get two Whataburgers and like canes at one point.

SPEAKER_01 41:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

That'll kill you.

SPEAKER_02 41:26

Uh well, I'm still here, aren't I?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Well, this is what I find so interesting. How in society certain things are on the approved list and other things are not. Like we demonize men who look at porn, we demonize men who did insider training, we demonize men who have affairs, we demonize men who are alcoholics, we demonize men who, you know, maybe explored drugs or smoking or whatever. We don't really demonize men who overeat.

SPEAKER_02 42:06

Well, there's a saying that I always go by and that's gluttony. Yeah, and that there's a there's a saying I go by, and that is don't love uh, you know, don't don't hate the sinner. Hate sin. Like hate the thing. Basically, if we're talking in this framework, hate the very thing that's killing you, not the person that is killing you. Yeah, so it's really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 42:29

I just had a coaching session yesterday, and the main point of conversation for an hour and a half was how frustrated this human was with what they called their sugar addiction, which is food addiction. And once again, I I just I I I don't know. Is is this an unorthodox approach or have I tapped into something that actually fucking works? But I I just don't know that hating something is the avenue to freedom. Like I just I I just that isn't add up for me. Do you hate eating, Chaz?

SPEAKER_02 43:10

It's not that you hate eating, it's you hate the disordered eating, meaning that you're eating so much that you're repressing and suppressing your emotions. In other words, you're replacing, you're filling that void with something that doesn't benefit you uh in when when it's out of context. Like eating is great, but if I had a 5,000 calorie meal three times a day, do you see the problem with that?

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Do you understand the dynamics of calories and calories? Absolutely. So so let me ask you this you're leaning on food for comfort.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

I did. Not still do, I did.

SPEAKER_01 43:43

Okay. How did you get out of that?

SPEAKER_02 43:48

I think the biggest thing to get out of it was not trying to figure out why I was in it. But instead realize the feelings that were associated with With why I was doing and I I felt a conviction about it at one point. Um I felt of I felt a very deep conviction, hey, this isn't right. Something in my heart told me this isn't right.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

Um or you could just look in the mirror.

SPEAKER_02 44:15

You didn't really need to look in your heart, you could have just looked in the mirror and well my point is I knew before it manifested in the mirror something was wrong.

SPEAKER_00 44:24

You could just look at how you felt, you could just look at the fact you couldn't stay focused, you could look at the fact that you wanted to take a nap every afternoon.

SPEAKER_01 44:31

Like he stopped hating himself though, is what uh what uh if you're listening, like he to your point, he's not hating it.

SPEAKER_00 44:39

I agree. He was he was looking for what actually was causing him to go to food instead of setting in whatever feelings or emotions or demonizing himself coming up.

SPEAKER_02 44:52

Yeah, yeah, and you should never hate yourself, you should never be like, you know, hurting yourself because you don't like something about you. I mean, people experience this on the daily.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

I think that seems kind of silly. Like, that's why like that saying, like, you know, hate this sin. That is the stupidest fucking saying in the history of the universe. Like, that's so ridiculous. Nobody's not nobody can do that, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 45:17

Well, should you not hate eating 5,000 calories a meal? No. If it hurts you, well, no, but if you know it hurts you.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

But listen, what about the what about the guys or the girls that are out there eating five, seven, ten thousand calories a week? Right, like we're not here to shame them. Well, well, and maybe they're doing it with intentional purpose of building muscle.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Or maybe they don't even know they're doing it at all, and there's something deeper. They're blinded by their insecurity, they're blinded by depression, they're blinded by the fact that there was something deeper that they have not addressed, right? So if, for example, I wasn't able to properly address, I was really freaking depressed because the way that my mom left, the perception of the mom that I knew was not the mom that I know in that reality. So I didn't properly come to turn come to terms with the fact that this person who I'd known for 18 years, not only do they come across as a different person, this is the same person that is still here today that I never really knew.

SPEAKER_00 46:18

That puts a lot of pressure on your mom.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 46:20

100%. What I want to say though, real quick, back to what I was telling you, is that like this idea that I'm going to hate something I'm doing, and that that my mind is going to be able to distinguish, though, that I don't hate myself, that's a misunderstanding about what we already do.

SPEAKER_02 46:35

You should never hate yourself, though. That's the thing. Why would you want to hate yourself?

SPEAKER_00 46:39

You're you're missing the whole point, Chaz. I'm telling you, go study science. Go study the mind. Go study from people that have actually learned how the mind and humanity actually works. And I really think what you would discover is the mind can't tell the difference between I hate something I'm doing and not translating that to a thinking of I hate myself. That's what I'm expecting. Are you following me, Barb?

SPEAKER_02 47:07

Absolutely not. I'm a little confused, but I think I know, I think I know the track that you're on, so keep going.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Like, if you hate something you do, your mind interprets that as I hate myself.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

As reality, too. Period. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

That's why I will say it again. Hate the sin, don't hate the sinner. Stupid saying. It is completely fundamentally makes zero sense when you actually take the time to understand how the mind works, how the brain works, how we're physiologically wired as humans, and how things are interpreted internally. Like Chaz, Chaz, you proved it though in your own theories. He did. He did.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

That's I don't think that's what you're opening yourself up to. Hold on, Chaz. Let Barlow finish. Hold on. I I think I I think if you would just take out a take out some of the the guardrails that you've put for yourself and the labels and the titles and understand that you literally on your own recognance, you realized what your body and your mind was doing, and you took yourself out of it. You you stopped hating yourself, you stopped lady labeling the the eating and all the things that you were doing to your body, you rationalized it, you were able to think logically, and you got yourself out of that mindset on your own.

SPEAKER_02 48:27

So I would say I didn't. And this is where I think we disagree, like uh fundamentally, because I don't think that I personally got myself out of it on my own willpower.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Then what did it? What what helps?

SPEAKER_02 48:39

It was I mean, it was conviction from the Holy Spirit. That's that is how I know how to describe it.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

It was why are so many Christians fat then and overweight and unhealthy and obese?

SPEAKER_02 48:48

Well, that's like saying, why does why does God not heal people with cancer? Why did God not heal with it? Why doesn't he?

SPEAKER_00 48:53

Why doesn't he? Well, yeah, it's a great question. Why doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Well, you could go on that tangent all day.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

No, no, no. I'm asking you, why why doesn't he?

SPEAKER_02 49:02

You never know what God is going to do through someone's journey. My granddad passed away because of cancer. Why didn't God just heal him immediately?

SPEAKER_00 49:09

I'm asking you. No, no, no. I'm gonna what do you believe? Don't throw the question back. I want to know if you're on the spot and you have to answer the question, in your opinion, why doesn't God heal everyone of cancer? Why do two million people a year have to die? Why do kids have to grow up without a dad? Why does a wife have to be left a widow in their 20s or 30s? Why do people lose their sons or their daughters or their brothers or their sisters? Why doesn't God heal them?

SPEAKER_02 49:40

Because God can choose to withhold his grace if he should.

SPEAKER_00 49:45

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

I here's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 49:50

Why would we why would anyone with a logical brain buy into that statement?

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Because look at the story of Job.

SPEAKER_01 49:58

No, I I'm not you can't take me back to history.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

You can't take me back. He has a hard time just having like personal conversation. It's always having to be filtered through something he's parroting or regurgitating from someone else. Like he can't ever just own it for a while.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Chad, if you just have a logical conversation with somebody and take scripture and take faith out of it.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Yeah, just remove that for one second. We're not asking you to not believe it. Just have a fucking just talk to us. Just be you instead of having to quote stories and go back and justify and just be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Be just say that is that that is me, though. What I'm saying is me. It's not like what I'm regarding.

SPEAKER_00 50:39

He he thinks I don't know that he's confused. I I just I think he's so I think it's a misidentification. Who he thinks he is is wrapped up in his programming, in his conditioning, in his framework. He thinks so then he has to function from that place because he has to constantly make himself right.

SPEAKER_01 51:02

And I don't and I don't fault him for that. No, no, no. But but in some instances, Chase, you there has to be some arguments and and the conversations that happen here have to make you question like if you're a logical, intelligent, sane person, and I know that you are, and someone says, Why, why, why do you know millions of people die of cancer and and and they're widows?

SPEAKER_02 51:31

And so you want me to give you the philosophical answer, not the like me answer. Because that what I'm giving you is the me answer, right? This is how I've been not like you the way you say it, this is how I've been conditioned, this is how I've been programmed, this is how I see the world, right? I think most people are gonna say this is how they most people with my framework are gonna say, this is how I see the world. I see myself as a child of God. I don't see myself as just essence or existing. I see myself as separate from the deity God, right? And if I'm looking at it from that framework, then I'm looking at it with the lens that there was a Jesus, there was a real prophet, there was a real Messiah, and history does back all of that up. So if Jesus did not exist, there is not a God, and we're all screwed, okay?

SPEAKER_00 52:13

Why are we screwed if there's not a God, by the way?

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Because God chose to Are the people of Thailand screwed? Well, it's not people in Thailand, it's not a culture. You can't put that on a culture.

SPEAKER_01 52:24

But it is if he's if he's the almighty of one world, correct.

SPEAKER_02 52:28

You can't put that on a culture, though.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

It's a double talk.

SPEAKER_02 52:31

You have to put it on people. It is each person's decision. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 52:35

Let's go back to Let me ask the question. Why did God heal me? It's been 10 years now, so times two million. Okay. So since I got diagnosed, approximately 20 million people have passed away of cancer. Why am I alive, healthy, and well, and they're not?

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Because God's not done with your story.

SPEAKER_00 52:57

So he was done with 20 million other people's story? That's a short answer. That's so mean if he is.

SPEAKER_01 53:03

That's not the guy that I opinion. Are you saying that's not the God I was taught to know? Are you?

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Are you are you willing to go and meet with all the families and all the people who are grieving, hurting, confused, lost, no dad, no sister, no husband, no wife, can't explain it. And you're just gonna tell them and go, Story's over. Story's over. I mean, come on, get over your sins.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

No, but here's what I will say to anyone that is listening. I'm looking right at the camera when I say this. To anyone that is listening to this show and you have a family member or you yourself are experiencing that, first of all, I am so, so sorry that you're experiencing this. No one should be experiencing what you are going through right now. That does not negate God's plan and purpose for your life. And if you are that family member who has lost someone, God's not done writing your story. That's all I want to say.

SPEAKER_00 53:54

Doesn't that just contradict what you just said 45 seconds ago?

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Not at all.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Because what I'm actually God's not done writing their story, but he was done with the person that died writing theirs.

SPEAKER_02 54:06

You don't know how God is going to use someone else's story, right? In other words, you don't know why things happen in this trouble. Like that's another scripture I look at that's very logical to me. In this world, we do have trouble, but we take heart because in our framework, Jesus Christ has overcome the world. So there is no reason to fear. There should not be a reason to fear even death itself, right? And this is the thing. Why do people get cancer? We don't really know why.

SPEAKER_00 54:32

I really like I just feel like you can never actually just answer the question.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Yeah, you just can't have a logical conversation that that ends in some kind of understanding that's not a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 54:42

Barrow, why don't you ask me? Why don't you ask me? What do you want me to ask you? The same thing.

SPEAKER_01 54:49

Like the the the logic the logics of of you know people dying.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

Uh okay, first of all, any explanation that I am going to try to give probably still falls short. Like the most honest answer is I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:07

And that's what I was gonna say. We don't know, except for the fact that in scripture we're told, right? And this is my framework here scripture tells us not to trust we're trusting in God with all of our heart to not lean on our own understanding. So that is a that is a really good response. We don't know.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

I want to go back, but you're not comfortable with that though, by the way, just just to be clear. You're comfortable with what? You're not comfortable with the honest answer of I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

No, I am. That's the thing. I am comfortable saying I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

I think he's comfortable, but on the premise that we're gonna listen to his version of how we're wrong. Yes. So Chaz, I do want to I don't know if it's a the Chaz. I want to go, I want to go back to your story with we were talking about abundance, we're talking about money. Yep. I I don't want to get into you two, you two get on these tirades almost at least every other podcast about you know this the spiritual spiritual morality of who's right and who's wrong.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

It makes for good content, right?

SPEAKER_01 56:05

It does make for good content, but I don't want to I don't want to lose sight over the fact that I think you're very, very vulnerable with this right now, and I really appreciate it. I think you're vulnerable with the people that are watching.

SPEAKER_02 56:14

Did I happy to share it?

SPEAKER_01 56:16

And I think that they probably I think there's a lot of people but that probably relate to your story. The reason that I asked if you were in a relationship during that conversation is because I would think that you would lean on that relationship instead of leaning on food. You leaned on food to get through some tough times.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

No, and I wouldn't even Okay, I I'm love I love you, Courtney. I would not lean on you for that. I would lean on my understanding of who God is, not on my someone.

SPEAKER_01 56:39

But you didn't.

SPEAKER_02 56:39

But because I didn't have someone, no, I did lean on God after the fact.

SPEAKER_01 56:43

You were unhappy, you were miserable, you ate food. That's how you got through it. You weren't leaning on God, bro.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

You could say I wasn't.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

The proof's in the pudding.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

But my point is I would literal pudding. So are you saying that you believe that if you close yourself off to God completely You hated your life, you were depressed.

SPEAKER_01 56:59

How's that working?

SPEAKER_00 57:00

We're just regurgitating the words you already said earlier on this episode, and you're getting so defensive.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

So if I relax relax. Well, I uh I'm just trying to share being attacked. I'm I don't sense I'm being attacked for the purpose of discussion. Yeah, I'm not sensing I'm being attacked, I'm just trying to get it.

SPEAKER_00 57:14

But your tone and energetic field is revealing something different. You're safe, buddy. We love you.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

So here's my defense.

SPEAKER_00 57:22

Even by that, you can't even let me finish. Like you're so wanting to defend and talk and put noise into the air. Just exhale.

SPEAKER_01 57:32

Think beyond the noise, Chaz. Think beyond the noise. You you do have a tendency, you do have a tendency to listen to respond and instead of listening to comprehend. I do notice that about you, but I also noticed that notice that about you know eight 70 to 80 percent of people who label themselves as Christians, they're very ego, eager to tell you the scripture and and how you're wrong.

SPEAKER_00 57:55

Yes. Yeah, they might need to spend more time on that scripture verse. Slow to speak, quick to listen. Maybe if they spent more time understanding why people see it different, it might change things.

SPEAKER_01 58:15

Very good, Chance. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 58:20

You want me to continue? Do you want to just sit in the silence for a second?

SPEAKER_01 58:24

I I'm good with the silence. I think it's good for all of us. And actually, let's do that. Let's just sit in the silence when you're ready and you think you're you you've heard, and you're not gonna go back to the the scripture and all the stuff that you spewed a thousand times on this podcast already.

SPEAKER_00 58:42

Yeah, just just just just respond without needing to do all that.

SPEAKER_02 58:50

So I wasn't relying on myself when I got out of it. When I was in it, I didn't know I was not pushing God away because I had experienced so much trauma that it's easy for the human heart to say God's not real. And it's easy to say that. You know why? Because for the same story that you have, Ryan, with being on your deathbed, it's very easy to say, because of what I've been through, God is not real. And I knew in my heart that was a lie.

SPEAKER_00 59:30

He's not saying that. Yeah. It's really interesting how it always comes back to that. I really need to help clarify here. Chaz, the version of God that you describe with your words is what makes you believe that what you're interpreting from me is that I'm saying that that's not real.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

You did, however, say you rejected Jesus, okay? So I I'm gonna go on that.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

I don't know that I've ever heard him say the words I reject Jesus. I have. Have you?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:05

I mean whether I have or I haven't, I I I don't know. You said what I reject is that you have to, like, using Christian terms or words, the people that say you have to believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, because you are a sinner, your heart is wicked and flawed, you need to be saved, and you must believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior in order to get into the afterlife of a place we call heaven. Yes, I reject that ideology and that belief. If you interpreted that as I reject Jesus, you're free to do that. I personally love the teachings of Jesus. I garnish a ton of wisdom. I don't necessarily have any to desire any desire to debate whether he was a real person or not, because the wisdom that I garnish from his teachings do not require me to know whether he was real or not. Because all I'm after is wisdom that I can apply in my relationships, in my health, in the money categories of my life, in everyday interactions, and that I can tangibly be able to feel through all of my senses that my life is better, my life is more peaceful, I have more content, there's more love, harmony, joy, I'm handling challenges with greater insight, I'm navigating difficulty, you know, in in better ways, and I extract from the teachings of Jesus. So, yes, if if if we go back to what I said, if it's that exact belief, then yes, I do reject that. If you want to interpret that as I reject Jesus, you are free to do that. That is not how I would choose to interpret it, but I don't own your interpretation. Were you laying on your deathbed rejecting Jesus? Well, I was laying on my deathbed simultaneously at a at a time where another person at the church that I was attending at the time was also diagnosed with late-stage cancer. And I found it really, really interesting that so many people I was interacting with because I was so public with my journey, even in the first few months, there were lots and lots of people that were telling me about their brother or their sister or their daughter or their mom or their aunt or their friend or their boss. I was finding out about all kinds of other people who were dealing with cancer. And I just kept noticing more and more and more and more lots of people who were just saying that they were praying and they were believing that God was gonna heal them and that God, you know, it's really interesting. When the person with cancer is still alive, they a lot of these Christians say things like, God's gonna heal you, God's not done with you, uh, you know, all of the I mean, faith, all you have to have is faith like a mustard seed. You just gotta believe, you gotta have hope, and all this, that, and whatever. And then I guess the prayers fall on deaf ears, or he's got a different plan. We'll get to you in a second, Chaz. I see your hand raised over there. This ain't fucking kidding.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

I got a good thought on this. We know you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:42

We know you always have a thought on everything. But anyway, the point is that it just became very apparent to me that there must be more to all of this than you get diagnosed with cancer and then you just pray to a deity in the sky, and then you hope you're one of the very few lucky ones that doesn't die like 20 million people have in the last 10 years. And so that just didn't add up. So that made me go, maybe I just don't have full understanding. Maybe there's more to all of this than I've ever been led to believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

So it's not like you were rejecting faith. You were just trying to find on your own recognition how to stay alive. Whereas someone in the bed uh next to you is dependent on faith and prayer, and and and sometimes you're suggesting that didn't always work, but your methodology worked.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:33

Well, well, here's here's what's interesting. How hard is it to just sit in a room and say that you're just gonna wait for a deity in the sky to heal you? Like you didn't have to have any tough conversations with people that you were at odds with, you didn't have to let go of anger and resentment that you'd maybe built up towards somebody in your family that had hurt you. You didn't have to apologize for things that you know maybe you had done that had hurt others, you didn't have to deal with your food addiction, you didn't have to face the fact that you've mishandled money. Like what I actually did, in my opinion, to actually heal myself of dis-ease cancer, it's not easy. Like, I know a lot of people who never have the kind of conversations that I had with my brother-in-law, with my wife, with my parents, with my sibling, with close friends. I know people who never take personal responsibility and own what they've said, what they've done. I know a lot of people who just basically blame the world for their financial trouble and blame the system and never are willing to look at maybe where they unconsciously live in lack. And have not embraced a world of abundance. Like what I'm talking about doing from my point of view and my observation, it's way harder than just I'm just waiting for God to do it. I'm just waiting for the deity in the sky to do it. Like it feels like such a slap in the face knowing what I've had to go through, the courage I've had to have, the changes I've had to make, the addictions I had to work through. How much time, effort, energy, focus, internal pain, crying, tears, uh, how much effort by all the nights my wife stayed up comprehending reports, reading about blood work, studying the internet, understanding how this strand worked differently than that strand, how these supplements might potentially work. And this person had tried this and these therapies. And if you go to Mexico and how this works, and then I had to raise the money. And I mean, like, are you kidding me? And you wanna, you want to just narrow that down to God, some deity in the sky's not done with my story, but that deity just didn't have the same plan for 20 million other fucking people? Like, I don't really know of anything that feels more disgusting than to listen to humans who are unwilling to set aside everything they've been programmed to believe for a couple of years and go, until I can honestly look people in the eye and go, I have done my own interior work. I have faced all my own stuff. I understand how the mind works, I've studied quantum physics, I've looked into consciousness, I have devoured and spent hours instead of watching Netflix, instead of scrolling on my phone, instead of just numbing out to sports, like I've spent 10,000 hours or more trying to understand what it means to be human, and then people just want to parrot a fucking scripture verse and throw it in my face and act like that should just be sufficient? Okay, hold.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

Hold does any of that Chaz register with you from a human to human conversation? Can you appreciate and respect and I'm not even gonna ask you to admire, but can you appreciate and respect that side of the argument from his life experience that he so vastly had to take on on his own recognition, his own ability, his whole his own potential to survive and get out? He wasn't leaning on prayer faith, he was leaning on action. Did any of that resonate with you and make you think, damn, that's impressive?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

Yeah, actually it did. So I I I want to speak to two things here.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

Hold on. Can we just have that moment? Did he juice did you just hear what he said? He said yes. Let's just thank you, Jazz.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:29

You're welcome. Thank you. I I never I never wanted to come across like I, you know, don't validate what you're going through or what you did experience. Because I will say, what you experienced was traumatic, no one should ever have to experience what you did.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:44

So before you go on though, yeah, do you understand that did all that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Yes. Perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:52

Okay, go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

So when when I uh well before I get to what I'm gonna get to, I want to speak to one, maybe two things here. Um the first was you uh I think Ryan, I think you said something about uh healing and the way that um you perceive Christians perceive healing. I want to speak to that misconception because it is not every Christian believes they will be healed in this life, but the life to come. So I I do think it's admirable to think, oh yeah, the guy next to me, you know, he wasn't he wasn't relying on his own strength. He wasn't relying on if I only say this, if I only think this, if I only believe this, if I only do this. He was relying on there is nothing left for me that I can do on my willpower. Therefore, I have accepted my faith. I am choosing to believe in God as a separate higher power because I have the faith that I do.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:11

Sounds lazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:13

It's lazy, but it sounds like, but it's easy. And here's the thing the reason it's so easy is because to try to understand everything about us would take centuries, if not like millions of billions. It transcends time to understand who we are as humans. So it is easy and logical to say I don't I don't think it's necessary for me to try to understand everything.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:48

Therefore, I I think yeah, I I think it is easier to say I really I really just then I don't want to hear any more complaining. I don't want to hear about anyone's suffering, I don't want to hear about what they don't like, I don't want to hear about what they're frustrated about. I really don't. Like I have zero tolerance.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:10

Do you think I'm complaining?

SPEAKER_00 1:12:11

No, no, you're missing the point. Oh. If if you're going to argue that it's not necessary to learn about what it means to be human, then shut the fuck up constantly. Like you have absolutely no place then. You better be happy, joyous, content, good to go, and just love everything. You don't, yeah, kind, generous, tolerant, big tippers, understanding, like all the deals. Because if you are saying that it is not necessary to learn at a fundamental level as much as you possibly can about what it means to be human, you better never bitch again. And I'm not just talking about you, Chaz. I'm talking about anyone that, whether they consciously or unconsciously live in that philosophy, because my observation is you've put language to it, but I think people do want, they think they want the easy road. They think that it's unnecessary. But in my opinion, those are the people that bitch complain and moan the most. And I find that really interesting that the people who don't want to take any responsibility, don't want to spend their time, energy, effort, and don't see it as a vital part of the human experience of trying to learn, trying to educate, trying to get more awareness around, yeah, how does this whole thing work? How does the mind and the spirit and the body and and the heart and all things connect? And yeah, what does it mean to be my own health advocate and understand how to take care of myself mentally and spiritually and emotionally and physically and all that?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:41

All you're talking about is wisdom, though. That's separate from anguish.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

I bet it pisses you off though when people walk up to you and it's like, oh, the Lord had plans for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:50

Are all those prayers were answered? I mean, I just don't have time for it anymore, you know, because anytime I've ever then said something, their immediate interpretation is well, you're just full of yourself. You're just so arrogant. Like, damn. I mean, it's just like we're just we're just not on the same frequency and on the same vibration. But you know what? Those are the same people that they're having to deal with all the things that come. Like, like I don't, I don't have any problems with my body. Like, I don't feel insecure. I'm not I'm not overweight, I'm not underweight, I'm not anything, right? Like I just keep learning, it just keeps getting better. I just keep getting more educated. I keep discovering more things that help me to be physically well and healthy. So they can mock me, they can say all the things they want or whatever, right? But they're never going to be able to run and hide from all the problems that they're unwilling to face and deal with.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:45

Yeah, I think and I think a a good point here is that you feel like you're probably living your best life in abundance. You're probably living the best version of your life. You've probably manifested this. Um, and and so how do you refute that? Like, like, why is that not okay? Like, why why can't we be okay with I just feel good, I look good, I'm not insecure, I'm managing money differently, I have a great relationship, my body's healthy, I'm mentally focused, there's a lot of clarity. I'm good. Yeah, like why can't we just be good with that?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Because it's a mirror reflecting something that we're ignoring in our own life.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:21

Yes, yes. And I I think you hit the nail on the head here.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

And maybe on some level, like that is the work of Ryan Lulf. Like, that is the Ryan Lulf show, is I'm just holding up a mirror and I'm no longer attached to who's ready to look at what it reflects back.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:43

Oh, that's so good. That's so good. That's so good. So, yeah, so if you're out there and you're listening and this does resonate with you, there there is your coaching is so dynamically different. The way that you view life, the way that you view money, the way that you view abundance, the way that you view relationships, the way that you review politics, the way that you review and view how your body works with your mind, the aura, the frequency, the vibe. Chaz, I know you hate this, the field can vastly change how someone formulates how they can operate, think, and function as a fellow human being.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

Yeah, I think I think for some people, like you have to get it has to get bad enough for you to let go of your attachment to it having to unfold a certain way. Like it's my life's been so bad, and I was in so much pain, and I wanted something different so desperately that I didn't care what language was used. I didn't care the method in which it came to me about.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:56

And to me, that's when I really met God. Was when I realized God was in everything, God is everything. And it was me that had been cutting off all the avenues in which I could meet God in or God at because of the contamination in my mind that had come through the limited programming and conditioning of the Christian framework. And it doesn't matter what your framework is, it's always limited every time. Every single framework on the planet is baked and built in limitation. And that's and that's really at the end of the day what people are doing. They are fighting for the story of their own limitations. And I'm simply standing over here, grounded and rooted, and saying, whenever you're ready to be the most powerful being on the planet that you've always been, and actually acknowledge it and live from it, it's available to you if you're ever ready and open and interested. And I'd love to meet you there.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:06

That's the Ryan Love show for today.