West Michigan Golf Association

This week we sit down with Andrew and Nate from the West Michigan Golf Association to talk about their upcoming tournament schedule and take a look behind the scenes at what it takes to keep the WMGA a finely tuned machine that hosts great events year after year.

The Association is completely volunteer driven which makes its history even more impressive.

The WMGA hosts the West Michigan Amateur, The Grand Rapids City Match Play, The Kent County Amateur, and the Grand Rapids City Championship.

Not Salty Golf podcast is brought to you by Great Lakes Gear. You can follow Great Lakes Gear and Not Salty Golf on instagram.

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@notsaltygolf

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Not Salty Golf Podcast. We did not have an episode last week because I held this episode for this week because we interview Andrew Ladwick and Nate Gottlip from the West Michigan Golf Association. And this week we kick off their very first event of the season, which is the West Michigan Amateur at the Mines Golf Course in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And so we're excited to bring you this episode. Want to recap real quick that we had the spring best ball out at Kaufman, and Kaufman does an amazing job, another great event. And for all of you curious out there, Garrett and Kurt uh got in the championship flight. Um or met with very windy conditions on Sunday afternoon. And I think they finished kind of middle of the pack in the championship flight. And Hoog and I uh were in the first flight. We shot even par, I believe, or one under day one, um, which got us first flight. We did not win our flight. I think we finished third or fourth, but we won a skin. So we have that going for us, Hoog and I. Um, but we're really excited to kick off this week. Uh the first event of the season, we're all waiting for summer to be here. Now, if the weather can just kind of cooperate and give us some warm temps, we will all be very happy. I know the college kids are coming back and wrapping up their college season. Some of them are still have regionals um, and so we're excited to root them on at regionals and get them home for the summer so we can start playing some golf and bring you some video, not just podcasts and audio, but some video with those kids. But thanks for being with us again, and let's dive into this episode with Andrew and Nate from the West Michigan Golf Association. Welcome everybody. This week we are excited to have Andrew Ladwig and Nate from the West Michigan Golf Association, where we're gonna talk all things happening here in the west side of the state. Nate and Andrew uh spearhead the West Michigan Golf Association, part of a committee, but uh Nate is the president. Andrew, are you uh what's your title?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Just a guy. Just a guy, McGee.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Okay. Uh, but Andrew and I go way, way back. Um, so we're excited to have Andrew on on the pod today. So Garrett, let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_03 2:45

Laddie, man, I feel like you're more than just a guy within the West Michigan Golf Association. We're gonna start by asking you to elaborate on that. What is just a guy's role in this West Michigan Golf Association?

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah, it's a good question, Garrett. And it's funny, uh, Nate and I were talking, uh, so it's kind of crazy. Uh I started playing in the West Michigan Golf Association events, uh, and this hurts to say about 25 years ago now, um, and moved away for the better part of a decade after college and uh started playing when I moved back to Grand Rapids in our events. And I'll let Nate get into more of the details, but we host a series of events here around West Michigan. And uh as I got back into gear here in Grand Rapids in West Michigan, I caught up with a ton of friends. And a couple of years later, Nate and the team that heads up the WMGA asked me to join the board. And uh we've got a group of Nate, about a half half dozen of us uh that help lead the events, and by that, Garrett, it's everything from planning to working with the courses to uh getting the technology in place to just making sure the events are set up to be fun for everybody. So uh when I say just a guy, there's a lot that goes into uh hosting our events, uh, as I would say, uh definitely one of the premier amateur golf associations in the state. But Nate, I'll let you uh take that question a bit further and potentially provide uh a bit of context and background on the WMGA as well.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Yeah, sounds good. Um and Andrew uh you know stepped back in and really has uh helped fill a lot of roles, uh especially boots on the ground running the events. Like he mentioned, uh the golf association's been around for a long time. Um we've done some research. It actually dates back into the some of the events date back into the 40s and 50s, 1940s and 50s. Um the current entity proper uh was really legally formed in the 60s. Um and it's it's volunteer run uh through all of us that enjoy and love the game and want to see competitive golf continue to thrive in West Michigan, um, competitive amateur golf. Uh, you know, and there's I think there's eight of us on the board. Um I stepped into the board almost over a decade ago. I graduated college and started playing in the events right away, 2006, 2007 timeframe, and um have you know played in them ever since. And we really worked hard to you know continue to evolve, uh bring in technology, get more people to play, that kind of stuff. As you can imagine, over time. Uh, how do you run an event back in the 60s, right? Uh, you know, paper and pencil. Um, but here we are today with technology, online registration, all that all the bells and whistles that you would expect for an event. Um so the the board of us, you know, we share duties. I I do I do a lot, but um you know, I I can't play in all the events, so we need people to help out running the events uh on site, that kind of thing. So try to divide and conquer. Um, you know, try to delegate and do those types of things.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

Well, I man, I knew uh once you got into that, man, I knew that you were gonna be more impactful than just a guy. So you you both you guys do an amazing job with the West Michigan Golf Association. I'm stoked to have you guys on here with McGee and I. McGee and I were talking about kind of where to take the podcast and what topics we wanted to bring in. Uh and and outside of kind of the interviews that we've been doing. And this obviously is near and dear to both of our hearts as McGee's getting involved in some sponsorship with Great Lakes Gear. And we're on the cusp of another season, which is hard to believe. Um, felt like a long winter, but here we are already. This podcast won't go live until next week. Um, but we've got the spring best ball kicking off the uh upcoming season this weekend, which some of us are playing in, some of us aren't. But we'll get to that in a minute, won't we, Moogie?

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Touchy subject.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Yeah, I'm here to poke the bear early and often.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah. Before we uh continue, Nate and Andrew. Um, either one of you want to answer this question. Do you want to give a shout out to who is on the board uh and donates their time? Because this is all volunteer work and that makes it special. Like nobody's making money off this, and nobody's getting paid. And so I think it's cool to recognize everybody that's on your board that's donating their time uh to make these events happen.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

Yeah, for sure. Um, myself, uh, and then we've got Ben Rayborn. Uh Ben is the GM at at Kaufman Golf Course. So Kaufman's a great you know partner for the organization. They host several events throughout the summer, uh, spring best ball, the Kent County Amateur, the senior Kent County, and a fall event. Um, so Ben's been uh instrumental in in helping us out. You got Ricky Schultz, um Ricky's been uh around a long time as well. Um Calvin College grad, uh longtime golfer. I've known Ricky for a couple decades. Uh Jason Wahlberg, Jason's a member out at Sunnybrook and uh has played in our events for a couple decades as well. We got Andrew, obviously, just a guy uh here with us. Um Brian Hayward, uh really close friend of mine, my best ball partner. Um and then uh Chris Johnson. Uh some of us know him as Chris Johnson number two, because there are two Chris Johnsons that uh play in our events. Uh so he's the younger of the two, but um great friend. And then uh more recently we added Mitchell White. Mitchell White played at Grand Valley. Um and is just uh he kind of moved back into town, uh working working full time now. Just got uh well, he got married a couple years ago, just had a kid. So um we're all in that stage of life where we love playing, love playing golf, but we're also uh life changes are happening. Everybody's got kids now, pretty much, except Andrew over there, just a guy.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

So just a guy. That's awesome. Uh my question I'd like to ask right off the bat is um since you've both been involved, and maybe Andrew, you can go first and then Nate second, since you've been involved in the West Michigan Golf Association, what are you where has it gone in that time frame, the growth, and what are you most proud of of what's kind of happening in the time you've been involved in the West Michigan Golf Association?

SPEAKER_00 9:24

Yeah, it's a good question, Mike. And uh I'll kind of take this two different directions. Uh I joined the board back in 2020 or 2021. And if we look over that time period, and and Mike and Garrett, you both know this working in our space, uh, it has been the best portion of time for the golf industry in general of our lifetimes, right? Like golf courses are busy, more people are picking up clubs, uh, more people are looking to play tournaments. Um, and I think one of the things that I'm most proud of is, and Nate, you can speak to this, is we have continued to grow our tournaments and get more people playing, but also get them on great golf courses. So, for those that haven't taken a look, to give you a sense, uh, this year we're hosting golf tournaments at the Mines, uh, Ellie Kaufman, Stonewater, Sunnybrook, as well as Indian Trails right here in my backyard in the southeast side of Grand Rapids. So just the fact that as Nate mentioned, we divide and conquer. We've got folks on our board that have relationships across the local golf scene, but um it hasn't been easy. Get finding golf courses that are open to having us for a full weekend and host sometimes upwards of 150 golfers to play. Um, we've got great relationships, we've got direct lines. You know, we're super, super thankful for the PGA professionals out there that help support us and host our tournaments. So that's been huge. Um, and then the the other part to this, and you know, I can dive into this further down the road in our conversation, is we've got a really wide swatch of folks that are playing in our tournaments, right? While we keep things open and typically we see single handicappers down to those that are plus handicapped playing, uh, we've got everything from uh you know young high schoolers that are playing, right? To college golfers, uh to mid-am golfers. Nate brought up one of our board members, Ricky Schultz, played with another WMGA veteran, Chet Vandenberg, a couple years ago and made it really far in the USGA four ball. Uh in the senior side of things, we've got some fantastic golfers that play. Uh one gentleman that's played in these events for three going on four decades, Mike Zorhoff, uh, has made it to the match play at the U.S. senior amateur, right? And these are people that we're able to go out and play with and compete against and also get to know them. So I also take a lot of pride in that, that you may have a 14-year-old that's a really good golfer playing with somebody that is getting ready to go play in the U.S. senior amateur, and they're going mono emano down the back nine, right? That that is something that you don't find many places. I think that's really cool as well. Nate, how about you?

SPEAKER_04 12:08

I don't know much. I don't know, I don't know if I have much to add. Uh that was awesome. I I think all those things are very true. When I joined the board, there was um there was a group of folks that ran it. Mike Zoroff was one of them. And uh Mike and I had gotten to know each other through me playing out at Sunnybrook with him and and several others, uh, with the workmeisters as well, Tom and Leslie, who really um ran this organization for for quite some time. And uh we still had one of the uh we'll call him the old guard, Al Demovichus, who was very instrumental in the organization as well, uh, that was still involved. And Al, great guy, he'd won several of the championships over the many years, but he still managed the event on a legal pad. And we needed to get that into you know the 21st century. Um so uh I joined the board and we started making strides to get, you know, instead of entry fees by by paper and check, was you know, I remember sitting doing the pairings at uh Tom and Leslie's office for the Kent County, and someone drove by and dropped off their entry as we were doing the pairings on Thursday night. Like that's how it used to go. Um, and they were like, Do you have room? You know, yeah, I guess we have room, we can make room for one more. So um that was my biggest like thing that I wanted to get solved was to kind of get you know online payments, tournament software really implemented. So that's first and foremost for me that you know I've been involved in. But then like Andrew said, the ability to play a wide range of courses uh with a wide range of people, the the relationships, the friendships that I've made over the last 20 years, I mean, I'll carry through forever, you know, all you guys being being a part of that too.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Hey, Nate, uh a quick question to follow up with what you just said. The thing that came to my mind immediately was is technology a blessing or a curse at times for an organization like the West Michigan Golf Association?

SPEAKER_04 14:12

Um great question, fair question. Um I'd say for the most part, it's a blessing. It's a it's a curse in that um it's difficult to get everyone on the board up to speed on it and learning it or knowledgeable of it. Um you know, the the tournament software, you know, you kind of have to in a lot of ways teach yourself. I mean, there's tutorials and instructions, but you know, and and someone's got to build out all the events, build out the schedule, manage the uh the finance side of it, uh, the registration pages, the entry forms, all that type of stuff. And, you know, for better or worse, I've kind of taken that upon myself. And um, you know, like this year we're converting over to golf genius for tournament software. And that's been a big undertaking, just kind of building each event behind the scenes so that it's ready for the for the summer season. And then all the guys on the board that are gonna, you know, be running the events need to know how to use it and run the actual event. So um, fortunately, you know, with golf genius specifically, all of the golf pros at the host courses, you know, tend to know uh that system and we can uh plug them in as well. But um, so we're excited about that. But yeah, it is a little bit of a a curse in that you know one or two guys kind of hold the keys and all out of the knowledge, and it's difficult to train and teach that beyond myself sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 15:38

All right. G, gee's just chilling.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

Sorry, Mg. I was stuck on mute there for a sec. I was I was thinking about what Nate was saying, and what it what Laddie was saying about some of the host courses and just the opportunity that all these guys have. And I was just thinking about the number of years I've been doing this as well. And and Laddie and Nate, both of you guys, and either one of you want to chime in. And how have you seen? Obviously, we've talked about the growth of the game post-COVID and stuff, but I imagine the demographic and the the level of play that you've seen come across this West Michigan Golf Association and these events has just got to been escalating year after year after year. I I know in the short amount of time that I've been back and more dedicated to this since since moving back to West Michigan from North Carolina, just it's unreal how good some of these golfers are. You talked about some of the guys that play in USJ events, whether it's mid-ams, seniors, etc. But it is it's a competitive landscape.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

First off, before we go any further, don't let Garrett sell you short. The uh premier pole cutter out of Grand Haven, Michigan, uh, he is pretty strong himself. But Garrett, to your point, I was taking a look before we hopped on here. Uh, you know, we've always had some really strong players in West Michigan, but I just looked over the last three years. If you look at the winners in the top three finishers, and we call them our major championships, right? But uh if you look over the past three years, folks from Big Ten college programs, Mac, Big East, uh a gentleman who was an All-American at Grand Valley and then played at Texas Tech, uh, these are the people that we're going up and playing against, right? And so um when you look at some of the scores, and I'll also point out uh, you know, Ari Jackman, who is a fantastic golfer who's now playing professionally uh from Caledonia, who played at Central Michigan. Um Nate, Nate, you may have to help me on the exact number, but he shot about a million under at Kaufman a couple of years ago uh in the in the uh Kent County amateur.

SPEAKER_04 17:40

So you know, we're seeing 15 under was uh record score for not having to adjust par there from any flooding.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

So and you know, to that point, and Garrett, coming back to your question, when I look at younger golfers that want to improve, or just like us, mid-amateurs with jobs on a daily basis, um, you know, going back to how our tournaments are set up, for those that may not know, they're typically 54 whole stroke play events uh with a 36-hole day either to finish on a Sunday or a 36-hole day to start on Saturday and then 18 to finish on Sunday. Uh, if you look at how most major amateur and college tournaments are played outside of our world, that's exactly how the best players are playing, right? So it gives you a real uh corollary to the way that the best amateur tournaments are playing, and it really does bring the cream uh to the top. And last thing I'll mention here before I send it over to Nate, I will also mention that uh we have now hosted our match play tournament at one of my favorite spots, Indian Trails, here on the southeast side of town. Um a couple years ago we had our city championship, so a stroke play event out there. And Nate, I believe you are now the record holder. It was a par 65 at the time, but he is the record holder for the WMGA. He shot 59 out there. So uh that record still stands. We'll see if that ever gets broken.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Thanks for that. Uh that was a fun day. It was a fun, fun tournament. Uh, it was cool to bring Indian Trails into the uh into the mix to host the city championship. It's the only golf course located in the city of Grand Rapids. So uh that was kind of the reason that we did that after we had some scheduling challenges that year, and it worked out great. They're a great partner and it it it serves really well for a match play event. Um, that's why we host our match play tournament there now. Is it you got a lot of short drivable holes, you got a lot of chaos that can happen, makes for fun, makes for fun match play. So um I was just pulling up the uh some of the historical results on uh my other screen here and uh looking how competitive this has gotten. You look back in the early years or earlier years, 15, 20 years, 30 years ago, there was a lot of repeat back-to-back winners. We had some you know great champions, Bob Secotius, Tom Werkmeister, excellent players, no question. But the depth of field has continued to improve. And you we rarely are seeing you know people win stuff back to back anymore. Um, you know, there's only one one back to back in the city championship since 2013. That's our board member Brian Hayward. Uh, I don't think no one's won the Kent County back-to-back since Tom Workmeister did it in 2012 and 2013. Um, one repeat winner in there, Nick Carlson. But I mean, and he plays now on the you know uh hotel planner tour, uh DP World Tours, uh, you know, Corn Ferry version. So I mean, just exceptional, exceptional play, um bringing in those college, you know, the college players that are playing from you know all over the the Midwest, you know, adds to the talent pool, but also helps the younger golfers really learn and grow and get better, right? And frankly, us too, right? How do we motivate and challenge ourselves by playing against better players?

SPEAKER_01 21:03

Hey, I wanna I was gonna save this for like the end of the podcast to kind of give my opinion on the West Michigan Golf Association, but we're kind of touching on it right now. So I'll uh say this quickly. The West Michigan Golf Association, which I think is the coolest thing in the world, is when I did not grow up playing junior golf, I played other sports. And when I started playing golf with friends and kind of uh landed in golf, they were urging me to play some of these events, and I was scared, like just nervous as can be. And I remember one year, like the second or third year I played in one of these events at the West Michigan Am, uh played well the first round. So I'm getting paired with like Lloyd Fisher and Bob Sakoshus and Tom Konwinsky, uh like that core group and who went. Was there our boy Hug, and they were nothing, they could see how nervous I was, and they did everything in their power to calm me down and say, Okay, kid, it'll be all right. Let's let's just have a good time out here today. And that experience is something I'll never forget. So, fast forward to a few years ago, and we're at the uh I can't remember exactly what event, but I see these kids playing, and I find out it's Ricky Schultz's kid, um and Ricky's buddy, his son, and talking to Ricky about it. Ricky's like, Yeah, I just want to get him some experience, and and so he's starts getting comfortable in these situations. And I just for me, that was a full circle moment. Like, how cool is it to have an organization where uh everybody is looking out for one another, and nobody's looking at if a uh 13-14-year-old kid comes out and wants to play in the event, is looking at it in a negative light. They're everybody's looking at it in a positive light. Like this is so cool. This kid's out here grinding, he wants experience. And uh so for that, I just wanted to throw that out there because that's to me is what is makes the West Michigan Golf Association so special. And we can talk about the talent, and I'm sure Garrett will talk about that as the podcast goes on. The talent pool, but beyond the talent, the people make it, and everybody is a good person.

SPEAKER_04 23:39

Yeah, uh, thanks, Mike. That's that's great to hear and love love hearing those types of stories. Um you know, it dates back to Andrew when he was in high school, though, too. You know, he he played in these events when he was growing up in high school, and you know he can certainly speak to it, but I know he credits it to you know a lot of his development, um, you know, coming up.

SPEAKER_00 23:59

It's it's really powerful. And I I uh you know, I think when I back to when I played at 13, 14 years old, Mike, with some of the same guys that you were mentioning, and I'm scared, you know, scared to the end of the world, but at the end of the day, as I went on and played competitively at some high levels, nothing scared me after playing with those guys, right? Like there's nothing that made me blink going and teeing off at a NTA regional or a you know a big amateur event. After I'd played with those guys who are the best of the best in the area here and the best of the best in the state and the region, you know, nothing made me blink, right? And anybody that's played competitively knows that there's real value in that. Um, and those guys are still my buddies to this day, which is the best part of it too, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:46

That's very true. And McGee, echoing that, I I remember actually being on the practice screen at Indian Trails at the match player last year when you had that conversation with Ricky and his son was getting ready to play. And I remember some of the nerves, and I remember you pulled his son aside and had a few words of encouragement, and that was that was really cool. But it is, it's a selfless group, guys. You guys really have something special because as much as golf is an individual game, we are all out there to beat each other in one way or another. There's no shortage of of friendships and bonds that are created through that process, and everybody's there to take others under their wing, and you guys have done a great job grooming that.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

I I agree, I totally agree, Garrett. It's like a family out there, and that's uh that's what's cool about it, just the family atmosphere. So kudos to you guys. Uh, you appreciate it. You made a comment about Workmeister, and he was on my list of you know, we gotta talk about Tom Werkmeister. You said back to back, and I didn't know if you meant back to back or back to back, back to back. Um but if people want to question the talent of golfers that play in the West Michigan Golf Association events, uh Tom Werkmeister, we can comfortably say probably dominated uh for an era um and then turned 50 and said, I want to give it a shot and see if I'm good enough to play with the pros, and he was and earned a senior tour uh champions tour card. Um that's so I think that right there speaks to the level of competition that's playing out there. But can you just talk about work a little bit and just the run? Um uh he had and maybe just talk about the eras a little bit. You know, you had the sucotious era uh that I remember when I first started getting involved in that group, and um, and then you had work come in and kind of dominate and do his thing, but just kind of how cool it is to watch some of the these talents you know shine year in and year out for that span.

SPEAKER_04 26:51

Yeah, um I've had the pleasure of uh you know knowing both of those gentlemen.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Um looking at some of the history results real quick because trying to see when the first time uh some of the crazy whatever you're looking whatever you're looking up, it doesn't sound realistic for Bobby or for Tom.

SPEAKER_04 27:09

So maybe yeah, I can't I can't count fast enough, but uh you know Bob's Bob Secotious, uh I think he won his first event in 1979. Uh that looks about right, of the three major events anyway. Um and uh he won at least one, I think, you know, every year for the next you know 20 or 30 years. I I remember specifically, it was it had been a while since Bob won once, uh, won one. Uh we're playing in the Kent County. He hadn't won the Kent County since like 1996, and it's 2010. And uh I played with him in the first or second round, and he went out and shot like he shot 65 in the second round at at Kaufman, and he got himself into a playoff. And you know, Bob was getting older then and you know, in 2010, gets into a playoff against Vaughn Stevens. And we're all circling the circling the first screen, watching from behind, and see the t-shots go off. And if you know Vaughn, he's just this bullet low, you know, low driver, and uh he's down there and probably 130 out or so, 130, 140. And you know, Bob hits his his driver out there and he's a ways behind. And he steps up there with a hybrid, and Stone Cold hits it to a foot to that back left pin and and kicked it in for Birdie and won the tournament in 2010. So that was a cool moment. Um, you know, sandwiched right between the next guy that kind of took the reins, Tom, Tom Werkmeister. Um, you know, Tom's a Tom's a great friend, got to know Tom a lot. He's won, we we'll have to total it up. I don't know if he's won more total events than Bob or not, but it's pretty close. Um he dominated for years and years and years. Uh the most consistent, you know, two-yard fade ball striker off the T, and then he did a little two-yard draw, it felt like with the irons every time. And um, I've never heard Tom say or be real confident with his putter, uh, but he was a better putter than he gave himself credit for. And again, he hit it so well he didn't have to uh putt from very far away either. Uh both gentlemen very instrumental in the West Michigan Golf Association history. Um, Tom and Leslie definitely for you know running uh the organization, running the board um for quite a while until uh you know I stepped in and then Tom turned pro and they kind of stepped away. But um, you know, great people, just like we've talked about. Um miss miss having them out there. We'll see if Tom decides to flip back and turn amateur again and try to beat us uh at his old game. But uh yeah, great people and you love love having the history about it.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Is that something that you guys uh talk about or something that's on your radar? Is how can we celebrate some of these amazing champions that we've had? So as future generations take the torch and run with it, we'll always make sure that they're not forgotten.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

It I'll Nate, I'll kick this one off just because uh you know, Uncle Bob, Bob's a coachist, uh shout out to the Union Redhawks. Uh he was a high school teammate of my dad way back when. And I think if you asked him, he'd still call still call me by my dad's name at this point, uh, 30 years after meeting him. But um I'll let Nate speak too. There's a kind of a uh a cool push uh as of a year, a couple of years ago, to really honor Bob and some of his contributions and and frankly his dominance over the years as well. Nate, I'll let you speak to that.

SPEAKER_04 30:45

Yeah, no, that's great. Uh you know, breaking news here. But um, those that are familiar with the organization uh know a little bit already. But uh we we run a or we have a season-long points, points list uh based on how you play in our events and some other state events, the Michigan Am, Michigan Open, that kind of thing. And um it it culminates in a year-end kind of Ryder Cup style event that's been running for um 60 years or so. And uh historically it's it's had a bunch of different names, but it was called the Co Cup, uh, then the Wakovia Cup. And uh it you know, sponsors kind of bounced around for a little bit, but for the last quite some time, it's been called the Redwater Cup, sponsored by our friends at at Redwater Golf. With, you know, they own several of the clubs in town that we play events at and really appreciate that from them. Um so we thought Bob has played Bob Secoches has played in dozens and dozens of of that event uh to culminate the year. And uh we're we're gonna rename that event, the Secotious Cup, and presented by the sponsor at that point. So presented by Redwater. Uh so the Secotious Cup will uh finish our season uh this year and uh be presented by Redwater and um and the mines. The mines is gonna step in and participate in that as well. So um we're looking forward to that. I'm gonna get Bob on the horn, so make sure he shows up and uh we can honor him uh accordingly. Uh hopefully he brings a couple putters in to show off as relics.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

So that's awesome. That's uh I think that's a nice classy touch. And uh it'd be good to see him back out there just with the guys. Uh so that you know, if I saw him, I would just like to shake his hand, you know, and say thanks for everything he did for for me, even though he wouldn't remember me probably, but all all those years ago. So I think that's a touch of class, guys. Congrats on that.

SPEAKER_03 32:45

Very much so. And McGee, don't sell yourself short, man. You're a memorable guy. People know who you are. Your reputation sticks.

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

Um, Nate, I'm I'm actually glad uh we've we've talked a lot of history and a lot of where the West Michigan Golf Association has been, and looking forward to touching on a little bit of where it's going and getting kind of some of the listeners hyped up for the 2026 season, um, kicking off this weekend slash last weekend after this airs. But I'm glad you mentioned the Redwater Cup, now the Secotious Cup. As that is one thing I was hoping to discuss today, because last year, I tell you, man, the last couple of years, it has been the most fun. Like the West Michigan Golf Association and what you do with each individual event is fantastic. But tuning into the points race and seeing where you're at on that points list as the season comes to a close and chasing that red water cup or that Secotious cup, that public versus private environment is an exceptional highlight. And a number of the I was shocked at the number of players that I competed with and against last year that weren't aware of that. Have you guys seen that? Is that something that you want to kind of talk more about and kind of push more out into the public so people know what they're chasing by competing in each of these events every month?

SPEAKER_04 33:59

Yeah, I think that that's that's one thing we talk about as a board is how do we get more publicity to that? It's kind of a um a double-edged sword a little bit with the amount of talented golfers that we're getting that our events are you know driving from around the state. A lot of those players might only play in one event. And you know, they might not know what what that means. They come and play the Kent County, our biggest event, and you know, don't play in some of the others. Maybe it's scheduling or what have you, um, you know, or you know, their college teammates are encouraging them to play, but they only have time to come and play in one. So we I think we get a little more fragmented from um you know our our points, points race, because we should probably do a little bit of uh you know publicizing on it how do you qualify, right? It's not just come and play in one event and you know you win that event and you're in. Um we we like to you know reward those that play in more than just one of our events. So if you play in you know two of our events and earn enough points to be in the top eight public or private, then you're you know gonna get a reach out probably from me towards the end of the season. Um so we we could do a better job of publicizing that, and and I think that's uh that's a goal for um you know this year and going forward.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

It's a great event, and it's got a ton of history, and and having gotten to compete on the public side the last couple of years, what remind us uh what's the record public versus private? Oh, you're gonna have to make me look it up here. Hold on. This is unreal for as long as this has been going on to have it be this close.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

All right, so we've we've done uh there've been 59 of them. Uh so this year will be year 60. So another good uh milestone to rename it. Um so the public team leads over after 59 years, 26 to 24, and there have been nine ties. So that just speaks to the diversity of talent that we've got here in West Michigan, whether you're a member at a private club, you play, you know, across the public spectrum in town or across the state. Um, you wind up hitting the top eight point getters from both of those groups, you know, at the end of the year, and it's that even that's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Garrett, uh, just so you know, I have meetings scheduled with all area college athletic directors to make sure that they have college events the weekend of the Red Roder Secos Cup. That's the only way somebody like me will qualify, is when all those college kids cannot play because they have college events. Then they go down to like 20th, they're like, All right, hey, what you doing that weekend?

SPEAKER_04 36:44

Hold on, hold on, Mike. You're now you we changed the senior age to 50 plus.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Okay, I know. Then that's there you go. We have to talk about we have to talk about that. So, Garrett, do you can I go on this tangent a sec? Absolutely, interject, man. Let it rick. So um, you know, I've always said to you guys, you know, like the senior division 55. I'm like, why isn't it 50? You know, why why is it 55? And um but mentally I'm like, I I throw that out there every once in a while when I talk to you guys, and but I never think like it's gonna change, like you're not gonna change it just because I say something, and uh so I said to Garrett, I said, Oh no, they changed it, Garrett. It's like now it's 50, and it's like now I feel I have to play the senior division because I feel like they changed it because I made some comments about it, and but I still want to play with some of the GLG kids in these events because I enjoy like playing with them because some of them it's the only time I really get to play with them in the summer. Um and the competitiveness in me, you know, like I'm like I I said to Garrett, I said, I have uh I got an issue going on right now. I gotta sign up and I gotta pick a box. And now I feel bad. Like if I don't pick the senior box, they're gonna be like, you fool, why did you make these comments? Why did we change this?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

We we made it, we you know, again, you Mike, you and a couple other gentlemen uh over the past few years have been birds in our ears, just making sure we knew. And then uh again, we are uh as a board, we take feedback seriously. And uh what can I say? You you you see Nate here, uh he made that final decision. So we're excited about it. We've actually uh again, we've got some fantastic senior players, and uh we've seen some great scores out of the senior division the last couple years. I mean, folks coming out on really tough courses and shooting well under par, which has uh been really impressive. So, yes, the uh the senior division is now 50 years and up. So if you don't make it to the champions tour this year, Mike, I know that's also on your docket. We'll take you in the senior division at the WMGA, okay?

SPEAKER_01 39:11

Actually, I was gonna like go a short game chef on tour and do some short game clinics.

SPEAKER_04 39:18

Um does Meg to get to move up a box. Well it depends on which event he plays in. I mean, that's so the that that's the important piece, Mike. You the uh there's only a couple where the senior division plays from separate tees, right? So you can enter the open division in the Kent County or the city championship. You play the same T's, but you compete against you know on a separate leaderboard in addition to the overall event. So we can still get you with some of the some of the GLG guys, uh, you know, as part of that. So the West Michigan Am is a little bit different, but right.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

West Michigan Am, you gotta check a box and then you're committed. You check that box and you're committed.

SPEAKER_03 40:00

Two out of four, though, you get to have your cake and eat it too.

SPEAKER_01 40:03

That's the win. I I guys, I immediately said to Gara, I said, I got issues. I have issues going on. So I have a question for you. You may have an answer, or you might have to get back to me. But if you play like the open division, or let's say you play the West Michigan Am and you do not play the senior division, but you you know get some points in that event, does that go towards you playing in the senior division for the Redwater Cup? Or if you're like in the lower division, point those points just go to the lower?

SPEAKER_04 40:43

No, it's that that that process or that side of it for the for the Redwater Cup, Sicocious Cup is a little more fluid just because um there's senior events popping up all over the place, too. So it's you know who plays well in our events, who plays in a lot of our events, um, who supports us, that you know, that kind of thing. Um the Red Water Cup is eight, usually eight of the open division and and two from the senior uh squad. Or so um if you score points playing in the open division that you know you earn as a senior, like those carry more weight, truthfully, than you know, just the senior division because you did it against that higher level of competition.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 41:29

Zorhoff won the match play a couple years ago. I mean, yeah, you know, that that pretty much guaranteed him a spot.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

So yeah. All right, cool. Good to know.

SPEAKER_03 41:39

I like your questions, McGee. You've got some goals here, don't you? I do.

SPEAKER_01 41:43

I have I have one last question, G, that I'm gonna throw it to you. Letter it, man. I have been asked because you know, with Team Great Lake Skear, we have a great uh contingent of lady golfers, and our lady golfers have done some amazing things, and we're very, very proud of them. Uh, has there ever been a discussion of having a West Michigan Golf Association Golf Association event for females uh or a mixed team event with one male, one female, or anything like that? Has that ever been discussed or talked about?

SPEAKER_00 42:22

So, real quick, before we we dive in, I I do want to give a shout out to uh the West Michigan Women's Golf Association, which does host uh some events here locally in the Grand Rapids area. So for the ladies out there that are interested, I would definitely check that out. But Nate, I don't know, has anything ever come up with?

SPEAKER_04 42:40

Women's Golf Society, grwga.com, women's golf association, grwga.com.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Perfect. Nate, have we ever looked at doing something uh like a co-event or anything like that?

SPEAKER_04 42:54

Never had a mixed event. Um, you know, team events are certainly you know challenging to you know coordinate and organize. Um, we have had one or two female participants in uh some of our events um over the years. It's a question that has come up a couple of times. And um I think one of the Grand Valley girls and um Sarah White, Brett White's sister, played uh one year, I think. Um wanted some extra competition, wanted some extra reps, was totally fine playing the same Ts, and you know, went out and had a good time. So um that's there's no restrictions on that front. Um, I think a team event might be challenging, but um something that we can uh we can bat around for sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Certainly a fun idea, McGee. And you got some good lady golfers on your GLG squad. I'm sure they'd be inclined to participate.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

Yeah, yeah. I uh it's just when we're talking, things get thrown around, ideas get thrown around, and I'm always like, Yeah, it's a cool idea. Um, because that's one thing for us as a company with Great Lakes Gear and not Salty Golf. We want to make sure that we're giving just as much to the women's game as we are the men's game. And that's something that's always on my mind that I am um always thinking about and making sure that I'm not getting heavy in one area and um overlooking the other because we have some amazing female golfers, not just in West Michigan, but the state of Michigan.

SPEAKER_03 44:26

Speaking of team events, McGee, this weekend we're gonna circle back to the spring best ball. And don't laugh and shake your head. I know this is a little bit of a sore subject, but it is the opening event, man. Um, any any movement on that front for you? Have you heard from Ben?

SPEAKER_01 44:44

Uh, I just texted him as we start the podcast, and he said that he would uh give me an update tomorrow. Okay, I gotta imagine what you got.

SPEAKER_04 44:55

What you got your wait listed, Mike? He's wait listed.

SPEAKER_01 44:59

So I play with Hug is my partner, like Hugh till I die. Like Hugh's my guy. And um it was just one of those things, like Hugh and I talked, and I thought Hugh was gonna sign us up, and then Hug thought I was gonna sign us up, and Hug and I ran into each other and I said, Hey, did you get us in the the spring best ball? And he's like, No, didn't you? And I was like, No, and so I immediately called out there, and yeah, they were full, so yeah, that's a it's a good problem to have for for the organization, and you know, it it filled up super fast.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

I mean, I did I was you know debating or working on schedules on the home front to play, and I wound up with uh you know 1 p.m. T time, so you know it should be uh a little warmer at least in the afternoon than the normal morning.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Who are you teen? Who are you teening it up with this year, mate?

SPEAKER_04 45:53

Um Hayward and I are gonna play, and I think we're paired up with uh Tyler Raymond and Mitch White. So nice. I can't wait to hit first into every green and hopefully beat those boys.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Hey, you know what? I'm looking at the scores. So for everybody's knowledge, uh we have a spring and a fall best ball out at L. Kaufman, and uh when weather has permitted, the scores are really good out there. So uh I'm looking a couple years back, Nate, you and Brian uh 129 over two days. So uh that was pretty good play.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

As long as my guy can get the uh get the putter working, we'll be in good shape.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Can I tell you guys a story real quick about best ball and partners? Yeah, I'm a confident guy, and you gotta be a confident guy when things like this happen to you, okay? So this goes, you know, this first part of the story isn't uh about the West Michigan Golf Association, but our boy Danny Jansen and I played in when his dad owned the golf course in Hastings, we always played in the big best ball out there, which that's a big event, you know, good payouts and everything. And Danny and I never won it. Um, you know, never even sniffed it. So one year Danny calls me and says, Hey, you been playing? Because it was always always early season. And I said, I haven't been playing a ton. He's like, Well, my dad can't play this year, and he was wondering if I could play with his partner that he usually played with. And I said, Yeah, just play with him, that's fine, not a problem. They go out there and win it. And it's like, all right, cool. So I always play with Hoog in the spring and fall best ball out at Kaufman. Well, something happened last year. Garrett could not play with Kurt Sprague, so and I had something going on, you know, with my father, a lot of that kind of stuff going on last year. And so we told Sprague and Hoog, why don't you guys team up and uh play, and they go out and win it. So the the the theme of the story is if you want to win the event, play with me for a couple years, ditch me, go get a new partner, and you'll win it.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

While you're at it, shout out to Danny Jansen, greatest ball striker I've ever seen in my life, and my my East Grand Rapids brother down the street. So shout out to you, Danny, if you hear this.

SPEAKER_03 48:19

Laddie, you should come join us at Quail sometime. He's pretty good at striking things other than the golf ball with his golf ball.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Uh you know what? Just sometimes a little temper gets in there.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

Sorry, Danny. But you should you should seriously you should come join us at Quail sometime, man. It's an absolute riot. And Danny's there on Fridays and Sundays, so you're welcome anytime.

SPEAKER_00 48:41

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

I've invited him invited him many a times, Garrett. Have you? Open invite very much. And I think he's come out once. Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 48:52

Hey, he made it out last fall out to Thorn Apple when we played, and I think he threw a little smooth little 70 on the board for uh having all those kids at home. So yeah, he's still gonna remember that.

SPEAKER_03 49:02

Yeah, he still does. He he just fired a 71 two Fridays ago, too. He's he still golfs his ball. But we can't get him to golf in a West Michigan Golf Association event.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

I think we try. Hey, trust me, McGee and I are already working on this. Mikey, I know you're in his ear. We'll we'll work, we'll keep working on it. That 50-year-old uh senior division might help a little bit, McGee. We'll see.

SPEAKER_03 49:26

We'll get on. Uh I don't know, man. Danny's not a play it forward kind of guy. It might be tough.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

But he doesn't like to play between the team markers either, if you know that. He'll go between the team markers and be like, this isn't his level, you know. I don't or I don't like this thing. We're going over this side of the step off the back of the back team, McGee. Come on.

SPEAKER_03 49:50

Different set of rules.

SPEAKER_01 49:51

All right, we digress.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

Yeah, yep. Um, but McGee, looking at uh this event, obviously, this weekend did fill up extraordinarily fast, like Nate said. Um, but forecast looks 50-50. So um maybe Ben might find somebody that's maybe changed the plans, and maybe you and Hooks can still get get in there.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Well, uh be waiting by the phone tomorrow for Ben's text.

SPEAKER_03 50:14

I hope I hope it works out for you, man. Thank you, Garrett. Um, on that note, though, because this seems to be a a perennial issue here that we're experiencing together, because you also missed the sign-up for the cities championship last fall, late last summer. Um, so I don't know if you've looked, and I'm sure Nate and Laddie have eyes on this too, but the West Michigan Am is filling up awfully quick as well. So if your name isn't on that list, man, you get in there and get after it, dude.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

Um, Nate, we just signed me up. I'll Venmo you.

SPEAKER_04 50:48

It's not that easy anymore with Golf Genius. No, you gotta go through the steps. More than half full.

SPEAKER_00 50:55

It'll it all seriously.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

Yeah, you have to like seriousness for for everyone on here.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

Um, as Nate mentioned, we've now got Golf Genius helping uh from a technology side to help run these tournaments. Uh for anyone that may be interested in playing tournaments or for our longtime players, hop on to uh to WestMichigangolf.com. Uh you can actually sign up for all of our tournaments today. Uh so get on that sooner than later because they they definitely do fill up.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

You spoke too soon. You can't sign up for all the tournaments. You can sign up to be in the membership, you know, have a profile, and then as registration opens up for each event, you'll see it on the uh directory schedule page.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

But yeah, you'll get the reminder.

SPEAKER_04 51:36

Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_01 51:37

I did sign up for my profile, I believe already.

SPEAKER_04 51:42

You're halfway there, Mike. Way to go.

SPEAKER_01 51:44

So I will get on there this week and I'll make that happen. Um, but last year with the city championship, too. Nate, Nate and I were talking. It wasn't completely a me air. It was kind of like I did, I was surprised how quickly it filled up. Um, but I had a lot going on, and I was communicating with Nate back and forth. Nate did uh a spot did open up, and he called me and said, Hey, a spot did open up, would you like it? And I told him, I said, I have not played hardly any golf in the last two, three weeks with all this going on, you know, and I'd hate to take a spot from somebody that probably could go out there and play a lot better than I would at that point.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

So I do I had a chance there. I do recall. Yeah, just looking out for you moving forward, man. Make sure you get your name on that list before those lists fill up. We'd miss you if you weren't at the mines, man.

SPEAKER_01 52:39

The mines would miss me if I wasn't at the mines.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

How did you guys uh let's let's talk about some of these events? Um, curiosity when when did Kaufman become such a staple? Has it always been such a staple for these events? Or when did like Nate, like you said, between spring best ball, fall best ball, um Kent County Am, senior am, won around at the Redwaters Secotious Cup, like you know, huge staple.

SPEAKER_04 53:06

Yeah, I mean, it's been that much of a staple as long as I've been around. Uh, probably similar for Andrew, but um, I mean, the Kent County Am has been there basically since its inception, as far as I know. Um, and uh I don't know when the spring basketball truly started. Uh, I think the fall event was kind of just born out of demand or growth from people wanting, you know, more team events and stuff like that. And credit to to Ben Rayborn, who's on our board, of you know, continuing to spearhead a lot of that at Kaufman and advocating for us with with the county. Um, you know, I'm sure that there's some you know bureaucratic stuff that he might deal with, you know, behind the scenes, but uh we've never had an issue with them you know being able and willing to host and uh really appreciative of that. Uh and then credit to Ben, who kind of saw a need as the Kent County Am uh, you know, more open division started to get you know dominated by really low scores. And you saw more and more college players from across the state, you know, coming over to play. That you know, there was still a need for a lot of the senior guys that uh used to play in that event in the 80s, like the Bob Secoches and everything, where so Ben created a two weeks after the Kent County, he created the Kent County senior and runs that event, um, just 36 holes Saturday, Sunday. And he flights it based on age, but then they're still an overall champion. And uh that's had some great traction and growth in in entries as well. So um, you know, Kaufman's given up a lot, right? That's basically four weekends of of the summer um that they're hosting, you know, something for us. Um, and you know, thankfully they they don't you know charge the full rec rate either, and that makes you know keeps entry fees affordable for everybody. So um there's there's a lot of value in that and a lot of appreciation from us.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Very fortunate, yeah. And and Ben takes a lot of pride in it. I know that for for a fact. And Coffin's a great golf course, and they've got a great team, and they they run these events quite well with you guys. Looking ahead, um, so kind of looking at the schedule. Again, best ball of this month. You guys host one event per month starting in May, first weekend in May. Um, so West Michigan Am at the mines in end of the month.

SPEAKER_04 55:26

Is that uh middle middle of the month, May 16 and 17? Yep. So registration's open for that one. Um, about half full already, 120 players. It's uh 36 holes guaranteed on Saturday. So you play two rounds on Saturday at the mines. Then we cut to the top 30 in ties for uh 18 holes on on Sunday. Senior division is just 18 each day um from a different set of T's.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

Okay, and the the Mines is uh newer host of this event. This uh used to be played. I remember playing it out at Thousand Oaks and a few other sites as well.

SPEAKER_04 55:57

Yeah, before that it was candlestone up in building, it was a candlestone for decades. Um, you know, and it just started to have participation dwindle. People weren't willing maybe to drive all the way out there. I don't know. Uh so started to move it around a little bit. We've done Quail Ridge, we did Thousand Oaks before they went private. Um, you know, so yeah, it's it's had a lot of homes. Um, and I think we found a good home at the mines. Uh, thankful for Chris Sobeck over there, who bought that course a handful of years ago, and he's committed to supporting us, supporting amateur golf, you know, in the area.

SPEAKER_03 56:29

And he loves this event as well. And I know he loves making it a fair but challenging test. We're working on that.

SPEAKER_04 56:36

We want it to be fun, and uh, you know, if if everybody shoots 65, then we can make it harder. That's what I try to tell him.

SPEAKER_03 56:43

Uh, Mother Nature hasn't done us any favors the last year. No, we haven't had a great year either. I'll tell you that. And then June event is the Kent County Am, obviously the staple. Yeah, that's July. Sorry.

SPEAKER_04 56:53

Oh, July.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Sorry. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_04 56:55

Yep. June's the match play. So uh city match play at Indian Trails. Uh, that's a fun one just because it it can open up the doors to competitive golf because it is flighted. So uh June 12th through the 14th, flighted events. You play 18 holes of stroke play on Friday afternoon to kind of get a seed based on how you play. And uh that seed puts you into different flights. So you play a match play then against other people who shot similar score to you on Friday. Um, so if you're interested in trying some competitive golf, you know, come on out and and give that one a go because um you'll meet a lot of good people and uh you know hopefully have some fun.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

It's uh and and as I mentioned earlier, that that event's got a soft spot in my heart. I I grew up about six blocks away from Indian Trails, and they've put, for those that haven't been there in years, they've put a ton of time and effort into the course. And uh Graham Rayburn, uh the general manager, does a fantastic job out there, and the superintendent Craig Kuinga is awesome. Uh we have those greens rolling, you know, a 10, 11 on the stint meter, and they are incredibly, incredibly sloped. Uh so it's fun, it's a lot of fun, Mike. I think we played a couple years ago in the match play portion. You've got three or four drivable par fours, uh, you've got a handful of really good par threes, and it ends up being a great spot to host an event. And again, as Nate mentioned, the cool part for us is uh that's a great entry point for folks that may be looking to dip their toe in the competition side that haven't done so before. Fully flighted. Uh, you'll get two days of golf at minimum uh that you'll be playing. And uh we really appreciate Indian Trails. Uh it's kind of fun. You know, we've got there's two public golf courses in the city of Grand Rapids, and uh both have been uh huge proponents of the WMGA. So thanks to Chris Sobek over at the Mines and Graham Rayburn and the team over at Indian Trails.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

Indian Trails has been a phenomenal home for that event.

SPEAKER_01 58:56

Yeah, and I was when I started playing West Michigan Golf Association events again, this will be my fourth year uh playing in the events again. I had never played Indian Trails before, and so when I the very first event I played in there, I believe was the match play. And I never played out there before, so my buddy uh from high school is a cop in Grand Rapids, and him and his buddies always play out there, and so I said, Can I join you guys one time? Can we go out there and play? And my short game's terrible, but if you hit 18 greens, Garrett, you don't have to chip. Um so I remember being out there like I'm gonna struggle out here, but there's some guys are just gonna tear this place apart. And I remember showing up and playing that first round, and I made comments to like some of you guys, like, I don't think anybody shot under par or that first day to qualify for match play. And I just could not believe like that course. If anybody is listening and thinks, oh Indian Trails, uh that course has held its own for the past three years, and not only has it held its own, done a phenomenal job hosting the event that they are allowing uh you guys to have, all of us to have out there. So hats off to Indian Trails.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:36

No question. Then now you can go to Kent County.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:39

Now we can yes, and looking ahead of July, you know how the calendar moves, Nate. It moves fast, fast furious. Um Kent County M in July, biggest event of the season, without a doubt. Um, I feel like I remember now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn I played in the Kent County M in either 2018 or 19, or maybe it was just coming out of COVID. But I swear that that field size was up to like 200 plus. Am I wrong? Or do am I remembering that correctly?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:08

Yeah, we used to have we used to have that structured a little differently where there was uh maximum players was 208 players, and we did a uh morning and afternoon shotgun on Saturday. Gotcha. The pays of play got so bad, and it made for such a long day for us as a board and for the staff at Kaufman that we've we've pivoted and and made it a little bit more exclusive. I mean, you got to sign up on time. Uh, I think it tops out right around 160 players now. That's what we can comfortably get through the golf course on Saturday with just more tea times, um, less burdensome on um you know scoring and you know, the start, starting, getting people carts and just getting out on the golf course, all of those things. Um and then we have our cut and then we move to uh the next day. So yeah, it's uh a high demand event. It's it's our best event. Um, no question. Best talent comes uh from all over the state because it doesn't really compete with any other events on the calendar. It's after the Michigan AM, after the Michigan Open, it's before the kids go back to college, it's before like the USAM and stuff like that. So it just fits really nice um on the calendar.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:25

Yep, and draws a very competitive crowd, just like all these events. But and you mentioned Ari Jackman and his his record setting win, and we talked to him a couple of weeks ago and talked about his green jacket and the trophy that he got to buckle into the passenger seat of his car, and it's that's an incredible event.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:43

Garrett said on the podcast before, uh people we've interviewed have talked about how strong of a field the Kent County Am is. And uh with Great Lakes gear, I try to play in stuff around the state, so like the Michigan Publix uh invites me to play in their stuff and I'll go play. Um and I uh not talking about the Michigan Am and the Michigan Open, those are the two premier events in the Gam Championship, those are premier events in the state of Michigan. Uh but I will put the Kent County Am field uh uh up against uh almost any field in the state of Michigan, like I said, besides maybe the the Michigan Am, Michigan Open, besides those fields, but any other tournament in the state of Michigan, I will put the Kent County M field uh up uh against any field in the state.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:37

I'll put that set of greens on Sunday afternoon on that that second round on Sunday when they're good and crispy and running about 12 or 13. You get a downhiller on number seven, or you got a put on you know 16. Uh it's the that course is fantastic and it and it holds up really well for all generations.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:58

Hey Andrew, uh will you please tell me more about it? Because some of us don't make it to all the idea what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:08

As a hey, as a board, every year we kind of watch and see, you know, where are the different cuts at, right? So we cut to the low 70 after the first round and then to low 30 after the Sunday morning round. And uh, Nate, the last few years we kind of look at each other like, can you believe the cut is getting to where it is? Um everybody's just getting better.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:28

Yep. What was the cut um for top 30 last year, Nate? Do you remember? Uh pulling it up really quick. I gotta feel like it was like 150.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:40

150. 150 last year, but I think the year before that it was lower. It was 140, it was 149 the year before that.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

Okay, you need to shoot five over par for two rounds to feel comfortable. Yep. I'm making the cut there.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

But we're talking, I mean, two years ago, two years ago, Ari won. He was 15 under, second place was 11 under, third place was 10 under. Last year, Will Will Preston, you know, Penn State golfer ran away with a little bit. He was nine under, couple guys at three, a couple guys at two. So um, you know, it's you there's usually five, six, seven guys under par, and you know, a slew, uh slew thereafter around even one or two over. So that's good scoring for 54 holes.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:27

And like Laddie said, on that golf course on Sunday afternoon, come down the stretch when they get that course cooking. It's that's great golf. Um, and then cities championship in August, which that one bounces around different sites each and every year. What's what's the rotation on that event, Nate?

SPEAKER_04 1:05:46

Yeah, the city championship. This one I dug deep into last year to find some more history because our history results on the website only go to like uh 1958. And I was kind of digging into. My home club uh at Blythefield to see because they were hosting last year. Okay, how many Blythefield members have won this event and that kind of thing. So we dug back and we found newspaper articles dating back to uh the 1940s of Grand Rapids City Championship. Back then it was run by the Grand Rapids Athletic Club, which who knows, right? Um, so the history of the of the city championship, it it's rotated through the private clubs in the city or in in you know Kent County, Greater Proper, um, you know, since then. Um, you know, credit to Johnny C at Cascade Hills. His name's still on the trophy. There's a group of uh, you know, some uh the local pros that you know banded together and and kept this thing going, got a big trophy that you know now travels with the winner. So um rotates through the private clubs, uh the relationship with all of them, they all understand the history and and are generally very accommodative to uh you know host you know once every seven, eight years or so. Um there's always some scheduling challenges this year, you know, being one of them, where uh Kent Country Club was up in the rotation and uh they're undergoing some uh golf course work this uh late this summer and fall, doing some bunker work and things. So they asked if we could you know reach out to the the next year and see if they would swap. Uh so that that was the case. So we're at Stonewater Country Club this year, and the plan will be uh back to Kent Country Club in 2027. But um, you know, great, great event, hosts a lot of great, you know, historic tracks. Um, you know, the golf course does you know tend to drive uh participation a little bit, you know, the folks that you know haven't had the opportunity to play like a Blythefield or a Kent, that one's gonna fill up a lot quicker. But um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:46

Yep. It's uh you know, Garrett, it look as you look back over the years, all the private clubs uh have been great stepping up to to host. And uh again, the PGA pros have been great. Uh Nate, I think back to a couple of years ago when we went to uh when we played at Cascade Hills and they were fantastic. And Garrett and Mike, I I think you both played there. Um those greens were incredible. The course was in fantastic shape, and uh uh we all got our teeth kicked in pretty well there. But uh again, all the private courses really step up in West Michigan to help out and support us over the years.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:25

Yeah, and that uh event was the first city championship I played at a private club. Yep. And I just when they gave us a tea gift with the hat and stuff, again, like touch a class. Um I thought that was a really, really cool thing for for them to do. And I did not play last year, but I was told that there was a tea gift given at Blyfield last year. So not only do these clubs uh give up their golf course and allow us to come in and play, but they're uh they're doing everything they can to make it a special experience for everybody that's participating, which again just shows to the respect between not only the West Michigan Golf Association and the golfers of West Michigan, but the private clubs as well. And I think that's a really cool thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:19

And by the way, Garrett, uh, I believe you had the round of the tournament at Blaithfield, second round in about 30 mile an hour wins or so. 66, 67, uh if my memory serves.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

Uh, you're close, Laddie. It will it was a 65.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Oh, I didn't give him the credit. Yeah, I didn't know it was good.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

It was 65, and I started with a bogey. I bogeied the first, and then said enough of that nonsense. So how many eagles did you have that day? I had two eagles. Um one of the first one on the par five, is it the fifth hole, Nate? Number two, two's par five, and then two six six two and six. The par five, six that Bly hit that into and knocked in a puff for Eagle. And the second one was an atrocious eagle, Laddie. Before uh before I let McGee kind of wrap us up and take us to the clubhouse. That was an eagle that had no business being an eagle because that was on hole 10, 12, 12. That was on hole 12, out of bounds left. And dude, I toe banged a driver so hard and so far left that I hit a provisional that was clear over in the approach on 13, like 80 yards the opposite direction, because I wasn't gonna do the same thing twice, and got fortunate to find the first ball and then hit a just a low punch through a gap that you've got no business hitting through in the first place, only to watch the ball land in the approach, roll up the front of the green, and then run into the cup like a putt. It was it was a two that should have been a seven. So I love it, but yeah, and then I forget. I feel like I had Jimmy Daniels right behind me too. And I remember he then we got the hold up there on 13 T-Box, and he's like, Oh, how's the round going? I'm like, so far, so good. And he goes, I didn't see I didn't see you putt on 12. And I'm like, Yeah, I didn't have to putt on 12. That was it was fun, but that was a that was a fun day, no doubt. You get those rounds and lightning strikes and good things happen, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:25

Tough. All right, guys, we're going to the clubhouse. We could sit here and talk all day. I say that for every guest because we literally could sit here and keep talking about things, but uh we just uh clubhouse rounds done, and we just want to wrap things up with a cold little soda pop or something, and ask you guys a few questions that are not just so golf or West Michigan Golf Association specific. Um I will start off in the first uh question I have and lad, you cannot use my experience. So uh what is tell us like some of the craziest things or stories that has happened in your tenure on the board uh for you and Nate at the West Michigan Golf Association.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:10

Uh I got I got an easy one. So for those that have played Ellie Kaufman before, uh the 15th T is tucked back into basically the corner of Palmer Park, which is a uh a county park, right? And about 25 yards behind that back tee, uh there's a spot to have a picnic or get together, right? And I'm pretty sure it was the final round of a county in maybe four or five years ago, you know, and we're not necessarily in the hunt, but playing and pretty locked in. And we're sitting back there waiting on the tee. And I kid you not, Mike, there is a drum circle going on about 40 yards behind me of just youths playing the drums. And you can't help but laugh when someone's got a drum circle going on behind you. But that's the beauty of playing in a in a county park, is you just you never know what you're gonna get behind you on any of the T's.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:11

Nice, Nate.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:14

Uh aside from we we've we've had some you know, rules challenges or rules stories, nothing specific really comes to mind on that front. Um there's two things that kind of come to mind. Just the city championship and Indian Trails. Uh there's the the 12th hole par three that kind of butts right, the T box is right up by 28th Street. You go up and I went up there and went ready to tee off, and there's a there's another guy up there just hanging out with his bike, just chilling, watching golf shots. Um, and and then you go around the corner, and that you know I think there was um you know some tents in the woods and things like that. And you know, that's part part of being in the city and you know, the challenges that that come with that. But it was just I walk up the stairs on 12, and there's a holy cow, there's a a grown adult with a bike. I it was just very strange to be on a golf course and see that. Um, the other one that I mean, we battle it every year at Kaufman. It's nothing, it's nothing exciting, but just the flooding and then the challenges that happen at Kaufman with the flooding and always having to pivot to potentially you know having some holes as par threes and stuff like that. And you know, every time it rains before an event, I'm just waiting for a text or a call from Ben in the morning, and I'm just like terrified because we have to cancel the event or you know, deal with that kind of thing. So um that's not a great one, but you know, it's something that we deal with. And um, hopefully this year, knock on wood, uh the early season flooding is the last of it.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:48

Yeah, maybe not a comfy thing to deal with, Nate, but I will tell you one thing when you convert one and ten to par threes, they are way comfier starting holes. Yes, they are.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:00

Yes. Well, I one is yes, it is, but that green can be a little diabolical at times for a starting hole. Yes, like you get above that hole, if that pins up front or s or something, and you're in trouble. So that green makes that starting hole just really difficult. But uh, I don't know if you remember, guys, but um when we were playing at the city championship or the match player one of those at Indian Trails. Um, do you remember that lady got out jumped on the course and started playing? Yes, yeah, mid-tournament. Mid tournament. She was just one of us. We were we're like, where did she come from? And she's all by herself playing. And we for like two or three holes, we're like, Do you want to play with us? And we'd love to play.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:57

Oh, I love it.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

That was a trip. I remember her riding around trying to find a spot to squeeze in and telling everybody that she was a member there, and that's she was she was entitled to play.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:08

Found a sucker right here. I was like, Yeah, you play with us. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:18

Yeah, yeah. Laddie, Nate, um, each of you take turns here. What is your favorite West Michigan Golf Association event to compete in and why? Go for it, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

This one's easy for me. Uh, just because it's as I'm as I'm sitting in my office here, it's about seven minutes from me. Um, the city match play out at uh Indian Trails. Like I said, I grew up quite literally down the street. It was one of the courses that uh I grew up and learned the game on. Um for those old head old heads out there, uh my dad ran a driving range across the street from it at it from Indian Trails for a few years back in the 90s. So uh soft spot in my heart. I love the the team out there. And uh for those that remember the golf course there went through some rough years back in the 90s and 2000s, and uh getting Craig and the team uh out there and working on the course, uh as Mike mentioned earlier, it's really turned into a fun event. And I love it as it's uh you know just a couple minutes from uh my driveway out there. So city match play, shout out to the Union Trails team. Nate, how about you?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

I gotta go with the city championship myself, uh, partially because it's one that I've won. But um I I just I enjoy rotating around uh you know the the private clubs in town and um you know having a change of scenery uh each year and and building relationships with the pros and and all that kind of stuff. It's uh you know, I feel like I got a chance to compete in that one. Kent County used to be my favorite, but I feel like time has passed me by a little bit there.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:55

How about you guys, Mike? You and Garrett have played in them. How about you guys?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:02

I'll let her up, Miggy. I'll save you for last man. Um, my favorite, uh Laddie, Indian Trails in the match play is a close second. Um, uh I kind of ever since going to Indian Trails, obviously, just we can't say enough about that facility for that event. But I I had a tough time with the match play when it was at Stonewater or at Sunnybrook. Um highly competitive, of course, and then switching to the nine-hole pod kind of play matches, but Indian Trails just it it's such it levels the playing field for everybody involved, which is great. And and that's a close second, but my favorite is gonna be the West Michigan Am at the mines. Since you guys have moved this to the mines and getting to play that it's a different type of golf, and it it requires you to be creative and use the ground and hit a lot of golf shots that you wouldn't hit on other golf courses around West Michigan, uh, whether it's in our competitive landscape or not. And I think it's a really, really cool experience and playing out there. And what Chris does is is a lot of fun. You've got to be open-minded.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:07

You like getting kicked in the teeth, is what I heard right there, Garrett.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:10

You've got to be open-minded because I do like a challenge, Laddie, but but yes, uh, might be fortunate to be one of the guys that hits the ball high enough and can land it soft enough on some of those putting surfaces to take advantage where others can't. But it's it's a fun creative test of golf. And when you're talking about from the first T to the 18th green on just being tested in a different way than we're used to, it's it's a cool event.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:36

I for me, some of my best golf memories are the West Michigan Golf Associate, or I'm sorry, the West Michigan Amateur when it was at Candlestone. Yeah. Um just the the they had a group of guys like I talked about earlier, the old the that kind of was the core with uh they just made it fun. Uh they stuck around, they hung out together, and so some of my best memories are from that event at Candlestone. Some of my best golf memories. Um, but if we're talking current times, I I love the event. I love the Kent County Am. Like I love the golf course. I love I never play well there. Uh I've never made the cut there, but I love that event. And I will say that I have such a love-hate relationship with the West Michigan Am in the mines that like it's in my kitchen so bad that I can't wait to play it. And then when I get done, I'm so mad, but I can't wait to play it again the next year because it's the type of golf course that you're so frustrated when you walk off it, but at the same time, you can't get enough of it. It it's it's weird. I don't know how to explain it, it's just weird.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:00

I agree. You don't hit a lot of good golf shots on that golf course and find yourself in the wrong spot, and it's that's tough to swallow sometimes. But get your reps in, man, and you start to figure it out. And this is your year, McGee.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:14

Yeah, I've made the cut uh two out of three years I played in it. So, like to me, that's a big accomplishment. That's pretty good. Yeah, big accomplishment.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:24

Now you enter the senior division, there is no cut, you're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:26

See, Garrett, I gotta enter the senior division because they changed it.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:30

There you go, no cut. That's the selling point. Nate, I'm glad you said that.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:35

I I was gonna play with Garrett this year and a couple of GLG guys in the West Michigan. Uh we'll talk about it offline. So the last question I have for you guys for tonight is um the as far as not just the West Michigan Golf Association, but uh golf in West Michigan uh in general. We've been talking about Grand Rapids all night, but what are some of your favorite places in Michigan when you get outside of Grand Rapids to play golf? Some of your favorite golf courses, uh things of that nature. Andrew, you go first.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

Yeah, Mike, it it's it's pretty easy for me. You know, we're we've got great golf courses here, but you guys have gotten to know me, Garrett and and McGee and Nate. I I love playing with my good close friends and family, right? Like that's that's probably my favorite thing. And uh there's a there's a little golf course up in Potoske, Michigan, Potoski Bayview Country Club. Uh beautiful 62, 6,300 yard course, greens are always perfect. Uh pace of play. I mean, you can play in two hours, two and a half hours. Uh my dad and my stepmom are members out there and spend the summers up there. And uh there's not much better than getting out there at eight o'clock on a Saturday morning and playing two and a half hours, playing in two and a half hours and uh putting on some great greens. And it's got an old clubhouse, the beautiful view over the over the bay right there. And uh there's not much better. So for me, you if you if you you'll see me with a smile on my face if I'm ever out at uh Potaski Bayview Country Club up there.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:11

Nate, before you answer, uh Lad, have you ever played Harbor Point up there?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:16

Oh, yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:17

That is like such a sleeper fun golf course.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:21

That and then there's Hidden River up there. There, there's so many good golf courses up there, and uh, you know, their their summers are a little shorter than ours and can be uh a little chilly, but I love the Potoski area. So that gets my vote.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:35

Garrett, the only way we're gonna play Ladwick's favorite golf course outside of Grand Rapids is if he takes us because it's kind of tough to get on. It's hard to do what it's tough to get on. All right, Nate, what's yours?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:50

Yeah, oh shoot. Uh been been certainly fortunate to play all over the state. Um, yeah, I love it up north too. My favorite up there uh is is Belvedere. Um just that that vibe and and old school nature of that place is is second to none, in my opinion. Um hidden gem, less hidden and less, you know, less hidden these days, but it's still fantastic, is uh Champion Hill. Champion Hill up there by uh Crystal Lake is uh gosh, when I played, I think it was like 40 bucks. I think it's probably 55 or 60 bucks now, but you know, it's BYOB and uh it's it's basically like Crystal Downs Light. I mean it's it there's fescue grass, there's hills, rolling hills, bunkers. It's you can you get a view of of Crystal Lake from uh one of the high points. It's it's exceptional, uh kind of a mom and pop type place. Um and then uh I grew up down in Kalamazoo, uh Kalamazoo area. So uh that a lot of courses down there near and dear to my heart. Uh, grew up caddying at Kalamazoo Country Club, which is uh you know gonna be no more or completely redone this year. But um a shout out to the Kalamazoo area too, because they have a golf association very similar to West Michigan Golf Association. It's smaller, but that's where I cut my teeth, very similar to Andrew in high school, playing in competitive events with you know some of the the mid-ams and seniors and stuff like that, and you know, it helps shape my game. So um yeah, home is still home down there for for a lot of things, but um, yeah, there's a lot of great places to play in the state.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:23

I have to tell you, Nate, that I played Gold Lake Country Club for the very first time the other day, and I looked at Urban, Dan Urban talking about, and I was like, Are you serious? Like, I feel like I'm not hitting bad golf shots, and I've hit like one green in the first seven.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:42

They're like 2,500 square feet.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

Yeah, they're tiny, and you know, short game being not my strength. Uh I was like, This is miserable, you know, but it uh not miserable in a bad way because that's it's a great I loved it out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:58

It was a fun golf course, yeah. No doubt.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:01

Wrap it up, G. Last question I have for either of you if you've got any kind of teasers. Um what's next for the West Michigan Golf Association? What do we as listeners and competitors have to look forward to from you guys? I know we're implementing new tournament software this year, which is exciting. Um, but any kind of nuggets, anything new and different to look forward to in 2026 or board?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:24

Maybe I'll let you take that one.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:26

Yeah, uh, a couple things we've talked about. I mean, new tournament software, senior division going to 50 and up instead of 55. Uh the uh kind of renaming of the Red Ware Cup to the Secotious Cup. Uh, excited about all those things. Um, we got and we and we got Mike and Great Lakes Gear on board to sponsor us uh again, uh, which really helps uh some of the events keep some of the the costs or the cost manageable or the payouts for for prize money and stuff for for the players. So appreciate Mike and GLG for that. Um I think in the future we could you could see us expanding a little bit more on that sponsorship front. Um as being volunteer run, it's it's difficult uh to manage that and make sure that you know we're taking care of uh you know, Mike or any of any sponsors and you know getting getting them to have some value out of it. Um, you know, I think Mike does it uh maybe more out of the goodness of his heart than uh in in loving the association and and all the events than you know, trying to get a real return. But um, you know, we want to balance that if we do uh go down that path. So um yeah, trying to refine, uh make sure we know how to use Gulf Genius, that's probably uh the biggest piece this year.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:35

I'm excited to see all I'm excited to see all of you out there. I think that's you know, we talked about it. That's probably my favorite part of all this. And Garrett, you mentioned we've got those kind of monthly events. It's kind of a nice just anchor on all of our summers to be able to see all of our friends and buddies out there. So as always, uh I'm excited to see everybody out there and uh kick things off here uh starting soon.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:58

Certainly what I look forward to, my guy.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:00

We really appreciate you guys coming on tonight and talking. And uh I'm sure we'll have you guys on in future episodes, but we really appreciate it. I know we kept you for a long time, but just uh thank you for sharing your thoughts and stuff, and we look forward to seeing you guys soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:17

Yeah, thank you. Really, really fun. Appreciate it. We'd love to recap the season or something uh down the road.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:22

It uh, you know, we got a lot of good things coming, so you got it. A lot of good things, but yeah, thanks guys for jumping on and looking forward to a great season and kicking it off this weekend. Last weekend when this goes live.

unknown 1:28:34

Good.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:34

Look forward to seeing you out there.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:36

Cheers.