State of Golf in West Michigan

Welcome back! This week we have a little roundtable as we sit down with Marc Gerst from Quail Ridge Golf Course, Adam Alkema and Kurt Valley from Thornapple Pointe Golf Course, to discuss golf in West Michigan. We cover a wide range of topics including the highlights and challenges of running a golf course to the state of the game in West Michigan. Of Course we also get into a little What's in the Bag and go off topic to discuss the golf ball rollback.

Not Salty golf podcast is brought to you by Great Lakes Gear and Not Salty Golf.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:11

Welcome back to another episode of the Not Salty Golf Podcast with Michael and my main man G Money. This week we sit down with a little round table, Mark Gerst, Adam Alcama, and Kurt Valley. Mark is at Quail Ridge Golf Club, and Kurt and Adam are at Thornapple Point. So we sit down with these guys to just talk about kind of the state of the game, the state of golf in West Michigan. And so sit back and I hope you enjoy. And I have to say that the weather is changing. Looks like summer is finally blessing us. And so hopefully you all are out there out on the golf course, getting some sun and enjoying these higher temperatures that we're we're receiving right now. So thanks for being with us. Hope you enjoy the episode. And let's go. G Money, we have a special panel this week on the podcast. We're gonna introduce everybody real quick, along with obviously G, the main man Money. We have Kurt Valley as our guest. We call him Rico or Rico Suave. Uh he's just if you know him, you'll understand why. Uh Kurt is the general manager at Thornapple Point uh golf course here in Grand Rapids, West Michigan area. Um we have Mark, the main man Gerst part in the stash. Gerst is the uh head professional at uh the Quail Ridge golf course. We had to have Mark on because we talk about Quail Ridge so much, gee money. But uh uh so we're happy to have uh Mark here with us. And we have Adam who does not want to talk about his day today. Alcama, who's uh made it just in time to join the podcast, and Adam is a pro at Thornapple Point. Um we've made no bones about it that Quail Ridge and Thornapple Point are just tremendous golf courses in the Grand Rapids area, and we're very fortunate to have great relationships with them both. Um they've great supporters of Great Lakes Gear, um, obviously tailor-made us, they're all tailor-made staffers. So this is gonna be probably the most boring equipment section talk, uh, because they're all gonna talk about the same thing. Uh, but um, we're just happy to have them all. We're gonna talk about the state of golf as they see it, not only just in the West Michigan area, but around the Great Lakes region. So uh all right, G Money, let's dive right in.

SPEAKER_06 2:48

Yes, McGee. We've uh monopolized this panel today, haven't we? We we have three GLG ambassadors, three tailor-made ambassadors. We've got the odds stacked in our favor. We're doing good. Speaking of odds, I I do want Adam doesn't want to talk about his day Alkama.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I mean, we can talk about it, it's fine. Like, I'm getting over it, I'm still not happy about it, but we could talk about it.

SPEAKER_06 3:13

This podcast will go live next week, Tuesday.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

So between now and the time it goes live, you'll have time to kind of cool off and just I'm getting cooler now because everything's done and everything, but like for the last 12 hours, I it's it's not understating I've wanted to drive into a tree. Oh I do and live, and live. I have to make that point.

SPEAKER_06 3:36

Thanks for clearing that up for the listeners.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

I'll send you the link to mental health awareness awareness.com over here, Adam. Well, knowing I have to work at 9 a.m. tomorrow with Kurt Valley, it does make my night a little easier.

SPEAKER_06 3:51

On that note, we're glad you're here, Adam. I appreciate it. Thank you for being here. Let's uh McGee, what do you think, man? Obviously, we've got two, like you kind of alluded to, we've got two of the premier public golf destination um golf professionals and GM here on with us today. Let's let's kind of segregate a little bit. Let's start with Kurt and Adam. Um talk about your guys' role at Thorn Apple Point, what you guys do, just give the listeners a little bit of background on kind of where you're at and what you're doing in the business.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

Uh we do a little bit of everything. So Adam over here handles pretty much all the leagues that we get coming through. He schedules everything, um, even puts them in the T-sheet, plans all that out for us. He handles the cart staff, all their scheduling. Um, and then obviously on a day-to-day basis, um, he does pretty much everything around the golf shop that we need. Um, I do, I guess, a little bit more on the back end. So I do all the scheduling of our golf outings, which we have over 100 every year. So that definitely keeps me busy. Um, I have my hands tied with F communications with our maintenance team. So Jack and Lloyd over there are always doing stuff, and Jack does a tremendous job at our golf course. Um, basically just try to make him happy is my main goal with the maintenance side of it because he does an absolutely killer job. Um and from there it's just day-to-day operations, right? Making sure everything runs smoothly, communications okay, and everyone knows what's going on. Adam, you want to chime in on any of that side of it?

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah, I I mean my role is basically do what Kurt Valley tells me to and make sure it isn't screwed up. That's a simple way to put it. But as he said, I'd run the leagues. I mean, our leagues total out at 460 players Monday through Thursday. So it's a lot of people moving through a golf course. Day-to-day operations, basically behind the counter and customer interaction. Um, uh you'll be surprised if Kurt's actually behind the counter. There's probably a 90% chance he's back in the office working on food and beverage stuff as opposed to actually creeting customers. But that's fine. I mean, he's the general manager, he's supposed to be dealing with the the back end stuff. The last three weeks, it's been a lot of that, yes.

SPEAKER_06 6:12

Yeah, you guys have had a lot of transition to start the year. Um, how long how long have you two been at Thorn Apple? How long have you two been working together?

SPEAKER_05 6:21

Oh, this will be my fifth summer, and Adam has it's yeah, it's a different uh question.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

So, I mean, I started as a cart kid when I was 16. So I went from 2013 to 2017 as a cart kid, or no, sorry, 2013 to 2019 as a cart kid. So six years there. I went after Grand Ebbs Community College to finish my degree up at Central and left there and then came back after completing my degree in 2021. So this is my fifth summer, technically, sixth summer, I guess. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:56

Holy smokes, as a pro you've been around TP for a while.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Um, yeah, I wouldn't call myself a golf professional. I'd call myself the uh director of lore at Thornapple because if there's something that I don't know, there's a problem.

SPEAKER_06 7:11

Nice director of lore in the duration of time that you've been there, Adam. Obviously, you've seen that place evolve and grow um substantially, uh, pre-COVID, post-COVID. Um, what's the most impactful change and what's the most exciting thing that you've seen occur at Thornapple Point in your tenure?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Oh man, that's so tough. Other than the hiring of Kurt Valley, we've gone through a lot of personnel change, I'll be completely honest. I mean, as a car kid, um, we were not owned by Redwater. So when I first started, it was owned and operated by a group of 20 or so guys as a collaborate, and then Redwater purchased them in 2017. So that was kind of the biggest change there, and then coming back and everything, I would still say the biggest change so far for myself, it's just a different role. Obviously, Car Kid versus Golf Row is completely different, but the people definitely have changed. Um, we're I would say a lot more tight knit with everybody as opposed to back in the day. Uh there's nothing that kind of doesn't get around, I would say. We're trying for for sure, but it's definitely different. But it's not different in a bad way by any means.

SPEAKER_06 8:28

Sure.

unknown 8:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:29

I I tell you, one of the one of the greatest changes I think I've seen in the time um that I've been more closely working with Thorn Apple Point as a tailor mid rep is I appreciate that you and your team are embracing the planes, trans, and automobiles. That is something that was kind of frowned upon in the past. And I love that you guys.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I'll be honest, that's not necessarily me or Kurt. That's a credit to our head pro Nate Cooley. Um, he kind of took over the uh retail side of things when he came in a few seasons ago, and it's completely overhauled from that. And honestly, the motto has been moving and it's been perfect for us. I was always worried about it because I was like, I don't know what trademark is, I don't know what licensing is. The last thing we need is like a phone call from Warner Brothers, whoever owns the rights, and all of a sudden it's like, what are you guys doing?

SPEAKER_06 9:21

Running a golf course, yeah, exactly. So far, listen to this podcast and uh call you. I I love it. I feel like people used to talk about planes, trains, and automobiles, and it was kind of like looked at as a bad thing for Thorn Apple, and just how that's transitioned and how you guys are now just kind of PTA central is pretty pretty great. Um, how about you, Mark? Let's talk you and talk quail. Hello, quail rich.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Uh well it's actually I grew up in Ada, so I grew up playing both of these courses probably pretty equally, um, all through junior golf and growing up. So it's good to be back. I moved back last year, and this is my second season at Quail. Um, the head professional there. I handle pretty much the whole Pro Shop, the retail side of things, and then I get the lovely full-time job of all the outings that Kurt gets to share. It's pretty hectic. This is my first year doing all the outings, and this time of year is nuts because everybody's just planning for their summer outing at this time. So it feels like meeting after meeting, but it's good. Uh, we don't do quite as many, we're like 60 to 80, depending on the year. Uh, but the food and beverage side of it is so much more important than the golf side of it for all these people who are hosting and whatnot. So that's been an adjustment, but it's been good. You start to know the menu like the back of your hand and know the prices down to the cents and percentages and all those things, but um, it's fun. And then I focus on, I mean, I teach at a group level and I teach about 30 students um that are regulars, and then I'm trying to get more into club fitting. So that's been my kind of forte this year so far, which has been fun, as long as the weather cooperates a little bit more.

SPEAKER_06 11:03

Love that. And McGee, I see you're about ready to chime in on something here, but I'm gonna hold the phone for a hot minute here because Mark, um, obviously you are the jack of all trades at at Quail and and you're talking club fitting, and you just mentioned that moment a moment ago. But you are the newest to Team Taylormaid. So I'm gonna insert my shameless brand plug and talk you and your your coming on to Taylor Maid and what that's been like for you.

SPEAKER_04 11:28

Yeah, it's been an awesome switch. Um, I've been in the industry for five years, most mostly with titleists. But when I was coaching college, you weren't really on staff with anybody, you just had a couple relationships with am reps and things like that. And being back in the area, it's been great to get to know Garrett and play with you personally. But uh, it's also been good to align with a company that wants to you know grow a fitting area that Quail really hasn't touched. Um, we haven't had a huge fitting department for for all I know in the past five, six years. Um, and Garrett's been great to me. The clubs have been treating me pretty good. Um, the little rounds I've played this year have been going well, but um QID4, man, it's easy to fit. Everyone's loving it.

SPEAKER_06 12:11

Don't sell yourself short, man. Game looks good, especially now that you got that broomstick back in the bag.

SPEAKER_04 12:15

I know, I can't believe I switched. I've been I've been brooming for now two years, and the spider convinced me to switch after watching Rory Pora man, but it lasted about a week and now I'm back. So back back to normal.

SPEAKER_06 12:28

I love that. And speaking of kind of expanding on the fitting offerings, you guys are you guys have some exciting growth plans and initiatives at Quail um coming up here this year.

SPEAKER_04 12:38

Yeah, and I mean pretty much released in terms of out there, um, but our official press release should be coming pretty close to this uh podcast release day, which would work out great. But uh we have a teaching facility that is breaking ground currently, um, indoor outdoor hitting stalls. We're gonna do eight bays, um two more on the teaching fitting front, and then six more open style. Um, but it'll be nice to get into the winter space. Quail's been closed seasonally since we've opened, so we get tired of twiddling our thumbs out there and coming up with side projects. So it'll be fun to be open year-round and uh probably do some sort of leagues and things like that. Obviously, you guys have the awesome live golf studios that I come visit quite frequently in the offseason. So yeah, great.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

Just what we need more competition in the area.

SPEAKER_04 13:26

Hey, I won't be I won't be around hanging out as much, but I'll still come say hi.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

Mark, all I'm gonna say is this enjoy twiddling your thumbs in the winter because when you're working four or five days a week in the simulators, yeah, it's like four hours of oh my gosh, this kind of sucks, and then three hours of wow, I wanna, I am twiddling my thumbs.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Yeah, yeah, I'm uh not looking forward to some of the hours for sure, but it'll be nice to continue to teach at least. That was kind of the weirdest part with newer students, especially people I picked up in the August and September months, and then you just have to kind of say see ya when you got, you know, there's people teaching golf year-round in Grand Rapids all over the place. So you probably lose that student most of the time, unless they are a regular equip of some sorts, but definitely be good for your better players because you can keep them coming. Yeah, it was doing it was like so much. I did a decent amount of like virtual work, but that's just not. I mean, it's like a swing video from some other simulator place, and then you know, like I said, there's an instructor everywhere, so odds are they probably just find someone that you can get a book a lesson with for that hour.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

It's just what you guys need. Hogan more in the winter.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

Yeah, no kidding. He's gonna need his own bay. We should put a name, his name over it.

SPEAKER_06 14:40

You should name a bay after him.

SPEAKER_04 14:42

No, what I think we should we should put a T outside, like a artificial tea outside the new building and put his name next to it so you can hit outside stuff. That's even better with a shovel. So you can just kind of use your spots still if you want, you can still rip it down one. Um, but yeah, that's exciting. That's uh obviously been really big. Um, Kyle and Tim uh are two owners out there at Quail. Uh Tim's our superintendent, and Kyle's our general general manager. Uh, but fun working with them. Tim gotta shout him out too. Of course, he's looking great and always does. The guys do a great job, but uh yeah, it's fun. It's been a fun year working for them, but also just I think it's fun for them to be new ownership and being able to kind of look at what they can do more into the future and um make some changes if they want to, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

Nice. I was gonna ask you guys because we're all friends here, and even though you're competitors in some sense, um you mentioned, Mark, that you're outings and sometimes you'll work together on outings. If you can't cannot accommodate an outing, you might call Thornapple, see if they can, or vice versa. Um, how much collaboration goes into your guys' relationship as far as the different golf courses?

SPEAKER_05 16:00

I think a lot of it's just an open line of communication. Um, I don't think anyone, you know, in this group or between Quail and Thornapple have anything against the other guys. It's, you know, we're all in the golf industry, but we're not even necessarily in competition with each other because we're so busy. So it's like, hey, we're just trying to make golf a better place. So if we can't, you know, if we can't accommodate someone, it's like, well, I know someone who's good that can. So, you know, it's always a give and take. And, you know, we just want everyone to have a good time.

SPEAKER_04 16:35

Yeah, I couldn't agree with Kurt Moore in there. Honestly, you hear so much from the customer or potential customer. Um, and a lot of it comes down to more availability than anything else. I mean, you only can do two outings a day on a golf course, and most people reach out with I want an outing on June 10th, and that's the date I want it. And if you can't provide, then you might as well. I mean, location's huge too. We're literally about two and a half miles or something down the road from each other. Um, price points pretty similar, service is going to be the same. And like I hear all the time from people about ideas from outings that you guys host. And you know, you hear so much from people who've host most of these outings have been around for years and they're just on rotations and switch dates, and so it's it's easy to throw it, throw it your way, and I'm sure it's easy to throw it back just because it's you can kind of guarantee the product in a way. Like, I would never feel bad. Like I could say, go over there and see if he's available, and they're never come back to me like I had a horrible time. Thanks, Mark. I know that you guys will nail it out of the park the same way that if you send someone our way, we'll do the same. So outings are hard though, too, but it's all about your systems. And if you do a hundred of them or sixty-five of them, everybody who works them, it's a normal day. It's not like a hectic show. Everyone's got a place and a time, and everyone knows what they're doing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Nice. We you guys had mentioned this each of you guys mentioned your superintendents, and uh, we're gonna get to them uh later in the podcast because you two both have great superintendents that are very underrated, um that deserve a lot of credit. So we'll get to that later in the podcast. Um but for right now, um you guys, Thornapple Point is part of the Redwater group. Mark, you guys at Quail are individually owned by with Kyle and Tim, as you had mentioned. Maybe you you guys can talk about Adam. You mentioned you'd been there pre-Redwater and after Redwater. Can you just maybe tell our listeners a little bit like what it's like working for a corporation in the golf industry, more so than like what it's like working for just an individual owner? Maybe Adam, you can start with that.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

It's definitely different. Uh, there's a little bit of uh communication uh difference where it's like when it was back in the day, I mean, Chris Soback used to be part of the owner slash GM. He was always at Thornapple. So if there was ever a question, it was hey, stop back in the office, ask him. Or now it's Jeff's over at the corporate office at Watermark to send him a Teams message. So it's it's a little different, but uh the communication, everything is still there. I think the main thing is our just I mean, we have eight golf courses, now ten. Uh it's an open line of communication between all of our golf professionals that actually makes life a little easier, to be honest with you. So it's it's different, but it's again different in a good way because of the fact that you know we're a bigger, stronger group as more one than opposed to just individually, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

So does that give you like buying power because you do you or is every buying system individual to the golf course, or can you guys combine all of your golf courses for more buying power when you're buying food, beverage, soft goods, balls, equipment, all of that?

SPEAKER_00 20:13

I I I mean technically yes, because as a Redwater collection, when you're ordering it for 10 golf courses, the ordering definitely is discounted 100%. Um I don't know too much on the retail side. I'll be honest, that's probably a current check-in. But uh I know it is discounted a little bit. Yeah, we do get some buying power with the amount that we do.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

Gerst, and then can you talk a little bit about uh you know, you're in a different situation, not so corporate. Um, so you're probably flying by the seat of your pants like over here one minute and then taking care of something else the next minute is in you know, all over the place. So what's that like for you?

SPEAKER_04 20:56

Yeah, you know, it's it's in I've never worked at a golf course um like the situation I'm in right now. Just because it's I mean, my owner is 10 steps from me, and I just knock on the door to talk to him. So um he's kind of empowered me to take over at least most things golf. When we talk bigger items, especially things coming for like the future. But in terms of the smaller regards, like when we talk cart fleet or we talk pro shop ordering, we're really you know watching our numbers and when the bills are gonna hit um in the offseason. We don't have revenue coming in, and we it's just those types of things that as a seasonal business with not a huge umbrella um of funds on top of it. We don't go to the down to the PGA show and order, you know, a ton of items at PEEP pre booking just because that's a little too early for us to take delivery. Um, so that's something that was unique to me. I previously worked in a place in Austin, Texas that was a private golf club that was open year round. So we'd be bringing in these huge orders to get some more savings, like you said. On the buying power side. Where when I'm talking at Quill, I'm usually talking what's your order minimums and things like that in regards to new brands. But it's it's super cool to work that closely with ownership and with an ownership that you know wants to put some money back into the place. They're not uh super tight about what they want to do. I mean, we redid the whole Pro Shop and kind of we probably tripled our retail ordering for this year, and that was kind of strictly just because I think that golf is at that point where people are buying stuff, but we'll see how it goes, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

Yeah. Garrett, I want to kind of switch gears a little bit. You know, this has been great background, but um talk about like the state of golf in West Michigan from these guys' perspective. Obviously, if you're listening to this podcast, you have an interest in golf, and you know that when COVID hit, um, which was a terrible thing for all of us in the country, uh, if anything good came out of COVID from from a sports standpoint, golf exploded. Uh when people got the green light to go outside, they went out and they played golf and they I think it got a lot of new people into the game of golf. So as we are five, six years past that you know, peak, I just would like to talk about kind of what you guys all think the state of golf is in West Michigan. Is it still as strong as it was two, three years ago? Uh what are you seeing out there? And I don't know, Garrett, if you have maybe some more specific questions, because that's very broad for these guys. Um, but I think that'd be a cool topic to discuss right now.

SPEAKER_06 23:47

Yeah, I don't disagree. Um, I'm gonna table, I have a something I'm gonna bring up later on in this podcast that might spin up to be something quite fun as the season continues to transpire. But let's talk that. Um, I do appreciate the state of the game, and obviously post-COVID has seen exponential growth in the golf business. Um, both for you guys, I'm sure, as golf professionals, and and how busy you've seen your respective golf courses become, and also just whether it's new individuals taking up the game or folks like Mark Hougwind, who's just perpetually hitting balls and gonna be a forever Quillridge guy, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Um I mean Kerr Valley does that too, it's not just Hogan, it's okay. But Kern only does it for like two weeks a year. Correct.

SPEAKER_05 24:37

Yeah, I have a tournament so I hit balls every day for two weeks, and then I'll shut it down for about a month.

SPEAKER_06 24:43

There you there you go. Adam, you might want to be careful just in case Jeff Carlson tunes into this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

I don't know what I haven't said anything. I think Jeff's great. Jeff's been open and honest with all of us.

SPEAKER_06 24:55

Kurt's only hitting balls after hours before the sun comes up and after the sun goes down.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Kurt knows his schedule very well. I think Kurt's doing just fine.

SPEAKER_06 25:05

But uh let's you guys have both you guys both mentioned doing just an exorbitant amount of outings over the course of a season. Um, Kurt, five years in, five years pretty well aligns with post-COVID era, if you will. Have you seen the outing landscape and the public play volume increase at a pretty steady clip since you've been there?

SPEAKER_05 25:26

I mean, it's stayed pretty, I feel like it stayed pretty much where it's at, but there isn't too much, there's only so many days in the year to put out outings. So, you know, you're going from, you know, 120 one year to 115 the next year to, you know, 106 to 120. So we've stayed pretty um we've just stayed right there with it. I think the biggest thing that we've noticed with the COVID boom is the pace of play and you know, the way that people treat the golf course out there. So like when COVID hit, I feel like there wasn't as much etiquette taught. People just went and played golf. So when they were out there, there wasn't a ranger, there wasn't anybody out there to talk to and say, hey, fix your divots, fix your ball marks. They just went and played golf and there was no one else out there. There's one person taking cash at the T because you know you weren't even necessarily supposed to be open. Or if you were open, right, you couldn't have them inside. So you had a trailer set up outside to take payments. Um, so pace of play, I'd say, is one of the biggest differences I've seen with the post-COVID um hit. Outside of that, um we've absolutely stayed busy. There's really been no fall. If anything, we just have kept growing every year as far as the amount of rounds we put out and what's been going on, and our shop sales keep going up. So as far as the spending goes, nothing has really decreased or changed for us.

SPEAKER_06 26:59

How about you, Mark? What are you seeing over at Quail two seasons deep? You seeing kind of an influx? Are you seeing the growth kind of still there as we head into 2026?

SPEAKER_04 27:08

Yeah, I mean, the weather's been up, down from outing standpoint, definitely a lot of influx of people interested in hosting a golf outing, but not quite the amount of golfers for a golf outing, if that makes sense. So the amount of inquiries I'm getting from a company or a small group or a trip, and it it comes through our outing portal through our website. Um, so like there's this big influx and people wanting to do groups and wanting to you know put together events, which is kind of what I like to do too. So it makes sense. It's more fun to play with a bunch of people you know, or if you do it for a cause, you can make some money or break even on it. Um, but in terms of busyness, it's it's weather dependent. We get a lot, I'm noticing a lot more like last second um bookings this year, probably because of the weather. But um, just like we'll be looking like it's gonna be a pretty low-key afternoon, and then by two or three o'clock, it's full. Um, people browsing at work in their in their mid-afternoons. Um, and then leagues now kick up, so it's like our golf course, like Adam said, it's uh 400 some people a week Monday through Thursday from 4:30 to 6:30. So you get to see a little bit of uptick in public play, and then you kind of squash it, unfortunately, with how how many tea times they take. But uh T sheet fills up when people aren't working midday. I think we our target market seems to maybe be switching. Uh, we we don't have as many senior groups as we did um last year, but that's just in one month. Sometimes they rotate a lot based on the senior rates and the spring rates and things like that.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

Sure. I'm glad you use the words target market there. Um, because that was gonna be my next curiosity is year in and year out in this business and and what you guys are seeing as far as who's coming through your golf shop. Are you seeing a shift in demographic? Whether it's male to female, seniors to juniors, age range, what's kind of evolving there?

SPEAKER_04 29:07

Yeah, kind of just piggybacking on what I just said. I would say our target market's about the same. It's always been before one o'clock uh during the week, I'll say. During the weekends, if it's nice, we're we're fully booked, just like everywhere else in town, I feel like. But during the week, it's about the same crew of members and and uh regulars, you'd say. And then I think the target market's getting younger, uh, but that's just because I'm getting older, I guess. Um, but these the people who are coming in, and even the people who are buying beers at the bar just look younger and they like I know them from high school, or my little brother knows some of these people. And it seems like everyone who's competitive in something or was competitive in something might, you know, be willing to come deal with the maybe slower play or a higher price for nine holes rather than um the older market. But also, I think this area just has a lot of private clubs that a decent amount of people are members at. So our target market, or maybe just the market that comes through, is a lot of young guys who don't quite have that home spot yet or haven't decided. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 30:08

It's good to have that uh those regular guys, you know, the ones that are just always on your t-shirt at like 12:30 on a Friday or two on a Sunday. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Just don't let them play into eight sums. Only at Quail Ridge. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 30:26

You guys are talking about an interesting thing, and I want to give you each a chance to kind of give your opinion on the rate topic, because you know, there's a lot of people say, Oh, they keep raising rates, and um, they might say that in a negative way, but at the same point if your golf course is constantly full and you're turning away people, um you have to do something to kind of equalize the supply and demand aspects of the economics of it. So can you talk about like the the rates uh uh at each of your golf courses and the thinking behind of raising the rates, where your rates are at right now, and just kind of the yeah, that that whole deal?

SPEAKER_00 31:20

I would say it's kind of tough to judge, to be honest with you. Um, I think the main thing that Grand Rapids Golf especially doesn't understand is the supply that we have. I mean, we only have nine-minute increments, which is actually pretty standard for the industry. There's only so many tea times to go around. So when it comes to rates, it it fluctuates depending on the season, obviously. But if we're at our peak summer and it's at 95 and our t sheet is full, it's hard to justify moving it down when people are complaining about the rates because if they're complaining, they're gonna be like, Well, that foresome just called and booked it regardless. So I I mean, obviously we want to make everybody happy, but but at the same time, we're still a business. We're in we're trying to make money.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

Yeah. Kurt, what as you know the GM in in those meetings, what are some of the conversations? You know, not you don't have to get in detail, but what's the synopsis of those conversations when you're talking about rates and stuff?

SPEAKER_05 32:26

I mean, it is all supply and demand, right? Um that's why we've gone to dynamic pricing now. So we use golfback, and you know, they they price it for you. And so it raises it based on how busy it is. They even have in there now a weather tool. So if it's gonna be 80 and sunny, it's gonna be more expensive than if it's you know 65 and slightly drizzly. So um there's a lot of things out there that help you do it without even you having to go in and change the rates yourself. So we use those, which helps us out a ton. Um, and then when you're going through it, it's it is it's all about supply and demand and what you can get in certain places. Um, the reason we do so many outings is it's guaranteed money. So when you can get guaranteed money golf and food and beverage wise, I mean, you're gonna get that money regardless if it's, you know, like we were just talking about weather, whether it's 80 and sunny or 60 and drizzling, you're gonna get that money from the outing. They're gonna come in and eat. And outings will typically spend just a little bit more in booze than uh your standard golfer. So, I mean, that's kind of our bread and butter, and we definitely push to get as many outings as we can. But at the same time, with how much it's growing, golf is um, it's starting to get to the point where like Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, you start to look at the rates and what everyone's doing. It's like, well, we can charge a little bit more, and if that pushes some outings out, you know, it it may happen. So these are all things that we go through. We talk about, we see where the revenue is coming from, what you're gonna get dollar per player, and go from there.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah. And Mark, you guys at Quail, um, are you on a dynamic pricing structure or what's your guys' conversations and mindset there?

SPEAKER_04 34:17

Yeah, so we we also use Golfback for our booking engine, and I met with them down at the show, and we were kind of gonna we were gonna discuss some dynamic pricing. We did not go with it yet. Um, and it's been more of just like I it's my opinion, and that's pretty much what I share with Kyle. But I think it's I think it's a really good model, just in order, like like Kurt said, you don't technically really have to do as much, but it's actually tracking things that you would be looking at. So, like when I am looking through my t-shirt with fixed pricing model, I'm constantly looking at the weather, constantly looking at frost, constantly looking at how busy we are in regard to having to manually change something. Um, so the dynamic pricing model makes sense to me. Um, it was explained to me really well at the show is it's just like the airlines. Um, like when have you just had like a standard price for a flight from here to somewhere else? And if the plane's full, that one seat left is probably gonna be worth a lot. If the plane's empty, it might be discounted. And those types of things make a ton of sense to me in the golf space. Um, the other side of the opinion, especially, or just at Quail, is you know, you get people playing the golf course frequently. How are they gonna feel about you know paying X amount of dollars one day and then the next day paying something else? Or you've got a guy checking in at 9.51 and he swipes his card for this and he sticks around in the pro shop and he hears the next guy paying six dollars less. Like little things, you know, that you have to think about, but that's just those are the conversations that have been floating around our space. Um, I think during the week it's pretty consistent where it's not as at least in the springtime, we see pretty consistent play, no matter if it's beautiful out or if it's okay out. On the weekends, I definitely could have seen some value in dynamic pricing this year by far.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Yeah, I'm sure there's no perfect system, and it's you just doing the best you can with the information you have and learning from each other in the industry and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

Um rates are always hard. I mean, it's it's tricky. Obviously, we want to make everybody happy, but again, more businesses we're trying to make money.

SPEAKER_02 36:25

Yeah, I get it. And it's golf is busy right now, especially in the Grand Rapids area. I am shocked that Grand Rapids does not have more public course options.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

They all closed, man.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

I mean, you look at before COVID. I mean, you lost three golf courses in the Grand Rapids area alone.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yep. And you guys being kind of the premier. I would say quail, thorn apple, um, the mines, Kaufman is an unbelievable golf course for being a city course. Um there's there's options and a lot of good golf in in the West Michigan area. Um and so I'm sure it's just not a perfect process, and you guys are doing the best you can. So I appreciate you guys explaining that. Um kind of moving on from that topic. Can you guys maybe just talk about and tell our listeners what what are you looking at in the future? I know I know you guys have conversations and are always thinking about a year down the road, two, three, four years down the road. Where do you see golf in in the future? Uh I'd say short-term future, not long term. And what kind of changes do you foresee we could that could be coming uh down the road here?

SPEAKER_04 37:50

I'll go. Um, I kind of feel like it might be a hot take. Well, it might happen on tour, but I think the ball rollback's gonna be super interesting for the golf world, especially if it actually hits the whole entire golf world.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

And I am uh when does it even hit for amateurs?

SPEAKER_04 38:07

I don't even I don't even know in terms of I I don't follow the logistics of the USGA that that intensely, but I am very pro ball rollback actually, which is kind of a hot take, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

But okay, hold on. Garrett, Garrett, what's your opinion on that role? Hold on. I asked the question and we are pivoting immediately. Did you just say you are in favor of the golf ball rollback? Absolutely. All right, wrong. All right, hold on, hold on. I'm in favor of not working out, too. Are you in favor of the golf ball rollback?

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Absolutely not. The the the game of golf has changed because these golfers are becoming athletes as opposed to back in 1995.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Okay, Kurt Valley, are you in favor of the golf ball rollback?

SPEAKER_00 38:55

Of course not.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Garrett Smith, are you in favor of the golf ball rollback?

SPEAKER_06 38:59

I love Gertz, of course not.

SPEAKER_05 39:02

With with authority, like I mean, it's the it's the worst idea that has ever came around.

SPEAKER_06 39:08

Like or small driver heads up. Why?

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Guys in the NBA are too athletic. Let's let's raise the rims to 12 feet because they can dunk too easily. Like, you know, guys in the NFL catch the ball too good. We're gonna tape their hands together and see how they play. Like, why?

SPEAKER_06 39:25

No, I don't I'm I'm with KV and Adam on this one. Sorry, Gerst, but I think the rollback is a just bonkers idea.

SPEAKER_05 39:33

I think the entire thing is that the let the bulls play and see how far they can hit it.

SPEAKER_06 39:37

The entire concept of it, though. I mean, like you're you're trying to change for the masses what really only applies to a fraction of a percentage of a fraction of a percentage of golfers, and it's just it seems stupid.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

And we are all in that fraction of a the fraction of the fraction because we're all amazing golfers.

SPEAKER_04 39:56

Yeah, yeah. I guess my biggest oh go ahead, McGee.

SPEAKER_02 40:00

I was gonna say if they want to ban anything, what I've learned so far this early golf season, they need to ban hot yoga because apparently if you thank you, somebody else said it.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Oh my goodness. If you go to hot yoga, I have to get invited to another 6 a.m. yoga class.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

You immediately hit it 30 yards further.

SPEAKER_06 40:18

This is another great opportunity, another great opportunity to insert shameless sponsor plug for anybody that would like to attend a yoga class at yoga six. Classes for new guests are free for two weeks, and I will be there at 6 a.m. tomorrow. Any of you four are welcome to join.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

So I'll put in my opinion on this real quick. I played with Garrett yesterday, and he had a 6 a.m. yoga class, and he hit the ball pretty good. He we played this morning, he did not have a 6 a.m. yoga class. He did not hit the ball very well on the front line, and then I had to leave, of course. So I don't know what happened afterwards, but there might be some statistics that say it works. I don't believe it.

SPEAKER_06 40:56

There's a correlation there, man.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

I was playing with Garrett on Friday, and I looked at him. We were riding in the cart, and I said, Don't take this the wrong way. I'm like, you might be the biggest transformation from uh fall to spring golfer that I've seen ever. You're hitting it further than I've ever seen you hit it. The strike just sounds better. And he's like, Why would I take that as a con or you know, take that negative? And I I just said, Well, I don't want you to think that I think you were not hitting it good before or last year, but there's a distinct difference in the way he's hitting a golf ball this year compared to last year. So for me, if I take that to the next level, these PGA Tour pros have a Yogo 6 studio with them 24-7.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah, they don't have to pay for it.

SPEAKER_02 41:54

Right. When they're at home, when they're on the road. So they're working on their bodies every day. And I see the difference in the impact it's had on Garrett's game. So I have a whole new appreciation for these professional golfers, as Kurt said, athletes that are working on their bodies and hitting the ball further. Golf is the only sport I know where it's just a bunch of crybabies. It's like when Liv golf came around, like you thought the world was ending, and the golf world was ending. Brandel Chambly, all these people on the golf channel just whining like they were little kids. Tell me a sport like the basketball, football, where a and football like the XFL comes out, where the NFL just cried because oh my gosh, there's another league. We're so threatened. But golf, they they just cry about it.

SPEAKER_06 42:50

They don't like change, McGee.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

They don't.

SPEAKER_05 42:53

Best thing to happen for the PGA tour, or for the players, I should say, on the PGA tour. Just because they got more money.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

And here we are looking at these athletes, which they should be celebrated as athletes, and we want to restrict them because the golf courses, you know, we have to lengthen them, and that costs more water and resources. You do not have to lengthen golf courses. Grow the rough, make it firm and fast, change the way you set up golf courses. Then you it just don't even get me going.

SPEAKER_00 43:27

So after this weekend, I could say you make any golf course with 50 mile an hour winds, these guys don't have a chance. Yeah, you guys know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:37

Or we can just roll the ball back, and we'll be fine.

SPEAKER_06 43:40

Mark, if we roll the ball back, can we roll it like into a little different aerodynamic package where it goes straighter? No, I think actually Charlie.

SPEAKER_04 43:49

No, Charlie Hall said it best the small driver heads and blades would be the way to nuke like you could lower the C have a maximum C C with driver, would be the best way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 44:00

I agree with that 100%.

SPEAKER_04 44:03

Like if you especially on tour, if you just want to limit the Taylor Maid would never bombers, Taylor Made would never mini driver maximum on tour. Everyone plays an R7.

SPEAKER_05 44:14

Those guys are still gonna hit it three times out of the face.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Absolutely, they'll hit a 330.

SPEAKER_06 44:19

I'm gonna raise a question here because uh speaking of Taylor Maid and our particular tour presence and brand ambassadors out there, um, namely Roy McElroy, from an entertainment perspective, rolling the golf ball back does what? It obviously it impacts him probably more significantly than others. But if you're an avid golf fan, if you're watching golf to be entertained by watching golf, do you want to watch Roy McElroy fly at 330 or do you want to watch Roy McElroy fly at 290?

SPEAKER_00 44:50

I want to watch Rory McElroy blow it 50 yards right on 18 masters and then somehow still make par.

SPEAKER_04 44:57

All right. Right there's a great example. That ball is so much farther right if the ball is rolled back and he loses.

SPEAKER_05 45:04

Then he's got an even more open shot because he's in the fairway of another hole.

SPEAKER_04 45:07

But but to your point, Gary, I think the entertainment value of a snap hook in the or a toe bang into the water because you missed it by this much adds entertainment, not takes away. Okay, and the scores aren't even the scores aren't even that much lower, like nowadays compared to back in the days, but these guys were hitting huge hooks and huge slices, and their misses were way wider, but they didn't hit it quite as far. But the game was who could hit it closest to the screws or play one shape all day?

SPEAKER_06 45:37

Different kind of entertainment. I don't like it.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

It depends on what you consider golf. Is golf trying to beat as far as you can and flip a wedge and be a good putter, or is it who can hit it closest to the center of the face and grab the best 14 clubs to go win the golf tournament? I mean, it doesn't really matter, but I think if you take away the distance, I mean, just like what Rory was bottom in the field in accuracy, and he won by a couple. Like you, if you if you don't gain the distance on the field, then you don't win because you probably sprayed it left and right more than anybody else.

SPEAKER_05 46:09

He's gonna find a way to win either way.

SPEAKER_04 46:11

Well, Rory's an anomaly. If you get what I'm coming from from the entertainment value, I actually think that's like failing, is what people want to watch, and like a bigger fail is like more relatable, too.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

I do not want to see golf turn into NASCAR, where it's like, let's make every car the exact same speed and see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

Yeah, those cars don't even blow up anymore, it's ridiculous. It's way too safe.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

There's a lot of truth in that. They NASCAR lost a ton of fans when they started putting all these restrictions on cars.

SPEAKER_06 46:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 46:55

Um I don't know. But Rory won the Masters, I believe, because of his short game. His short game was phenomenal that week. Uh he did drive it all over the lot, but I just don't want to see them go make everybody hit it from the same spot. I I just don't see the benefit in that for entertainment. And you're taking a talent away from a golfer. And I don't agree that you would make decisions to take a talent away from a golfer. That that that in my opinion. Um, the other thing I'll say quickly, and then I'll step aside, is I do miss the shot making. Like I'm a lot older than all you guys. When I was growing up, it was shot making. It was hit a draw, hit a cut. Very rarely would you see somebody hit a very straight golf ball. It was always curving one way or the other. But the equipment allowed it with the golf balls and the clubs they were using back then. I would like to see, like Mark, you said I heard that comment Charlie Hall made. I would like to see some limitations on the equipment the professionals can play to bring some of that shot making back into the game of golf. And I think that's what made Tiger Woods such an amazing, not just athlete, but an entertainment and why he moved the needle so much is he hit golf shots. And a lot of these guys on tour, I think, are robots. And that's the old school take from me.

SPEAKER_04 48:34

Well, I think Tiger's a great example of even with uh Ballada, you can overpower the tour. I mean, he was longer than him and John Daly were the only long guys ripping that golf. Like he still did it, even with an old like a spinny ball. You could still have people who are that long and that good, but it's not everybody. I mean, the average, it's more of like the averages. I think it's all a long averages.

SPEAKER_00 48:56

Hopefully, there's one person that is listening to this podcast right now, because I have to tune in. Tiger Woods was not a good driver of the golf ball back in the day, and there's one person that that is targeting, and Garrett knows who it is. I'm not gonna say his name, but hopefully he's listening.

SPEAKER_06 49:10

You you wanted to be on this to just send that to the masses, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 49:15

I love Tiger Woods, but he was not that great of a driver of golf ball. You know, Bryson statistically didn't hit fairways either, but unfortunately, when he's 30 yards past everybody, it helps.

SPEAKER_02 49:24

I would are you I would say historically you had that could be an accurate statement, but when Tiger went on his run in those early 2000s, when he had to hit the T shot, he hit the T shot.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

And well, yeah, that's his main thing has been his clutch ability. I mean, when it needed to be done, it was done.

SPEAKER_02 49:44

And but I'll also say this to that point, Adam. If you go to YouTube and put in Tiger Woods highlights, what made him so amazing was, and they said this about Jordan, like he made shots that others were afraid to take. Uh, and Tiger was the same way. He pulled off shots that nobody else on the planet would attempt in that scenario, in that moment. He just had no fear, and so that I think that added to like his lore and legend was a lot of his highlights are out of weird bad spots, but he recovered from them. Does if that makes sense in a way.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

I think McGee thinks I'm like 24. I'm like a little older than that. I still do remember seeing Tiger in his prime, you know, I just a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 50:34

I'm not applying that, but I did just use the Google and had a little consult here that says Tiger Woods' driving accuracy percentage in the years 1999 and 2000 was 71.3 percent and 71.2 percent, respectively. And that is a lot of fairways hit for a bad driver for a bad driver of the golf ball.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

Bad driver of the golf ball, just a bad driver in general. There we go.

SPEAKER_07 51:03

There we go.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Here we go. Oh, you guys like the editing for this episode is gonna, I'm gonna be up for all night trying to edit.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

Just publish it. This one's raw, man. Yeah, this is raw, unfiltered.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Going back on the original question was like the biggest changes of golf. I'm more curious to see now that live is folding, what's gonna happen with all these guys that sign this giant live contract going back to PGA? I mean, Bryson comes out today and says he's going to YouTube golf. Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_02 51:36

I think it's awesome. I think it's I am all for the man that controls his own destiny and says, I want to do this and I'm gonna do it. There's just I have a spot in my heart for any individual that does what they want to do and doesn't always have to conform to the rules and like what you should do. Um with that said, I the thing I hope the PGA tour does take from Liv, and I'm not defending Liv, I'm not that's a totally different topic, and we're not touching on that tonight. But what I do hope the PGA tour does do is allow these individuals on the PGA tour to have rights to their golf shots and everything, and their name, image, likeness, if you want to say when they're on the PGA tour. Because I watch some of Bryson's YouTube content. If Roy McElroy came out with the YouTube channel, if Scotty Scheffler came out with the YouTube channel, if a lot of these tour guys came out with the YouTube channel, I would watch to see what they're doing behind the scenes, get to know them a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 52:55

Um God, I might be the minority here, but I hate YouTube golf. I'm sorry, I have to say it. I think it's terrible.

SPEAKER_06 53:05

Yeah, I I'm back on the tour.

SPEAKER_02 53:08

And that's two that could be two different topics, too, right, Adam? Like YouTube golf. Like, am I what sitting down at my computer and watching a whole hour of YouTube golf episode? No, I'm not. But when Bryson puts out his YouTube shorts or Instagram posts on you know, with that content, yeah, I'm watching a little bit here and there.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

And I've watched one YouTube golfer and his name is Ari Jackman.

SPEAKER_06 53:35

It's not the Dodge King. You strike me as a Dodd King kind of guy.

SPEAKER_00 53:39

My God, that kid deserves to be hit.

SPEAKER_04 53:42

Yeah, the Dodd King. I think the YouTube golf is really good for I mean, we are collectively, we're all just golf. We work in the industry, we've been around it for so long. Like to go jump on YouTube and watch more golf. Like, I watch PGA Tour mostly every week, so I already watched enough golf. But I think of like my little brother and all his friends on his high school team, like they are watching every single YouTube video that comes out because that's more intriguing to them than what Scotty Scheffer does week in, week out.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

Yeah, you can watch me shoot 113 on my US Open qualifier next week.

SPEAKER_04 54:18

Are you a film crew? Come out there and get too locked in.

SPEAKER_02 54:26

Like everything, there's positive and negatives to it, and we could sit sit here and debate all of it. But if YouTube golf is bringing a whole different type of individual to the game of golf, and it's helping to grow the game, especially for you guys, like that's a good thing in my mind.

SPEAKER_00 54:48

In a way, yes. I would argue that guys that are watching YouTube golf are the same ones that picked it up in COVID. And it goes back to like what Kurt brought up. Uh, pace of play is not necessarily on their mindset, so they kind of do whatever they want.

SPEAKER_02 55:03

It's called the Rangers out on the golf course.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

Yeah, these rangers are sweet, innocent old men. And they're they're not gonna do anything.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Put me on a golf cart, I'll go ranger.

SPEAKER_04 55:15

Yeah, you can get on a card of quail. I'll go ranger whenever you want, Mikey. Just let me let me know what I owe you.

SPEAKER_07 55:22

Go get them.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

I'd see a six sum out there, and I'd be like, one, two, three, four, five. There's only six of you. You guys are good.

SPEAKER_05 55:30

Oh, you max you each have your throw another one down and hit it while the other guy's hitting.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

You gotta get some practice swings in. One of my favorite stories ever was we had an old Ranger and starter named Ken Krull, and there was a review on YouTube where or not YouTube, sorry, Google. And the review was the ranger told us we should be on the range, not the course, and that we were behind face. We all thought that was the greatest thing in the world.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 56:03

World needs more rangers like that.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Garrett, I totally forgot where we were at in this. We kind of totally pivoted once. Mark Gers made the one comment, we completely pivoted, and now we're in a totally different direction.

SPEAKER_06 56:17

Sorry, truthfully, that's exactly how this should be.

SPEAKER_00 56:20

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_06 56:21

This is by design.

SPEAKER_00 56:23

We were talking about the change of golf and the future.

SPEAKER_06 56:26

Future, the state of the game, and all right.

SPEAKER_02 56:30

We'll we'll uh we'll wrap that up by and I'll say uh we'll start with Kurt, then Mark, then Adam. Give me two, three things quick you feel like you see golf three, four years from now. A change that we're not seeing now that we might see three, four, five years from now.

SPEAKER_05 56:49

That's a good question.

SPEAKER_02 56:50

Um I just stumped you, didn't I?

SPEAKER_05 56:53

I'll go first.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

I got three.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Would you like to pass?

SPEAKER_02 56:55

All right, go ahead, Adam. We'll get back.

SPEAKER_00 56:58

My first one is you're gonna see more leisure outfits. You're gonna see these joggers and sweatshirts and leisure wear become more accepted practice. No, no, but it's gonna become more accepted, like private courses and stuff. Uh, I think you're gonna see a giant change to walking versus riding and pushcarts.

SPEAKER_02 57:19

Really?

SPEAKER_00 57:20

I actually think pushcarts are coming back. Okay, I think pushcarts are coming back.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Um I'm not a pushcart fan. I just gotta say it. I think you carry your clubs, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 57:31

I think another the last one's gonna be range rats. I think you're gonna see range rats start to die down here soon. I really do.

SPEAKER_02 57:39

Okay. Um, talking about golf and leisure. Um, I'm not gonna mention any names, but I played with a pro recently who, you know, is a little chilly out and had a stocking cap on, some camo pants, and I was like, this is the most awesome thing I've uh seen in a while. And have a little golf match, and like you know, he's in his camo pants, and I'm like, this is this is pretty sweet. No names mentioned. But uh then Saturday in the best ball I was playing, and it was like 38 degrees when we teed off. And I looked at my uh car, and the only thing I really had heavy was my GLG camo hoodie. So I said, I'm going with it, and wore my GLG camo hoodie the whole time. It actually got some compliments on it, like, oh, I've never seen that on your website. I'm like, yeah, it's kind of special run stuff, but we might have to come out with camo hoodies.

SPEAKER_06 58:38

It's a members only piece, McGee. You want to see you want to keep those.

SPEAKER_02 58:43

Girst, uh, give me two, three things quick.

SPEAKER_04 58:47

Uh yeah, I mean, I think Adam's spot on with the dress code. I think dress codes are on their way out, even on the private level. Um Grass Leagues, that par three tournament under the lights. You guys watch that at all? I mean, there's not a call, not a collard shirt in sight, not uh, not even a golf shoe in sight, honestly. And it's like par three under the lights. I think that's where the game's going. Uh it's really good players and high stakes, but it's entertaining. Um, and it's like it's I mean, it's a couple players from cities all across the country, but I can see that being, I mean, I've lived in a couple of different cities and the the small lit up golf course, pitch and putting, those types of things. I don't know if it's in West Michigan with the seasonal or not, but I see that popping up everywhere. It's just an accessibility, pop stroke, top golf kind of not spot on the nose anymore. But real golf on a smaller scale that can go farther into night, and then no dress codes. Uh, I have to disagree on the range rat thing, but that's just because I'm so sick of scooping range balls every day. We we still have the range bucket in the shop, and uh people are buying range balls, and it's the same people every time, too.

SPEAKER_00 59:59

Uh but I think it's prices are getting raised, baby.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:02

Yeah, I think it is it's more uh people actually trying to get better rather than I think in the past more like quantity. Like, I'm gonna get a jumbo and I'm gonna hit both the wooden barriers on both sides of me, and I'm gonna scare a few people on the range, but I'm gonna get through that whole bucket. Now I do like I see people that I've given lessons, I see people that are in our clinics and like they're going down and they're getting alignment stick down, and um kind of the same type of thing with club equipment. I think people are interested in getting better more than just going out and having a few beers. People are so score-driven and want to hit it farther. So I I see the game just that you either got bit by the bug or you didn't. At this point, if you if you're not continuing to play and trying to get better, you're probably fizzling out. And if you're on the flip side, I hope you learn to play a little bit faster and fix all your pitch marks. But I'll be here still.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Kurt, did you come up with any?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:55

No, I mean, I do think the leisure side of it is, you know, coming along a lot, especially with the people who watch YouTube golf, they like coming out, and but they also are, you know, kind of like your COVID golfers, right? They're just popping in and out. So the leisure side of it is very big, but I feel like that's already here. I mean, when we go and do our clothing orders, right? Hoodies are in. Um, you know, when we're ordering ladies stuff, it's all leggings and shirts. And, you know, you're not really ordering skorts anymore, you're not ordering collar shirts for ladies anymore. Like I feel like that has already came into the marketplace for what when we're looking at stuff. Um, obviously most of the golf shirts for men still have collars, but you know, the hoodies that big step in the direction of going to leisure. Um, all the pants, all the shorts are already in the athletic, you know, athletic fit type things where you have the soft material, they basically feel like basketball shorts. You know, I mean, that's the direction that everyone likes because it's comfy. And um I like the thought of like, you know, more accessibility to the golf course. And I think that that's like what Mark's talking about when he's talking about under the lights, things like that. Um, you're getting so busy to the point where it's like, okay, what else can we do to keep this business going? And those are, you know, those are things that can be done, right? Putt putt courses, just to, you know, utilize the land that you have, anything under the lights that can keep the course open a little bit longer. Um, those are things that could all come into play to generate more revenue. And I definitely think that people would eat those up. Um, the question is, is once you do it, is it going to continue for four or five years, or is it going to be, you know, something that people really like for one or two years and then they're like, eh, I like regular golf better. Um tough to say, but definitely something that'd be worth a go.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Yeah, I've we've talked about this. Our group uh uh at Quail Golf Park have talked about this quite a bit. Um the par three deal, like Mark brought up in Under the Lights. Uh if you had like a seven, it doesn't even have to be nine holes, like pick a number, five, seven, uh par three holes where it was like date night, you just go out, you know, even if you don't have clubs on you, like they have, like, you know, putt-pot, you grab a putter, you could grab they could give you a couple sand wedges and just go play from the 50-yard T marker. Uh families, I think, would go out there with their younger kids that might not be able to ready to go out on a golf course and play a full nine holes. But they could go to something like that and you know, hit wedge shots. And you see the resort courses starting to do it. Like Boyne just built their little par three course, and I was able to play that. I don't know if you did G Money in the state param last year. I did not play it, no. They offered us the opportunity to go play it. I took advantage and went and played it. And I think anything that brings entertainment, like I don't I could be wrong, but I don't view golf as entertainment as a golfer. To me, golf is like a sport I play and I want to get better at and I'm competitive at. But what Mark brought up, that's entertainment. That's like let's take the family out instead of spending, you know, a hundred dollars at a movie theater once you buy the popcorn pop and all that kind of stuff. Let's uh we'll go out and play seven, you know, the part three, little part three course. Or I don't know that I don't what are your thoughts on that, G?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:54

I think I dude, I think it's I think it's there. I think that the opportunity for a short course is and it's gonna be huge, man, for years to come. And like you said, whether it's a place like Boyne, who opened theirs last year, um, Manisty National opened a phenomenal one a few years back, um, just today, getting to play the dozen up at Arcadia Bluffs was an unbelievable experience. And you've got places around the country like the cradle at Pinehurst, another he's gonna be a little biased on the dozen because he did shoot four under on it today.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:30

Um, you know, a little biased though.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:32

Um I wasn't mad about it, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

It was a great I'm upset I was not able to witness that.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:36

It was a great golf course. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Um, but not just from an entertainment value for for families, but I think that a short course is gonna come and it's gonna be important for juniors, for seniors, for even guys like us. Like truthfully, Adam Man, I know you missed it this afternoon, but the the kind of golf shots you're hitting on repeat. Those types of golf courses are so good for our games, whether it's whether it's me, whether it's you, whether it's KV or Mark or McGee, like hitting those shots more frequently is far more impactful. And then as guys look to improve their golf games and get better at scoring, getting good on those types of golf courses is huge. And just the amount of time it takes, man. Like that was my other huge shout out to the dozen today. We played that 12 holes in two hours and 10 minutes. Like, come on, time is of the essence, and not everybody has four and a half hours to go rip 18 holes. Like, if you can do something cool, like get a short course experience in half that time. Nobody wants to play nine either. Uh, the purists nobody wants to play nine, so but they'll play twice at a short course.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:47

I liked uh McGee had an idea the other day splitting your golf course into six, six, six because just to throw people off and do it at twilight. I was like, that would still work on our super dead.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:57

I've talked with these in at Saskatoon multiple times about their three-hole course, which is a four, three, and five. He said people play that on repeat, so I'm not disagreeing. I think the little short courses or three-hole course, six-hole course, yeah, that's something to build on.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:14

Alpine golf club used to do it like immediately out of COVID. They used to have a lunch special. Um they had three different three-hole loops that you could play, and you'd pay like 10 bucks and get a beer and a hot dog and go walk three holes, and you could do it on like the the initiative was to do it on your lunch break. I'm like, that's pretty are they NA beers? Couldn't tell you, man. I never no, that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:39

But I mean, there is a oh go ahead, Mike. I was just gonna say, look at us, all of us, right? Well, we've all played golf together, and if we play 18 holes, what do we do at the end? Let's go play three real quick. Yeah, yeah. Bonus golf.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

And we say we don't do a bonus golf at thorn apple. Bonus golf a thorn apples unallowed.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:58

You guys are stingy then. We're too busy. I I just feel I would love to have the funds and resources to take some of these ideas and make them happen because I think golf like you you said the grass uh um that par three league. Grass league.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:18

Yeah, grass league.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:19

Yeah. I uh have watched a little bit of that on social media. I think it's I think it's unbelievable. Not everybody's cut out to be a PGA tour player, a professional golfer, but there's guys out there that hit it really good and could put a team together and compete in you know, hitting 150 yard shots.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:42

Oh, yeah. I went to it two December's ago. Those guys are, I mean, good. There was a few guys on my Long Beach team there, a couple TJ Latin dudes. But I mean, the golf the course is firm and fast, and it's nighttime. Like that perception is difficult, and they're playing for a decent amount of cheddar. It's fun though. There's music playing and t-shirts and shorts. I think it's a good idea. A big concert after too.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:05

Uh, I have a question real quick before I ask. I was if you guys gave me said we will order X amount, I would totally do a very casual line of you know, not salty golf GLG stuff to put in your shop. But nobody has come to me and said that they want that yet. But if you guys said that, I would do it in a heartbeat. Um, so think about that. I was gonna just ask the the whole TGL thing. Do you think that we see leagues on a bigger scale, not just in a simulator like at Thorn Apple or a sim at Quail Ridge? Um, do you think we will see cities put big um sims in where you're actually hitting off grass? Or do you think that catches on, or do you think that's just a entertainment pro thing that will never catch on on the amateur ranks?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:02

I think from a financial perspective, it won't make sense. I mean, the amount that you have to charge per hour for people to come in there. I I don't know if there's a big enough market of people who are gonna spend that much money to do it. Maybe if you did it in the big cities, you know, New York, Chicago, LA.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:20

Yeah, if the teams really take off and they all want home stadiums, maybe, but that one's that one's like the one in Florida where they all live already, like where their residences are. So to go fly to Boston to go compete when they only have five, six days off seems crazy. So they'll probably and didn't that place like blow up when it got built for the first time or crashed. Well, was it actually the hurricane, or did it just fall over? Because I thought it fell over.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

Hurricane blew the roof off it when they were built.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:51

Well, that makes me feel better about it. It wasn't structural damage.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

All right, gee, we would we're we're uh uh getting close to the time thing. You know, we would go to the clubhouse. Gurst says we're not supposed to talk about golf things in the clubhouse section because golf is over.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:08

I think this was Adam, my guy. Don't don't put this one on Gurst. I'm pretty sure this is an AM. What's a clubhouse section?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:15

Was that you, Adam? I thought it was that was me.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:18

Oh, that was Adam. I listened to every single one on my drive up to Arcadia this weekend, and every single time I was like, they ask one question and they pivot right back to golf. And I was like, man, so much. That was quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Oh, I mean, what are we gonna talk about? Like uh Rico Suave's like personal life or something, like we can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:39

I prefer not to talk about that, right? I don't want to be I don't want to be envious.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:47

We all live vicariously through Kirk. Uh so Garrett, do you have anything for these guys? Anything uh draw up here?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:56

Yeah, I'm gonna circle back to what I said I was gonna circle back to earlier, and I'm gonna make a proposition for this east side public club, not rivalry, but kind of potential rivalry opportunity. But Adam, you might be old enough for this, but do you all recall the Tavistock Cup? Yes, yes, I like where you're going, Garrett. The the the annual Lake Nona versus Isleworth, yes, yes, team event.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:27

I mean, tiger played in it for his for Isleworth. Remember that?

SPEAKER_06 1:12:31

Yep, you got it. I'm I'm I would love to see something spin up here on the east side of Grand Rapids amongst Quail Ridge and Thornapple Point on an annual basis, team format.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

Yes, let's see.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:48

We'll sponsor it. Well, should we do it rider cup style? Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:53

Are we giving are we giving strokes in this thing? Yeah, is it handicap? No, okay. So if it's not handicapped, then we got to recruit a little bit.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:01

No, they have to be they have to play your home club, they have to play apple, they have to play quail, they have to be. I mean, obviously it's public, so it doesn't have to be formal members, of course, but can we pick anyone that played in the outing?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:13

No, anybody call them let's call them regulars, let's call them regulars.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:18

Just go look at go up to his handicaps and sort by backwards.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:22

Mark Waldo played it back in the day, he'll probably be I think there's a really cool like we could spin up a really cool initiative here, and we could even make it you could formalize a qualifying process too, if you want. If you want to like however you want to, however, you want to build a team.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:37

You pick captains and you have to you pick your team. So I just need a yes or no question from you, Mark, and a yes or no from Kurt and Adam. If Garrett and I brainstormed, and Garrett was like, Yeah, Taylor Maid will do some sort of tea gift, and Great Lakes Skier sponsored it, you know, for as far as like a luncheon afterwards or whatever, you know, whatever. If we came to you guys within the next two, three weeks and said we want to do the first annual, we'll come up with a name, cup, and it's quail versus thorn apple. It's hard to get guys for to commit for three days, so two-day event, and just just like the rider cup, best ball session, alternate shot shot session, and then uh the last day would be a single session.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:34

When's it being played?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:36

Huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:37

When's it being played? I mean, uh I'm not sure in November right the peak season.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:44

I said September.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:44

Uh no, I heard November.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

November.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:50

No, I'm not playing. We're too busy in September, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:53

Conditions, but it's only it's only like four tea times. If you have eight guys or five tea times, ten guys per team. Yeah, it's five tea times.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:02

I'm just gonna have the back injury every round, so my my round is at least half a point every time. Oh my gosh. I nobody's yes or no. Would you would you do it? Absolutely, it sounds fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:14

Quail ain't scared.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

Thornapple's not scared either. I promise you that. Uh, it's more just the logistic time frame and everything else.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:22

I mean, we could even get creative. This could be like you guys already hold three tea times every Sunday afternoon, anyways. I only have to block two more. It's pretty easy, pretty easy on my front to do Sunday afternoons. He's hooligans take away.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:34

So Adam Earth will agree to hold it at Quail for the first year, this year. Next year, Thorn Apple holds it, and then alternates. Why don't we do then we will allow that?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:48

We've we've done this match in the past. That's all I'm gonna say. I I know we have because I've played in it. Uh it's tough because uh you're saying it's not handicapped. That's all I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:02

No, there's too many sandbaggers out there.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:04

The only handicapped could be T-Box, right? Oh that's reasonable. No putts, yeah. Given button.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:13

Would you invite the mines to be a part of it and put a team together if we want if it grew? We can't even find two golf courses. How are we gonna find three to play Mg?

SPEAKER_06 1:16:25

Did you not hear the state of golf in West Michigan? It's busy, very busy.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:33

Literally, we're doing dynamic pricing, but we definitely could do, I mean, during the week or something, but it's just the out the leagues and everything get tough, and trying to get that many people who could play. But yeah, this is September, so right.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

Yeah, you have Kurt and Adam. That's two. You'd have to get eight more guys. We have me, Garrett, Gerst. We have to get seven more guys. It'll it'll be easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:55

I've got two guys who are my guys that would do it for sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:58

Okay, well, September would actually we could do like Sunday, Monday. Well, you guys are probably Monday now for outings, but even all I know is I want Rico Suave a manoe.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:09

So the better question is is Garrett on team quail or team thornout? Quail.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:17

Garrett's on team quail. I mean, the screen's got a depends on the Sims.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:22

I feel like he could be at Thornout.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:23

That's just yeah, I feel like he was at Live Ball. They got you there, Garrett. That is a good point. You can be on your team for the winter one. I'm pretty thorn apple winter guy.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:36

Pretty flattered that the two of you want to fight over me. But my membership lies at Quail and my my handicapped club, my home club in my game is established through Quail.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:48

So Aries is established at Thorn Apple. Can we get him?

SPEAKER_06 1:17:51

Yeah, yes, you can go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:54

He just has to he has to play one foot in the back rough. That's his team.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:59

And half of his clubs have to be left-handed.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:02

You can have mine, that's fine. It'll probably actually help me.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:05

Perfect tree.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:06

All right, we're doing it. Garrett, we're gonna brainstorm and take it, put it down on paper and take it to these guys.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:12

And we'll we'll present the other. Yeah, present. I'm I'm I'm thinking we could spend up a really cool you said competitive rivalry, and it can be unique too. It doesn't have to be your 10v10, 18 holes on one day, 18 holes on another day. Let's make it like a twilight nine. Let's make it a twilight nine shotgun start, modified alt shot, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:30

Yeah, I don't do yoga, so I don't know if I can do 27 in a day.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:35

Man, I'll be there at six tomorrow. I'll see you there.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:40

I gotta get my shameless plug-in real quick, guys. If you hit 18 greens, you don't have to chip.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:46

You know, you can still putt it from off a green.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:49

Oh, I do many a time.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:52

You don't sell yourself short. We watched you get up and down from many a place last Friday.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:57

I did chip so much. Kurt would have been totally fixed. Kurt would have been excited for me. All right, anything else, G before we wrap this up? Have we even gotten to the clubhouse yet? Well, I think we yeah, we're well past it. In our time limit, we're like way over.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:18

Are you worried about the duration that listeners will tune into this episode?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:22

Yeah, well, oh my gosh, this is like the movie that just don't stop.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:27

Those that those that know all of us will definitely listen to this. I promise you.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:34

It only gets better as it goes, man. Um, yes, we you dude, you gotta ask, you gotta do the round table real quick. At least favorite club in the bag. Adam Alcamo, go.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:43

I want to talk. Let's talk equipment quick because I want to know what they're playing.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:47

Okay, you want a full bag?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:48

I bet you I could guess what everybody's playing. Kurt Valley's got the TW blades. Adam, I'm looking at the P. He's playing what I'm playing. What are they? The MBs, right, Garrett? MCs, C Bs?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:02

I I have a combo set. I have a P7 MBs pitching wedge through seven iron, and then my six, five, and four are the C Bs.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:10

Yeah, okay. Kurt got the uh MBs MBs, yeah. So I was close.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:19

Oh, I got a four iron P770. Things rocket. Seven wood, dude. I got a four I got that. I got that too. I go five, seven with four iron.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:32

So much fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:32

Are you all gaming the new Taylor made driver?

SPEAKER_04 1:20:35

Yes, yeah. Core model.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

Low spin, ls.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:44

The regular X or LS? Regular. Regular.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:48

He's got it set to beast mode too.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:51

What what uh ball are you guys playing? The TPX or the TP?

SPEAKER_00 1:20:56

Uh TP5. I'm TP5X. Okay. I swing like too much of a hockey player, man. I gotta get my spin numbers down.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:06

Now you can answer Garrett's question.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:08

Dude, you should real quick though, speaking of Adam and his TP5X and his LS driver, I gotta tell you, he hit the nastiest T ball on four at Arcadia Bluffs yesterday. And to put some context here, like I Adam, how many times over the last day and a half did I say the new aerodynamics of this golf ball in absurd wind speeds is ridiculous. This golf ball is so good in high winds, no having played in high winds for four straight days. Not that I play golf for four straight days. Should my boss tune into this because I don't do that? However, Adam, back to you on four man. He hit a drive that with his hockey player swing. That thing was no more than six feet off the ground. And this thing was nasty, and 290 yards into the fan. It was the sickest shot I've probably seen anybody hit off a T-box in quite some time. I dinger machine.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:04

I saw the Roars prototypes are for coming out for sale.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:09

They are yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:11

Certain demographics can get that, others uh that are you know let me put this um not right-handed, can't get that.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:21

Um, the the Roars protos are out. Um, they are pre-orderable right now, McGee. And for any other listeners that are curious to get the Roars Proto in their bag. Cool thing this time, last year we did a really cool what I thought was cool for at least Rory's grand slam win. We put a couple of um markings down the hazle of the golf club. There was we put dots, one to kind of commemorate each of his major championships. Nice, and this iteration, we are just building them identical to Rory, so there's gonna be no major uniqueness to them, but it is just exactly what he's got in his bag cosmetically, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:59

Okay, so they're all gonna be one degree upright. Because I heard no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:05

You can still build these to your custom specs just from a cosmetics perspective. They're they're exactly what he's got in the bag, which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:12

Yeah, my if don't you all agree Garrett should get a set community set for us all to kind of check out?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:21

He's already got a it's not a community set. I'm I'm the minority here, like I'm left-handed, it's not fair.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:27

Yeah, I have a set, it's right here in this bag next to me. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:31

He brings clubs in all the time because he switches his golf bag every two weeks, and I'm just like, oh, that looks nice.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:37

I wish I could get it. Yeah, oh favorite club in the bag. Come on, we gotta before before I let McGee wrap this up and before I gotta go to yoga in 20 minutes. Favorite club in the bag, eh damn?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:54

Uh, my favorite club in the bag is definitely my lab df3. You are a dog. Are you kidding me right now? You watched me putt all week. You know that lights out.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:11

That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:13

Kurt.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:15

Read the room, man.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:20

Yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:22

Kurt's favorite club, the broomstick.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:28

Yeah, mine's probably my ZT broomstick for sure.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:33

My putty. Zero torque. Good old zero torque.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:38

I don't I think mine's my uh 63 degree MG5. That thing's nasty. I love that thing around the greens. There's a rip everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:48

Mine right now it's my high toe wedge. My 60 degree high toe.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:52

It's for 53 or like it more.

SPEAKER_06 1:24:54

I don't know, man. Or order it 63. KV bent it. He had that in the loft and live machine at Club champion a bit ago. Yeah, I bent it.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:05

All right, I'll check it out.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:06

How much bounces on that thing?

SPEAKER_05 1:25:08

Not at all. I do the I do the eight, so it only gets to 11.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:12

Okay, it's not that bad. No, it's kind of nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:17

There's a reason, Lori to see.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:19

So tomorrow. I was just there, actually.

SPEAKER_06 1:25:23

That's why I was late to the pod.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:25

What's your favorite club in your big, Garrett?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:28

My favorite club. Um I feel you all just led with a bunch of short game stuff. It's not my lab putter because I don't own one of those, Adam. Um, it's the driver, man. It's the big dog. I love this driver. This thing is it's so stinking good, and it's it didn't used to be my favorite club in the bag, but over the last couple years it's become my favorite club in the bag.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:50

What clubs are in that bag right now over your shoulder, right there?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:55

Yeah. That that's all the sample product from last fall. It's just sample QI4D drivers, fairways, and hybrids.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:05

I'll be coming over to your house sometime soon.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:08

You gotta look at the golf bag though, McGee. That thing's the real deal. It's not the clubs, it's the bag itself.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:13

Oh, can you see the bag?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:15

No, I can see it.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:17

Yeah, it's it's the uh signature series, the one that Adam picked up this offseason. It's the real deal. It is it is a sweet bag, I will say. No doubt.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:29

Well, how many do you have on staff at Thorn Apple? Just Adam and Kurt.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:35

I'm technically not on staff.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:36

Yeah, Adam is an unofficial brand ambassador, Kurt Valley is uh formal Hooley contracted staff professional, and then Matt Smith is on our ball glove ambassador program.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:49

Nice. Yep, I'm on staff through association.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:53

I'm still working on that. I'm still working on that status.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:59

When you lose as much money as you have to Garrett this winter, it's kind of like a hey Garrett, I don't have to pay you because I'm just gonna keep buying stuff from you.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:10

All right, all right, fools. I'm wrapping this up. So I appreciate y'all being on. We'll be doing this, we'll be doing this again uh every so often, just talk about golf and the state of golf and uh things coming up. And um so I appreciate being a part of it today. And um yeah, so for our listeners, get out to Quail Ridge, you'll see us, run into us, get out to Thornapple Point, um, you might run into us there as well. Just two great, amazing golf courses. And the I'll say this the thing we joke about you know, quail and and and the things, our group out there, but what makes those golf courses so great are the people. And as you can tell by this podcast, when you have somebody like Mark Gerst there Uh running a day-to-day at Quail and you run into him, he's just gonna be super nice to you and joke around with you just like he is on the podcast. And the same for Thornapple Point. You're probably not gonna run into Kurt uh if he's in the back office doing all the food and bed stuff. But you know, you run out to uh uh Thornapple and run into Adam or any of the guys out there, they're just good guys, and I think that's a big deal because sometimes when you're newer to golf, it can be intimidating uh when you don't know exactly what you're doing. And you guys have always been so welcoming and to just great to people in general, and I think that's why you guys are so successful at your clubs, and I think that's why your golf clubs are successful, and uh so kudos, kudos to you for all that. And I don't know if Garrett, you want to wrap it up with some comments or thoughts yourself.

SPEAKER_06 1:28:56

No, McGee, you wrapped it up very eloquently. Great round table, guys. Obviously, this this group kind of coming together and sharing thoughts, and you guys all have great perspective around the game and loved having you on here. Many many more to come.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:09

Yep, appreciate it, guys. All right, appreciate you guys.