Cue & A - Episode 3 -Templates, 'Go To' Orchestral Libraries, & old favorites.

In this episode Cris & Kevin chat about Templates,  'go to' orchestral libraries and some of their past favorites from early on in their careers.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Alright, now we're good to go. Alrighty. Wow, cheers to episode three. All my ice melted. Cheers to episode three. Episode three. I noticed the last time episode. We cheersed. And you didn't drink right after the cheers. That's a big no-no. I was probably mad at you. About your haircut. I thought we settled that.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Yeah, no, we did. Let's let's just the past is in the past, Kevin.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yes. Everything. Move forward. Keep on moving. I got a good compliment on the podcast today. Our chemistry is good. It's a highlight of people watching. So we hear. And the topics are good and very educational at the same time. I don't know who we're educating, but it's something. Right? It's something, you know? It's gonna catch on and then uh Yeah. I mean, people just need to share it. Oh, a big thing that will help is liking and subscribing to the podcast. Even if you don't even feel like watching the whole thing. If you click like and subscribe, that will help us out immensely. Um yeah, I think that uh will help us push us up in this after when people search for stuff. I think I really don't know how it works. This is all by the seat of our pants. Is that the saying? Something like that.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Anyway, so today we have a few topics. Um I'll let you choose which topic you would like to maybe start with first. We have it was an interesting question from somebody. What is your favorite uh BST plug-in instrument from the past? Like nostalgic instrument that you use. We don't have to answer it right now.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

That's one topic. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Um, like that you used and loved 10 years ago. Um another topic is uh shit, I forgot the I need to write it down.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Oh, it's from Craig, right? About Well, that's a third one.

SPEAKER_01 2:27

Okay, you can say that one. Uh I I don't remember it. Oh, it was basically how our templates work for video games. This is geared towards you mostly. I mean, I've I haven't done much live recording for video games, but how our templates work in video games, video game writing, and then going to orchestra and having all that be loopable.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Oh, that was oh, okay. So um there's a shout out to Craig Peters for the question. Thanks, Craig. An amazing guitarist. He plays guitar on me for yeah, lots of stuff for the stuff. He plays guitar on you. For me. You said on me. Oh yeah. We haven't we haven't uh no, we're not we haven't done that yet. Yeah. Uh but Craig plays amazing guitar for me on things like Borderlands and The Long Dark. So he's a versatile different styles. He even did some. I did a a short film and he played some like Django style gypsy jazz for me. Good to know. Yeah, super good.

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Craig is going in my Rolodex. Um the other topic was current favorite orchestral libraries that is a mainstay in your template.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Okay. The two library ones are kind of similar, so we could do that.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Okay. Okay. Sorry about that. We had a camera failure. Failure? Failure. Um I'm not sure that we got so I think we were talking about the the No, we were we went into the the libraries?

SPEAKER_02 4:08

The libraries, the old school one first, and then did we get cut off on the whole part where you talked about yours?

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Oh, yeah, I don't think even think I posed the third question.

unknown 4:17

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Which was current favorite orchestral libraries for if I said that already, I forget where I'm having to edit this, but anyway. So, best or favorite nostalgic instrument we used way back when. Mine would have to be Percussive Adventures. I abused that one, as did every other composer. Except for me. Except for Chris. You didn't have it? You never bought it? No. Really? Good for you.

SPEAKER_02 4:49

Nope, didn't buy it. Uh, but I'm very familiar with the sounds. Like we said, even today, however many years after it came out, I still hear it weekly option top chef.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Um and any other shows that involve cooking. I know I've heard it in Chopped. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Yeah. Okay. But yeah, it's probably shows that have been around for so many seasons. And then they're like, update. Yeah. Like, or they've just like, oh, we always use this one for any time someone cracks an egg.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

What's the there's I mean, try to not go off topic here. There's a sound in Survivor. I don't watch it. Tracy watches it. So when I'm in another room, I always hear this sound, and it's just like that. I don't know if it's from the original composer of Survivor or it's just I don't watch it.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

It is just that's all just library cues, right? But I mean they're. Okay, so what was what was one of yours? Um I just remember that I would get a library, and if it had something uh that I thought was cool, for example, a French horn rip.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Suddenly my music had ripped all up and down. You're not the only one who did that. Not me, but and then um same thing with uh with Woodwind runs. Oh, those were hard, yeah. Because back then it's so hard to play that in.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

So I still use it sound like a woodwind run back then.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

Like it just sounded so those like pre-recorded runs, I still use those. And um which kind of sucks for your orchestrator if it's going live because they just see a I mean they they get the idea what you want, and they'll probably do it right. I know, but it's it it's a lot of notes to write in. Yeah, that's true. Um, but yeah, I so I would use French horn rips and woodwind runs all over the place when I got a library that had those.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

I think I think um like other than percussion, I think my favorite was Project Sam's first brass library. Oh Kestral Brash. That was the first brass library that contained that I remember containing the the brassiness of it, like the the the the buzz of the brass. Yeah. And I think that I mean that's why I fell in love with it because Noah Libraries at the time, to my knowledge, really contained that movie-esque, you know, cinematic brass sound, which is you know very tiresome on the players.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

I I did use Symphobia a lot.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Oh, Symphobia is still in my template. Oh to thicken out when when I know it's gonna well when I know the project's all in the box, it definitely fills out sections. Um but I I try to avoid it trying to use, you know, sections.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

It still mixes in, it sits great with everything.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

Yeah, it's really, really nice stuff. Yeah, Symphobia 1 and Symphobia 2. But the one thing I used to overuse in Symphobia in when I was doing uh the animated animated series was the you had a orchestral, it might have been a whole whole uh ensemble, but the low end had the piano strikes with it too. Oh, yeah, yeah. So anytime I did low hits on the end, I would that Symphobia patch would. It's all over uh some of the animated series I did.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

But hey, yeah, you use what it works, yeah. And those low, like staccato piano notes, um they're hard to get sounding good unless you have a library like that. Like even today, I was working on something, uh it's a big action thing, and it's you know, orchestra, and but I was like, oh, I I kind of want to punctuate with the piano. And I've been using now uh the James Newton Howard piano, which he never used ever for any of his scores. Is that true? I don't I don't know. Anyways, I what are you talking about? I think it sounds great, but I was trying to, but I had you know they sound okay mixed in everything, but I was trying to do the real staccata stuff, and it's it just doesn't have that punch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Well, I know in the Symphobia one, they they doubled it with uh I mean uh obviously the low strings and everything since it was an ensemble patch, but there was timpani in there too, hitting at the same time. But yeah, it's if it's not recorded like that, it's hard to duplicate it with sip separate samples, I noticed, but yeah. Um any other old ones? I mean, I go, I mean, my strings from way back when was sonic implants, they don't even exist anymore. The company, yeah. And the mod wheel was the up and down bow. So you had to draw you anytime you had fast taccado lines, you had to draw in a uh square for the in the rhythm uh and it sounded good, but it was just a pain to get through. Like they didn't record it in round robin opposite bows, yeah. It was the mod wheel. Whoa, but hey man, that is all over Unreal Tournament 2.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

No, if you didn't do it, it would if it was just like all down. Yeah, the sound machine gun.

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Yeah, but that's all over Unreal Tournament 2003 and 2004. Whenever I used Takato strings and fast runs, Sonic Implants. Yeah, I forgot. I don't know if Sonic Implants was the company or yeah, I think that was the company. Man, that the it was sold in this big old LP size box with all these DVDs.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

Yeah, everybody used to have the the cool boxes. Yeah. Um I had for a long time I kept them too, because it was almost well, I had like all the East West stuff. Oh, those big boxes. Those giant boxes, and then I had them like somewhere in my studio. Yeah, just like it's so funny, like websites back then and uh and resumes and stuff, they'd be you would like list the sample libraries you have.

SPEAKER_01 10:51

I never did that though, but I've seen people do that. It's like don't give away the secret. That's the secret sauce. Speaking of secret sauce, oh man, I'm gonna way back, man, way before I moved to LA and I was just starting like barely starting out, maybe even before actually getting my first paid pay gig. I bothered this composer out here. I mean, I I guess I doesn't hurt to mention his name, but Bill Brown. Oh I remember emailing him early, early on about his French horn sound and how he got it to sit so nicely in the mix. His game scores were so good. He he I don't know what he did, but he had the right elements going for his brass sound. And at the time he was the only one that was doing it. And I knew it wasn't live, you know, it was sampled. I remember emailing him and I'm like, please tell me what you're doing. I'm like, I know I'm I'm like asking for your grandma's secret recipe for pasta sauce, and then you won't tell me, but can you? I don't remember what he replied with, but he definitely didn't tell me how he was doing it. And I he I tried to emulate his stuff, his sound for the longest time. And then freaking Project Sam Orchestral Breast came out. I'm like, well, there it is. And I know he wasn't using, I don't know what he had like a beta version. No, this was years before it came out. Project Sam Orchestral Breast came out. Um, but yeah, um I bothered him a lot, and I bothered Jeff Rona a lot. Oh, see, I'm friends with Jeff. I know you are, and he just followed me on Instagram, probably for me to follow him and buy stuff. No, I'm just kidding, Jeff. Um no, I bothered him because he put out that book, Real to Real, uh-huh, which I read front to back like three times. And I remember emailing him a bunch about SIMT and getting my VCR synced up to my my PC. And I'm like, is Simpty even really needed anymore? I mean, like, now that things because at the time it was the beginning of capturing video and having it play back as a movie file in your in your sequence, and so I was asking him, is it is it even necessary anymore to have you know SIMT timecode? And he explained to me the obvious purpose of it, but syncing to it wasn't much needed anymore, which was awesome because I don't even think I figured it out back then how to sync my VCR up to my audio devices with B and C cable. Yeah, with a with and you had to get one with the best shuttle wheel.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

I remember that. Oh, I'm sure I got whatever was absolute cheapest. And it never worked. Uh yeah, it never I I do remember, oh my god, I would watch um so I would rewind the movie, and then at a certain moment, I would hit play or record on my sequencer, and then I would just watch in real time. Right. And then I wouldn't try to down ideas. I wouldn't come uh not so much that, but I would I would try to hit just hit points if I knew like something has to come in there, and then I would do that, and then be like, okay, from here to here, I can fill it in.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

And then you would write without picture.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:14

Yeah, yep. I remember that. And that wasn't for any project, that was me just learning the trade. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

No, I actually did that for projects. Oh, really? I never had a project that was um VCR tape. Yeah, those were that wasn't for games, but for like movies.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Uh and then when I I moved to this place in North Hollywood, and I was scoring my friend's feature, and I didn't have a a TV or anything on my desk, and my desk like faced a wall, like like my studio was my desk next to the kitchen.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Right.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

And so I was facing the wall, but then the TV was behind me. Oh my god. Like off to the side. Did you set up a mirror? No, I would just, I'm sure this is the problem of the uh the genesis of my like neck and shoulder problems, because I would be like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Oh my god, are you serious?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

And then I'm like, okay, here's and I think as I somebody's like, I'm just like noodling on the piano, like noodle, noodle, noodle, noodle, and we're out right there.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Right. That's hilarious. Dude, that was that was one of the first things I bought. Well, not one of the first things I bought, uh, one of the things I bought before scoring to pitch was a nice little 13-inch Sony TV that sat on my desk for quite a long time, even when I moved out here. The thing is, I I have to preface that with like I was able to buy the equipment, not all the equipment, like not the best equipment, but I was I had an income because I was I also had a like a full-time job of which is this feels like a lifetime ago or another life was I was an FAA certified certified aircraft brake and wheel mechanic. I forgot that. I went to to uh I I worked there. I got the job through a temp agency because I I was was I working there when I was in the band? I forget. Um but I got the job through the temp agency. I worked my way up, and then I had to go to get you know more raises and better positions at the company, I had to go to uh was it in that I think Nashville for FAA official training and get a certificate for inspecting airline wheels and brakes. Nice. Did you take your job very seriously? I always did. Yeah, God, I I hope so. I I hope those people all take their job so seriously. If nothing's gonna happen if a wheel, I mean you would you would go you wouldn't believe the amount of destroyed wheels we would get in the facility from planes that just blew out a tire and and uh and was riding on the rims. I mean, if if we get a damaged wheel and that's the only thing that happened on the plane, I mean your flight's over already.

SPEAKER_02 17:08

It's like there's no harm in how often do planes have to change their their wheels, do you think? Is it like you know, like when you're watching that like movie F1 and Right, right, right? Yeah, it's like the tires are shot.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

What's really strange is that's one question I never asked. You know, like maybe I would have asked that if we weren't getting wheels and brakes in the bay, you know, it in the delivered to us. We're like, well, why aren't they changing, you know, why aren't they changing these?

SPEAKER_02 17:39

All right. Well, anyways, I hope this answered your question about our old favorite samples. Oh, come on, you gotta admit that's interesting. Okay, so to get back on track. Okay, what the other Although that is a fun story. Um what what is your new favorite VST? Well Tell me what's in your can we just talk about templates? Like what's the case?

SPEAKER_01 18:05

Well, the question was orchestral. What do we what do we my mainstay that is always the first thing I go to is Cinematic Studio Strings, Cinematic Studio Brass, Cinematic Studio Woodlands. That always doesn't end up being what's in the final mix if I'm doing mock-ups. Like what? You use that just to write with and then you change it for No, it's I I I Because they react completely differently to Well, I have th like three libraries in for each section loaded in my template. Do you I have spitfits? Do you play them all at the same time?

SPEAKER_02 18:44

No, I mean are you like stacking strings? No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

I'll like some and also some libraries have their strengths and some don't, depending on what type of piece I'm writing. Yeah. Um but like for strings, for example, I have the cinematic studio strings, I'll have Spitfire symphonic strings, and then I'll have Nashville scoring strings. And they all have their like mostly like I'll use Nashville scoring strings to double the low end every single time. And then I'll also double it to I'll use it to double melodic lines. Um but I'll flesh out ideas and orchestrate the ideas with one library, and then I'll if I'm like okay, this section needs a little beef, so I'll double it, I'll copy paste.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Um and then not I just find copy pasting doesn't work that that great because the libraries react so differently.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Well, uh you have it set up beforehand, you have the delay compensation set up on the tracks beforehand. Okay. That's why they're always in the template. Because, okay, this library needs whatever, negative 40. This library needs negative 120.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Okay, yeah, I'm not just talking about that though, but I mean just the way they react to like velocity or mod wheel or oh, I'm not saying I just copy paste and leave it.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

I go in and and and adjust what needs to be adjusted for it to sit nicely. That's a lot of work. Not really. I mean, it's just real quick stuff. I mean, copy paste, piano roll, and you're done.

unknown 20:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

Bob's your uncle. And I do that for for hardly ever brass. I mean, because Brad, all like sometimes if I'm I'm writing in like writing a brass section that already has strings and other synth elements, and the brass isn't really poking through as much as I want it to, like one library. I'll try a totally different library to see if it can poke through more. And that library is usually junky's brass library.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

Oh, you know, it's so funny. I because I bought that when it first came out, and I hated it. I absolutely at first I was like, this does not sound like an orchestra because it was just so everything is four four easy easy easy mode. Oh, I know. And then you've got like you know, 12 trombones, like who that's the one. Nobody needs that. Yeah, that I've never in my life had more than four trombones, I think.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Uh but now I use it all the time.

SPEAKER_01 21:22

Yeah. It helps punch through everything.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I just feel like everything, or at least the stuff I'd been doing recently, was like, has to be big, has to be big, has to be big. And if I went back to my old brass libraries, they were just they sounded so weak.

SPEAKER_01 21:34

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's it's tough. It also like also it depends on how the piece starts, what you start writing the piece with. Like if it's a brass line, you can contour the the volume and the gain of everything else. I mean, honestly, when you're writing or you're writing something that's mostly orchestral, you should just set it and forget it and write to the levels that they should. Be you know, because that's if you're gonna if it's eventually gonna go to live, that's how it's gonna be live. Like I mean, you can you can track the stuff and then have control over volume and do what you will.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah, but I like um I guess, but I also like having things sometimes stick out in my mix that are that I really want to hear so that the orchestrator knows that Oh, that's true too, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

So like maybe make sure that it's sticking out. But I mean, I don't do it the way I just said, I just do it. I mean, when I start a piece by the end of the piece, like I have so much headroom at the start of the piece, no matter how loud it is, but by the time I get to the end of the piece, everything is redlining. I know. I don't know why that doesn't do my ears get fatigued that I that I need more volume by the end of it. It happens on every piece over two minutes. It's annoying. And I have to go back and re-adjust all the gain staging and everything for every track. Um, and it ends up working, but it's just I don't know why I need to get louder by the end of the piece. Am I going deaf as the piece goes longer?

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Like, am I using maybe you're losing inspiration and you're like, if it's not interesting, at least it's loud.

SPEAKER_00 23:15

You might be right, dude. I want to feel it.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Like, yeah, I I I have tried so many times trying to write at a lower volume, and I always end up raising the not so much raising the volume of each track, but raising the master. It's just I need I need to hear, I need to feel it, yeah, which is not good for the ears.

SPEAKER_02 23:40

Well, but I think the thing I was working on today, um, I specifically wanted to avoid this whole thing because it doesn't need to be crazy epic. Um, so I went back to uh for brass using like the solo um Berlin brass, like the French horns. Oh, the different sections they have, like the well they've got you know solo one, two, three, four, maybe and so I'm just using those to to do the whole horn line, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Like all of them doing the same as they would, right?

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yeah, or or then split it out into chords or whatever, and it sounded really nice.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Yeah, yeah. If you do it properly, yeah, I'm sure it would sound and those are designed to do that, yeah. But was it just like a strictly orchestral only piece?

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Like, were you able to it's not gonna be, it's it's gonna have it's got some like synth and percussion and some some of that stuff, but um I don't know, it just doesn't for this particular cue, it doesn't need to be that overhyped, overproduced, yeah, so in your face. Like um, it's an it's an action cue too, but it just I don't know. It like I like the way it breathes. And did you try it?

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Did you try out the music sampling brass yet? Music sampling brass? Musical sampling. I don't know. Musical samples. Musical sampling? I don't know. I think it's called classic brass. I told you when last time I was over your house. It's they have these the French horn trumpets and uh uh bones and tuba and they sound amazing, but they're not split out. It's like I forget how many horns it is. Might be three. There's four trombones. No, I think there's only I don't know. I don't I forget what's in it, but they sound so good, and you you you cut you double the base bones with the tuba, and I think that's replacing my low brass from cine samples, which has been a constant in my template forever.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

Yeah, I um it might just be me, but like I I used to use cinnasamples all the time for everyone. I still use their um that's my my go-to timpani is still Cina samples. Really? Um I just like how I know a lot of people use it. Yes, um, I've tried other stuff that maybe sounds a little more tight and true to like a timpani, but it just I don't I don't like the way it feels in the mix.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

My big problem with timpani, not to cut you off. I don't know if I did. You did, but oh sorry, is how it sits in the depth of depth of the orchestra. Um, I know you can add EQ and stuff to to do it, but none of them have the like the frequencies are all over the place, and the the one I mean, I know I can EQ it and everything, which I should, and I spend time doing that, but the one that fills my need right now is the BBC timpany, which is has little low end and just you know punches through. Oh, I'll give that a listen because I do have it.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

It's amazing how many libraries we have. I know, and so okay, man, so kind of off topic again. But let's start. I just want I also want to know what's in your template and start it with Woodwinds. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

I told you all like to know what's in mind, choir. Oh, choir's uh uh all right. Let me I'll get the choir. Okay, so how do you in your template is your orchestra above or below synth stuff? Um This is just a preference thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:39

My template, which I don't I'm not using anymore. I have to have a new one built, but I it was below. Orchestra was always the bottom stuff for me.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Oh, orchestra was the bottom. Yeah, that's how mine is too. Um so I'll have and my percussion is at the very top. Oh no, my well, my orchestral percussion is in between with the orchestra, but any other percussion is at the top.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Anything that's not like Tempany or Gong or snare. That is orchestral, right? Uh piati or whatever. Yeah. Is it at the top? No, it's mixed in with orchestra.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

No, no, no. Everything else that's not that. Like like any of the heavy city stuff, it's on top. Okay. So I have perk, perk rhythm. Um, then I have all the different synth elements. Synth high, synth long high, synth long low, synth melody high, synth melody low, synth.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Say synth long, say synth, synth long low five times as fast as you can.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

You couldn't even sing it once.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Um, so yeah, each of this like synth, ARP, high, synth, arp, low, synth rhythm high, synth, or synth pulse, high, synth pulse, and so forth.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Um dude, I really want to get to that because I I am, I do want to talk about it, but just get to the orchestral stuff. Yeah, just like okay Woodwinds.

SPEAKER_01 29:03

So, oh wait, but but you can hear Winwinds and I'll do my guitar, then there's kits, and then okay. So Woodwinds is um is your cinematic studio Woodwinds? Wrong. Wrong? Too bad. Um then there's I have some um Berlin. I still like, and it I use the Berlin Woodwinds that isn't even sign. I used the contact version of Berlin Woodwinds. Um it's just because it's in my template. Um what other Woodwinds do I use? Um musical sampling for solo Woodwinds. They have a flute, clarinet, and I forget what else they have. Um yeah, if Woodwinds, I'm not too picky about. I I I'm pretty happy with the Cinematic Studio Woodwinds and the other. I don't have an ensemble Woodwind patch.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Um I sometimes use ensemble if I'm just going fast and I just kind of wanted them in there, but I know that it's gonna get fleshed out in orchestration.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Yeah. Um okay, so Woodwind and Brass. So brass I have I'll tell you my woodwinds. Oh, we're gonna go back and forth with sections? Let's just do it back and forth. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

It keeps it relevant. Uh so I mostly only use Berlin for Woodwinds. Okay. And I do solos of each, you know, solo one, like flute one, two, oboe, one two. Right. I'll do oboe one, two, English horn. I do piccolo, flute, flute, that would that'd be on top, and then the oboe is English Horn. Right, right. And then two.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Do you always do you always have is it always two of each?

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yep. Okay. Two clarinets and a bass clarinet, two bassoons and a contra.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Now, before we go on, let me ask you a question. But the two flutes and two, does Berlin, I forget, do they have uh two different solos? Uh huh. They do, okay. And each for each each oboe and clarinet, they do. Yeah. Okay. I was a I thought that answers my question.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Uh and then I use um Senna samples for woodwind runs. The woo was Hollywood winds? Hollywood Hollywood winds. I don't I haven't found another one that does that same stuff. No.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Is there? I program my runs in now with woodwinds. I just copy paste from the strings. We have to earn the strings around. And it's usually, how do you say septuplets I'm using most of the time? Okay. Anyway, so uh I say brass now. All right. Brass, I have in my template I have brass ensemble, set of tracks for brass ensemble, then I have horns, trumpet, trombone, bass trombone, tuba.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

So in the order of score order. I know, but you know what? I hate having trumpets below horns. It really throws me off. Score order, dude. It really throws me off. Why? So I always do trumpets on top? Horns. Because they're higher in sound. Is that what does it make sense?

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Technically, yes, because every other section is like that.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

And I don't know. I'm a little embarrassed. I don't know the history of this, but why oh why were horns above trumpets always? I somebody knows. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Somebody knows. Hint, hint.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

Yeah. Um, I mean, you know, Chat GPT would tell us in a second.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

We don't use AI. Yeah, yeah, you do. We don't use AI. I would ask it for something like that, yeah. That I would use AI.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Um okay, so brass.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

So I did so I so I have my brass ensembles. And then for that, I use uh cinematic studio strings, cinematic studio brass for the ensemble patch. Um and I have longs and shorts, obviously. For everything. You know, everything is long and shorts. Do you oh so you don't do key switches? No, because it's easier on the orchestrator to figure out what's going on. I mean, even though the it's a sixteenth note than an eighth note and such. I don't use key switches. I don't like Yeah, yeah. No, it's it get to me it gets confusing. But if a line is all right, this is where it gets tricky. If your line is almost lyrical, or it's a chord seg no, I would keep I'm trying to think how I do it. No, I would separate the tracks, the sh the short notes and the and the because honestly, if you're going immediately to short notes, the staccatoes or spicatos, depending on which section, are gonna sound better than the short notes of a sus patch. Okay, of course. I'm saying if you're using different patches, but key switches I I I can't do. I used to just swear by key switches. All right. So you're cinematic studio brass. Cinematic Studio Brass, I have I I don't know if I have Cinasamples ensembles in there anymore. Um man.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Can I quickly say something about Senasamples? Yes, please. I've I've got almost all their libraries. I have loved Senna samples. Yeah. But I have to say they're brass, and I still go back and try it. Because if I've yeah, if I've got a line, especially like if it's trumpets and I and they're doing some staccato, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, something like that. Um I will I will audition it between different libraries to see what sounds better. And and a lot of times it's Cine samples, but dude, I don't know what is going on, but they I get these stuck notes. Is it it's only with their libraries? It's only with their libraries, and I have to I have to purge, I have to go in, I have to open up contact, I have to purge the the library, and then but it'll just keep doing it. I I get that on their trombones, yeah. I mostly for me it's their horns, but yeah, trombones too. And I've had it for trumpets as well, and I do not understand.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

And then will it happen during playback or only on mixed down? No, on playback. Mine will happen like it'll play fine when I'm playing it back, but as soon as I hit mix down and it does it, it runs it through, and you know, you don't hear it when it's mixing down, and I play it back, I'm like, what the fuck? So I have to go in, I print it to audio.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

And I've um I recently uh you know got a new PC, and so everything is freshly installed, so I know I'm not using some old version that those buggy and but every version I've used, it I get these stuck notes that still drives me crazy. Did you um see if anybody else is having those issues with no, but years ago, I mean this happened to me like forever with their brass, but I did email Senna samples about it, and I was like, I'm getting these stuck notes, like it's making me crazy. What do I do? And and they did write back right away. With emptying the cash and purging and yeah, but they're like, Oh, um, just make sure you've updated to the latest version because that won't happen anymore. And and but that's not that's not the issue. I I do not know what's going on. What if it's a cubase issue? But I don't know. It doesn't do anything. Yeah, yeah, I don't else, or like a contact issue, but I like I just don't know. Contact has issues.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Contact next contact needs to go to therapy for sure. Um all right, so where were we? Brass? Yeah. So the ensemble, I could have a myriad of stuff in there. I forget exactly what I have in the ensembles, but then I have horns and I have cinematic studio brass horns, then I have junkie XL horns, um, cine sample horns, and I have my solos, then I have my sus patches, and I only load effects patches if I feel that they're needed in the piece. Um I won't they won't have us. Do you use that? No. Oh, French horn.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

I mean, muted uh trombones.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yeah, only if I feel that it's needed, if only if I hear it, you know, it won't be in there. Um yeah, I mean sometimes you just hear it, you're like, that's gotta be muted. Yeah, yeah. Um and the same goes for each of the sections. I mean, uh my bones are CineSamples, Cinematic Studio, uh Junkie XL. And those are the those are the three main libraries I use for brass, those three. All right.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

So for brass, I am again mostly Berlin. Uh Berlin. Wow. But that started to get replaced by junkie. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

That happened the last time too. Let me shut that off. Go ahead, keep talking. I'm gonna get up. So we use junkie. It was repla it replaced? Berlin?

SPEAKER_02 38:10

Um well, if I'm doing something that needs to be over the top, oh right, right. Then yeah, because Berlin doesn't really sound over the top. Um and so yeah, a lot of junkie these days. Uh and then if I'm just sketching, uh, or if I know that like if I just if I'm kind of in a rush, if if like a recording date is coming up and I'm like, oh my god, there's so much music left to write. And so I don't spend as much time tweaking my mock-ups.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:44

And and so then I'll use uh performance samples, actually. Their breasts. Their stuff is good too, yeah. It is. It I used to think it sounded so amazing. Now it doesn't, it's aged a bit, but the playability on it is so awesome. Yeah, I love being able to do like sus and staccato and the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:02

That's what the those uh musical sampling ones are. Like you do you can do that, and it and it's it they sound good. Um strings, Jesus, that's my most loaded up section. Like I mentioned earlier, I have the Nashville, well, mainstay cinematic studio, uh Spitfire Symphony, Symphonic, uh, Nashville. And then if any of those three ain't working, I just which they usually cover my bases. I mean, yeah, I don't I don't have a third go-to. Um yeah, I'll use Spitfire Chamber strings. They used to be called Sable, I believe. Or was Sable the big one. Remember the different names they had way back then?

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Chamber and Sable.

SPEAKER_01 39:57

Yeah, well, chamber I'll load up. They have a good port string that I use for melodies sometimes. Um, but that's the only thing I'll load up from chamber strings. Um but yeah, what when I'm doing staccatoes, it'll definitely be um if it's a steady staccato rhythm, it'll definitely be Cinematic Studio Strings and Nashville. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

I've never tried Nashville, dude.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

They're so affordable now.

SPEAKER_02 40:25

Uh go grab them. They are I don't use I've got all the cinematic studio uh not wins, but I've got you don't have cinematic studio wins? Uh but I've got strings and brass, and I never use them. Oh, yeah. When I was read when I got my new PC, I I just get I get so tired of hearing the same sound day in and day out. I get that. And it makes me feel less creative. And so I I went through this whole thing with the new PC. I'm like, I'm I'm starting from scratch, that's why I don't have a template right now. Oh, which is really annoying and hard because I have to load in every down one day. Uh I've actually got a guy in Paris that's gonna do one for me, and but he's he's amazing. You should see the mock-ups that come out of the rigs he set up.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

I I don't like I I'm afraid the bigger the mock-up, the long uh obviously the longer it takes to save a damn file.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Which cube is work with him and set up how big the biggest is. No, I know, but I'm just saying because my dude, my templates are tiny compared to most people's.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

I know. I I have a buddy who sends me his track count quite often because he's always modifying his template. And I'm like, you have a thousand plus tracks in here? And this is these are disabled tracks too, but it doesn't cut down the save time. Like mine, I think my template is 400 something tracks. Dude, that even sounds like a crazy amount. And that's a lot, 400 for me. Like I remember seeing a three-something at the top. Uh but what was I gonna say uh about templates?

unknown 42:01

Oh man, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

That's I don't know. That's the other thing we gotta work on. It's you know, but we were just talking about it. Like it literally was right there. Yeah, but then you said something else, and suddenly, you know, now I'm not thinking about it either. Um yeah, no, no, no, but let me talk about cinematic strings because I wanted to love them. Oh, sorry, give me a second. Are we okay?

SPEAKER_01 42:28

We're we're okay at time. But uh this is unprofessional.

SPEAKER_02 42:45

Sorry. I was gonna it was the wife, okay? The Jeopardy theme song, but I was like, we have to pay for that if we ramifications.

SPEAKER_01 42:58

If you sing if you sing it off key, I think we'll be good. Oh well. Then there you go. It was gonna be off-key, obviously. Oh god.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

So, oh, so yeah, so cinematic strings. So I so got the new computer starting from scratch. Um I didn't want to. I didn't sing anything. But go ahead. Okay. Continue. Um and I tried them because, dude, I watched so many videos. What are the best VSDs? They come up showing VSTs. Oh my god, it's so many videos. And I watched a lot. A lot of them. And everybody was like, Cinematic Studio Strings and Brass. And and I tried it, and I just I was working on a on a game, and and my previous cues that I turned in were on my old rig. And then the new one got in, and and that and I turned in my first cue uh with the cinematic studio strings. They rejected it. I got an email. No, but yeah. Oh what? I got an email back that was um I was like, oh, maybe because it was overseas, I'm like, maybe there's a lost in translation thing, but like, because that sounds like they're almost mad at me. But the there is the critique was like he's like, I don't even know, you know, what to what to say to you, Chris. It sounds like like this is a completely different composer, and um and it sounds cheap. And I was like, and I kind of felt like it didn't sound great, but it's like maybe it's just my ears, you know. Maybe it's like, oh, I don't I love Cilantro, I hate Cilantro. Maybe it was something like that, like like, oh, they're like this guy's gonna love the sound of these strings, but he hated them, and I just I think I just don't know how to program them correctly. It shouldn't take much previously. I don't but I'm like if there's anything that I'm gonna reel an expression, right?

SPEAKER_01 45:02

What did you use previously? What was on the other one? Berlin. Berlin. I never had Berlin strings, but yeah, I don't that's strange. I mean people some people say that cinematic studio strings sound thin.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Dude, I don't know, but I I go back and listen, I just listened to it the other day because I was thinking about that. Oh it was it did not sound good. I just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:26

Like I I I I downloaded this uh dude.

SPEAKER_02 45:31

I just want it to sound good out of the box. I hear you. I don't need to and I've man freaking sample developers, like here's the thing, like even stuff was going off topic a little bit, but you know who you are. But I'll get some cool, like, and this is more like the synth stuff, right? Right. Um, but you'll you know, it's like, here's how to take our library and make a cue, you know, that sounds like this, and you and you're like, oh man, yeah, I want to write a cue that sounds like that. Right. And then you see the video of it, and you're like, oh, that's not out of the box at all. Like, there is so much going on under the hood stuff that to do things, I'm like, if you wanted the library to sound like that, just make it sound like that. Why do I have to know how to do everything? I'm in a hurry, man.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

I get you. I get no, I get you. I mean, I I do EQ the cinematic studio strings. I do. Um, and sometimes I put uh I don't know what the plug-in does, but it might be a limiter, but I put SAF, you don't, you don't know much about no, I'm gonna nod my head. Escalator. I forget it. It's I think it's by Black Salt Audio. I think Black Salt puts out Escalator. I could be wrong, don't quote me. Um but sometimes I put that on on melodic string lines to just boost them a little bit. Oh um, but yeah, no, I see what you're saying. You want the shit to sound good out of the box, and and so you don't have to do all that work behind the behind the scenes. Um, but I wasn't for the longest time, and then I figured out that, you know, I watched a video and the person EQ'd the hell out of them, and the mock-up sounded good, so I started EQing them and they ended up sounding better, you know. They weren't so stale and thin. Yeah, so why do you have just present?

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Okay, this is one thing that I love a lot of, I'm sorry, but a lot of companies will be like, give you different mixes. Yeah, like microphones. If you want it to sound great, just use this one. If you want to spend half an hour sticking around with it, use this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Okay, the one thing I noticed with studio cinematic studio strings, the vibrato is off. That can make it sound like shit.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

I noticed that. I did find that later because it sounded thin so bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

And I didn't realize that's how long you have to raise it up, raise it up with two, I think. CC2. I don't know. That's just irritating. But that should be. I mean, if you're doing full strength, that should be up. That just makes it sound world different. Um, I don't think I ever use it off, the vibrato off.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Yeah, it's a that's a very specific sound. Like I would only do no vibrato if I'm picturing something that's like cold. Cold and still and cold still, a frozen lake, and there's like there's like creatures like crawling on the on the ice towards you slow, and you've just got like like strings, but they're just still there's no feeling, it's just yeah, it's just eerie, but that's not what you want in an orchestra sound.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

No, no, no, no. 99%. But I noticed that because I I was never a big fan of their first set of strings. I forget what it was. I think they were called cinematic strings, not cinematic studio. I think they were called cinematic strings. They just had they were noisy. That's the one reason I didn't like them. There's too much noise in them. Um and as you start doubling up sections, and it's just like, this doesn't sound good.

SPEAKER_02 49:17

Yeah, I think it was one of the Spitfire libraries. I used to use, I've got I have so if I went to the Spitfire website right now and said like buy the entire library, buy everything owned, and it'll tell you what you're like, yeah, it'll count like what you've already done.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Finish out your bundle for $79.

SPEAKER_02 49:37

I think that's what it'll be.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

I know. I've got everything. My Spitfire folder is uh pretty, I mean like I have a because in my sample drive, I have an orchestral uh drive and then I have uh just a sample drive, which is everything non-orchestral, and both of those Spitfire libraries uh folders are just packed with everything. Like, if I go through and I do it like a spreadsheet of all of them and what I paid for all of them, I'm gonna be like, I can have a beach house in.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Uh well, you know, I'm thinking about a third sponsorship. Spitfire.

SPEAKER_01 50:16

No, they're beyond little guys like us. Oh, come on. But heaviosity and real crafter, maybe not. If you're watching this, please shoot us an email so we can talk. I'll put you in touch with my business guy, and we can have a partnership. But who's they don't I feel like I'm your business guy? Yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Which is scary. You don't have me as your business guy.

SPEAKER_01 50:42

Um yeah, so I mean that we're coming in close to an hour now. Okay we can we can stretch everything.

SPEAKER_02 50:50

I feel like we've talked about literally nothing.

SPEAKER_01 50:53

I know. Like is the sample sample talk is not gonna be, it's it's a composer talk, so all right. Well, I'm gonna I didn't even it's all this I the one thing I wanted to say about samples. Um this is going back to starting from scratch and listening to stuff, you know. When I work on a project that is little to no orchestra, and I'm away from the orchestra sound for you know a month or two, maybe three months, and I go back into it and I I start with samples of strings, I think every library sounds like poop. Yeah, it's just this is this doesn't sound real. Like you would think the more I guess you get get accustomed to it, the more you use it and you fake yourself into saying that that's what real strings sound like. But when you're away from it and you go back to it, that is the biggest hurdle you've got to get over.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

Is I wonder if that's what happened with me because I didn't, you know, I took like a break over that could definitely yeah, like I didn't just. But you even said the guys there were but then huh you said that the when you turned in the piece that they also Oh, yeah, no, but I mean when I and then I got the new computer and then everything loaded up, but it had been a few weeks, maybe I mean not months, right? But I just I didn't like anything. And then and I've been every almost every cue I've been writing lately, or at least every project, I've been using something totally different, yeah, just to try it out and see if I if I start liking it. And today I went back to uh to Berlin, like everything except for Tempany. And I don't I don't know, like all of a sudden, like I'm like, this sounds awesome.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna have to try, I mean, they can't be as expensive as when they first came out. The thing is with with with orchestral tools, is they have the main library, and then they have so many add-ons for each of the libraries. I know it's I don't it's like do I need all that?

SPEAKER_02 53:05

Yeah, and then like they had like a brass effects, but it's only French horns.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

And like, where's where's the butt effects?

SPEAKER_01 53:13

Yeah, yeah, it's it's I mean. I I I I I I should be happy with what I have. I haven't I have what it takes to get the job done. I think it's just the matter of getting used to the samples after a period of time.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Well, it's just too many, it's like it's like going to a restaurant to order, and if you go to like somewhere that has very few options and it's easier, like, oh, I'm gonna have this. Oh, right, yeah. And then you go to like a cheesecake factory and they give you they throw down the phone book, and you're like, I don't know what I'm gonna have. I it's impossible to choose. I have so many samples that I've literally bought the same libraries. Oh, I've been there. I've done this multiple times and and I really think that's not cool that they even let you do that.

SPEAKER_01 54:00

Well, those are the sites that don't have client portals or that don't have customer portals. Yeah. Um, yeah, I have been victim of buying the same library twice, and then I go to use it again, and I'm like, now I know why I'm not using it, because it just doesn't.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

Yeah, and then there's I'm going through trying to find some cool sounds today, and and I'm just looking through all the libraries, and I and there's some I'm like, I haven't used this, I don't even remember this. Like, what the hell is this company? And I I just started loading stuff in just over and over and over and over, and nothing, and I didn't like any of it. And I was like, I wonder what possessed me to buy that though. There must have been something like some demo or some visual that yeah, but I I mean I spent too long going through multiple libraries from this company, and I didn't like anything.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Yeah, that that's a that's a problem. That could be a conversation for another time. How how much time you spend searching for a sound you hear in your head versus trying to create that sound, you know, on your own with whatever you have, you know. But it's it's a it's a way it's a wasted amount of time searching for stuff.

SPEAKER_02 55:17

Yeah, well, I mean, I don't have any of the any of the rack stuff that's like. No, I'm just like just I don't know how to but that stuff I really count on libraries to like.

SPEAKER_01 55:27

But you can you can you can bring up a sound similar to what you hear and try to edit it, run it through stuff, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 55:39

So yeah, so when I I feel like it's a major disadvantage and a slight advantage at the same time in the way that I don't know what I'm doing. Welcome to the club, my friend. I know what I'm doing with orchestra. Right. Like I was I was I mean, I've been doing it for a while now, but I've been I was never into synth. Right. You know, and then and then when suddenly I I had to be and I had to learn it, and then you know, I treat it honestly like it's the orchestra. I mean, you've got your lows, mids, and highs. Well, of course, yeah, yeah. And so you know, once you wrap your head around, it's like, oh, this well, like this works like a viola, this works like a chalk. Uh but to modify it. To play around with it, and then and I, you know, I'll buy like different plugins and stuff to do things, and you know, I'll see like, oh, something's on sale, it's normally $500, and you can get it for $30. I'm like, I'll just buy it. Right. I don't know what it does, but but it's cheap and everybody says it's great.

SPEAKER_01 56:45

You need to watch more YouTube videos to figure that stuff out.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

Yeah, I know, but I so so that's my disadvantage is not knowing how to do it, what to do. So I'm not sure. Advantage is not really like on plugins for like they're they're presets, 100%. Yeah. And I just go through, like I was using the the heaviosity.

SPEAKER_01 57:05

Oh, we mentioned the heavy again uh today.

SPEAKER_02 57:08

VAST, that's a that's a reverb plugin. Uh no, it's delay.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

Reverb delay.

SPEAKER_02 57:15

Okay. Yeah, it is delay. Uh, but I would just um loop my parts to solo it out and just keep going through presets till it did something that I thought sounded cool. There's nothing wrong with that. No, I know, but I but I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know why that sounds cool.

SPEAKER_01 57:34

Like that type of plugin I rely on presets. And then I try to, you know, figure out like I think you're using the plugin for what it does. So using pre presets for it, I think that's you know understandable and trying to like, and that's how you I think that's how you learn at it. You bring up a preset and you start messing with shit.

SPEAKER_02 58:01

I see, but when I start messing with it, and then it and then it's just not as good.

SPEAKER_01 58:06

But then you load the the preset back up and you start.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

And so I'm counting on the experts that are putting these plugins out to just give me questions that are gonna sound good. And then it's like, don't touch that one because that's as good as it's ever going to sound. Like, do not touch that one. I get you, I get you. Yeah, so that's I do that's my disadvantage. But my advantage is that I will do stuff that probably no one would even think of because it sounds dumb. You're like, oh, don't don't like run that and then through the through this, that's gonna sound awful. And man, I remember that game Carrion that I did. Oh yeah. Like God, it's been like five years now. Um but I wanted it to be just crazy and sound designy, and um, but that's what I was doing. Like, I was taking just fucking around with shit. I would like write a like a drum part, and then I would just I had things that were like, this uses granular synthesis, and I was like, that sounds very fancy, and I've heard that before, but I don't what is it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 59:09

I don't know if you know how to describe it. I know how to use it, but I wouldn't know how to describe it.

SPEAKER_02 59:14

Presets presets, but dude, I would just put I would spend forever just doing that, and then I would find, and then I would get something that sounded kind of cool, and I would render it. Render, yeah, and then I would take that and I would reverse it, uh, and then I would maybe put it through something else. And then it was just like trial and error. I'm just like, what if you did it was like trying to find like the peanut butter and chocolate combo? Like you just rent right at one point you're gonna find it. No, that that was amazing. That is a bonus of not knowing. Yeah, because it it's me, it's literally I am the monkey, the room full of monkeys typing that are eventually gonna type out Hamlet or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

Yeah. No, I mean that that that is definitely a plus. I mean, because when you when you have an idea how things work, you try to make it work how it's supposed to work. You're not thinking out of the box. You're thinking, okay, I want, oh, let's say a delay. I want I'm gonna bring up a delay thing, but you're not thinking about doing anything else, like a reverb to get the you know, it's it's I think that's you know, I don't know, a a huge benefit is not knowing. It's so stay stupid, my friends. I think I don't know. I'm just yeah, I don't know. That's the way I do it. Hey, that's that that that works. I mean, I I know a I know a little bit about a lot. And I mean it's gotten me by. Yeah, I feel like I know a lot about a little. A lot of yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. But I'll spend hours just trying to create sounds. Sometimes I'm happy, sometimes I'm like this was a complete like recording odd stuff in the studio. Like here, you see that I had a violin strapped to a desk over here doing an operation on it, and just to make sounds at it, and I recorded a whole session of that into cubase, and I never ended up using it because I thought it all sucked because I was trying to create unique. I mean, I could probably spend more time and get some cool sounds out of it, but I was just so frustrated. I'm like, this isn't going how I want I wasted so much time. Yeah. Anyway, um, we are about that mark. Oh man. 740.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

Craig, I'm sorry we didn't. We'll get to it. Oh, wait, we kind of talked what we started talking about.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Oh no, he wanted, I think it was more specific how how to get live go from template to live orchestra and have it be useful in a game with looping. And I think I mean the real quick answer, I mean, it's implementation, is music editing. You know, it's that yeah, it's nothing that I'm doing on my end. Yeah, it's just hand the music over and they figure out where the loop points are. I mean, that's as simple as the answer as I think we can get. Wait, you don't set the loop points on your piece?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:04

You don't know where it's gonna loop. Oh, obviously you have to. Well, yeah, what do you mean they set the loop points?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:09

Well, they'll pick and choose.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

Oh, I I do like if I've got a piece that just obviously loops, what I think works great in games is to ask whoever's implementing, can you set it to randomly? If it's something that you're gonna hear, if it's like a combat track that you're gonna hear in something like over and over. Right, right. Um, if it's in an area and there's like this is the combat track for this area, and so it kind of plays and then you and then you stops and then it plays and it stops. So I don't like hearing the same start every time. Oh, right. Because then you're like that cue again. Because you just know you're like, oh, it's I'm fighting. I got the I suck at this and I gotta hear this again. Yeah, I got the top of that cue again. And so if possible, I do encourage um different implementing to like just randomize where it's gonna start.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

Yeah. See, you have more knowledge of that now than I do. I mean, I used to just hand over pieces and they would do the looping. I mean, I obviously I provide tempo key signature and all that stuff for the pieces. Yeah. And they would do the the cropping and looping. But yeah, so that's good for now, right? Unless you have anything else to say.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

Uh no, I was just thinking, yeah, like libraries, we kind of, I mean, we talked a lot about libraries. I don't know if I if we ever really were like, what's your uh like oh, what's your favorite new VST? I don't know if it new It's the the latest thing I spend money on. It's something and sometimes it's not that that's true. I'm like, why didn't I buy that?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:46

Um like the demo sounded so good. Or I I think my latest favorite one I'd have to say is is the classic. I think it's called classic brass, is from the musical sampling. That's what it's called musical sampling. Musical sampling. Musical samples? Musical sampling. Yeah. Yeah. I can give you the it's not uh that I don't want to give out false information.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:12

Let me check. Um and it's not the the synthesis one, right? The No no no no no.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:20

It's actual samples, it's not it's not how do you uh yeah, what is that called?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:26

Um I yeah, that that musicals are and a lot of people use like breath controllers with that stuff. Yeah, yeah, no. I cannot imagine. I'm sure you get used to it, and I've been breath controlling and hitting the keys. Numerous people have tried to talk me into doing breath control, but I'm not a Woodwind player, first of all, so I don't know if I could even do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:47

I mean, I could probably do it with brass. I play trumpet. Didn't you play trumpet too? No, no, who I thought you did. Yeah, classic brass. Oh, okay. Classic brass, musical sampling.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:57

Uh but yeah, trying to trying to play. I'm already a terrible piano player, and so trying to play in the notes and breathe that I'm just so used to mod wheel. Yeah, I would. And sometimes, honestly, if I'm if I just feel like I'm not nailing it, I will just play it in. I'll just set the mod wheel all the way up, I'll play it in, and then I'll go back and I'll just re-record just using modwheel and expression.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

I would like to try a breath control, but I I don't even know how to hook it up. I wouldn't know how to. I think you need an interface to probably I would like to try it. So if anybody has input or info on how to do that, leave it right in the comments. Okay, I think we're done. Thank you for sticking with us. If you did, please subscribe and like and share. Oh, and I had a big news today. Holy crap!

SPEAKER_02 1:05:46

I meant to start the whole hour with this. You dumbass. Um well, this is Thursday, our time. You'll see it next Wednesday. Um You got a haircut. Oh, wait, that was last week. Shut up. Oh, sorry. Um I mean, no go on. I had a new game come out today. Oh. Yeah. Jesus, you should have brought that up to a big game. Well, it's a big um, it's the big first like story DLC for Borderlands 4. It's called It's called Mad Ellie and the Vault of the Damned. And it's very like Borderlands-y still, music-wise, but like but with horror.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:23

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Yeah, it was super fun to do.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

I thought you were gonna say you scored Barbieland. That's more your style. I would score Barbieland. I would too. Who am I kidding? All right. Anyways. All right, thank you guys. Go play Borderlands. Ladies and gentlemen, go play what? Borderlands 4. Oh but Borderlands 4 and go go practice. Set your templates up.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

All right. Thank you. Thanks. See you next time. Bye bye.