Letting Grandma be Grandma with Janie Livesay

How do today’s parents balance boundaries, information overload, and modern parenting fears while still embracing the wisdom and joy grandparents bring? In this deeply personal episode, Taylor and her mom, Janie, unpack the beauty, tension, and grace found in multi-generational parenting while exploring why communication, love, and humility matter more than perfection.

Transcript

Taylor 0:04

Welcome to Raising Grace, a podcast inspired by my own faith and motherhood journey. I'm your host, Taylor Lipesite Groves, and whether you're preparing for pregnancy, navigating sleepless nights, or simply seeking encouragement in a new season, you're in the right place. Here we talk about the real moment the joys, the struggles, the growth, and the grace that carries us through. Each episode is a reminder that even on our hardest days, God is present, working in us and through us as we raise up the next generation with love and faith. So take a deep breath, settle in, and let's walk this journey together. I'm so excited to have my very own mom on my podcast today. I have a podcast. That's so wild. So you're my mom of I'm not gonna say how many years. You have quite a bit of experience in the mom department. You're now a grandma of two. I cannot believe my brother has a baby. No, just kidding. Grandma of two, a girl grandbaby from your daughter, and a boy grandbaby from your son. And wow, I don't even when just thinking about like who you are as a person or your background. I think one of the things that I want people to hear about. So when you and I talk, and this is part of the reason I'm so excited to have this conversation with you. Obviously, we talk as mother and daughter, but also we both have degrees in psychology. Wait, do you have a degree in psychology? I don't. Okay, run it back.

Janie 2:05

No, I think I think that's beautiful. I started out as a psychology major, but I didn't know how to apply it. And so that's when I found clinical social work because I could see a path, like if you graduated with a psychology degree, it's like, what do you do with it?

Taylor 2:23

Right. I graduated with a psychology degree.

Speaker 1 2:27

But you had you had ABA there, which was a, you know, that's a path. And so when I was going through social work, it was a path to to an end, so to speak. Like you you there were more defined things to do if you were a clinical social worker, a licensed clinical social worker, that kind of thing. So my love of psychology never changed. It was just it was more directed at what you could do with it.

unknown 2:58

Yeah.

Speaker 1 2:59

That's all.

Speaker 2 3:00

Yeah, so we both love psychology. I think we both love developmental psychology. Like I said, we have mother and daughter conversations, but we also, I feel like sometimes just completely nerd out on the topic of developmental psychology, you know, and the impact that small decisions have on either our own well-being and mental health, our spouses, or now obviously, we mostly just talk about children, raising children and their psychological development. And so you started out with a psychology degree, you talked about how that turned into social work, clinical, and you were a social worker for a little bit, right? Okay. Um, and then obviously you've gone on to do a million and amazing other things. You're a C-suite level executive and coach, just to name a few. So you're a mama of two, you're a grandma of two, you're also a wife who has been married for 39 this year. 39! Oh my gosh, I've got to start planning for your 40th anniversary. All that to say, you need no qualifications to have this conversation, but I'm just so excited and blessed that I have gotten to glean from your wisdom over the years, get to have these conversations with you over the years as my mom, but also as a mentor. So I feel like I I want to give a lot of context and preface for kind of the main thing that we're gonna talk about today.

Speaker 4:59

Okay.

Speaker 2 5:00

And what I want to start with is this is actually something that I to this day really, really struggle with. I do not have it figured out at all. I actually constantly feel like I'm getting it wrong, or even sometimes I feel spiritually convicted in this area. It is truly such a challenge for me. I know it is probably a challenge for some other moms, and that is how does my generation let grandparents be grandparents with the culture and society that we live in today, where I can pick up my phone and within two minutes, someone telling me how to parent, someone telling me what to feed my child, vaccines or no vaccines, homeschool or public school, or my kid had this happen today, or this traumatic event happened because I was doing this with my child, just so much information at our fingertips, so much to sift through, so much anxiety being a mom and a parent right now with so much information and so much conflicting information, too. Like, how do I find the truth, right? You know, Ashana and I have decided certain things that we believe or certain ways that we want to parent, and we are not quiet about them. We have openly shared them with you, obviously with his parents, with extended family, and everyone has always been so respectful of our boundaries or of the things that are really important to us. But I think what I'm noticing recently is everyone is so respectful, and that's amazing, but back to my original question how do we let you and your generation be a grandparent? And what I mean by that is I guess let me give a real example and then we can dive in. I feel like our example always circles back to food. So I am probably as crunchy as they come at this point. I have gone down the rabbit hole with labels, with ingredients. We let me really let me really set the tone. We did not give Georgia sugar of any kind until after one year old. And I still don't regret that, but she did not have sugar before the age of one, she did not have anything processed before the age of one, we never even did baby food. And I realize we may be on the extreme side of things. But throughout her two and a half year life, we have had so many conversations about, oh no, not that, or, but did you check the ingredients? Or uh maybe only one slice of cake. But it's it's it started out as I feel like a lot of conversations that we had around our preferences or our beliefs or what we were finding out or the research I've been doing. And I feel like I've imparted that on you some. And I feel like we've finally gotten to the place where it's like, you know what she can and can't have, you know our preferences, you respect our boundaries. But then I think like we were out the other day, and someone asked if they could give Georgia something that they don't, she doesn't normally have. And it had been a long day. I'm like, I'm just gonna pick my bottles. And I was like, sure, you know, absolutely. Because I really try in front of Georgia to not have those conversations. I try to have them in private so that she doesn't feel like I'm restricting her, or we try to teach her what's healthy or what something's gonna do to her body, like how it's gonna make her feel. And so I said, Yeah, sure. And then, you know, you're there off to the side, like, what the heck? You know, like you you feel like you can't give her those things because you're trying to respect our boundaries. And so it's just like, how do you get to be the fun, loving grandparent who can kind of give their grandkid whatever they want, but then also juggling your daughter and your son-in-law's preferences and boundaries. And then, like, how do we do it in a way that is healthy and fun and life-giving and experiencing joy? Because it can be so not life-giving. It can be so hard on our relationship or even your relationship with Georgia, where you have to hesitate, like, oh, could I give her this? Should I give her this? Am I gonna get my hands slapped if I do, you know? Ultimately, like I said, it's something I really struggle with. And so I'm asking you this. I don't know that I've ever asked you this before, but I genuinely I would love your advice and your wisdom and for you to share with others just your thoughts on how you think we could possibly find that balance with just the way that the world is and the access that we have to information.

Speaker 1 11:00

So I think uh I have so much to say about this. Um, hopefully it will come out in the in an articulated way so that people can understand. But honestly, if I go all the way back to when you guys were little, um, I actually first experienced this through your cousin. And your cousin had allergies. So it was a different ball game, but still very similar in that I remember it kind of being a thing between your grandmother and your aunt that they were giving uh the I'll call them treats because, like, if you're there were some things she was allergic to, there were some things she was sensitive. But if there was ever any latitude in something that we would call a treat, then they were giving it to her. And I just remember her mom being like, I'd like to do that every now and then, you know, like they were they were taking up all of that bandwidth, and then she didn't get to do any. So that was years ago, and I kind of thought about that. And now here we are fast forward. And I remember that when um we first started having these conversations. I remember thinking, oh my goodness, can she not even have a goldfish? And then as we had conversations, you provided me research, then it was kind of like, now that I know, I would never give her a goldfish. The goldfish of today are not the goldfish of yesterday. And then you just start, you know, seeing that it's that way with most of our food. And so then you start peeling back the layers of that for yourself as well as for once you are educated, why would you do that to a child? And it's so hard to unsee it.

Speaker 2 13:01

Yes, once you've seen it. And I think that it used to make me angry. Like, but but I had to realize that people hadn't always gone down the rabbit hole that I've gone down or that I've taken you down. So, like, when other people would give her things, it would make me so angry. Like, why would you want to give that to a child, knowing what it can do to you know their body? And I used to get so angry, but then I really had to check myself, like, okay, first of all, not everyone has gotten a degree in ingredient label reading like you have, Taylor. Like and now my mom has a minor in it because I've made her get one.

Speaker 1 13:46

No, I I think that um so for so when we kind of went through that the uh not too long ago, that was kind of the first time where I felt like if you call yourself the major and I call myself the minor, then I was suddenly seeing like the ripple effect and and kind of where I was advocating with others. And I think that was the first time I felt like I've been advocating, I've been saying respect what Taylor's trying to accomplish, what Taylor and Ashton are trying to accomplish, because they're really on the right path. It's it's not the same. And then if I make myself the bad guy, that particular day when you were just like whatever, I was like, oh my gosh, I've made myself the bad guy. I was holding the line. So I think that it's through communication, constant communication about it, not in front of the child, is kind of how you get there and and where you pick what that line is. There are just things that I'm never gonna give her because I know, but it pushes you to find other ways to be the fun grandparent. And we found those ways, and they are outside of bad food. Now, y'all might think I've lost my mind in other areas of some of the games we play or the imagination we use, or how I let her, you know, like completely tear up the living room to build a how what did she say? She says obstacles, so cute. Obstacle. I don't know. Yeah. I don't know how she says it, but anyway. Um, I think that the communication is kind of what what brought me along. And then the, you know, we still need that village concept of raising children. And so the communication, the why behind it, making sure that we were moving past just boundaries and respect. I have those things, but by communicating the why of it really helped me dig in and get on the same page of I don't want to do that to her either. And then being able to share that, I I struggle with that a little bit. I could do a better job of presenting the why so that other people buy in and it's not just a boundary or a respect thing. You know, I think that one of the ways that your generation can lean on grandparents, if they're having these conversations, is to help you synthesize the new stuff and where we are in our society and environment and health and all of those contributing factors that have changed. If you have a grandparent that's staying on top of that with you, you can still use them to synthesize, you're in it, right? You know, that old cliche, this too shall pass. The grandparent has that long runway of seeing the things. They can help you synthesize all of that information coming at you to kind of help you walk through. Okay, this is gonna pass. I can lean into this, it's gonna move along. But that that one, that's a red flag that we really need to work on. And they can be a resource to kind of help you navigate that not everything is a tier one, zero to ten, you know, thing that you're going through. And I think that that it's just so important for grandparents to lean in and be present. You know, you you are having to, like the first time around for us, we were juggling life. We had to make a living, we had to run a household, and we had to figure out how to do all of that concurrently with children. And a grandparent can separate that a little bit. It's very rewarding because we didn't get to do that the first time around. And so now to just read the room and whatever she's up for, you know, we I don't have a plan.

Speaker 2 18:09

If it's a day where she wants something, sometimes drives me bonkers, but it's a beautiful thing. And I don't know if I want to take that from you. And I think I've real now that she's getting older, I think I've realized that it's more important to me for her to experience you as a grandma than to have every boundary line held. I think one of the things that was hard for me was we are so blessed that you and my mother-in-law take care of Georgia while I work during the week. So for a little while, it was hard for me because I'm like, well, I want you to be grandma, but also you are seeing her almost as much as I am. So I think it was really hard because I'm like, I want you to be able to be grandma on the weekend, but like, since you're my daycare, we need a little bit of structure.

Speaker 1 19:12

Like, got it.

Speaker 2 19:14

You know, you and Lovey, my mother-in-law, are with her, you know, when I was full time, you guys were with her more than I was. It didn't feel like a, oh, I'm at grandma's house, let me have a cookie or let me have an ice cream. It's like, well, that's every day of the week. You're at grandma's house. So, you know, how can we find that balance? And I feel like we ended up going the complete opposite direction, where, you know, you guys did incorporate more structure and you don't do those things as much. And I think what I'm ready for is let's figure out how to work some of those things back in because I do want you to be able to be Grandma J and to come into the room, having that experience, having that wisdom, and seeing it so differently. I saw something the other day, and it was like a grandfather just talking about how getting to see his grandkids is like getting to relive his children's childhood from like a totally different perspective, mindset, you know, like you said, where you can separate, where you're not in the thick of it. And I think that's so beautiful, and I think that God designed it this way. Like, there is supposed to be this respect for the older generation. And I feel like my generation is the first to maybe don't take me wrong in this, we're not necessarily smarter and wiser than the generation before us, but we just have so much more information. You know, used to before technology, your parent would have all of that information and wisdom and be able to pass that down. And it's like now we're passing things up. And I think we have to be really careful that in doing that, we don't negate, like you said, the wisdom that you have from a longevity of it. Because I am very narrow-sided right now. I am in the thick of it, I am in survival mode sometimes, and you can look at it from a 30-year span. These are pockets. Whereas I'm like, this is my everything right now.

Speaker 1 21:23

Right. I don't even think that you realize that. Like the first time that she wanted to play in my car, I thought, what are we like? We don't need to play in the car. What are we doing? But then I was like, no, we we were climbing and working on balance and counting and and with the windows down, you're outside. Yeah, and with the windows down, we're outside. And so one of the things that I have focused on is you have to set boundaries in a different way, right? You have rules. Of your house. You have um, and I don't disrespect those, but I can get after things a little differently. I can change scenery. I can, I don't have to flat out say no. I can get there in a different path. And that that's the grandmother part, right? That's the, you know, your brother and your father tease me that, you know, I never say no. I may not ever say no, but I am strategically moving us to do different things and get there, right? So I don't have to be the no, no, no. That that's the gift I think of being able to be a grandmother, but I'm not just letting her do everything that she wants to do. I'm just doing it way more strategically because I'm not in the thick of things. I'm not trying to juggle the household and do 10 things at once. So I can be more present, I can be more focused in that way. Um, but I'm also very aware of the values that you and Ashton would like to convey and that I would like to convey as a grandmother. And I show up and I do those in those things that you don't even realize I'm doing. I think that's the art of parenting. And I think it's exponentially raised as the art of grandparenting, right? And so if we're doing a task together, I'm still showing those values. If if there's a problem set and I'm challenging her, like, how do we solve this? Like, you hey, you got your shoes on the wrong feet. How do you tell if if they're on the wrong feet? And we kind of talk about how they point or whatever. You're so good at that. You don't necessarily get to do that the first time around as well. So, like talking with her and and just focusing on her and not being not being distracted by food and not being distracted by screen time. That we are one-on-one. And so, yes, on Friday nights, I may look like I've been run over because I have been on all day long under this disguise of no plan, go with the flow, Georgia's the queen of the castle, right? But in the background, I'm making sure that our values show up. I'm making sure that I'm respecting you and Ashton. I'm making sure that I'm leaning into age appropriate, if she only wants to play in her little house for two seconds and we move on to something else, that's fine. Um, and just being able to go with it and lean into are there any teaching moments in whatever we're doing that I can present that don't look like teaching moments? Like the other day we were reading the little ladybug book, and it's about five ladybugs. And so we've been talking about the ladybugs, and I was like, what if you add one more? How many do you have? And she was held up my fingers. If you can just incorporate little moments like that, there's joy in that. There's joy in seeing them, you know, develop and become who they are, and her processing and her her curiosity, and it's just it's just amazing to be able to be to do that, to be able to lean into that and focus on that and not have to worry about paying the bills or keeping the house straight or doing the laundry or the 100 other things that you have to do. But I can do that within the boundaries and parameters and the things that are important to you in Ashton, but I think I can do that because you've communicated with me. And I can let you do the heavy lifting, like reading labels makes my head hurt. So I just get you to sanction something, and then I I'm, you know, like that's a shortcut or a hack for me as a grandparent, is you do that, you figure that out, and then give me the list and I'm good to go. I think if you go back to that question, how can my generation, your generation? I think it's it's the communication and communicating the why. Because who wouldn't be on board with the why?

Speaker 2 26:22

Yeah. I think that one, we're so blessed that you are willing and open to hear us out, respect our boundaries, understand our values. I think it's amazing what you talked about, where like for us, we have some boundaries around or some preferences around food for our children. And so you have found other ways to be a fun grandparent, other things that bring you joy outside of a food treat, if you will. Or you have talked with us about what is an appropriate treat or a treat that we are okay with you giving. So I think that was super cool because for some people it may not be food. Maybe it's, you know, a certain schedule that they want respected, or maybe it's certain clothes, or you know, I don't know what it is for other people, but I think the point you were making is respect the boundaries and find alternative ways to have the fun, see the joy, be the grandparent.

Speaker 1 27:51

Yes. And don't forget that part of you mentioned it a while ago in the thing that you read about what the grandfather said, but you know, part of being a grandparent is that it is a different way to love you and support you. So that's one of the goals is and it's almost like the side effect is that I have this awesome relationship. Now I'm gonna cry with this little girl and this little boy. Um but it's it's also sometimes I feel like you're seeing the grandparent as if there's a definition that goes with grandparent that is like knows no, like can do whatever they want. And I just want to clarify that when you are working to support your child, you and you are working to be part of the village. Like I tease your dad all the time, like, look, our goal is to be invited back, don't mess us up, right? Yeah, and so if you are, you know, being part of that village is being a support system to not only you, but to Georgia, right? And and being an advocate for her and having her best interest at the top, like when you when you are doing that together, there is such joy to be found in that. And then the joy isn't necessarily always to be, I'm the grandparent and I get to do whatever and break all the rules or whatever. There's time for that, and and there's ways in that because you know, she can come here and like I said, we'll tear up the living room to build a fort or an obstacle course or whatever. So that's kind of you know, those are the things of I get to do that at at uh Jay and Pop's house versus it doesn't have to be that, you know, we eat a gallon of ice cream or you know, when you're talking about that margin of outside of life rules, you know, when you're talking about doing things like I'm doing air quotes at grandma's house, it's still what's best for her. And I know that that will look different based on the grandchild, right? It'll look different based on the individual personality of your grandchildren. It changes every day, right? And so I think if you go back to the fundamental values of respect and all of you know kindness and all of our family values, and if we are having open conversations, that's an evolving thing just like the rest of life. Um, but I've seen the joy in it. I've seen the joy in it.

Speaker 2 30:55

I think what helps that too, and this has always been so important to me. And if in every way that I've failed in trying to figure this out, I feel like this is one thing that we have done right. And that is these conversations, this communication that we're talking about, we don't have that in front of Georgia. Those are the after she goes to bed phone calls of what went down today? Or wait, can we talk about this? And I think that's so important because I really try to make a conscious effort in front of her to never well, I don't always do a good job of this with you because you're my mom. So I feel like I can be like, mom, don't do that. But I try I try not to do that. I one, I want her to know it's important to respect. There's a level of respect for your mom and dad, there's a level of respect for your grandparents. Obviously, we we respect everyone.

Speaker 32:00

I have to get this out the other day when you tossed me your phone, it did leave a mark. I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 32:14

I don't know why I just thought of that, but it was I didn't mean to do that. It's just part though of I think my point and why my mind went to that was what you were saying about not trying to have some of those, like if the conversation gets difficult, then we have, you know, we talk through the pros and the cons and all the things, not in front of her. Correct. But then it and then you were talking about sometimes you might go, you're my mom, and I'm like, those are important to to show her that we're human and then show her a good reaction to that. And that's either like apologizing and saying, let me wind that back. I reacted too fast, or like the other day you hit me in the knee, it hurt like a big dog, but I was laughing because I knew you didn't mean to.

Speaker 2 33:16

I knew I sound like the one, the strictest fun sucking parent, and now I sound like an abusive daughter. This is going great. You're not. I just tossed you my phone because you were demanding for me to fix something on my phone for you. I have horrible aim and I did I hit your knee really hard. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 33:42

But I guess what I'm trying to say is that we turned, you know, like that. It was funny. I mean, I knew you weren't trying to do it. And so I think I was just trying to show her, like, okay, shake it off.

Speaker 2 33:57

Like, I think you literally told her, like, the pain will stop.

Speaker 1 34:00

The pain will stop. Well, I told we had been talking earlier that morning about how when you hurt yourself, if you can just take a breath, you know that pain will stop. It's just like if you breathe through it, it helps, right?

Speaker 2 34:16

Right. Yeah, she's just taking that big tumble.

Speaker 1 34:19

Yes. And so we were having that conversation, and so then it was it was real time. You could it's real time. So I was like, Jay's breathing, I'm breathing. This hurts, it will stop in a moment. Taylor, I think this is gonna leave a mark, but it's gonna stop it. So so that just goes back to the pivot as a grandparent and finding the joy in whatever you've got.

Speaker 2 34:46

And so, you know, well, and I'm so serious-minded that you can you help me laugh things off, and it is good for her to see that. Like you are at the stage in life where when something doesn't exactly go as planned, you can laugh about it. I'm not always there yet, and it's a really good that's I think that's kind of the point of all of this, is as a grandparent, those are the things where you can shine and bring wisdom and bring a lightheartedness because you do know that everything is a season, everything is a phase, and you can laugh it off a little bit more. Whereas I'm like, this is the end of the world. I hope that you know, I really wanted to ask you these questions more for the moms that are around my age and my generation that are listening, but by chance another grandmother gets to listen to this. I hope it inspires and encourages them too. I do too, because they're missing out. Yeah. What is your best motherly advice, or what has God really been showing you or teaching you in motherhood or grandmotherhood recently?

Speaker 1 36:08

I think what what God has been showing me, the um the be still, the taking a pause, and kind of leaning into being present and uh being uh able to not going in with a plan, kind of being able to take it as it comes and enjoy the moment, whatever that moment may be. And and there's a bigger picture thing too, because I think he's trying to show us that in life, but especially with grandchildren, that there is a way to be respectful of parents and join and support them and just totally enjoy your grandchildren and to really work at that communication. So I think that God is just trying to show me that that is ever changing, ever changing. I think my motherly advice is that um and I didn't make this up, somebody gave me this advice years, years and years ago, and always come back to it. But you know, when it's hard and you're in the thick of it, and some days you feel like you're failing and and you have a small win every now and then, and you're doing all the juggling, but when you're in the thick of it, it's just to lean in and love harder. So when you're when you're talking about these things, if you're doing it through the lens of love, Corinthians always comes to mind. And then I'll leave you with this. If you always go in with the mindset of what do I need to do to be invited back, that might keep you out of a little bit of trouble.

Speaker 2 38:01

I'm so grateful that you're my mom. I know that I have the best mom ever. I've known that. You never really truly understand how much you love your mom until you become a mom. And you realize what your mom went through and did for you. And I'm just so grateful for you. I'm so blessed by you. I'm so grateful that I get to share you with others through this platform. I know it will bless someone, but I don't think our conversations are over. And I think this was a great start. And yeah, thanks for putting up with me because I'm a real pain in the butt sometimes, and I'm raising a mini version of me, and you have to put up with her now.

Speaker 1 38:52

So it's awesome. Honored to be here. I'm honored that you care what I think and say, um, and that you let me participate. And it's just it's an honor to support y'all.

Speaker 2 39:04

Love you, mom.

Speaker 1 39:05

Love you.