SPEAKER_00 0:17

Welcome back to the Coaching for Life podcast with Monty Williams and Will Davis, a conversation that we pray encourages you to pursue the Christ center life. And as always, it's a great privilege to be with my good friend and co-host, Monty Williams. And today, Monty, we're talking about how to grow in the spiritual life. What does it look like to grow as a disciple of Jesus? And as you look back on your own spiritual life, can you share some general thoughts on the importance of discipleship and the role that it has played in your growth as a believer in Christ?

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah. Well, firstly, I didn't understand discipleship at all when I became a Christian. Church was an activity for me. And when you're that young and God does something to grab your heart, at least for me, I didn't understand many concepts that were biblical. What I did know was we were going to church. And so for me, discipleship was something done by example from afar. As I watched different people at church, my little league football coach, who was probably the first person in athletics, Coach Jim Westbrook, who was an example of godly manhood that I'd never really paid much attention to outside of my granddad. And then as I've gotten older and a little bit more mature, there were people like Pat Magley, Rick Godwin, Bill Gephardt, yourself that have been so instrumental in my walk as a believer. And from a practical sense, if I was gonna parallel it to basketball, I've had, you know, basketball mentors, um Doc Rivers, Nate McMillan, Coach Pop, uh my high school coach, uh Taft Hickman. Um and so it's it's been huge for me. Um and it's and it's and biblical in terms of like where does discipleship come from? Well, it comes from the Bible. Um Proverbs 1114 says we need help. It says for a lack of guidance, a nation falls, but victory is won through many advisors. And we are to take advantage, uh surrender, and submit to um older, more mature believers uh in the matters of scripture, in the matters of life, um, or else we end up like Rhea Bohm in the Bible, where he he listened to his buddies instead of the wise people in the nation of Israel, and it caused a lot of problems. And and the goal is always um it's it's not another contract, it's not um more square footage, it's not a nicer car, it's it's maturity in Christ. And where do we get that? We get it from Colossians 1 28. Uh the Bible says he is the one that we proclaim, admonishing and teaching in all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. And I didn't understand that um as a as a younger believer until I got in the word and I was able to sit under uh Brett Metter in in Westland, Oregon, at Aethe Creek Um Christian Fellowship. I didn't know anything about that stuff. It just it never dawned on me. And um you taught recently on um Apollos in Acts 18 and how uh he was eloquent, he was an Alexandrian, he he was a dude. Like he had a lot of things going for him, but he still needed discipleship. And Priscilla and Aquila took him aside and changed his life. Yes. And so you ask me the question, like, what does that look like? For me, it's just been profound. Yeah. And whatever growth, maturity I've had, it hasn't happened on my own. Yeah. It's been on the shoulders of people like Randy and Sandy Ross and Roger LaVasa and Gary Dozier and different people that I've run into. You and I were talking before we started taping, like many experiences in my life have seemingly been about basketball in my eyes, but God was using basketball as I moved around the country to run into these amazing uh believers who were willing and and ready to just spend time with me and go through the scriptures and talk to me about things that I had not thought about, and it's helped me to become somewhat more mature in Christ.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Yes. When you first come to faith, you don't know what you don't know, you know, and and you need someone to come alongside and help you and and you can observe their lives. You know, that word disciple means a learner and a follower, a student. In the New Testament, it's interesting, we see that term Christian used only three times, believer just two times, but the word for disciple occurs 269 times. And it's a key theme of the New Testament. What does it look like to grow as a disciple of Jesus? And for the listener, uh, we know that this is a lifelong process. I mean, none of us graduate from the school of discipleship. We're we're still learning, we're still growing. You know, you and I are in our 50s, and there's still so much to be discovered from God's Word. Yeah. I remember when I was at Dallas Seminary, just how much I did not know. That was one of my big takeaways for my time there at the seminary. I still needed to mature so much in the Christian life. And I was able to learn just by sitting under the godly leadership of these men and women. And it wasn't a lecture more than just their lives that served as the greatest lecture to me. And that's what we want to pray about as well. Who are some people in our lives that we can impart godly wisdom to, again, just by walking alongside them, you know, learning from God's word, and through just everyday living and and struggling. And I know that you have seen that in your own life, just being discipled has really helped to shape who you are.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah. I I think that the the part that's so interesting for me is I didn't see it coming. You know, it was like I said, I thought all of these moves around the country and around the world um was a basketball thing. And basketball has been a huge part of my life, but it was God's vehicle because he loves me so much. Um he's used basketball to introduce me to so many people. And it like you said, like there there have been times and many times where I've been at a a coffee shop or someone's home after a meal and we've gotten into the word and it's been awesome. But there's also been this observation um aspect of discipleship that was really important. And it it that has been um a bit of pressure on me as I've gotten older that I need to be um the example that God wants me to be in front of my own boys, in front of my all of my kids and and now grand uh kids. Um and so discipleship, you know, we we we don't have enough video time to to really talk about the impact that it's had on us. Right. Um all of you guys who went to DTS, like I've heard the stories of different professors that you all got a chance to be around and watch and and study under. And I used to envy that. Um because when I think of DTS, it it's really intimidating to me. I'm like, man, I I can't imagine having to learn like different languages and try to know all of this, but God gives you the strength to do it to do it. But that's a pretty cool testimony when I when I hear about different people in seminaries that you know they're in the class, but they also have lunch or coffee or you know, time away from the class, and that that part of discipleship is just as important.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah, and I I think you were almost going through a seminary, just the different places where God had you, and he was using key people as those those models and those examples. So so you were going through your own seminary of discovery, and again, you thought it was a basketball move and a decision that took you to wherever it was, uh, Portland, New Orleans, uh, but God was using different people throughout those days to build you up in Christ because very rarely does someone grow in a place of isolation. Yeah. You know, we talked about that in pod number one, and the enemy can so much more easily deceive us if we are alone. And we can so much more easily believe those lies from the enemy if we're not in relationship, if we're not in community. I remember when I came to faith as a freshman in college, what brought about spiritual growth and maturity in those early years was some solid, mature guys in the faith who were modeling what it looks like to pursue God's word and spiritual integrity. Again, it wasn't a necessarily any certain sermon that I heard or any talk that I heard, but it was other people that I could learn from. You don't grow by reading a book on discipleship. I mean, those things, those things can be helpful, but we need those other people, like you said, like a Priscilla and Aquilla, to take us under their wing, point us to Jesus. And they're not perfect people as we know. They're they're sinners saved by grace, just like us. But we observe, we watch, we see how they handle trials, we see how they battle temptation, how they discipline their time in God's Word and in prayer. And it's that kind of model that inspires us to pursue Christ more and more. Before we we started this podcast, you we came up with a list of five key markers of someone who is growing in Christ. So what would you say is sign number one of a growing disciple?

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, and and we we both know there's multiple um markers, but number one for us is putting Jesus first. And um it's somewhat cliche in faith-based religious circles, but it's it's foundational and true at the same time. And when you look at Mark 8, 34 through 38, the Bible says, and he summoned the crowd together with his disciples and said to them, If anyone wants to come after me, he must deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospels will save it. For what does it benefit a person to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what could a person give in exchange for his soul? For whoever is ashamed of me, and my words, in this adulterous, sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when we when he comes in the glory of his father with the holy angels. Yeah. And that that's that denying of ourselves and putting him first is a huge marker in terms of discipleship. And I I found it um to be played out in my life in in terms of time. You know, watching different mentors over the years and asking them like how how do you how do you get in this thing and and know it and and study it and and are able to teach it. And it's it's only by the power of the Spirit, um, not by might nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord. But also these examples. And for me it's been time. You know, getting up early in the morning, um, a Matthew 6.33 thing. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. Um my morning time is so important to my daily walk, and it wasn't always like that. Um, the first person that I saw do that was my first wife, Ingrid. She was a monster when it came to Bible study, prayer, and journaling. And I was, like I said before, I was a Devo guy. I was just like I had more devos around the house than I care to talk about. Um and it was hard to get into the discipline of denying my want, my desire, because I I could have done a number of things. One, sleep another hour. Yeah. Um, I could have, you know, gone to work out, gone fishing, whatever the case, gone to the gym. Like the ability that God has given me by his spirit and by him drawing me closer to him and using other people as an example to me has been huge for me. And it's taught me to deny my flesh and what I want to want to do and and make an attempt to put um the Lord first in the morning. And again, it's been a game changer for me. Like I and it's amazing how in the quiet of the morning before everybody gets up and and I go deal with my dogs and work out and go do what I'm gonna do, um, what the Lord gives me in the morning. You know, direction, peace, um, wisdom, uh sometimes uh a strong impression to be quiet. You know, that those are all kind of tied to that morning time when I'm seeking the Lord. And I can't imagine me doing that had I not had the example of other believers uh giving me the example of doing that on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_00 15:47

Yeah, that's well said because these marks of someone who's growing in Christ are not listed in order of importance. But I would say that number one is in the right place, you know, putting Jesus first, denying self. And then number two on the list is following the teachings of Christ. And again, that is reading the scripture, studying the word, and obey it for godly living. And our obedience goes hand in hand with our love for God. If we if we love God, we will seek to obey Him and to be doers of the Word. James 1.22. Jesus also said in John 14, 21, whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. And it was such a treat a couple days ago. I was at a conference in Dallas, and one of our heroes of the faith, Chuck Swindall, came out on stage and spoke for a little while. And Pastor Chuck talks about discipleship as being a radical separation from a secular worldview to a godly purpose and mindset, presenting our lives as a living sacrifice to him. Romans 12, one, being set apart to Jesus as a spiritual act of worship. So, number one, putting Jesus first. Number two, following his teachings through the word. And what about sign number three?

SPEAKER_01 17:24

Sign number three is connection. Um, being connected to the Lord that allows you to bear fruit, uh, which is the key. Um and the goal of our lives, one of the goals is to bear fruit for the kingdom. Uh, when you look at uh John 15 uh 5, the Bible says, I am the vine, you are the branches. The one who remains in me and I in him produces much fruit. And I I've learned the hard way when I'm not connected, when I'm not praying, when I'm not studying, when I'm not seeking wise counsel, um in those discipleship relationships, I can get myself into a bit of a pickle. And again, it is something that I still struggle with, I still um am working on, but I have found um when I am connected um to the Lord and as He uses people like yourself and Pastor Bill and and others that I've confided in or sat under for years, um it's been huge for my growth, it's been huge for my marriage, uh, my family, and other aspects of my life. And it involves uh a level of intimacy with the Lord that is so profound for us. Uh James 4, 8 says, draw near to God and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners, and purify your hearts, double-minded people. And I, you know, I didn't when I when I became a Christian, I I just, you know, there were so many terms that were just like way over my head. And so when I heard about intimacy, I was like, what are we talking about? You know, you tend to think of intimacy um only in marriage, only in in showing affection and that kind of thing, but intimacy with the Lord, um, whether it's with another brother, an older brother, um, is important to our growth and it allows us to bear fruit. And and, you know, what are we as believers if we're not bearing fruit for the kingdom? Yeah. You know, not much.

SPEAKER_00 19:38

No. That's good. So putting Jesus first, number one, following his teachings through the word. Number three, bearing fruit, bearing spiritual fruit. And then number four is a genuine love for others. Christ said in John 13, a new command I give you, love one another, as I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this, all will know that you are my disciples if you love one another. Yeah. And I believe that true, genuine, Christ-like love for others starts from a place of genuine humility. And we talked about that in in pod number two, as we were talking about pride and on the other side of that, the godly humility and and what that looks like. And so having that genuine Christ-like love for other people, it's not from our own self, which is which is very selfish, but a selfless sacrificial love. And again, Christ is our example. We we saw that before with Philippians 2. And then discipleship doesn't stop with us, and that leads to sign number five.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah. Sign number five is is making disciples of others, which I am a huge uh benefit, beneficiary of many people sowing into my life, my life, and and into my family. Um and it's it's founded in scripture when we look at Matthew uh 28, verse um eighteen, uh, and Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to follow all that I commanded you, and behold, I am with you always to the end of the age. And and that part um again was something that was, you know, relatively foreign to me. Um because when I heard the Great Commission, I just I I heard I thought to myself, like, that's for somebody else. Or if I was under Will Davis or Pastor Bill, like they were charged to make a disciple of me, but as I've gotten or helped me in my discipleship walk, as I've gotten older and I have my own kids and and they're old and they're getting older and and moving into adulthood. Well, that's my job at home, is to disciple my family and my wife. Like that's that's a husband's job is to wash his wife with the water of the word. And it's been a huge um shift, if you will, in my thinking in terms of disciple discipleship, because earlier in my walk, I thought it was for me to just sit under. I didn't understand my role as a leader in my own home to disciple my family. Yeah. And that has forced me to dig deeper into the scriptures and pray more about what it says and to use um tools like the Bible knowledge commentary, especially when it comes to stuff that I'm not sure about. You know, nothing worse than getting in front of your family and and not knowing what to say or teaching the wrong thing. And so it forces you to get into the scriptures even more. And um there's an old testament um verse or verses that I wanted to also hit in Ezekiel um thirty-four. Uh the Bible says, Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and say to those shepherds, shepherds, this is what the Lord God says. Woe, shepherd of Israel, who have been feeding themselves, should the shepherds not feed the flock? And and it goes on to just expound on that. Like it doesn't do me any good as a believer, especially in my own home, as I disciple my family, to just learn and and study in the morning and just keep it to myself and not teach and share it with my family. Yeah. And again, I've I've been a beneficiary of people like yourself, and I've said the names before, of people that had a ton of knowledge and wisdom and have grown in this Bible that we love and and need daily, and they've taken the time to share with me and many others. And like I said, it's been a huge part of my growth as a Christian.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah. Well, you mentioned Matthew 28, it's a command, it's it's a commission that Christ left for us to go and make disciples. It's not a suggestion. But some might be hearing this and and wondering, okay, I want to disciple other people, but where do I start? Well, and and as you have so well communicated, if you're married or if you have kids, you can start with them. Your first ministry is your family and leading them spiritually, praying for them. And again, it doesn't have to be a seminary course uh at dinner time, but you can start by just reading a little bit of scripture after dinner and then praying for your family. One of the most important and spiritual things you can do in your marriage is to pray for and with your wife. And then you can come up with a list. Think of a list of about 10 people, write that list down. Okay, here's 10 people that I'm praying for, either in my workplace or in my neighborhood, and pray about opportunities to share spiritual things with, to start those spiritual conversations. And you may just be a little bit ahead of someone spiritually. Well, you're qualified to disciple them, and you can just ask them, would you be interested in getting together a couple times a month over a coffee and let's study God's word?

unknown 26:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Everyone needs a Paul, they need a spiritual mentor. Yeah. And everyone needs a Timothy-like person in their lives too that they can build into. And we also need to pray for those Barnabas relationships, those Priscilla and Aquilas, those partners in the faith, like uh you and Lisa have been to me and Kara. Uh it was great hearing about the ladies, you know, going on a walk this morning, spending that time mutually encouraging one another in the Lord. And I like how Tim Keller said that discipleship is more than just bending our will to God's will, but a disciple is someone with a new, reshaped identity, a transformed heart, and a life set apart to Christ. And you think about in terms of application, uh, growth in Christ comes from saturating your life in the Word of God, reading it, studying it, memorizing it, sharing it, living it out. You think about that word discipleship, at the base of that word is discipline. Discipleship requires discipline. As we're recording this, you know, the basketball team here in our city, this the San Antonio Spurs are moving on to the second round. And I like what their coach, uh Mitch Williams or Mitch Johnson, recently said in a huddle embrace the mundane and and embracing doing all of those little things consistently to where we get to that point of reaching that that greater and higher goal. So the work is not spent behind a microphone or at a uh pulpit, but it's all of those little things, like you've been saying, getting up early in the morning or you might do it late at night, but just where you're alone with the Lord, you're spending time in the Word, it's all of that spiritual training that is done when no one else is watching and soaking up the scripture and embracing the mundane of following Christ under the power of the Holy Spirit. And I know you've had other uh sayings that that have helped you to motivate and inspire your players and your own life throughout the years.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah, it's it's it we'd be here all day if I shared all the goofy things I've said in a coaching huddle over the course of my basketball life as a coach. And I've heard a number of things over the years that have inspired me. One thing I I I heard um from John MacArthur back in the day, he would he said, find someone who knows more than you and learn from them. If you're around someone that is less mature than you, teach them what you know. And and that's discipleship in a cycle. You know, if if I'm around Pastor Bill, then I'm gonna I'm gonna sit and listen and nod my head and take notes and pray. Yeah. And not to be uh like him, because if if two of us are alike, one of us isn't necessary, but I can learn from him. And that's something that um has been a huge part of my life. But then I've I've I've also moved into this world where I'm getting older and I'm I'm around a number of young athletes and coaches and and young people at the high school where I coach, and I get a chance to um impart to them what God has imparted to me or what I've learned from other more mature believers. And in that, I get to be um a mentor to other people. And one of the things I, you know, sometimes I'll use a coaching um analogy or I'll use something that I've I've heard. I I heard Cooper Flagg, who uh just won Rookie of the Year, I heard his mom um something she said to him back in the day, and other people may have used it, but she would tell him, if you're the best player in the gym, find another gym. And her thing was like, if you're the best player and you're playing with kids that you can dominate, you're not gonna get better. And if we relay that to what we're talking about in terms of discipleship, find someone who is mature, um, grizzled, um, well-versed, uh, can articulate it in a way that you can understand it. And sometimes you may not understand it, but get under that person. And I I I haven't seen uh as long as I've been going to church, I've never I don't think I've ever seen an older believer turn someone down who wanted to learn. Yeah. You know, and so find some, pray about it and ask God to show you um who that person is. Yeah, it's amazing what can come from um those kinds of relationships.

SPEAKER_00 31:18

Yes. Pray about that person and then pray about someone else that that you can pour into. Again, the same thing as you just said. I've never had someone say no. I don't want to get together for coffee and and study God's word and pray together. I mean, everybody wants that that community and that that connection.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

So again, number one, putting Jesus first. Two, a disciple of someone who is following the teachings of Christ. You're in the Word. Three, you're bearing fruit, you're bearing f spiritual fruit as you are connected to the vine, Jesus. And then four, you're displaying a genuine love for others, a selfless sacrificial love. And then five, you're looking to make disciples. How can I pour my life into someone else? And any final words of encouragement, you know, someone who is is feeling like they they might be in neutral gear in the spiritual life. They're not feeling like they're growing, they're feeling a little apathetic in in their spiritual life. What are some ways we can encourage the listener to again pursue the Christ-filled life and find that that sense of spiritual significance in their lives?

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Yeah. One, I'd say you're not alone. Yeah. I think that's something that we don't generally talk about a ton. Um we we all deal with those moments in our walk, seasons in our walk. You know, I wish it was just a day, but there's been seasons in my walk where I've just felt so dry and and like I was stagnant, not growing, um, and searching for, you know, something spectacular. It just wasn't gonna happen. And it's it's it's just part of our growth, it's part of our life um as believers. Um and then I would I would encourage anyone going through that. Um, and it's what we do in basketball, is what we do in sports, is anytime you're going through a tough time where you're struggling to grow as a team, you tend to get back to the fundamentals. Um you go back to the basics, you go back to a training camp type practice. And for us as believers, it just starts with number one, as we talked about, putting the Lord first. Um starts with Bible study, starts with prayer, starts with fellowship. Um, if you look at how the church was built in in the book of Acts, you look at the model for church, it's Acts 242. You could start right there and and be encouraged by that. And so what, you know, you're not alone. We all go through it. Um as men, we tend to not talk about those moments in our walk. Um some of us would even go so far as to say we were in a bit of depression during those times. And and that's okay. God is able to bring us through anything. And then I would compliment that by getting back to the fundamentals. Um and and and you you don't have to do that alone. Right. You know, when you're getting back to the fundamentals as a player, I need a direction from my coach to do that. Um as a believer, get direction from someone who's more mature than you are and dive into the fundamentals of our faith and watch what God does. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

No, there are many mornings where you don't feel like getting up and exercising or getting into the scripture. Uh, but you feel so much better when you when you stay true to that spiritual discipline or again that discipline of of going on a walk or or getting some exercise, but you're patient. You know, it's it's a lifelong process, and I think that's that's perfectly said, get back to the fundamentals, you know, spend time in prayer, spend time in the Word. God wants us to be so much more than just a fan of Jesus, but to be a true follower. And we have to get off the fence. We have to, you know, uh spiritually push all of our chips to the center of the table and saying, I'm all in for you, Jesus, and see what God does.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

I tell it's funny you say that. I tell my kids, you cannot live on daddy's faith. Yeah. It's good. And you just said it, pushing your chips to the middle of the table. Like you, you have to, like daddy, as they as they're getting older, and Micah's 15, and you know, he's he's at that age where discipleship is huge for him, but Elijah's going off to college. And I'm like, son, you're not gonna be able to live on daddy's faith when you go to college, man. You have to push your chips in the middle of the table and and live this out and get under someone who can and daddy's gonna be there, but I I hope, I pray that God provides someone at school to mentor you and and to be that uh person for you. So it's interesting. You say I hate to interrupt you like that, but it was just it was so like on my heart, like, man, that I'm I'm dealing with that right now with the boys at home. It's like, bro, like you gotta get involved. Yeah, you know, don't just go to church and listen to a sermon. You know, all those things are important and God uses those things, but to grow the way that we're talking about, like, you gotta get involved. Yeah. And this, you know, it was interesting. I never thought that I would plan my morning on what I did the night before. Like, if it get if it starts getting too late, I'm like, I need to go to bed. Right. Well, why? Because I gotta get up early in the morning so I can have my time. Yep. You know, I never thought I would be like that. You know, if I was gonna get up in the morning years and years ago, it was like to go work out or go fishing or go hunting with my uncle Connie back in the day, but not to get up and study. Yeah. And not to get up and go meet at a coffee shop with another believer and just crack open the word and see what God has for us. So I, you know, when you said push your chips into the middle of the table, like, man, that involves a lot.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Yeah. And some people may not have that community. And so we want to pray for you. And if if there is a Bible church in in your area, if there's a church that's teaching God's word, um, we want to encourage you to pursue that community. And if we can also help you, I mean, if if you want to send us an email and let us know, I'm in this part of the country or this part of the world, I'm looking for a church that that teaches the word. We want to try to help you find that. And you're never gonna regret chasing after the Lord and being right at the very center of his perfect will. That's the best place, that's the safest place to be, right at the center of God's will for your life. And as we wrap up, you know, we want to remind the listener that we do thank God for you. Uh, we want to be here to encourage you, and you can feel free to email us and let us know how we can be praying for you today. The email address again is Monty at coachingforlife.us or will at coachingforthenumlife.us. And let me pray for our listeners now. Lord, we do thank you for not only creating us in your image, but you became like us in order to serve as that perfect, sinless sacrifice for us by dying on the cross for our sins and in our place, and giving us the gift of everlasting life if we simply place our faith in you, Jesus. And Lord, I pray that you would draw someone listening today to receive that gift of everlasting life, and then would you help them to grow as a disciple, as a follower, as a learner, place them in a community and surrounded by dear brothers and sisters in Christ that can help them grow in their faith. And Lord, would you speak to us today, minister to us in whatever it is that we are facing? We ask this in the name of Jesus. Amen. Well, thank you for spending time with us. And remember, whatever it is that you're going through, know that God loves you, He's here for you, He's got a good plan for you, and we'll see you next time.