SPEAKER_00 0:17

Welcome back to the Coaching for Life podcast with Monty Williams and Will Davis, a conversation that we pray encourages you to pursue the Christ in her life. And it's always a highlight of the week to spend some time with my good friend and co-host, Mr. Monty Williams. And today, Monty, we're talking about obedience when it's tough. Obedience is easy when there's not much sacrifice or risk involved. But today we want to look at some biblical examples of obedience when the situation is difficult. Yeah. And hopefully share some testimonies and personal stories along the way. But where do you want to start on this topic of tough obedience?

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Yeah, I I want to start um in Daniel three, um, the the Bible's version of the big three. We talk about the big three in in the NBA a ton when it comes to building teams, but there's there's three dudes, uh three tough dudes, Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego. Um when you jump right into Daniel chapter three, um, you see uh these guys who showed a level of toughness and obedience um in a really rough situation. And in chapter three, verse three, we see um the stage is set when a statue idol is made. Um and the whole idea was to um create an idol so everybody would worship the king, Nebuchadnezzar, um, and and not God. And in verse six, um, we see that it's demanded from the people. In verse eight, um, we see these faithful men are falsely accused um because they they would not uh bow down. And in verse 13, um we see the rage of a prideful king. And we've talked about Nebuchadnezzar in terms of his pride and how Daniel had called him him up, if you will, and how he caused uh a season of pain uh for uh the king. But in this particular story, in the big three, um, we see uh these guys showing a level of obedience during a tough, tough situation. And in verse 16, the Bible says, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego replied to him, King Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. Now that that's that's something to be able to say that to the king. But they go on to say, if we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from your majesty's hands. But even if he does not, we want you to know, your majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up. And I I love that verse. There's so many verses, there's so many things there. One, the even if part reminds me of uh one of my favorite groups, if not my favorite group, um Mercy Me, their song, uh Even If. Uh it just shows a level of um faith and trust in God um when things aren't going your way. Yeah. Or there's the possibility where it might not go your way. And we see in verse 23, um, these faithful men are punished for being faithful. But in verse 25 and 26, we see the evidence of the Lord rescuing um these men. And when you look at verse 25, it's uh the king says, Look, I see four men untied and walking about in the middle of the fire unharmed. And there's another song. I don't know who sings this song, but um I've heard of a number of renditions, um, Another in the Fire. And when I hear that song, it it it you know, you you think right away of this particular chapter in the scriptures. And I this one is, you know, we could go on for a while, um, but it it's it's a reminder to trust God when things aren't going our way. Um and I'm also reminded of some of the videos and and different pastors and and missionaries um over in Africa who are sharing these stories of people in Nigeria, uh Mozambique, and different countries over there who are going through unreal persecution and they're remaining faithful uh during a tough, tough, tough time. I don't even think tough is the word that we should use for what's going on over there. And these three, the big three, Meshach, Shadrach, and Abednego, stood up to the king. I mean, think just think about that, like standing up to the most powerful person in the land and telling that person, I will not bow down to you. We're going to trust God. Even if you throw us into a fiery furnace and kill us, we're still going to trust God. And God, in his sovereignty and in his power, rescue them. And it's been an inspiration and example to us to this day. I think it's a pretty cool way to build your faith. Obviously, uh, we're all going to go through situations in our walk with the Lord that don't go our way. And um, our job, as we talk about a lot, which is easier said than done. Um, but we must do it, be faithful and trust God through it all.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah. Well, thank you for bringing up that very, very sad situation in in Nigeria. And we need to be praying for our brothers and sisters there who are facing persecution and even death for their faith in Christ. I think of Peter, who immediately dropped his nets and left behind his fishing business to obey and follow after Christ. And then later on in John 6, verse 66, we read about how many of Christ's disciples were turning back and no longer following after Jesus. And Jesus then turned to the 12 in verse 67 and said, Do you guys want to leave as well? And Peter answered, Lord, to whom shall we go? Yeah. Where are we going to go? I mean, you have the words of eternal life. Yeah. You know, it makes me think of being called to full-time vocational ministry and called to go to Dallas Seminary in the fall of 1999 and driving up to Dallas and a little pickup truck, not knowing anybody, moving my stuff into this little dorm room on the seminary campus, having no idea what the future held. Kara and I were engaged at the time, but not yet married. I didn't have any family there, no support system. And I remember that first night in the dorm room, lying there in bed and hearing the sounds of downtown Dallas outside the window, and just that thought of what have I gotten myself into? You know, I don't have anybody here that I can lean upon. But then the Lord just quietly said, You can lean upon me. You know, I'm I'm your support system, I'm I'm your strength. And I showed up that next day to my very first class, Bible study methods taught by the great Howard Hendricks, and I quickly knew, okay, this is where I need to be. And I had that thought as Peter did, God, you've called me, so where else am I gonna go? I I better just trust and obey, even when it's tough. And later on, um, after Christ's resurrection and ascension in Acts 5, Peter and the disciples are on trial before the Sanhedrin, and the high priest question Peter, saying, We strictly told you to no longer teach in this name, the name of Jesus, and yet you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and you intend to bring this man's blood upon us. But Peter and the apostles answered, We must obey God rather than men. Despite the cost, we must obey God first. And it's it's an amazing testimony.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Yeah. I think it's it's interesting because when I listen to that story and you talk about that time in your life, like your trust and God walking you through that, we at Christ Community Church are the beneficiaries of that trust. And you think about these stories and these people that we're gonna talk about, uh whether it's the big three or um the the next guy that I'm gonna talk about, John the Baptist, like how many people have been beneficiaries of that level of faith and trust and walking through um the red seas of life, if you will, not knowing, like, Lord, are you sure? You know, you're just but God calls us to trust him. You know, I've often heard um, you know, we want a map, and God gives us a flashlight, you know. And if we had a map, we could kind of see what it's gonna look like, but with a flashlight, our sight is is is finite for sure. And in in reference to John the Baptist, um, you know, he feared God more than the rulers of this world. And in Matthew 14, we learn John called Herod out. Often I I use that term in terms of calling people up to their potential, but in this situation, uh John the Baptist called Herod out based on the law written in Leviticus 18, verses 16 and 20. Herod was in direct violation. Um, he was with and married to his brother's wife, which was uh something that John was just not going to let go without letting him know like you're wrong. And eventually he lost his freedom and then his life, um, based on events that happened after that. Um in Matthew uh 14 verses 3 and 4, the Bible says, Now Herod had arrested John and bound him and put him in prison because of Herodias, his brother's Philip's wife. For John had been saying, It is not lawful for you to have her. So he told him straight up, like this is not right. Not based on his opinion, based on the law. And in Luke 3.9, we see another reference, 3.19, I'm sorry. But when John rebuked Herod the Tetrarch because of his marriage to Herodias, his brother's wife, and all other evil things he had done. So it wasn't just that marriage. He he had also called him out on some other stuff. And it made me think about um, you know, times in my coaching. Like that's one of the hardest things to do is tell a player something that you know is right, and you know it's gonna cost you the relationship or it's gonna set the relationship back. And sometimes, in my case, it's cost me my job. But what I've learned over time based on different coaches that I've had over the years, whether it was Coach Hickman, um, he was the first coach to throw me out of the gym. I mean, he if he saw me finger roll it and not dunk it, he'd tell me get out. And I couldn't figure it out. And he did it a couple times, and it it took it took a while for me to get used to that. But what I realized and what other you know players over time told me, they were like, no, man, he sees something in you. And I was like, Well, can he I was like, can you write it down next time instead of throwing me out of the gym? And I've had other coaches like Coach Larry Brown, Coach Pop, Doc Rivers, Nate McMillan, Coach Riley, uh, Coach Jeff Van Gundy. Um, those guys risked the relationship with me to tell me the truth that was going to help me in my career. And at the time I didn't get it. Now these these examples are a far cry from what John the Baptist went through in Matthew 14 and in Luke uh three. But but we know for sure that when we stand up for truth as we know it. Now we now this is what I've had to learn in a tough way over the years. I gotta make sure that what I'm saying is on point. We never have to guess when we study the word. Yeah. Like when we study the word and we know what's true, we can do what uh Shipra and Pua did. They they knew what the they knew they weren't supposed to kill babies. And so they were able to stand in civil disobedience on the word of God. Um, I've learned over time that I gotta make sure that I'm on point. Yeah and in my coaching, um high school uh pro, it's always good to have people around you that you can bounce stuff off of. I know for me, I talk to you, I talk to Pastor Bill, and then I talk to people on the staff to make sure that I'm right about something before I talk to a player. And there have been times in my career where I haven't I hadn't done that. And those are the times that I regret because there's a bit of a gray. Is it my opinion or am I speaking truth? And I I've learned over time that I want to make sure that I'm like John the Baptist. He he understood the scriptures, he understood the law from Leviticus 18 that Herod wasn't supposed to be doing that. So he wasn't standing on his opinion, he was standing on the truth of God.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah. Yeah, John knew what the risk involved. He knew that he would lose his life. And I also think about Abraham, who left behind his people, everything that he knew, his his home. Because God called him to go to a foreign land, and he didn't know where God was sending him. He just went. He just obeyed. And then later, Abraham was called by God to offer up his only son Isaac as a sacrifice, and again, Abraham obeyed. And God saw that obedience and stopped Abraham in that moment. But I think the greatest example, of course, is Christ, who prayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, Matthew 26, Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will. And that's to be our attitude when we obey, Lord, not my will, but your will, and and we yield to the perfect will of the Father. I think about a time in college when I had not been a believer for very long and and I was living in unrepentant sin. And when I was praying, it felt like I was praying to a brick wall. You know, I knew that God hadn't left me or turned his back on me, but I felt God's silence because I was walking in disobedience to his will and his plan for me. But then I I turned to Jesus in in repentance and confessed my sins to him. And God forgave me. He restored me and he put me back on that path pointed at him. So it's often that time of of repentance and and seeking God's forgiveness when when he gets our attention and then we're ready to walk in obedience. And and you mentioned those heroic women in and in Exodus, the some of these forgotten heroes of the Old Testament.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah, I brought their names up uh early, uh just because they're two women that are, you know, once you Bible study is so important. Um sound teaching is really important because you can study and and look at commentaries and being in a solid church. I'm grateful for what we have here at Christ. Um, but you learn um about people that you you might not consider if you just read the scriptures just to read them. And two of my favorite uh people uh just happen to be women. You know, these are these are ladies that I can't wait to meet when we go to heaven and be like, what was that like? I mean it probably won't matter when we get there, but what I I call this midwife mentality. Um we see this in Exodus one. Um we see a story play out uh that that gives us confidence to be obedient during uh times where our status is going up against uh an institution, if you will. Um the king. The Bible says in Exodus one, fifteen through sixteen, the king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shipra and Pua, When you are helping the Hebrew women during childbirth on the delivery stool, if you see that the baby is a boy, kill him. But if if it is a girl, let her live. In verse 17, um, you know, this is one of those verses that we've we've brought this up before. It's one of my goofy deals about having an anchor verse. Um verse 17 says, the midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do. They let the boys live. Verse 18 says the king is livid and approaches the midwives. Now just imagine that. Like if you just read through that, you can just gloss over it. Yeah. But imagine the king of Egypt going to talk to these two midwives. You know, imagine the angst that they had. And verse 19 says the midwives answered Pharaoh. Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women. They are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive. And I think one thing is it we have to be clear about uh the scriptures tell us um in Matthew 20, uh Romans 13, 1 Peter 2, um, they tell us to obey our human authorities. Um I think we've lost um levels of that in terms of respecting the positions of um our president, um, our governor, um, people in our city based on what we think they should be doing. I think we've lost a level of respect for the positions of these people. Um and and and scripture's clear um that we're to obey human authorities. Uh Romans 13, 5 says the civil civil government is ordained by God. You know, so that that's that's our basis for, it's not our opinion. We may not agree um with what they want us to do, and and you know, we can go on and on about that, but we are to still respect um people in these positions. The law, uh the laws of man flow directly in contradiction to the laws of God. We are to obey God. That that's the that's the speed bump. That's the that's the uh the comma, if you will. Like anytime a law uh forces us to think like, does this agree with God's word? We we are to choose God's word. And that's what they did. And we see uh these New Testament uh one New Testament example in Acts 529. Um, and we can read different examples throughout the scriptures. But the one that sticks out to me um is Daniel. Yes. Um, you know, he he was he's one of the heroes of our faith. Um and and he's you know the royal administrators and prefects, as the Bible says in Daniel 6 and 7, uh prefects, atraps, advisors, and governors have all agreed that the king should issue an edict and enforce the decree that anyone who prays to any God or human being during these next thirty days except to you, your majesty shall be thrown into the lion's den. So that there's this law put into place telling everybody to, you know, not pray. And if you do pray, you have to pray to uh the king. Now, when Daniel learned that the decree had been published, he went home to his upstairs room where the windows opened toward Jerusalem. Three times a day he got down on his knees and prayed, giving thanks to his God, just as he just as he had done before. This is the same as Shipra and Pua. You know, he he was gonna stand on God's word and not a law mandated by a prideful, egotistical king. And and I just think to myself, I'm like, man, I, you know, I'd love to sit here and stand. I'd be that tough, I'd be that strong. Um I don't know. I believe I would, but I don't know. I've never been put in that situation. I think it's, you know, I think it's what we do in church. It's what we do in religious circles. We we tend to, you know, say to ourselves, like, I would have, I would have been that strong, or I, you know, I would have done this or I would have done that. We don't know. But we do see uh these examples of People like Daniel, Shippra, and Pua, and we also see they get blessed for their obedience. The Bible says in the rest of the story, in the rest of the story from Exodus, these women got their own households as God blessed them for their obedience. And just think of that. They were midwives taking care of other people's kids, and they spared the lives of the boys. And there was big time ramifications. Because that act of killing those boys would have more than likely caused the Hebrew people to be extinct. Right. Because only women would have grown up, and then those women would have married Egyptians, and then the Hebrew line would have been gone. And so we talk about like me being a member here at Christ Community Church. I'm a beneficiary of your faithfulness during that time in Dallas on a much larger scale, how we've been beneficiaries of these two women and their faithfulness and the faithfulness of someone like Daniel who said, No, you know what? I'm going to pray to my God, and I'm not going to pray to you, King, because you're not my God.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

I think those are great examples. A not so great example is King Saul in 1 Samuel 15. God told Saul to go and attack the Amalekites and fight against them and completely wipe them out. Every person, every animal. But when the prophet Samuel goes to meet with Saul after the battle is over, Saul comes to Samuel and says, I've obeyed the commandment of the Lord. But then Saul says, or Samuel says in verse 14, What is that noise I'm hearing then? You know, it sounds like the bleeding of sheep and the lowing of oxen. And Saul gets defensive and he and he says in verse 21, It was the people. The people took of the spoil, they took the sheep and the oxen to sacrifice to the Lord your God. And Samuel said, has the Lord as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as in obeying the voice of the Lord? Behold, it is better to obey. And that's better than sacrifice.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

It's a pretty cool but also sobering example in terms of I don't I don't think we understand totally, especially when we're in it, what obedience um means. I think we live in this mic microwave society where we feel like if we obey on the spot, then there's supposed to be this 30, 60, 100fold blessing like right away. Um that that's where the trust comes in. That's where the faithfulness comes in. That's where we're to have this childlike faith. You know, it's like sitting in the back of a car when you know you're on your way somewhere, it could be somewhere good, it could be somewhere that's you know just okay, but you sit in the backseat trusting that it's you're just with your dad, you're with your mom, you're with someone that you trust, and they're gonna get you where you need to go.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

They have your best in mind.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

They got your best in mind. And it's it's an interesting deal in reference to what you just shared in 1 Samuel 15, uh verse 10 says, Then the word of the Lord came to Samuel saying, I regret that I have made Saul king. Yes. Like it's so easy to just pick on Saul, you know. But I I think about times in my life where if I had Samuel, he could say that about me, where I wasn't as faithful, where I didn't trust, where I wasn't obedient, whether it's in my marriage, in my coaching, in my relationships, um, in the mundane things that happen around my house that I know happened that no one else knows about. Could Samuel say that to me? And I'm I'm often uh reminded of one of my heroes in the faith, uh Charles Stanley, Dr. Stanley. Like he's, you know, I you still hear his voice. You know, we all we all have like different people that we listen to. Um Jay Vernon McGee, you know, that you you say that name to a young person, they'll just look at you like, what? You know, they think you're talking about an entertainer because his name sounds so cool. Iconic voice, iconic voice sticks to me. It's it's you know, if the bar needs painting, then just paint it. You know, it's like you I can still hear that. Um but Dr. Stanley, uh one of his Stanleyisms is you be obedient and let God handle the consequences. And and that's something that has been on my heart um for a while. Uh different people like him and Pastor Bill have their own uh take on certain scriptures. And then this one is you could you know relay this, connect this to many scriptures, but the one that comes to mind is Proverbs 3, 5, and 6. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your path straight. Our job is to trust. Um, whether it's the king, the president, the boss of our job. Um it doesn't matter. If if what they're asking us to do violates scripture, we are to trust God and allow him, let him, as Dr. Stanley says, to handle the consequences. And that's cool for me. I didn't I didn't hear that growing up. I maybe I did and I wasn't paying attention, but I often talk to my boys, I get to talk to these kids in high school about uh trusting the Lord, you know, let him handle whatever comes after that. Um our verse last year on the team was Galatians 6 9, and we used to meet every year, every day in practice, and every once in a while I'd bring it up, and all the kids would try to remember it. And, you know, we just talked about doing good and not growing tired in that. And in due season, you'll gain a reward if you don't give up. And so cool to be able to walk through a basketball season with kids and watch God do more than just help you win games, but help you win in areas of your life that are way more important than basketball. So when I see um this story about Saul, it reminds me of myself, times where I wasn't as faithful as I needed to be. And what would Samuel say to me? The Bible says Samuel he was furious and cried out to the Lord all night because of Saul's sin. Yeah. And I would have to say that he would have done the same thing with me. But thank God for his grace as he takes us from where we used to be to where we are to where we're going as we are being formed into the image of his son.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

No, I think as we look at Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and Abraham, you know, most of us will not face this kind of dramatic moment of obedience. But more of what Eugene Peterson talked about, a long obedience in the same direction. It's that sustained daily faithfulness to Christ as we lean upon Him and His Word, spending time daily in the scripture, daily in prayer, being a part of a community of faith in which we're worshiping with other believers, where we're making and building disciples, not becoming weary of doing good, like you talked about, and honoring your wife, loving your kids, like we talked about last time. Uh be obedience is most difficult during the midst of the trials. And I like how Ginny Allen says when we do face those challenging situations, let's ask these questions. God, what are you saying to me in this trial in the midst of this fire? And obedience requires us knowing God's voice. The sheep recognize the voice of the shepherd. And then what do you want me to do? God, I want to obey you. So give me that strength to surrender to your perspective and your purposes for my life. Again, we have so much to learn in this area and and a lot of room for growth. Yeah. So any kind of final word of encouragement or application to the listener who's who's maybe living in a place of disobedience, you know, maybe they're outside of God's will and plan for their life. How do we get back on track?

SPEAKER_01 31:25

Yeah. I when I did this preparation for this study, um, it was easy for me to look at the concept of toughness during obedience, um, to look at faithfulness during obedience. And all those things have their place. But as I studied it more, um, it had to be the Lord in terms of helping me to see that I need to be tough and obedient because I love God. Yes. Not because I want an outcome. Right. Not because I want to get saved from a situation. And I don't think I ever looked at it that way. Um I looked at obedience and faithfulness in terms of um a transaction that if I did those things, God would bless me. That part of my walk has grown some. I'd love to tell you that it's all gone, but it's probably not the fact or the case. But as I study this, um, you realize that God looks for us to do these things because we love him. Yeah. And you see that from these people that we are talking about, whether it's Shipp R and Pua, whether it's the Big Three, uh John the Baptist, like all of these people had a love for God. And in that love for God, um, they showed a level of toughness, they showed a level of faithfulness, uh, they showed a level of commitment. And all those things flow from love. Yes, as opposed to the other way around. And I I think as we study scripture, as we go to church, as we are going through um these tough times, um, we are to develop uh our love for the Lord uh through prayer, through Bible study, through uh connecting with Him. And that was something that I just didn't understand early in my walk. Um I did stuff to gain. Yes. And I if I'm being totally honest, I still do. But I think there's a level in my walk and in my relationship where my love for God has grown. And my hope is that I'm at a place in my walk where I do show obedience, um, show faithfulness because I love him. And it it always takes me back to Romans 5.8. You know, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Like that's love, you know. John 3.16, God so loved the world that he gave. Everything was done out of love. I can't say that I've always been that way, but as an encouragement to anyone who's listening to grow in their love for the Lord. And from that flows obedience and faithfulness and commitment and all these uh things that we want to be better at as we are striving to be more like our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

Yes, I I think that's a great point. You know, we don't just obey because it's the right thing to do. Obedience and and love go hand in hand in our in our spiritual life. They should be synonymous. We obey because we love God, and because we love God, we want to obey Him more.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

I mean, isn't that what we want our kids to do? Yeah. Like when I'm talking to my daughters, or I'm, you know, Micah's the only one home right now. I'm teaching him like all kinds of stuff. You know, he's he's with me all the time, so he's gotta, he's he's catching it right now. He's out there cleaning dog kennels with me, he's doing all kinds of stuff. I I don't want him doing stuff to get an allowance or to get all of the benefits that come with being in our family. Yeah. I I'm my tail wags when he does it because he loves me. Right. And I think to myself, I'm like, man, how many times have I not done what I'm supposed to do out of a genuine love for the Lord? Now, not to say that my love for the Lord is genuine, uh, because I'm still dealing with this flesh. But as I move to this place of being more like the Lord, my hope and my prayer is that um I do it because I love the Lord in the same way that I want my kids to be obedient when I ask them to do something, especially Micah. He's the only one that's home right now. Uh I I'm so excited when I see that he's he's just doing it just because he he loves dad and he just he wants to see dad happy, that kind of thing, as opposed to doing it so he can get something from me, which is what I do I tend to do for him anyway, but it feels so much better when I I can just sense the fact that he's being obedient because he loves his dad.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

I think that's an amazing uh feeling. I mean, there's no greater joy to see our kids wanting to not just honor us, but more importantly, you know, pursue God, serve Christ. You you see your kids worshiping the Lord, and and so it it is so fulfilling to see that that they are are wanting to do that because they love God. Yeah. And we still have a lot of room to grow in this area of obedience. So please pray for us that God would give us the strength to obey, even when it's difficult. And and we want to pray for you as well. And let's do that right now. Lord, we do thank you for anyone who might be listening today. We pray that you would help them to obey, help us all to obey, even uh especially when it's tough, even when we don't feel like it. And and Lord, we want to walk in step with you, Jesus, and your perfect plans and purposes for our lives. We do thank you for the many examples of obedience in the scripture that that we can learn from and emulate, and and none greater than you, Jesus, uh, as you obeyed your Father to the point of death, death on the cross for our sins. We thank you that you rose from the dead and you gave us the gift of everlasting life in you if we receive you by faith. And we do pray for any who have not yet made that decision to trust in you. Would they do so today? Draw them to yourself, and we will give you thanks. We pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen. Well, thank you for spending some time with us today. Happy fourth, and we thank God for this nation. And remember, whatever it is you're facing today, know that God loves you, He's for you, He's got a good plan for you, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

Thank you for joining us. Wherever you receive.