Mek we feed wi self

This episode explores how household and community urban farming can strengthen Jamaica’s food security, reduce dependence on imports, and enhance resilience to climate shocks. Framed through nature-based solutions, we discuss practical strategies, current local initiatives, and the roles of public agencies, private-sector partners, and communities in supporting safe and sustainable urban agriculture.  

Produced by the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica with funding support from Global Affairs Canada.

This podcast was recorded at Harry J Studio, Kingston, Jamaica. 

Producer: Reneiquca Walker-McKnight 

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:09

We're really so glad that you are joining us for this podcast. We hope you will stay with us for the entire series of conversations that we plan to have. This podcast, Resilience Naturally, is a product of the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica, as part of the Jamaica Urban Solutions for the Environment, otherwise known as J Use Project. My name is Carol Narcisse, and I'm the gender and social inclusion specialist with the J Use Project.

SPEAKER_03 0:37

And beside me, as my great co-host is I'm Rashini Clark Randall, the nature-based climate solution specialist with the J Use Project. Over the next few weeks, we'll be taking you on a journey to explore issues surrounding how climate change, climate action, and gender intersex. And how working closely with nature can help us to solve some of the problems that we face every day. That's right, Mashini.

SPEAKER_06 1:04

Climate change, as we all know, or we should by now have heard the term climate change. And it's posing all sorts of problems. And the one we're going to be tackling in this conversation is the issue of how climate impacts food supply, and therefore how we're going to deal with food security when we're having more droughts or we're having more flooding, uh, hurricanes more frequent, the intensity of hurricanes becoming greater, uh, and so on. All of those things, as everyone knows, coming out of Melissa and every other event that we've had, or let's say for the last three years, everyone knows liquor breeze blow or plenty of breeze blow, and we can't buy food because the prices do what? Go through the roof. And I don't know about you, Rashidi, but after Melissa, I said to myself, go and plant in my backyard because this has got to stop. This overdependence on on buying uh everything that I consume. We're gonna be talking about about food security, and to kick these things off, I uh spoke with Errol Simmons, a Kingston farmer, who turned his rooftop into a living food garden. And I should just tell you, Errol Simmons is a mechanic by profession, and it is on the top of his mechanic building uh that he has created a garden that is just pro just full of stuff. So let's hear what Errol shared, and then we're gonna come back to our two great guests in studio. What gave you the idea of using your what is your mechanic garage?

SPEAKER_00 2:55

What made you think of incorporating a food garden? Alright, so I'm always growing up in the country in Clarendon, and at the age of four, five, six, seven, you're out there doing things. So even when I did this, I leave a little section because I had to plant.

SPEAKER_06 3:12

And so you looked around your space and you said, Yeah, alright, it's my mechanic shop, but I can grow food here too.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Right, yes. Um so but I didn't have much space, as you can see. So um I would plant this is avocado, my cousin John Chambers gave me two avocados, the Simon Spear, this pear. I planted it right there.

SPEAKER_06 3:36

And you know, listeners, what Errol is is mentioning is in just a little side of the house of the properties, like, you know, the side of your house, not wide, and along that side he has planting, banana, pears. Is that a ju are these June plums?

SPEAKER_00 3:56

June plums. June plums. Rose apple.

SPEAKER_06 3:59

Rose apple. Rose apple lime. You hardly see rose apple in Kingston. And you put them in the in the bags um to protect it from insects.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Right, the the fruit bats. Yes, the right. Ah, yes, yes. Um and the and the birds.

SPEAKER_06 4:17

Listeners, the fruit bag is transparent, it still allows for the sunlight, etc., but it keeps away the birds and the insects from eating the fruit before you're able to enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

So the the main thing is that after when Gilbert came around, I wasn't going out as I would normally do. I'm an outside party person, and I needed something to do. I have stuff on the roof, didn't think of it. Start putting one and two stuff. I had pineapple down here, just wasn't doing well. And I started moving a few upstairs, and I realized how they were doing. What did you have upstairs before you were planting? Just parts for the mechanics business.

SPEAKER_06 4:59

Yeah. So then you said, no, I can't move this parts to one side and put some pots.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

And then I start to research and realize how much container could plant this in pots. Yes, you can plant in pots. The size, different sizes.

SPEAKER_06 5:12

And I see that you use every little space.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_06 5:17

So um so you've built your, you know, a little stand along the fence line. And along the fence line, now you have cucumber vine going up the fence, tomatoes tied on to the fence, lettuce there, lettuce in pots.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_06 5:33

Gosh. And then are we going upstairs? Yes, let's go upstairs. So follow us on uh audio on audio as we make our way upstairs to Errol's amazing rooftop garden.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

These are pineapples. Um I don't I hardly plant the head because the head takes like four or five years. So this is a slip or the little one that grows around the base. Yes. Yes, yeah, or sucker. So but most of these are the slips that grow around the base. So I will be putting them in bigger parts.

SPEAKER_06 6:10

These will take like less than two years at times, or a little over two years to be Harold Simmons, a Kingston farmer, who turned his rooftop into a living food garden.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

Alright, so we are going to have our guest in studio weighing on the issue, but I would just like to set the tone since we are talking about nature-based solutions. Um, I just want to give a quick relatable definition. So, nature-based solutions are designs that utilize nature or natural elements, so rocks, stones, vegetation, to solve everyday issues that we're having, especially in our cities or what we call our urban spaces. And some of these issues are food security, heat stress, biodiversity loss, and flooding. So, today, as we look to weigh in on food security, let's hear from our guests.

SPEAKER_06 7:08

Joining us for this conversation, Mr. Colin Henry, who is principal director of field services with the Rural Agricultural Development Authority. What is the acronym for that? You all know? Rada. And attorney at law and local urban farming enthusiast, Clyde Williams. Gentlemen, welcome to Resilience Naturally Podcast.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Blessed love. I have a brushing who says a rasta farmer, farmer, rasta. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Former lawyer, lawyer, farmer.

SPEAKER_06 7:44

So thank you for joining us for the conversation. I want to so alright, let's just unpack this whole big thing, right? Many people listening will say, yeah, you know, this quite alright. I don't have no space to grow nothing. So I will continue to be dependent on mine, the things I eat. And yeah, when things go up, then we caught my can, yeah. That means my nutrition that's hot some of the time. But in your case, uh Clyde, let me start with you.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

It's a big space, you have all right, you know, biggest relative. But I started with first it was all grass because I developed the property and I wasn't too sure, so it was all grass, and then I got up on man and I said, No, some cow. So and then I'm from a peasant kind of background. My family are peasant farmers, whole you know, holding in Vere. So we had acres of land, so the whole of our backyard had food in it. We'd go out, cut food. Which parish? This is Clarendon, Vale, down a Vere, right? In Clarendon, and from Hayes in Clarendon. So then I said, you know, let's start. So I just started to carve out little places in the backyard and just transform the whole place to move from two bed to three bed to four bed to five bed. But the most important point is whatever small space or large space or medium size, put it in some food. So yes, uh, I have some space, uh, most of my backyard is really for gardening and for permanent trees. Most of my backyard for persons who don't have a big backyard, any little space will do.

SPEAKER_06 9:29

Let me just ask this a quick question. Hold your thought, Rashidi. Um, I I wanted to just quickly ask Mr. Henry what do we mean by food security? What are we talking about?

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Food security, the importance of food security is to provide healthy food at reasonable prices so that persons can have a healthy diet in a sustainable way. And to food security, we are talking about producing food all year round. So we are talking about vegetables, tubers, we are talking about the protein mix animal and plant protein. But the importance is to produce in a sustainable way. Over the last three to four years, coming out of the Ivan hurricane period, we have seen what climate change has been having on food security in terms of we have extreme drought, extreme flooding, and then we have the costs of food in terms of the prices continue to rise. And most persons are unable to cope with the prices. So from where we sit as a ministry, we realize that diversifying food production in the country is important, and that is why we have developed a policy and looking at urban farming. So urban farming is part of our strategic program. So we are providing resources to persons to go into urban farming. So we are providing inputs like clean planting material, including seedling, seeds, potting mix, agrochemicals, and also train, training, the capacity building is also crucial so that these persons can understand the do's and don'ts, what to do and how to do it.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

We're gonna come back to how we're gonna access all of that great stuff that you say you have that you can supply um communities and householders. Rashini, you had wanted to.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Yes, thank you, Carol. Um, so actually, um, we've already segued into my question, which is that Mr. Williams, you are a farming enthusiast, you're of a peasant background, and I think that had a lot to do with your interest um to in getting into farming. But I'm thinking for the youth, the younger generation, especially those who were born and bred in the city, um, how can we really emphasize the importance of urban farming and kind of encourage for these younger demographics to get into urban farming? So, what do you see as that bridging the gap generationally that would promote for urban farming to be taken up more by the younger?

SPEAKER_02 12:08

Well, I just say a couple things initially. Uh that the first thing is that growing your own food is such a delightful experience. Uh and for urban planting, you may not get into tubers like the yam and them things they call tubers, right? Quoco. Vegetables the tubers, what are tubers?

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Tubas, sweet potato, yam, yam, cocoa, machine, cassava.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

So you may not necessarily cause them things they are seven months and nine months and those things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:34

So so And they need space, right?

SPEAKER_06 12:36

Yes, for the Simmons who we heard from on the roof, yes, in pots, everything you can think of, including the yams and the sweet potato and the this and that. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

So what what we have done, we have we have based on research and our experiment with the research stations and our demonstration plot, we have experimented with with different systems, different groom growing system. So like sweet potato, Irish potato can be grown into bags or tall 45-gallon drums by putting the different system in place in terms of you opening the spaces so that you can add water and fertilizer. So so there are a number of different systems that can be adapted in the urban space.

SPEAKER_08 13:25

Okay, young people.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

I wouldn't encourage them to think along tubers yet, seven months and the nine months. I would encourage them to get into what we call cash crops generally, tomatoes, you know, those things in in six weeks, in eight weeks, in the skellion, it's time, it's tomatoes, it's peppers, it's callaloo, it's pack choy, it's Indian spinach, it's kale, it's cabbage, it's lettuce. Those are the kinds of cucumbers, those are the kinds of things I'd encourage because in six weeks you start eating. So, like at my home.

SPEAKER_06 14:00

So it encourages you.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Absolutely. So, first you're gonna plant the things you eat and love to eat. So you can do a lot of lettuce and thing, you can start planting some some iceberg lettuce or anyone you think you can grow. You the tomatoes, you can plant it, tomatoes, you the cucumbers you can plant. And these kinds of cash crops, these turnover crops are simple to grow in relation to you know, need no whole heap or no nothing. Simple to grow. Most of them only need prime not primarily nitrogen, which is based on uh uh uh uh cow dung or or manure broken down, poultry manure. That's correct, right? So I would encourage them to first decide what do you like to eat in terms of veggies? Okay, two or three or four, start there. Don't start big, start small and grow it out. So start by those two first stuff, you know, probably a little cucumber and some tomatoes.

SPEAKER_06 14:48

So we want to start. Yes, we don't know that rather give us seedling and all these things. How did you start? How did I start?

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Well, the first thing I had to recognize that the soil I had at home was not sufficient to sustain. You know, I'm I'm in uh limestone countries, there's a lot of red soil. Uh so it does have some strengths for some like peppers and some other things, love that kind of soil, but some other things don't do well. So the first thing I acknowledge is that I had to kind of uh amend the soil by adding nutrients. So I started a compost. So I don't allow any green waste in my household to go to waste, none at all. And I did it what I did from country. We just dig two holes on the back. So I didn't even go no fancy, fancy nothing. I just went to the extreme back of my property uh and just dig two holes about three feet deep and about three feet wide. Start with one and then seal it with the guinea grass. So how I do the compass, I'd put in all the green vegetables, all the green waste in your garden, all the green waste in the kitchen, and all of the green waste, no oil in it at all, no butter, just the green waste. And then what we would do if we have beaten up soil somewhere after a layer of green waste, put some of the beaten-up soil in it, and so on, or dry out soil, and then another green of lace, and then another layer. And at the end of that process, we I seal it off with some guinea grass, and then I'd use green grey water, any of your green water, your wash bad pan, water carry through panic, kitchen carry go through a panic. So we'd use all the grey water to help to break it down because you need the water to help break it down and so forth, and then when that hole finished, when we seal it, because we're not more forgot to start seal, we seal it, we're going to the other hole. By the time the other hole full up gets to the first one yet to harvest that compass. Let me tell you something. If ever harvest comes up, yes. So how long? Wait, wait, how long? I would say two harvests a year, roughly, in terms of the compass. Can take a little while for the breakdown, six months. Six months for the breakdown for the collection on the time.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

So you're getting you when it when it breaks down for six months, you get it to a humus level, so it will release the nitrogen to the plants.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Yeah, the side spot. And some of the times, because a variety of things breaking out, you get some phosphorus as well. Some phosphorus. Not a lot. Phosphorus is important for routine and stem stability and those things. And then, of course, potassium, which is the other main nutrient, is what we call wood ash, is wood ash. So all the time farmers talk about potash. So that's in the cookshop, you get wood ash. It mustn't be coming from the coal import from America or farming. Our original coal, wood.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

So traditionally, the persons in the in the rural areas they would take the wood ash and add it to the plant. There you go. So you get the potassium out of the potassium help now with food setting and the quality fruits. So the taste of the sweet pepper, the taste of the strawberry in the garden. So the potassium enhances enhances all of that.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

And if you have peppers not that the peppers not fruiting or the tomato, not fruit, wood ash, but potassium.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

But just quickly, our youths today, they don't like to involve in the very hard world. They want to be creative. So we are promoting urban garden, but we are trying to make it sexy so that we can attract more young people. So we are just making it sexy together. That is why now we have brought in the vertical garden. Oh, and the vertical garden can set up in such a way that it can monitor on your phone, monitor the irrigation system, the fertigation system, and it also encourages you to stimulate their mind and they and and you bring up the kind of creativity out of it, and that will get greater interest. And we have been doing that.

SPEAKER_02 18:19

No, so look at this one. So the soil is not which I brought in. So we go up at um Jamaica Bauxite Institute, it's a seedling, they're a nursery up there, they must have soil up there, we go over over Hope Gardens and so on. We go down a guy, some Indian people have soil. In other words, I'm going around and find out these things. So I'm combining my compost, I get some additional soil from outside, a civil, I'll make a nice thing so the soil is so nice and soft and and so on. And so get all that and I get some wood ash as a standard thing. Every time we finish, we replenish the beds with some of that. Because we have neighbors who are cookers, you know, the people that cook shop. And the manure. If you're using foul manure, country people know you have to make it burnout good. Because if you're not burnout good, it'll kill all of the roots.

SPEAKER_06 19:06

So, what you mean by burnout?

SPEAKER_02 19:07

You have to make it expand.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

So when you take the when you take the when you take the poultry manure from the poultry house, you have to make it broken down for at least six months so that you can redu release the ammonium out of it, or else it will burn the plant.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Hence the burnout we call it.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

So that is why persons call it burnouts. If you just take it, if you just take it from the poultry house, then when it is releasing the ammonium gas, that will destroy the plant. So you have to make it broke down properly so that it moves, so that you can get the ready nitrogen to the plant.

SPEAKER_06 19:40

When I used to have things growing and have restarted, but when I used to, at least my brother used to, he would get the chicken manure from the farm.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

From the farm.

SPEAKER_06 19:51

In bags, and it was very dry. That would have been icy.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

Okay, so you want it to be very dry, dusty almost. And and and what is good about the broken down poultry manure, it helps to build back the structure of the cell, so it encouraged microbial activity. Okay. Increase aeration and and and also water holding capacity. So you help to bind the cell particles closely. And it helps with the breathing as well. Yeah, so aeration. That's what we call aeration. So when when last have you seen earthworms? Well, I see them in my so when you use when you use organic manure broken down poultry manure and the waste from the kitchen that encourages microbial activity. So you'll see the earthworms. The earthworm helps with aeration, movement, and moisture in the side.

SPEAKER_06 20:40

So earthworm is not something we fit.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

Earthworms is farmers' friends, they are a part of nature. They are part of our ecosystem, creating ecological balance in the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

And the Jamaicans to understand is there are places in the world where they buy earthworms. Then go shove feet, put them in the soil. So what you want to do is to make sure you have some bioorganic material to encourage the earthworms.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

But I want to just add too, in terms of the youth, what we are doing, we are doing what we call school garden in school. So we can get the youths to get the mindset from that early stage so that they can understand the importance of producing and food security and how they can help with building food resilience in the country.

SPEAKER_06 21:27

Even outside, uh Rashini and everyone, outside of school context, it's one of the reasons why encouraging urban communities to have community gardens because learning about where our food comes from, how it grows, and so on, can be for children living in town and cities and things. Certainly can be what they see as they are walking along with their mother and father to go shop or whatever. And especially if, as mothers and fathers, we are talking to them about what. They're seeing and how it's it's growing. So it don't have to only be at school.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

So it also facilitates knowledge sharing so that we we can continue from what our ancestors used to do in the past so that persons, the young person can understand the do's and don'ts and what is expected of them and how they can help to build resilience in the community. And also when you look at what is taking place with climate change, setting up green spaces in the community through urban garden also helps with carbon sink so that we can reduce the amount of heat uh uh carbon dioxide in the in the atmosphere.

SPEAKER_06 22:33

You're gonna have to make the connection, but we hand to Rashini.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

We've been exploring how to get the youth involved, um, and we've spoken about technology, which is very interesting, but let's kind of go back to nature-based solutions and think of communities in Jamaica where there aren't green spaces that you can access, marginalized lands, and how can we encourage urban farming at the community level then? As Carol mentioned, creating these community gardens. I think it's an initiative that not only rests with community members but in the public realm. So it's something that also requires us to look on our development policies and how we designate marginalized lands for the kinds of development that we see missing.

SPEAKER_02 23:23

It's catching. So when because it's sketching, like where I live, once I started and I shared some of the food with my neighbors, the neighbor two starts, the neighbor three starts as food.

SPEAKER_03 23:37

So in a couple of things, so but but yes, but you have space.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

What about communities?

SPEAKER_01 23:42

We did the open spaces, the open spaces. So what we have been doing, we have been partnering with private and government agencies, working with the communities. So we have been having a series of sessions across these communities, identifying the spaces and also providing support as to the way in terms of developing these green spaces.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

So the support that drag spaces and turn them into green spaces.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

So these spaces that we have identified, we are providing with support like water tanks, seeds, seedlings. And to strengthen this kind of operation, we have we have structured our system in such a way that we have what we call nursery houses within all the radar parish offices, and we are selling quality seedlings at reasonable prices on a consistent basis. And we are talking about leafy vegetables, we are talking about herbs, things that can be done in the in this. No, no, no. And just to add to just to add to quickly, we have our social services home economics department, but we're also training the persons how to use the vegetable, how to use the herbs in terms of value addition.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:56

So so it's a structured approach.

SPEAKER_03 24:58

That's very good information for our audience to remember, be mindful of. But I want to come back to something we were discussing actually before the session started, and it's soil health. In some of the marginalized public lands that we can redesign into these community gardens, um, is there good soil health and how can we promote good soil health? Because we want to make sure that we're eating quality foods as well. How can we encourage better soil health in lands where we have some bit of pollution? Um, especially in urban spaces.

SPEAKER_02 25:35

All right, so just that's gonna be a big, big challenge in the urban spaces because you have to approach the assumption that the soil is not as living as your first one. It has suffered, you can see it's beaten out and so on. Polluted polluted and so on. So so several things. You're going to have to have some fencing. You're gonna have to have some fencing to keep the dogs out, to keep the goats out, to keep the four people them, the four foot people them, not the two-foot people, to keep the four foot people them out. You're gonna have some fencing. You're gonna have to to irritate, you have to have to till up that first. So even when you're bringing in soil, as as you know, you have to till the soil that you're going to drop that new soil on. So you're gonna have to bring in that. So that's when I think Rada could come in and give a lot of assistance in that way.

SPEAKER_01 26:20

So what we have as a responsible agency, what we have been doing, we have been, as I mentioned before, we're trying to get the community to own the green spaces. So they have an interest in it, so we get that buy-in. What do you mean own? Own that means that they adapted and be a part of the green spaces. So the green spaces is just not left on it. Legally, right? No, not legally owned. We mean managing it and and in terms of to have the proper security, as you mentioned, in terms of keeping out stray animals so that persons are interested. So that is why we keep the community session to train them and educate them on the importance of having the green spaces. Having identified the green spaces, then we test the soil that is there. And if the soil is not suitable, we brought in additional soil and soil enhancers from an organic level so that we can encourage proper soil energy. So we go for container garden. Oh, we go for container garden, but but but if the space is there that we can till the soil and add additional siles and enhance the soil, we'll do that. But if the space is in such a way that it cannot enhance, we bring in the containerized garden, including vertical farming. And there are a number of different systems that we have been using. We have been using old tyres, we have been using plastic containers, old drums, and we cut them in such a way, puncture them and set them up in such a way with irrigation system. We have also identified spaces that we are also harnessing rainwater to help sustain the operation.

SPEAKER_06 27:48

Urban farming has to have an element of urban planning, attached, conscious urban planning. So we're not building on every pizza land. Yes, you have to meet housing needs, but you also need to meet food security issues, nutritional issues, health, uh, and community cohesion.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

So we have been approaching communities, especially the new schemes that come in on board. Identify the in charge of like the community organization, like the association, and we we invite them to the meeting and also training them. So we are getting a number of buying. As a matter of fact, the the the the the kind of support that person are seeking from us right now is tremendous. Men in Jamaica and especially in the Kingston metropolitan area are knocking on our door to assist with urban gardening.

SPEAKER_06 28:42

Do you find that um post, Melissa, that it shot people more people are trying to grow what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Exponentially exponentially since COVID-19.

SPEAKER_06 28:55

Ah, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

And what we have what we have been doing, so the backyard garden program that we are providing support, because we don't have enough to give everybody what we do, we set up a system that persons apply. So we put a quarter for each parish and persons apply. So it's a first come first in.

SPEAKER_06 29:15

So I want to come back a little bit to the concept of food security. There's also the issue of um of supply chain, which is why after COVID, because the COVID phenomenon was a supply chain phenomenon that drove up food prices. So the two things, yes, Jamaica is very susceptible to external shocks, right, in the supply chain. Um COVID made it so that you know shipping came to a halt and so on, and and that that's one of our vulnerabilities. So, how do we increase production so that we are not as dependent on the external sources is part of the notion of food security.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Just before, just before you you you answer that question, I want to just go back a little quick, one step back to the containers that you mentioned, right? Yeah. Because I didn't think we had flesh that out. Lots of times the the land is too vast and it's too dry and and it's gonna be costly to try. So that is where containers are more it's easier because it's the contain the soil and keep the soil in that container, nutrient uh with nutrients and so forth and so on. Typically, we call many of us gonna call that a raised bed, meaning that you raise it so you you're not on the floor of the soil anymore, you raise it and you contain it so it's easier to manage that soil. All of my backyard garden, I use raised beds, and I just use rocks and all kinds of things to just keep the soil within those. So let us say you have your baseline, and I might want to have at least probably two feet of really good rich soil on that baseline. I till up that baseline, get the the two feet of two or so feet of soil, and then I cordon it off. So I I'm from a rocky area, so I just get rocks and make a rock wall.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

So you build a perimeter around that. So you can use stones or you can use luggage to create the perimeter. So that is what he's calling wristbed. So it all depends on the situation. So it all depends on the situation and the materials that are available.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

So it's a old time called it, you know, rock a wall. I don't know if you know that people used to use the rocks to demarcate one property from the other property. So you just stack the rocks up, you can use pieces of board yourself. When I just started, I'm not like you. When I just started that block me use, come just done build. So I just pull some block. So if you look at my baggard initially, set a foot the first six or eight bits of block, regular concrete block, until I just evolve out and we graduate and we move forward and so on. So start with what you have. If a block alone you have, start with the block, it can keep the soil inside here. Kind of way. If a pan alone you have, board the bottom of the pan and start with the pan.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

And just to add that we have tailor-made our training sessions for urban gardeners, simple and easy, and we have information to train everyone. So all persons who are interested in urban garden, you can contact the radar parishes and we are island wide.

unknown 32:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

And we provide training. We we come evening in the afternoon because sometimes the community groups would come in, would call us because you know there's a lot of people working and sometimes they have the meeting in the evening. We'll attend those meetings and we'll provide the training, and we also have a radar library and double dot Rada.jovi.jm, you can access the library and get technical information there.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

I don't want to miss what Carla does about the question of the continued production, which is the the if if something happens in the world, we can well seeding is very important. That's a big part of it. So there are lots of veggies that once you start growing, you should start harvesting seeds. So you make the veggie grow past where it begins to flower and produce seed, then you get those seeds out, nice, any nice jam jar that you can seal, you put this, make it dry, seed it in the jam jar, lock it so it don't have the moisture going cut in it and so on colour loop, pepper, uh, and you stick that in your fridge. I mean, I have some peppers now. I'm not lying to you. I harvest some peppers, some scotchy. Oh, some scotchy, right? And I took to my mother and her, you know, the generation who grow me. And she tell me yesterday, she said, Junior, I take four dozen for myself, may get two dozen to Mary, two dozen, and I'm saying, that's how much pepper. Those peppers came from seeds that I planted ten years ago.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

So so so the point that you raise about the food security coming out of COVID, we have we have bolstered our our system in terms of rather than just focusing on the commercial farming, we have also strengthened our support for urban and backyard farming by providing inputs so that person can produce and also help to reduce the dependence on imported from the city.

SPEAKER_08 34:15

So let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

Before you come in, I want to say something. So you have also raised a point in terms of us producing seed. So we have the Bodles Research Station that is where we have our germplasm in terms of storing seeds for future use. So once we are coming under internal shocks and our supply external, sorry, external shocks and our supply chains disrupted, we have a system in place to store your banking seeds. So we have a seed bank.

SPEAKER_02 34:49

So you can have a seed bank or a seed fridge at home. So my fridge, I'm telling you, when you go, you have to put the jar in the fridge, keep it cool so the seeds don't um degenerate, degree.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

Yeah, because the eat will destroy the viability of the seed.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

I see. So the nutrients are in the seed to produce initial line. Whoops. And then you start so you have to put fertilizer.

SPEAKER_06 35:06

The seeds that we're buying pre-packaged and commercially available, um what is it that makes those because they're not in the fridge, them in the supermarket or wherever, the hardware store, wherever we get them.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

They use a vacuum system to seal those seeds.

SPEAKER_06 35:24

And once you open it and you've used some of the seeds and you haven't used it all.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

Once you open it, then you're then seal it and put it in the fridge to keep it cool. Gotcha. But if you're if you keep it in heat, it is going to affect the viability. And then it you will have what we call poor germination.

SPEAKER_08 35:40

And then the food won't nine.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

So you might sow two seedlings trees, and you just get sparse germination in the trees. Okay. So are we trained persons in terms of how to store seed, how to sow the seed, and how to nurture the seedlings because nurture and results of very important.

SPEAKER_02 35:58

So that you get four to six weeks of that life.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yeah, just like how you are nurturing the children, you have to nurture the seeds. We're going to come back to that.

SPEAKER_03 36:05

We've touched on how technology can make this a more appealing venture for the youth and also making it um sexy through the vertical gardens. But something I want us to explore that will also make it sexy is the creation of job opportunities, which I know is something that especially younger generations, um, especially those living in rural communities, transitioning to urban economies. How can we drive interest based on this?

SPEAKER_06 36:38

So what Rashini is saying is from let's in the frame called urban farming, what are the potential livelihoods? Because you know, only can grow, you know, you can do other things that support the growings. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

So what might some of those be? A number a number of initiatives, a number of economic initiatives coming out of this urban garden. So you have persons who are providing training, persons creating containerized gardening system using local materials, persons who are persons who are providing the irrigation and the water structured system in terms of harvesting the water and this and distributing. So we have also persons at the community level now who are who are collecting the buying the urban produce and distributing it to other communities.

SPEAKER_08 37:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

What is also important to in terms of the training. So you have lead farmers or lead gardeners within the community that are also providing training to the person. And in terms of the the the one of the most sustainable parts of this is producing the seedlings. So we have a lot of small nursery producers that are producing the clean seedling. We have a lot of youth right now who are doing that, and we are training them to ensure that they are proficient in producing quality seedlings.

SPEAKER_03 37:56

I think an opportunity as well is for um maybe persons who are interested in setting up um these home gardens. Yes, yes, that's also another or yeah, right, right. Um can design it and have the expertise to probably utilize our team. So that's another good job of job opportunity there. Right.

SPEAKER_06 38:17

And you can also focus on composting. And composting. I mean, you and I buy from people who sell composting.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

So that can also help to to to repel insects. Insects. So it's a number of different opportunities that are in in this urban farming. For livelihoods.

SPEAKER_06 38:43

People think we're talking about urban farming just in terms of having food, what you eat, growing what you eat. We're also talking, we're talking about health and improving our health because the quality of what we're eating is improved when we do it ourselves. So we're talking about health. Building a city around the and we're but we're talking about the human relationship that happens when I share across the fence. And you come with the peppers that you reap, and I carry my lettuce them that I reap.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

So I was saying that the a part of the urban garden to is to strengthen social cohesion in the community. But what we are promoting, because over there is personal just think urban garden is just doing something until backyard to just produce it to food. We are also looking at urban garden as a business. We have some niche crop that we are targeting and promoting as a part of the urban garden as a business. So that is why we say from where we sit as a technical agency, is to ensure that we educate the person that doing urban garden. So depending on where you are, then you select the niche crop accordingly so that you can properly go it. Sure. And it'd be and you just don't just go it at the end of the year, you see something from it.

SPEAKER_06 40:06

Right. I want to wait, wait, hold on, Lady. I want to come to Rashini to ask so this podcast is a production of, as we said at the start, the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica. And in particular, a project which the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica is implementing, which is the Jamaica, the Jamaica Urban Solutions for the Environment. Basically, we are promoting greater application of what's known as nature-based solutions. I want to ask Rashini what does this have to do with nature-based solutions, this business of urban farming?

SPEAKER_03 40:47

There is a connection because it involves dealing with vegetation and other natural elements such as rocks and stones within these garden spaces, which inherently makes it a nature-based solution to a problem we face in urban settings, which is food food insufficiency. And that can be scaled to a national level. And so that's what makes it a nature-based solution inherently. And then also when we talk about green jobs or the spin-off of job creation from these solutions, we're also fitting right into that criteria as well. A point we need to establish about the benefits of uh nature-based solutions is the human and social well-being factors, um, which I think have been coming out that social cohesion, um, better quality diets, which would lead to less spending on healthcare, etc., etc. And then we can name them. But the tone of this discussion has been old time something come back again. And I just want to emphasize that this fancy term of nature-based solution, simply put, it is old time something come back again. It's putting back in place what we used to do and what worked. We need not forsake nature. So we need to bring back the value of nature and our understanding of how we fit in with true nature around us.

SPEAKER_02 42:22

Youngsters listening, probably not youngsters necessarily, a little older. Um, you know, super cat vineyards, vineyards. Vineyard style, wicked and wicked and wild. Yes, yes, because it is a comical vineyard cell, vineyard cell, wicked and wicked and wild.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yes, Missy okro and dance with sweet carrot, the potato, and missing yum, and something like that. But at the point I want to bring to you, if you if you notice in Kingston, Metropolitan and communities, most of the restaurants now are serving green juices. Yes. And a lot of persons are also buying these green juices. So setting up your urban garden, this will also help you to produce your own green juice.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

I can I can attest to that. I am a religious green juice drinker. Um but I find that the weekly shopping for these various greens is quite expensive. So I myself am thinking about doing my own.

SPEAKER_06 43:23

But coming to the rescue have been these farmers' markets. One of the outcomes of COVID is that we we began to have farmers coming to the directly to the householder, right? Or at least in a central place in the community. So these farmers' markets have now become a staple in uh in the corporate area. So we checked out one recently and we spoke to a few people. We asked them simple question Do you grow any of what you eat? And so let's hear what they had to say. Do you grow some of what you eat? Yes. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

Always have, or this is a new new thing you started. Exactly. I mean, a man of a group in the in the yard. Yes. And it's a big space or a small space? It's a big space. Over an acre. Wow. I mean, I just have things scattered through. You're a big time farmer.

SPEAKER_06 44:19

More like my husband. Okay. And it's vegetables that you're growing?

SPEAKER_05 44:25

We have we have some um herbs too. Okay. We have pineapple. We have banana, have ginger. Wow. I have tangerine. Uh the note make tree side cooking. All kinds of things. Your stall here today? Uh no, not enough for that for a stall first time. I'm coming here visiting. I'm just visiting town with my aunt.

SPEAKER_06 44:48

Okay, so you're doing your growing for your own consumption.

SPEAKER_07 44:51

For my own consumption, yeah. How wonderful. Thank you for talking to me. You're welcome. No, that's really I live in a town now at the end of the year. In a small one. I've been clearing a year, but the soil don't seem to be that good. Although things spring up in pots like pepper and right, because you can do quite a lot with in pots. In pots, yeah. There are a few of those that don't spring up by themselves. Okay. I think. Oh. Every melon and melon and pumpkin. Yeah, just I think when they throw out the water, the seeds.

SPEAKER_06 45:31

Ever thought to really kind of try and grow some more?

SPEAKER_07 45:34

Yeah, man, we have cleared a little clear. Yeah, yeah. But don't do the soil readily, some after work. Okay. Alright. Well, good luck. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 45:49

Thank you so much. Alright, take care. And so that you've you've heard from two people there. One, yes, I grow. And another, I live in a townhouse. I have no space. And thinking about it, I clear a little piece of the space, but it's small. So there are different we can grow regardless of what space we have, I think is one of the messages we want to leave with listeners. So we spoke with uh Carrie Ann Gray.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Carol?

SPEAKER_06 46:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 46:20

Yes, you also spoke with Kerri Ann Gray from Jamaica Tower Farms Limited. So let us hear what she has to say.

SPEAKER_06 46:28

We want to talk about tower farming and what it is that Jamaica Tower Farms offers for our all our considerations. So thank you so much for joining us, Terry Ann.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

Lovely to be here. I am happy to discuss using limited space because that is no longer an excuse for us because we have the answer for you or the solution. So currently our farm is on a quarter acre of property, and we're only using half of that quarter acre. So it's really just one eighth that we have 100 towers on. Right? And we're able to grow 4,400 plants at once. And the the cap the capacity can be increased by three, but originally we had um spaced out the towers to accommodate the growth of scotch bonnet um pepper plants, which of course you know get big. But now that we don't do that much, we do most leafy greens, um, skel and um lettuce, etc., and herbs, we can fill that space and increase the capacity.

SPEAKER_06 47:42

All right. So I'm a whole householder and I'm listening to this uh conversation, and I'm saying, yeah, but what I have is a little uh balcony. Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:53

Okay. So one tower takes up takes up a three by three foot space, and having a balcony and fitting that tower on the balcony is perfect. As long as you have um access to sunlight, then you're good. So you could put a one tower and you can grow anywhere between 20 plants to 52 plants in just that square meter.

SPEAKER_06 48:14

And you can do a variety of plants because the way the tower is constructed, um, it's got pockets going upright. Yes, and uh, and therefore each of those pockets, it has how many pockets?

SPEAKER_04 48:29

So so one layer or one pot holds four plants, okay, and it is is stacked um five, seven, nine, eleven, or thirteen. So that's why you're able to grow 20 plants at five pots, and if you want to go up to 13 pots, that's 52 plants, right? Um, so the variety is is actually endless. You can grow over 200 varieties of crops on it. So we're talking about all the lettuce varieties, um, scotch bonnet, um, we're talking about sweet pepper, eggplant, tomato, tomato.

SPEAKER_06 49:04

I see cabbage.

SPEAKER_04 49:06

Cabbage, yes.

SPEAKER_06 49:06

I see patch on it.

SPEAKER_04 49:08

Yes, man. So basil, cilantro, parsley. So all those things that we're importing, you can actually grow in your own space and you know what you're growing, you know what you're feeding it, um, in terms of pesticidal treatment. We use organic treatment and it works and it is working for us. So you can also use that. And if you're, I mean, on a balcony or on a rooftop, you know, you're you're not you're not susceptible to soil-borne um pests. So so it's you know, you can eliminate that out of it. So I mean, it can work.

SPEAKER_06 49:41

Awesome. And so it's it's run on electricity, yeah. Right? I don't have solar. Okay. So it's JPS we're going to be running it on. How costly is the running up the operation of it?

SPEAKER_04 49:55

So you're you're only using $202 um of electricity for the month. Really? So let's compare it to a light bulb, right? It's it's on 4.8 hours each day, right? Because it's three minutes on, 12 minutes on, because this vertical farming is called aeroponics. Um, similar to hydroponics, aeroponics, um, of course, it's vertical and the pump is not on continuously. So there's a balance of water and air that allows the optimum growth of the plant with the nutrients in the water. So you don't have to worry about electricity. That's just $202 for the month.

SPEAKER_06 50:36

Very basically, then, the technology is water at the water at the base or the reservoir.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Um, there's a pump that sits at the bottom and it pushes the water to the top, and then the it trickles down and the roots absorb the water. So the water is basically recycled, so they're using 90% less water than traditional farming.

SPEAKER_06 50:58

I see because it's a circular, it's a circular system. Correct. Right. Awesome. This is just absolutely wonderful. That was Carrie Ann Gray of Jamaica Tower Farms Limited. How do we find radar to get what you you say you have to offer?

SPEAKER_01 51:13

From where we sit at radar, we want persons to get into what we call eat what you grow, grow what you eat. So you utilize the spaces that you have at home and rather willing and ready to help you design your garden. So you need to plan your garden, you need to look on the diet, and also you have that information to guide the type of garden that you are going to you are going to get involved.

SPEAKER_06 51:39

So if I call you, how long does it take an officer to come to where I live?

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Depending on where you are. We have over 250 agricultural extension personnel strategically located throughout the entire country.

SPEAKER_06 51:50

So is it the head office that we must call?

SPEAKER_01 51:53

We have a parish office at all of the parishes, and we have what we call area offices within the communities, and we have the head office. So depending on depending on where you are, just call Rada 188 Ax Rada. So 188 R S A S K. Radha. R A D. R A D A. R D A. R A D A. So go again. 188 R A S K R A D A.

SPEAKER_06 52:20

We thank Clyde Williams, Attorney at Law, but uh intrepid and enthusiastic urban household farmer, and we also have Mr. Colin Henry, who is Principal Director of Field Services and Operations at the Rural Agricultural Development Authority, aka Radha. Thank you both, beloved friends, uh, for coming and sharing in the way that you have and making this a really interesting and stimulating conversation. Blessed Lord. Yes, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 52:49

You can keep up with the Resilience Naturally Podcast and everything the J Us Project and the EFJ are doing by following the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica on social media. On Facebook and LinkedIn, just search for the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica and on Instagram it's the that's T H E underscore EFJ. And you can also visit our website at www.efj.org.jm. Until next time, I'm Rashini Clark Randall. And I'm Carol Narcisson. Take care.