Resilience... Naturally!
Resilience... Naturally! is a digital learning podcast that explores the intersection of gender, climate action, and nature-based solutions in Jamaica and the Caribbean. Through engaging conversations with local and diaspora experts, policymakers, women-led and youth-led organizations, the show translates research, policy, and lived experience into practical insights. The series aims to build awareness, confidence, and readiness among stakeholders, while creating a publicly accessible knowledge resource that informs action, strengthens capacity, and inspires collaboration for gender-responsive, sustainable climate solutions.
This podcast is produced under the Jamaica Urban Solutions for the Environment Project being implemented by the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica, with funding support from Global Affairs Canada.
Resilience... Naturally!
Nature-Based Solutions Made Simple
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This episode introduces the concept of Nature-based solutions (NbS). It explores practical, everyday examples in Jamaica and globally, such as trees reducing urban heat, mangroves protecting coastlines, and green spaces supporting water management. The conversation aims to make NbS relatable and accessible to a broad audience.
Produced by the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica with funding support from Global Affairs Canada.
This podcast was recorded at Harry J Studio, Kingston, Jamaica.
Producer: Reneiquca Walker-McKnight
Hello and welcome to another episode of the Resilience Naturally Podcast. This podcast is produced by the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica as part of the Jamaica Urban Solutions for the Environment or J Us Project. My name is Carol Narsi, and I'm the gender and social inclusion specialist with the J Use Project.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Martina Clark Randall, the nature-based climate solutions specialist with the J Use Project. Over the next few weeks, we'll be taking you on a journey to explore issues surrounding how climate change, climate action, and gender intersects, and how working closely with nature can help us solve some of the problems we're facing.
SPEAKER_06And so in this week's show, we're breaking down everything nature-based solutions because we are using that term and we want to make sure that everyone understands exactly what we're talking about, what these nature-based solutions are, how they can help us solve some of our climate-related, weather-related issues in Jamaica. We all know it's getting hotter. We all know it's we're flooding at the slightest rain. So how can what we're calling nature-based solutions can they help with these kinds of issues in an urban setting? These are some of the things we're going to be talking about.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and so here to help us to go through the discussion are Max Sarkerbawk. He's an urban resilience expert on the nature-based platform. So I will let him do his introductions as well. And uh Miss Uwe Best, a member of Young EcoShape, an international network of young professionals who are in the field of nature-based solutions.
SPEAKER_06Welcome to the podcast, Uwe and Max.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Thanks for having us.
SPEAKER_06Yes, we are thrilled to have you. So, Uwe, I'm gonna start with you. Tell us a little bit about your background and in particular your work in the area of nature-based solutions.
SPEAKER_01So much for having me. Um, my name is Uve Best, and maybe to break a bit of the formality, I'm also uh from Guyana, Guyana, as we call it, uh, and I have a background in coastal engineering and uh climate resilience. And um, for the past, I think, uh 10 years, I've been delving a lot more into the use of nature-based solutions, nature-based adaptation or nature-based engineering approaches within the work that I do. And as you mentioned, I'm part of the Young EcoShape. But uh, for I think over the last 13 years, I've been working in the Caribbean and also within South America, where a lot of my work focuses on the design of solutions for low-lying coastlines, for uh transport corridors, as well as for wetland systems, uh, places where the boundary between land and water is constantly shifting. And it's within that capacity that I now work with a company in the Netherlands called Haskoning, which is part of the larger EcoShape network. And it allows me to be able to uh collaborate on such projects where at least we work alongside the engineering systems to improve the larger resilience of the areas that we do work in. And I'm really happy to be a part of this uh conversation because many of the challenges we've been uh we've been working on in places like Guyana, in Suriname, also in Brazil, uh connect closely with the issues that Jamaica is also tackling.
SPEAKER_06Very, very important work. And Max, same question to you, a little bit about yourself and your work in this field. And what exactly, as you're speaking, Max, what are we talking about when we say nature-based solutions?
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm uh Max Zagebag, but uh you can just call me Max. And I've been working as an urbanist for the past eight years. And during my studies, I actually um well, it's about urban design, but I was always very attracted to um making the concept of urban design more tangible, and also with the climate changing, and especially uh the experience we have in the Netherlands around flooding, dive into how to um expand on that and actually make things work. So during my master thesis, uh I came in contact with a professor who was uh part of EcoShape as well. And uh EcoShape is a big consortium that we have of all different engineering companies in the Netherlands, but also universities, um, but also construction uh companies. And with the consortium, we actually try to be pre-competitive. So instead of challenging each other in the market, we um try to collaborate on things and see how we can actually make things work and uh have real projects with our with the main goal of making uh use of building with nature or nature-based solutions. Um so for the past years I've been working on different uh projects, um mostly in urban areas, for example, on the north coast of Java and Samaran, um where actually my grandmother is from and was born, so I'm half Indonesian. But I also lived in the Dutch Caribbean uh in Curso, and I worked on Bonaire, um, which is also the Dutch Caribbean, which is a smaller island. And um, yeah, some of the problems might be uh comparable to the ones you have in Jamaica as well.
SPEAKER_06And we know that small island developing states globally are disproportionately being impacted by the negative effects of climate change. Can you say a bit about what are we, what exactly are we talking about when we say nature-based solutions?
SPEAKER_00When saying nature-based solutions, it's actually a very wide term. But um, the easiest way for me to put it is making use of natural processes or the power of nature as a benefit for your problem, which is most likely climate-related. I think that's for me the easiest way uh to put it like that.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, thank you. And that's how I normally try to simplify it as well. So for the audience, so it's using natural processes systems. Um, we could break it down, we could say that we're using vegetation, rocks, plants to basically harness the power of nature to solve problems that we're facing in the areas we reside. And so, Max, in your introduction, you mentioned a bit about your work in urban design, and that's actually quite an interesting point because there is a linkage between urban design in its tangible form and nature-based climate solutions. So, can you kind of explore what that linkage is? So, how is or how are nature-based climate solutions making urban design and a tangible element of development?
SPEAKER_00So I think um what we see a lot, especially in um countries that urbanize very rapidly, um there is an urban sprawl which um where housing is developed in areas that are quite prone to flooding, for example. And um, I think by using nature-based solutions or building with nature, you have to think on the system as a whole. And to get an understanding of all these systems together is the I think one of the most important things to understand um where we are situated and what's causing the damage. So, for example, what we see a lot is that when urban sprawl is just everywhere, some floodways that are naturally there get blocked. But then the problem we see is there's flooding. But if you turn it the other way around, nature was there first. So actually, we are blocking the pathway or the natural flow. So that's also the area where you can have an impact by restoring or even enhancing the natural systems by um implementing a nature-based solution or thinking of the use of nature-based solutions in combination with other solutions.
SPEAKER_06So um, Ube-based, you're from Guyana. Much of Guyana is below sea level, and you share that in common with the Netherlands, which also has uh that those issues. So, talk to us a little bit about what kinds of nature-based solutions are possible to respond to, let's take the issue of flooding.
SPEAKER_01Definitely, Guyana is well below sea level and shows the Netherlands. And I think um it's one of the main reasons why I even chose the field of coastal engineering. Uh and through the work of EcoShape, the the shift has has been over the last decade from seeing uh nature as a constraint to really seeing it as an asset. And I think in when you talk about the application of nature-based solutions or even nature-based climate solutions, it comes first from an understanding of the system. Being able to understand the natural processes that govern those particular systems and the interconnectivity between the very high land areas to the low coastal extremes is also quite vital. And once you have that knowledge, it then really guides you whether it is the application of mangrove rehabilitation, of the use of uh very permeable structures to protect coastlands and also to allow for the stabilization of coastlines uh that allow for mangroves to grow, salt marshes to grow. And that's something that I have been working with the Ministry of Public Works in Guyana for many, many years. Within the urban context, like Max mentioned, um, solutions are so diverse from being able to aim towards flood protection, whether it's the bioswales or wetland restoration or wetland management, or being able to have specific areas where you either divert or manage the particular flow in certain areas or you create more storage in uh in an environment.
SPEAKER_06So let me um Uve, Uve, if I could just um stop you a minute. Yeah. So one of the things with the podcast is just helping people just understand the terms. Yeah, and you've used the term um bioswales just now. What is a bioswale? What does it look like?
SPEAKER_00A bioswale is more in a way that um by using a more permeable structure, instead of using the flow speed, you slow it down, but then the soil or the plants or everything that you add to it becomes a sponge. And it actually comes with more benefits to it as well. So if designed properly, um you could say, for example, uh a park could be the area to retain the water. Um you can make use of the gullies and bioswills to get the water to there, store it for a while, hold it, and then it becomes a space that can add to the biodiversity that can be enjoyed for relaxation, that um in a way becomes a destination or a place in itself. And I think that's the key concept of building with nature is understanding all these systems, so uh the natural system, but also the urban system and the technological system, and then combining those things layered and try to add all the benefits together into a place.
SPEAKER_02Thank you for that, Max. Um, I love that definition. Uh I especially want to reflect on something you said, which is that traditionally we think of flooding events as okay, they go into the concrete gullies, and we're just trying to get rid of as much as possible as quickly as possible. Um but in thinking of water, for example, as an asset, then we're thinking of how do we harness the water, how do we store it for a while. Um, and so here comes a nature-based climate solution. So there is a shift in the way that we think of nature as well, um, that will help us to kind of identify nature-based climate solutions that are applicable to the problems that we're facing. So, with that, I we've touched on biosed whales. We heard about wetlands, which is a naturally existing type of nature-based solution. But if we could broaden the minds of the listeners, what are some of the types of nature-based climate solutions that if I want to go and do my research or if I'm having a problem, whether it be heat stress, um, drought, flooding, I want to know what are some of the types of nature-based climate solutions that I could think of that could help me to face my issues more efficiently.
SPEAKER_00Um well, I I think the the power of uh of this is that there's not one solution that fits all, but it's uh an approach and a system thinking that you can apply to all situations. But for example, one that was quite particular. Um in Bonaire a couple of years ago, there was a big sediment plume uh as a result of rainfall, and it came along uh down along the waterways, and the result was that all the soil was spilled out on the coral reefs. And well, that is a problem because in Bonaire, especially uh the coral reefs are one of their most valuable assets also in terms of tourism. So when analyzing the system, like we have a look at where does the water come from and why is the soil um coming down, and we want to uh fix or protect the coral actually. So analyzing the system, we found different um problems causing it. So, first of all, there was as I mentioned before, uh there were buildings in the waterway. But if you go higher and higher upstream, one of the main problems causing it was actually goats and donkeys that roam around and they eat all the plants. So if you think on the problem, um the sediment and protecting the coral, you end up with goats and donkeys grazing and eating all the all the plants. So the nature-based solution in this case, you could think of we have to capture the sediment and we have to build, I don't know, all kinds of sediment traps. But it even might be as simple as fencing uh a certain area, planting trees that can hold the soil, and then surrounding them by bushes that might uh deter the goats and the donkeys. So you can end up with a completely different solution because you analyze the problem and come up with oh, but this is actually the source, and there's multiple sources of the problem.
SPEAKER_06So let's imagine a little bit. Um we have an urban setting, a town. Uh, our idea of development is very concrete focused. So we are building a lot of concrete structures and they're going higher and higher. We are um we are paving the parking areas, um, so we have more parking areas, more streets that are hard surfaces. Um, and our drainage and other structures are becoming overwhelmed. What can nature-based solutions do for us in terms of retrofitting that space um so that we have less challenges as a result of the way we are developing the space?
SPEAKER_00It can be quite challenging because when civilization or an um urban area is is growing quite fast, sometimes it's hard to keep up with um, like you said, the growth of the uh the population and it puts a stress on the system. So I think it starts with understanding that and preferably um there's a governmental body that takes note of that and comes with a a vision or a strategy to that. Oftentimes it's not. Um that's that's not the case. Then I would say um analyze what we have destroyed by building all those um buildings. Can we somehow get back to the more original system and the natural elements that were already there in in ways of getting rid of the water in the urban areas? Are there places that are now more communal, um like a square or something like that, that we can think of designing in a different way and implementing more natural assets, retain water, but also add green and biodiversity that also might have the benefit of reducing heat stress, um, add more shade, uh, prevent the direct sun onto the concrete, because that all adds up.
SPEAKER_02And I think that is bringing out the human element of why nature-based climate solutions is more than just a concept, but also an approach to changing the way we do development.
SPEAKER_06Uwe and Max, each of you, what are some of the so let's say that we've we've found natural um methods of reducing flooding, retaining um water for other purposes. We've found ways to add more green in the in the urban space, um, whether that is to buildings, to roofs, um, small parks, um designed with with the intention to have an effect on climate, right? So let's say we've done all of those things. What are some of what's being called the co-benefits of designing spaces with more natural features and systems uh as part of the design? Let me start with Uve.
SPEAKER_01Being able to implement these nature-based solutions, you they in a nutshell, they deliver many benefits for a single investment. So you get climate resilience, less flooding, less heat, more coastal buffering, you get uh economic gains, especially in um sectors where tourism and forestry really depend on healthy ecosystems. But as you mentioned, it's really you also get tangible social and health benefits from cleaner air, uh, shaded public places, and also access to green spaces. It really improves the health of a community. Um, but a more tangible offer that's a bit more sustainable is that they also create job or job opportunities because, like you said, they're community-based. And you, if you think of restoration, monitoring, maintenance, uh, they all create tangible forms of employment for really communities. And we've done this on so many projects uh where most of the times, because of the the scale of the nature-based solutions, um, it's best done by the communities, by the people. Of course, it can be organized elsewhere, but the tangible parts of it um really come from the communities themselves. So uh the nature-based solutions don't just protect the yeah, the infrastructure. I think they really strengthen the livelihoods, uh support economic growth, and improve the quality of life.
SPEAKER_02So Thank you, Uwe. I just want to interject there actually to ask a follow-up question. So I am an everyday Jamaican. I am not in the technical field. I don't necessarily understand what you mean by biodiversity, biomimicry, urban design, all of that. But I hear this podcast and I'm thinking, okay, how can I be a part of this movement? So what are some simple everyday ways for the average Jamaican to get in? How can we be involved in creating or designing nature-based climate solutions even at the household level?
SPEAKER_06Max, you want to take that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, sure. Um well I would love to go to Jamaica someday to see how the people live there. So I'm I'm trying to use my imagination in the context that I do know. Yes, yes. Um, but for example, in the Netherlands, um we have uh a lot of people, they really want to have a backyard. Um because well, being outside in the sun in the land doesn't happen that often. So if you have a chance, you want to go out to your own backyard. But the people they also really do not want to get rid of the weeds and everything. So what they do um they pave the entire backyard and they put the chairs and everything so that you can enjoy the sun. However, that becomes very hard. Um so then we have a governance body for example the municipality, and they say, okay, if you take out all of your pavement or half of your pavement, we can collect the pavement for free and we give you maybe I don't know some benefit or something. Um that's some people take out some some pavement tiles or anything. And then maybe uh they have a percentage of their uh backyard that is free of pavement. So what happens then is that the rain that falls down doesn't drain in the gullies or the the drainage system, but it actually gets absorbed in the grass. If you have one backyard, nothing really happens to a bit more. But if you can convince hundreds or thousands of households to do that, then all of a sudden your entire city becomes a sponge.
SPEAKER_06So reducing maintenance cost of the built-in infrastructure that we have, like like drains, etc. But there's also the fat Rashini that a lot of our water um used to be groundwater sources.
SPEAKER_02But Carol, before you even go there, um what tends to happen when we have flooding events is that even if we were to have groundwater being recharged, being that the water is able to soak through into our um underground wells and so it's polluted. So then another benefit that we can highlight from nature-based climate solutions is that we we actually have filtration as a benefit.
SPEAKER_06So how how do how does the design of the of the nature-based solution help with filtering the water as it before it percolates or as it is going down into the ground?
SPEAKER_02Alright, so Uve, I will I will allow you to get into the the technicalities of it, but essentially it's the layering of the different types of materials. So you can have stones that probably do an initial gross filtering, then fine sand at another layer. So then you're actually trapping some of those pollutants that would otherwise just get right in. But in terms of the technical design in a simple way, Uve, can you take that one?
SPEAKER_01You actually did a really good job of it. So it is essentially just that the filtering layers from from the different types of soils, and that's how it works in nature. And the bioswells that you asked earlier on, it's also the same way in in which the bioswell functions. So it collects the water, you have these permeable layers of different soils, which acts to filter the pollutants. Um, and then you're able to literally uh store and drain that unpolluted or less polluted water safely. Uh, so it really does work as simple as that.
SPEAKER_02So that is gonna lead me right into a question I had for you, which is on the matter of biosphilles, that's a very good example of a hybrid, um, more engineered type of nature-based solution. But what is the case really? Is it a more viable approach than using gray infrastructure to deal with, for example, flood management? By gray infrastructure, you mean my bad. So by gray infrastructure, I mean those concrete gullies, those hard um surfaces that we tend to use in a traditional sense. So a part of this is, I mean, if if I was at the high level in the government trying to make a decision as to whether or not to pursue this as a development initiative, I would be thinking dollars and cents. So is it a viable approach to either replace our systems, which I mean that would be tricky, but at least the complement to these great infrastructure is it viable?
SPEAKER_01It is quite viable to implement them on a large scale. But I think what is important is always looking again at the system. And as Max mentioned, the bias will serve a purpose, they really manage the runoff and have co-benefits of treating it, etc. But uh, if you have yeah, simply a large discharge expected, then you look for a different type of solution. Um, in the projects that I've worked on, the biosols have been used as a complementary solution, uh depending on the discharge expected, but you always have to start with understanding that local context. And uh it's been applied on a large scale in many countries. Um, and of course, it's not easy to automatically change all of the drainage systems or to convert them into it, but where you have the availability of space, and perhaps you're retrofitting an area uh or you're creating completely new spaces, uh, it gives the opportunity to at least have uh climate resilience solution built in.
SPEAKER_05So this is a good uh segue to our interview that we had with Ms. Susan Hamilton, managing director of Abilities Foundation, because that's an example of an institution retrofitting an area in order to solve uh a problem, in their case, flooding, and how they applied nature-based solutions. Let's give a listen.
SPEAKER_06Uh, Island City Lab uh has been in partnership with the Abilities Foundation, seeking to transform the school's campus into what they describe as a living lab, demonstrating the effects and importance and practical value of nature-based interventions to solve climate impacts and create co-benefits for the students, the staff, and the broader community. And so we're very happy to be able to talk a little bit with Susan Hamilton, managing director of Abilities Foundation, to find out just what difference the nature-based solutions that have been applied on their school campus have been making. Thank you so much for joining us for this podcast, Ms. Hamilton.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for having me, Carol.
SPEAKER_06Tell us a bit about Abilities Foundation.
SPEAKER_03Okay. So, Abilities Foundation, our primary objective is to provide vocational, quality vocational training for persons with disabilities, aged 17 and up. We are a very unique institution because we serve all disabilities. So in any class, you will find an autistic student, a blind student, a student with neurodivergent um characteristics, deaf students. And so we have over the years partnered with Heart NSTA Trust, and the Ministry of Labor and Social Security is our primary stakeholder.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_03And um, we of course partner as well with the Ministry of Education, Youth and Information through their special ed unit.
SPEAKER_06Right. And when was Abilities uh founded? When was it formed?
SPEAKER_03October 5th, 1992. So we have been around for quite a while.
SPEAKER_06You are a demonstration site now for what um we mean by nature-based solutions and what some of those solutions look like. And so tell us uh about what was the the tell us about the problem that you were experiencing and what the nature-based solutions um are that were introduced.
SPEAKER_03You know, with with development comes challenges, and so um we discovered that after the renovations to the Constant Spring Thoroughfare, we were being heavily inundated um when there was heavy rainfall. And the island city labs just saw the flooding and they approached us and said they would really like to support, you know, us, you know, to mitigate against the flooding that was taking place. And so a partnership was formed.
SPEAKER_06Well, before you tell me, tell us about the partnership, tell us about the impact that the flooding was was having on the school and on students.
SPEAKER_03Well, from a civil engineering standpoint, it was affecting our buildings. Um, we had a civil engineer that looked at our main um building and it was being affected by the flooding. It was actually sinking the area, the area to the to the front of the property um where the students would sit and have lunch and walk around. Um, when it was rainy season, um, the water just would not drain properly. So we were not able to use that portion of the of the of the property because once the rain would fall, we were in, we were getting um mosquito pestilence, you know, everything was happening on the property that was challenging for the staff and students.
SPEAKER_06We would normally were you were students losing school time because of the flooding that would occur from time to time?
SPEAKER_03No, not not that they would lose time, but especially in months where you know outside is cool and the buildings that we're in now they can be very hot, and sometimes classes, because of the nature of the disabilities, some of our students would want to be outside. We were not able to utilize that area effectively. So the flooding was really affecting the building itself, the grounds, they were not able to play football as they were used to on the grassy area, and so it was affecting the students and stuff.
SPEAKER_06And so the the Island City Lab, which listeners is a very important not-for-profit organization. You're approached by Island City Lab, Ms. Hamilton. They've they're seeing the flooding that's occurring, one of the unintended consequences of the the road widening that took place along Constance Spring Road in Kingston. Tell us what they proposed and whether you had known about the things they were suggesting uh at that time.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Interesting question. So we had no idea who Ireland City Labs were. Yes, because these two, you know, um very passionate young people coming to say Miss Hamilton, we could do, we could send in a proposal and we could assist your school, and they just really wanted to get feedback from us. So we were quite open because we we were really at a loss and how could we manage this this flooding? And so they they sent in their proposal. And what I liked about Island City Labs, they really in even framing their proposal, they actually uh included our students with disabilities, and you know um nothing about us without using. Yes, so they got the feedback from our students. How would they like um the school property to look and feel? And then they started to introduce us to bioswales and river gardens. We never heard rain gardens, we never heard of those terms before, and so we were quite open to to go on this journey with them, and then they submitted the proposal and it was very successful. So from 2023, they have been on board with us.
SPEAKER_06Okay, from 2023, and so between 2023 and now, you have in place at Abilities Foundation, one of the first institutions with with the application of nature-based solutions, or if not the first actually, um, institution with the application of a nature-based solution, such as a bioswale and a rain garden. So let's talk a little bit about each each one. And and and we're not gonna get into the technical side because that's you know the experts, but from your observation of the the solution, um the bioswale is what does it look like?
SPEAKER_03We were watching them while they were constructing it. So it has a mesh, it has different uh material stones. Yes. Um, they pack it and it's in layers, and then the rain garden. Think of a garden, but it's submerged almost like a little pond. And they put plants in there that can handle the water that is being drained from the road. And I can tell you, Kingston has been having uh heavy downpours, even now. We're speaking, and it's raining heavily in constant spring. And when you go outside, you see the water being collected in the rain garden and being transported um straight down to our farm because abilities also we have a farm called Herb Time. And so the water is harvested and circulated through to the farm, and so we actually see it in real time, and the students can actually look and see how the water is being um drained in the in the from the bioswale to the marine garden. It's amazing, and now you know we can actually go around the the front of the property even after heavy downpour, and our and uh to give you a practical example, our feet are not going way down in in the in in the dirt because it was it was almost very swampy, but now that is being drained, and so we see the physical results from the implementation of these nature-based solutions.
SPEAKER_06Excellent. This is just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. You know, because sometimes we you say to people, rain gardens bioswail, and you might describe what goes into them, but people may not quite believe that they can actually work efficiently to manage uh storm water and to manage um uh uh runoff and to direct the water uh in a way that does not result in, you know, it averts the flooding that you you had been experiencing before. And and as you said, it hasn't it because it's designed very intentionally, then that water you're saying is is being channeled to the farm and and being retained uh for purposes of the farm. So it's uh it's a whole system, then correct?
SPEAKER_03Exactly, it is very interconnected, and then I you know we have seen where um what island city labs they gave us a walkway around it, so it's very relaxing. That's the other, that's the other part that's so aesthetically pleasing, but also promotes wellness among our students and our staff. And so after school, I have team members that are exercising around the walkway. I have students that are having or autistic students. So when they have a meltdown in class, we have them and the shadows just walk around the rain garden and it relaxes them. We find that they are autistic students, they love that area and they use it, they love nature. And so when they're having challenges in the classroom, we use that area as a kind of meltdown area. You know, they look at the plants, even although traffic is traversing, they are, you know, they find themselves in a more relaxing mood.
SPEAKER_06And so, in the in in the field of nature-based solutions, what you're talking about in the technical the technicality of it is that there are co-benefits to to using nature-based solutions, the co-benefits uh meaning multiple benefits. Uh, and it's it's well documented that when you when you implement nature-based solutions, they solve the issue that you're trying to address, in your case, flooding, and then they have all these other benefits, the the well-being, the sense of of well-being, the calming. And and are you finding that it's a social space that students or teachers and others are sort of interacting in that space?
SPEAKER_03Uh very, yes, very social, Carol. We find that even for lunchtime, um, the students are under the tree and they are enjoying the space. And also, even although abilities is fairly accessible, a lot of our wheelchair students were not able to access that area because it was always very swampy. But now our wheel or students that have to use their wheelchairs, there it's fully accessible for them, they're going on the lawn, so they feel like the entire campus is now fully accessible. They aren't they don't have any barriers, they can also go and enjoy nature around there.
SPEAKER_04Excellent, excellent.
SPEAKER_03Or blind students are also, you know, I'm noticing that they are counting their steps as they walk around, so they have a fair idea how to navigate the era. It is just awesome, awesome.
SPEAKER_06Wonderful news. So it offers you a learning space as well for for teaching the students uh and incorporating it in your curriculum. Would that be correct?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03So we're really wanting to partner more with heart now in looking at creating a green colour workforce. And that's the next stage because we have the actual uh mechanism, yeah, a living lab that we can teach our students um how you know, and we're looking forward to the following stages of implementing the nature-based solution, and also what we're trying to do is to educate our students about the plans that are best fit for this NBS nature-based solution, and have them do tours. So when you an EFJ and you come to abilities, our students will be taking you around there and telling you how it operates. So a tour guide, you know, we'll be training them to be tour guides.
SPEAKER_06So lots and lots of lots of lots of benefits and spin-offs uh in addition to having solved the the flooding problem. Ms. Hamilton, we are so excited uh to hear uh of the ways in which nature based climate solutions are operating on your school campus, the Abilities Foundation, Constant Spring Road in Kingston. And um we are looking forward as the uh Jamaica Urban Solutions for the Environment project at Environmental Foundation of Jamaica. We're really looking forward to partnering with the school, with Island City Lab to support some of the next phase phases of their intervention. We really are grateful to Abilities Foundation for all the work that you do and for being the pioneer in demonstrating what nature-based solutions can do. Thank you so very, very much, Ms. Hamilton. Thank you so much for joining us.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much, Carol and the EFJ team. Thank you.
SPEAKER_06You know, in the last minute or two that we have for the conversation, let me just ask if there is nothing else that anyone remembers when they've listened to this conversation, what are two things you want folks to take away understanding about what nature-based solutions are and what they do for us?
SPEAKER_01In a nutshell, um simply put, nature-based solutions are actions that protect, restore, or work with natural systems to help reduce climate-related or particular risk, such as flooding, heat, coastal erosion, drought. Governance is really an important uh element uh in being able to structure how these solutions happen and are implemented, but also the opportunities that communities can then gain or to have by uh having certain community-driven actions implemented. There is always this misconception that uh there is no space to implement nature-based solutions in dense cities, but it's simply not true. And they can be integrated in the smallest ways into infrastructure that already exists, whether it's the roadside corridors through the trees, the drains, through the combinations with the bias whales, or even along your uh coastal fronts, um, really taking small tangible efforts uh definitely adds up when it's applied across a very large area.
SPEAKER_06And while you have the floor, uh Uve, can you just say a little bit then about young EcoShape? What is that and how are listeners, can listeners benefit from um maybe going on your website? What kinds of resources are there?
SPEAKER_01EcoShape in itself, it really uh brings together a very large digroup, diverse group of actors, so engineers, ecologists, social scientists, as well as NGOs and government departments. And within that umbrella, young professionals are really supported through the young EcoShape to build long-term capacity for climate-resilient development. So you can check the website to find materials and also to connect directly.
SPEAKER_06EcoShape.org or what what's the website? EcoShape.nl. Okay, great. Max, your two takeaways and as well, tell us about the nature-based solutions platform. How does that how can people be benefited from interacting with the platform?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, as a summary, I think try to slow things down, understand the environment environment you are in, and um try to look around and see what's happening. And that can be on a small scale, for example, with the gardens, like I said, or on a bigger scale if you're more into analyzing a bigger system, and also um trust that you when you're with many, even like a small small intervention can help a lot. And like Uwe said, um, there's always space to do something, and um by doing a lot of small things, you can actually convince the government to do stuff otherwise because it becomes a a proof in itself, in a way. And um sometimes you just also have to experience them to pilot. That's also how EcoShape was founded years and years ago. Um, they started with pilot projects, they had some ideas, got funding together. Um they did it on the bigger scale, but they started, um, and instead of just studying and studying, they started with a pilot and then they monitored, and then they they saw what happened, they adjusted, collected more data, and like, okay, maybe we have to change this and that, but by steering, it becomes a more how you how do you call that? It becomes more of a flowing movement instead of a fixed solution. It it can grow, it can shrink, it can go left, it can go right.
SPEAKER_02It's adaptable.
SPEAKER_00And by uh adaptive, yeah, adaptive. That was the word I was by adapting with it, um you learn a lot actually, because you can think on everything beforehand, and it always comes out different. And whatever you do.
SPEAKER_06The nature-based solutions platform, Max. What is that? And uh can listeners visit that platform what kinds of resources are there?
SPEAKER_00The LinkedIn, um, it comes with all tangible solutions, it showcases projects around the world, they have short informative videos, they do infographics, and there's just a lot of um streams of information to be found and inspiration. And I think there's already around 60 or 70,000 followers on LinkedIn and growing still. Um and yeah, they can always reach out to us like you have before, um, either through EcoShape or the Nature-Based Solutions platform. And I think um our main drive is to um help make the world uh more beautiful and more biodiverse and great space to live in.
SPEAKER_06And so on that note, we thank you both very, very much for joining us for this episode of the uh podcast Resilience Naturally, a podcast produced by the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica as part of the Jamaica Urban Solutions for the Environment J Use project. Want to thank uh Max Sokerbock, um urban resilience expert and uh part of the Nature-Based Solutions platform in the Netherlands, and Uwe Best, member of EcoShape and a Caribbean girl from Guyana. And uh thank you both very, very much for helping us to break down what we mean by nature-based solutions and some of the types of those solutions and the way in which they benefit um place as well as people. So thank you both very much. I'm Carol Narsies.
SPEAKER_02And I'm Rashini Clark Randall. You can keep up with the Resilient Naturally Podcast and everything the JUs Project and the EFJ are doing by following the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica on social media. On Facebook and LinkedIn, just search for the Environmental Foundation of Jamaica, and on Instagram, it's the underscore EFJ. And visit our website at www.efj.org.jm.
SPEAKER_06Join us next time for another episode of Resilience Naturally. Thank you very much, Uve and Max. Take care.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for having us.