sex with benefits
sex with benefits is a podcast hosted by pastors Joe and Ryan, created to open up honest, healthy conversations about sex within the Christian life. With humor and pastoral insight, they aim to remove shame, build understanding, and help couples embrace God’s design for intimacy with confidence and joy. In a nutshell we want couples to have more sex!
sex with benefits
101 | Honeymoon
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Happy Hump Day!
Joe and Ryan reflect on their perspectives on sex before and after marriage. They share how their honeymoons informed their understanding and rhythms for their marriages.
Welcome to another episode of Sex with Benefits. I'm Ryan. I'm Joe.
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SPEAKER_00Hey, we're here to say what you're thinking. We're going to take it to the questions you're afraid to ask. I'm too afraid. I'm too afraid. Or we'll kick off the conversation so you can continue it.
SPEAKER_01That's nice. Yeah, that's nice. Hey, we're new kids on the block. Uh, we know that. And we're talking about something that no one wants to talk about. Actually, this name is not even in the podcast world. We're new. We're launching, sticking our something, taking our claim. Um, so we really hope you enjoy it. Uh, if you have thoughts, ideas, we'd love to hear from you. This is what it's all about. Conversation. We're not here to necessarily teach, we're here to just to open up the dialogue. And so join us as we start this show, and we hope you have a great rest of the day. Hey, how's it going? We're here, we're back.
SPEAKER_02We're here to talk about sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex.
SPEAKER_01We should try to harmonize that in our whispers. You gotta teach me how to harmonize first. I'll teach you later. Yeah, there you go. Sound like what I sound like my first time. I didn't know what else to say. Talking about first times. That's right.
SPEAKER_00This is for honeymoon edition. Honeymoon edition. Wow. We we want to uh take a look back. Joe's been married 16 years. I'm coming up on 18. So we were having to like plumb the depths of our memories to remember what our view of sex was before and after we actually got married. Yeah. Yeah. Wild times.
SPEAKER_01Wild times. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh what pops into your head? I mean, you did uh I mean, you got married.
SPEAKER_00Were you guys virgins? We were both virgins. Okay, we were too. Yeah. So this is hopefully not too boring for people who are who are were not, uh didn't didn't do what we did. Yeah. But I think for me, uh sex was like this, you know, it's this frickin' Mount Everest of like, well, what's that that's what everyone wants, right? But I I also felt like I wasn't gonna get it. Like I thought it was gonna be like a sitcom kind of thing where like the guy's always pining after his wife. It never happens. You know, you work, work, work, maybe you get thrown a bone here and there. Yeah. But then I met Sarah, and our relationship went really well. We actually, we were talking about you know, looking at life before and after honeymoon. Sarah and I were actually pretty communicative really early on. So I knew we were both gonna be interested. Uh but it was still this mystery. I'm like, well, what's it? Is it gonna work? Is she gonna take forever? Am I gonna be too too soon? What's the what's it gonna be like? What's the deal? Uh we heard a lot of like I talked to her about this too, and she was like, Yeah, I heard so many negative things. It's a mess, it it can take forever. Sometimes it's like not what you hope it's gonna be. Yeah. Uh so but we were both confident. Like we're both like, well, we love each other, we want to make this work. I think it was more curiosity, is where we were coming from. Yeah. What about you guys?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we were we're both both the youngest in our families. Yeah. Um, and uh, I mean, really, sex wasn't talked about at all in our families either. Yeah. Um then when we did our premarital counseling, there wasn't really sex talked about either. Really? I mean, uh a little bit, but it wasn't like we didn't go in depth.
SPEAKER_00That was always the third conversation. It was always like communication conflicts, right? Uh contraception. I don't know what we would see was.
SPEAKER_01We so we had no idea what we were doing. Yeah. Um our honeymoon was great in the sense of we were married and but it was very difficult because we just had no idea what we were doing. And we, I mean, I grew up in a very um kind of charismatic Hispanic church as a kid, very legalistic. And so, like, I remember a conversation, you know, my dad had with me before uh the sex talk, and it was just like don't touch yourself, you know. That was it. Right and um, and so uh there wasn't a lot of communication around it, and so it was a very scary thing, fearful thing, bad thing.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01Um, and it took us a while to like to get through that, and then and then in our dating, it was amazing. We would like make out and all this fun stuff, but um and then we felt bad about it, and then we did again, felt bad about it. It was like this like nine months of like just hell, it seemed like, you know. That's why you had to get married because you couldn't stop making out. I mean, essentially, right. And so I think we just kind of like I think we just didn't we didn't have enough information, yeah. And so one of our hearts in in doing premier counseling with others is really talking about that, and you know, it's sometimes we'll talk like, oh, we already we already know, and it's like, no, let's talk about it anyways, because sometimes what you don't know is what you don't know, yeah, you know, and we just didn't know a lot, right? And so before going into it, it was um obviously something that we wanted, but it was it was um it was always negative and security culture you grew up in, and then so afterwards we it took us it to we had to really inform ourselves, we had to really um kind of like do some um exploration of ourselves just to figure out like where are we at? No one ever asked us like what's her safe place, like what's too far, what you should or shouldn't do. We didn't get any of that conversation. It was like two kids. We she was my wife just uh she turned just turned 20. She was like three months in or 20, so 19 basically, and I was uh 22, and we had no idea. We had we none of us had boyfriend or girlfriends before. Yeah, we were each other's first kiss. Yeah. I mean, so you just imagine.
SPEAKER_00Same for us too.
SPEAKER_01And so it's just you know, it seems like though, it seems like you had a lot of good people around you who kind of say kind of helped you with that.
SPEAKER_00So similar kind of um bringing up where like sex was not discussed. It was almost felt like a necessary evil. Like, well, you yeah, guys want this, and kids come and you just deal with it. And you kind of stick you you stay stuck in it. Uh, but we had a pretty strong premarit premarital setup at our church that we were at. And um, actually, the the people who are premarital counselors, they had not, she had not been told anything about sex before they had gotten married. They had like six kids, been married for years, happy. But the night up, she's like, What are you doing? Like she had no idea what to expect. So it was the same kind of thing where like they wanted to make sure that we knew the deal. And that's something that Sarah's in our uh my heart for people as well. Just like you know, like I want people to communicate about it beforehand, uh, have the conversation. So we were very upfront during engagement with hey, this is what we're thinking, this is where I think I'm gonna go to. So we had we had that positive reinforcement for people who had learned the hard way. Like, hey, communication is so key, for sure. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean, so that's kind of our expectations going into it. Um, what would you say now you've been married for 19 years? Um, what's been your experience kind of after? Like what maybe maybe give us like the first five years. What you went into it kind of with that. What what's what do you what did you have to build to come out of that with? What's your experience?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, almost 18 years. Um I think for us the honeymoon went really well. Um honestly, God blessed it. She was actually on her period during it. Wow. Uh we were like the the crimson tide. Uh like we were both like this is terrible. Called my like a family friend who was a doctor, and we're like talking to her because we didn't know, like, is it bad to have sex on your period? Uh and it went great. And you know, it stopped at some point, but like we actually just went for it and it was good. And uh for us, sex became like a foundational rhythm to our marriage. It became kind of like a baseline of reconnection, of refreshment. Um, for us, a big thing, like like sex aside from the physical pleasure. What I didn't know was the mental, emotional, spiritual intimacy that came with sex. That was like a complete like I feel so close to you. I feel like I want to share everything with you, I trust you. Cause it's sex is awkward and open and vulnerable. Like you don't you're putting yourself in a position that's for one person alone. Like no one else is gonna see you like that. Right. Uh, and so it was amazing to be able to enjoy a whole new level of intimacy with Sarah. Because obviously we were as in you know, dating and engaged, we're very, very close, but then you hit this another level where you're like, you can't explain it. I mean, the Bible calls it knowing for a reason. Yeah, it there is this complete knowledge of each other in that moment. Right. Uh so the first five years were honestly freaking awesome. Like we just established our honeymoon, was like we were taught this is your like your time to set a foundation for your sex life, set a rhythm, communicate. Uh, and it really bled into those first five years. Um even as we started having a couple of kids in that time. What about you guys?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, again, I think uh, you know, what one of the things I love about what we're doing at the podcast is that we all have different experiences, right? And in no way are we trying to say this is the way you do things. Absolutely not. Um, and I love that our stories are similar but very different. Yeah, the first the first five years for us were very difficult because we um we there was a lot of frustration in those beginning days because we we didn't kind of we had to figure stuff out and we didn't I don't think I realized as like as a husband like how emotional sex was um and how emotional it was for our spouses. Yeah. And so no one ever taught me how to lead in the sexual realm. That's interesting. And so I knew how I like I was like providing, I was like leading my wife and you know, in in things we're doing, but like no one ever taught like, hey, um this is how you lead your wife in the in with sexuality. Like now I look back and I'm like, gosh, I was so immature. Like I'm like like I've really done a lot of damage because what happens is when you don't know and and and and because you uh you don't know how things are supposed to go in the sense not just like the practicality of it, just like emotions, like um, and you talked about like knowing each other at a deeper level, it creates a lot of gray and manipulation and um fear and safe place, expectations get dropped, and and we didn't really have any expectations, we just knew they weren't being met, you know? Yeah, and so it's it's it's very confusing. So we we took it was a journey for us, and we were young. I mean, we were just like we were just so young. Um sometimes the hookup culture, and you hear about you know 18, 17 having said, I'm like, how how do you even do that emotionally? Like I was 22 and I was like wrecked because I'm like, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, you know? And so I think for us, it um we've we had to grow and set foundations and really um uh build something that we have an amazing marriage now, and and I often talk more about intimacy than I do about sex now. Yeah, because I've had to learn that um sex is a moment, it's it's the it's it's it's part of the climax. Right. Um and but there's this intimacy that's so much deeper, it's almost like intimacy surrounds sex um before after around. And we really try to be like, what is it like for us to create a marriage that has intimacy in it? Um because the reality is is that someday in our lives, you know, things might get harder and things may not grow and things may, you know, right? And it's just like there has to be a deeper foundation.
SPEAKER_00One of you could be wheelchair bound, your whole marriage, right, for sure.
SPEAKER_01And so for uh for me and for us, I think it was a harder journey. It was it was a journey that we we're we went on and we we are there to really walk with couples. Um yeah, so I mean we love each other. I mean, we were deeply in love with each other, and we still are, um, and we fought through it, and so we came through the other side, but it it it it was a hard road, and a lot of it I I would say um uh not necessarily like blame, but like we just there was no one around us that just walked it through with us, you know. Um and so now we're like okay, like we we understand the pain, we understand the privilege, um, and we want to help couples um not just use sex as a band-aid, right? Um, but to allow it to um feed into a healthy marriage. Um I think that's great. And so, anyways, yeah, that's that was our experience in the first five years, and um we go through seasons and like you know, and that'd be probably a good episode to talk about is like you know, is sex every day or is it you know moments for there's seasons whether it's every day and seasons or not, you know? Sure. And so I think I think that's it's a journey. And you know what? One of the things that's wild about um sex, why I think it's so important, is that it's it's an issue, or it's a privilege, or it's a burden for the whole your whole life. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean these convalescent homes. I mean you hear stories about just people still going wild buckwild and convalescent homes having sex. Yeah. It's like until you die, there was something that was put inside of us from God. Yeah. Um, and that it's always gonna be there. And so how you uh kind of lead it in yourself and your your your your um with your partner is gonna be the rest of your life until you die. Right. We're not gonna have to worry about it in heaven. Yeah. It doesn't seem like that's what we're doing, but it's like um and so I think that's interesting. It's like it's the one thing you're gonna have kids, you're not gonna have kids. You're gonna have jobs, you're not gonna have jobs. You always you're always gonna have a sexual drive to some degree. Right. Or struggle or to, you know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I th I think that it's awesome that you have that perspective of someone who fought hard and worked through it, like got messy, blood, sweat, and tears, to get to a healthy sex life. Yeah. You know, where it's like that that's that's what we need. In a lot of ways, that's more valuable input. Cause like, hey, I think I think more people than not are struggling, which is why we want to do this podcast, because we want people to talk about it. We want them to not feel the way you felt. Right. But like no one was throwing you a bone. Bone, bone, bone. Uh so we want to throw people a bone. Like we want to say, like, hey, let's talk about it. It took me years to be in like a couple small group for someone to find my my leader to find and be like, so what's your sex life out? Yeah. Uh what's your sex life like at you know when at one to ten? It was like the first time like two or three years someone had actually mentioned. Right. It's like, well, too late now. Um so I think it's great that you can bring uh the perseverance, the trust, the working through, like having that conversation. You're ready. The drive is gonna keep going. So have the conversation about it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think to uh we you know we're all a couple of things. One, we are um we we do no edits to our podcast. So if you hear some ice crunching in the background, it's because we're drinking an ice ice mocha and Ryan's drinking his his water bottle. Um if uh so we're very overall, uh we don't it's not about we don't want to be polished, we just want to be real. Um so you hear that. Uh and we're trying to keep it also very uh within a time frame you can listen to on the way to work 15, 20 minutes. So to kind of like wrap up this part of the thing, I w I wanted to ask us a question. Yes. Um that I think is always helpful um for someone who's maybe 19, 20, um, not married yet, or maybe about to marry, whatever. What would your your 40. You're 41. What what's what age did you get married? 23. We were both 23. Okay. So what would you tell your 20-year-old self? So maybe you're a little before you got married, yeah um, that you know now that will help them set themselves up for when did you meet Sarah? When you were I mean, I knew her when we were teenagers. Okay, so like you were, you know, 1920. What would you tell yourself about sex? Um and it'd be nice, interesting to kind of hear our responses to kind of finish this out. I like that. Maybe that help you help for someone who's who's like struggling, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I think I tended towards control and expectation and like how can I get from here to there and make this happen. And I think I'm still tempted to do that a lot of times. And it's funny, I find when I'm not focused so much on it or staring it right in the face, if you will, that's why it's amazing. Because it's a give and take. It's not like, well, here's my laundry list. I think it's fine talking about likes and dislikes, you know, that that's great. I want to try this. That's there's nothing wrong with that. For me, my inclination is uh to needing to relax, to chill out. I would tell myself, worry about the spiritual side or be more concerned and interested in the spiritual side of things, in having a trusting relationship with your Lord and Savior, in uh making yourself spiritually vulnerable, emotionally vulnerable, and shoring that up because the physical side will come. The physical side, I'm not saying it's gonna be effortless, but if you are walking with the Lord, if you are connecting with your wife in a spiritual way, one feeds into the other and it sets it up for success. And also gives you not only a healthy open discussion, but good language to come at it from. It's not just I want, it's well, what are we doing here? For me, marriage has never been about 50-50 with me in the middle. It's a hundred and hundred. It's overlap. It's like, how can I love you? Sex is a self-sacrificial thing. Uh and I I think the harder part is having that spiritual health to have that relationship with Jesus so that that's your baseline, so that marriages seasons, like you were saying, they come and go, they go, there's ups and downs. But God needs to be the consistent baseline for you so that you can approach marriage and sex and intimacy in a healthy way. Yeah. That's cool.
SPEAKER_01Um if I was to talk to my younger self, uh, 19, 20, a couple years before, probably the time I met Rosie, um, I would say um to get around some some guys that youth who who have a healthy sex sex life. Um guys who are older, you know, 10 years down the road, five years down the road, and just ask questions. I think I was just so afraid to ask questions. Um and then to really get, I think I would love to have accountability that was kind of like who I am now. You know, so like hey someone like you talking to you. Yeah, so for example, like man, we're making out in the car after youth group, after I lead youth group, we're like in the parking lot, which is a it was glorious, right? Yeah, if you're telling them not to touch themselves. Right, right. Get a girlfriend. Um and uh but then be I would be so devastated and shameful the whole next week. Okay, and just someone would be like, hey, this is normal. Like as you grow in a relationship, you're gonna want to make out, want to touch. And I just don't think I had that. And I think that would have freed me. Um, and then also felt like I had someone I can talk to, like when we got home from the honeymoon. I remember talking to one of the pastors and being like, gosh, it's like very difficult. And he's just like, Well, you know, just do it from doggy style. And I'm like, I don't even know what that is. Like, how do you do that? You know what I mean? That's the same thing. It was just like, yeah, and so it was just very much like like um I wish I would have just been free enough and courageous enough to ask, yeah, and to get around because I think that would have that would have helped a lot of our beginning day issues because at some point we almost were like, we need to like confess because we were like, you know, doing things and before, and it's like, yeah, maybe we you know, we just maybe we dishonored each other to some degree, but I don't think we fully knew the whole story. Like as you grow in a relationship, intimacy grows and and and sexuality urges get stronger. Yeah, and because we didn't know that, it it just felt like a shame thing, and so it took a while to get to for shame not to be for sex not to be shame. Did you associate that with sex then? It was like sexary sexual okay, yeah. Okay, and so you know, you kind of carry that into your marriage a little bit. I mean, you're talking about like young, youngest families, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh young at age and just zealous for God and and just like in love with each other. Yeah. And you can just think like the perfect storm is like the enemy to be like, this is bad, you know. And so I think for me, I would just say, hey, chill out, yeah, um, get around some healthy guys. Yeah. Um, and it's gonna be okay. Like, you know, and I think so, anyways, I think that's what now I get to we get to beat the other people. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Which is you you want people to ask, but you can also ask. Right, which is why How's it going being engaged? How's it going dating?
SPEAKER_01100%, which is why if anybody hangs out with us long enough, we they know me and you are the first ones to ask that. And it's it's not because we're just horny and we just really want to know, but it's it's like it's not just that. Yeah, yeah, it's not just that, yeah. Maybe there's something, but it's like it's like, no, we care so much that the enemy doesn't get it right. Yeah. And so how do we reclaim the benefits of sex, right? How do we reclaim like like um that God gave us the urges, created sex, love Genesis in the beginning? They be they became one, right? There was this intimacy, they were naked and not to not feel shame, right? Like, like we need that again in our culture. Um purity is great, but what does gospel purity look like? Um, and what does a healthy marriage look like? And a healthy healthy sex, healthy marriage, um, and healthy sex is Jesus at the center, um, where he's not full of shame. And when you get past that, you know, imagine going to your honeymoon and just realizing there's no shame for us to have. Yeah. And you know how much shame there is. Right. Like you're like taking your clothes off, you're like, oh sh, you know, this is this is it. Here I am. I hope I'm okay. And um, and it's like imagine if we were able to come alongside people and say, Hey, that first night doesn't need to be that. Actually, it's glorious. You know? Indulge in the fruit. It's a gift. It's a gift.
SPEAKER_00It's a good thing. I love that. Separating the shame from it. And that's something that you do together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know? It's like you have to cover each other. Cover each other. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And so listen, if you uh are struggling, we're here for you. And you know, um you're not alone. And if you're dating, if you're single, and you're like, man, what do I do? Um it's always better the way that Jesus intended it. Um there are plenty of benefits to have in sex. If you've been married for a while and you're like, I'm dying uh because there's nothing, it it's not that the answer isn't just to do it more. There's some deep things that need to be worked out. And we're hoping to walk that out with you um every week. And so we really hope you have a great hump day. It's Wednesday. Happy hump day. Hump hump. Hump hump. Um, and we'll see you on our next episode. That's all right. Have a great week, and uh, we'll talk to you soon.