Bob Taylor: Walnut Valley Unified School District

What does it take to lead the same school district for 14 years while consistently building a culture that develops leaders who get recruited across the entire state? 

In this episode of School District Superheroes, Nick Telford sits down with Bob Taylor, the Superintendent of Walnut Valley Unified School District in California. Broadcasting from a leadership retreat in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, Bob shares his deep commitment to developing people at every level of his organization. From taking 50 district employees to learn leadership lessons on historic battlefields to running a state-wide Aspiring Superintendents Program, Bob reveals why true leadership requires investing heavily in others. Discover how his unparalleled longevity with a highly veteran school board has created a resilient, well-oiled district culture rooted in continuous learning. In this episode, you'll learn:

• How a year-long leadership program builds culture and ends with a Gettysburg trip
• Why leaders must be "generalists" and lead subject experts by asking questions
• How "productive paranoia" helps leaders look ahead to make complex decisions
• The secret to Bob's 14-year tenure and the efficiency of a veteran school board
• Why losing top talent is a chance to adopt an "upgrade" mindset to thrive

Learn more about Walnut Valley Unified School District 

Transcript

Bob Taylor 0:00

I'm more comfortable now with it going into my 14th year, uh, than I would've been in my first, second, third, fourth year, 'cause back then it was just scary to lose good people. But I mean, I, I can't... I- it would be, uh, I'd be a hypocrite to talk about developing people and then holding them back from their aspirations and to be able to lead at a higher level and, and cast a bigger net, over people, uh, their influence.

0:27

You're listening to School District Superheroes, a podcast that puts the super back in superintendents. In each episode, you'll learn how today's most innovative superintendents are re-imagining what's possible for students, staff, and their communities. And now for your host, Nick Telford.

Nick Telford 0:47

Well, good morning Bob Taylor, all the way from Gettysburg. How are you this morning?

Bob Taylor 0:52

I'm doing great. Yeah, it's early, uh, morning back here in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. So happy to, happy to be joining you. Thanks for having me on

Nick Telford 0:59

Yeah, no problem. It's, it's earlier for me, uh, just to let you know there, Bob. Uh, but, uh, no, it's, it's really nice. Thanks for, for making the time for us. you're joining us on the School District Superheroes podcast, and I always like to start off with who was your favorite superhero growing

Bob Taylor 1:15

Favorite superhero? probably Batman. I go back to watching the original Batman, not the cartoon Batman, and, um, uh, I think the pow and the wow and all the, uh, the graphics and, his stories and, and the, uh, influence he had on the world was, uh, was pretty cool. So I'd say, off the top of my head, I'd say Batman. I might, might come up with a, a different choice later, but that'd be it

Nick Telford 1:37

Okay. Now Batman's good. I think that's-- if, if I was gonna pick someone, that'd be mine too. so you're, you're in, in Gettysburg, and, uh, it's unique that we're, we're able to do this from, uh, across the country. there's a reason obviously you're there, and it's probably related to your role as the superintendent of, uh, Walnut Valley Unified School District. So maybe you could kick things off by telling us a little bit about, why you're there and, uh, if there's anything interesting to know about, the genesis of that trip and, uh, and, and what you do when you're out there.

Bob Taylor 2:09

Yeah, so we are, uh, we are at Gettysburg College right now. Um, over my shoulder is kind of a, a central quad area, of the, uh, of the college. I'm sure as everybody knows, super, uh, historic college, and just being in, in this environment, is inspirational. Uh, we have about 50, school district employees just a couple of rooms over, doing a workshop right now. Um, and, uh, we've been back here, for about four days. Uh, have one more day. We'll head home, uh, tomorrow night. the, the program really, w- one of our five focus areas for our school district has been, uh, leadership development at all levels of the organization. And, uh, we really pride ourselves in, um, developing people. We're in a people business, and, um, it's super important that, that we're developing our people. And so we started this program, uh, when I first came to the district, and we have a year-long leadership development program for employees. So we have about 50 people in this year's cohort. Um, every type of position you can think of in the school district is probably represented. We have classified employees. Uh, we have a, a district electrician. We have, administrative assistants. we have, teachers at all levels, everything from transitional kinder and kinder teachers all the way up through AP US history teachers at the high school level. we have a, uh, a handful of administrators. They have a different program they go through as well. Um, and, uh, uh, counselors and, and every type of job in the district. And we meet for a full day, uh, once a month during the school year. So we have about nine times we come together for a full eight-hour day. Uh, we do a lot of reading, um, a lot of, uh, speakers, just resources that will help develop us all as leaders. Building team is a huge part of this. And at the end of the year, uh, we graduate on a Thursday night. School gets out on Thursday. And on Sunday every year, we put these 50 people on an airplane. We fly from Los Angeles to Washington, DC together. Uh, we land on Sunday late afternoon in, in DC and, and, um, take them immediately to the mall area and give them about an hour to stretch their legs and check out some of the, uh, monuments: the Lincoln Monument, the Washington Monument, uh, Korean War Monument. Uh, really gets their mind, I think, focused on, uh, we're in a really special place, uh, with a lot of history here. And then we get on the bus and head into Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. It's about an hour, hour and a half ride out of DC, and we check into a hotel. and then the next morning we get up, and we spend two days, Monday and Tuesday, on the battlefield, uh, at Gettysburg And the idea is that we're learning from the past. So we have a, uh, Gettysburg tour guide, a licensed tour guide, and we have a, uh, retired colonel, from the US Army the two of them combine. The, the tour guide really talks about what happened at certain monuments and certain points in times during the Civil War, the Battle of Gettysburg. And then the, uh, retired colonel comes in and talks about the leadership components. Here's why this person made the decision that, uh, that he did at the time, and now apply it to your world, your current job, and how do we find connections from the past leaders, good decisions they made and decisions they would probably like to have back, and how do we apply those, uh, moments to our learning as leaders? And we find relevancy in that. So we spend two days. It's, uh, not a history lesson, but you can't help but to be, just totally engrossed in the, in the history and the surroundings. at night, a really important part, I think for me as a superintendent, is the social part. We, we go to dinner together, um, and they did a ghost tour last night. They've, uh, done a, um, scavenger hunt through Gettysburg. So a lot of team-building activity kinda based things at night. and then today, which is day four, really day three of being here, uh, we come to Gettysburg College, and we, we start to look at, uh, the current and the future. So we go from the past to the current and the future. And, uh, this morning we have a person from CSIS, which is the Center, for Strategic and International Studies. It's one of the largest think tanks in Washington, DC, and they, they look at futuristic planning. And so, the person today is going to talk to us about, trends, different, areas of, uh, of life, and what it might look like twenty-five, uh, years from now. Really important. You know, we have, uh, transitional kindergarten and kindergarten teachers that are teaching four and five-year-olds who will graduate from high school in, you know, uh, twelve or thirteen years. And we have kids being born right now that are gonna graduate in eighteen, you know, eighteen, nineteen years. And, um, so it really helps us to start to think about how as a school district, how as a school, how as a teacher or an employee are we preparing kids for what life might look like in the future. And then tomorrow we'll, uh, get up and, uh, get up really early, take the hour and a half bus ride back to Washington, DC, and we give everybody, uh... the, the fifty people have a day in DC, and we, we have some, uh, events planned, some museums, tours, different things that they can do, or they can just tour on their own. And then we meet up at, uh, I think around four o'clock in the afternoon, and we fly home. And, uh, I, I tell the group when we get here that really the two outcomes that we're looking for is to continue to develop as leaders, number one, and number two, build a, build a sense of team. And, uh, we've had... This is... They had T-shirts made up. They do a lot of marketing, a lot of, uh, kinda cool team-building things. And so day one, they had us all wear T-shirts that said Cohort Eleven. So this is our eleventh group to go through. And if you do the math, with anywhere from forty to fifty people, we've had over five hundred of our employees during my tenure go through, not only the Gettysburg experience, which Kind of gets the most attention, but the, uh, the full year of leadership development. So we, we, uh, share common, um, leadership philosophies and, and, and talk about values and things like that, that I think, um, the size of our district, we've, we've reached a tipping point where, um, the leadership development, uh, and the continuity has really impacted culture. So that's why we're here. So it's, it's a fun time

Nick Telford 8:21

No, it's great. and, and, uh, I did have the, uh, pleasure of joining you at one point for the trip out in Gettysburg. And, What struck me was just the-- You can take the, lessons from what a general learned at a crucial time in, in history and apply it to a classroom or apply it to a superintendent, uh, or superintendent position. 100% see the relevance and, and the, the practicality of, of what you're doing out there. So you-- I know that you do that for Walnut Valley School District. you, you also do that for-- 'Cause when I went out with you, there was other superintendents there. So how does-- The Gettysburg trip is not just for your school district, Maybe tell us how that weaves into other leadership init-initiatives that you're pioneering, uh, in the state of California.

Bob Taylor 9:08

Yeah, you know, I, I was really blessed to, um, work, in some systems, with strong leaders that modeled, organizational leadership and, uh, development of people. And I think it's really challenging for a person to, uh, implement something like a leadership development program if they haven't been part of one themselves. it doesn't, uh, minimize their ability to lead. They're great leaders, but maybe they haven't had the experience of how do you take a whole entire organization through, a people development process. And so I was just super blessed to be able to have leaders that, uh, modeled that for me, and, and I'm really just copying what, what I learned and what I went through. And, um, and so then now, now that I'm, uh, now that I'm the old guy and have been doing this a long time, I, I do feel kind of a, a calling to, uh, to try to help out where I can. And, and I think one of those areas is to try to, model and, and try to expose, superintendents who haven't had the opportunity to be in a system of intentionally developing people, um, give them an opportunity to see and, and learn and, and see if it's a fit for them. And so we have, on multiple occasions, brought back a, a small group of superintendents, um, to kind of experience, the, the we also talk to them about what a year-long leadership development, both logistically and, the philosophy behind it, um, and so that when they leave here, maybe they feel more comfortable with, uh, doing something similar that fits their district and their style and, uh, and, and having a resource of somebody who, who can tell them, all the things I've screwed up doing it and some of the things that went well and, and, uh, really just trying to spread that influence 'cause I, I think leadership development is, is, uh, really one of the core, um, most important things that we can do to, uh, maximize the achievement of our school districts.

Nick Telford 11:00

and there is a, a kind of a, a superintendent's program because, you know, when, when superintendents come on this podcast, I-- you know, a lot of it is about anyone who's listening that might be a teacher or administrator, uh, or just interested in, in the role of the superintendent of the school district, can kind of learn, uh, from people who've been there and done that. And I know that you're-- you've, you've been very intentional. You've, you have this calling, as you mentioned, to, take that role on developing leaders. And so the Aspiring Superintendents Program that, uh, you've put on that's been going for a number of years, I believe, and that is also linked into your trip to Gettysburg. Maybe if you could tell us a little bit about, how you're, from an organizational standpoint, putting on these programs for, uh, in a practical way for people who see superintendency down the road as something that they want to do, how you're facilitating that, uh, opportunity for them.

Bob Taylor 11:55

Yeah, no, I appreciate that question. I, um- going back about seven or eight years ago, probably, probably even longer than that, there was such an emphasis in the world of superintendents about a, a lack of people wanting to even join the, uh, the superintendent world. And I mean, you look at, what's in the news about what superintendents go through, and you think, uh, "You guys must be crazy for even wanting to do this." I will tell you, it's the greatest job I've ever had. I, I wouldn't trade it for anything. Um, but it is challenging. And, and the more support and resources that we can have as superintendents, um, not only during the tenure, uh, of being a superintendent, but also preparing to be a superintendent, I think can, can help, uh, make us more successful. And so about eight years ago, I went back to, uh, to my alma mater where, where I received my master's and doctorate, which was Azusa Pacific University, and had a conversation, with the dean of education at the time, Dr. Anita Hink. And she's now a provost there. Wonderful, wonderful leader. And, uh, we talked about this concept of developing people, and she was very intentional about, emphasizing the need to, um, promote and develop historically unrepresented, uh, demographics of superintendents. And so we started an aspiring superintendents group. It's a, it's a calendar year long. We go January through about December and, uh, meet about once a month. we're currently in our seventh cohort. Um, we have about twenty-five people per cohort, so you can do the math on that. We've had quite a few, a couple of hundred people go through the program. And, uh, we, uh, focus on being a generalist. to me that was some of the, uh, most important training that I received in preparation to be a superintendent. And then just living it out, you see how important that is. And I, I think a lot of times we, we tend to wanna go back to a- an area that we are comfortable. So I was a teacher and, and coach and, uh, assistant principal and principal, and came up through the ed services rank, and naturally went into becoming a, an ed services leader at the district office level. And when I became a superintendent, the tendency is to go down the hall to the ed services area and spend your time there because I'm not as comfortable, um, nor as, uh, am I nearly as knowledgeable as maybe the assistant superintendent of business or the assistant superintendent of human resources or the chief operating officer. Um, but we are, uh, we have a responsibility as superintendents to be generalists and lead in all of those areas. And so what our program does is we really try to make people more comfortable, get them thinking like a superintendent when they come in for a, for that one day a month, uh, workshop, and, uh, s- start to learn how to be a generalist and lead in those different areas. Like, I will never ever, ever know as much as our assistant superintendent or deputy superintendent of business who's been doing the job for nearly twenty years. But I still have a responsibility to lead him and to question him and, uh, and to help grow him and hold him accountable. And, um, we have to be comfortable doing that. And, and it's really an uncomfortable place to be when the people you're leading have more experience in that, uh, that area than you do. So we started this program, like I said, seven years ago. We've had a couple hundred people go through. Um, similar to our leadership development program in Walnut Valley, I think we, we, uh, we help develop them and prepare them to be superintendents, help them get into the job and then continue that, uh, connection with them. And then, uh, maybe more importantly, the network they build. They, they're with twenty-five colleagues from across the state, um, in all different types of positions. And, um, we still have text message groups from seven years ago, you know, celebrating things, asking questions, relying on each other. So I think the, the networking and the, uh, the development has been really important. Uh, they don't have to listen to me talk the whole time. We bring in, um, really high quality, uh, superintendents, retired superintendents, state leaders, whether it be... We have a different topic each time. So if it's business services, we bring in state leaders in, in the area of business. And whatever the area is, we, we bring in, um, people that can, can help them grow

Nick Telford 16:05

Fantastic. Yeah. I love the idea of being a generalist, and that being a, a very, in itself being a very specific role that you almost need to be an expert in being a generalist, which seems like a bit of a contradiction. But, um, for those folks who, who think, "Yeah, I don't know all the background of, HR or business," but across the state, of course, there are superintendents who don't have that individual expertise. They came up through different paths. what would you say, just to dig into that a little bit, could you explain a bit more about how you as a superintendent, lead a group of experts in their field, and what are the skills that a leader needs to have within a, a district environment where you don't have those individual expertise, but you still have to, uh, lead them?

Bob Taylor 16:53

Yeah, you know, I learned, again from really great role models, um, and mentors that, In a position like superintendent or any leadership position, uh, you have to lead through others. Um, and you have to, develop people, to be able to both implement systems, that align with the organization's values and philosophy, and then equally or more important, you have to, um, develop people, uh, to treat people the way, the organization and you as the superintendent wants them to be treated. And that's not easy. So you're really putting, the culture of the organization in others' hands as you lead through them. And so I think, what my role is, is, spend a lot of time with people, have a lot of conversations. they, they, uh, tease me, uh, my family does as well, about asking too many questions. I, uh, I-- either blessed or cursed, I think since I was born, probably from my parents', upbringing, to ask a lot of questions. and you can just help people grow so much by, you know, questioning our human resources person. She has twenty years of experience plus in human resources. We're gonna go left here, and then I just might ask her, "Well, why wouldn't you go right?" And, uh, and we'll have a conversation about what it looks like to go that way instead of that way. And we'll probably end up going back to where she originally, um, suggested, but we're gonna go through that process of looking at all of the, uh, possibilities. The other thing I think as a superintendent, not only asking great questions, but, helping to look out into the future. the, the person today that's gonna talk to us, will look at the, as I said, the futuristic planning, and we'll talk about how we don't do a lot of thinking about the future. it's really hard to predict the future. It's impossible. And so I think sometimes according to the research, we, we don't think about it as much as we should. I think my goal is to try to keep thinking about what are the next steps that could happen based on a decision that we might make, or you might make in your particular area of expertise. Um, I love the term-- There's a book by Jim Collins, uh, Great by Choice, and he looked at, ten CEOs who thrived in whatever their field was, uh, while others didn't thrive, uh, for whatever reason. And he looked at what do they have in common, and one of the four or five things they have in common is this, concept that he calls product- uh, productive paranoia. And he says paranoia could be bad, uh, but productive paranoia is good. And it's always looking at everything we do one, two, three, four steps out. And I think it's a skill that can be developed. Um, I think some people naturally do that, but if not, you can develop it. And so I think being really intentional with our, really strong leaders about what is the impact of these decisions that we're making and having those conversations.

Nick Telford 19:38

Jim Collins is, the other book, "Good to Great." I didn't know about "Great by Choice." I'm gonna look that up. He's,

Bob Taylor 19:44

doesn't get as much, uh, it doesn't get as much, uh, street cred, you know, but it's, uh, I, I really, it- it's one of my favorite books, Great by Choice

Nick Telford 19:51

i-in talking about the future and, and seeing around corners as a superintendent, you know, you just mentioned, like, your job is to keep questioning, look at all the what-ifs, and look down the road of what's coming and kind of pull it all together in terms of decisions that are made. and you've been doing that for a long time, and you've made probably an intentional decision to stay with Walnut Valley, that you're going into, I believe, your 13th or 14th year. Was there intentionality behind, um, you know, you see your, your growth with a particular district? 'Cause it's rare. I think the average, lifespan of, of a superintendent right now is about two and a half years at a school district. So, but there are superintendents within California that, just have that longevity and, and just wondering, you know, how, how that came to be.

Bob Taylor 20:37

I encourage people, um, and compliment people who are courageous enough to leave a comfortable organization to pursue, another opportunity. Um, so if somebody comes to me and they say, "I wanna be a principal," and they're currently an assistant principal, or they come to me and they say, "I wanna be a superintendent," and they're an assistant sup, I'll ask them, "Do you wanna be a principal here, or do you wanna be a principal?" 'Cause those are two, two big differences. And there's not a right or wrong answer, but it helps me to understand what their goals are and, and, and where they're headed. if you had asked me this, I am going into my 14th year. If you had asked me when I was hired, first of all, I had no idea what I was doing, so, um, but if, if you'd asked me, um, "Will you be here 14 years later?" I would have probably laughed and said, "No." One, based on the research that you cited, you know, most superintendents are there for a couple of years and, and move on either by choice or, or not. and two, I had, been a person that had been blessed with a lot of opportunities that involved moving school districts or moving schools throughout my career, and I, I was comfortable with that. so I, I don't think I would have said... I didn't have a plan to leave, but I didn't think it was even in, on my radar that I would stay. but I, I, I've seen how important it is, for continuity, uh, and longevity. Um, you know, I, yeah, I am going into my 14th year, but we also have a school board that's been, uh, with our organization, probably one of the, the most veteran school boards in the, in the state, if not the country. Um, we have a board member, Ms. Helen Hall, who we just named the boardroom after, uh, who's in her 40th year and is re- uh, you know, re-upping, running again for a re-election, uh, this November. Um, we have a, a person, Larry Redinger, who's in his 35th year on the board. we have another person, Cindy Reese, who's running again, and she's in her 25th year on the board. And then, um, Tony Tor- Dr. Tony Torn and Laila Butalib are in their 13th and 12th years. They're the rookies, um, that came on just after me. And so that continuity of leadership, for lack of a better word, at the top of the organization, if things are going well and if you're staying relevant and you're pushing yourself to continue to be relevant, continuing to look towards the future and not resting and saying, "Oh, we're doing a good job." because if that happens, then I need to leave and somebody else needs to come in and, and, and re-energize the organization. But as long as I feel like I'm relevant and they want me to be here, um, then that longevity and that continuity, I think, is really irreplaceable. I, I've been able to be a part of hiring, um, all but two of our, uh, leaders across the district, 60 or so people, and, uh, help them get into their position. and, uh, what that means is they've been part of a system and being developed with common values, uh, again, around systems and, and how we treat people, across the entire organization. And so when you talk about leading through others, that's really important. We have an executive cabinet I've referenced a little bit. Our deputy superintendent has been with us about eight or nine years and, and was 10 years as an assistant sup in a previous district. Our human resources, assistant sup has been with us... Uh, she started the day after we shut down schools in COVID, so whatever that's been, six years or so. And, and she, she was a superintendent for, eight years herself and HR before that. our ed services, uh, assistant sup has been in the district 29 years and ha- has the longevity and the history, uh, and the relationships across the district that, that you can't replace, you know, that kind of time and commitment. Uh, and then our, uh, chief operating officer, uh, is fairly new to us, but she's, uh, been an assistant superintendent of business in two previous districts. And so when you take a team of four people as your executive cabinet, and you, and you partner that with a, a school board with the longevity, and the, uh, just kind of the philosophy and the attitude and the values, they recognize that they are role models for kids. Um, that doesn't happen everywhere. Uh, that combination, that's tough to leave. And so, uh, again, as long as they, they will have me, I've been, I've been happy to, to be here and, and, uh, felt like it was the right choice rather than moving to some other opportunities.

Nick Telford 24:54

I think, I think I was just trying to do the math there, but is there almost a couple of hundred years of, uh, knowledge between the board and the cabinet if you add all those years up? that's incredible. And, and in a world where there is such, turnover and, and, uh, always people moving to the next thing and, there's always something exciting out there to go and either challenge yourself with or, or opportunities do come across thick and fast, but, but staying the course at a district and that I presume just the, the solidity within the district and the ease of making decisions and the trust and the loyalty, I'm sure that really makes for a really well-oiled machine within the district. I, I, I... Do your board meetings still go past midnight or how do you see the efficiency out-- in terms of like how you're able to, as an organization, how that functions now with all that experience?

Bob Taylor 25:43

Yeah, I'm really proud of, of the efficiency of, of, um, how things are, are ran here. I think that comes with experience. It comes... A, a lot of that is, uh, my responsibility, again, to lead through others. Like, um, and that includes leading up. We... One of the things we talk about, uh, we talked about yesterday on the battlefield is the importance of, of leading in four directions, which is, is leading ourselves, um, which we need to do more of, uh, leading, for lack of a better term, subordinates or the people that we're called upon to lead in a, uh, you know, in a, uh, traditional, um, fashion. But leading our colleagues, which is super, challenging to do sometimes, but then also leading our bosses and, um, having that working relationship with a board where, you're helping to lead them, into, uh, modeling efficiency and class and, um, professionalism and making choices that are good for kids. And they do that anyways, but it's, it's part of my, my job de- to, um, ensure that, that occurs, and it's not always easy. the thing I would say is the, the decisions are not easy, just to go back to that, that statement that, that, that you made. They're, they're not easy. one of the advantages of being somewhere for so long and having such a, uh, continuity of team, whether it be with the board or the executive cabinet, is, uh, going kind of to Lencioni's work about, the importance of being able to have honest discussions as a team, and the be- the, uh, the ability to be able to disagree, and offer different opinions that may be opposing opinions, but then at the end of the day, walking out of the door and having a, a solid front. I think that's what people see is a happy, positive, unified team, whether it be the executive cabinet or the board. That doesn't mean that there's not deep, rich debate behind the scenes, what it means is that people are, are loyal to the organization, um, have a voice, but then, value, team decisions and team input. And so that's not easy. That's something we work at every single day. it reminds me of when I, when I was coaching football. I was raised by a football coach, and so brought up in that world. and, and if you have ever been, part of a coaching staff, good coaching staffs will go in, uh, in preparation for a next game, whatever sport it may be, and, uh, they'll, they'll fight and argue and debate 'cause they're so passionate about wanting to put the players in the best position to be successful. But then the good staffs ultimately walk out of the door, and the players and the fans and everybody else think they're unified from the start, like they're all bought in, and that's what they sell. And that, that's a compliment to the individual people, especially if that wasn't their first choice as a direction to go, but also to the team. And so we, we try to replicate that, but it takes a lot of work

Nick Telford 28:30

Yeah. No, I'm glad you touched on that because it, it does-- you do make it look easy. You know, I g- I've, you know, met some of your staff at Walnut and, and talked to you a lot, and you always... You come across as someone with a calm demeanor, and, uh, that you take everything in your stride. And, and that is a reflection o-on the district a-as well, I believe. and it does look easy, but, I, I also live in California, and you see these surfers hop u- hop up onto a surfboard and, and surf a wave, and I've tried that, and it's not easy at all. But they make it look easy, but a lot of hard work's gone into it, and I think that's... It, it's very good to remind ourselves of and, uh, for you to remind us that it's a huge amount of hard work goes into making things look

Bob Taylor 29:14

there's a book, uh, it's a, it's, it's a dated book, but I think it's still a classic. Todd Whitaker wrote What Great Teachers Do Differently, but... and also wrote a book, What Great Principals Do Differently. And one of the concepts that he talks about is he says, um, "When the principal sneezes, the whole school catches a cold." And what he's talking about, obviously, is, the demeanor of the leader, whether you're talking about an athletic team or a school or a business or any organization, um, kinda can set the tone for the rest of the organization, whether it be in crisis or any kind of time. And it's okay to let people n- be vulnerable and let people know that, um, there are great struggles, and I struggle all the time, and I make mistakes and get frustrated, uh, and upset. But for the most trying to model and set the tone, of, of a positive culture. Uh, and it starts with, you know, trying to influence the other adults that trickle down to, to our, to our kids. I think my most important job as a superintendent is to, develop and keep growing the culture of the organization. again, the, the demeanor of the leader has a lot to do with that, especially in tough times

Nick Telford 30:28

I do wanna point out one thing that I also know about the district, and, and the folks who've come through the district, is that there are dozens, uh, upon dozens of folks who've gone through Walnut Valley and have left Walnut Valley, to take up leadership positions at other school districts. I think you, you t- told me these, the stats the other day. Uh, they're really impressive.

Bob Taylor 30:49

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's something, um, I'm proud of. Uh, I'm more comfortable now with it going into my 14th year, uh, than I would've been in my first, second, third, fourth year, 'cause back then it was just scary to lose good people. But I mean, I, I can't... I- it would be, uh, I'd be a hypocrite to talk about developing people and then holding them back from their aspirations and to be able to lead at a higher level and, and cast a bigger net, over people, uh, their influence. And so yeah, we just had, um, one of our, one of our top people, one of our top culture builders, get a, uh, uh, a promotion to another district. I mean, people are sad for, for a while. It's like, "How are we ever gonna replace this person?" And, uh, a lot of that person, a- as so many before him, are irreplaceable. You're not gonna find the same person. but it's our job to, to replace that person and to develop them and, uh, so that that next person, they say the same thing when they get ready to leave. I was at Amazon, this past year, and they said when a person leaves the organization, their goal is to upgrade. And it's really hard to do, but that's our goal is we just lost a great person. We need to find somebody better and which sounds crazy, and maybe we will, maybe we won't, but that's the goal. And, um, yeah, and so we have, superintendents and assistant superintendents, uh, all throughout Southern California now that hopefully their time in Walnut Valley, we've had, some positive influence on them. Probably the most important thing, again, I'm just copying what I had the opportunity to be in a system. I got to work with people like Dr. Kent Beckler, um, who stressed systems and, and people. so if I can pass that on to future generations of leaders, then that's pretty cool. And so I, I feel, I feel much more confident now, uh, than I would have years ago, uh, in terms of our own or- organization in Walnut Valley. But it's, uh, um... I think it's a good thing more globally for, for education

Nick Telford 32:50

I think it's something to be very proud of, and, I really enjoyed that, what you shared about Amazon and having to replace really great talent and the onus being on the district to find someone actually even better because, it's kind of counterintuitive and, and it feels almost like you're, not grateful for the person who's left. But that's not it at all, and actually, it's a service to the students at the end of the day who are gonna be receiving the expertise from that, that leadership that that's why you're doing it.

Bob Taylor 33:17

pick any of the people, but pick our most recent one. He knows, uh, based on our personal conversations, that if I can be of help to him, I will do anything in the world to help him succeed. He's one of our people, and he always will be. But to the rest of the organization, we're gonna be fine. We're, we're gonna, we're gonna go out and replace and, and, uh, uh, the, the, the system's not gonna stop. Um, and so it's kinda talking out of both sides of my mouth. that person knows, and I hope, uh, when he becomes a superintendent, which he will be very soon, uh, that he'll do the same thing, that he'll know that, again, that, um, culture of the district. if everyone looks at me and I'm crying and saying, "What are we gonna do? This person's leaving us," then, uh, I mean, everyone's gonna be sad forever. If I am more positive like, "Hey, super happy for him. Super excited about the opportunity to upgrade here," um, then it, it sets the tone. Now, I might get in my car and go, "There's no way we're gonna upgrade on, on this guy," but that's, that's, that's the goal. And, and the message is, uh, to the organization that we're gonna be okay

Nick Telford 34:18

well, Bob, it has been, it's really enjoyable speaking with you. I, you've, we've referenced a lot of times, um, materials, books, mentors, and I might even, after the podcast, I feel like I should list some of these resources that you've mentioned, so people can actually go and, and, uh, find out what you've, how you've taken these learnings from these materials. And I presume you d- you think it's important for any great leader, you have to, you have to l- learn continuously throughout your time. Uh, it seems like that's really a real pillar, uh, without you saying it, but just how you've talked and what you've shared, you seem really to have leaned into the literature out there around leadership and, and taken a lot of learnings from it.

Bob Taylor 35:02

Yeah, I would say two things. One, ask great questions. You know, I was o- it didn't matter what job I had, I was the guy bugging my boss. Like, "Hey, why did we do that? Why did you make that decision? Why did you say that?" And I think sometimes people are intimidated maybe to go and like, "Hey, the boss doesn't wanna talk to me," or, "My superior doesn't... You know, I'm gonna be bugging her or him." Um, not me. I mean, if they wanna kick me out and tell me to quit asking, which they do sometimes, then that's fine, but I'm gonna ask. And I, I tell people, you know, a lot of people have a front row seat to their next position, and are we taking advantage of that? Are, are we asking questions, and are we learning from those people that we work with every day? Are, are... Of course we are, but are we maximizing it? And then, yeah, staying relevant. Um, one... I, I think a great example is, uh, I was in a superintendent's, m- meeting group, and they gave us the book The Empathy Dilemma, uh, about a year And I was like, "Okay, that's nice," and I kinda stuck it on my shelf, and I thought, "Ah, I know. I, I've, I've studied empathy," you know. I like to at least say I'm an empathetic guy and you know what? There's not... That book, I don't have time to read that book. Like, there can't be. And then I started thinking about, like, why is it a dilemma? When, when is, when has empathy ever been a dilemma? And I got curious, and so, um, I listened to the book, uh, and then I read it, and it's been one of the most, impactful books that, I have read in many, many years. we implement it with our leadership team. Uh, we've shared it with our leadership seminar group that's here. and it's, uh, without going into the details of the book, it's more of an example, I think, for this conversation of that lifelong learning. That, you know, you can... And what it does for me, it just completely inspires me. Like, this is a whole new area that we can, grow ourselves and grow our people that we haven't even touched before. And, um, so yeah, I'm always looking for, you know, there's classics that we use that I love. I mentioned a couple of the classics. But, um, really important that we, um, stay relevant with, um, new, new learnings that are out there.

Nick Telford 37:02

Well, Bob, it's been a, it's been a pleasure. It's a great way to, to wrap things up, continue learning, uh, every day, and, um, have a look at those books on your bookshelf and see maybe it's the right day to get stuck into one of them. thank you for being a guest with us. Thanks for all the leadership you provide to, aspiring superintendents and administrators around the, the state as well. It's-- I've, I've witnessed the work firsthand, and it's, uh, truly remark-remarkable stuff. Uh, it's practical, enjoyable, look forward to seeing you again soon

Bob Taylor 37:32

All right, Nick, thank you for having me. I appreciate you