Gunn Marie Hansen: Westminister School District

What can American school districts learn from education systems in other nations? And what is the most challenging aspect of being a Superintendent?

In this episode, Nick Telford speaks with Gunn Marie Hansen, the veteran Superintendent of Westminster School District. Drawing on her international perspective, Hansen shares her journey to the top office, lessons learned studying schools in Helsinki, and strategies for empowering female leaders. In this episode you'll learn:

• Why the most challenging part of a superintendent's job is managing and motivating people
• How Finland's "whole child" approach and lack of over-assessment fosters incredible equity
• Why female leaders must build strong networks to overcome structural barriers to promotion
• How surviving a contract termination taught Gunn Marie to lead fearlessly with her core values
• Why even veteran superintendents need a coach to confidentially unload and process challenges

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Welcome
02:19 Path to Superintendent
06:07 Learning the Whole Job
07:25 Hardest Part People
10:24 Keeping Teams Motivated
12:28 Global Trends and AI
16:13 League of Innovative Schools
20:33 Leadership Networking and Wrap

Transcript

Ginn Marie HAnsen 0:00

there is no other nation in the world that provides the kind of special education services that we have here, and it's totally free. Like, all means all in the United States. so we have a lot to be proud of, but also we can learn a lot from other nations as well. for instance, I'm part of a, a group, the League of Innovative Schools, and we went to Helsinki, as part of an international study trip, and we learned a great deal about, like, the whole child approach to education, how to balance the academic, and they're doing some great work with AI where it's student-driven, teacher-driven, and they're making a lot of good decisions about how to use it but still hold true to, the academic achievement and the critical thinking that we want our students to have.

0:45

You're listening to School District Superheroes, a podcast that puts the super back in superintendents. In each episode, you'll learn how today's most innovative superintendents are re-imagining what's possible for students, staff, and their communities. And now for your host, Nick Telford.

Nick Telford 1:03

Well, Gun Marie, it's a pleasure to have you on the, uh, School District Superheroes Podcast. Welcome

Ginn Marie HAnsen 1:11

Great to be here. Thank you

Nick Telford 1:13

so one, one, uh, question I always ask the guests on our podcast is, uh, did you have a s- a s- favorite superhero growing up?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 1:21

I would say it had to be Batman. I used to watch those Batman and Robin, you know, like the original ones on TV. It was just incredible. I loved it. And I actually liked Robin. He was, he was a good sidekick.

Nick Telford 1:34

was there any- anything specifically about Batman, uh, or that, that stood out, like why he resonated with you as a, as a superhero?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 1:41

I think it's 'cause they were a team. It wasn't, I mean, it was really Batman, but he couldn't be Batman without Robin. There was really a team there. It wasn't just one superhero. They were, they were definitely working together.

Nick Telford 1:53

Okay. Okay, so you, you appreciate the team dynamics.

Ginn Marie HAnsen 1:56

I do. I do,

Nick Telford 1:57

All right. probably my favorite superhero too, if that's, worth anything. maybe, uh, Gun Marie, uh, we've known each other for, for a number of years, it's been a real pleasure to get to know you and your work as you've worked with a few different school districts as a superintendent. so you are, a veteran in this space and, I'm sure there's lots of people who will really enjoy listening to your perspective on leadership and, on the trends in education that you see today. could you talk us through, your path to being a superintendent and maybe any specific, uh, lessons you learned along the way that, that led you to, taking on this role?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 2:28

those of us that are superintendents right now, and I'm going into my 10th year, if you can believe that, as a superintendent, you know, you have to love the job and love the work because it is a tremendous amount of responsibility. You know, public education is one of the cornerstones of our democracy in the United States, and we definitely have to preserve, maintain, and enhance, and constantly evolve what public education does, because it provides our students with the opportunity to pursue their passions, and their- our students to really, learn as they grow and develop in our public school system what they wanna do with their future lives. And so I love being a superintendent because we can develop amazing programs for our, for our students so that they can explore and engage in activities that, allow them to pursue what they could do in their future. of course, I started out as a teacher, and I was an a s- a teacher at elementary, middle, and high, actually. Taught for almost 10 years and then became an assistant principal and a principal. I was a principal of a dual language immersion school, K-8. so I have an affinity and a love for languages, multilingual education, as well as, cultural proficiency. Really believe that we're operating in a go- global environment, and we need to prepare our students to be, able to access jobs that are becoming more interconnected. went on to become a director, assistant director, and director of curriculum of an instruction. Student achievement is one of the, one of my Most important values in the work that I do is to ensure that students have the ability to attain at high levels, so student achievement was always a big part of my work. And, went on be- to become, after a director of curriculum instruction, to become an assistant superintendent and deputy superintendent over educational services. And I did not become a superintendent until almost nine years, of being on executive cabinet at the assistant superintendent and deputy superintendent level. And, anyway, so my path to becoming a superintendent was really serendipity, I think. Um, I followed, a couple of superintendents that were mentors and really close colleagues and people I admired and, thought they saw something in me and I could be a superintendent. And I actually became the superintendent in Orange Unified in the district where I was a deputy sup and, had been there for nearly, eight years prior to me becoming a superintendent. And then I had about six years as superintendent there, I was deputy. And so it was wonderful to be in an organization where you had built a team, worked with, successful mentors and superintendents along the way. so it was just a wonderful experience, and I, I loved that, opportunity to be in a district where I'd been for a while, almost 13, 14 years when I left. And, I really enjoyed making a change as well. I advise all people to look outside your district, all administrators, take an opportunity to go somewhere else as well to get different perspectives. but there's-- it's an amazing job. It's a lot of work. My path was probably, you know, the traditional path that, most people take, in terms of the educational services background. And, what I did was I immersed myself in those nine years that I was assistant sup and deputy sup- To learn about human resources, to become an expert on position control, hiring, attracting, retaining. I learned about all the other areas of the organization 'cause I was on cabinet for so long. Worked with the business office, incredible CBO, chief business officials in my career, learned about passing bonds, refinancing, certificates of participation, surplus properties, you know, doing budgets for second interims. I really was ready to be a superintendent because I had been able to experience through cabinet, working with my colleagues and learning from them, and I really encourage all of you to do that

Nick Telford 6:57

Well, great. Uh, what really strikes me is you're very diligent to make sure you understood the full picture of what it was gonna be to be a superintendent. You didn't rush into it. You took your time, and as you just described, understanding HR, business, uh, student services, ed services, where you probably spent the most amount of time. Could you isolate any part of the superintendent role, having tried your, you know, dipped your, your toe in each part of it? What was the most challenging for you and, why?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 7:25

Well, I think the most challenging part of the job is not the technical piece. We can all learn, what's the strategy behind financing, particular modernization projects, working with facilities, the complexity of the budget. We can-- And, you know, student services and special ed, and, you know, there's a lot of complexity and technical knowledge that's needed there to lead the work, and that comes with experience. but I would say the most challenging part of the job is, the personnel and ensuring that you have the right people in the jobs within the organization, ensuring that the systems are in place to support the people in the work, and then that there's, a care and consideration and relationship-building component, teamwork, that keeps people excited about the work, and also the accountability. So there's gotta be the accountability and the, you know, the high expectations for our work in public education because ultimately we do have to market our schools. We need to attract students. We need to attract good employees. So we have to have very high expectations for the work and, But with that, we demonstrate care and kindness, and I always say to my team that I wouldn't give you, critical feedback or feedback on your work if I didn't care about you because I want you to be successful. So please take it as my act of kindness and a gift to you to give you feedback because I care enough to do that. I don't wanna see you fail. So it's the people part that through the work we encourage people to be successful and at the same time accountability, and then building those relationships and ensuring within the system that we have the right people in the right positions 'cause people have different strengths and weaknesses, and we really have to ident-identify that as leaders. And so if they're not suited for one particular position, they may have strengths in other areas and, you know, it's really sorting through all that. That is probably the most complex challenging piece, because we, we inherently get our work done by working with people.

Nick Telford 9:45

Yeah. Well, yeah, it, it seems like the, the people part of, uh, the work that's probably the most, uh, difficult to pin down, and again, it's not a science. Uh, it takes experience. What would you... You mentioned one phrase there that I was interested in about peop- keeping people excited about the work. that, you know, when things get tough, obviously that is hard, especially with the hours that educators have to put in and the fact they're dealing with parents and, uh, everything that goes into, you know, a school and, and overseeing a s- a, a number of schools. How do you keep people excited, uh, and motivated to keep doing that great work?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 10:24

Well, it's all about creating a team, and that's why I said who my superhero was. It wasn't just one. It's all about creating a team, and on executive cabinet, allowing your team... I work the most closely with my executive cabinet, and so allowing them to come to the table with any and all issues that are important for us to discuss. Valuing, valuing them in creating, that space where they feel they can bring ideas forward, you know, challenges and ideas, so we can talk about it and work through it. so creating that, and then humor. those people who have worked with me know that I appreciate joking around a little bit in order to lighten the pressure 'cause our work does have immense pressure, but we can't take it too seriously. You know, when we come back to work the next day, the same problems will be there, and we'll keep at it, And we need to realize that this is, a labor of love. We are here because we love the students, and we are going to get it done. We're gonna get it done right. It may take time, and we're gonna work together. So that's kind of like the team atmosphere that you build. But there's also, like within the system, we build, really fun events. Like here in Westminster School District, we have a great, district office team. Like, we just had a summer bash where our maintenance crew came out and barbecued for all our, district office staff, and we had games and cornhole. So we try to do fun things together because we wanna build that, those moments of experience where we are connecting with each other, and that's part of our core values of our strategic plan is connect, that we feel we are all connected in our work, and we wanna build opportunities for us to engage, and so that we all We know each other more than just through the work but as people, and we relate to each other.

Nick Telford 12:22

No, fa-

Ginn Marie HAnsen 12:22

You have to create... Sometimes you have to create those experiences.

Nick Telford 12:26

Sure. Yeah, no, 100%. I know you're, originally from Norway, and, uh, you mentioned earlier on in, uh, you know, our conversation how, education was such a cornerstone of our democracy. And, uh, you've, you've touched on as well the global importance of education and preparing kids the world. Could you maybe de- delve a little bit more into the importance of education, any trends that you see in education today that you think people should take notice of and pay attention to, and as leaders and people involved in education should, uh, just ensure that there's awareness around?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 13:03

Well, that's a great question, Nick. There's so much to that. yes, I'm from Norway, so I do value, sort of that international global perspective. And I do think with where we are right now with technology and AI, and that could be like a whole nother conversation, but there is-- you know, things are changing so rapidly in our environment, and we need to ensure that we prepare students for the future. And, you know, the problem with any huge system is that you get-- you can have some inertia or some stagnant thinking, like this is the way we've always done things, or, you know, the traditional concept of education and how we've always worked through, you know, the classroom experience. It has to look a certain way. I really think the biggest, opportunity we have moving fu-to the future, like a future-ready school environment, is this whole idea of how we integrate the critical thinking and the human part of our, our experiences, you know, as we think through how we use AI to expose and, prepare our students for the future. And, many countr- We can learn from many countries. So in the United States, we have probably one of the most premier exclusive education systems in the world, right? Much of that is private education, at the higher level, at higher education. But we are also known for outstanding public schools that are free, open to all students, equity-driven, equity-minded. Like, there is no other nation in the world that provides the kind of special education services that we have here, and it's totally free. Like, all means all in the United States. All kids get... That-- There's no other place that does that. so we have a lot to be proud of, but also we can learn a lot from other nations as well. And, for instance, I, I'm part of a, a group, the League of Innovative Schools, and we went to Helsinki, as part of an international study trip, and we learned a great deal about, like, the whole child approach to education, how to balance the academic, and they're doing some great work with AI where it's student-driven, teacher-driven, and they're making a lot of good decisions about how to use it but still hold true to, the academic achievement and the critical thinking that we want our students to have. So there's a lot of connections there, and I find it very exciting because ultimately in public education, we have to evolve, we have to be nimble, we have to be able to respond to all these changes in our environment because that's where our students will be. The way I learned when I was growing up is not the way the students these days are learning, and I have to be able to understand that. So I think it's a very exciting time in education, and we just have to be open to all the possibilities and look at different models

Nick Telford 16:12

That's fascinating. I, I didn't, uh... I'd love to know a bit more about the League of International Schools. has there been-- uh, what, what else could you maybe dive into that a little bit more in terms of anything else that you took

Ginn Marie HAnsen 16:22

Yeah. It's, it's the, the League of Innovative Schools.

Nick Telford 16:27

sorry, innovator schools. Thank you. Well,

Ginn Marie HAnsen 16:29

Yeah, so the League of Innovative Schools is a group of about 100 or so, uh, superintendents with their districts that meet, a couple of times a year. And, and then we also are part of implementation cohorts. We also get information on research studies, cutting-edge, projects, and new curriculum that we, uh, can participate in. And we have our teachers do... Like for instance, I had a group of teachers work on literacy and AI with a new tool. Uh, my ed tech director is working with, some blended learning models. we get research from them, ideas, professional development. It's a network. We visit each other's districts. We have two convenings a year where we visit each other's districts and learn about, like, career technical education pathways, a number of, really important areas within education. So it's a wonderful group, which I've been part of since my prior district and in Westminster School District,

Nick Telford 17:29

going abroad to these schools, what stood out? And have you traveled abroad outside of the US to any other, uh, countries? But if not, was there anything else from spending time in Helsinki that... I think it's in Finland, right? Helsinki?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 17:43

Yes. Hel- Helsinki's the capital of Finland. And

Nick Telford 17:47

and Finnish are renowned for having it, like, one of the most innovative education systems in the world, right?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 17:51

Yes, they are. And they, I think it was, like, 20 years ago, uh, when the PISA results, which those are the, you know, international benchmarking tests. They had some-- I think they were the n-number one country. and they focused heavily after World War II on building a, a, an incredible world, world-class education system modeled after, just international benchmarking and looking at what methods work. and they are renowned for, being out of the box. Like, for instance, they don't over-assess their students. They assess students, towards the end of their high school career. They get one assessment. teacher education is actually, one of the highest, uh, prestige occupations. So going to the University of Helsinki in the teacher education program is highly competitive. you know, there's very few people that get in there. It's like being an attorney or a medical doctor. It's very prestigious. they have a national curriculum, so there's built-in equity in the system because every school follows a national curriculum. Teachers have autonomy, though, on how to teach it, but they have to cover certain grade level expectations every year. And, it's, it's taught at the teacher colleges at the university how to implement their rigorous curriculum. So there's a lot of uniformity, and there's a lot of equity because of that. there's just a lot of incredible things, and then they focus on, of course, the whole child, which means they believe in play and development, like in the early ages. They don't start, you know, the reading until maybe, like, first grade. there's a lot of developmental, child development approaches, and then they believe in playful learning, that kids create their learning at an early age, so kind of like the Montessori approach that we have here, in the United States. So it, it's-- There's so many learnings, it's just incredible. And I have to thank the League of Innovative Schools being part of that group.

Nick Telford 20:04

Fantastic. Well, I'm glad that you're bringing that expertise, uh, to Orange County, uh, here in California. so it, it, it really stands out to me in this discussion that you're a person that values teamwork, values collaboration, values working with others, values getting the perspective of, others and other institutions, other countries, other education systems, which seems to me like extremely valuable leadership, uh, uh, lessons, uh, to take, to take from that. I wonder, are there any other particular leadership, uh, lessons that you would wanna share with aspiring administrators that are looking to become a superintendent that you found important in your career so far?

Ginn Marie HAnsen 20:46

Well, I would say, you know, there's a couple of things if you wanna become a superintendent is, you really have to have the heart for it. I mean, there's a lot of brilliant people out there, but you really It, it has to be It can't just be a job. You know? You have to really believe that you're, you're the CEO, and that what you do is manage everything and lead with heart because you need to make sure every single student receives a world-class education, and that is your job. And that means being innovative, creative, and doing whatever you can to collaborate with the adults in the organization to make that a reality. And I would just say that, as far as the superintendent, becoming that job and what you need, you know, to aspire to be there, is take your time. you know, everybody wants to You know, the younger generation, they're very, they're very ambitious, they're smart, and they wanna get there. But I would say take your time and learn from mentors and colleagues. Spend the time building your network 'Cause you're gonna need those people. Those are the advisors that are gonna help you through the tough times. So you need to take your time. You need to sit in the seats within the organization, get experience, and also build your network of, critical advisors, mentors, and particularly female leaders that, as you're stepping into these roles, build your network of female leaders that can help you because, we have, uh, some other challenges within the organization related to opportunities. And I, I would not say it is a It, it is more of a structural issue for women that we don't necessarily apply for certain positions because we don't feel we're ready yet. but we do have that drive and ambition. And when you surround yourself with a, a group of female leaders, that is very helpful to help build up that capacity. and then I would just end with, don't hold on too tightly to the job. just in my experience, what I've been through, and, uh, many of the people who are watching this will know that, I had a, a contract termination. and I would say that sometimes things that happen to you that may not feel good, look good, or, or, seem like your career might be a challenge as a result of that- Believe in yourself and don't give up on your values and what you truly believe in, in public education about what your goals are. What we're learning more and more now is that there are cultural, political, there's pressures, and sometimes you have to stand up and don't hold on to the job that tightly. Always do what's best for you and your core values and what you believe in the system. And, things that might look bad one day, which was, you know, like a horrible circumstance that maybe something goes bad in your career, you can survive it, and you will come back even stronger. That sometimes challenges are leading to even better opportunities for you. So that's one advice I want to give, is that stand up to your core... You know, live your core values, stand up for what you believe in, and realize that on the other side, there might be even better things for you

Nick Telford 24:27

Yeah. That's great advice. Uh, really, really is, and spoken, you know, you've, you've went through the ring of fire yourself, so it's, it's even more pertinent that you would, uh, certainly know what you're talking about, uh, from experience. You, you mentioned, like you mentioned a few things there about being the CEO of, these schools and, building a network. so there's obviously a fair-- There's a, there's like a almost a business, uh, savviness required the superintendent role. but building that network I think is really interesting and, and super, and super important for, uh, folks. Just I've seen that even in, in my time in, the K-12 space. But a lot of people don't even know where to start when it comes to building a network. Like, could you give any advice as to how to go about doing that and, why it's important? And, and maybe on the, you, you mentioned female leaders, if there's any, any advice you'd have for, uh, women looking to make that transition to administration.

Ginn Marie HAnsen 25:22

Yeah. Okay. So the network is actually critical. It is, it is extremely important. So as you're growing your future, like as, as a future administrator, what's really important is that you join certain professional organizations and go to, you know, conferences, present at conferences. So for instance, ACSA, that's our administrative organization there. there's a lot of opportunities to get involved with your local ACSA and then the state organization. They're incredible. Lots of amazing leaders there to connect with. There's also like, the California Association of, Latino Superintendents, uh, CALSA, which is an incredible group, also for superintendents and administrators. There's other affinity groups, uh, for African American. There's female leader groups. There's, the Asian American. There's so many different groups you need to, ensure that you get involved 'cause not only are you working day to day in your organization, in your district, in your school, but you need to be involved outside to, to have those professional networks. And then I would also say getting a doctorate, is a profound experience because you meet... For instance, I mean, I love USC. My husband and I met at USC. I'm a big USC fan, so I got my doctorate at USC. I got a PhD there. It's been years, but, I would say that that experience, connected me with so many incredible people. when you go through the doctoral program, you meet people that are engaged in serious, like, research, and you start to talk about ideas, and you share ideas, and you meet, you meet incredible people that are engaged in the same work as you. And, and then you also meet like retired superintendents that are professors. you, you get to engage with them. They have a whole nother network that you can get involved in when you start to work with retired, superintendents that are out there doing consulting. There's many, many groups, to get involved in, and it's absolutely critical because they help mentor you, they help expose you, they help introduce you to a whole nother world of individuals. And particularly female leaders, I think what we need to realize is, There's no lack of ambition for our female leaders. We, we wa- we want to promote, we want to be successful. I mean, I see incredible fema- female leaders that it just takes longer, it's harder, and there aren't as many opportunities for us within, some of the, uh, higher ed- or some of the, education spaces. So really those conversations that you have with other female leaders that help to, share different strategies about how to get into certain organizations, certain, particular districts. There's different dynamics in Every district has its culture. There's different dynamics, and those are things that are really important in female leadership to talk through when you're aspiring, 'cause there is no lack of ambition and aspirations from our female leaders in education. it's, it's the opportunities that are out there and understanding how to go for it is really those conversations with, other female leaders

Nick Telford 28:59

what was it earlier on, you talked about mentorship, and so I presume for you, this networking is very closely tied to the mentorship. And I know that in some of these organizations you mentioned, in CALSA, ACSA, there are mentorship programs and the importance of having a mentor, maybe just touching on that

Ginn Marie HAnsen 29:15

I think, you know, mentor, coach, whatever you wanna call it, I mean, I've been a superintendent almost 10 years now. I still have a coach. the greatest athletes in the world who, uh, you know, are on their game, Michael Jordan, you know, he had a coach the whole time. These incredible FIFA soccer players, they have coaches. You know, they're at the top of their game. So I think mentoring, coaching, whatever it is that we wanna call that, it's really that relationship with someone that you can go to and have challenging conversations and share exactly what's happening. And, you know, whatever challenges that are in your job, you can share and just have that critical kind of relationship that they can tell you, "Hey, have you thought about this?" Because sometimes when you're so deep in problems, you may not see, really what's, what's behind it, and you... There's always been somebody who's been in your place, too. so having that coaching is absolutely critical. And actually having, like, one or two people that you can actually, you know, just have, like, an, you know, just unload. You need one or two people you can just unload everything on, and you know it's completely confidential. It's really important. and it doesn't matter at what point you are in the organization, if you're a superintendent or you're a teacher, that's, that's a career, that's a career coach, and everybody needs one. Doesn't matter where you are in the organization or your career. You know, I'm probably gonna retire in three or four or five years. I'm not sure. And I'm still talking to a coach I've known for almost 20 years

Nick Telford 31:04

And I'm sure there'll be many people listening that, uh, especially when you retire, if not before then, will be, will be pinging you looking for, uh, mentorship advice and, uh, guidance because this has been a really, uh, engaging and impressive conversation, Gun-Marie. I've really enjoyed it. Uh, I think you've hit on so many different topics for folks listening that might want to go down this pa- this path and given some real, uh, practical advice and, uh, and shone a light on the importance of looking outside for inspiration and guidance on how to be a great leader. So I really appreciate this conversation and, I know that we've got World Cup games to catch up on. We've got your Norway beat Brazil and Haaland, uh, score a few more hat tricks before the World Cup is over. So, I'll let you go, uh, prepare for those, those celebrations. And, uh, it's been a pleasure speaking with you, and thanks for joining us on the, School District Superheroes podcast

Ginn Marie HAnsen 31:53

Thank you so much, Nick. Really love being with you today