Are You Prepared? USCCA's Bold Promise with Rob Chadwick and Steve Fischer

The Amateurs and Experts podcast hosts, Jessica Adanich and Erica Chin interviews Steve Fischer and Rob Chadwick from the USCCA at SHOT Show 2025. They discuss the USCCA's mission to empower citizens through self-defense training and liability insurance, highlighting the importance of preparedness in today's society. The conversation delves into the organization's history, its commitment to training, and its innovative approach to non-lethal defense options, aiming to equip members with every tool for personal safety.

A special thank you to Otis Technology for providing an amazing space to make podcast magic at SHOT Show 2025.

Links

• USCCA Website: https://www.uscca.com/

• USCCA Training: https://www.uscca.com/training

Key Takeaways

• Preparedness is paramount: Individuals should proactively seek training and resources for self-defense.

• USCCA offers comprehensive support: Beyond firearms, they provide extensive training and crucial liability insurance.

• Non-lethal options are valuable: Expanding self-defense to include tools for various situations is important.

• Empowerment through training: Learning self-defense builds confidence and competence, especially for vulnerable groups.

• Due diligence is essential: Always research and understand the services and policies of any organization, especially regarding insurance and training.

Key words used during this podcast: SHOT Show, podcast, Otis Technology, USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association), Second Amendment, self-defense, training, concealed carry, instructor, law enforcement, FBI, non-lethal, pepper spray, taser, Berna, Sabre, ASP, firearms, insurance, liability, defense, members.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast. We are at SHOT Show 2025. Excited to be here. Otis uh technology booth is amazing that they um donate to us every year. So we could sit here and uh talk to some cool people. I'm here with Jessica Atnich.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Yes, and we're also excited to be at Otis because it is their 40th anniversary this year, so we're happy to celebrate that with them.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

And we have Steve and Rob from USCCA.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Thank you for the opportunity, guys. Great setup, by the way. This is pretty impressive right here in the middle of the SHAT show and people walking around and it's very professional setup, so appreciate the opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

It's quite the dynamic because then you met us.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

I know, and I feel like I'm half brain dead already, and it's only day two.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

It's the SHOT Show effect.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Lots of walking, lots of talk, and completely showing it. So everybody understands we're in like a plexiglass enclosure with all these people walking by, and I feel like the fishbowl. Yeah, a zoo animal, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Like we're mere cats.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Like last year, people people walked by in with they were acting like they were licking the windows. Oh jeez.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Oh really? Our first year in this booth was last year, and you know, of course, you go to shot for over a decade, you have a lot of friends, and the amount of ridiculousness that happens at the windows, so I think that's probably a good reason why we have guests faced this way. Really good. So you aren't a little distracted.

SPEAKER_01 1:39

You guys are the pros. You can don't know about that. I'm not gonna lie though, Rob, it's a little uncomfortable because typically what we teach when we're teaching um how to be your own personal defender is that when you enter into a public space, you are entering and seating yourself in a place where you can see everything that's going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I have confidence in these two. Yeah, yeah. I do. That's pretty good. Yeah, I'm I'm he's on the back. Yeah. I'm a little nervous.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

I would too. I mean, honestly, I do the same thing. Like, you got me, you got me. And if I don't trust that person, they don't got me.

unknown 2:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

So all the movement behind me is like making me want to turn around. That's a that's just your ADD, man. Just so all you guys know, before I was turning around looking at people, and Rob pointed at the uh microphone and he's like, listen. You can take it with you though. I can't.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

If you want to carry it. You can travel. If you want to turn around, actually spin the chair around and just be paying.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Do not encourage him to do that.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Anyway, these guys are gracious to come here. Um most of most of our board actually went to the media breakfast this morning that you had. Um unfortunately we couldn't make it because we were up here. But um We heard it was great. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

No, it was uh it was an early morning, especially after the first big day at SHAT Show, so appreciate you guys coming out. And USCCA, which is the United States Concealed Carry Association, is a big sponsor of SHAT Show and has been for years. Yes. It's just such a great uh environment and you know to be with like-minded individuals and companies, and uh it's so important you know, now more than ever, obviously, in the United States to support the Second Amendment. And so yeah, we're very, very proud to be here and support this event as well.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Rob, USCCA has been around for a long time. And actually me and my husband were we're members, and um we've been we're we've been longtime members also. Um and last year when we came, it was the first time that I uh that I actually knew that you had all this training and great stuff on just on my phone. So I was at the booth and they were telling me about it and stuff like that and showed me how I could access all the training that you guys do. Um and I know I was excited to see Steve here because I've seen his face on a bunch of um, you know, training um Facebook, all that stuff in my area.

SPEAKER_00 3:59

Well, Steve is the face of USCCA training. He started it. So, and and for for those of your listeners who don't, you know, maybe not aren't familiar with us, uh the USCCA started about 22 years ago, and about what, 12, 13 years ago, the the training department sort of started under Steve Fisher and has grown tremendously. Um and and then about a year and a half ago, uh I I retired a little bit uh ago from the FBI. I had the opportunity to work um at Quantico, and and when I retired, I was looking for you know what am I gonna do?

SPEAKER_03 4:32

Because you can't just retire.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Right. Well, I I just you know I enjoyed what I was doing and I had the tremendous opportunity to get some great training. His wife kicked him out of that.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Let's be real, well be real here, real talk.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

But uh, you know, you had this incredible gift of training that you know the taxpayers paid for, and and I felt like I still had something to give and had the just an incredible opportunity to meet these guys at SHAT Show a couple of years ago, and was very impressed by just first the overall quality of people that are in the company, and then the mission of training our fellow citizens. And so I had the great fortune of being selected to be the director of training and education for the USCCA. That's amazing. It really is, and and now more than ever, obviously, with police response times doubling and just all the chaos that's happening. We want to, our mission is to help people out there understand what they can do to become confident and competent in their own self-defense.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

And I was surprised because there's not a lot of training programs in my area, and to see how you guys are kind of infiltrating the area for training, you know, whether it's self-defense, whether it's women's training and things like that, I was just like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

We launched our instructor support materials, we call it an instructor toolkit in 2012, February of 2012. And the second person that bought that toolkit happened to be part of the our competitive training organization, Who Shall Go Unnamed. And he had called me and he said, What are you trying to accomplish here? And I said, I'm trying to help instructors, we're trying to help instructors to be the best versions of themselves. So he said, it's a great idea. He said, but have you thought before you saw these two people that you didn't know that maybe you should have uh some training that goes along with it? And I'm like, ah, yes, good idea. So a year later, then we launched our first instructor certification class, and that was in November of 2013. And September of 2015, we we launched our first train to trainer class. And we scaled the program since then. We've certified over 30,000 instructors, men and women, all over the nation. We've had our course materials recognized in, is it 40? 47, 48. Yeah. Almost every state. I mean, there are states out there that aren't real friendly to conceal carry, the idea of concealed carry. Um, but we've successfully turned ourselves into a national training organization in a handful of years. And out of all of those instructors that we've certified, a very good percentage of them are women. As a matter of fact, we've had relationships with the well-armed women, with a girl and a gun, um, with shoot like a girl, just to name a few. And they've all been wonderful at supporting our mission, which is to save lives, teach people how to survive a violent encounter, how to prevent it actually first, and then if you can't avoid it, then how to be able to successfully survive it. The idea of enlisting um women to be a part of our training organization, um, I think it's critical to the success of our mission.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Oh, no question. I it's why I'm here. So I'll tell you two quick stories why I'm continuing to do what I do, and and so one of them was sort of foundational for me. Uh when I was growing up, very close to my grandparents, and um my grandfather passed away when I was a teenager, a young teenager, and I saw my grandmother, who had been a you know very powerful, almost a force of nature, she lost her protector. And and you know, that generation was very, very much that way. And and I, you know, as a kid, I didn't understand, I thought she was just lonely. But what I perceived later when I went off to college uh was that she was afraid. And I saw the the quality of life that was and the enjoyment that was taken from her because she was afraid. She couldn't protect herself or defend herself. Now, my my uncles were policemen, I became a policeman, and we we actually got her a pistol, a revolver, uh, and and we trained her on it, and we made sure she could use it and she was confident in it, and I saw a little bit more of enjoyment, a little bit more confidence. And then fast forward, uh just a few years ago, when I was going off to Quantico, uh, my youngest daughter and my wife stayed back in South Carolina so she could finish high school. And when I was leaving, and and her older brother was the captain of the wrestling team, and so while they were in high school together, she felt like she had some top cover. And so, well, he went off to college and she was home by herself when COVID hit. And so she had to finish her high school career by herself. Mom worked out of the house, I was 500 miles away at Quantico, and I saw this kid again, very vivacious, you know, really confident, and it I she was a different, different person. And so we talked about it, she said, I'm really, I'm really kind of nervous, Dad. I feel so isolated, I kind of scared. So, you know, I didn't want to, you know, my background at Quantico, very familiar with firearms, but I didn't want to force it on her. So I said, Hey kid, would you like to go learn how to shoot a gun? Would you feel more confident? Yes.

SPEAKER_04 9:48

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Right? And so she was sort of a fan of The Walking Dead. And so she said, I want Rick Grimes' gun, right? So we went and got her a stainless steel, 357. Now I put 38s in there for the training, right?

SPEAKER_04 10:02

Yeah, yeah, okay, quick call.

SPEAKER_00 10:03

But we went, we went to a friend's farm for a day and spent a few hours on the range, and that kid went from never shot a gun before to knocking the X out of the circle.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

And the feeling of empowerment and just confidence that, okay, yeah, we got her a fast action safe, downstairs and upstairs, we had a plan. You do this decisively do, you are in control, different kid. And so that was just such a microcosm of why we do what we do. Not just for women, for everybody. Everyone wants to know that they can take care of themselves, right? That's fundamental to enjoying what it is to be an American.

SPEAKER_02 10:43

So I love that you guys have the training to back it up, but also you have the insurance side of it. Yes. So when um when uh several years ago my husband said, okay, we have this insurance now. And um and he was the one that was per he promoted you guys without you guys knowing it. Well, thank you. And with tell everybody like you really need to be insured.

SPEAKER_04 11:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

You know, because I'm we're from California. So everybody, I mean, is it better to be, you know, carried by six or tried by twelve, right? Oh yeah. And um, you know, you don't want to have to think about that or you know, not have somebody in your corner. Yes. And um, you know, like I was telling telling you, Rob, we've heard some some things that that had happened over the year. Oh, yeah. And um, and so I just want to, you know, see what are you guys doing about um the insurance side of it and um you know to to actually for your membership, you know. For and like for me, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, you know.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Well, and and you know, this there's a lot of negativity out there, unfortunately, right now. And it's it's discouraging uh because I truly believe it's disingenuous. But I want I want everyone to do their own, just do your own research. Don't don't listen to the pundits, don't just take someone's word, don't take my word for it, do your own research. And and so when when to to so your under sorry, your listeners understand when you join the USCCA, right, you become a member, you're automatically covered by what I believe is the best self-defense liability insurance policy in the business, right? Unlimited criminal defense, unlimited civil defense, red flag protections, we have an unrivaled network of attorneys all over the country who have defended thousands of our members in criminal actions brought against them because of a self-defense case, right? So if you are involved in a legal, lawful act of self-defense, then we will defend you tooth and nail, right? And so unfortunately, we had you know an incident several years back that I believe firmly, and again, do your research, the court documents are there to look at yourself, and I believe a reasonable person would conclude that the right decision was made. And so it is illegal for someone to obtain insurance and then intentionally commit an act, right? You can't go get car insurance and intentionally crash it or have it stolen. Same thing with self-defense liability insurance. So, you know, you can't go out and buy this policy and then intentionally go do something, right? So that's it, a lot of hay has been made about this, and I totally understand, right? There's money to be made, so things are gonna happen, and um but when I came out of the FBI, when I came, so I did 30 years in law enforcement, I always had whether it was qualified immunity or a big government organization to back me up if I was involved in a in a righteous use of force. The minute I drove south from Quantico that day, I realized, oh, oh boy, I'm really on my own. And thank goodness I found the USCCA. Uh there are other companies out there, and they're good. You know, not everybody's gonna be right for the USCCA, and that's fine. I would encourage every single gun owner out there. If you own a gun, you should have some type of self-defense liability insurance policy. Absolutely. Do your research, check them all out. Of course, I believe we're the best. Uh, and I do, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't. Uh but you know, don't take my word for it. Do your research and don't just listen to these, you know, pundits on listen, these guys are great, they make their money by getting clicks and outrage, outrage media is unfortunately the flavor of the month, or maybe forever. Uh but I would encourage people to go online, dig a little deeper, find those court documents. You can find them on our website, right? There's a great link to a completely independent discussion, some other podcast. They did such a great job of diving deep and really examining, you can take anything out of context. And so you mentioned the insurance product. One of the lessons learned that USCCA had was, you know what, our language in our policy is misleading, or I won't say misleading, it's confusing to the layperson. And so, you know, in self-reflection, and this is actually version 15.0, right, we're constantly looking to improve and evolve. And so our team went back and said, how can we change this language so people understand that the whole reason you have self-defense liability insurance is if you're charged with a crime related to self-defense. Okay? And so, like I said, there's a lot of controversy out there, and we are very actively. So the USCCA is very much like my old organization, the FBI, right? No comment. We just we don't comment on that, especially when there's an active member, right? There's there's still a case that's going on that we don't talk about because it's a member in good standing. And so I was initially proud, like, hey, you know what? Yeah, stay out of the gutter, don't, don't respond to this stuff. It'll, it'll, it'll, because everyone knows that this is, you know, the way it is. Nope. That's a lot of hay was made, and unfortunately, in the absence of information, the imagination will fill in the blanks, or other people who have money to be made will fill in the blanks for you, right? And so, like I said, do your own research, pull up those diagonals. Look at this, look at the look at the links on our website. We have literally thousands of examples right from the people who were defended by the USCCA. USCCA attorneys themselves talk about it. I'm actually getting ready to do an interview next week of really interesting case. I'm interviewing the uh victim or our member, I believe was victimized by the by the justice system and the attorney, and that whole story of what that's like and how we respond, and and and these guys were there for us. So I really believe it's a truly great company, it is absolutely devoted, utterly devoted to the Second Amendment, and uh I'm I'm proud to be part of it.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

I appreciate your candidness.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

I was just gonna say that I I appreciate the response honest and that we can have this conversation, right? And because I think in today's world we've gotten so used to, especially with technology and social media, unfortunately, we see a post and we read a headline and we take it for fact. Whereas I think just like in politics, no matter who you're voting for, city up to, state government, national government, you should do your own research. And so the fact that you're like, hey, go to our website, read, make your own decision, just like we interview other firearms companies here and they're like, yeah, we love our brand of gun, but do your own research. Go out and try somebody else's, go shoot it, just like different training courses, depending on if you're 17 versus 87, find what works for you. So to be able to say, go to our website, it's all right there, we stand for what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Or even go to the court's website. There are gonna be some skeptics out, hey, their website, I doctored. And I understand too, listen, there are people out there like this guy's a former FBI agent, we can't trust him. Listen, I and I listen, there's a lot that needs to be cleaned up with the FBI, 100%, right? But I will tell you, you know, I grew up, I was a Boy Scout, I was a Boy Scout leader, I have my family was military, like bleed red, white, and blue, and I'm so proud to be part of this company that I know does the right thing every time. Uh we have our detractors. What drives me nuts is there's so much room in this space for all, you know, we're all in this building together at SHACO. Should be rowing in the same direction. Yes. It's disappointing when some things are taken out of context.

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Um yeah, basically, it's disappointing, but it's not surprising at all. Not surprising at all. So, and I choose to look at things I I try every day. I wake up and I and I say my prayers to keep me positive. We have approaching 900,000 members right now. And if you could speak to any of them, I'm sure they're gonna tell you that the service that we provide them is unprecedented. The people that work at the USCCA, I mean, we hire core value fits. We hire people that understand the culture, the servant mentality. Our existence is to take care of our members. And we do our best within the guidelines and limits of the law. And you can go, like Rob said, onto our website and you can read hundreds of testimonials from members who have had to unfortunately have the experience that called for them to utilize that benefit. It speaks for itself. And that 900,000 that we're approaching right now, it's that number, I still remember when we launched uh the insurance benefit in, we did it on D-Day, June 6th of 2011. And prior to that, the membership just was a subscription to the magazine and then an opportunity to be able to buy discounted educational products. When we launched the insurance benefit, and we said we weren't going to honor one year membership expired from the previous, people were upset with us. And we went from like 50,000 people down to around 10 to 15,000 people. But since that day in 2011, we've grown steadily. We we're the numbers are staggering, and the only way that that can happen is if you're doing things the right things the right way. So, and when you do get to the top, there's always somebody that's gonna try to knock you off at the top. Some do it with good moral and ethical decisions, some go the opposite way.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

So that leads me to this question: what is gonna happen in 2025? What what do you guys have going on?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

From an education and training standpoint, all of it.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

All of it.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

What do you exciting stuff? I I am thrilled to be here. So I my my journey to the USCCA started as an instructor. When I was retiring from Quantico, I wanted to continue training civilians, and I got sort of I was gonna go NRA because that's how I grew up. I mean, I was went to Boy Scout camp, and but I had a friend from Quantico who was an instructor for the USCCA, a training counselor. So I attended that, really impressed, and a few years later here I am, right? That's awesome. And that journey that becoming an instructor showed me, hey, really impressive, but work to do. And so I am committed to uh completely overhauling what it means to be a USCCA instructor. I think we're good, we can be great, and so we are putting a lot of work into uh the pre the front end, training people how to really teach. Because right now you go through CCHDF, which is our concealed carry home defense fundamentals, excellent program, but there needs to be more. There needs to be, you know. Adult learning theory, there needs to be classroom management, that sort of stuff we're going to bake into the front end. Really innovative technology coming out with that, I'm excited. We're going to completely overhaul our training counselor program. And then probably most exciting, you know, especially here at SHACHO, we just announced this morning, we have partnered with the four biggest players in the non-legal space. So we have ASP, Berna, Sabre, and Taser. All right? And so as a policeman, yeah, so I carried an ASP, a Taser, and a Saber, can of pepper spray, and now of course Berna came on the scene after I left. But those are the big four names, right? That's almost like Kleenex, Coke, Xerox. Yes. And we have partnered with them to be their training partner. So Steve and I have been working for the last year and a half on putting together a USCCA non-lethal weapons instructor program. Wow. And so you could come and love to have you guys come through. You get certified in all four platforms, all right? And then you have the ability as an instructor to teach all of them together, right, in four different modules or break them out, right? I'm just going to teach a pepper spray class, I'm just going to teach a taser class, whatever that is. And of course, we want to take care of our instructors out there. So ability to act as a almost a distributor for these companies, make a little extra money there. And it also provides our gun carriers with those options for what to carry when you can't carry. Non-permissive environments, situations that don't require firearms. So we want people to have every option and the absolute best training. And all of those companies sent their trainers to our headquarters. We went through their master instructor schools and have combined them all into one certification. And so you'll see later this, actually next month, we'll start rolling out our instructor certifications for that credential. And then those instructors will be all over the country giving these end-user classes on how to use a can of pepper spray, how to use a taser, how to use an ask be your own defender, right?

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Oh, just get a firearm. Well, not everybody has the practice, the training, or the confidence. Right. Because it's much different, you say all the time, to go to the range and sit in a controlled environment and shoot is much different than that unknown situation that's going to happen to you when your adrenaline's running and you're then gonna go into kung fu mode. So being able to maybe have some other options for you that you can build your confidence, that muscle memory of responding to an instant a situation, then move up to a firearm when you're ready. And also the what comes after. We spoke to, I don't know who it was yesterday, but when you pull it, you have to be ready to pull the trigger. And are you ready for that? And are you also ready to take a life? So there's a lot of different things to think about, whereas maybe pepper spray, spray, get away. You know, a lot of different options there.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah, you think about like the burner launcher, for example, right? Which is a really innovative uh piece of equipment that launches a pretty high caliber projectile, I think 60 caliber projectile.

unknown 25:16

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

And it, you know, pepper ball inside it. Um and it's a standoff weapon. But you know, the first time you use that, you don't want that to be for all the marbles, right? So you better get proficient in it, know how to load it, how to shoot it, how to reload it.

SPEAKER_03 25:31

Yeah, it's not a nerf gun.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

And it's if you're using it, it's a serious situation. So all of those tools you want to be very confident in, and the first time you use it under stress, you're not gonna be as as effective as you are at the range.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

You need to be educated on how to, when to, and then you need to practice. So you need to develop the skills, and then as in any skill development, it's depreciable. Depreciable? Did I say that word? That's a good word. Good, proud of you. I had a tooth pulled not too long ago, so when I'm talking now, it sounds like I'm slurring. This true story. I I didn't drink last night. That's not a true story.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Even Las Vegas. Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:13

It's been great having you guys on our podcast. And um, if somebody wants to get a hold of you guys or USCCA or find your training programs, how could they do that?

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Best place to start is USCCA.com slash training, slash training. Yeah, slash training. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you guys so much for the opportunity to be on here and what you do and the audience you serve, and and and again, have a great SHA show.

SPEAKER_03 26:37

Yeah, thank you. Thank you for what all that you guys do and for your service.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Come and see us.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Come on over and see us. Thanks so much. Thank you.