The Fatal Mistake You Can't Afford to Make with Otis Technology CEO, Bill Kleftis

Have you ever considered what it truly means to be a responsible gun owner? In a special episode recorded at SHOT Show 2025, the hosts of "Amateurs and Experts" sit down with CEO, Bill Kleftis, from Otis Technology. They learn about how Otis Technology has been making top-notch cleaning products for 40 years and how they're now offering a new, more affordable brand called Shooter's Choice for people who are just starting out.

He also shares his insights as a firearms trainer, emphasizing that being a responsible gun owner goes far beyond marksmanship. The conversation covers the critical importance of situational awareness, de-escalation, and first-aid training, states that avoiding a threat is always better than having to respond to one.

The episode touches on the unique challenges women face with concealed carry and highlights the need for dedicated training and products for this growing demographic. Kleftis also cautions against using low-quality cleaning products, which can compromise a firearm's reliability. The discussion concludes by reinforcing the need for responsible firearm ownership that includes a complete understanding of the legal, moral, and practical aspects.

A special thank you to Otis Technology for providing an amazing space to make podcast magic at SHOT Show 2025.

Otis Technology website: OtisTech.com.Bill Kleftis' email: firearmstrainer@verizon.net.

Takeaways:

• Otis Technology has been in business for 40 years, supporting the military for nearly 30 years.
• The Shooters Choice brand offers a more affordable option for new shooters.
• Proper firearm cleaning is essential for reliability and performance.
• Training goes beyond marksmanship; it includes situational awareness and adaptability.
• Gun ownership comes with significant responsibilities, including the potential for lethal force.
• First aid training is crucial for all gun owners, as they may need to render aid before using their firearm.
• Women are the fastest-growing demographic in firearms ownership and training.
• There are now more options for women to carry firearms comfortably and discreetly.
• Situational awareness is key to reducing risks and avoiding potential threats.
• Investing in quality firearm products is important for safety and effectiveness.

Keywords used during this episode: SHOT Show 2025, Otis Technology, firearms, Shooters Choice, US Military, Babes with Bullets, three gun match, law enforcement, everyday carry (EDC), USPSA/Ipsic, de-escalation, situational awareness, suicide prevention, first aid, non-lethal

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast. We are women who hide the fish, shoot, archery.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

All the things. All the things. We're at SHAT Show 2025 right now from the Otis Technology booth, our beautiful, stunning, amazing podcast booth.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

It's it's just, I mean, I wish everybody will check out our um our social media and you will see this is top-notch. It is, I mean, the design is wonderful. We get to see everybody that's walking by. Everybody gets to see us. And everybody gets to be.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

But if they walk by not I got I gotta pinch myself. I can't believe I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Oh my gosh. That's how we feel, really. And we are here with Bill Cleftis, and he's with Otis Technology. And I'm so excited to be here. I'm excited to be uh here with the Bill and have you on our podcast today. Thank you so much for you. Welcome.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Absolutely. And I know that I mean uh Otis is always coming up with new products, uh evolving. Um what's what's happening here at the SHOT Show?

SPEAKER_02 1:23

Well, I'll tell you, it's it's uh, you know, Otis has been in business for uh 40 years, this is uh 40 year uh yeah, 40-year anniversary, and uh, you know, been supporting the US military for almost 30 years. Um it's it's uh it it really has been a wonderful um opportunity to be, you know, able to lead the organization uh in the last three three and a half three years or so that I've been on board. Uh it was really an easy choice to join Otis because of its reputation. But I think what uh what what we've looked at is more of a more strategic look into the future and and how do we serve our customers better going forward. Uh one of the things that uh you know, a number of years ago, we actually picked up the shooter's choice brand. And I think that what we've been over the last uh two or three years now, what we've done is really developed a two-tier approach to uh bringing in the market. Uh certainly Otis will always be the number one product that that that that's built, combat proven, and continue to be combat proven, designed and built in upstate New York. And then the shooter's choice brand is what I'd call our best value brand because you know there's a number of things that are coming from overseas that that don't compare to our Otis product at all. But at the same time, people especially first-time shooters not knowing what I should be buying, uh, we want to give them a choice. And the shooter's choice product is the is really the choice for any of the new shooters that are maybe uncertain looking at whether they're buying it from their local dealer or buying it through Amazon, uh, they can see that that we do have alternate products that not necessarily have to rely on you know the stuff that's coming from the Far East.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Oh. So is that um shooter's product? What where is that uh located, like your warehouse or your oh no, it's it's uh so there's a number of things.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Uh we we augment some of uh some of the uh uh products in the shooter's choice product line. We augment both with uh um uh globally sourced materials along with some of the things that we do and combine them into a product called Shooter's Choice. So the the Shooter's Choice line was originally uh uh their focus was uh uh chemicals and so forth. So a lot of the chemicals we continue to support uh uh in the Shooter's Choice line as well as expand uh beyond uh the original product offering. But we've also augmented the the chemicals with other types of cleaning uh uh items and brushes and kits and uh you know some of the things that that our customers are demanding out there.

SPEAKER_01 4:05

And you guys have an awesome kit. We um the first Babes with Bullets three-gun match, it was the first time I've I had ever shot like a female-oriented match. It was actually the first time I ever shot a three-gun match, like a on a big, big scale, not a local match. It was amazing. Uh Heather was out there and she was so gracious, and I actually won the um a huge kit.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yep, the range box, probably.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

It was so cool. And this was like nine years ago.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

And um, and I remember trying to pack it in my suitcase.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

We could have shipped it for you.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

You didn't have to take it. It was fine. And we actually, my husband and I, we we shoot and we still use some of those things. And it came with a little a little range kit, and I mean, I take that everywhere. It's in my range bag. Sure, sure. Um, and then when I was um I was in law enforcement, and I would not go to the range without Otis. And everybody was like, What do you got? What do you got? I'm like, I'm not using that stuff, you know, the department issue. I'm like, here's a here's a ripcord, here's a and it was it cleaned so well.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And it does make a difference. It does. And when you have a firearm that is you probably spend a lot of money on, cleaning it is a very key thing to make sure that it continues to fire well. And I think a lot of people take that for granted. And so why would you spend a lot of money on a firearm and then use less expensive, like just par core, like par substantial materials?

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Well, think about this, right? Your your everyday carry is you're you expect it to be reliable when if you would have to use it. So absolutely. So I I'm I'm even even when I don't fire my firearm on a at least on a monthly basis to make sure that it's clean, it's operable, and so forth. Because even just sitting in a a pocket, if you're if you're using a pocket holster or what have you, uh you want to make sure that there's no debris or anything that impedes the function of the firearm.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yes, because you want it to go bang and not click.

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Absolutely.

unknown 6:13

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

No, I'm it's funny because uh, you know, I've been I've been competing pistol shooting, uh, USPSA, Ipsyc, uh uh there's a number of different events, and three gunning for a number of years. And I I I can remember the first time that I three gunned, it was it was it was a hoot. I mean, you're your your blood is pumping, and you just, you know, and and it's funny because you know, there's so much attention on safety that any time that you you dump the gun, it needs to be in a safe condition, right? So it's always safety, safety, safety. Always, you know, at the end of each gun, you're you just want to make sure they don't get dequeued between you know between stages or during an event, especially if you're traveling somewhere that takes 12 hours to get there. The last thing you want to do is DQ on the first stage. So absolutely. Yeah, no, you know, and it's great because uh we all started at the same place, right? We all started at the first trigger poll. So I I also do our concealed carry permits in uh a number of counties uh in the area that that that we live in. And I tell people the same thing that you know it really comes down if if you want this lifestyle, you have to be proficient. And it's more than just marksmanship, it's really more of an attitude uh as well, because it's not a magic wand, it doesn't, you know, pulling it out doesn't stop the threat. And and and you know, regardless of the amount of training that you go through, you need to be able to be adaptable, recognize uh a potential threat, and you need to be able to adapt and adjust to the situation. Uh, and that's a personal decision that every every gun owner needs to make on you know whether they are disciplined enough and prepared for that potential threat. And training for it is absolutely critical to be able to make sure that that if that situation arises, you've got to be at least comfortable enough and proficient enough to do so.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

And then when you pull it, you need to pull the trigger. And we have a lot of conversations with ladies that you know just buying a firearm isn't enough. You have to go training and not not necessarily just training at the range, because to your point, you don't know what could happen in training at the range in a controlled environment. Your emotions are calm, you know you're in a safe space, is very different than being put out of your comfort zone in a dangerous situation and having to have that muscle memory work the same way.

SPEAKER_02 8:41

One of the three there are three things that unfortunately New York State is still not a very uh friendly state to uh to gun owners. But uh in September of 22 they forced a uh new requirement where there's uh uh require 16 hours of classroom uh instruction and two hours of live fire. But one of the things, three things that they added to the requirements that I think are versatile and as well as regardless if you're a gun owner or not, is uh de-escalation techniques, situational awareness, and suicide prevention. Oh wow. And I go through a lot of details to explain the people, especially about situational awareness.

SPEAKER_00 9:19

I was just gonna say that everyone needs that.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

You can't bury your head in a cell phone, you need to be aware of your surroundings, head on a swivel, and making sure that you are doing everything you can to resist to to reduce the potential for a threat. So, for example, why are you out at two o'clock in the morning? Why are you drunk out at two o'clock in the morning? Why are you in a city environment? Why are you by yourself? Why all these things compound and the the the the situ what you should be looking at is how do I reduce my risk, not necessarily how do I respond in the in the event of a threat. So it's absolutely critical that that people pay attention to some of these things and and reduce that potential for something to occur.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

Absolutely, absolutely. I always have conversations like with the with even my family. If you're gonna get a firearm, make sure that you could use it. Uh have that, you know, like really think about that. If if it comes push to shove, are you gonna be able to pull that trigger? Right. And um, if not, go get something else.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yeah, I I even worry about our law enforcement uh uh uh folks out there that you know over the last few years there's been so much negativity that that's been out there on the airwaves that even if they hesitate for a fraction of a second, it could mean the difference between whether they go home or not. Absolutely. The same thing is true with us as for those of us that conceal carry, you know, when you when when you're when you're confronted with a threat, now you have to make a decision. Does this escalate to the point where I have to stop the threat with a firearm? Because now when you have an EDC, you have the potential to take someone's life. So every conflict now is a potential armed conflict. So you've got to be able to think that through. And regardless of the amount of training that you have, that real life dynamic situation, as you described, can can uh you're you're gonna have to rely on intuition and whatever training and response you've gone through to try to reduce the threat.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

And the aftermath that yes, you might take a life, but even if you are in the right, air quotes, does not mean that you're not gonna go through litigation, investigation, all of those other things. Absolutely. There's a lot of and obviously concealed carry, we support it, you know, your right to defend yourself, but you need to be educated, just like any other topic or any other element in life, know every aspect of it before you get into it.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Absolutely. And it's and it's not just the litigation, but uh, you know, how is is your mind gonna be able to absorb it that you just took a life?

SPEAKER_02 12:03

It's it's funny you say that because in class I tell people you may you may beat the criminal case against you, and then you may beat the civil case against you, but then you have the moral case, and you're gonna, in the back of your mind, you're gonna say to yourself, did I really need to kill that person to stop the threat, right? It's a 17-year-old kid that has been misguided and and you you felt threatened, you killed someone, and you have to deal with that for the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

So that unfortunately or fortunately, you know, that delay could mean the difference of whether you go home or not. And that's that's why I think there needs to be more attention placed on how do I reduce the risk instead of instead of having to be trained for the event. The other thing that I also uh emphasize is first aid. Chances are that you're gonna render first aid to people before you need to actually take a life. So I'm a huge advocate of of getting people to get first aid training, whether it's stop the bleed, uh regular first aid type uh uh training, especially in our our area, uh trauma center is so far away. You're gonna if you if if you've got a uh traumatic event, you're gonna be taken out with a helicopter. So being able to, you know, apply a tourniquet, be able to stop the bleed is is absolutely critical to saving a life.

SPEAKER_00 13:22

I feel like that's one of those things that in today's world, maybe a few decades ago, people knew more, but it's like changing a tire. People don't know those necessary everyday things that you probably should know that would make a bad situation much better. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Yeah, no, it's a good point. Yeah, and even though that person might have tried to kill you, uh rendering first aid if they need it is important.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Absolutely. You know, it's it's yeah, absolutely. And it's tough, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:50

It's all it's all of the moral thing.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

It's the right thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Um, there's a lot of non-lethal uh means nowadays too, which make a lot of sense. Um, you know, I'm a huge fan of Berna. Berna does a great job with a lot of their non-lethal uh firearms. Um and but but again, when when the situation arises, you know, do I do I use my non-lethal or do I use my lethal, right? And if you carry both.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Right. And they and Berna, along with a lot of other companies like Fox, Mace, Saber, Pepper Spray, whether you have a coupaton, a knife, can't be at the bottom of your purse. Right. It has to be able to get too quickly. And before I had my own company, I worked for Mace, and I would have people talk to me all the time and ask me, well, you know, how how should I carry this? Like how I can't tell you how you're gonna be attacked, or let alone if if you're going to be. You know, we can't perceive those things. So it is about your proficiency in whatever tool you want to use and what you feel most comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02 14:47

It's funny because um I've I've had, I'd say that a lot of my classes nowadays, especially when I was doing it online during COVID, more than 60% of the of my students were females because it was a lot easier for them to be able to participate in a four-hour class online than it is to have to go and show up. And I can remember when my wife, before I was, before I was actually doing instructing, uh, she was the lone the lone female in a class of about 20 guys, and she hated it, you know, and she was saying, yeah, all the guys wouldn't be yucking it up, and you know, she was by herself, and which is terrible. But I think that, you know, one of the things that I uh that I really do believe, and especially when you think about it, women is the are the fastest growing subset when it comes to firearm owners, and it's it's critical. The thing is, I'm not a huge purse advocate because unless you have your purse with you all the time, that gun is not going to do you any good. So you have a lot of women that will leave their purse in the car, they go inside the store with a change purse. The gun's not in your purse.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Wait, wait, hold on. I have to get my gun out of my purse, you know. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, or you know, you go to your friend's house and and the purse is in, you know, hanging on one of the chairs or it's in the bedroom with all the other purses, and you know, the 14-year-old kid that lives in the house is rifling through purses and looking for money, but he found a gun. So uh I'm a huge advocate of Dean Adams, Dean Adams' website. You know, they they have all kinds of different the options today for women are so much more than they were 25 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Which is nice because as women, we come in all shapes, curves, sizes, and having a different structure, apparatus, whatever, to carry it on your body where you feel that you can get to it quickly and most comfortably is very important.

SPEAKER_02 16:41

Well, and you have different events, you have different events, right? Yeah. The clothes you wear in the wintertime will be different than what you wear in the in the summertime. Or if you're at a formal event, what do you do there versus an informal type of situation? So the options today for both men and women are so much back 35 years ago, uh, it was outside the way that was it. So uh you know, some of the options today with you know the different types of corsets, the belly bands, the uh uh sticky holster. Sticky holster, you know, is a great I I actually I love the sticky holster in the summertime because I could throw a uh revolver in the sticky holster, put it in my cargo pants, and I'm gonna begin again. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Bill, it's been so great having you on our podcast. Thank you. Um, I mean, it's so informative. I love it. We we would love to have you back. Yes, anytime.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

I'm uh I love this type of stuff. You can see that I I love talking about this. I'm pretty passionate about it, and uh would love to try to help as you know as many people as possible in making the right choices.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

So, Bill, how does how do people get a hold of Otis or for you for uh training?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

So in in the upstate uh New York area, um, I could certainly uh my my uh email as firearms trainer uh at verizon.net uh for Otis, uh Otis products and so forth. We're at OtisTech.com. And uh I I totally you know would want everyone to you know take a look at some of the products that we have. Uh be careful to not get sucked into you know buying some of the cheaper products that you can buy on Amazon. You you get what you pay for.

SPEAKER_00 18:21

Uh we were just talking about that. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

You know, Otis products we make in Lions Falls, New York. Uh we are vertically integrated, so I mean we we take raw materials and uh fabricate them so that they are meet the standards that that we build to both uh to the DOD and and uh what we've been doing that has been combat proven, and uh we share that with uh the whole commercial world as well. So thank you for having me, folks. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Have a great show.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Thank you, you too.