How do I share my faith with others? (Ep. 16)

Christians know the importance of telling others about Jesus and what he has done. However, we often struggle with the question of how. Join Pastors Chris and Tony Pflughoeft as they explore this important topic.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Hello and welcome to Double Portion. This is a video devotional resource put together by twin Lutheran pastors. We both serve in Southern California. My name is Chris Flughaft. I'm the pastor at Grace Lutheran Church in Yorbalinda, joined by my twin brother, Pastor Tony Flughaft, who serves at Christ the Vine Lutheran Church in Temecula, California. So today, Tony, what I was thinking we could do is uh talk about how we share our faith with friends, relative, associates, neighbors, that typical FRAN uh acronym. Uh I thought we could kick it off by going through a top 10 list of things to do that I put together. But before we do that, perhaps you wanted to establish the case as to why this is the individual Christian's responsibility and not just the responsibility of the church.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, as individual Christians, we are called to be salt and light in this world. Um, God calls us to make a difference. And how do we do this in the greatest possible way? We we tell others about the love of Jesus, and as we proclaim the good news, as we proclaim the gospel, God is powerfully working. He uses individual Christians to do this in our relationships with others. And so certainly this is the task of the church, but um beyond that, it's the task of the individuals within the church to go and tell others about Jesus. And and so we think of the Great Commission, um, go and make disciples of all nations. And some people will limit that to the specific disciples, but I think there's certainly flexibility to be able to go beyond that, to say, as individual Christians, we have this responsibility to tell others about the love of Jesus. And so we need to take this seriously. How are we gonna do that? We need to consider that. Um, I've got people in my life that don't believe in Jesus, and I want to love them. And how do I love someone in the greatest possible way? Well, I tell them about their savior and what what he's done. So as we're going through our life interacting with different people, we want to think about how can I use this relationship to tell others about their savior and what that means, the savior of the world, our savior. I I like to liken it to um kind of like a pizza commercial versus your friend telling you. And I think we've done that illustration in this podcast before, but the the friend telling you is so much more uh impactful than the commercial you saw on TV. And so we want, as Christians, to tell others about the love of Jesus, to be that salt and light as we've been called to be, to love people through the gospel. And so let's let's talk about those tips. I want to hear the tips that you gave and see if there's any maybe that I might add or or what else.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Yeah. So this is the top 10 that I gave in a Bible study on evangelism. We use the basis of this Bible study, the uh book by Pastor President Fileski, We Believe, Therefore We Speak. So the first three lessons we took, but the first half of that book, which it goes through the creed as the reason to confess our faith. And then we took all of the personal um practical examples in this one lesson within that Bible study. But here is uh my top 10. I gave it to my congregation. I said, these are just personal encouragements, uh, things that I think uh work well. Not all of these are thus saith the Lord, and there's room for discussion. Uh, and I didn't go uh top to bottom from most important to least important necessarily. So things could be shuffled around. Want to put this before you are there things you would remove, are there things that you would uh add, and then we can kind of talk about that list in general. So number one, I have study God's word. Number two, pray to God. Three, consider your appearance. Four, smile, five, ask questions, six, listen, seven, learn names, eight, cut to the chase, nine, invite, and ten, uh, let the gospel predominate. So before we go into any suggestions, are there any that you think require further clarification as to what I was thinking when I presented it? Obviously, I talked to my congregation and told my thoughts behind the points.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, I would maybe want some clarification to consider your appearance, um, because someone might hear that. And in our in our world of sensitivity about people's appearances, might not initially love that thought. So, what what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yeah, and this one was actually directly taken from President Velesky's book as he talked about making the evangelism call in a formal program from a church. And he was speaking to it a little bit of a different time. So he is talking about wearing formal professional clothing. I don't think this that's necessarily what it would mean in our culture, but uh presenting ourselves in a way that is, I guess what's the opposite of unkempt? Kempt uh and put together just so that uh uh our own uncleanliness wouldn't get in the way of presenting the the gospel to other people. Not that it's an apples to apples uh comparison and how you're going to potentially get a girlfriend when you are a younger man, but to think like, hey, I want to remove some of these obstacles. And if my my hair is unkempt, if my clothes is very dirty, that could be a distraction from being able to connect with the person. So I'm not saying go too far and that you're going to wow the person with your good looks, or uh people who are unattractive can't uh share the gospel with others. But as much as it's in our control, kind of remove some of the stumbling blocks, such as very dirty clothing, or even clothing that might not fit well with the testimony you want to share with them, whether that be having graphics of things that aren't well connected with your face or faith or whatever it might be.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Yeah. Yeah, no, I I think that makes sense. It reminds me um of advice that we would receive at seminary. And I was just listening to a podcast where they gave very similar advice. And I was telling pastors, don't be weird. And I think in the seminary and this podcast, they were kind of getting down to that same point of like follow social norms, shower, brush your teeth, take care of yourself. And so to consider your appearance. And not saying that every uh pastor and member of a church needs to be um Joe Six Pack, um, but these things can actually be impactful upon our our witness. And so it just reminds me of this video that I saw, and it was like every Christian needs to be able to do this, and then this guy just does like 12 backflips in a row, and it's just kind of being silly. Now, obviously, not every Christian needs to be in amazing shape like that or something like that. That could actually be problematic in some ways as it leads towards vanity. But like you said, there's certain things about our appearance and the way that we take care of ourselves that might be viewed as strange, weird, that that might be off-putting towards someone. No, certainly things like this are contextual, they're cultural, it changes. Uh, I remember um going canvassing for a church and being told uh I couldn't wear shorts for that, um, even though it was very hot outside, because um there was really that mindset that person a person working for the the church shouldn't wear shorts. Men don't wear shorts is really the mindset. Um that is not the mindset in Southern California. Um people are very relaxed and people are pretty open about like your dress in Southern California, and so there's more flexibility, but there are still things like not wearing um dirty clothes uh or not uh not smelling like some of those things, like hey, yeah, considering your your appearance is good, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

And as much as it's as much as it's in your control, too, right? And so if you are in a situation where you just don't have the resources, yeah, then it that's that's not in your control. But as much as it's in your control to uh to take care of some of those things, to to say, hey, maybe this this shirt has too many stains in it, and this isn't gonna be the one I'm gonna wear when I go and try to connect with people with Jesus anymore.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

And this is maybe gonna acknowledge something that I think the Mormons, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, something that they do well. Obviously, we have issues with with their theology, but one of the things that they do well is that they present a very attractive faith. Um, the the people have they are well put together, at least they appear to be, they have good families, they look like they live a desirable life. And I think that there is a part of the human aspect of the witness that it like, hey, if if people look well put together, that is desirable for others, and they say, hey, I want that. I want to be like them. And and so it is very helpful for them in their outreach that um often they are well put together and they're successful individuals, they're hard workers, and they're they're very kind, and um they do a good job of making it look desirable to others, and I think that's something as Christians we could do a better job of.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

Yeah, not that not that the motivation's proper there, right? They're not doing everything to glorify Jesus. We don't need to get into all the false teachings, but it's more so like Jesus is the debt collector who they now owe the debt to, and they've got to pay it back, and they use their lives to pay it back. So certainly the motivation's not there, but uh maybe you go driving in Southern California. I used to live in the Phoenix area, go driving around, and you're gonna see uh in many of the areas, the best kept property is that local LDS stake center. So that recognition of hey, uh, we want to have this outward positive appearance. And as Christians, we can have that proper understanding that everything we do, we do to glorify God. So that means taking care of our property, taking care of our bodies and our lives, uh, brushing our teeth, combing our hair, and doing all those things to glorify our God.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Yeah, it's glorifying God and it's a stewardship matter as well. God has given us this life to take care of. And we don't want to fall into the error of like a I mean, every this word's used overused, Gnosticism, um, that that really downplays the body. This body will be raised, and and um we therefore are to show respect to this body we've been given, knowing that Christ will raise it. Not that it's gonna be in better condition in heaven if we take care of it here, but but thinking of that kind of respect that this body will be raised. So I'm gonna take care of this body that our God has given to me for eternity. Um, but then also to think how Jesus elevated the flesh, he elevated humanity by taking on flesh. And and so just as our Savior um walked in the flesh, we have that privilege to walk in the flesh uh along with him, and so we're gonna take care of these bodies. And I think considering that appearance is in a way doing that. Uh, we're taking care of these bodies that God has given us, it's a stewardship matter.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, this upcoming Sunday, uh, I'm preaching on the the raising of the uh Shunammite boy. And so uh one of my big thoughts is that our God, the triune God, he is the Lord of life, both physical, temporal life, and eternal life. And so God's the one who gave that Shunammite woman who couldn't have children for some reason, the child, and God's the one who gave him back, and God's also the one who gave uh that eternal life confidence. So that was just a foretaste of what he would do, much like raising Lazarus from the dead in the resurrection. Um, but uh you can see uh the thing that we can say is we are not totally autonomous beings. Our bodies are not our own. They were created by God, they're also redeemed by God, and uh the Holy Spirit dwells within them. So we can use our our bodies to glorify God and to testify uh to his lordship in our lives, which has so much to do with our personal witness to other people. Uh I guess another oh sorry. Yeah, did you have another one that you wanted to grab from that list of tens? Say maybe this needs some further clarification.

SPEAKER_00 13:51

Yeah, maybe the the smile might be a good one. Some people have more made more of a stoic face, um, or or maybe they're saying, I'm not in a good mood, I don't want to, I don't want to lie.

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Yeah, so we don't we don't need to fall into what some might call toxic positivity, uh, but uh there is a joy in the Lord. Yeah, happiness is happenstance, but there is an overarching joy that comes from our God, and we we want that to shine through in our interactions with other people. It's kind of like when you get into the realm of preaching, they talk about the importance of affect. Uh, is this person truly transformed by the gospel? Does the preacher believe the things that he's telling you? Can you see that Jesus is first his savior and now he's sharing Jesus with you? Uh so humanly speaking, that seems to be an important thing. So uh to have that jovial attitude as you interact with people and just you're you're happy to be there with them. You're happy to share Jesus with them. You know something that has changed your life for now on eternity, and you just want to tell them about that. Obviously, keep it to appropriate to the context. You don't need to be smiling with a big old grin as they're crying about some horrible thing in their life. Uh, but uh that's kind of what I was saying is I use smile as a small word to talk about this overall idea of affect and the joy of the gospel just radiating through our lives.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, and and so I I think even just like on a personal level, not even specifically about sharing the gospel, but when someone's a downer all the time, it can be hard to be a be around them. And obviously we we balance that because we want to bear each other's burdens and um we want to be there for people who are hurting. Uh, we don't want to just be around people who are who make us happy or something. But I I think it is worth considering um am I the type of person that people like to be around? And I I think uh smiling is just a small thing that makes people comfortable with you, makes you the type of person that they want to be around. But then you're you're talking about like just like being a Christian, I'm going to be joyful, and this should show itself. So not saying fake it, but but also reminding yourself of the joy we have as Christians.

SPEAKER_01 16:29

Yeah. It makes me think of the psalm that says, I rejoiced with those who said to me, Let us go to the house of the Lord. So those who said to David, let us go to the house of the Lord, must have been rejoicing as they had this wonderful opportunity because he's rejoicing with them when he said it. So that just makes me think of how it is such a wonderful opportunity to come into the presence of our God. Uh for them, it was in the temple. For us, it's through the through the sacraments as Jesus comes to us and let us rejoice with those as we share this message.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah. So um another one I wanted to ask about like the asking questions. Someone might say to you, say, like, oh, I I just don't know what to say. Yeah, I don't and and I guess what would you say to that person that says like, um, I I get a couple of questions in and I just don't know what to say. Or or even they might say no one likes small talk and and I don't know how to get to that. I don't know how to push through that small talk, and then um with the deep talk, it's like oh, I don't know them yet. So I guess what what thoughts did you share with someone like that?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Yeah, there is a book I read, I can't remember the author. It was called Questioning Evangelism. Not that he was questioning the idea of evangelism, but he was saying using asking questions as a form of connecting with others. So sometimes people are afraid of outreach, especially in their personal relationships, because they view it as that means I'm just the person coming in to tell them things and give all the answers. And saying, actually, no, asking questions can be a pretty big part of that. First of all, when it comes to just the human relationship aspect of it, uh if you get the other person talking more about themselves, uh, they're gonna feel a little bit happier about that conversation, right? So if they walk away from that conversation, they think, you know what, that person just talked about themselves the whole time. Uh, they might have a sour feeling about it. But if they're talking walk away, oh like that person really cared about me, they're gonna actually have a little bit better feeling about that conversation. So uh tied to it, you can have a little bit of curiosity, look around, uh, ask some questions. I when I make a home visit as a pastor, I usually try to look at their decorations. And if I can see a consistent theme and a conversation I can then have based on it, uh, that's something I will strive to do. Because, right, no one wants small talk. How's the weather today? Uh okay, it's it's warm, it's beautiful, it always is. It's Southern California.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

It's a little bit like it's way too hot, it's not beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

But uh so to avoid the small talk about just meaningless things, if you can kind of be perceptive and ask questions based off of it. Hey, I see that artwork, and it looks like it's this place, or can you tell me more about it? Have you gone there? Do you like going there? Uh or you see that there's a a lot of apparel for a team that they must like, uh, and then you can create a conversation about that. So there can be the being perceptive and asking questions that shows your interest in them, but also uh as you respond to the things that they say, you don't always have to have a direct response right away. Someone sometimes it's very impactful to just say, I hear you say this. What does that mean? Right? Because yeah, then you can get further clarification as to what exactly they're getting at. Yeah. All right. After uh a quick uh break, we are returning. So we were in asking questions, and I I set it forward a lot of the things I was thinking there. Did you have a response or any ideas towards asking questions?

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Yeah, I I think ultimately asking questions is gonna be like a foundation of building any relationship. And so even if you're not looking for an evangelistic witness, this is just making human connections. And I know sometimes it can be kind of a daunting task to think about um um doing this with someone that you don't know for the first time. Uh, but I kind of made this case recently. I was presenting at a teacher's conference, and you're talking about using the school for the purpose of outreach and making connections with the families. And I said, I know not everyone thinks that this is their skill. Um but you've all done this before. You have friends, many of you are married, you have made connections with people for the first time. And and so questions is a natural part of that. And and so then you had talked about um not maybe just the how's the weather or something like that. Um, but maybe having uh, like you said, noticing things that they um they seem to be interested in. I I think also just as like an observer of the human condition, you can know the types of things that people like to talk about or the uh um typical interests. So um I've found great success talking to other men about sports. I mean, generally speaking, a lot of men like to watch, especially the NFL. And so you just you find that common connection, that common ground, and then it's really not even that hard. And so I think there is a a case to even advocate for um being interested in things that your society is interested in, generally speaking. So obviously, I'm not saying watch the Netflix show that you think is sinful because other people are watching it, but at least keeping your tabs on some of these things. So I remember um talking about this at the seminary about do do you legitimately have to give up your fandom um as you move to a new new community? And that was like the idea. I I think that's actually um I wouldn't advise that. I think it's a little disingenuous to pretend you're something that you're not. Uh, but this was the piece of advice. Um, don't stop being a Packer fan, but keep tabs on the local teams. Like um, no, you're gonna know what's going on for me. You're gonna know what's going on with the Rams and the Chargers, you're gonna know what's going on with the Padres. You you're gonna know what's going on with the Lakers. If you're a sports fan, um know what people around like, and then you can make those connections by talking about those things. And even if you're not a sports fan, I think it it might be valuable to at least know a little bit about these things, or what are the different um interests that our society has. Uh, maybe it is some TV shows, uh, maybe it's it's food. Uh, people like to talk about restaurants, and so you don't even necessarily need to have the immediate context of seeing, hey, they've got other things that I see that shows that they like these things, but people seem to like to talk about restaurants. So um, you could find a way to talk them, hey, um, I'm relatively new to this area. You got any good restaurants you could suggest? And you could start to make those connections and talk about their interests, what they like uh when it comes to food. Um, and then you could talk about like, hey, here is what I like. Um, and and so I I think there's just being a observer of the human condition, knowing the types of things that people like, and then asking questions about the types of things that people like.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

Yeah, and I think it doesn't even need to be things you know all that much about, as long as you're willing to learn, right? So maybe you're not a hunter or a fisher, but this person that you want to connect with is that means that they have a lot of knowledge that you don't have, and you can just look to say, impart that knowledge to me. Where do you go fishing around here? What types of fish do you catch? Yeah, what what what style of fishing do you do? Do you do you stand on the the river bank? Do you fly fish? Do you go on a boat into the lake? Yeah, uh, there's so many questions, like even if you don't know much about that thing, you can just say, hey, this person knows about it, or you can do it with their work as well, right? People uh people find a lot of uh personal pride and identity in the things that they do at work, and that means they they know a lot of things that you don't know. So when they tell you this is what I do for a living, don't drop it there, ask questions.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yeah, like have a posture of curiosity. Yeah, so um I don't know if you use this exact question, but something kind of like for work, what what difference is it that that you make in your position? Um, especially when someone's working in an office and you don't really know what they're doing. So, like, what is it that that um you're doing differently that really helps with the process and and kind of give them that invitation to get into it a little bit more, uh especially if they're working 40, 50, 60 hours a week, this is something they're interested in to an extent. Like they have to be. It's it's such a major part of their life. So give them that invitation to talk more about it because they might not feel like people want to hear about work. But if you kind of ask, like, um, what is it about your job that that you enjoy the most? Or what is it um, how would things go if if you weren't there, or something like that, to try to explore that a little bit more. So I I think you're exactly right. Um, you don't need to know a lot about it. As long as you have that posture of curiosity, you can ask these questions and say, well, tell me more about that. I I think another huge aspect of asking questions is going to be about their family. Um, most most people have family. Um, not necessarily that they have children, even, but they've got um it it is rare that someone has no family left. Um, they've got people in their in their family, and so asking them about their kids, what their kids are doing, asking them about their how their their folks are doing, asking them about their brother or sister, showing an interest in them as an individual. Um, you're gonna be able to make those connections and then doing a good job of then remembering these people's names later. And that's a point that you talked about, but not only remembering their name, remembering the their family members' names and remembering some unique things about their family members, I think are important to show that you care about this person on a deeper level.

SPEAKER_01 27:29

Yeah. And that's typically what I try to do when I have every member visits. So being the newer pastor at a congregation, that was one of the first goals that I did was I was gonna visit as many people as would let me into their front door. And uh, when I was sitting down with in the conversation with people, uh if they were a married couple, I would say, so tell me how'd you two meet, right? They they have a story uh that they're usually gonna be happy to share that story. Uh so yeah, just be curious, ask questions about their lives. Uh, and that can so take away the fear of I don't know what to say. And it's helping build that that relationship that you have that's going to uh create an opportunity. And I think that's helpful with all of these to get into that opportunity to witness uh it's kind of a trite saying, but uh no one's gonna care about how much you know until they know how much you care. So then show that you care, be part of their life, be there.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Yeah. I I think another good question. Um, like I I like the how did the two of you meet? The other one that I like is I mean, kind of a probing question first. Like, is this where you grew up? And then often it's not.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

So then it's like, well, what what brought you here? Um, what do you like about this area compared to where you used to live? Uh, and then there's all sorts of conversations that can come from it. Maybe they've moved out here because they they met their spouse and this is where their spouse is from. Maybe it's this is where work took them. There can be interesting stories. I remember one of the members at my church had moved from Green Bay out here a long time ago, and we had a long conversation about that as I was doing one of those every member visits. These things are good to talk about. It makes for an opportunity to get to know the person better to to create that conversation. Now, I will say there have been times where I was talking to people and they just completely stonewalled me and they just uh said they just gave like one word answers and then like almost I mean, even in one situation where the person's like, oh, what is this, 20 questions? Um, and and so like yes, you are dealing with like the if people are willing to socialize and and so sometimes it's not gonna work. Um that's just the reality of this, but uh it it's worth trying.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, and that's what I might almost put it in one of the top uh top 10 of do's for personal witnessing is uh uh maybe be ready for rejection. Yeah. It doesn't always work out perfectly. Not everyone wants to have a conversation with you. Sometimes when you uh you embrace your curiosity and questions, uh you could you could unintentionally scare people off. Uh I I remember here's here's an example. We did this muddy dash with another pastor in the area, so we were uh covered in mud, and we want to stop and get lunch quick afterwards. And uh I've been trying to embrace uh just like curiosity trying to talk to strangers. Um we did change, but I was still pretty pretty muddy, and there's probably mud in my beard and stuff, but I looked unkempt. And I was walking to the bathroom at Costco and I saw this this woman who she had four daughters and appeared to be pregnant. I wasn't gonna ask her if she was pregnant, but my wife and I have four daughters and she's pregnant, so I thought, oh, I'll I'll go introduce myself and just say, hey, it looks like you guys have four daughters, that's so cool. And my wife and I have four daughters, and she's pregnant with her fifth. And then she looked like I was an insane person coming up approaching her, like uh maybe she was in danger. And then maybe this ties back to the consider appearance one. And I looked at myself in the mirror in the bathroom, and I said, Oh, you know what? She probably thought that I was a crazy person approaching her. She probably didn't even think I had a wife or kids, and I was making that up, and she was in danger. So be ready for rejection. It's not gonna work out right, and uh, sometimes you'll make mistakes and put your foot in your mouth.

SPEAKER_00 32:11

Although I do think we have a very unhealthy culture in our country right now where people have embraced being antisocial. Like people have like antisocial social club bumper stickers and t-shirts and and like um like the sarcastic t-shirts like that. Basically, I don't know, I'm trying to think of an example, but it's like a sarcastic t t-shirt, and it's like I hate people. It's like um it like it is it is actually sad uh how unwilling to talk to others many people are, and I understand that there's some fear of strangers and all of that, but I I think it's just like a general unfriendliness that our culture is plagued with right now, and and and so you there is gonna be some pushing through that that you're gonna have to deal with. And you said like be ready for rejection, and and so sometimes it will just be because people themselves are not used to socializing with strangers in public. Um, they might not be used to socializing with people in general. Um, they spend so much time on their phone, they don't actually talk to people in public, they watch a lot of TV, um, they don't spend time outside of their house at all. They work at home, they uh their entertainment's at home. Um that so those are some very real difficulties that you're gonna have to face rejection. But then beyond that, there's also just the fact that like the gospel's offensive. And so you're gonna face rejection because Jesus told us we'd face rejection. He was hated, and therefore we're gonna be hated. And so you even think like uh Philip goes and he finds Nathaniel and he tells him, um, we've met the Messiah and and this guy from Nazareth. And Nathaniel's like, Nazareth, what could come what good could come from Nazareth? Like the the truths of who Jesus is are cause skepticism in others, and and then also the very truth of salvation through Christ alone by faith alone, um or uh by grace alone through faith alone, that is offensive because we're saying salvation's only through Jesus, and this is gonna make people mad. And then we're saying you also have to follow what Jesus actually says, uh, and so that's gonna upset people, and and so the reality is we're gonna face rejection. So I do something similar. I have a good ten commandments of evangelism in my Bible information class, and I do have like rejection as one, like be ready to face rejection.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

Yeah, so when we have this list of 10 top 10 things to do when with per personal witnessing, any others that you say need further clarification, or do you want to jump into uh additions or potential swaps?

SPEAKER_00 35:04

I'm I'm blanking on what they were. So is there any that you would highlight that you would like to address?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Learn names. I I think that one's kind of a unique one and not as obvious, but uh we live in a culture where a lot of people don't know each other's names. Uh and it's like uh what's my neighbor's name across the street? I don't I don't know. Uh right, that's kind of the approach people can often have. Yeah, or I heard their name once and I I don't remember it. Uh many people say I'm not good with names. Uh I do encourage people that that's a it is a practiced and learned skill to know people's names. Uh some people are just naturally good with memory, but not everyone is. And there is a practicality of saying, How can I learn these names? Um when I uh first joined this conversation, uh congregation rather, I just took the picture directory and I uh flipped through it. When I was a vicar, I took the pickup picture directory of that congregation and I actually made flashcards so that I would memorize the names of the people based off of their face. So it is something that takes some practice. It's not natural for everyone to remember names. There's little things we can do, right? When you first meet them, if they say their name, repeat it and then try to say it a couple of times in that initial conversation. And when they leave, say bye, I don't know, Jennifer. It was nice to meet you. Uh, and that should help kind of solidify their name in your mind if you said it a few times. Uh, and then some people have encouraged like tying different things to remember their names in your mind. Obviously, be careful that it's unoffensive and you don't say it to them. Uh like uh I I think there's some TV shows where they do comical things over having an offensive uh memory hook for a person's name. So if you have a memory hook, uh a constructive one would be better than a destructive one.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Yeah, I've never really had to have memory hooks for these. I just kind of naturally know people's names. It's just how it's worked for me. Uh but I I think people that struggle with this, it's one of those things that I mean, too bad, but you just need to do this. Um you it it it offends people when uh they when you ask them, well, what's your name again? And and you've known them for a little bit and they've met you multiple times. And I'm really thinking in the context of a church, so this isn't necessarily outreach, but it's like, oh, are you new? I what's your name? And it's like I've been going here for five years. Or um, you've met me 10 times and you have to keep asking for my name, uh, because that's not how you treat your son's girlfriend, that's not how you treat your grandchild. Like it doesn't you don't need to keep asking what's what's that person's name again? So when the relationship is important, you make the effort to know the name.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

Now a little bit of pushback on that though, it would be more offensive to never learn their name than have to ask them, right? So if yeah, uh don't let oh no, they're gonna be upset that I'm asking what their name is again. Yeah. I've met them three times and I don't know their name. It would be worse to never know their name. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

There's a funny episode of The King of Queens where he's grocery shopping, or Kevin James's character is um uh Doug is grocery shopping for Thanksgiving with Arthur and Carrie, and then this guy runs into him, and apparently the guy knows him and they've this long history, and he can't think of the guy's name, and he just keeps running into him and he's trying to avoid saying his name. And and it's like there is a certain point, just hey, like to be honest, I sorry, I I can't remember your name right now. Um, that's better than than faking it and and essentially lying. Uh, but I I'm saying just make the effort when when it matters, you'll you'd make the effort, and and so it's good. Let's make the effort. How can I get to know this person's name?

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Yeah. So uh I think I don't think we need to go too far into the study God's word and pray. Those ones are obvious. That's what we're gonna do as Christians, those are gonna encourage us and prompt us uh to uh to approach these things. Martin Luther says there are th three things that make a theologian. Uh those are uh oratio, meditatio, and tenatio. So it's prayer, it's studying God's word. Those are two of the big ones. And then tentaio is kind of like a theology of the cross suffering. Uh but uh maybe we could tie that back to how we talked about embrace that you might face rejection. Yeah. Anything you would want to add to the list?

SPEAKER_00 40:14

One thing that I would add is maybe similar to the rejection, just kind of don't don't panic. Um we balance the call to do outreach with the truth of election. And those who are gonna be saved are gonna be saved. And God God brings them um to faith through means and he uses people. Uh Romans 10, consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ, and it talks about how how can they hear if someone isn't sent. Um so so yes, God uses means, but at the same time, um the those who are gonna be saved are gonna be saved. And and so this this does calm us in our our efforts. Um if I do this wrong, it doesn't mean that I'm then damning these people to hell. Um trust in God, trust in the opportunities, they're gonna present themselves to you. Don't panic. Um uh just just do what you've been called to do, but understand like, hey, if I didn't do it right, um, God has all sorts of other opportunities for them to hear the preaching of the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Yeah. So in this Bible study that I did with my congregation, uh, we also so we took the wisdom of the Proverbs that direct us into personal relationships. There's a lot of great wisdom to consider as you interact with other people in the book of Proverbs. Uh, but then I also did the don'ts of personal witnessing, similar to some of the things you had just said. Don't panic, don't worry, God's got control. Ultimately, the the power is in the Holy Spirit, it's not in my words alone. So that you can have that approach. Um I had another, I guess I had five of those, but uh one that I thought would be worth pulling out are two. Is although you're gonna let God the gospel predominate, don't minimize the law. So there could be the temptation to say, like, uh, I don't want to ever talk to this person about the sinful thing they're engaged in, uh, because I want to provide myself an opportunity to let the gospel predominate and to uh proclaim Jesus' love and forgiveness to them.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Yeah, you even hear like a an improper ordering of things suggested by people, and and I know a circumstance where someone was caught up in a sinful lifestyle, and it's like, well, what's gonna empower them to flee from this sin? The gospel. So therefore, don't confront this sin and preach the gospel to them, and then the gospel is gonna empower them. Like that that's just not how the Bible talks, it's not a proper ordering of law and gospel. Um that that is just not our Lutheran expression of how this works. This isn't how the Bible speaks. Uh, this is uh an error of a gospel reduction, uh reductionism type thought. And so, yeah, we need to be able to preach the fullness of the law. It is only when someone despairs of their sinfulness that they understand the need for the savior.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Yeah, so uh if there there's gonna be times where you need to have that conversation, uh, because uh you you need maybe not everything needs to change immediately in their life, but you do need to uh bring God's law to them, which is gonna convict them uh that I am a sinner. In need of salvation. Because if you go to someone and proclaim Jesus is the savior of sinners and their their posture is I'm not a sinner, I don't need a savior, then the gospel is going to fall on deaf ears. So we can't we can't minimize God's law on this either.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

I mean, or even if you you think about it just kind of how it's a little disingenuous, it's kind of dishonest if let's say hypothetically you're you're just gonna while you're witnessing to them ignore all this, then they do become a Christian, they do become a member of the church, and then it's like all right, now you have to give all that up. Like, um it that's may it might feel like that you're hiding something from them, like, well, where was all this when you're talking to me before? It seemed fine um earlier, and and so this is where people get into like some of the pronoun conversations of oh, well, you the some people advocate for using the pronoun to create that conversation, to continue the conversation, but eventually you're gonna have to be forthright with the person, and then they'll they might wonder, well, were you lying to me before? Um, why why weren't you up front with this the whole time? And so I think that can be the error too of when someone just ignores sin. Because I mean, our goal, and this maybe is another goal for evangelism, um, within our power, we can't do this on our own, of course. Um, but my goal is to connect people to the sacramental life of the congregation, even as an individual Christian, I would say that should be your goal. Not just that they hear about Jesus, but that you get them connected to a Bible-believing, um, confessionally Lutheran church. Like you want Wells, yes, can like a Wells church. Um that we want them to go to one of our congregations. You you don't you don't want it just that they believe in Jesus, and they're like, all right, that's good. You want them to experience the fullness, the richness of this faith. And so the goal is not just to end at so I told them about Jesus, I'm done. I want to get them into the church, get them connected, get them to receive the Lord's Supper, to to be in a communion of faith.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yeah. So we can recognize that there is room to say, when's the proper time to have this conversation? Um, there can be room to say, uh, I want you to continue to just after you bring up something to say, I want you to continue to listen to me and and hear what Jesus says. And I'm convinced as the Holy Spirit works in your heart's heart, he's gonna bring you to a conviction of this truth as well. But that's not an excuse to just ignore it and just say, like, hey, uh, we're never gonna talk to them about it, we're not gonna talk about this living situation, we're not gonna talk about this impenitent sin. Yeah, and as long as I hear a verbal confession of faith, we're all good because yeah, impenitent sin is still unbelief. And someone could start attending a church even and uh still be caught up in that sin if we never have that conversation.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

I mean, the Hebrews 10, if we deliberately keep on sinning, there's no sacrifice left for sin. Like we need to uphold the fullness of the law as well. And and I think this is where um the mustard seed of faith idea has been weaponized and and say, like, well, as long as they have that mustard seed of faith, they're good. And and like I that's not really Jesus' point. He's like, if you have this faith as size of mustard seed, you can say to these mountains, uh right? That's the section, say these mountains be uprooted or go to the seed. Um, and and so the point of the mustard seed of faith is not saying, okay, here's the bare minimum of faith that you need to be saved. It's saying the power is not in the faith, but in in the object of our faith. And and so sometimes people say, like, oh, well, they've got that mustard seed of faith. Yeah, I know that they're living in sin and all that, but they've got that mustard seed of faith. They they still believe in Jesus. But even the the demons know that there's one Lord and shudder. There's a difference between uh historical uh assent to past events and and faith. Faith is a matter of the head, heart, and the will. And so a good uh a good tree produces good fruits, faith will produce action, and it is unthinkable to to think that we can just continue to live on in sin as though it doesn't matter. Now we balance that with the symbol. We are at the same time a justified and sinner, and we aren't going to be perfect, but that also doesn't mean we can just like willingly give in to sin as though it doesn't matter, and and so I I I think that is a very healthy warning. I wanted to to get into another um maybe rule I might add, um, or tip I might add before I forget. Um one that I wanted to throw out there was um be confident. Um people like confident people, like not not arrogant, um, not obnoxious, but confident. Like I'm confident in my salvation through Christ alone. I'm confident in my identity as a child of God. Uh I'm not changing up everything I do because of what you might think or say. Like, I this is this is the way that God has called for me to live my life. This is the truth that he's delivered to me, and and I'm confident in that. I'm confident he's gonna work through the word. And so we don't need to apologize for what we believe. We don't need to apologize for our expression of the faith. We certainly do not need to apologize for being wells. I think a lot of people are apologetic about their uh denomination. Like I'm proud to be wells. I I think God has blessed us in our in our synod, um, allowing us to have in a very wellsy way of saying it, the gospel and truth and purity. Like this is a good thing. And and I even had a really cool experience. There was a person at my church who um their their son's looking to go to a college, and they uh he was gonna go on an overnight visit, and they reached out to the the local wells pastor, and he even offered to pick up the um the young man and and take him to the take him from the airport. And then there was another situation where they were looking into moving, and then the local Wells pastor they connected with, he had uh had them over for dinner, and and this person didn't grow up wells, and they just thought this was so cool. Um, that we have just this like spirit of connection in our synod. And and I said, I think sometimes our familiarity in the synod people think it's like, oh, this is weird. And and we talked about with her, and it's like it is weird, but it's weird in a good way. And so we don't need to be we don't need to be embarrassed of this. Um we're we want to bring someone into something, and hey, we're gonna bring you into this this family atmosphere that's not just our congregation, but is is across the nation. And and so let's just be confident in who we are, let's be comfortable, comfortable in our own skin.

SPEAKER_01 51:19

Yeah, I think that's something that is really uh important to encourage as we have uh these approaches and these conversations with people. Uh so whether it's a doctrine you're kind of like sheepish to bring up with them, or if it's just some idiosyncrasies that you perceive. Uh well, first of all, the doctrine. If that's what God's word says, that's what God's word says, yeah. Like uh just proudly proclaim it. I understand like the hesitancy to say, hey, this this is really counter-cultural, but God has convinced you of this truth. Trust in the Holy Spirit's power to convince them in of that truth as well, and just share it with them. This is what the Lord says, and then you know, yeah, and as you talk about this this cultural aspect of it, and just uh we we can kind of see things, and it's so easy to um maybe bash wit when you're within, but and fail to see what a wonderful blessing we have in this whole community, and just say, hey, this is this is awesome, this is what we're part of. Yeah, and say, There's a reason I'm here, right? There's a reason I'm at this church, there's a reason I'm part of this church body, and uh I bet my friends would love to be a part of this as well.

SPEAKER_00 52:48

Yeah, and and that's really the advice I gave at that teacher's conference. Like, so you're you're a Lutheran teacher, there's a reason you teach in a Lutheran school. Uh you there's a reason you teach at one of our Wells schools. Um, you're there's a reason you go to a Wells church. So if if you're if you think this is important and you think this is a good thing, then then share that with others. Now you mentioned that idea about doctrine. And I I think that one of the doctrines people are very afraid of uh when it comes to outreach is close communion. And that's where I just want to give the pitch, like um, first Corinthians 11 is very clear. Uh we we can't give this up. And I I don't like the I the methods of taking the Lord's Supper out of the worship service. I think that uh the worship service kind of uh has a flow to it that helps to lead to the Lord's Supper and helps people to examine themselves before they receive this gift. It is um the main gathering for the believer in the congregation. So when you take it out, they're not maybe receiving it um often. And then it's also it is a proclamation of the gospel. That's what we're told in 1 Corinthians 11. Uh, we declare the Lord's death until he comes. And so um it is good for even people who are not part of the the church to witness this, and but people are afraid because they're they're gonna offend their family member, their friend, or or the visit, the potential visitor. And and with that, I would just encourage someone to say to to think like or I guess this is the encouragement I would give. I have found this to be a conversation starter much more than a deterrent. I have had many more conversations with people about, hey, do you want to receive this? This is what this is how you can become a part of this this community of believers. This is how you can be a part of this church. And and I don't think the idea of membership is completely foreign to people either. You can't just walk into a gym and and start working out, you can't just walk into Costco. Obviously, this is different, and and there are some complications like I'm a Christian, um, but there are very strong biblical reasons to practice closed communion. This is the doctrine that Paul's really laying out in First Corinthians 11. And I have actually just found it as an opportunity, and so don't be embarrassed of our practicing of closed communion. Um, don't make that a reason to not invite family members and friends. Um, this is actually that that's kind of like an incentive in a way. Like, hey, this is why you shouldn't, this is why you can keep coming back and and join this church to receive this wonderful gift.

SPEAKER_01 55:36

Yeah. And again, a reminder for everyone like the Holy Spirit has convinced you that this is the truth, that this is what God's word says. Uh so if it's not, uh if it's true, it's true. And then humanly speaking, if it hasn't caused you to leave, yeah, then why are you just gonna assume that the Holy Spirit can't work powerfully in the heart of your friend to be convicted of this truth as well? So yeah, just put it forward, uh, be confident in in these things. Uh so this has been kind of the do's and don'ts of uh of personal outreach and witnessing. We re we recognize that there is a lot of the human aspect to this of just how we interact with other people. And uh tying to uh one of my do's of cut to the chase and one of my don'ts that I've shared in that Bible study, don't get distracted. This is a mission that we have while it is still day, but we are waiting for Jesus to return. Where we get to share the works of him who has saved us and share that message with other people. All right. All right, God bless you. Thank you for joining us. God bless you today and always.