Do Christians care about the environment? (Ep. 20)

In this episode, Pastors Chris and Tony dig into the polarizing topic of environmentalism and ask a simple but important question: What does it look like for Christians to care for creation without losing sight of the Creator?

They explore the biblical foundation of stewardship in Genesis, the distinction between dominion and exploitation, and how the doctrine of vocation shapes everyday decisions about caring for the world around us. Along the way, they tackle common tensions. 

Is recycling a Christian duty? How should believers think about climate change debates? Can care for the environment become idolatrous? And what does it actually look like to love your neighbor through wise stewardship?

Expect a thoughtful, confessional Lutheran conversation that keeps Christ at the center while offering practical wisdom for faithful living in God’s world.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

What's the Christian's response to environmentalism? Is this something we care about when it comes to preserving, reusing, reducing, recycling, conservation? It seems often that the conversation about caring for the earth and uh the resources within it are always couched in terms of political talk, right versus left. However, the truth of the matter is that God's word has a lot to say about how we as his people care about the earth that he created. So today we're going to talk about the Christian's approach to the environment. Earth Days coming up just tomorrow as we record this, and it's something that's on our mind about how do we care about, how do we think about this world that God has given to us. So this is Double Portion, a podcast where twin Lutheran pastors talk about uh studying the scriptures and applying the truth of God's word to our lives. My name is Chris Flugheft. I'm the pastor at Grace Lutheran Church in Yorbalinda, California, joined by Tony Flugeft, my twin brother and pastor at Christ Divine Lutheran Church in Temecula, California. So, Tony, how would you want to get us started talking about the environment, environmentalism, and our response as Christians?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Well, first, I think I just wanted to affirm that this is a difficult issue because it is so heavily politicized in a way that people will even mock the views of others. Why should I use a paper straw? Why can't I use plastic bags? They just got rid of paper bags a few years ago, now they're getting rid of plastic bags again. You hear people talk about global warming, and they're like, well, when we were kids, it was global cooling. And they kind of mock the ideas on the one side, but then you kind of have a mockery on the other side of these people who deny um climate change and caring for the environment are anti-science. And so there's not really a lot of middle ground of talking about a Christian approach to these matters because it's so extreme, one side versus the other. And I think that's one of the things we want to try to do today is try to um move past the political extremes and think what does scripture have to say about this? Uh, but then I think it'd also just be good for us to kind of define the question, what do we mean um when we're talking about environmentalism? And I think that's really the operative word, because we're asking, should a Christian be an environmentalist? What does a Christian think about this stuff? Well, what do we mean when we say this? And I guess I don't know if you wanted to add anything to to help define that term.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Yeah. I I think one of the first uh pitfalls that we're going to want to avoid is idolatry. What can happen in a conversation about the environment and care for the earth is that people can mix idolatry into the conversation. It can be as crass as conversations about the universe as a living being, like the how the universe orchestrates things.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Or Mother Earth or Mother Earth, things like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:48

So it could be crass idolatry, but it could also be uplifting the effects of humans or the needs of animals far above their proper place. Uh so what can happen if people talk about uh the human effect uh in the environment is they can assign more culpability and power to humans than they truly have in these situations. Uh so we do have to recognize that there is someone who has greater control over all these things than we do, and that's the God of the universe who whose hand holds all these things together. So if we start a conversation about a proper approach to the environment and environmentalism without a knowledge that God is the one who's in control of all things, God is the one who sustains the heavens and the earth, then we're going to very easily fall into forms of idolatry in this conversation. Either the humanism that uplifts humans beyond their true capability, or uh the animism that assigns uh almost deity to the earth itself.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, I think the humanism is really a major issue. And you have so many on the one side of this issue that advocate for environmentalism who functionally are atheists. Um maybe they might hold some affinity to a deity of sorts, but functionally speaking, um they're atheists, and and so then the thought is, well, we have this world and we need to take care of it, um, which is fine at its own right, but but it's really more than a taking care of it. It's we need to save it. We we need to do everything that we can to stop the problems. And like you're saying, there's no frame of reference for um the cause of decay and destruction in this world, and there's this um uplifting of the human ability to control things beyond what humans really can do. And and so it's hard to have this conversation with many people because they're working from a materialistic worldview where there is no God, there is no greater being, there's just us. And so I understand if someone's coming from an atheistic worldview why they would come to this position, because this life is all that we have. So we need to to fix this world. Uh the other the other issue I think is sometimes there's also a missed like um logical conclusion of what where their worldview leads. Because if you don't have a God, why should anyone care at all what anyone does? I mean, I just do what's good for myself. Uh you would think it would lead people to a very selfish and empowered view of life to just kind of do what they want to do, because there's no one I'm accountable to. And and in some ways it it actually testifies to the reality of a God that there is some sense of right and wrong. Um, although sometimes they're of course their right and wrong is disordered, uh, but there's a sense of like, hey, we want to care for this planet, and and that there's a grain of truth in there. But it is a complicated conversation with many on that environmentalist side because functionally they're atheists.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

Yeah, I I think that is uh part of the difficulty in this conversation, and you're pointing it out uh that we just have a completely different frame of reference, of mindset on these things as people uh of the book, as people of the scriptures, and going to the very beginning of the scriptures, and this helps us begin this conversation, uh, where Moses writes, In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. So with the very first verse in Scriptures, uh, Moses assumes this key truth, that there is a God, and he's going to tell you throughout this book who that God is. And you you start from the very beginning of creation, and then it narrows into one family, but testifying who is this God and what is he doing and how is he working through his people.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

One thing I was just thinking um with the creation account really beginning teaching us who God is, it's really a shame that there are so many even seemingly conservative Christians, even conservative Lutherans outside of our fellowship, that have given up on this matter and and kind of find that they don't speak with their chest and say they believe what they believe, and and they won't say six days of creation, or they won't say 24 hours. And and that's one of the things that um the the some are insistent, like this natural day is six natural days. Like, what does that mean? Okay, technically could there have been 25 hour days? Okay, but like that's the the point of saying six twenty-four hour days is communicating that a day is a day as we know it. Because people can there's wiggle room in natural days, yeah. And but this isn't something we can just give up on because it's this really sets the way that we understand the world, and it's woven throughout scripture. Throughout scripture, it talks about God being creator and and and so many different instances, even the giving of the Ten Commandments. Um, in in six days the Lord created the world, and seventh day he rested. Um Jesus talks about this when he's talking about marriage in the beginning, God created male and female, and and so creation is just so intrinsic into our world view, and which is really important as we talk about the environment and taking care of this world, that I just don't understand how Christians think that they can give up on this matter.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Yeah, and this is something that uh as I teach adult catechesis, typically call it Bible information class, Bible basics, something like that. The second lesson that I usually cover is creation. And and it's this clear testimony that we're gonna say this transforms our view of the world. Obviously, the gospel and what Christ Jesus transforms, uh, maybe in the most premier way, but this is such an important aspect of our of our understanding of life, of our understanding of the faith. To have that very beginning. Moses is writing, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. He assumes there is a God. I'm gonna tell you who this God is. As Moses is writing, he's writing a historical narrative, and you read a historical narrative as a historical narrative, so that means you take these truths literally. So when you read the word uh that it was so the evening, there was evening and there was morning the first day.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

And some people call this poetic, but it's not Hebrew poetry. Um and poetic is just kind of uh a word used to explain away the fact that it's not Hebrew poetry, but to say what you want to say about it. It's narrative, it's written as Hebrew narrative.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yeah. So then he's saying he's describing a normal, we would say 24-hour day. Evening and morning. They had a different perspective. They would start the day with the night and say evening, then morning. We would probably say morning, then evening, but a normal day. And then you're pointing out that this is not poetry. You could go to Psalm 90, which says to the day that uh to the Lord, a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years is like a day. That is poetry where symbolism is natural. Even though Psalm 90 is written by Moses, and so is this. Uh, there are different genres of literature, and there are other markers within this creation account to take these as six twenty four-hour days in which God created the heavens and the earth. And as we approach our conversation on environmentalism, it's important to recognize God is the one who created this, and then to talk about how did he create it originally? And originally we see it was good, it was good, it was good. He creates humanity, it is very good. So, as God created the world, there were no problems, there was no sin. He created a perfect world.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Yeah, yeah, and so that helps us to understand um that God does care about this world, He's the creator and and He preserves this creation, and and most of all He can cares about humans. And and so as humans, we also then care for this world because God cares for it, but also in that creation account, uh He gives this land to Adam to care for it. So you you go down to verse 26, and uh in that Genesis chapter one, then God said, Let us make mankind in our image and our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea, and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them, male and female. God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful and increase number, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves along the ground. God has put the crown of his creation, humans, in a position of authority over the animals in the land. They are to rule over this, they are to care for it. And I think assumed there is a proper stewarding of this world, a proper care. So not only do we care for this world and the animals in it, because God cares for this world that he created, but also that he has tasked humans with this responsibility to care for what he has given to us, this responsibility of stewardship.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

Yeah. Have dominion and subdue it. In this, we see the care for creation, but also the freedom to use the resources. And uh w what we're gonna end up doing is get kind of getting into a conversation about wise use and stewardship of these resources. Uh but as God gives the earth for men and woman to use it, he there he is going to have this freedom to use according to your need the resources that are provided. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 15:45

See maybe not fast forward is the right word, but you zoom in in chapter two, and chapter two, verse 15 and 16, you see it says the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the Lord God commanded the man, you are free to eat from any tree in the garden, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat it, you will certainly die. And so, um, like you kind of mentioned, there's this responsibility to care for, but there's also some of this freedom to to use, besides that one tree that they couldn't, to use what they needed to use.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then this is within the the perfect world. Uh so while the world was perfect, there was no death, as the wages of sin is death. Uh so this means that uh Adam and Eve wouldn't have died. I think we can also apply this to animals as well. And at this time, animals were not uh a resource for them as in regard to food, at the very least. Uh, but death uh comes into the world as a consequence of sin. And then it's Genesis chapter 3 that really starts to open our eyes to the reality of the world that we live in now, because we don't live in the perfect world anymore. We live in a world that has felt the consequences and the effects of sin. So you can see with uh how God speaks to Adam and Eve after they fall into sin. So we have the devil disguised himself as a serpent and deceives Eve, and Adam eats along with them, and they sinned against God. And at the very beginning, God speaks a curse upon the devil, which is a promise for them. But then he does also talk about the reality of what life in this world which is now marred by sin will look like. And he says to Adam, because you have heeded the voice of your wife and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying you shall not eat of it. Cursed is the ground for your sake, in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life, both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, and you shall eat the herb of the field, and the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken, for dust you are, and to dust you shall return. So God is speaking to Adam who who still is gonna work from the ground, and still has that command in charge to have dominion over the world and subdue it, but now God is telling him it's not gonna be easy. And as biblical Christians, we're gonna have our understanding of many of the difficulties environmentally speaking that we see are simply consequences of the fall into sin.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

And yeah, this is affirmed in in Romans chapter 8, verses 20 through 22, I think. For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to the decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God. We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. So we see there is this groaning of the pains of childbirth. Um this is what it looks like post-fall. Creation groans. So when we see problems in this world, we shouldn't be surprised because this is what a broken and sin-corrupted world looks like. And then even more so post-Jesus ascension, because Jesus told us that the signs of the end times wouldn't include uh these natural disasters. And so we shouldn't be surprised by these things. And that's where we're kind of checking um that that arrogance to think that we're kind of in control of all these things. Um, could some of these problems be human-induced? Like we're not taking the world, certainly. But some of the fact that we have these problems of natural disasters is just the fact that we live in a sin broken world and we are approaching that that day that our Savior returns.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah. So there is a dual nature to the consequence of sin harming this world. So we have just this fact as God had spoken this curse, and how the uh the the ground and uh in which Adam works would have toil. And we can assign this to say, very likely this means there weren't weeds before uh the fall into sin, and and now there are weeds. There weren't famines before the fall into sin, now there are famines. Uh the there likely weren't desert, arid uh ecosystems, and now there are, because the world doesn't work as God created. It's no longer very good. It's still good, it's still a gift from God. Scripture says that elsewhere, but it does not work as it should. But there is the other aspect of being the consequence of falling to sin, and that humans will do sinful things and they'll abuse this world, and they won't not properly take care of the world that God has given to them. So we have this balance to recognize there is human culpability, but there are is also an aspect of it that's totally out of the control of humans.

SPEAKER_01 21:49

Yeah, I I think another maybe thought to throw in there is something you mentioned, like it is still a good and beautiful creation. Whether you're thinking in Acts and Paul is In Athens. And he he talks about how they they have this knowledge of an unknown God. And he connects the the known with the unknown. They know that they don't know who God is. And he talks about the the the unknown God is the creator of all things. So God has made his presence known through natural means, through the beauty of creation, for us to um, he says, to seek him and find and find him. We don't need to get into like a whole Arminian conversation and how that passage works with that right now. Um, but God gives us this natural knowledge uh of who he is through creation. Um I don't know, maybe pulling up Psalm 19 right now, um I actually I have that up right here, and we see that the heavens declare the glory of God, the skies proclaim the work of his hands. Um just by looking at the creation, we see we have a creator who is wise, who is smart, who is powerful, and there is a value to this creation, and we want to take care of it because it declares his glory.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Yeah, the creation is is good, it works well, the times where things don't work as they should as a consequence of sin. So we have that balance to say, look at how amazing from the the galaxies to the molecular level, how amazing all of God's creation is. But then we also see things that don't work as they should. We see uh cells that start to reduplicate in ways that uh are not right, that create cancer as tumors. Uh we see uh bodies that don't work right, we see famines, we see tornadoes, we see lots of problems as well. So we we do have to have this balance to say this is a good creation and God controls it and works through all of it, but then there are also these things that don't work properly because of sin.

SPEAKER_01 24:13

So I think it might be valuable. I think we've established kind of what the Bible says about this. God created all things, uh, human rebellion as attempted by Satan corrupted this world. We live in a corrupted world that has problems, and and part of the problems are exacerbated by sinful people doing sinful things. But also, this world is still a beautiful gift from God uh that he has designed to provide for us and to show his beauty to show his power and and glory through the beauty of this world. So we've established that, and and I think now it'd be good to kind of establish then um our approach. And we I think it gets back to the beginning. We want to avoid those extremes. Um so the one the extremes on the one end that you're talking about uh like a humanism, a a view of human control beyond what we can actually do. We can't save this world. Like no matter what, this world is going to end, God told us this would happen. We can't save everything. So that is one extreme that we need to avoid. We also want to avoid the extreme on that end about human power that um everything's about us. Well, no, God sends the rains. Um God's in control of all things. And and so um we we need to make sure that we're not making it about us being the ones who are in control of all things. So we avoid that one extreme. But then there's also the extreme on the other end that would just say, well, then I suppose it doesn't matter. As though we can just neglect this creation and and not care for it, and even do worse, um, harm this good creation because um maybe we just think it doesn't matter, and maybe it's even this like whatever, like this neo-Gnosticism that the physical doesn't matter, so oh the spiritual is what matters, so we can just do whatever with the physical. Well, neglect is a problem as well.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Yeah. So grabbing into one of the things that you talked about with this humanistic approach to it, uh, where we can think that humans have absolute control, uh, another side of this that can happen is people can fail to give the proper view and uh approach to human nature, not just the sinful, but in the high position of humans in this world. Uh so then as people talk about uh creation, uh they can uh treat humans as if they're on the exact same level as every other living organism in this world. Uh but it it makes me think back to the the fall into sin and then the consequences that we see with it and with the uh the interaction between uh Cain and Abel. So Cain kills Abel and his blood testifies to God. And what we see is that although uh the image of God is marred in humans, they're no longer perfect and righteous. The image of God being created in the image of God still matters, and there is this important truth of human life that humans were created in the image of God. Uh so God holds it as a big deal with this first murder. Uh, but then you go to right before that, and how did God provide clothing for Adam and Eve? It says that God made tunics of skin, animal skin, and clothed them. Uh maybe it's a little bit too much of a leap to say that God likely he killed animals for that, but he's using animal skin to clothe the humans. So there is this higher position of humans even in this fallen world and sacrifice in the sacrificial system.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Exactly. God would never and did never advocate for human sacrifice beyond like obviously Christ and and Isaac who was not actually sacrificed. So the the sacrificial system was not human sacrifice, very different. Um and I I think that can be kind of one of the errors like we're talking about in this regard is um that humans are just noble apes and that everything else is is equal, and it it simply is not. And we need to be okay with that. Like humans are the higher priority.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

So then as uh we have our conversation about environmentalism, we need to have that proper understanding of the higher position of humans to say uh while we want to protect and care for animals, uh there is a different position for humans in this this life. And we recognize, although scripture doesn't use this exact phraseology, this re represents a scriptural truth that humanity is the crown of God's creation. And so then we we want to approach our care of this environment to just say the well-being of a human is higher than that of an animal.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Yeah. One of the things I think I wanted to do do with this now, so we've kind of talked about the pitfalls and potential errors, is maybe just talking about what this looks like in our lives. So, what does this look like when I approach public policy? What does this look like in my own life? Um, what does this look like as I'm teaching my children? Because uh this isn't just abstract conversations, this is lived out in the Christian life. How do I serve God in my approach to this world that's been given to us? And so maybe we could talk about it from that that idea of like public policy. Uh the Christian is going to vote. Um, are they bound to vote for someone who uh is advocating for environmental protection or or how does that work? What would you say? What kind of guidance would you give?

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Yeah. There's no Bible passage that we would have a thus saith the Lord on this is how a Christian must vote on whether or not uh plastic bags can be used, right? You can't use plastic bags in California anymore. We both live in California. So then uh that that's a real question that a Christian might consider. Um now not to cop out of telling people what they they should do, but to recognize that as a Christian you have uh sanctified reasoning that's been given you by the Holy Spirit, and and uh that that is something you're gonna have to to judge. And there's a whole gambit of other things to consider, right? So as you approach it and say, how big of an issue is uh consumable plastic use? Are there bigger issues uh such as the plastic productions using pr plastic? So it is something that you as a Christian are going to have to consider. I would advise against just saying who cares, but uh what I what I wouldn't feel comfortable saying is this is how a Christian needs to approach this question.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Yeah. So I I think that there's obviously different situations where this comes up. Uh do you vote for the politician who is running on the platform of care for the environment? Or when there's the specific um I forget what they're called, those little votes that you have where it comes up and um do you say yes or no to this? And and it'll propose like whatever, bl banning single use plastic. And so those are different situations, because the one um is directly yes or no on this specific issue, and and that's where you can say like there's there's a lot to be considered uh with single use plastic. Like is it um is it that substantial a problem or not? Well, that's kind of for you to determine. But then that the politician, that's where you're you're kind of dealing with uh this is one issue among many. And this seems to be maybe a little different than abortion, euthanasia, um, or other matters of human sexuality, where there is a clear thus saith the Lord. So God tells us to care for this world, um, but then also there's that freedom to use this world in certain ways. And so it's there's more nuance to that question about how this affects the way you vote. Because for for your realistic situation, there your choice might be between the person who's advocating for abortion and the person who's advocating for um environmental protection policy. Well, one ends a human life directly and the other doesn't. So it's I I understand why this might be an issue that isn't their number one priority. So uh it's one of the things uh Christian needs to consider through these issues. And like you said, um it's not as simple as, well, the gospel changes hearts and people are gonna be moved it. We need to just focus on the gospel. That's true, the gospel does change hearts, but it is good for us to talk about what's good for my neighbor. And and preserving this world is good for my neighbor, and it's good for our children, and and it's good for the generations that will come after us.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah. And on one hand, we said hold up the well-being of humans above other things. On the other hand, there are times where we as Christians are gonna say, I'm going to embrace the fact that things will become more inconvenient for me for the sake of a greater good. Yeah. Uh to to say, hey, I I recognize that um it is more challenging. Um I'm trying to think of one that has like a felt.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Although it would maybe be a little more complicated to keep a water bottle with me. That's probably a better solution than using this. No, hopefully this gets recycled. I I don't know what the you always hear about different things with recycling. But that might be an example where it's like a minor inconvenience of having to wash a water bottle and carry it around with me is probably the better course of action. Um, but that's maybe getting more into like the individual actions that I wanted to get into next versus the public policy.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah. Well, and I think the the truth of the matter is as Christians, it can be so easy to turn voting for public policy as my number one way to uh live out my Christian life. But the reality is you're gonna have far more impact on these daily activities and and decisions that you make and things that you do. Uh so let's not just always push everything onto public policy and that one time every other every two years that you vote on something, but say what can I do. Yeah. Well how however often uh you vote on things, uh, but instead say what can I do in the situation that God has placed me right now to love my neighbor and to to love this creation as a given.

SPEAKER_01 36:38

Maybe that that is worth asking. Um, should the Christian opt to use the water bottle instead of the plastic water bottle? Do they care? Um, is it even worth talking about? Is it worth thinking about? I think we we would say yes. But I think that's an example. Your real your real world life. Uh you live in a state, they live, or other people live in a state where you don't have to pay for bags. Should you be bringing that um reusable bag? Or all sorts of different examples of things that kind of people in our in our country have said, like, this is a small way to help. Um, I I think one obvious way would be like don't litter, just because it's like rude to your neighbors as well. Like, no one wants to see garbage laying all over the place, and we know it's not good for the world around us. So that's a clear one. I think no one's gonna disagree with that. Yeah, littering's a bad thing, don't do that. Or uh if you change the oil in your car, don't just like dump the oil in your car into the local pond. Like, obviously, that's bad. But on those kind of more day-to-day decisions, um, is that something we should think more about, or is it kind of indifferent?

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Yeah. There there's a ditch on both sides. We could care too much about these things that just rules our life and it's all we ever think about, or we could just be totally oblivious and never think about it at all. And I wouldn't advise for that either. And just say living in this world, being a steward of this gift that God has given, uh does require intentionality in so many things. In the same way that we shouldn't uh just totally just spend our money without ever thinking about it. Uh we shouldn't use these resources that God gives us without ever thinking uh about it, and just saying, uh I'm not gonna recycle because I don't care. Uh maybe you're gonna come to a conclusion that you don't think the resources that are used for recycling are the uh best possible. Uh, but your answer shouldn't just be like, well, I haven't thought about it and I don't care, so I'm just gonna throw everything out because it's easier for me. Uh but instead, as Christians, we do want to think about the actions that we make and the actions we take and how we interact in this world and have intentional decisions of this is why I'm going to buy this water bottle and refill it, because I recognize that one-time use consumable plastics aren't going to be the uh more optimal way to do this.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

Yeah. I think one of the things you could even talk about is the fact that not caring about these things is wasteful. So not only does it perhaps hurt your neighbor by damaging this beautiful creation, but it's actually just wasteful of things that God has given to us. And so um you're not gonna just throw things out and buy something new all the time. It it is good to think about how I can best reuse. I I think that's just a good attitude. Is how can I reuse things? Because I want I don't want to be wasteful in this world.

SPEAKER_00 40:06

Yeah. And then you think of other decisions that you make as a Christian in this world. One of them that I would consider is transportation decisions. Uh that might be one that we don't think about all that often, uh, but perhaps w we could put more thought into it and ask questions about carpooling. Now, I'm gonna pause there and say uh the truth of the matter is in the United States, many times public transportation and carpooling just isn't a a feasible option to the life and the work that we offer that we have. Or you have a large family and you you can't carpool with other people because there's just no more seating in your car. So that's not always an option. Uh but uh again to think about is my personal convenience always the thing that rules the day with the decisions I make? Uh I'll call out pastors and say, uh, you have a pastor's conference and you say, I'm gonna drive separate so that I can have a car there because it's gonna be more convenient. But perhaps the better answer is to say carpool with other pastors to the conference. Uh it's a better use of resources, it's for your car for your congregation or for yourself, and m potentially a better use of these natural resources that God has given to us.

SPEAKER_01 41:42

Yeah, so it's it's hard because I I think this is maybe like a convicting issue for a lot of Christians because uh we don't. And then there's also just kind of a powerless, it's like, well, who what I'm one one person out of seven billion in the world, and I it's not I mean, then the defenses go up a lot. I mean, like you get the whatever, the Taylor Swifts who say don't do this, and then she's flying a private jet all over the place. Her private jet's a lot worse than my car. And I think it's so easy to just say, like, uh, to really just say, like, well, why does it even matter? And and I think a lot of Christians might just have that attitude. Um, but I do think there is value in considering this. Like you're saying, what are those small decisions? Um, can I carpool? Uh, can I be a little less wasteful? Um, can I even um within my own vocation encourage others to be less wasteful as as well? And because um again, whether you think that humans have complete control or not, we're gonna say they don't, uh there are certain things that are are clearly not good. Like when you just throw the garbage and the animal eats it or whatever, like we know that's not good. And some of these problems are extremely modern in nature because generate a couple generations ago they didn't have all of this single-use plastic. They didn't have cars that they were driving, they didn't have uh electricity in their house to to run at all hours of the day. And so um it is a very modern issue for us to consider uh that just what didn't exist in the way that they lived their lives previously, but I think it is worth not just throwing up our hands up and saying whatever, but actually seriously considering um what can I do to be a good steward within my own right, a good steward of this world that God has given to me because I want to say thank you to God for this wonderful gift, and and I take care of it. I mean, you you think of the different illustrations that um pastors might use in a sermon about saying thank you, and so um. The the kid receives an ugly sweater from grandma and says thank you to her face, but then never wears it again. Is he really thankful? No, y he's not. He didn't like the gift. Um the kid gets a PlayStation 5 from his mom and dad. He says thank you and then he uses it all the time. And he's not just gonna throw it in his backpack and carry it around and risk breaking it. He's gonna take care of it because he appreciates this gift. It is it is special to him, right? And so in a similar way, God's given us this beautiful world that is so enjoyable. I mean, God made this world beautiful for our blessing. Like beauty doesn't have to exist biologically speaking, but we have this beautiful world to appreciate. So we want to keep it beautiful and and and show our thanks through our actions because when someone thinks something, it's gonna lead to action. When they believe something, it's gonna lead to action. So if if you appreciate what God has given, it's gonna lead to action, it's gonna lead toward to taking care of what He's given to you.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So something that you touched on, I then I think what we're gonna recognize is maybe many of us, uh particularly in the United States of America, uh may feel convicted. Well, we may look at the times where it's like, you know, I didn't care enough, so I just I I didn't even think about it. I uh I I wasted, I didn't use resources well, uh the clothing ripped and I just threw it out when maybe that wasn't the best decision. And although we're we might not feel comfortable saying each and every time that specific action was a sinful action, what we can say is many times it comes from a heart of sin. A heart of unthankfulness, uh a heart of a lack of care, it's that heart that does not properly approach stewardship. And the answer for us Christians is confession. It's going to the Lord and confessing our sins to him. And I think the act of obedience, the perfect life that Jesus lived, it would be very helpful for us to say that the God of the universe who created all of these thing things himself took flesh and lived in this world. And he lived a perfect life in every single way. Uh and that means his stewardship of these resources uh was perfect too. So that Jesus, when he lived in this world, he wasn't wasteful of resources, he he wasn't improperly approaching the gifts that God gives, but he he was perfectly thankful and he perfectly handled these things in our place. So then we can look to Jesus as uh our solution because he died on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins, and he also gave us his perfect life, and then gives us confidence for a perfect world beyond this.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

And that's something I'd really want to hammer home with the conversation about a Christian's view on environmentalism. Ultimately, we aren't gonna save this world, but we know who did, our Lord Jesus Christ, and he gives us the hope of the new heavens and the new earth. And so there will be a restored creation. Again, we're not just gonna be uh playing a harp sitting on a cloud as disembodied spirits. We're gonna be in the new heavens and the earth in our flesh and in this perfect creation that our God has in store for us. And and so that's what we get to look forward to is a physical reality that doesn't have the pain of corruption the corruption of sin. And and so Jesus is the one who solved all of these problems for us. We can't solve it, we never could, uh, we would never be able to. Uh you think of Tower of Babel issue is like uh the the human effort to try to be God is going to fail. But Jesus has done it all, and he gives us this hope, this future reality of the new heavens and new earth, a a creation without pain, without suffering, without corruption. That's the hope that we have as Christians.

SPEAKER_00 48:38

Yeah. And then as people who have this hope, it moves us forward as we make decisions to live in this world and to seward the resources. We listen to God's instruction that He gave to Adam, have dominion and subdue it, and have approach these things with proper care. And as we approach these things with proper care, I think it's good for us to recognize there are things that are just clearly black and white. Uh, that waste is wrong, that we don't want to just totally waste and not care about the things that God has given to us. Uh, that uh there are things that are proper and right to take care of the world that God has given to us. But then also to approach these things with humility and say there are things that we just don't understand. We we're not far enough removed from it yet to have that clear answer. I think one of them is going to be the big question of microplastics. Uh, there was a study recently that that revealed that uh there's a potential contamination in previous studies of microplastics and how much are mixed into everything because of the gloves that the scientists were using. So they're tracking the plastic from their gloves rather than the plastic that's just present in things now. Uh so then some of these questions uh we we just we aren't all knowing. We we don't have all the answers yet. So then we do have to approach this with some humility and say, you know, I don't know. Uh I do want to do something that's good and pleasing to God, but I don't know the answer to this yet.

SPEAKER_01 50:23

And so some of it in that humility might just be common sense. Like I said, um just dumping crude oil into a pond, not good. Um hurting an animal with no reason, um, probably not good. So you like you're not saying that hunting is a bad a bad thing. Um people talk about the environmental benefits of hunting, population control, things like that. But like like I think people know what we mean. Like you hear about those stories of whatever serial killers and the way they abused animals when they were a little like obviously that's not a good thing. There's very real common sense things. Like um, I'm I'm just buying new things, breaking them, and throwing them out all the time, and and not caring about um what happens with that production, or I'm just um I'm constantly just leaving all the lights on in my house. Well, that's that beyond wasting money, that's that's wasteful of resources. So I think there's some clear common sense things that it's like, hey, I want to do a better job with that, but then just being humble, saying we don't know, we're gonna do our best, and and maybe following that advice that was given um sin boldly. Yeah. Um, so it's like, okay, I'm I I have weighed all the factors, I know everything that I can know to the degree that's possible for me to know now, and this is the way I'm gonna go forward. And if I'm missing out on something, if it's like, oh yeah, actually driving all the time was not a good thing, well Lord forgive me for the sins of my ignorance, and this is why we we pray that God forgives our hidden faults.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

Yeah. You had touched on uh hunting, and I think there's an interesting thing. The the big hunters that I know in my life are probably the most responsible with the God-given resources. Uh and that's something I think we we're given these resources for our good. Uh Peter received that vision, take NH, right? So then there's no unclean animal. Uh so then what what I can think of is many of the the hunters that I know uh who are very responsible with these things, they're not just killing an animal and walking away and saying, well, it's fun to kill an animal, but yeah they're providing food for their family, uh, and they're thinking about the whole animal, what can I use here as a resource, not just wasting. So uh there there are people who are very much in touch with using the resources and using them responsibly.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Yeah. And I just wanted to maybe circle back on on one other thought of just just how complicated some of these issues are. Like you were talking highlighting that hunting can be complicated because it's like, hey, they're they're really good at reusing these things, using these resources. Or I was even thinking how someone might say, like, okay, so you're saying that gas is wasteful. Well, the electric car isn't any better because whatever we need coal to make that electricity. Though what do we do with the batteries when we're done with them? Um, and when people use things like a wind turbine, it's an eyesore, um, and it does it disrupts that beauty of creation, or the those offshore wind turbines or the turbines that are in the water are are problematic as well. And and so there's all these other issues about um these alternative sources that many will advocate. Well, it's not any better. And so that's I think that's the other thing that can make this complicated, is like, well, what is the answer then? It's really easy to point out problems and say, um, this is problematic, uh, gas is wasteful, but then there's what am I supposed to do? And then someone might say, Well, I I'm trying to support a family, and I need that car to get to work. And I think that's where we kind of lean on the reality that it's like, well, human humans are important, and uh and we are doing our best to follow God's will to to serve and love our neighbor and and the neighbor who is most directly given to us, our family. So, yeah, you have a a gas-guzzling car, well, you use that to get to work to care for your kids, and that's really all you have access to. Uh, so these things can be quite complicated, and and that's where it really becomes stressful if you think about it too much. Also, it's like again, you just feel powerless. What am I supposed to do?

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Yeah, I I can think of like a personal example. Uh so the price of uh crude oil has increased as of late due to uh some uh affairs that are in the world. And uh now we live in California, gas prices were already expensive, and then one of my vehicles uh can take ethanol, E85 gas. Uh so then kind of weighing the uh the information here and then asking the question, like, well, I've heard there's negatives to the production of ethanol uh because of the use of water to grow the corn. I also heard it's not as good for your uh your engine, and that can actually decrease the usability of this big resource of your vehicle. Uh so balancing some of these things, but then with ethanol being about half the price of uh of gasoline, unleaded gasoline right now. So it's hard to make these decisions. As Christians, uh, that is where we can uh just take comfort and solace in the fact uh of uh of God's control, of his love, of the Holy Spirit uh giving us sanctified wisdom, and uh then we do have that freedom in the gospel. Yeah. Or we don't have to be tied up every moment and saying, Well, is this going to be the sin that destroys me for eternity? Or is this going to be the action that destroys my life? And say, I can move forward in the grace of God.

SPEAKER_01 56:49

Yeah. And just give that encouragement to people to enjoy the beauty of creation and to God has given us this world with a purpose to declare his glory. So go for that hike, um, go to the the beach if you can, or the lake, or whatever it might be, and and enjoy this creation, uh, because although you don't feel closer to God through that, God comes to you in word and sacrament, um, you also do learn about God from creation and and he has given it to you for a purpose and and appreciate it and and say thank you to him through your words but also through your actions.

SPEAKER_00 57:28

So Earth Day is tomorrow, uh, and once this is released, maybe it was yesterday. Uh, but this weekend may be a good opportunity to contemplate and say, uh, how can I uh think about this creation God has given to me and steward it? I know here in Yorbelinda there is a big volunteer effort called uh like We Love Your Belinda Days. Uh there's a very good chance that other areas have opportunities to do cleanups and things like that. We went when we were in San Clemente at the beach, I saw a sign about an Earth Day cleanup. Perhaps it would be a good opportunity for Christians who have the proper approach to these things to say, how can I join in on some of these efforts to care for this world that God has given to us? God bless. God bless.