Hello everyone, and welcome to Idea Exchange, a podcast by the Association of Schools and Programs of Public Health. I'm your host, Miranda Bossey, and today we're going to be talking about a topic that sits at the intersection of education, technology, and equity, which is, of course, accessibility. Today's guest is Leah Roman, an accessibility-focused instructional designer and public health consultant with more than 15 years of experience in health education, training, technical assistance, and workforce development. As the founder and principal consultant of Roman Public Health Consulting, Leah helps public health, healthcare, and public safety organizations create accessible, engaging, and effective learning experiences. Her unique career path combines expertise and public health practice, instructional design, and digital accessibility, helping organizations move beyond simply sharing information to creating learning environments where everyone can fully participate and succeed. Leah holds a Master of Public Health from Boston University and holds a certificate in instructional design from the University of Washington. She also holds a Master of Certified Health Education Specialist, also known as the MCES. Leah, thank you so, so much for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Thank you so much for having me. So I'd really like to start out by diving into your career path. I know you've done a lot of different things throughout your career and continue to do them all at the same time. So, you know, looking into public health and instructional design, you've had a career that you've built, you know, bridging public health, health education, instructional design, and accessibility. So what first drew you to public health? Um, and how did your career evolve into the work that you are doing today in instructional design?
SPEAKER_01Thanks. I, you know, it's always really fun to revisit the career path. And, you know, I always tell students and new grads like, don't feel like you need to know what you need, what you're gonna do for the next 20 years because you are just gonna go in all directions that maybe you did not anticipate. So I have been working in public health for just over 20 years now. I graduated with my MPH in 2006. Um, shout out to Boston University. I had a wonderful experience in their program. Um, my interest in public health started back in college. So towards the end of college, I was volunteering at my local Planned Parenthood Clinic. And that volunteer position um transitioned to a full-time paid position when I graduated. And I was a reproductive health assistant, kind of a combo between medical assistant and health educator. And while I was there, I realized I was very interested in sort of the bigger picture health issues that were going on. So the way that our nurse was working with the local health department to report sexually transmitted infections, you know, understanding why so many college students were coming to our clinic and not to their campus clinics, um, and kind of talking about their concerns around, you know, privacy and other issues about where they sought care. And so that really got me thinking more with a public health lens instead of an individual level patient lens. And so um from there I applied to MPH programs, went to BU. Um, at that time, I was very interested in college health. And so that's when I initially got my Ches credential, um, because that is preferred or required in a lot of college health settings, worked in college health after graduation, but then wanted um to have a bigger impact, but also because I was new in my career, I really wanted to have more public health colleagues, people I could really learn from. So I started working at the Education Development Center, which is a global nonprofit, and I worked in their national training and technical assistance center that focused on suicide prevention. And I was working with college campuses across the country. So it kind of took the work I was doing on one campus and expanded it. Um that, you know, kind of drove my interest in injury prevention. And then when I moved to the Philadelphia area, um took a job at the Drexel School of Public Health and then worked in project management and research, and then from there moved into independent consulting in 2013. Um, and at the time I was more of a generalist. I was writing grants, I was kind of doing a little bit of everything. Um, but in the last six years have really niche down into working in e-learning instructional design for public health organizations specifically.
SPEAKER_02Wow, what an interesting story of how you kind of started out again in uh reproductive health and college campuses and understanding, okay, this is not just an individual uh clinic-based uh perspective, right? But broadening that horizon into public health and but then keeping that always kind of having that higher ed lens uh of college health and then moving from one thing to the next. I really love hearing everybody's different uh journey into public health, if you will, right? Because everybody's path is so unique. So uh I appreciate you sharing that, right? Because your journey in your path is certainly a unique one. And I think it really just elevates the fact that public health is not linear. Um, and it's really beautiful that so many of us just find so many different things that we're interested with in this industry, but that you can start in one place and kind of bounce into the next and the next and the next. And to you know, a point you made earlier, you don't have to have it all figured out, right, when you graduate high school or graduate college, right? And you can always pivot. And I think you're you're a testament to that. So, you know, kind of going off of all of the different things you've done in your career thus far. Obviously, a lot of the work that you do right now, of course, is accessibility, which we're gonna talk about more later on. So, was there a specific experience or moment in your career where you realized, yeah, accessibility is something that's really important that I want to focus on, um, that this is something that's essential to part of my work.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And there was there were like two experiences that happened pretty simultaneously that pointed me in the path of accessibility. So back in 2020, two things happened. One, I started that nine-month certificate program with the University of Washington in e-learning instructional design. Um, and and accessibility is a big part of instructional design and e-learning. And so that topic was very much highlighted in my program, in my classes. Um, it was a it was a very like hands-on type program where you were creating things. You were gonna walk out of that program with a portfolio of things. So integrating accessibility into what I was working on. Also, being the beginning of COVID, I was homeschooling my son, um, who at the time was in first grade. And so I became a first grade teacher. And wow. Um add that to the resume, right? No, it's not like I had anything to do, you know. So um, it kept me busy. And what was really fascinating is that, you know, I think you have in your head how kids learn, you know, they're sitting at a desk and they're doing worksheets and like, oh, this won't be so hard. Well, my son is neurodivergent. And so it was really eye-opening to teach him and to see that a lot of the traditional ways that we have taught kids don't work for his brain, right? And like online learning actually doesn't like screens don't really work well for him for all sorts of attention reasons. And um, you know, he really has to kind of similar to teaching adults, like he needs to understand why I am learning this. Like, why do I care about this? How can I integrate things that I'm passionate about? Um, he needs a lot of movement when he's learning. And so teaching him and then learning about accessibility at the same time, I thought to myself, like, wow, like he's gonna go on to, you know, middle school, high school, he's gonna be in college, he's gonna be in our workforce. And the way that we often teach does not work for him, does not work for neurodivergent brains or people that may um, you know, need different kinds of learning experiences. Um, so it really brought up for me those questions of like, who are we leaving out? And also what assumptions are we making about people who don't thrive in our traditional learning settings? You know, I think so many times I I look at him and I think, wow, if this had been 20 years ago, would people just think, you know, he's not smart or he doesn't care because he's bouncing all around, you know? In fact, this is a really highly gifted kid. Like, we're just like not putting him in a place where he can thrive. And so um it it totally changed my mindset about teaching and learning. And I think about him all the time when I create things, even though I create things for adult learners, is you know, what if he was in my classroom? Like what would help? Um, so those things together absolutely like put me on the path of accessibility.
SPEAKER_02Wow, that's that's incredible, right? That you were, of course, this culmination of experiences that you had in your professional journey, but also working with your son and realizing, okay, like I have, you know, a a child in my house who is a brilliant learner, but maybe some of the traditional methods of ways in which he's been learning and being taught are just maybe not working for him. So, what are other ways that we can work together in a collaborative sense that's going to be more beneficial for him? And I think that that's that's really empowering, right? To see there's a lot of different ways that we can do things. And it's not just a one track uh that this is the way we should do things for every single person, right? Because we're all unique individuals. Um and I think that's kind of a lot of what public health is too, is knowing who you're working with, hearing people out and and understanding how do I meet someone where they are, and then how do we move forward together. So what a beautiful sort of story that you were able to, I'm I'm imagining still learn from him uh every single day as you're, you know, working with your different clients and working with different um educators or or teaching others, right? So for some of our listeners who may not be as familiar with the field and some of the accessibility um instructional design things that you do, what exactly does an accessible instructional designer like yourself do? Um, and what does a typical project look like for you?
SPEAKER_01Sure. So, you know, and the reason I, you know, talk about my work as being accessibility focused is because, you know, what we have had historically um is that accessibility has often been an afterthought. It's something that we think about at the end of the project. You know, we've created the course, like we're about to upload the files. Let's make sure we add captions, check, check, check, right? Um, and so instead, we need accessibility to be something we're thinking about on day one that's integrated into our workflow. And so when I talk about being accessibility focused, that's how I do my work. So even how I run my business is accessibility focused. So if I'm working, you know, onboarding a new client, like I have a communication preference form and I ask them, how do you like to communicate? How do you like to share and get information? Um, you know, do you like have any concerns about using the video on Zoom? Because for some people with different disabilities, that can be very difficult for different reasons. You know, so I try to integrate accessibility thinking from the, you know, the first day to the day that I, you know, send over the final product. And what I hope to do with my clients is help them also integrate accessibility starting on day one. Um, and so that's the kind of work that I do. Um, in terms of typical projects, there's a there's a couple levels in how I work with people and I'll share what that looks like. So some people just need consultation, right? Like they're just like, I need to ask questions about this thing. I need to get started on this thing. So I have these pick my brain strategy sessions, which people can sign up for. Um so people may, you know, get in touch. We make like one to three priorities. So it may be something like, I want to integrate accessibility, you know, into our education department workflow, but I'm getting pushback from leadership. Can you help me, you know, brainstorm um, you know, an argument that I can make about, you know, the benefits of doing this? So those are the kinds of things I help people in strategy sessions. Um, I also do audits. So those are a really common service for me where someone can send me all their course materials or their health education website or health ed materials, and I will audit them for either I can do a general instructional design audit. So that's more broad and looks at, you know, are they integrating principles of adult learning and how they're designing things? Or I can do an accessibility-specific audit where we're looking at do these materials align with web content accessibility guidelines? So people can um ask me to help look at either existing materials or things that are in progress. And then finally, I do custom projects. Sometimes people approach and they're like, hey, I need help with this thing. It doesn't fall under audit, you know, or strategy. So for instance, I recently helped a client who was um they needed to get a new learning management system and they wanted to make sure it was accessible, but they didn't know what questions to ask or how to interpret the documentation that the companies were sharing, if their claims were actually accurate. Um, so they hired me to help lead that process of researching those different learning management systems and making some recommendations for purchase, you know, based on that research. Um, so, you know, those are some typical examples of how I work with people.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I want to go back to one of the things that you said uh right at the start of this question was that, you know, thinking about accessibility right at the start, not as an afterthought. Um, because I think some of the common misconceptions that we hear in the field is that accessibility is a technical consideration, right? And that it's it's very clear to me, especially based on everything that you are saying, is that it's it's fundamentally about how people experience learning and information, that it's not an afterthought, right? It's not just a technical component of a course, but you know, it needs to be something integrated right at the beginning and not just something, you know, saved for later, you know, for lack of a better term. So I want to talk more about accessibility itself and why it matters beyond just those compliance requirements that you know you may be working with, like with some of your clients that you had mentioned. So when people hear the word accessibility, they often might think about accommodations or disability services, but of course it's you know much more than that. So, in your you know, terms, how do you define accessibility and what do you wish more people understood about it?
SPEAKER_01I love this question. Um, I love starting with a definition because I often hear accessibility used interchangeably with other words. Um or I often hear accessibility interpreted in a different way in different environments. You know, for example, I went to a rural health conference recently. And when I said accessibility, people in that room immediately went to geographic accessibility because that's what they're often thinking about, or not having access to the internet. So having that kind of accessibility, but not disability focused necessarily. So I like starting with a definition so that we're all talking about the same thing. Um, I actually have the definition that I like to use nearby because I think it's really, you know, comprehensive and helpful. So this is from the National Center on Accessible Educational Materials. So we say that educational materials and technologies are accessible to people with disabilities if they are able to acquire the same information, engage in the same interactions, and enjoy the same services as people who do not have disabilities. Um, and so I I really like that definition because I think it applies to so much of what we do in public health. Um, and I also think it helps us understand the complexity, you know, because it's those are three different things. So maybe people can acquire the information, but they can't engage in the interaction, you know, or maybe they can interact with it, but they can't really enjoy those services because there's some other barriers. Um I think it raises those bigger questions. Um, but I think it's important to know, you know, when we talk about accessibility in this setting, um, especially we'll probably mention the Americans with Disability Act and some of those compliance pieces. You know, we're specifically talking about addressing um potentially discriminatory aspects related to having an equivalent experience for people who have disabilities.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that definition that acquire, engage, enjoy, right? And I think oftentimes that's even the first time I've heard that definition. And even that enjoy component is something that's never really addressed when we talk about accessibility in some of these things. So even that being a part of this, this very prominent definition, I think is so important to be elevated that, like you said, can you acquire those services? Maybe you can, but can you engage in them? Maybe you can engage, but you can't enjoy. And so it's having all of those different components that it's it's not just one, but it's all, and making sure that it's integrated right from day one, not you know, day three or day 40 or whatever, you know, step in the process, right? Absolutely. So, what are some of the most common misconceptions about accessibility that you encounter when working with whether it's different faculty, administrators, or different organizations from your expertise?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so there's a couple misconceptions, and I think they're also related to um, you know, your previous question where you asked about, you know, what do I wish more people understood? So I might kind of answer those two together. Um, the the first thing I wish more people understood, and we get to this, I think, with that definition we just discussed, is that this is a humans human rights issue. You know, I think I have encountered people who their perspective is is kind of comes across as like I'm doing people a favor by offering this accommodation, right? Or I'm doing you a favor by I'm gonna do this extra work so it's accessible for you. Um, and that is not the case. People, this is a human rights issue. Um, people have in our country a, you know, a legal right to have these things be accessible. Um, I I also think people sometimes don't think about how much we all benefit from accessible environments, you know. So for example, curb cuts in the sidewalks, right? Like those were created for wheelchairs. And I think any of us who have pushed a stroller, a heavy suitcase, um, we, you know, a kid on a bike, like we all use things that benefit us that have been innovated by and for um the disability community. And so I think that's important. And one other thing I want to mention that I think is really important, you know, before we go to some of these common misconceptions, because I think they're related, is that, you know, disability status is not static. And a lot of times I talk to people who think of it that way. Either, you know, there's people in my audience who are disabled or there isn't. Um, and that there are a lot of conditions and situations that can fluctuate, be temporary. You know, I may, you know, say I had signed on to this call today and I'm navigating along with my mouse as I always do. Well, if I broke my arm last week and I needed to talk to you on Zoom, well, I would need to navigate with my keyboard because now I can't use my mouse. And that's temporary for me. Um, but that comes up. And so, you know, or if I have migraines, maybe I could participate on a day with no migraine, but on a, you know, a migraine day, you know, kind of the the bright lights or other things, like I wouldn't be able to participate. And so I do think I wish more people understood that disability status um is not as black and white as I think it's portrayed. And you need to have that open mind when you go into, you know, design or just in thinking about who's in your audience, which leads me to um, I think one of the biggest misconceptions I hear, and I hear this from some clients when I start working with them, um, which is we don't have any disabled people either working here or in our audience. So this conversation is not relevant. And, you know, that's something that I help people work through right at the beginning because they're like, I don't even need to learn about this because, you know, this is a healthy occupational group. I'm using air quotes because I've had people say that to me. Oh, they're healthy enough to work because I do a lot of workforce development. Um, you know, if they had disabilities, they wouldn't be here. And so I think it's important to remind people that if you look at the CDC stats, you know, more than one in four adults in the US have a disability. And so the math doesn't math that there's nobody in your learning community on your workforce who has a disability. Um, and like we just talked about, there's gonna be people in and out with temporary or fluctuating conditions as well. So I think that's probably the biggest misconception. And then the other one I'll mention is that um I hear from a lot of people that accessibility is not their job. They're like, we have an accessibility coordinator, that's their job, or like we have an IT team and they deal with accessibility, that's not my job. Um, and I think for all of us, it's part of our job. Um, I know you have a lot of faculty that listen. Um, those of us who teach, it's our job because we are we are creating the content. Um, so accessibility is everybody's job, but I find that people sometimes push back on that.
SPEAKER_02That's that's so important that you just highlighted that, that accessibility is everybody's job, right? And it I just can't help but think that accessibility and equity just go hand in hand, right? And so everything I'm hearing you say, I'm just like, yeah, it makes sense to me, right? That like if if we make things more accessible for everyone, we make things more equitable for everyone, right? That, you know, the perfect example of a curb um that is wheelchair accessible, it is so much more accessible for so many different people, you know, even if you're not just pushing a stroller or riding a bike or whatever it may be, right? And so if we make things more accessible for everyone, that makes it more equitable. And so looking at accessibility as something that's not um doing somebody a favor, but like you said, it's a human right um to have these things. And and that's a really important um element that you highlighted. So I just want to call that out again because that is something that I think sometimes doesn't get acknowledged a lot when we do this sort of work. So you've helped us think about accessibility as again a broader equity issue. You know, some of these things that we were just talking about. It's not just a checklist, it's not just a legal obligation, right? It is truly a human right. And so many of our listeners, of course, work in academic public health where whether they're a dean, an administrator, a faculty, or students in public health. Um, so I want to talk about what accessibility really looks like in practice. So faculty, of course, often want to create more inclusive learning environments, but aren't always sure where to start, which you kind of talked about earlier, right? Yeah. So, what are some practical high impact changes that can make a meaningful difference for learners to make accessible platforms?
SPEAKER_01This is a great question because I I think, you know, when I've talked to some faculty, you know, some of their frustration is, you know, not only just maybe not knowing where to start, but even if they do know where to start, they're working within an inaccessible system. So say they have a learning management system that has some challenges regarding accessibility and they're feeling that that's like really holding them back. So I think a great place to start is to try to focus on what you can control. Like even if you're working within a larger system that has some accessibility concerns. Um, so that of course would be your own learning materials and teaching strategies and your assessment strategies and things like that. So for me, I think one of the biggest impact strategies is to make sure that there's more than one way for students to consume or engage with your information. So, what I mean by that is, you know, if you have a teaching video, making sure it includes captions and ideally a transcript. Another example, which I find in a lot of my audits that I think is really challenging in public health, is if you have visuals, making sure you also have a text-based description of those visuals. So, public health, I mean, we love a good infographic, right? And a chart and a graph and all the things. Um, and a lot of times they're quite complex as well. Well, if somebody can't look at that and see it and understand it, that student has completely lost the opportunity to have that information. So creating a text-based, so like even just a word document, you know, text description for image seven, um, and including, you know, however complex it needs to be, maybe there's a paragraph that really describes what's in that visual, what's the point of that visual, right? What's the takeaway of that visual? Um, I think even if you just do that one thing of making sure that there's more than one way to consume that information and then engage with it, I think that is a really high impact difference.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. No, I think that's incredibly important, right? More than one way to learn. And I'm thinking of, you know, I don't know your son, but I'm thinking of him now, thinking of the things that you were learning and witnessing with him, that there's more than one way for people to learn. And we can think about all of that ourselves, right? That some of us are maybe more auditory, more visual, more kinesthetic. And there are just ways that we probably, whether it's a personal preference or a processing thing, you know, right? That having multiple different ways to absorb information uh and to understand things, I think is so important. And so from that accessibility standpoint, uh, how how important that is for a variety of different learners across the field, right? And and I think that's important that you called out, we do love infographics and public health, right? And they can be really great. But if you're um visually impaired or something and you're not able to see that, how are you going to be able to obtain that information? And so just always thinking about am I making this accessible, like you said, right from the start, I think is really important. So going along with thinking about accessibility, integrating it into your courses, into your teaching practices from the beginning. How do you think academic public health professionals and programs can better prepare future public health professionals to think about accessibility to work within their own communities? So now thinking about the future workforce, because I I know, of course, you work with a lot of uh workforce development.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, you know, it's always great with this type of question to I don't know that we have like really understand the benchmark yet of like where we are in terms of, you know, our like which schools of public health are teaching about accessibility, what kinds of courses are they in? I would love to do that kind of research. It's like on my dream list. Um, but I will say, in terms of getting some of that baseline information, um, I went to a really fantastic webinar last year hosted by the National Association of County Health Officials, and they were talking about a project that they completed talking about embedding disability inclusion in public health and strategies to strengthen systems and workforce capacity. And so they shared their desk review and other research they did. And so two of the things that they saw were in education, there was no clear guidance on how to integrate disability competencies into public health education. Um, they also saw a training gap in that public health lacks standardized disability education and training, and that led to inconsistent knowledge and practices across local health departments, which is what they were looking at. Um, so I think big picture, um, if, you know, for people that are deans, they do research, you know, all is to do some assessment of the curriculum. Like, is this in here? Are we talking about disability and accessibility? Um, you know, if you look at public health core competencies, accessibility is related to every single one of them, right? You can't have good communication without accessibility, can't do assessment. Um, so I think big picture, I would love, you know, collaboration with, you know, national associations and organizations that look at this to figure out how to integrate that um in a strategic and consistent way. Um I think in a in a small picture way for the moment, when we can't quite do that yet, um, you know, I would ask, you know, administrators, faculty members, model this for your students. You know, when you are teaching, I think that's the best way to show them so that they go into the workforce. Then they see, wow, like when my professor gives a presentation, they send the slides ahead of time, they turn on the auto captions on their PowerPoint, they also send out a supplemental image description that is text-based. You know, there's different ways for us to engage with the information. We can provide, you know, verbal contributions, we can provide written contributions, we can send in a video with our thoughts. Um, so I think if faculty and staff can model accessibility as they teach, um, I think that goes a long way until we can have, you know, our ideal, which is to have, you know, this integrated into our MPH and our DRPH programs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, it goes back to something you said right in the beginning, which is practicing what you preach, right? If faculty and staff and deans and practitioners are doing that, then the next generation of students and K through 12 and whoever it may be, right, is hopefully going to learn by practice that this is something that should be integrated right from the beginning and that, you know, this is how we should be doing these things to make it more accessible and equitable for everyone, not just, you know, those who have access to whatever those accessibility or equity services may be, right? Um, so I I think that's a really great uh way to model that. I love that.
SPEAKER_01But I think what I see a lot when we talk about is it about accessibility is that like people are thinking about, you know, making it accessible, you know, for the learning community, for the you know, people out in the community. But we also need to be accessible for our own workforce. There are people who are disabled within our own workforce, and they may be, you know, excluded or feel unwelcome if we create learning experiences that are not accessible and inclusive. You know, I went to a conference recently where there was not, there were no ASL interpreters, there were no captions, there were most of the time they didn't use microphones. Um, and I sat there and I thought, I would leave. Like if I had a disability that affected how I was consuming this information, I would leave. There was it, it didn't, it didn't give me welcoming vibes, you know? And so I think we have to think about not just what it means for our work in the communities, but also like the message that we send to our workforce with the way that we teach and learn and host conferences.
SPEAKER_02Right. Well, and it's to your earlier point, too, that even some of the organizations or folks that you may work with, where the assumption can sometimes be, well, this is a healthy work environment. Nobody here has a disability. Well, there's a lot of hidden disabilities too, that you know, you can't, you don't always know what each individual is going through. So understanding that is this accessible for anyone with a variety of different uh disabilities, um, you know, that we want to make sure we're making things accessible for everyone, regardless of what that disability may look like. Um I want to talk a little bit about the future of accessibility, in your opinion, especially with, you know, the evolving technologies and things like artificial intelligence that of course are very prominent right now with online learning and in course instructional design, with things like AI and different digital technologies as they continue to evolve. What opportunities do you see for advancing accessibility in public health education?
SPEAKER_01So I think things like AI offer, you know, tremendous opportunity. Um, before we started recording, we were talking about transcripts. And, you know, that's something, you know, having worked on qualitative projects, I know how much it used to cost to send something out and pay for it to be transcribed. For example, the time and the money. You know, now we have, you know, AI-powered um abilities to make transcripts in minutes, right? And captions. And so, you know, I think AI has tremendous potential to support faculty, instructional designers, you know, to help with some of these um accessibility features, um, you know, creating personalized learning experiences, you know, like having AI be able to help interpret, you know, does the difficulty, you know, need to go up or down in in any, you know, in something more personal in a module or something like that? Um, I will say that, you know, I think as all things with AI, there does need to be some caution around using it regarding accessibility, you know, because obviously we are, it's learning from us, right? We have fed the information to teach AI. Um, and there is um inherent, you know, stigma oppression related to the disability community. And so I think we need to be careful in sort of taking the things that AI will generate and you know, working together with the disability community and people who have lived experiences to confirm, you know, this is what was generated, looking at, you know, the language it generated, looking at the images that it generated, and making sure that we are not promoting some, you know, stigma or oppression that existed and sort of pushing it out because that's what AI generated. Um, I think this is a great place to collaborate with, co-create with, and compensate people in the disability community to help with these initiatives. Um, and so I think so I think there are great opportunities there, but always that caution of, you know, how is ableism sort of integrated into what AI knows and how can we not perpetuate that unintentionally?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I appreciate you calling that out because I was actually just at a conference uh recently and somebody mentioned, you know, with every innovation, there always comes all of these great things, right? These new inventions and new excitement and all of that, but we also have to think about who's going to be left behind. And I think you just, you know, perfectly acknowledge that, right? That with these things that are coming out, who is either going to be left behind or who could continue to be oppressed with certain things like AI or these different emerging technologies? That what is the stigma? What is the bias that is inherent in some of these things? And and then moving forward, how do we um get ahead of some of those things? Make sure not only are these things accessible and equitable to access, but also that we're working with the appropriate communities in the disability community to make sure that these things are doing what they're supposed to be doing and not doing further harm in the disability community. So I appreciate you acknowledging that because I think there's a lot of excitement, but like you said, a lot of caution in place as well. Absolutely. So, Leah, this has been such a phenomenal conversation. Before we begin to wrap up here, I do want to ask you what gives you hope about the future of accessibility and inclusive design given all of the work that you've done thus far and where you see the future of the field going.
SPEAKER_01This is a great question to end on. You know, I think what's giving me hope is that we are talking about it, right? We're talking about it on this podcast. I've talked about it on other podcasts. When I started my career 20 years ago, we were not talking about it. Um, and even when I first started hearing about it, it was not my job, right? It was the job of IT or web. Um, and so I think that we are the fact that we're talking about it, that more of us are taking responsibility for it, um, is what gives me hope. I also um I think would be remiss if I didn't mention, especially given your audience, that the upcoming changes to the Americans with Disability Act, Title II, so this is the rule that talks about digital accessibility. Um, and and I'm hoping that that change, so those compliance deadlines are coming in 2027 and 2028. They are relevant to public colleges and universities. So I think a lot of your listeners are probably thinking about them. And I think, you know, like like we talked about, even though we want, you know, accessibility is a human rights issue, we need to think about it beyond compliance. But I hope that the compliance part of things may help us jumpstart, you know, having it be a team approach, having colleges, universities, and other organizations, you know, dedicate staff resources, you know, to create a sustainable approach to accessibility. So I think even though that is that's a compliance thing to start, I really hope that it will be, it will push us into wow, you know, we need to take an approach to this that's comprehensive and we need to think about this in an ongoing way. Um, and we're gonna all take responsibility for it. So I think that the conversations I'm hearing, even though they've been initiated by the ADA rule, um, I definitely have hope that it's, you know, opening our eyes to it, it's putting it on the radar for people that weren't thinking about it before.
SPEAKER_02Right. And even with that compliance, like you said, it shouldn't just be a compliance marker, if you will, but with that compliance comes responsibility, accountability. So it it and then with that, it becomes more of a practice that is just enabled in our in our everyday uh doings of teaching and learning and and workforce development and all of those things, right? And so, like you said, if that is sort of that start um for maybe some of these institutions or organizations, you know, that is that is a great, you know, first step, if you will, uh to kind of set the stage for that later on modeling and truly integrating it into practice, not later on, but right from the start. So, Leah, thank you so, so much for joining me today and for sharing your expertise, your insights, all on accessibility, instructional design, and of course equity in public health education because they all tie in together. Yes. And thank you to all of our listeners for joining us for this episode of the Idea Exchange Podcast. If you are interested in sharing your work or participating in a future episode, we invite you to stay connected with the Idea Institute as well as ASPPH. Thank you for helping us turn ideas into action in academic public health.