Episode 06: Leadership AND...Brianna Donovan

Leadership at Home: Marriage, Parenting, Grief, and the People Who Shape Us (with Brianna Donovan)

Leadership isn't just for the workplace.

Some of the most important leadership happens around the dinner table, in difficult conversations, during seasons of grief, and in the quiet moments that no one else ever sees.

In Part 2 of their conversation with Brianna Donovan, Josh Donovan and Patrick Ibarra explore the deeply personal side of leadership. Together, they discuss navigating different parenting styles, protecting family culture in a digital world, processing loss, making life-changing decisions as a couple, and why the people closest to us often become our greatest leadership coaches.

From raising daughters with intentionality to pursuing a 70-year marriage, this conversation is filled with practical wisdom, honest stories, and reminders that leadership begins at home.

Whether you're a spouse, parent, leader, or simply someone trying to become a better human, this episode will encourage you to think differently about the relationships that matter most.

In This Episode:
* Why healthy marriages require grace, forgiveness, and shared leadership
* Navigating different parenting styles without becoming divided
* How involving children in creating accountability builds ownership
* The importance of repairing relationships by apologizing to your kids
* Why Josh and Brianna intentionally delayed smartphones and social media for their daughters
* How technology can quietly replace the human connection we're all longing for
* Processing grief by remembering someone's whole story, not just their final chapter
* The pivotal conversation that led Josh to pursue Lighthouse instead of moving to Hawaii
* Why spouses should be "powerful equals" who speak truth with courage and humility
* The daily habits inspired by Josh's BHAG (Big Hairy Audacious Goal) of celebrating 70 years of marriage

Resources Mentioned:
- The Let Them Theory - Mel Robbins https://www.melrobbins.com/book/the-let-them-theory/  
- What Happened To You  https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8884434/ 
- Feeding The Mouth That Bites You - Kenneth Wilgus https://www.feedingthemouth.com/ 
- The Social Dilemma https://thesocialdilemma.com/ 
- The Anxious Generation - Jonathan Haidt  https://www.anxiousgeneration.com/book 

Timestamps:

00:00 — Picking up the conversation with Brianna Donovan
04:30 — Parenting as a team: hard on the process, soft on the people
17:45 — Creating accountability with your kids instead of for them
29:00 — Grief, Mother's Day, and remembering someone's whole story
34:15 — The conversation that changed Josh's career forever
44:00 — Marriage as a partnership of "powerful equals"
55:00 — Different parenting styles and finding common ground
1:18:30 — Why the Donovan family delayed phones and social media
1:32:00 — Giving birth without announcing labor, and why they'd do it again
1:46:30 — Repairing relationships by apologizing to your children
2:09:45 — Technology, presence, and reclaiming human connection
2:21:00 — Celebrating 21 years of marriage and pursuing a 70-year vision
2:35:30 — Building habits that support your biggest goals

About Lighthouse Institute

Lighthouse Institute exists to shine light that ignites connection, inspires hope, and transforms generations.

Through leadership development, coaching, facilitation, and organizational training, Lighthouse helps individuals and teams grow in self-awareness, communication, trust, ownership, and leadership effectiveness.

The Leadership, And... podcast explores leadership through the lens of real life: work, parenting, marriage, conflict, purpose, growth, and everything in between.

Follow along for more conversations about leadership, parenting, relationships, conflict, growth, and the human side of leadership.

Let's Go Shine Bright ✨

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:01

Most importantly, leadership is relational and it's human.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

And then we'll hear, yeah, but. Because we're kind of obsessed with that word, but right.

SPEAKER_05 0:14

I hear you, but I love you, but I'm sorry, but thank you, but you're doing good, but I just deleted everything that was just said.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

So we really need the word and I hear you and I love you and I'm sorry and thank you and you're doing good.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

I'm Josh Dunman with Lighthouse Institute, and I'm Patrick Ubarra with Lighthouse Media. And we're excited to dive into leadership through real conversations. It's all on the table.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Work, parenting, marriage, conflict, friendship, personal growth. Because wherever you go, there you are. Leading yourself and leading others. So really, this is leadership and everything else.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

All right. Welcome back. We have a very special guest again, Brianna, my wife. Hello.

SPEAKER_03 1:23

Hi.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

We are good.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

Thanks for having me back.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Thanks for having you back. Yeah, we had you here just two weeks ago. And what happened was we came up against your hard stop. It was the first time that Patrick and I were like, oh my gosh, we lost total track of time. You're signaling us, you got to go pick up the kids from school. And we're like, we want more. So we just decided let's get her back in here and we'll keep it going.

SPEAKER_05 1:47

And that's so weird. Having to go pick up kids from school, I bet you nobody in our audience knows anything about that. Not nobody, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:55

Who does that?

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Right. We talked a lot last time about personality, the Myers Briggs type indicator. We spent a lot of time unpacking that tool and kind of getting into the details of Myers Briggs. And as fun as that was, we just didn't get a ton of time to talk about you and the way that those personality differences show up in our relationship and our day-to-day and parenting and all those things. So uh we're really hoping that today we get to dig a little bit deeper into Brianna the human. I know you're so excited about that. Um, and we're recording on Monday, uh May 11th. And yesterday was a pretty special day.

SPEAKER_06 2:36

It was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

What was yesterday?

SPEAKER_06 2:38

Mother's Day. It was Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Happy Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_06 2:41

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

That definitely felt special.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Tell us. Tell us about Mother's Day, kind of the the experience of that, the evolution of it from a being a mom of young kids to kind of what you were experiencing yesterday.

SPEAKER_06 2:53

Oh yeah. Um, you know, when the kids are younger, Mother's Day is like, okay, babe, you handle every chore today, you do all the things for the kids. I just need a breather. Um, and as they get older, there's an evolution where the kids don't need you as much on like the day-to-day and the little tedious things. Uh, you can enjoy them a little bit more. That is if they seem into it. And we had a couple daughters yesterday that just seemed a little too cool where they we were out uh listening to some live music, and there's one practically sleeping and the other just sitting around, and you know, it just felt different. But I definitely I felt loved. You sent me for a massage in the morning, it was amazing. And then uh they all made me uh homemade cards, which were beautiful, and then uh at some point you pulled together a video, uh 10-minute video where he interviewed the girls and asked them questions about me and our relationship, and then they did the same to dad, and uh that was my Mother's Day gift, was getting to watch and listen to that. It was incredible. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Oh, you're welcome. I would love to take credit, but I do have to give credit to Instagram. Uh I just, yeah, as I was, you know, doom scrolling, even though I don't really like to do that very often. I find myself in there every once in a while. And it was this suggested post that said, Hey, don't get her another bouquet of flowers for Mother's Day. She doesn't care. This is what she wants. And it was interview prompts based on the ages of kids. There were different brackets. I said, record your kids answering these questions for your wife, and then there, and then have one of them record you. And so I just took screenshots of the questions. I put them on some note cards, I grabbed the girls, and I just I recorded them answering the questions, and then they recorded me. And honestly, I threw it right into iMovie on my phone and just put it together. It was a little 10-minute video, but the post itself said this will be something she can keep forever. This will be something she'll go back to and and listen and value. And so it just it felt easy and it felt like it was gonna have some pretty big impact. And the girls were super into it, so it was a it was a fun little project.

SPEAKER_06 5:23

Yeah, super special.

SPEAKER_05 5:25

Oh cool. Like, I feel like nowadays we don't do a lot of those like tugging into the heart, you know, memory things. And so that's so special. Like for you to have that to look back like for years and years and years. Like, I don't know, that could be a cool tradition too, you know.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, I thought about that also. Like something that you could repeat, maybe not like an annual thing, but every few years to you know, have this yeah, just where they're at, this point in time to go back to. It's funny. I uh Chris Fela is a big fan of birthday videos. So, like when it's your birthday, he'll record a video front facing, you know, just give you your message that way. And the first time I got one from him, I was like a weepy mess. I'm like, oh my gosh, this was really, really meaningful. And so I started doing that with quite a you know, some close people in my life and hearing the same thing, like, man, this is this is different. This is a little bit of a game changer, you know, up level into the video. It's fun, it's fun to do.

SPEAKER_06 6:26

Totally. Definitely felt valued for sure.

SPEAKER_05 6:28

Yeah, meaningful. Now, there's a little bit of a paradox there because you felt valued at the same time. Two of your girls were not as engaging, maybe, which I mean, I feel like as parents, right? Like we know that those seasons come and they're just seasons, I think. Um, but still, it's gonna be hard as a mama.

SPEAKER_06 6:49

Like, yeah. Um, I'm not needed as much in the same ways that I used to be. And and that's paradox, that's good and kind of sad at times. Um, but you know what? I know that they love me and and they can they come to me when they need me. And yesterday we everyone was just relaxing and enjoying the sunshine and uh beautiful day.

SPEAKER_02 7:13

Brianna also recently read a book, and I'm wondering if one of the ideas in this book might be at play. For sure. I haven't read the book, I'm familiar with the title.

SPEAKER_06 7:22

Yeah, The Let Them Theory by Mel Robbins. Yeah. Um, the premise there is, you know, allow people to be who they are. You know, you don't have to take everything so personally. And so after reading that book, uh trying to incorporate some of those thoughts into my into my life. And, you know, there's times where maybe we're at a softball game and the other team is chanting like very negatively towards my daughter who's pitching. And I feel myself like ready to freak out on them. Like, how could you be leading in this way? This isn't leading. And and the coaches, how are you letting your your kids chant like this at my kid? And I want to get angry. And then I've got Josh over here who hasn't read the book yet, but he's like, he knew that I had just read it. And he's like, babe, just let them. And then as soon as he reminds me of that, my body instantly relaxes. And it's like, yeah, I don't have to control everything. I can allow people to be who they are, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_05 8:23

And what's the name of the book again?

SPEAKER_06 8:25

The let them theory.

SPEAKER_05 8:27

The let them theory.

SPEAKER_06 8:29

Highly recommend.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

And I'd say it got it's gained quite a bit of popularity there. You I can't remember where we were. We were on a vacation and that green cover was just everywhere. Remember it's a bright green, yeah, uh, hardcover. But I've seen you, I've seen Brianna applying that let them idea inside our family with the girls, like having having fewer expectations, letting them kind of do the things that they want to do. And it's interesting because we have traditionally been like, uh, we're a family of five. Let's we're gonna do all the things together. And sometimes when you're doing that, you are forcing people to compromise or flat out do something they don't want to do. And so it was really a part of that family why session that we've already talked about. Um, our family did at the end of 2025. And we the Phalas introduced us to the idea of saying like true togetherness is kind of our actionable core value statement, and gave us the idea of a spider web that a a spider can sometimes be working on the entire web all together, or it might just be working on like one little section of the web and really strengthening it. But in doing that, it's still reinforcing the whole web. And so, similar idea for our families. Yeah, there's gonna be times where we get the five of us together and we're doing that thing, and it's it's the whole unit kind of coming together. And there's gonna be other times where there's pockets of three or pockets of two or pockets of four, and and someone might get left out. And that doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, right? It can we can just focus in on the fact that we're we're strengthening in this area.

SPEAKER_06 10:06

Well, and with the fact that we have two teenagers now, I mean, I think a lot of people that have teenagers can relate. Your kids change, they've got hormones and they've got friends and a lot going on mentally and in their brain, all these changes, and um they're not the the same little kids anymore. They're growing up and developing their own personalities, and it's an incredible thing to watch and to be a part of. And I'm extremely grateful that I get to be their mom during this time. And uh I hope that they look back and and and appreciate how we parented them.

SPEAKER_05 10:45

Yeah, that's the hope.

SPEAKER_06 10:47

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

I I had a realization um maybe in the past few weeks about, you know, I have a set of twins or teenagers also, and then I also have a set of younger kiddos, seven and eight. Um, and it's like again, the paradox again is so and the contrast so interesting that the little ones, they're always like, Daddy, daddy, look at this, and let me show you this, and look at this, and look how I flip and look at the thing that I just colored and check this out and all these things. And so um, if you're you know, if you're in that stage right now with your kids, you're like, oh my goodness, like they just want me to see everything, and it can be overwhelming, right? To like just be like constantly your name being called out for things that to you, you might be like, Oh my goodness, like do I need to really look at all the things? But we do, right? And then having the teenagers that like sometimes it's like radio silence for like days, and you're like, oh my god, I don't even know what happened yesterday with them, you know. Like, I don't know what's going on in their world. And so to hear almost like zero is just very to me, it's challenging because I'm like, man, I used it was used to be the same with the teens, right? Like it used to be like daddy, look at all the things, and now it's just like, hey, how's your week going? What'd you been up to? And so um, I got the fortune to talk to two sets of different twins this weekend. Uh, they're older, and they were saying that at 17, at the same age that my kids are, they also grew apart from each other and they ended up reconnecting. And he's like, it's kind of like magnets, like we went apart and then we just reconnected even harder. I'm playing with two magnets. Yeah, just like that. That's crazy. I just didn't even think about that. So, anyway, so it gives me a lot of hope that you know, like just the things that are the different seasons and stages that we go with our kids, and so just to hang on to the things that are going on right now because next season you might miss what's happening this season. So for sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Well, speaking of miss, what you're saying lands with me deeply right now because I had I had a pretty big miss over the weekend. Uh, I was gone all week, Monday through Friday. I was in Virginia facilitating, and so Saturday um we were kind of just out on a on a family walk, and Brindley, our middle, was starting to say something to me. And and again, she is our, you know, of our three children, the one who prefers introversions, so it's a little harder for her to kind of claim her space, you know, and and here she was, she was starting to say something. And as she's kind of getting into it, Brianna's also walking up, and I've missed my wife for the the week. And so I grabbed Brie and I put my arm around her and I went to give her a kiss. And in doing that, I I I was I ignored Brynn. Like she was, she was, and I just saw her shrink and I saw her move away, and I saw her start walk and I I felt it. I was like, oh my gosh. That and so I had to kind of chase her down, and she I give her a ton of credit, she verbalized that like that had negative impact for her, like you weren't even giving me your attention, and it I caught it and was able to own it and apologize and name to her. I'm very aware that you are in a transition right now where I'm not gonna get a lot of at bats. And so if you come to me and you say something and I show up like that, you're gonna quickly just write that story that it's not worth it to communicate with me. And I do not want that. So can I please have another chance? Like I'll hey, the rest of the family, go away. I'm walking with Brent for a little bit, right? Like it, so it it it ended okay, but I I what you're talking about, that window and that season of maybe growing apart and some of that, you know, communication starting to dwindle. I feel like I have a really active role in how quick that does or does not dwindle, right? Um I just really wanna wanna keep our kids talking.

SPEAKER_06 14:38

I know. Yeah, same. And you know, you're you you do a lot of talking and listening, and you are a very safe space for them, which I totally admire. And we have a couple of our girls who just love that about dad. Like he offers so much wisdom and advice, and they journal and they take notes, and it's it's pretty incredible.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

If I'm being honest, sometimes I wish you were my dad. It's so true.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

Um I don't think my kids would tell you that you should wish that.

SPEAKER_05 15:16

Maybe it would be your favorite. I don't know. Um, you would definitely be high to um bringing it back a little bit, how cool though that you were able to recognize that and act on it because I feel like a lot of parents might recognize it, and the more that they just like not not they don't act on it, it just becomes a numbing like process, right?

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Of like well, I think that's super interesting. We ended last time that the three of us were chatting about we talked about the secret to marriage, right? Or the secret to a long-standing relationship. And you know, Bri Brie, you said a lot of forgiveness, a lot of grace. We kind of use that to make the connection to compromise. Um, I think it is super important for our kids to see and hear us apologizing. I think like us modeling the ability to own negative impact for them and for people around them is huge. And and sometimes uh I'll hear from a lot of people that like they don't like to fight in front of kids. And then so then they also like they hand they try to handle it all behind closed doors, but they're really smart. They pick up on stuff, they do, and so like a lot of times they'll know when there's tension and or they'll know when some or they'll hear the start of a disagreement or an argument. And sure, maybe there's some value in us having that conversation, yeah, discernment on what they should or shouldn't be hearing and digesting, but we think there's a ton of value in them seeing us navigate that challenging situation and get to a place where it's like, hey, yeah, I didn't handle that well, and I'm willing to apologize here. And and I know that that exchange had ripples for you and creates a wake for all of you. So I'm gonna own that also, you know. Again, I love Dr. Becky Kennedy. I sent you a post from her this morning.

SPEAKER_06 17:09

Um Mother's Day Hangover.

SPEAKER_02 17:11

Mother's Day Hangover post. But she says, you know, a great line you can use with your kids when when you've missed is just like you, I am still learning to navigate and control my emotions. Right? Like I'm I'm 42 years old and I'm still learning to do that. And I have a fully developed prefrontal cortex, and my nervous system's not constantly deceiving me like yours is as a teenager. So yeah, those are just some things that I think come up, come up for us often in wanting and sure, getting the awareness, right? I could point back to George Mumford's tool. It has to start with awareness. Then I've got to move through acceptance in that moment, real quick, which is like, ah, I here I am again, messed up. Don't need, you know, Jelly Roll says guilt's not gonna help you grow and shame's not gonna help you shift. So it's let me change what I can accept and move it to action, right? What's the compassionate action I can take here? I need to go apologize to my kid. And I need to say that's not how I want to show up. Brene Brown calls it, ask for, tell them you want to, it's an empathetic miss and you want a do-over. Yeah, kids love do-overs. Yes, they do. I love do-overs. So if you could just say, can I have a do-over, please? Try telling me that thing again because I'm super interested. All right, your hot mom distracted me.

unknown 18:29

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_06 18:30

And I've been out of town for a week.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

Um, I want to bring us back to paradox. You both like kicked us off with paradox. You were real quick, you know, on the paradox of Brianna's experience in yesterday's Mother's Day. Um, but high level paradox is really the idea that leads us to naming this podcast leadership and right that I I've talked with both of you a lot. I think most things in the world and in our life are paradox. It's yes, and you know, two things that are both true that seem to be in opposition to each other. Uh come back to the idea of Mother's Day and why Mother's Day is also a very big paradox uh for me personally, but also for you, Brie. But to get there, um, and you know, a little bit, a little preview that some people will know and understand. Like it's a paradox based on my relationship with my mom and Brianna's relationship with my mom and how that evolved over time. So Mother's Day becomes this paradox of joy and sorrow. Getting to that point, curious to hear a bit about like your relationship with my mom, and also this will dip into some of your professional background and things you've done uh leading up to Lighthouse. So you want to take that and run with it a little bit?

SPEAKER_06 19:52

Sure. Feel free to interrupt anytime. Um so I I went to college and uh your mom goes to college. Yeah, she does.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

Sorry.

SPEAKER_06 20:04

I uh studied liberal arts. I always wanted to be a teacher. Um and yeah, that was that was what what my plan was, but not everything always goes as planned, right? So I was going to college as we were getting married, and during that time, really connected with your mom, who um is a professional speaker and an author. And and she approached me a few months before I graduated and she said, Hey, when you graduate, I have an opportunity for you. I would love for you to run my business, you know, outside, of course, of the speaking and the writing books. I need somebody who's, you know, gonna communicate with clients, who's gonna get events for me booked on the schedule, travel, everything scheduled for me so that I have time to focus on, you know, my skills and talents. And so shortly after I graduated college, I jumped uh full-time into that job, which was um something I could do from home, which she knew would be uh ultimately what I wanted, because she knew that I wanted to be a mom first and foremost. And so if I'd been a teacher, I would have had to take time off of work. So she was giving me this opportunity to, you know, eventually be a stay-at-home mom. And so I started working for her and it was an incredible job, you know, one of my favorite jobs ever. Um I got to grow close to your mom and get to know her uh beyond just a mother in law. She actually became one of my closest friends and and confidants. Is that is that the word? Yeah. Somebody I would confide in. And yeah, our relationship grew really close.

SPEAKER_02 21:56

And so I I've said this before on a previous episode that my My mom was in this space. She got her doctorate in organizational leadership. Um, I do joke with people. She was kind of in this space before it was cool. Yeah. Right. But she was very into leadership development. One of her books was actually around personality. Yeah. Um like how to deal with annoying people. I think I was, I think I was on the cover actually. Like she like used me as one of the photos. Um so yeah, she was doing a lot of keynote speaking. Um, she was also, she had a niche within like the fire service uh industry and helping people that were working for fire departments promote. So she would kind of like an executive coaching type track, um, helping them get ready for promotions, did write leadership development, leadership development books, quite a few books. Back then the product was more like uh DVDs and CDs that that would get sold. And so I know you were also responsible for taking those orders in, packaging them up, shipping them out. You were uh you were doing all things administrative, right? Yeah. Inquiry calls, scheduling travel. She used my mom used to joke with me that that she worked for Brianna.

SPEAKER_06 23:11

Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. She would say that. Yeah. I mean, I would design her websites, I would design flyers, I was doing mailings and yeah, lots of stuff for her. And I got to travel with her from time to time. Went to New Orleans and Canada and Seattle and throughout California. Those were some fun times.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

Wow. So there's like an interesting buildup here. Um when in the leadership series when we talk about telling origin stories and people, you know, leaning into the idea of vulnerability to fuel connection and um just share about the the spots in their life that have brought them to where they are today. Um, we will sometimes talk about Oprah Winfrey's book that she wrote with Dr. Bruce Perry. Um, the book is called What Happened to You. Um, and and I'll say it in rooms that typically, or not typically, but a lot of times when we're just dealing with other humans and someone's you know behaving a certain way, and you look at them and you're like, What's wrong with you? Yeah. Like, what is wrong with you? Or there's a the the office line, Michael Scott's like, why are you the way that you are?

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:20

Right?

SPEAKER_06 24:21

Like, hey, there's a reason.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

There is a reason. And and Oprah and Dr. Perry say we really need to shift that question from what's wrong with you to what happened to you. I say that here because a lot of what we're talking about right now is going to be what happened to to me and you. Um, and I think that that conversation started a lot earlier when you start talking about some things that happened to my mom as a human. Um, she came from a very, very dark and broken past. I mean, I'm talking like she was left in a hotel room to to die at like 18 months old, was found by housekeeping staff. So with her sisters. Yeah, with sisters.

SPEAKER_06 25:00

And a full body cast.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Bad. Lots of lots of family trauma, lots of abuse, you know, pretty much every flavor there. It it just was it was a very dark and challenging history that my mom had. She was pregnant at 19, right? I uh yeah, my my birthday is also paradoxical at this point in my life. Uh all that, all that to say, um, I lost my mom at the end of 2012 to suicide. And it was a largely traumatic event for for me, for Brianna, for our family, um, very disruptive. And while, you know, I'm looking to grieve the loss of my mom. Um it seems very trivial when you put it up against everything else. And it was it is very real. Brianna also became unemployed, right? Like, so it's not just losing a best friend, a confidant, a mom, uh, a very important uh person in our life, but now she also doesn't have a job. Um, you want to process any of that or anything that comes up there for you?

SPEAKER_06 26:08

Well, let's also mention that we had a two-year-old at home and I was seven months pregnant. And we had temporarily moved out of our hometown to another town.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

We were in Bakersfield. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:21

And so, yeah, there was, you know, at the end of the day, the biggest loss was losing, losing his mom. The job, and yeah, at the time, you know, you're losing finances and losing a job that I love, but I loved it because of her. Um, so yeah, she was definitely the biggest loss there. That was an extremely difficult time. I remember, you know, being eight, eight and a half months pregnant and like having panic attacks and, you know, just dealing with with that loss, and then watching Josh and his sister grieve the loss. I don't think there's ever been a darker time.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

It was really heavy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:02

I can still remember a little two-year-old face looking at me when I took the phone call for sure. Right. And I I see it clear as day. Like, Daddy, everything okay? And I was like, uh no, like not, you know. Um, so you talk about paradox. And so you get to like I last year, 2025, was the first time I ever like publicly posted anything about, you know, the how I feel on Mother's Day. And it was on LinkedIn. I hadn't yet kind of re-engaged with the more social, more social. I feel like LinkedIn's like more professional social media. Um, and so I re you know, reshared it uh yesterday on Facebook, and really just with the idea that look for the longest time, Mother's Day was just straight up hard. Like I I didn't show up well for a handful of years. And I know that Brianna was walking the tightrope of tension, and how can she even feel honored as a mom when I'm I'm a mess in this? Uh, and this feels heavy even right now. Like, I just want to name that. Like talking about it feels heavy, and I've got a lot of feels and thoughts and things coming up inside of me. Like, what are you doing? Why are we here? Right. Um, it and I think it's really important because one of the things I was able to communicate to Brianna over this last weekend and and coming into Mother's Day this year is um that you've healed a lot of those things in me. And so while it it used to feel very paradoxical, because it was like, gosh, how do I get away from this sorrow, this hurt, and this pain and and come to this side of joy, uh, I don't feel that as much. And it is still paradoxical, but the tension feels so much less. And my ability to to lean into the joy and the happiness and the celebration of who you are as a mom and and where we are in our life is is amazing. And and I would not have gotten there without your leadership and grace and patience and and walking through that together.

SPEAKER_06 29:07

So thank you. Glad that you found some healing. I know it's it's not all me. Um, but yeah, yesterday it definitely felt different.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

Yeah, and and here's and here's the thing. I know for a fact, having shared it publicly now, that there are other people in the exact same boat. In the exact same boat. Like some that are still trying to get off of the the sorrow, pain, hurt side and find the joy, and others that are more in the still in kind of in the middle of that tension of yes and, and others who have have found the healing and are able to, you know, recognize it and and and celebrate mom for who she was and and then and still lean into some of these others. So I just I think it's a worthy uh worthy conversation as hars as hard as it is to to lean into.

SPEAKER_06 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:59

Yeah. Thank you for sharing.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_05 30:01

Yeah, that's that's rough, man. Like as somebody that has gone through similar story like yours, um, it is so hard. It is so hard to live in that, you know, that paradox, that that stage of you still want to remember those people. And and and and I think in remembering, we tend to land in the in just the last maybe stage of their life. And so we just tend to land there. What has helped me has been to really back a little bit and say, okay, that was just the end, but there were so many chapters before that. And so when I focus on the life, the journey, the good stuff, and the bad stuff too, but like just the journey itself instead of just that last chapter, it tends to help me a little bit to be like, okay, that person was a whole book, not just that last page.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:52

And so that helps me uh tremendously deal with it. Because then I'm like, oh, we had great Mother's Days. We had this adventure and we had this and we had all these things. And then that allows me to be like, okay, we we're just all on this journey and we're just traveling in this train. And just because somebody got off of the train doesn't mean that they were never here and they were never a part of the the joy in here. And so, anyways, that's something that helps me if if there's anybody out there that is wrestling with that.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

I'm sure. I'm sure there will be. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 31:21

I I know how proud your mom would be for where you're at today, like as a dad, as a husband, as uh this guy in this business, you would make her so proud. This is this is what she wanted for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

Yeah, I get some of I I get a message like that every once in a while from some people that knew her. Yeah. I actually got one just like a month ago. It was around my birthday. I was like, Your mom would be really proud of you. And it's like, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. I think you're right. Yeah. Well, it's funny, right? Because I would say is as soon as very quickly, like when my mom passed, there were a quite a few people that were like, Are you gonna pick up your mom's work? Like your mom is in this leadership development, you know. But I was I was pretty well entrenched in in fitness, like very well entrenched. Um and and that credibility hurdle that you and I talked about, Patrick, in episode one, right? Of like me asking that core question of my mom, like, well, who do you think you are doing this? Like it, there was no way. There was no way that my, you know, my ego would have allowed me to do that. There was and really it would have been ego in a negative way, like it would have been kind of like the judge saboteur side of my brain saying, like, you have no permission to step into this space, right? And so Chris Fried has this great line, like when the student's ready, the teacher arrives. Um he's the one that taught me that. Uh, and so it's it's just all about timing. And again, even when I when I did start contemplating moving into this space, which I'm gonna pass that ball to you here in just a second, because you're a big reason as to why I did step into this space. Um, being able to do so with confidence and being able to feel like, hey, you know what? I don't have to have it all figured out. It's that whole repeat after me. I'm allowed to be a work in progress and help others grow at the same time, right? Uh, so it's just it's been a journey for sure. Uh let's talk about stepping into this space. So um give fitness was kind of coming to a close. I've I've already talked on here about that. I saw that coming and I started transitioning into business consulting and dabbling in that area, but we were contemplating something else pretty big.

SPEAKER_06 33:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 33:45

Pretty big. My uh my brother lives in Maui and he owns an electrical company and solar. And he had hired Josh for some consulting.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

So it sounds like leadership management type stuff.

SPEAKER_06 33:58

Yeah. Either you would go out to Hawaii or we'd go together, or we'd bring the whole family a couple times a year. It seemed like for a couple of years, maybe you were doing that. And he offered you a full-time job.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

And we were we were planning to take it. It was like, okay, we're gonna move to Maui. We're going, I'm gonna, you know, do this. It's gonna shift out of consultation work into kind of full-time for his electrical contracting company. And I would say it got pretty, pretty close, pretty close to to the pulling the trigger and actually making it happen. And Brianna kind of sat me down and was like, What are you doing? And I'm like, What do you mean? What am I doing? I'm I'm trying to figure it out. I'm trying to, you know, the gym's not gonna be a thing for uh in the foreseeable future, in the immediate future, it's not gonna be a thing. We need the next thing. And she really just looked into my soul and was like, You're not gonna be happy. This is the time, you're not gonna be happy. Everyone has always said you need to essentially work for yourself, that you like you need to do your thing and invest in you and not go to Maui and work 60 hours a week for my brother and not even see the beach or your family. And like, it's like, come on, what are you doing? And it was really motivating, really encouraging, but also really daunting because I didn't really have a clear path to what that meant. I didn't even, it's not like I had this side hustle I was working on. I was like, Oh, okay, I'm just gonna pour all my energy and fuel over here. It was was almost at a little bit out of nowhere in in what sh what you were saying to me. Um, but it was it was the thing that was the catalyst. It really was. It's what shoved me into going, okay. In fact, that was what I think the next day I went on a walk and I was like, Well, what am I gonna do? And I I I could probably find the page of my journal. Like, I just want to make content with Patrick, right? I wanna consult local businesses, I wanna blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then that ended up being the thing that set me up for, you know, getting introduced to Tim and Joe and making my way into Lighthouse.

SPEAKER_05 36:16

I remember that season when you were talking about Hawaii, and I, you know, selfishly, I was pretty sad. So I was like, Man, my brother. Um but I want to pull a little bit into this. Um, what I wrote in my notes was dual leadership, because I feel like you tend to, you know, spear the the leader role in your family. But how cool that, Brie, you were able to as as as Chris Faya says it, I think he says it this way. He calls uh our spouses our equal powerful, I believe. He uses the word equal for sure. The powerful I'm powerful equal. Powerful equal is that what she says here. Yeah, I think that's how he says it. Powerful equal, yeah. Powerful equal. Which I think is is beautiful because I think, especially in marriage, if if I tug a little bit into the marriage realm, um, I don't necessarily think there's always just the the the driver and the passenger seat. I think it's a little bit of like the wheels in between you two. And usually one of you is the one taking the wheel because somebody has to. Otherwise, you can be pulling it two different directions. But it's so cool to have somebody in your life that can say, hey, I don't know if we should be going that direction. We need to pull back to this because of what I know of you and because of what I've known of our family and all the needs and all the wants. We should go this way. And so, how cool that you are also able to let her take that wheel and listen to her. So 100%.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

I think it it really reminds me, maybe because I just re-listened to this uh in our second episode when we talk about leadership, management, followership and the different roles and how you spend you know different percentages of your day in each role. And so while I might spend the majority leading, Brianna also very much leads. And so you hear, and it's kind of an interesting cycle, right? Because getting into the conversation, you hear her speak. I'm gonna I'm finger quoting speaking truth to power. She's giving honest feedback and saying, What are you doing? I don't know that this is a great call. I have to have the posture of being willing to listen to her. A leader who listens and a follower who speaks up gonna make an unbeatable team. And I then have to shift around into letting her lead and hearing what she has to say and setting some new direction and strategy in that moment. She's inspiring and empowering and motivating me to go chase this new thing, right? And so, yeah, there's some dual leadership happening and us kind of moving between those roles in that in that dance of that that could that could shift twice in a 10-minute conversation, right? But the importance of of knowing I'm not gonna have all the answers, she's not gonna have all the answers, but together we're gonna together, everyone achieves more. We make a great team. Say more about that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's my favorite acronym for team. Together, everyone achieves more. So it's just a matter of how do we how do we come? And that's what we we said when we talked personality, right? Is that because we're different in a lot of areas, we do make a very phenomenal team.

SPEAKER_06 39:26

Yeah. I mean, we lots of communication. I think if if you see something, you want something, it's important to speak up. You know, it's how you get what you want, or you at least, you know, come to some kind of conclusion. You both get in what you want together.

SPEAKER_05 39:43

Real quick before we move on from this, any advice from from what I know about you, Brie? You're maybe a little more on the introvert side.

SPEAKER_03 39:52

What?

SPEAKER_05 39:53

And you know, being married to somebody that is almost the opposite in that area and more, you know, more dominant, I guess, if you will. Um, any advice on what helps you being able to speak up and you know, like is the space maybe that he's making, or what kind of things help you being able to voice what you see, what you're you know, feeling you're being called out to, you know, empower your family and to just stand up for maybe your feelings, your thoughts, all of that.

SPEAKER_06 40:22

Yeah. Well, I think it it takes a couple things. One, the willingness to have the conversation, step out of my comfort zone. Um I think tone and body language has so much to do with our communication. You know, if I if I want something or or see something that needs to change, but I I come to it with a negative attitude and basically you suck, or you know, he's not gonna receive that very well. So that's key, knowing how to communicate to somebody. Um, so I can manipulate them. And then the other thing is for the receiver to be open to receiving the information, um, you know, and asking each other the right questions and having conversation about it.

SPEAKER_05 41:15

Yeah, and I'm assuming there's a there's been a journey there to get to that point.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Right. Yeah. I I like if we're pointing back to lighthouse language, I think Brianna does a great job of leveraging the three Cs that we talk about in in conflict, which is courage. It's connection, curiosity, courage, right? So she started with the courage. I have to I have to lean into having that conversation. Um, she does a great job of maintaining connection, right? And then being curious in that. And so I I think your focus on on how you have that conversation, really important. That's the whole idea of 55, 38, 7, 55% of our intended message is communicated by our body language and nonverbals. Can say a lot. 38% is communicated by our tone of voice, right? 7% words. Yeah. And so, yeah, the how really important, but Brianna's also really good at the when. So she she's strategic and and thoughtful about when to have those conversations. So it's not just what she's saying, how she's saying it. There's a there's a strategic point to when you do it.

SPEAKER_03 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 42:31

That that struck a chord on me because that matters so much. If I'm hungry, if I'm tired, like all my, you know, like my weak, you know, the ways that I show up in the weakest form. If you come at me with something heavy and serious, I have a such a hard time showing up. And so now I've learned a lot of different ways to try to maybe delay that conversation because I just know that I'm not gonna do a good job at showing up in that moment. So um, but yeah, maybe for those listening, listening out there, you know, like something to be aware of.

SPEAKER_06 43:00

Yeah, for sure. I mean, and knowing, you know, if he's coming home from a week-long trip in Virginia and he's walking through the front door, that's not the time I'm gonna approach him and say, Hey, we need to talk about this serious topic.

SPEAKER_02 43:14

Well, and you said it's important that the the receiver, the listener is like is is open to having that conversation. And I would say when you said something like there's been a journey to get there.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_06 43:27

Yeah, we've had a long journey.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

You know, getting feedback early in our relationship was not awesome. At this point in in my journey and where I'm at in life, is I I just operate on the assumption that Brianna can see things that I can't see. I I operate on the assumption that she has my best interest in mind. We're on the same team. And so if if you're coming to to tell me something or let me know about something, I am working to do my best to get in an open posture, a curious posture. Posture, uh, what kind of listening do you need from me right now? Um, that I've been using that question a lot in rooms with people, and I've literally had a couple say, like, this is a life changer to just say, How would you like me to listen right now? So, and I it's usually the guys, right? And I'm like, So if she's coming at you and you're just like, like, just pause her real quick. Pause. Hey, how how do you want me to listen right now? What are you looking for from me? And if you hear just listening, shut off that solving muscle, shut off all and just just kick your feet up and start listening. Right. Um, and so that's that's another thing. It's just like, hey, like, is this thing that you're bringing me to? Like, do I need to get a pen and paper? Is this like I'm gonna have to take action here? Is this low level? Where are we? You know, so I think those are some little things that help us navigate that stuff.

SPEAKER_06 44:52

For sure. I think I have actually a harder time with receiving stuff when he's coming to me. Um, I'm I'm working through that. No, but as a uh growing up, I uh my mom and my stepdad, they've been married for, I don't know, close to 30 years now. Um, but my stepdad came into my life when I was about seven, and they got along, do get along super well. So growing up, I didn't hear arguing between the two of them. Um, I didn't see conflict. So Josh comes around when I'm in my teens and we get married when I'm 20, and there's conflict. We're young. We're trying to figure this out. We are opposites. And I struggled for years when he would approach me and there would be some kind of conflict, or him trying to explain something, I'd immediately take offense to it, like, oh, I'm not good enough, or whatever it may be, whatever story I was writing in my head. And so I was just on the verge of breaking up with him before we got married.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Constantly.

SPEAKER_06 46:03

Constantly. Like this is not normal for you to be coming to me so often with these little things. Like, what kind of relationship deals with conflict? And now I'm learning, I have learned uh that conflict is a gift. And as hard as it may be to go through a very difficult conversation in that moment, I am learning about Josh and he is learning about me. So that when the next time that particular situation comes up again, maybe we can handle it more carefully or a little differently because we know each other better at that point because we've already gone through it.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

Wow. That's really good. Yeah. You're still learning. Conflict's a gift.

SPEAKER_06 46:51

I'm still learning. Yeah. And I'll, yeah, I don't like conflict still.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

So you're speaking to one of the, I think, hardest mindset shifts that we ask of participants, right? Because when we ask at the beginning, like, tell us about conflict, right? There's a lot of reasons to to not want it, not like it, not enjoy it, to have a negative story about it. The exercise we do in the room is we make a tea chart. Um, and we say, hey, tell me it's a cost-benefit analysis analysis. What does what does conflict cost you? Tell me, tell me all the things that like why are we afraid of it? Why do we armor up? Why do we, you know, why do we hide from it? Like, what does conflict cost? Right. And what do you think some of the things we start hearing right out the gate are? What would you what would you put on that list of what conflict costs? Breakup. Okay, so the relationship. It can cost the relationship. What else? What other costs are there?

SPEAKER_06 47:50

Time?

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Time, disappointment, feelings, disappointment, energy, money. I was gonna say money rust, it costs you um your happiness, you know, it costs it's like it's a long one. I purposely write it in red, right? It's a long red list, and uh, uh, it's like this sounds expensive, team. No wonder, right? And then you say, okay, some of you will need this word. What are the potential benefits of conflict, right? Brianna would need that word. What are the potential benefits of conflict? And you'll hear some people start, oh well, you I mean, you if it goes well, well, and I don't say anything. Yeah, so all right, what are the potential benefits of conflict?

SPEAKER_06 48:32

Relationship grows closer.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

The relationship is better. Uh save energy, save time.

SPEAKER_06 48:38

Time next time.

SPEAKER_02 48:39

Maybe you save money. Maybe, and then I said, What to how is this possible? How is everything that you said was on the cost list is showing up over here on the benefits list? How what if I told you that the only difference between whether or not you get costs or benefits is directly tied to your ability to navigate conflict?

SPEAKER_06 49:00

Yeah, super important.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

They don't like that all the time though. Well, uh uh no, no, it's directly tied to your ability to navigate conflict, and a lot of them will want to be like conflict takes two people. What if you're the only I can't be and then I say lead them. And it's it's session 11 of our leadership series. It's at the very end, right? But it's like, yeah, that's your job is to lead people through this conflict. And if we can have the mindset that I know how to get these green outcomes, if we can navigate this together in an honoring way, then I can shift the initial mindset to say conflict is a gift. Because in this gift of conflict, I have an opportunity to learn more about you. I have an opportunity to achieve these green outcomes, which is a stronger relationship, increased trust, more time, more energy, more resource, right? Like, but we have to change that story in order for us to even engage in a way that's going to allow us to get those outcomes. And I'd say that's been a very long journey for us.

SPEAKER_03 50:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Um, one that we're still on and continue to be on, depending on the conflict, right? So, and we define conflict as uh a perceived a disagreement through which the parties involved perceive a threat to their needs, interests, or concerns. A disagreement through which the parties involved perceive a threat to their needs, interests, or concerns, which means it's happening all day.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:38

And what's so interesting is that it's just a perceived threat.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

It's not even a real threat yet. Right. But if I perceive that you're threatening my needs, interests, or concerns, we're in conflict. Exactly. So then how do I shift that? If I start to see that she's perceiving that threat, okay, you're gonna initially probably get some sort of fight, flight, freeze, fawn response, right? And go, hey, let's change the story. We got this, let's engage in it, let's have these conversations.

SPEAKER_06 51:07

Yeah. I mean, my natural inclination is to avoid it at all costs. If I'm you know, upset with a friend, uh, well, I'm just not gonna say anything. And I've got Josh over there, like, hey, I think you should reach out, like, be the first one. And then and then with that particular friend, whoever it is, like then that's an opportunity for them to learn about who I am. And then I can learn from them. Like, what worked, what didn't, and and your relationships end up growing closer through the conflict.

SPEAKER_02 51:43

I don't know any good relationship that I have that I haven't navigated conflict with that person.

SPEAKER_05 51:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Maybe Patrick.

SPEAKER_06 51:53

I know. That's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 51:54

Like, have you hold on to something?

SPEAKER_05 51:56

Like I think we have.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

We can that they're low level. Yeah. But yeah. Um what's coming to mind for you? Moving. Yeah, I was thinking this thing. Yeah. But we had a facilitated, mediated conversation with Chris Vince.

SPEAKER_05 52:08

I knew that was involved. And it was live, which is incredible. But yeah, I mean, and and I feel like that conflict was, to me, was not one of those that I don't know, like the perceived threat, right? I don't think you might have seen that as a threat like directly. However, I think you had the wisdom to perceive that as a longevity in our friendship threat. Like, hey, if you really want me to be in this relationship with you as a friend, these are some things that I would value if you would include me in. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

I think if we put it in the language, it would have I was perceiving a threat to my interest to be connected to like right, like my interest in wanting to be someone who's in that inner ring of of helping you do the hard thing. Correct. So yeah, I could I could see it being in that in that same framework in that language.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

So yeah, so conflict is all around us. Um yeah, unavoidable. And so I I want to avoid conflict all the time too. And so um, yeah, ever since I've taken the series, the leadership series, it's reframed my mind completely and like, okay, now I have to have these difficult conversations. And actually it's more now I get to have these difficult conversations, which is a beautiful gift to have and to give.

SPEAKER_06 53:18

So and there are healthy ways to navigate conflict. I mean, we're not over here talking about like yelling and screaming at each other. That's not great conflict.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Like, we say in an honoring way. Right. And so it's like connection, curiosity, courage are those three tools we we that's what we hang the conflict discussion on. Right. And so going back, I think when you're saying, you know, her being able to speak that truth, give me feedback, have that conversation, um, Brie just does a beautiful job of you know, leveraging those three ideas that we stay connected. She's very curious, and she leans into the to the courage of of saying what needs to be said. Uh, one of the areas, this is this is a good connection point here. Like one of the areas where I was gonna bring this up based on where we finished last time with the grace, the forgiveness, the the compromise, the third path forward, um, which this is kind of in that same idea of okay, conflict, it's the same thing. When you're, you know, have opposing interests, you've got to find that find a third path forward. I thought it'd be interesting/slash fun to talk about where we've had some differences in our parenting approaches, our parenting styles, and where we've been able to find some alignment, some common ground when Brianna didn't want to listen back to the episode we recorded a couple weeks ago. I I did before coming into this. And when we were talking about uh decision making, uh thinking, feeling, you know, what what do you do? And you said, is that a place for like hard on the process, soft on the people? And it wasn't the exact thing we were looking to talk about in that moment. Um, but I think that idea of hard on the process, soft on the people does come out in our parenting. Um, people will be shocked to learn. I'll just tell you the short version. I tend to be the hard on the process person, right? And you tend to be more of the soft on the people.

SPEAKER_03 55:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:11

Or soft on the girls. Yeah. Uh, and and we have tended to see some of those things differently. Um, I would say it's been it's been a point of contention at certain spots within our relationship. And uh so I'm I'm curious to hear how you would say we've we have navigated that previously and and what it looked like to kind of find some tools and resources.

SPEAKER_06 55:35

Yeah, well, I think my the way that I parent has a lot to do with my personality. Um not that you don't have feelings, because you do have big feelings, babe. I am a feeler. And uh in the moment, you know, a kid gets in trouble. Um not always like thinking about what they did that was wrong. I'm over here thinking, oh my gosh, they must be feeling so bad about how they just made that poor decision and they are filled with all this guilt and this shame. And as their mama bear, how can I like tell them, hey, that wasn't cool, and hey, we're good. Um, and then you've got dad who's like we can't behave this way, which is you know, more to the point and less feelings involved, and that's hard for me. That's always been harder for me. Um, to have that parenting difference. And it it's been a challenge in our marriage, uh, raising these three daughters and trying to find the right way to parent them together. Um, so we've, you know, it took a long time. We would do like little behavior charts when they were little. And then I would say probably two years ago, we finally came up with a system that the behavior chart that we could point to that's got like here's specific language here that we can all agree on.

SPEAKER_02 57:05

Because well, I was gonna say, I would say part of the reason it was unsuccessful at the beginning is because we were making behavior charts. And we were saying this is how it's going to be. This is the behavior you're gonna be in alignment with. And it was very external. It was here we go. And and a lot of it was us trying to implement hard on the process, soft on the people, right? And so it's like, look, I want you, I want you, Brie, mom, to be harder. And she's like, I want you to be softer. And it's like, oh, okay. Well, can we get a system that you can be critical of, that you can be hard on, and you can keep being soft on it, and then I can also direct my critical energy there and and be more soft with them. And when we started that, we made one for them.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 57:55

We said, let's here's the system, and it wasn't going well. And I think around the same time that when you're saying we found a successful system, I was working on a keynote for reframing accountability.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

Uh, and and putting some language and some framework to to a new idea around accountability. It was actually a it was a discipline talk before accountability. So it was the NNASC down in Coronado Island wanted me to do a talk on discipline. So the idea of external discipline versus internal discipline, right? Alignment. And then moving into this accountability talk, we we stole work's language and we and we brought it home. We're like, okay, so when we reframe accountability, we use the acronym of a car. We say drive the car. We say accountability starts with with clarity, right? At first, like clarity is the key. And when if we really want clarity around expectations, around behaviors, around norms, around those kinds of things, the best way for us to achieve that clarity is by co-creating it. Yeah. We need to co-create that. And I'm so I'm sitting here building this thing, talking about, you know, or you need to bring more voices to the table within the organization because if you just come out and tell them this is what we're gonna do and this is how we're gonna do it, you're not gonna get any buy-in. And I'm like, oh, light bulb, that's what's happening. We're telling them this is what you're gonna do and this is how you're gonna do it, and we're not getting buy-in. So we need co-created clarity, right? And we need to make sure we get to mutual understanding. I think there was so much stuff that we were just saying, you're gonna do this. And you uh an example would be like, be respectful, don't be disrespectful. Yeah. Well, we know what that means. Do they? I don't know that that all three of our daughters have a collective mutual understanding definition around what respect looks like and what disrespect looks like. So that bucket right there, we're like, okay, we need to co-create this clarity. We need to make sure we get to mutual understanding. And then the second part of the car and reframing accountability is you need to move away from assignment and more agreement. So move from assignment to agreement. Organizationally, if people have, and I'm gonna quote again, an accountability gap, there's usually one of two things happening. It's usually both, actually. You're not being clear with your expectations, you think you're being clear with your expectations, but you're not actually getting to mutual understanding. And most often there's no co-creation. You are coming in and assigning something. Hey, I got something for you to do. This is what I need you to do. This is how you're gonna do it, and this is what I need it to be done by. And then a lot of leaders will ask a version of the world's dumbest question, which is like, sound good? Does that make sense? Right? And then they go, they're doing what you two do, which is they just go, huh? Yeah. Uh-huh. And and you just got you got a very minimal amount of agreement. I might even argue you got fake agreement because you're you don't really have a sense that right. So you just assign them something, and then you come back two weeks later, and your core question is, why haven't you done what I said? Because there there was no actual agreement established. So we say move away from assignment and move into agreement. There's a really simple way to know if you're in assignment mode or agreement mode. If the things that you are saying end in periods and exclamation points, you're giving assignments. If the things you say are ending in question marks, you're creating agreement. And then the third, the the final piece of the car idea is to be regular and relational. That accountability is not uh not a performance review every six months. Accountability is not, you know, just one real hard corrective conversation. It's it's regular and it's relational. And so it's like, look, if we co-create clear expectations and we get to mutual understanding, and we've done this through the lens of agreement. We've asked lots of questions, right? Like, hey, I got something for you to do. Like, have you ever done this task before? How do you see going about doing it? And what other things do you have on your plate? What kind of bandwidth? What kind of timeline do you think we need to get this done? What's going to get in the way? Like, I'm making this up. I just asked like seven questions, right? And so all of that creates a ton of agreement. Then it's regular and relational. Regular and relational. And there's two ideas at mind in that regular and relational. You will get more of what you celebrate. So when you see the behaviors in alignment with what you talked about and what you agreed on, hey, great job. Thank you. This is exactly what we planned for. This is, you know, thank you, thank you, thank you. Get more of what you celebrate, and you will get more of what you tolerate. So the moment you allow something to be happening that's outside of that agreement that you made, you will get more of that. Or there's some I saw this sign at someone's desk at one of our organizations says you promote what you tolerate.

unknown 1:03:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Right. So whatever you are tolerating, you're promoting that. I don't know who the quotes by, but there's something about like the lowest, um, the culture of any organization can be defined by the lowest behavior it is willing to tolerate. And I just had a conversation with someone about that over the weekend about a sports program. Like you're essentially talking about your the culture of your sports program and the culture of your team, the culture of your team will be defined by the lowest behavior you are willing to tolerate. The culture of our family will be defined by the lowest behavior we're willing to tolerate. So if we start tolerating, they don't do this. If we start tolerating the girls punching each other in the face when they get upset, I know families that do tolerate that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:50

That becomes the norm.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:51

We are, we are promoting that. So in that regular and relational bucket, we want to be celebrating the things that we want more of, and we want to be addressing the things that we're not willing to tolerate. That was a big framework for this talk that I ended up giving a handful of times. Got a lot of good traction and response out of it. People tend to like it more as a workshop than a keynote, which is my preference, anyways. Um, but we implemented this at home for sure. So I cut you off. And that was a long way of saying that like we were giving them a system, and then we moved into co-creating. Let's co-create a system. So tell us about tell us about co-creating that with the girls.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:37

So I mean, we sat them down, got out the big piece of post-it paper, the white paper that you put on the wall and your markers. And we're like, okay, girls, like uh we're gonna do three categories and we're gonna come up with behaviors that that you would do where we would reward you for that behavior. And let's come up with a list of behaviors that are just like expected, you know, being kind. It's kind of just an expectation.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:07

I think that's where we started them. We said that one first. What's expected of you? Uh-huh. And then what will you get?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:12

If you go above and beyond, and then what are some behaviors that you don't think that you should be doing that would maybe get you in trouble?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Or and a consequence.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:25

Yeah. Uh-huh. So the girls just started firing out their lists and and agreeing on where those things should land.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:35

We let them pick. Yeah. And and and they did. We had it color coded, right? So it was like green for rewards, blue for expected. It was neutral. It was neutral or expected. And then um red marker for for strikes. And we have softball players in our house, right? And so um put them down here for like that strike, you know, it's a it's it's a something that you don't want to see. And what how do you think we should handle this? You know, what do you think we should do here? And uh they kind of got to the three strikes, you're out idea. So, you know, two strikes are are are kind of freebies warnings.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:13

Yeah, you're a human and you're gonna be a kid and you're gonna bully your sister around a bit. Okay. So let's talk about that behavior. Not cool. You said you told us that that would be behavior that would earn you a strike, negative. Uh so go ahead and put your strike on the chart. Okay, you oh my goodness, an hour later, you're getting into it again, you get another strike. Okay, so you've been warned twice. Now, if we're on the same day and you decide to have more negative behavior, consequence.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:48

And we ask them, what should that consequence be?

SPEAKER_06 1:06:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

Yeah. And they, I think at the time they were watching Stuck in the Middle. Yeah. Is it the show? I think so. Jenna Ortega. Yeah. It was good. Have you seen that one? It's a Hispanic family and they have a bunch of kids. Can't remember how many kids. It might be like five. I think it's more than that. Maybe. Yeah. Anyways, she's the middle kid, and their term is lockdown. Yeah. So if they get grounded, they go on lockdown. And in lockdown, you can't. I mean, uh on the show, you can't come down for meals. Like it's it's pretty Hispanic.

unknown 1:07:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:25

You tell me. But it was most, it's like no electronics, no privileges, right? Like, and so um the girls said if you get three strikes in a day, then you're on lockdown for 24 hours. Right. And we were like, that sounds good. We can we can live with that, right? Like we didn't they also came up with, I can't remember who it was, but they came up with, well, if you're getting, you know, you could get two strikes, two strikes, two strikes, two strikes, two strikes, and like that would not be very good behavior. Yeah. And Brianna and I are like, you're that would not be very good behavior. And so I they came up with if you get six strikes in a week, that that also constitutes lockdown, whether that's two here, one there, three, you know, two there. Uh, but again, co-creation and letting them come to the table and and advocate for the I mean, I don't know that they were advocating, they were answering the the questions and and putting it down. We we felt an immediate shift in our house.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:26

Yeah. Um pretty quickly things started to shift. I mean, in the beginning, there were strikes, strike, strikes. So we had two of the three girls experience lockdown within the first couple of weeks, I think. So maybe, you know, after school one day it was their third strike. So it's like, okay, head up to your room. You can open a book if you want while you're up there, or draw, and we'll let you come down for for dinner. And then um, you know, you'll go to school the next day. But they got up there and they're like, This sucks. I don't want to be away from the family. Our family like thrives on being with each other. We don't have kids that go to their room and spend time in their room, and maybe because we don't allow electronics in their room. You guys can talk about that some other time or now. I don't know. But um, there really isn't a whole lot to do in their rooms, but but they're welcome to be in their rooms, but they don't like to. So that was they didn't enjoy that. And so pretty quickly, the they were getting less strikes, behaving better, um, communicating more kindly to their sisters.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

Yeah, I think to us. I think a couple as you're talking through it, I'm trying to go to like beginner's mindset. I don't know about what do I you know know that I don't know. And so I think a couple of things that are important about it are we give we uh give them a weekly allowance.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

So that chart comes out every Monday, right? So Monday morning, Brianna prints them out, puts them downstairs in our kitchen. Um, we give them a standing allowance, and the allowance is not tied to anything on the chart. So they get $5 a week as thank you for being a part of this family. You're alive, you live here, like you're you're getting that, right? Um if they get no strikes throughout the entire week, they get a five dollar bonus. So their allowance essentially doubles if they if they get no strikes. If they get a single strike, that bonus goes away. So they're that first strike is is pretty impactful. That's a bluff. Although I don't know that we thought it all the way through because then once they get the first one, they don't care too much. I felt that in Blakely this last week. Um and then the and then the rewards. So um we I like alliterations just like uh a lot of our clients, right? So we ended up making it sticker standard strike. So that was the chart. So, you know, there's the standard. This is the standard expectation of behavior. Here's things that get stickers, and here's things that get strikes. And again, they picked these things, right? So when they display them, we're celebrating the ones that are up. Hey, thank you. You helped your sister clean her room, even though that was not, you went above and beyond. You, you know, you helped mom when it was not your responsibility. Go get a sticker, right? And the stickers are worth 50 cents a piece. That's when we started. We've we've moved Braylon, we've moved Braylon into like high school wages now. So she gets a $10 uh allowance and dollar value stickers. Um, but the the strikes still strike it out. So that gave us a system, a a no-joke process and system in our house that we could be really critical of. And the and part of the reason that they were on board for us to be hard on the process is because they created the process. I would say it was only a couple months. We actually didn't have, we don't have to say much. Like they they kind of self-regulate at this point. They they know if they've done something. I've I mean, I've heard the the younger two are a little better at it. I I'll go put a strike up for that.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:09

I I own that. That's on me, you know. I I want to tap a little bit into that because uh you also said, I briefly, that they go themselves and they put this tripon, which I think just like taking notes when you're writing something down that you know tends to stick more in your mind. I have to assume that for them to have to walk over to that chart and write down the strike in whatever form that is, even if it's just a line, yep. There's gotta be some connection there between, you know, their brain, their like, you know, even processing. I could see myself like if I got in trouble and I had to like write it down somewhere, and I have like just that physical act has got to be so powerful for them into like remembering, man, I don't want to do this again.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:49

That's a great point, Patrick.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:51

That's funny you said that because uh early on we had that convo, because there were a couple of times where she put it up for them. And it was more about making sure it was up there and being accountable to the process. And I was I told her exactly what you just said. Is I'm like, there's a ton of power in them having to go up and put it up themselves. And it puts that ownership back on them. So now it's hey, you got a strike? If it's not up there by the end of the night, it'll be a second one. Yeah. Right. So 'cause sometimes they try to avoid going and putting it on. Of course.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:24

I mean, I would 100%. Nobody wants to, you know, like go and you know, mark themselves, you know, a X or tardy or whatever. But um, even the fact that they recognize when you were saying that they're like, oh yeah, if you got two strikes every day, like that, like that in itself, the fact that they had that awareness of like, I mean, you know, basically like um stopping themselves from cheating the system and saying, like, well, I guess I could do this, you know, twice a day and I'll be okay. Like they recognize that that would not be good behavior. And the fact that they have that awareness of like that, that's something that we need to, you know, have some type of rule against that is so cool that your girls have that. And I think that's again, that's just part of the journey that you guys have been on and like trying implementing different things and then seeing what works, seeing what doesn't work. And so, man, that's awesome. I I can't wait to go home and do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:14

Well, thank you. And and I would say um we probably left the system as it was for a probably about two years, and then we we revisited it because the girls were older. Um, you know, there were some some things on there that weren't really appropriate to be on there anymore as far as um strikes. There were some things that really didn't warrant a reward anymore. Um, you know, we told them like we ultimately want to see this reward stuff make its way into the expected and and the standard. Um and our kids are getting older. And so uh I'm reading a parenting book right now that is kind of blowing my mind. It's called Feeding the Mouth That Bites You. And the idea that's at play is what he calls planned emancipation, is that we really should be planning for our kids to be fully emancipated. He he says by graduating high school, um, not turning 18, which is really uh applicable in our house because um two of our daughters turn will turn 18 in September, but not graduate high school until the following June. So we'll have them a whole school year as adults. Um, but really like that we can't be parenting adolescents the same way that we parent children. And so the intent and idea behind planned emancipation is that by the time they graduate high school, they are in control of every aspect of their life, that they have had reps at making decisions and using their own judgment, and um, that they've had us as scaffolding and support leading up to that. And I I see a lot of people do it the other way, which is just wait until the that graduation day or the day that the kid finally decides. And then it's like they're fully on their own and they don't know, they don't know a lot. Um, and so it's been really interesting to to be wrestling um with that new idea and and starting to shift some of our approaches. I would say primarily with our oldest right now, who is coming up on 16.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:27

Yeah. Yeah, you know, well, I'm just thinking back to when when we were kids, when we were teenagers, I feel like our lifestyle is different than the lifestyle that at least our kids have today. And I think a lot of their friends, I felt like at 18 when I was growing up, and when I was 18, I was ready. I a lot latchkey kid, is that what I was? Yeah. Yeah. I had uh two parents that worked and I'd roam the streets until the lights came on and go home. I'd be waking up in the morning, getting myself ready, packing my own lunch, taking care of my own breakfast, helping out with dinner, doing so many chores. And by the time I was 18, I was I knew what I needed to do. And I think part of being a stay-at-home mom, I have like so many rules, roles and responsibilities. I haven't quite got them ready yet. And Braylon has three more years of of school. And so now we're looking at it like, okay, how do we get her ready for the real world? It's coming quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:39

It is. And one of the things you said made me think of this, but the it this idea kind of brings this conversation full circle also. Uh, we have made some unconventional, uh, borderline, unpopular parenting decisions uh when it comes to certain aspects. You mentioned technology. Uh so it's it's been a hill that you and I have have been willing to die on. Maybe more me, and you've just been willing to join me on it. I'm not sure. Uh you can tell us about that in a minute. Um we made a decision early to say we weren't gonna give our kids phones. Uh we said high school cell phone, and we said no social media at all uh until 16. But then I I've thrown a little bribe in for our girls where basically I've said, look, I'll pay you $500 per school year, nine, 10, 11, 12, if you go all the way through high school with no social media. And I'll give you $2,000 cash on your graduation day as as a non-social media bonus. I'm very confident two of them are are in on that. Uh not sure about the third. And that'll that will be that'll be a challenge by choice. Like at 16, you can have the option if you want to engage with stuff like that. Kind again, kind of in that planned emancipation idea that, like, hey, if that is something you want are really interested in, I'd rather you do it now where we can have some oversight and um some guidance and scaffolding for you. Um, but the no electronics in bedrooms is has been a hard line. And that that includes iPads, that include, you know, we have a home iPad. Um, I'll let Brianna speak to we let the girls use her phone to text and communicate uh with friends because we know that that's how you know communication goes down. Um but out of the I on a previous episode, this came up, Patrick, the 2020 perfect storm of watching the social dilemma. Um then reading, then I read Jonathan Heid's book, The Anxious Generation, about how we've rewired kids from a play-based childhood to a phone-based childhood. And we Brianna and I were not willing for our kids to have phone-based childhoods. What have you seen in that, in that bucket, in that area?

SPEAKER_06 1:20:11

It's it's hard. I I want my kids to be the ones that are outside and getting dirty and still being kids. And so much of our world today is technology and wanting to be on a screen as much as possible. So we've had to implement screen times and we've had to say, no, you may not take your phone into your bedroom. And the phone is you're done by, I think we've extended it to 10 o'clock now for our oldest.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:44

Well, and you're and the only reason she has a phone now because she's in high school. Yes. So this is new. This is the first year we've been tackling.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:51

Almost a year now.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:52

But yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:52

There's been some challenges. Uh and it's hard because it doesn't feel like there are a lot of parents doing what we're doing. And so there's uh, I think a big comparison game, like, you know, so-and-so lets their kid do this, or you know, you'll see the phone, and it's like kids are texting our daughter at midnight on a school night. Like, what are you doing? Are parents not paying attention to this? So I fully believe in um having limits for screen time and and keeping it out of the bedroom. I'm I'm totally okay with that and on board.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:31

And I think one of the reasons that works for us is because we model it. So we don't take phones in our bedroom either. Uh and that's yeah. There's a lot of science and research out there, a lot of reasons to advocate for that. And a lot of times uh I hear people say that ship is sailed, like meaning that like that rope's been given and it's too hard to pull back. And I would just, if anyone's in that boat, I would challenge you and I would encourage you to to think harder about that and what it might look like for a reset there. Cause um it's super, it's super valuable. And I would say at least the kids that uh our daughter's communicating with, it doesn't seem that the parents are looking and paying attention because of the the you know, the vast amount of stuff that we've seen and found in there. And it's yeah, it's hard. I know that I know you're in the same boat, man. So tell us.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:22

Oh yeah. Yeah, with us, it was uh we we we were with the same mentality of not wanting our kids to have phones. And so uh when the teenagers, our teenagers entered high school, uh they joined band and it was the first time, like they had a flip phone. We gave them a flip phone because we're like, okay, sometimes, you know, they walk home from school and we just need to like, you know, if they need to communicate, like, hey, this happened or I need to ride or whatever. Um and at band, they asked them uh to have a smartphone. And I was so against that. I was like, wait, why do they need a smartphone for band? Like, how does this help? And it was apparently something to do with like when they're doing like the choreograph like moves and all that stuff on the field, they needed like to have like a GPS tracker thing, like went beyond my like pay grade, I guess, if you will. But I was still pushing back. I'm like, wait, how did people do it back in the day? And it was like, well, if you want your kid to be the only one with a paper and this and that, like it's just gonna be really hard for them. And so um, I was still pushing back, and unfortunately, like, you know, we co-parent. And so uh on the the other household got them a phone and I was really against it, but there was not much I can do to enforce all of the rules that we can enforce at home. And so also for people that are co-parenting, um, I think there there are challenges that I am super aware that sometimes you might have a set of rules at your house and the other house just doesn't have those rules. Um But yeah, in our house, for the longest time we were like, nope, no screens anywhere, no screens, you know, in the in the bedroom. Like uh with our younger ones now, they are not even used to iPads, phones. Like um, there is a little bit now where where, and my wife can tell you this, like one of their favorite things to do for the little ones with me is that um at night before bed, like you know, maybe an hour before, so um, they'll sit down with me and they'll ask for funny videos. Can we sit down and watch some funny videos? And so I already have like a list of like pre-videos that I've seen and watched and all that stuff. And so it's like little humor that they get before going to bed, but it's super remote away from like social media. And I want them to, and and I just had a conversation with my eight-year-old the other day about social media, how uh, and I think this taps into this conversation of the difference in generations, like, you know, like you, Brie, like I was also raised where like I just got home and I was just in charge of myself and making sure that everything was taken care of. And if I heard any type of noise by the door, I would like kind of like you know, home alone. Like I just started setting traps and things, and not maybe not traps, but I was like locking the windows and locking the doors and all this stuff. Um, and now I feel like this generation is so like that's not even on the radar. It's just all about this computer, the the how am I interacting with people, not in person. Um, and it's so challenging because I know that that's the world that they're growing that they are growing up in. Um, and I kind of compare it a little bit to like when people say, like, well, you know, like when, you know, I know like my um my wife's grandpa will say something like, Well, well, when I was your age, I was able to buy a car and a house and this and that. And they compare prices on things. You're like, Well, a house and a car were way cheaper compared to like the income that you made. So there's all those differences, right? All those nuances. And so it's definitely tricky to be, you know, to implement some of those rules with our kids, particularly because of the the the co-parenting side. Um, but we do, we do as much as we can on like screens are just super, super dangerous. And I still need to um implement the like for us, like no phones in our bedrooms. Um, and I know that I I use the like, well, I have like this sleeping app thing that tracks my sleep and blah, blah, blah. And the more I think about it, I'm like, do I really need that?

SPEAKER_04 1:26:05

You probably sleep better without it.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:07

And and I guarantee you that I can wake up and tell you how I slept. Yeah. Just based on, you know, like, not exactly. Yeah. So I don't need an app to tell me, oh, you slept at 73% efficiency last night. Like, yeah. So um, so yeah, and I think that's something that uh with Lathouse, we you know, we used to advocate really hard for get on an alarm clock if that's the thing that's stopping you from you know, for eight dollars. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:33

Uh it's a deep it's a deep puddle. Deep and people are strangely passionate about, you know, certain sides of of this conversation. One thing this this I don't know, this will probably land various ways with various people, but uh one thing is you you can't you can't have it both ways. And so, like, I don't know that I would say screens are super dangerous, I would say they're very addictive. And so we need to have an awareness of like, am I controlling this screen or is this screen controlling me? And am I engaging in it in healthy ways? Am I am I addicted? Right. And it's like Simon Sinek has that great video that we show in the leadership series on leadership and technology where he says, look, if you are checking your phone before you say good morning to your spouse or significant other, that is because you have an addiction.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:25

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:27:26

And and a lot of us like don't want to say that. Like Yeah, it's hard to add if we had another vice right next to our bed, like a bottle of alcohol or a pack of cigarettes, or you know, I mean, name it. And you and that was the first thing you reached over and grabbed, you were just like, that'd be a problem. Right? You'd be like, oh man, that's a problem. But we reach for this glowy, shiny thing, and it's like, wow, everyone's doing it. Right. But what I mean when I say you can't have it both ways is that I think I think there's a lot of parents who are frustrated by Cell phone addiction or screen addiction. And it was also the thing that you handed them in the restaurant. Right. And so I just I see it. I the reason I see it so much is because we've always been anti. So it is, I mean, it is not uncommon for multiple people to come up to us at restaurants and say stuff because from the time our kids were super tiny, we have always asked for extra coloring sheets. We have always brought a deck of cards. We have always brought dice. I mean, Brianna in her purse, when we go out anywhere, she always has a deck of cards and Yahtzee. So it's a baggie with five dice and Yahtzee scorecards folded up into the baggie. We can take it anywhere and everywhere. And couples will come up to us. It's so cool that you guys are playing games, right? Like interacting. Yeah. The servers will come up to us. They'll like say things. Our daughters are older now. Like our 16-year-old still asks for coloring sheets when we sit down because they're not just coloring sheets. We can play tic-tac-toe on them. We can play hangman. We can, you know, we we do these things at restaurants where and and we play one of our favorite games, which is we make up stories about other people and their families. And so we'll be like, what's going on over here? First date? Last date? What's happening? You know, like, um, and and it's taught them to have like some wonder in the world, it's taught them how to be present. Um, it it makes them phenomenal conversation. I can't tell you, I mean, you're one of them, but I can't tell you how many people are constantly telling us your kids are different. And I'm like, listen, our kids are different because very early we kept telling them our family's different. Honestly. And for a while, Brandon's like, how long why do you keep telling them this? I'm like, because they're gonna need to know, like, our family's different. And if you can trust that we are on your team and we want the best things for you, but it's gonna be different when you don't have the phone. It's gonna be different when you take a month off and are in Mexico for the entire month of July, right? Not other families can do that. Like, there's there's things that are gonna be some of them are gonna be awesome, and others of them are gonna be harder for you to understand. Yeah. Right. But we're different.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:17

Totally. I got to see just tapping back on the like, how cool is this that when we were going to Costa Rica last year, we're I remember vividly, we're at the airport and your girl sat down to play cards while we're waiting for a flight. Um and just a stranger, a random girl with her family was sitting pretty close by, and just those kids came over, and like I think it was like maybe more than one girl, it's like two, maybe a couple of girls, like just randomly came over, sat on the floor, and just started playing cards with your kiddos. Like that to me is like, and then and then you could still look around and you can see other kids on their iPads, even with headphones where they're like immersed in that world, and they don't realize that there are other human beings, their age, that they could relate to, they can connect to, they can like just interact because we tend to close our our world into just like this screen and headphones. And it's getting worse. I mean, now we're putting like the screen even closer to our eyes. We're putting the screen literally in our glasses, we're putting like all of that stuff. Just shoving the headphones inside our ear. Deeper. Yes. I mean, yeah, seriously. That's that's all good. Um, and so it to me that was so remarkable, like just to see that interaction. I mean, my one of my 17-year-olds was there too, and he was just having a ball playing, like, you know, every night and like incredible. So that I think is amazing. I think for parents listening out there, and that this might seem something like so foreign, or like you even said, like to bring that rope back in that you've let go a little bit too much. Like, you are ultimately the leader of your family. You are the one leading. And so one of the best ways we can do is just like Josh said, like, lead by example, start there.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:59

And own it, like and be part of it. So come back to if if, yeah, maybe, maybe someone's contemplating doing something different here, right? I would say this would be a great opportunity to own your fingerprints on it. So something in the sense of like, hey fam, hey, team, I would love to sit down and just talk about our like collective relationship with technology, where it's showing up in certain places. Um, obviously, it's a super useful tool. Um, you know, I'm feeling like I've let this go a little too far. We probably should have had a conversation about this sooner. Let's co-create. What do you all think? Like, what would it look like to have, you know, lower the bar, start small, one family dinner, you know, a week that is just phone and device free. Or, you know, every time we go out to eat, we're gonna commit to to not do it's like lower the bar so that you can start to get some momentum on that. But yeah, I would I would definitely encourage leaning into that if it's if it's coming up for anybody.

SPEAKER_03 1:32:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:32:59

And just to be fair, we are not perfect by any means. I mean, on that after they played cards before that flight, they got out the iPad on the flight. The they come home from school, first thing they want to do is chill out for 20 minutes and and turn on the iPad. Yeah, it's balance.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:18

For sure. Yeah. I I can tell you going back to what you said with the band story, Patrick, the the systems can sometimes frustrate me quite a bit. Like uh when Brandon got to middle school, she made the volleyball team, and we found out pretty quickly that like practice times were being communicated through a group text thread. So we literally, I think she was brought to a practice and there was no one was there because the practice had gotten moved and it wasn't, and it's like, that's not okay. That's it's not okay from my perspective. I should say. Okay, I'll I'll just uh get passionate. Right. I from my perspective, it's not okay for a school sanctioned activity, an extracurricular activity through school to only communicate through a group text message. And now you're telling me that like I have to go get my kid a phone to participate in this.

SPEAKER_06 1:34:12

Yeah, at least in middle school. I mean, we're talking like 11, 12 years old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:16

Yeah. Or that like you're not supposed to have, we're in high school now, right? You're not we she is in high school. That's in the parenting book I'm reading. We're for parents that say, like, uh, well, we started out the year well, but we're struggling now. And he says, he's like, Are you enrolled in her class also? Like, it's her class, not yours. She's in high school. Um, they're not supposed to have phones, like it's in class, it's a school policy. And like first week of school, she's texting me from class, and I'm like, What's going on? Oh, the teacher just told us to be on our phones, we don't have to do anything. And I'm like, Or the teacher would be like, pull out your phone and look this up. Or like, you know, your free time here. You can go on your phones. What are you doing? Because you'll get what you tolerate. And so now you're just inviting it in. So yeah, I can it could go on forever. Yeah, it's not my favorite area.

SPEAKER_06 1:35:10

No, I mean, we're still still texting us. Hey, I have free time. Can I can I watch a show? Can you watch it? Everyone else is watching Netflix right now, Starbucks or Dutch Bros. Everyone else is watching Netflix right now, and it's like, sorry, man, but it's like my favorite dad post. Bring a book.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:28

I uh texted my daughter. I'm so proud of you, all the effort you're putting in. You're you're crushing it. Respond. Thanks, bruh. Can you give me Starbucks? Oh my goodness. I was I was not ready for the transition from dada to daddy to dad to bruh.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:45

Oh I mean, this reminds me a little bit of what you were saying earlier about the respect, you know, like what we take as respect, and then reminds me of shrinking. Uh-huh. Remember, they're like, Oh my bad, bruh. My bad.

SPEAKER_03 1:35:58

So great show.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:59

Shrinking's amazing. Shrinking is amazing. Yeah. Okay. So I mentioned some parenting decisions we made. Uh, I'm gonna go all the way back to the beginning, actually, when we were getting ready to become parents. Okay. We made a an unconventional, unpopular decision. Oh my gosh. Yes, I know. And and it's been one that I've just heard you encourage and and advocate for with other people. So curious if you want to share a little bit right out the gate uh becoming parents, what we did that was a little different.

SPEAKER_06 1:36:35

Yeah, I mean, it's been a while. You might remember more details than me, but um I feel like you were at my OB appointment with me and our midwife, Helen, who we were hoping her or one of the other ladies in the office would be um there when Braylon was being born. And I think she may have been the one to make the recommendation. Hey, have you considered not telling anybody that uh you're in labor and you're headed to the hospital? Um, you know, I've you know, I've made this recommendation to people and no one's ever done it. But I just feel like when when you're delivering, you're uh you want the attention on you, just the two of you. And what I'm noticing is that a lot of people are distracted by the family members or friends that are showing up at the hospital. Um, and you know, they're answering text messages and it's creating a sense of like stress for both the the mom and and the dad. So, you know, just the thought. And uh, you know, we we left that appointment, like this is gonna hurt. But uh not us. Yeah, no. I think I think we're gonna be okay, but this is you know, just some feelings that might get hurt here. So we yeah, we we agreed. Okay, when when you go in labor, we're we're not gonna tell anybody and we're gonna have this baby and we're gonna bond with her for the first couple hours, and then we'll let people know, hey.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:18

I wonder if that was our miss. Was our miss telling people that that's what we were gonna do? Maybe we should have just done it and not even told them that we were gonna do that.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:25

I don't know. It's like, do you maybe if you're on the receiving end of that information, you might like the heads up as opposed to just being like slammed in the face, like, oh, it already happened. So I don't know, it really probably depends on your family.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:39

Mixed bag of reactions, I would say.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:42

Yeah, yeah, we had a mixed bag of reactions. Yeah, we had we had lots of support, um, you know, and and some hurt feelings.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:51

And the outcome was for you, for us.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:56

I love the experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:57

We did it three times.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:59

Mm-hmm. Well, I think the third time, well, the second time we let we had one person.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:04

Because they had to watch our other guy.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:05

They w yeah. And then again, she watched them the the third time. And I think the third time we may have told a couple people, and sure enough, someone showed up. But um yeah, I so anyway, it was such a great experience. Um, and our midwife Helen, who actually end up ended up um delivering delivering all three of our daughters. I mean, what are the chances? She she couldn't believe we actually pulled it off that we did it. She was so proud of us, loved watching our experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:38

And how I'm not gonna lie, though, I kind of think that was part of the reason Brianna wanted to do it. I think you I think you loved Helen so much that when she suggested it and Helen was like, no one's ever done this. You wanted to be gold star patient.

SPEAKER_06 1:39:51

Like, maybe. And I like a challenge. Like nobody's ever done it. I want to do it. Yeah, I like being different in that way. I like a challenge. Um, and so that was that was a good challenge, uh, challenging to deal with all the feelings and everything. But um yeah, we pulled it off and we encouraged um multiple friends, multiple friends that ended up doing the same thing and loved their delivery experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:20

Yeah, I I don't know what I don't know, so I don't have anything to compare it to at this point. But I can, having talked with other dads, just the the ability to be fully 100% present, not having to worry about updating anyone, sending text messages, nothing, no one in the waiting room. And then yeah, it's your the first arrival of a human that you created, and we didn't have to share that time. I think I think both I think all three times we took a handful of hours. We did it was just just us right there, and it was pretty beautiful, yeah. But yeah, it didn't come with us.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:56

As soon as your family shows up, it's like your kid's gone. Yeah, and it's like this is my first opportunity to be with this child, and now for the next two hours, you can't touch them. Yeah, I can't imagine.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:09

And if I'm your kid, what a gift that you made that space and that time to receive me, to say, hey, listen, you are so important to us before you even get into this world that we're gonna make this space, this padding that it's all about you. It's all like, oh, that's gotta feel so good. It was super cool. Yeah, super cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:29

But yeah, not for everyone. Yeah, meaning it wasn't super cool for everyone. And and and that choice is obviously not for everyone.

SPEAKER_06 1:41:37

Well, now that I'm a parent and I consider that our daughters may have the same experience that we did. They may choose to do go down that path. It's like super cool. And then I get it. Part of me is like, oh man, I would really love to be there, but also I know I'm not I'm not needed anymore. That their husband, you know, the father of their child is the one that has that? Who's this? They've stepped up. Who's the guy? Well, for me, it's you, but for them, who knows who the guy's gonna be. But it's it's their responsibility.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:42:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:12

Yeah. And I mean, and from your perspective, right? Like also, if you were to wait a few hours, like I don't think that's gonna change how you show up to your grandkid or how you even show up to your daughters is not gonna change. And I'm saying this because I hope that I'm gonna feel the same way. Yeah, yeah. Um, but you know, like I think I think your girls having that space too, and knowing that mom and dad feel okay about this too. Like, that's such a huge support. And so that gives them that space and that allowance of like, hey, let's have this moment as our new family. And then, you know, grandparents and you know, everybody else can start showing up. So I think that's rad. Yeah, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:42:55

Something I something I definitely wanted to plug in there. Um, another thing that came up, not too unconventional or unpopular, um, but our kids are well traveled, um, mostly because we love to travel. And that's something that started relatively early in in our relationship. I remember right out the gate we had that fun trip to Maui. Uh, and then we did we did Disneyland and and Universal Studios. I remember that was super fun. Um, what are some trip highlights uh that you and I have gone on that you think are worthy of sharing? And then we'll talk about some of the things we've done with the girls.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:34

How much time do we have?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:35

We've got plenty of time. All time.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:37

I'll hit on a couple of them. Um we've had a couple of really great trips to Jamaica um years ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:46

We went for our honeymoon.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:48

Yeah, we went for our honeymoon, and then what, like two years later? Uh-huh. Something like that. Though that was an incredible experience.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:43:57

Um, we've also hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:43:59

You're you're leave you asked, you verbally with your tone, put a little asterisk to it, and people are gonna be like, what's going on there?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:05

So how many details do we give? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:07

Small high level.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:08

Yeah. Well, we wanted to redo that really cool Jamaica experience, but we wanted to level it up a little bit for our 20th anniversary.

SPEAKER_01 1:44:16

Last year.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:17

So we paid a pretty penny to stay at a beautiful, all-inclusive resort. And within 24 hours, we were let's just say tests came back that I had salmonella poisoning and you had something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:34

I had salmonella.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:35

I had salmonella, and you had some that started with an R.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:38

Oh yeah, rotavirus.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:40

Rodovirus. That's what that's right. We were like deathly ill.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:44

Happy 20 years. Yeah. Are you done in the bathroom?

SPEAKER_06 1:44:48

Hurry up.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:49

My turn. Yeah, it was that was rough. We still like Jamaica. Super cool. If Brianna's like, I could take it or leave it at this point.

SPEAKER_06 1:44:56

Yeah, I wanted to go to more places. But um, yeah, we also did oh, Spain with your sister um for the Pamplona Festival in Spain running with the Bulls.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:09

I was the only one that ran with the Bulls. Yeah. I ran from the Bulls. Let's let's make let's not with let's let's be more clear about that. I ran from the Bulls.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:17

Yeah, yeah. And I'm pretty sure like the night before you ran or something, some guy just from a couple hours from here got gored.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:25

Yeah, it was a guy from Baker's shoot. Yeah. My whole family is like sending us emails because we didn't have cell phones at that point, right? I'm like getting an email like a guy got gored yesterday. I'm like, yeah, that's what happens. Like, run faster.

SPEAKER_06 1:45:37

Right. So that was that was an epic trip. You running and just the experience of Spain and the sangria. I mean, it was a full week-long festival. And we showed up, got off the airplane, out of the hotel, and we walk outside, and every person is wearing white and red. We're like, oh, we do not fit in here. So we had to go shopping for some new clothes.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:01

Then we wear the we wore the same outfit for like four days. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:07

Everyone would just spray sangria.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:09

San Fermin Festival.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:10

The San Furmin Festival.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:12

In Pamblona. Yeah. And that was super fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:46:15

Yeah. I got lost one night that they found me back at the hotel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:46:20

My goodness. That was good. Was this before the girls?

SPEAKER_02 1:46:24

This was before kids. Yeah. And this was, yeah, Brianna, my sister, and I, the three of us went and we did, we did a we did the San Fermin Festival, but then, you know, we also um we went to Barcelona. Um, so we did we did some sightseeing and I La Sagrada Familia. It was amazing. Love that place. Yeah. The Olympic Stadium. Saw, you know, did Picasso's Museum. Loved it over there. I would like to go back to Spain for sure. I'll tell you a trip we did that we did not enjoy and will not do again was uh New Year's Eve in Times Square. Oh yeah, going to watch the ball drop. Miserable as far as just like the amount of people, how hard it is to get from place to place. Like one thing you don't realize is the ball drops at midnight, people start lining up and early morning, like 9 a.m. And then like you can't leave, you can't move. But we've heard rumors people wear diapers, like because like you can't go to go to the bathroom. Like if you give up your spot, if you're right there, and if I send her to go to the bathroom, she's never making it back to me. So that was just one that it was very highly impacted and was not super enjoyable. Yeah. Yikes. Um, we the traveling adventuring is just something of like it's a family core value of ours. It's a lot of who we are. So we have taken the thing that that made me think of this was you mentioning Costa Rica, Patrick. So we've done some trips together, which I definitely want to talk about. One that I think ahead of Costa Rica and some Mexico stuff is Africa.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:04

Five weeks. Six weeks. Yeah. We were in South Africa for six weeks.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:08

We did um why the heck were you in South Africa? And why are you taking kids? How tell me how old Blakely was again?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:15

Yeah. Like nine months.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:16

Nine months. Brindley was two.

unknown 1:48:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:48:20

Brilliant was four.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:21

Brindley was two. That would trap. Because yeah, Brindley was born right around when the when Give Fitness opened, when the gym opened. And so about two years into Give Fitness, we were busting at the seams. I mean, it we we felt like it was a bit of a gold strike. We were like, this community, this town obviously was looking for, you know, this different kind of fitness product. We were very middle of the road as far as price was concerned, mid-market. We were doing, you know, like a $30 membership, gave you free kid care and free classes. And and it was just, we had found a model that was working. And um Matt Hogan, who was he ran working to give and give fitness, was a part of the working to give parent of companies. He was supporting an orphanage home in South Africa. And so I actually went out with Matt and a few other team members to South Africa to visit that orphanage home. And when we did, we were we're gym bros, so we like going to the gym and we're working out, right? And basically, what we learn and discover is that the fitness industry in South Africa was almost identical to the United States, in that they had a lot of high-end, very expensive clubs. It's actually Virgin is the main brand over there. And then they had the low end, like planet fitness type, you know, to know it, but they didn't have anything kind of mid market with that same idea, like classes, kid care, that kind of thing. And we actually saw a path of like we could open some gyms in South Africa that could then sustain the organization. Orphanage home using the give model so that it wouldn't, you know, one gym could probably sustain an orphanage home. And it was going to be this like it was a pretty cool idea.

unknown 1:50:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:10

To the point where we're like, okay, and you know, Matt says, let's go research it, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:14

So real quick, can you explain the give model to those that yeah?

SPEAKER_02 1:50:17

The give model. Well, and we talked about it before, but the give model is um make as much money as you can so that you can give as much money away as you can. So the give the give businesses pre-allocate 50% of net profits to giving, um, whether that's with other nonprofit partners and kind of like writing checks to organizations or literally going out and doing give service type work. Yeah. And so this model was going to be like, look, one gym in South Africa could financially sustain an orphanage home. Um, and we could, we could grow over the course of time. So that was the kind of the intent and reason for going out there. We were taking three really young kids, and it was six weeks, two weeks down in Cape Town. Um, and we had some contacts. We we knew some people down there that we could hang out with and and spend time with and kind of point us around, and then four weeks up in Johannesburg, different area of South Africa. Um, we joke that that's when Blakely got crazy, though.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:19

Tell us more about that.

SPEAKER_06 1:51:20

She was such a good baby. So calm, you know, but you travel over there and I don't know the time difference, but that poor thing, like night one. I mean, she's our our whole system is messed up. We're trying to like go to bed. And I'm like, okay, I'm sleep training her. Like, how mean of me. But anyway, um she falls into a good system. She's, you know, sleeping well. But then one day we're driving in Johannesburg, and this quiet, sweet little baby just starts like making this weird animalistic noise. Over and would not start. And over and over. And then she's still.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:02

I feel like she's still doing it. Yeah. Yeah. She stopped from that one.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:06

Yeah, she's she is an animal.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:09

We're gonna get her on here soon. Yeah. She would love it.

SPEAKER_06 1:52:12

She asked me about that this morning.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:14

Blakely tells everyone everywhere she goes that um she's gonna be the CEO of Lighthouse. Like, okay, but that's a ways down the road. I just became CEO of Lighthouse, okay? Um so Costa Rica. Um, Costa Rica. You and I, you and I have been together a few times. You and I have been together, we've all been together. Uh Costa Rica first uh got introduced to me. It was actually through AB Atascadero Bible Church. Um I was helping out with the youth ministry and uh they call them hub groups. There was a young group of boys that I was uh meeting with Wednesday night, mentorship, you know, guidance type thing. And the end of their senior year when they graduate, the the youth group takes them on a missions trip. Um and at this point in time it was to Costa Rica and it was down in the very, very southern part of Costa Rica. It's in an area called Lamone uh or a Talamanca, like the Talamanca Mountains, and uh the people down there, the indigenous people are called the Bribris, and they are still very indigenous, um, like living in huts and tents and you know, some some structures and buildings, and um surprisingly they still have cell phones.

SPEAKER_06 1:53:32

I mean that's wild. Yeah, it is a new thing over the last few years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:53:36

Um, and so it was take the group of high school seniors down to Costa Rica, and in this week of service, the American high schoolers put on a youth camp for the Briebry kids, and you'd have I don't know, anywhere from like one to two hundred um Briebery kids hike in from all over these this mountainous area and come to this camp property where Tascado Bible Church would partner with a local church from San Jose, and they had a missions team called Kyrgios, and that Kyrgios missions team with these high school seniors, they go down there and for a week put on this camp where they're providing food and um a program and activities and really just just loving kids and um you know taking care of them, and it it was uh unbelievable experience. Yeah. Um very poor timing when I got asked to go the first time. Uh it was you had just had a baby, uh, you had just had Brindley, and we I had just had another baby because the gym had just opened this brand new business, and um, yeah, long story medium, decided to do the hard thing and go. And super, super glad that I did. Uh fell in love with both the Kyrios team, so the locals from San Jose who were going down and serving those people, but then also the Brebris and the indigenous tribes and the women in the kitchen and and all just all the all the people. And so um coming back from that, and I just I do this sometimes, right? Where I'm like, I get that cannot be a one and done thing. Like I'm just not, I I gotta get some more of that. Uh I think it's probably near like 12 to 15 times that I've gone back down and taken various groups and teams with me, whether that's you know, you two and my family, or there was a time where when we were at Give, we put a team together and um, you know, Patrick, you went down and captured all that video content to help build a well for them and some permanent water. So yeah, curious um on the Costa Rica thing, what comes up for for you two?

SPEAKER_06 1:55:50

Go ahead, Patrick.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:52

Changed my life 100%. 100%. I mean, I grew up in Mexico City, which for those who have not traveled and maybe experienced that, like you know, the the picture I think that most people have of Mexico is that, you know, people are still in sandals and that they're still wearing the sombreros and there's like cacti. Like, I know some people have that perception and like Cinco de Mayo is like Independence Day kind of thing. And I'm like, no, it's not. It's in fact, to me, Mexico City is like LA and New York had a baby and it's just like super overpopulated. It's just dirty, there's you know, noise. I mean, you know, big metropolis. Um and so while I had done some trips with, you know, my family growing up and like some indigenous portions, we always landed with family. Like we were always in like, you know, a nice house where there's a bathroom and there's running water and there's all the things. And so um I had seen some indigenous communities, but I had never actually been so close to one to where actually I got to experience some of the challenges that um the communities in Costa Rica were going through, especially in that area of Talamanca, like the bree, where, like you said, Josh, we took a hike up to the mountains to see where these people were living. And literally, like they make their homes, like the floor of their home is like maybe like four or five feet above ground because they keep all their livestock underneath, like all the chickens, all their food, all that stuff. And then the floor of their homes is made out of the bark of tree. And they just like roll it in a way so that you know they just have like these little slats of tree. Um, and what one of one of the most shocking moments to me was when, yeah, we're inside that house, there's no electricity, there's no running water, there's like a little um oven stove type thing that they had just made out of, you know, like brick and rocks and mud and all that. And then there's this woman weaving a hammock because that's what she does to, you know, like support herself. And she has a cell phone. I'm like, where in the world do you have what? It's cell service out here. Yes, like it's one of those where commercials like, can you hear me now? You know, like people ride. Yes, yeah, it's wild. And they have a solar panel and they just run a little wire so that they're able to connect. So that kind of bringing it back to the technology part, like how addicting technology can be where like it reaches those communities, like they might not have running water.

SPEAKER_06 1:58:13

I was just gonna say that. You don't have a toilet, you don't have running water, you need to shower, you go find the river. But hey, I have a cell phone.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:20

But I have a cell phone and Facebook and all the things, right? Which is incredible. Um, and another thing was to me that in in that same little hut, I remember there was a little boy sitting in the on the doorstep and he had like these big, big, big wounds on his uh shins. And we, you know, we're asking about all the needs and all the things that they um they're facing. And uh it was so crazy to me to talk about a like a mother moment there where like this little kid had been bitten by a bug that apparently you have like, I forget how many like hours, maybe a day or two before if you don't get treated, that part of your body needs to be basically cut off. Um, so this little boy has these two cuts in his shins. And I, you know, I'm inquiring, asking about the story. And turns out that the mom, she kind of knew what was happening, and she just put this little boy on her back and hiked, I think, for like a day or something to the closest clinic for like hours for sure, just to get help to this little boy. And it was just incredible, like that, so powerful, like what what moms, what parents will do for our kids, right? So um, anyway, sorry, that was just a little uh sidetracked there. But um, but yeah, Costa Rica for me was incredible. I got to see your heart and things, how you showed up for this community, uh, you know, bringing your family, bringing the girls there. Like everybody there was just like giving everything they had, you know, like we were there, like I mean, from the moment that the sun came up to the moment that everybody would go to sleep. But we're just working, we're just you know helping out. And the same with curios, like everybody, the team down there was just oh, the heart that they have. So, anyways, that was one of my hard trip.

SPEAKER_06 1:59:58

It is very challenging.

SPEAKER_02 1:59:59

It is uh sleeping on plywood, you know, you don't need blankets, but like mosquito network everywhere. I mean, your meals are rice and beans. Like, I mean, you might get a mystery protein, you know, every once in a while.

SPEAKER_06 2:00:16

Tuna spaghetti.

SPEAKER_02 2:00:17

Tuna spaghetti. Tuna spaghetti. The meat that they like to joke is carne de caballo, like horse meat, you know. No, it's not. Don't tell people that. Uh, you know, my girls eat a lot of cliff bars and beef jerky that week. Um but yeah, it's always yeah, it's been something that we want our girls to to see the world. We want our girls to know that they live in a bubble, multiple bubbles, like the bubble of the United States, the bubble of California, the bubble of the Central Coast. Like this is you know, bubbles on bubbles. Um what about for you, Costa Rica? Anything from your perspective you want to share?

SPEAKER_06 2:00:55

Yeah, I mean, like you said, it's a hard trip. It's hot, it's humid. You might not get a shower. I mean, there was one year where the there was a hurricane and it shut down. I'm sorry, the hose, the long hose that went out to the river.

SPEAKER_02 2:01:14

That was the trip that made us do the well project.

SPEAKER_06 2:01:17

Yeah, absolutely. They didn't have a well for running water, and so there was a hose connected to the river. Hurricane comes, we lose, we lose water, we lose power. Um, I mean, the kids had to go home from camp a day early because then I couldn't use the bathroom. Um, yeah, it's exhausting. So much work, but there's nothing more rewarding than that. And um I don't I don't know if I should mention this, but I will. Uh, we've gone for years and years and years, and it wasn't until this last year that I found out like how what these children are dealing with in this community. Um, sexual abuse is it runs rampant. Um anyway, so we it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:11

It's it's it's right on the Panama border.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:14

So there's human trafficking concerns, there's a lot of violence, there's you know Yeah, it's like it's it's like considered normal within their community to be abused by somebody that's you're living with, right?

SPEAKER_02 2:02:26

Like incestual sexual abuse.

SPEAKER_06 2:02:27

And so, you know, you're around these girls and these boys that are experiencing this and and and just seeing like their their tears and because of the trauma that they've gone through, and then also like their happiness to be so loved for that one week by all these leaders that are feeding them and and speaking truth to them. It's just like such an incredible experience. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02:54

Thank you. I wanted to point back to Uno. Um because you you know, you said the the cards in the airport and um you know someone in the airport just coming over and playing, and and then you get so you get to Costa Rica, and obviously in Costa Rica Spanish is the the primary language. Um and I would say for the most part down in Lamona and Talamanca, like you're gonna Spanish is very prominent, but they also speak bribri, which and and from a cultural standpoint, they're really trying to to hold on to and maintain some of that that bribery culture because it's they're starting to feel it go away. So all that to say there's significant language barriers, right? And and uh even though our daughters wanted to do Dolingo for two weeks prior to going to Costa Rica, shocker that didn't make them fluent, yeah. Um but it was fascinating to watch them pull out the Uno cards and see it be a magnetic pole for other kids. Yep. And you and and even shy kids, you'd see them standing behind the circle and just kind of waiting, like, can I play too? They can't speak to each other, but they know numbers and they know colors. And you'd hear um some of the camper kids try to start you. So our girls still make a joke about when we're playing Uno, they say green, because like one of the camera girls just green, green, like they're like, I don't even know if she knew the other colors. I'm like, she did, she just had a lot of green, right? So like um, but then you'd hear our girls try like verde, like Amario, you know, and they'll try each of them were trying the numbers and the language, but you could see people from completely different spots on the globe and just come together playing a silly card game. Yep. Um, and and our girls were were driving that a lot, a lot of that week. You're no, it was too. It was super fun.

SPEAKER_05 2:04:50

Yeah, and talk about that connection. Like, imagine if that pack of Uno cars that you guys brought would have been replaced easily by a phone or an iPad. Wouldn't have done this, it wouldn't it would have done the opposite, actually. 100%. Yeah. And so that is, I think, one of those big things that, you know, pointing back to technology, that that is what we're missing. That is what it's blocking us from doing is having that human connection with others, not just in schools, but everywhere we go. Like the more you put a screen in your phone, that's kind of telling the world, I don't want to hear you, I don't want to know your story. I I've got stories here in front of my hand. And so I think there's so much power in putting that screen down. I mean, I try it as much as I can whenever we're going anywhere. Like we went to Disneyland and I try so hard to just view my phone as a camera so that, oh, this is a cool moment to capture and then put it away.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:45

Rather than like I'm bored here or I'm this or I'm that just look around. There's there's a world out there.

SPEAKER_02 2:05:51

I've been using airplane mode a little bit more frequently with that. So if because the camera's an easy, easy excuse. And so if I truly, if I truly am bringing it because I want it to be a camera, I'll just throw it in airplane mode and then kind of just I like to make a lot of rules for myself. So it'll just be like, okay, like you can't take it out of airplane mode until we're back home, right? And then it's just a camera while while we're doing this. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Um I love having you here. This is so cool. Uh most of the rooms we're in are male dominated. Yeah. And we are in we are in a male dominated industry, right? Uh the whole movement around trying to get war more women in the trades, more women in construction. You know, there's a whole women in construction like week that they celebrate that idea and trying to trying to do more of it. It's funny because there's a uh a client of ours that put up when that came up this year. He's like, this it bothers me that this is still a week, that this is still something we have to like. It was very, it was eloquently put and it was well intended. It's like, why is this still a thing? Why are we not moving the needle on this? Um, you talked a bit about like your role within my mom's business and what you were doing for her. Update us on uh because when I listened back, you basically just said you do all things administrative, like within Lighthouse. Tell us a little bit more about um, you know, your professional role within Lighthouse Institute and what that looks like for you.

SPEAKER_06 2:07:19

It's a great question. Uh, I do lots of little things. It feels like like it's a lot of little things, but they're things that you all need as facilitators to be able to be successful. So I'm just like behind the scenes preparing a lot of that stuff for you guys and making sure that you're set up for success, along with several other women. Right. I'm trying to think if there are any men that do what I'm doing. We've got several women behind the scenes that are preparing you all for going in there for your 65 hours of training. Um, so that's a big area of focus. And then of course, I do I run payroll and invoicing, um, which those can be long days, but how cool is it to like I've had to shift my mindset. I am asking for money. Like, how cool is that to be running a business where it's like you've got income coming in?

SPEAKER_02 2:08:09

So it's a very important part of the business. Yes, yeah. So you're responsible for sending out, you know, they call it all of our accounts payable, our accounts receivable, right? You do all of that, so you're you're bringing the money in. Yeah. And then you're running payroll. So I know everyone on our team is super grateful for you pushing that button and running those reports because you're making sure our team members get paid.

SPEAKER_03 2:08:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:31

Yeah. And then administrative, uh, what'd you say? You said behind the scenes.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:35

Behind the scenes operator, I think is what I'm joked.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:38

Nice.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:39

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:08:40

I love it. So the question I really want to get to is I wonder if you could process with us just uh like identity, the idea of identity. And I know having been your husband and you know, someone close in your life, that that's been a bit of a roller coaster around, you know, identity as a woman who works and and produces income and uh contributes to the household, uh, identity as mom, uh, identity as stay-at-home mom. Uh, and then identity as working mom. And and so like, yeah, just I I know that the call it a small amount, but the the women in in the lighthouse world, I know there's a lot of them that wrestle with that and and are dealing with that kind of same challenge.

SPEAKER_06 2:09:34

Yeah. That's a big topic. Um as a kid growing up, uh, I was heavily encouraged to go to college. And and I did. It was, you know, I'm the first one in my family on either side, well, no, my grandfather or my dad's side was a pediatrician. But other than him, for sure on my mom's side, I was the first person to get a a college degree. And so that was so important to me. And again, like I said, I wanted to be a teacher and then I wait, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:07

Yeah, don't just brush over that. The first person on your mom's side of the family to get a college degree.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:15

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:16

That's huge. Thank you. Huge. Yeah. And honestly, like going to college, finishing college, getting a degree, I think is one of those things that has almost gotten diluted over the course of time, right? It's just like, oh, well, you graduate high school, graduate. It's like, it's a big deal. You put a ton of time, a ton of effort, a ton of intentionality into it. And I happen to know that you did it while working full time.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:42

You were working full time, supporting yourself and going to college.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10:47

I was pretty amazing.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:49

Thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:50

Okay, now you can keep going.

SPEAKER_06 2:10:52

Okay, so thank you. Uh, like I said, I had wanted to be a teacher. I envisioned actually, I wanted to be a psychologist. I wanted to be a therapist, but I went to school to get um my teaching degree. Then I worked for your mom, and then it I just at the end of the day, I also knew I wanted to be a mom and ultimately a stay-at-home mom or a mom that can focus on being a mom and a wife and maybe also bring in some income. So it's been quite the battle for me mentally, from going from working full-time pre-kids to now having three daughters and shifting from 40 to 50 hours a week down to I don't know, sometimes I might work five hours, it might be a 15 hour week. I don't know. But there have been periods of our marriage in the last few years where I feel like I need to contribute financially. Like that it felt like something I had to do, no matter how many times you say. Hey, I got you. You have the opportunity to be a stay-at-home mom. That was really challenging for me. Um I wanted to do it. I wanted to do it all. So, like how my identity something seemed to click though. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:19

Something, you know, call it in the last few years. Right. Something, something seemed and we haven't and we really we have not talked about this. Um something shifted in your energy, uh, in the way that it seemed for it seemed I would describe it as like you having a a high level of peace and comfort.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:39

Gotten to that point.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:12:41

Took forever.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:42

What do you think happened?

SPEAKER_06 2:12:43

Uh the two of us had a conversation. I think this was the conversation that that changed things. And it was about, you know, if I were getting paid to be the cook, to be the maid, to be the Uber driver, to be the therapist, to be all the things. You know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:12

That's a it's a high salary.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:14

It's a high salary. And so that as a stay-at-home mom, primarily because I do work at home. I do work, but primarily I'm a stay-at-home mom. That is my contribution. All the things that I do for the family. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:13:29

And that's that is enough. I remember having that talk. I did not know that that was a significant discussion.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:37

It's pretty pivotal.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:38

Interesting.

SPEAKER_06 2:13:39

Yeah. You know, and back in the day when we had Give Fitness, I was a personal trainer. And you know, I didn't I didn't work very much then, maybe a couple hours a day, and I had time for my own workouts. And then I would, you know, maybe meet with a woman at 5 30 in the morning because she had to go to work and work in eight to five, or I'd meet with her at 5 30. And it's like I cannot believe how many women can do all those things and do them well. And I some women don't have the opportunity to be a stay-at-home parent and they have to go work a full-time job and be expected to take care of the family, to do all the grocery shopping and the cooking and the cleaning, and be beautiful and take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:34

Like you honestly keep going, and and and they're how is that possible?

SPEAKER_06 2:14:42

And how can you also still be mentally healthy? I would be drowning personally. I I don't know that I I have that in me to work a full-time job and have all these expectations on caring for my home and my kids and all their needs and and then take care of myself. It's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 2:15:04

It is a lot.

SPEAKER_06 2:15:06

And if you are a woman that has the opportunity to be a hit stay-at-home mom and that's what you want, I would encourage you to try it out. There's also a lot of women that want to work. And they're okay with their kids being in k kid care or with dad. And hey, that's that's awesome for them. No judgment there. If that's your path, that just wasn't mine.

SPEAKER_02 2:15:32

Yeah. Super interesting, especially for me. Um, and I I suspect it's gonna be very interesting and relevant for some others as well. So you're saying that that conversation it shifted a little bit for you. It's almost sounding like there's like it gave you a little bit of permission to acknowledge the would-be salaries around a lot of the things that you were doing as as core contributions. I would say I have also noticed a shift in your what's the word I want to look for, in your willingness and commitment to uh taking care of yourself first and foremost. That's that's in the last couple of years, that has felt like a shift. Um, if I rewind prior to that, I would say you might have been in the camp of writing some stories about those sorts of things being selfish.

SPEAKER_06 2:16:28

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:29

Uh, or an inappropriate use of time and energy, which I guess is probably still underneath the selfish bucket.

SPEAKER_03 2:16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:16:36

Um, but I would in the last couple of years, it feels like there's been a significant shift around your not just willingness, your your commitment to taking care of yourself in, I would say all systems, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually. Tell us about that. What's coming up there?

SPEAKER_06 2:16:54

Yeah. Growing up, I've always been interested in physical fitness. I knew from a young age that when I exert myself, whether that be running around the block a few times or busting out some sit-ups and push-ups and air squats in my bedroom, that made me feel good. I mean, science backs it. Working, using your body can help with mental clarity and endorphins. And so that's always been important to me. Uh, you know, even as a personal trainer, that was extremely important to me. And the girls were maybe home a bit more during that time. And then COVID hit and just trying to find the balance of taking time for myself and caring for the family and feeling like this is a selfish decision right now. But ultimately, if I would go the whole day without moving my body or spending some amount of time to myself to take care of myself, I wasn't showing up well for my kids. I was more irritable, short-tempered. And then I wouldn't show up well for you either, I would guess. And so you guys would get the short end of the stick if I wasn't um taking care of myself. So over the last few years, that's been a high priority. And thankfully, I've been I've had the opportunity to dive into different activities and you know, I don't have like a regimented program anymore. Like I used to. You know, some days I might go out and play pickleball with you for an hour or two. I might hit up the gym, lift some weights, or take a hot yoga class. Or I've recently gotten involved with jujitsu.

SPEAKER_02 2:18:43

Oh, we may or may not have talked about that on here without without you being a good thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:18:51

Yeah. So there's so many reasons why I said yes to that. I mean, Patrick, your wife, Chrissy, is the one that ultimately pushed me into saying yes. But in my early 20s, we would watch UFC fights. And I, once the women started coming out, it was like, oh my gosh, I am so impressed by your willingness to get out there, by your strength and your determination. So it interested me back then, but I didn't have the courage to go to the local places and and and try something new. Um so yeah, here I am. Um I'm giving it a shot. And the other thing is a random, but um Alzheimer's runs in our family. And I've been told, like, you gotta sharpen your brain, keep it sharp. And somebody said, you know, dance helps people, like it prolongs um Alzheimer's from occurring. And so I'm like, well, I don't really know that dance is my thing. What I'm seeing from jujitsu is that there are so many techniques, and you know, it's kind of like learning to dance. There's steps and there's direction. And so it mentally, mostly in the beginning, but still now, has challenged my brain so much that sometimes I am more like mentally exhausted from trying to remember the techniques than physically exhausted.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:22

Love that. Love that. So I'm I'm hearing you say that in the in the physical fitness movement kind of bucket, uh, you're kind of describing what James Clear calls an upstream habit, that like it's an upstream habit because so many other things in your life are flow downstream from that, like quite a bit easier, right? Or the way we'll say it is um like you're doing the you're committed to doing those things because you've seen the value of how it helps you show up other places.

SPEAKER_06 2:20:55

Big time.

SPEAKER_02 2:20:56

So one of the ways that I advocate for that idea with people in the room is like this is this is the airplane spiel. This is like why you need to put your oxygen mask on first. Yeah. Right. And and so I'll say it this way like, so many of you are out there pouring out for other people, and you cannot pour from an empty cup. So, what rhythms, what habits do you have in your life that are filling your cup back up so that you can continue to go pour out for people around you? And if we don't have that, if we if we don't carve out that time to say, no, I do need to go take a yoga class, I do need to go walk around the lake, I am going to get a workout and I'm going to do jujitsu because that's going to fill my cup so that I can show up as a more supportive wife, as a more caring mom, as a better friend, whatever, right? Same exact thing with the oxygen masks. There's a reason they tell you you have to put your oxygen mask on first. Because if you cannot breathe, you cannot help people around you. And so many of you are running around out there and you cannot breathe. And you're not taking that second to go, what do I need? And and we're quick to file some of those self-care things as selfish when really it's the opposite. Me holding this commitment is actually a better outcome for the people around me. That's that's what I hear you processing through. Yeah, is that fair?

SPEAKER_06 2:22:37

100%.

SPEAKER_05 2:22:39

You said it so well. So well, it's so true. Like because I'm I'm in your camp where doing things for myself feels very selfish. Um, but the more I'm practicing and understanding the way that it's changing just even my mental state, like working out in the morning, like that already puts me, you know, in just a different um, just an energy mode, I guess. And I'm like, oh my goodness, like I've taken care of myself, I've done this for me. Now I can show up for my kids. Now I'm gonna be a healthier dad. Now I'm gonna be a, you know, is just so beneficial in so many ways. And so it's definitely a shift. It it takes, it takes a little while to like see, you know, the changes, but not that long, honestly. Like the moment that you start eating healthier for yourself, like doing the exercise, you know, taking care of those little things, buying yourself that one little thing that maybe you were like, I don't know if I should or deserve this or this and that. And you just like do it and you're like, oh, I deserve that. I I I earned that, I I won that. So just those little shifts, the the benefits are humongous. Yes.

SPEAKER_06 2:23:44

And our kids are watching. Just like just like we take it back to technology real quick. If I'm gonna tell my kid, hey, you can't be on social media, I probably shouldn't be standing in front of them scrolling on Instagram. Yes, I have Instagram and I take that privately. Um just like working out, telling you that you should move your body while I'm sitting in front of the TV with a bag of Cheetos. Like that just doesn't add up. So we have to be just buy Cheetos, just I don't buy Cheetos. No, actually, we're kind of, you know. Also, my other thing that I love doing is making sourdough bread.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:25

There you go. Yeah. And we're kind of what? We're kind of committed to eating healthy, is what you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:30

Yeah, we do have like a 90-10 role, 90%.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:33

We if we get A's at home, then we go out, you know, B minus, C plus is okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:24:39

Yeah, and so ultimately I want to raise good humans. And I think a big part of raising good humans is having good um habits. And some of those habits are taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_02 2:24:51

Well, and I would say thank you. I think that's super important to model it. I this one's gonna sting for some people. But similar to what you were saying, Patrick, about sleeping and like the sleep score and that's not some people are so much more obsessed with technology attached to their workout than they are with the actual workout. I could not care less about you closing your rings and the app the challenges. It's like some of them won't even be able to work out if they don't have their watch on because they are not gonna get credit or be able to post it somewhere. And it's like, okay, chill. Like, what what are we actually doing? Yeah. And and so just think about what those ripples look like. Are you actually modeling the the fitness activity and and the movement and wanting to take care of your body? Or is this another technology addiction that has been gamified? Yep, and and literally it's it's addiction, right? All of those things are built to keep you coming back, coming back, coming back. I don't do any of it. I don't, I don't track any workouts, I don't wear aura rings, I don't do a watch. No, I don't wear a watch. I don't like I don't want more leashes.

SPEAKER_06 2:26:01

No, honestly, I've told you a lot. Like, if I could get rid of my cell phone, I would love to be able to do that. I I'm tired of having technology.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:13

Yeah. I have a friend, uh Tyler. He has one of those phones. I don't know if you guys have ever seen it. It was like a minimalist phone where it's just like all black and white and it's just words. There's no icons, there's no nothing.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:27

Super cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:26:28

Super cool. And I every time I'm around him, I'm like, I just like drool a little bit over that because not just for the phone, but like for the concept, for the idea of detaching myself from all those notifications, all those like little things. I mean, there's just so much, I think, that like you said, we're so attached to that. Like it just it it owns you eventually. And so we need to start detaching from that. So I'm I'm I'm definitely committed this year is a big year for me in like detaching in some of those things because I do wear the watch. And I actually I joke with with my friends when I'm we're working out or whatever, and my my my watch ends up not tracking for whatever reason, you know. Um, I'm like, wow, did that workout even count?

SPEAKER_06 2:27:11

Start over.

SPEAKER_05 2:27:11

Definitely joking because I'm like, I'm not doing that again. I I feel it in my body. And so I think it all goes back to the same thing, you know, like the sleep. Like, I can tell you in the morning if I slept well or not. I can tell you at night if I'm tired that day or not. You know, like I need to keep track of like how much water I'm drinking. Like my my body's telling me that you need to drink more water, you're getting headaches, all these things. And so I think the more we detach ourselves to that technology, I think the more we're gonna connect with our nature, our humanity. And like, I don't know, I think there's just something beautiful about that. So there is a place for technology that for sure.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:42

And I'm gonna, there's somebody for sure thinking, like, well, what about the whole like you can't manage what you don't measure, right? And and that's at play. I just think that sometimes we end up over-indexing on it like far too hard. And so it's like, look, if if you truly are measuring to manage your progress, and that's the thing keeping you accountable is showing up. And okay, great. But if I would argue, and probably I suspect there's a lot of people who like the habit's ingrained, you're showing up and you're doing the thing, and I don't know if you actually need the thing, and but I think you're addicted and attached to the thing.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:16

Pen and paper were great too.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:18

100%. Anything coming up for you? Anything that you were feeling like you really wanted to share today that you didn't get an opportunity to chat about?

SPEAKER_06 2:28:26

Oh, shoot. On the spot. When I leave here today, I'll definitely answer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:34

Um, I have a couple questions for you.

SPEAKER_06 2:28:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 2:28:37

Um, just kind of thinking about where you're at right now, where we're at, what's going on. Uh what are you excited about? What are you looking forward to? What are you thinking about?

SPEAKER_06 2:28:48

Well, both of our girls made all-stars. Softball. Yeah. Same team. Softball. So yeah, it's um it's gonna be a quick season, but we've got lots of softball tournaments in our future, three back to back in a row. That'll be fun. It's my I love that about being a mom, being able to watch our kids participate in sports. Um looking forward to the summer. Just um getting more family time, going on a few trips together.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:17

Love it.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:19

What would you say is the most challenging part of being married and working together? Like so, like, you know, navigating the personal and the professional. Like what feels the most challenging to you?

SPEAKER_06 2:29:32

I don't like to make mistakes. And so when you need to tell me, hey, a mistake has been made, let's find a new system for this so that that doesn't happen again.

SPEAKER_02 2:29:44

I sounds like a great answer, by the way.

SPEAKER_06 2:29:47

I struggle with taking things personal, like, oh, I messed up again. Can I do this job correctly? Maybe just give it to somebody else. I get in my head. And so, I mean, you're doing your job in telling me where I missed. So it's not I am working to separate uh business and marriage. I'm I'm getting better.

SPEAKER_03 2:30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:13

You are.

SPEAKER_06 2:30:13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:15

It's good. Yeah, you got more there? No, okay. Hard question.

unknown 2:30:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:24

What's the hardest part about being married to me?

SPEAKER_06 2:30:34

We're just so opposite. I am naturally quiet. My tone is quiet. And Josh's, he's you know, he's louder. His tone is he doesn't mean it, but he's passionate. Passionate. And that can be very challenging for me.

SPEAKER_02 2:30:56

Um we got into it about softball. Uh like it was like two weeks ago. I was, I don't know, I was yelling something. She like elf'd me and I'm like, The parents said and I'm like, what? She goes, she's like, take it. And I'm like, no, I'm not gonna take it easy. I'm like, this is more important to me than the Raiders. This is more important than the Warriors. I'm like, the the black widows are my team, and I am passionate. And she goes, Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:31:24

She just okay, yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:26

Yeah. Um, you you definitely you soften my edges. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:31:32

I've been noticing that lately.

SPEAKER_02 2:31:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:31:35

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:36

For what?

SPEAKER_06 2:31:37

Softening the edges. Oh, got it.

SPEAKER_05 2:31:40

I I got something there that I kind of drew a little bit um earlier about big feelings. Um because you were saying, I'm just a big feelings person. And I had this like epiphany that I have a feeling that, you know, people like Josh that, you know, might seem like they don't have those big feelings because they are, you know, maybe more analytical in some ways, or they show up in a different way than you and I do. Cause I'm I'm a big feelings guy too. I I feel like our our crust is a little bit thinner than their crust. And so our our our gooey part ends up coming quicker than they their gooey part comes out. But I think that what happens is that they have so many big feelings inside, but they also their crust is so well built. Like they just have so many different tools, so many different like language, they have experience, they have all of those things. They end up already analyzing the gooey and they're like, okay, in order to protect this, because they care so much about those big feelings, they use that crust to show up and be like, listen, I'm gonna be an advocate for all of this that I'm feeling. They're just not letting the gooey stuff come out. Where you and I do, I think, where we're like, oh man, like I just don't know how to say this, but I love you. And here's a hug. Yeah. Right. And they have the those tools, I feel like to be able to say that. And so I'm I'm starting to shift that perspective on like, yeah, the people that I know that show up, like Josh does, where it's like, you know, bigger and louder and stronger and straight to the point, is because they care so much about us.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:14

So yeah, no doubt in my mind, this guy has he does have big feelings and he cares more than anybody I know. Like, just care a lot about people and about our family.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 2:33:28

It's super cool.

SPEAKER_05 2:33:29

He's just not mushy like we are. Which is yeah, it's in there. I'm sure you see that side. I know you see that side, and it's in there. And so I just, yeah, I just have that little epiphany there. So super cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:33:41

By the time this air, uh, Brianna, you and I will celebrate our 21st year of marriage on May 25th, uh, 2026, coming up in just a couple weeks. Uh, I re recently uh revised my B HAG that I shared. In the leadership series. So in session five or session six, we talk about the pursuit of greatness and we identify BHAGs personally and professionally. And I just upgraded mine that uh I my BHAG is to celebrate 70 years of marriage with you, uh, which means a few things, right? Means I first and foremost need to live to be 91 years old, which so that informs some habits and some systems and um in the longevity uh theme, right? And then it means I need to stay married to you. Yes. So uh one of the lines that uh like to say is I know what got me here won't get me there, right? I like whatever the things that we've overcome and endured and learned and uh experienced from year zero to year 21 probably aren't gonna be the same things that are gonna get us from 21 to 70. Yeah. I don't know all that's gonna be required. I don't know everything that's gonna be in our path, but that is the long-term trajectory that I want to be on. That's the target that I want to have in mind. Uh, and I just want to say that I love you a lot. And I'm super appreciative of the way that the ways that you show up to me and uh double click on the fact that what we said last time, that it's taken a lot of grace, a lot of forgiveness, a lot of compassion. Um, you've been the person leading that probably more than I have. Uh, and I'm just really, really grateful for who you are.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:32

Thank you. I love you.

SPEAKER_02 2:35:34

I love you too.

SPEAKER_06 2:35:35

Wouldn't want to do life without you.

SPEAKER_05 2:35:37

There's the gooey side. Love it. Um yeah, real quick, Bihag. Can you explain that?

SPEAKER_02 2:35:47

A big, hairy, audacious goal. So, you know, shoot for the stars, land on the moon. Some people say that backwards. It's a strong um from an astronomy perspective, would be wrong to say shoot for the moon and hit a star. Star is way further away, right? So shoot for the stars, land on the moon. Um, but yeah, a big, hairy, audacious goal, something I want to be in pursuit of. And then I do not rise to the level of my goal, I fall to the level of my system. So when I keep that idea of achieving 70 years of marriage in mind, it's the reason I do 10 burpees when I get out of bed in the morning because I need to be physically fit to make it to 91. It's the reason I take a cold shower every day. It's the reason Brianna and I have a non-negotiable overnight date once a month. It's the reason Brianna and I go on vacation all the time. It's the reason Brianna and I pass a journal back and forth to each other where we do handwritten notes uh probably every two to four weeks or so. We just hide it in different places. And it's the reason that we do a lot of the things that we do, it's all informed by that long-term trajectory of that big, hairy, audacious goal. I want to celebrate 70 years of marriage. I want healthy, connected, adult relationships with my daughters. Right? I want to be a great husband, a great dad. Those are those are just the the things that inform how I show up.

SPEAKER_01 2:37:17

It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 2:37:18

Wow. It's good. Thank you for coming back. Thank you for round two. You're the first guest to get a round two interview. Yeah. So glad that you were here. Uh team, we are in the window now where we don't have to record outros, right? We know that uh we are recording the leadership and podcast. Thank you for listening today to me, Patrick, and Brianna. Let's all go shine bright.