Episode 07: Leadership AND...Sarah Failla

Leadership isn't just about the version of you that shows up in the boardroom.

It's also about the five-year-old who learned to stay quiet.
The teenager who decided vulnerability wasn't safe.
The part of you that craves connection.
The part that's terrified of rejection.

Whether we realize it or not, every version of ourselves comes into every conversation, every conflict, every decision, and every relationship.

In this deeply personal conversation, executive coach Sarah Failla joins Josh and Patrick to explore Internal Family Systems (IFS), paradox, trauma, coaching, nervous systems, and why becoming a better leader starts with understanding yourself.

Along the way, the conversation moves far beyond leadership into marriage, parenting, personal growth, healing, purpose, and even Sarah's remarkable kidney transplant story.

If you've ever wondered why you react the way you do (or why growth can feel so difficult), this episode offers language, compassion, and practical ways to move forward.

In This Episode
* How childhood experiences quietly shape your leadership today
* The surprising difference between therapy, coaching, and consulting
* How your nervous system affects every difficult conversation
* Tips for recognizing when you're operating from an old wound instead of your present self
* The power of saying "part of me feels..." instead of "I am..."
* Paradox can create freedom instead of confusion ("both can be true")
* How emotional regulation transforms marriages, parenting, and teams
* The hidden cost of ignoring your body
* Sarah's powerful kidney transplant journey and what it taught her about surrender, healing, and receiving help
* Why joy is often harder to experience than grief
* How identity, not goals, is what creates lasting change

Resources Mentioned:
* No Bad Parts by Richard C. Schwartz - https://ifs-institute.com/nobadparts
* Positive Intelligence by Shirzad Chamine - https://positiveintelligence.com/
* CliftonStrengths - https://www.gallup.com/cliftonstrengths/en/403127/cliftonstrengths-34-report.aspx
* Myers-Briggs Assessments - https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/
* Atomic Habits by James Clear - https://jamesclear.com/atomic-habits

Timestamps

00:00 — Why "AND" changes the way we think about leadership
02:00 — Understanding paradox and how two things can be true at once
05:20 — Internal Family Systems explained: the "parts" inside all of us
13:40 — Trauma, younger selves, and why our reactions make sense
24:30 — Executive coaching that focuses on the whole person
29:00 — What somatic coaching is and why your body "remembers"
34:00 — Creating healthier conversations in teams and families
39:00 — Expanding your "window of tolerance"
43:30 — Therapy vs. coaching: what's the difference?
52:00 — Celebrating the men who are quietly doing the work
01:24:00 — Sarah's kidney transplant story and what healing really looked like
01:40:00 — Surrendering outcomes while still pursuing growth
01:57:00 — Joy, identity, and becoming who you want to be
02:16:00 — Why Lighthouse coaching works differently

About Lighthouse Institute

Lighthouse Institute exists to shine light that ignites connection, inspires hope, and transforms generations.

Through leadership development, coaching, facilitation, and organizational training, Lighthouse helps individuals and teams grow in self-awareness, communication, trust, ownership, and leadership effectiveness.

The Leadership, And... podcast explores leadership through the lens of real life: work, parenting, marriage, conflict, purpose, growth, and everything in between.

👉 SUBSCRIBE for more conversations about leadership, parenting, relationships, conflict, growth, and the human side of leadership.

👉 SHARE this episode with someone who's doing the work of becoming a better human and a better leader.

Let's Go Shine Bright ✨

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Most importantly, leadership is relational and it's human. And then we'll hear, yeah, but. Because we're kind of obsessed with that word, but. Right. I hear you, but. I love you, but. I'm sorry, but thank you, but you're doing good, but.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

But just delete everything that was just said. So we really need the word and. I hear you and. I love you and I'm sorry and thank you and you're doing good.

SPEAKER_01 0:36

And I'm Josh Donovan with Lighthouse Institute. And I'm Patrick Upira with Lighthouse Media. And we're excited to dive into leadership through real conversations. It's all on the table.

SPEAKER_05 0:52

Work, parenting, marriage, conflict, friendship, personal growth. Because wherever you go, there you are. Leading yourself and leading others. So really, this is leadership and everything else. All right, another episode of Leadership and. And we have Sarah Fela joining us today, which this will be the first time we have a fellow podcast host here joining us. So maybe you'll be hosting, maybe we'll be hosting. I don't know. We haven't talked a lot about the title Leadership And. We have in other episodes talked about the idea of paradox and how most things in life, at least from my perspective, are paradox. And the best way to live in the tension of a paradox is that three-letter magical word, and. And I know Sarah's podcast is titled Paradox and Parts. Yes. And so you're going to be a great person to help us unpack this idea of paradox and what it means and why we would pick something like leadership and why do you pick something like paradox and parts?

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yeah. So, hello. Hi. Glad to be here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:07

Stoked you're here.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

Yeah. Um, so I titled my podcast Paradox and Parts because understanding paradox changed my life. Growing up in such a black and white, this or this, right or wrong, good or bad. It wasn't, I think, until my late 30s that I kind of realized what paradox was and that two things could be true at the same time. Um, and in that it was also uh from a spiritual director who I know you know as well, Josh.

SPEAKER_07 2:32

Um Katie.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Yeah, you know, just really helping us understand what it's like to be a human. And in that, the paradox and understanding that two things can be true at the same time also helped with so much shame that we hide or that we we have inside. And so embracing that just left a whole new lease on life. Um also growing up in a very, you know, religious upbringing, you have a lot that that played into it as well, and so being able to embrace all of ourselves and stop judging um was a huge key piece to that. So yeah, so that's the paradox part.

SPEAKER_07 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

And then parts for me is also um internally internal family systems. So I'm a certified um practitioner with IFS. And understanding the parts of ourselves that make up who we are, it's just so fascinating. Like, I love when we get to like understand and know ourselves because then we can have compassion and grace and realize everything we do, even the things that frustrate us, there's a positive intent behind us, even if it's not like reaping the rewards that we want, or it's not showing up in a right way, and when we can kind of backtrack and be like, oh, I thought this action would get me that. And always, I guess this is another thing, having grace on our younger selves for what he or she didn't know. And being like they were doing the best they could at the time.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

And yes, we we were doing the best we could. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Or even yesterday, doing our younger self.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

That previous version of myself 48 hours ago. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

Yeah, yeah. But when we can look back and kind of see the bigger picture and have grace, I think that's that's so huge. So, yeah, Paradox and Parts, and then the subtitles Embracing All of You.

SPEAKER_05 4:08

Embracing All of You. Man, already so much to just pull on right there. So, okay, uh what's interesting, you talked about even some of the things that frustrate you being able to kind of reverse engineer some of those into like identifying parts. That actually came up already with your husband, uh, Chris Pela. And so that's an important piece about you, right? Like you are you are the other husband-wife duo on the Lighthouse team, yeah. Right. So Brianna and I, and then um you and Chris. Yep. And so he was talking a little bit about that from the lens of the why process and that you know, some of your where a man's wound is, there also is his genius, that whole idea. Tell us more about this internal family systems, because this is a fascinating area to even think, and just that whole part of me language. That's for the leadership series, we we don't get to it often until very late when we're talking about conflict, right? And we even just offer the language a lot of people know what I call therapy counseling language of when you, I or I feel when you and I like, right? And so it's like, oh, just even shifting that to part of me, part of me feels like this, or part of me feels like that. But that that language piece really comes from a deeper foundation of the internal family systems idea, which you introduced me to. So tell us about it.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

Yeah. Um, I mean, there's so much. I know. It's so good. Um, and even just picking up on the thing that you initially said in communicating with somebody, like how like abrasive is it if it's like, I'm so mad at you, right? Or like, you know, versus a part of me is like really mad at you. Even that can just like soften someone's energetics. Yeah. Because it is all of you mad at this person? You might think you are, but you're also like, no, actually, I love them and I know this and I know that. And I don't want to deny the fact that I'm mad about this.

SPEAKER_07 5:59

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

So I think it allows us to show up honestly. So to backtrack, so um, internal family systems, um, Richard Schwartz, he's got a few books out there that we can put in the show notes or whatever, I'm sure. Um, essentially, it's like if you think about family therapy, you'd bring in all the members of the family and you'd sit down and everyone would have a conversation, bring something to the table. Essentially, internal family systems is the the concept, the theory that inside of us we also have a family all sitting at the table, different parts of us that have different desires, different goals. On the one hand, you could just say, like a simple way is like part of me wants pizza tonight, and part of me wants Mexican food, right? That's like a simplest version of it. Part of me wants to get married, part of me doesn't. Bigger version. Part of me wants to move, part of me doesn't. Part of me wants kids. Wants kids. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 6:49

Part of me does not.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

So but then we think, yeah. So we think of that, and it makes sense when we can say it out loud, but inside what often happens is we don't even realize we're at war with ourselves. Um, and that's also even a part of coaching, is often we can't like deal with our brain in our brain, like our thoughts. So getting things out on paper. So even with IFS, getting out in with a coach or in a room, like, okay, here's the part of me that wants this. Okay, what's the value that that part is holding on to that it's afraid potentially you're gonna lose? Like maybe this part really values freedom, and this part's like, no, I want to lock down and I want to buy a house and I want to live in this place. Okay, this part's valuing stability, and maybe like the family legacy. What do you do when those parts are about wins? Yeah, and then you feel kind of crazy inside, I often say. But realizing they both have positive intent, how do we give a voice to that? And this is different than like schizophrenia, like we're not talking about that. This is a different level. So that's there's so many ways that this plays out. Wanting to get fit, wanting to, you know, make more money, wanting to have a conversation with your boss. Part of you's like, do it, part of you're scared, part of you like it comes up so much. And when you can identify these parts, often they're younger versions of us that took over a role for us because we didn't know how to like handle it ourselves in that moment. Like our younger version maybe didn't have the resources, didn't have the support. So maybe you got made fun of when you were in first grade. So there's a part of you that's like, I will never be vulnerable like this. So then you become tough, right? So then, but then that toughness, maybe you're 33 and you're married, and you're like, well, why can't I be like vulnerable here? Compassionate. Compassionate. It's because that part sometimes needs to be updated. So it kind of blends with um inner child work. I don't know if people have heard of that. So if you talk about inner child work, I don't love the phrase inner child sometimes because it's not always our inner child, like like we just said earlier.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

It could be your 30-year-old who went through a divorce and now you're like trying to date again and you're just like so operating from that survival mindset mode when you're not there anymore. There's it's interesting, there's I don't know exactly where to go. Okay, I'll go here first. Yeah, because you mentioned Richard Swartz Schwartz, want to say that right. And one of the the title of his book is actually like, whoa, really? And so I want to I want to name this, which is the title is No Bad Parts. Yeah. And just expand on that. Like the because I think already, even as I hear, you know, as I process this the first time, I would kind of villainize some of my parts. Sure. And then other parts, like, well, oh, this is the good part of me, and this is the bad. But but really he's saying no bad parts, like every part inside of us is good, honorable, like wants the best for us. Yes. Right? Good intentions is the way you said it.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah, yeah. It's a mixed bag, huh? It's a hurrah.

SPEAKER_05 9:42

Oh fuck. And so what I'm hearing you on the inner child piece is interesting because I feel like there's an overlay with positive intelligence, the the PQ work of uh Shirzad Shamin that we use in the leadership series, what that talks about sage, uh judge voices, right, on our shoulders. But then there's that expansion in the judge of the nine different saboteurs that that come, you know, with their voices. And that actually is a framing that's a little more on like that negative side, that they're coming from that survival function, and your brain's not really serving you when that call it part or voice is leading. Integrate those for us, the whole like kind of like no parts idea, but like there's also times where our our our mind, our nervous system is not really serving us in the best way. How do you how do you unpack that?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah, so without going too crazy into how they called it, you know, like you have your firefighter parts, your manager parts, they have all this language, which I feel like can just be really confusing sometimes. Essentially, you have certain parts that when you get so close to like a wound, say, like, say there's a part of you that this part is protecting, like that five-year-old who got around hell, dice I said when you know got made fun of on the playground. When something starts to trigger that memory or that that same feeling inside, there are certain parts that will at no cost stop that part from being exposed. And those are what we would call, you know, when it's like addiction, suicide, like not like there's a lot more heavy stuff that can come into there because they are like at all costs, I don't care. I'm committed to protecting that. So, in that, if we can see the positive intent now is protection. Yes, protection, survival. Is the outcome positive? Yeah, not necessarily. Like you might blow up your life, you might do some really things that you're gonna have trouble with down the road. But if we can understand that intent and parts work isn't like you just go in and you change everything, you know. Sometimes I think we have like a mindset shift like this. It's really getting to know and understand because those parts you can kind of like update them to where you are in time and space today. Hey, I'm an adult now. Hey, it's okay. Like I can handle it if someone laughs at me or whatever might happen. And this is like a really, you know, trite thing they get, but it's actually not trite. I take that back. Like to be made fun of at that age can be really impactful for a lot of people. So I take that back.

SPEAKER_04 11:56

Um that's allowed, by the way. You can take that back, you can delete it.

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Yeah, can I go to the back of the phone? And that's minimizing, right? Well, and that's what we talk about when we talk about because I'm also trauma-informed. We're just going all over the place.

SPEAKER_04 12:07

So it's important, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, because we have like big T traumas and little T traumas, like big T trauma, like sexual abuse, war, famine, those kind of things, little T traumas, more like maybe being made fun of. But actually, it really is dependent on your nervous system. What is a big T trauma and what's a little T trauma? So you something happening without you know an empathetic witness, like there's no one there to be with you, it can lock into you as a big T trauma, and we're all different too, and that's why we can't judge. That's why I quickly was like, oh, well, that wasn't maybe that's not a big thing, but I don't know. Because for that person, that could have been the most awful thing that they ever experienced at that age for just because of their makeup. Right.

SPEAKER_05 12:48

I imagine there's range there, right? So like someone who's experienced, call it legit big T trauma, right? They're gonna have this range that of trauma that that's here. Yeah. And someone else who hasn't experienced that, their little T trauma is going to feel very big T to them. That's the most traumatic thing they've experienced.

SPEAKER_10 13:06

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 13:06

Yeah, it's almost similar to what we say when we talk about trust, where we're like, hey, like deposits and withdrawals are not the same for everybody, right? Exactly. Trauma's not experienced the same by everyone. So sure, I can look at someone, I've I've had dealt with some stuff in my life, right? And so like I can look at people and go, trauma? Really? But that's judgment, right? Right. Versus just letting that experience be their experience, be curious about that. Like, tell me more, what's going on? You know, where's this coming from? Or a question that I've, you know, the Fela is using uh what version of you is processing this right now? Like, how old are you right now? Yeah, you know, that's a really interesting question.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Yeah, it's the best question. I'll give an example of that. So uh Chris and I were out for a walk, and this was a couple years ago, and we were talking about budgeting, and I was the one that brought it up. Like, because I was like wanting to save for some other things, and we were having this conversation, and he could obviously feel me getting a little, I can be a little intense sometimes. Maybe, maybe, and um he just looked at me and he's like, How old do you feel like you are right now? But and it wasn't like a judgmental way. You could take it that way, you could ask it one way or another, but I also knew it was my thing. Tone manager, yeah. Um tone. Um, and I my immediate response was five. Because it was my five-year-old not wanting to be controlled, feeling so controlled in so many ways. And this for me is a pattern that can come up. I was the one wanting to set the budget. Chris wasn't even bringing this up. Right. Because I was wanting to have some more structure so we could do some other things with our money. Here, it comes up with me with like when it comes to like how I eat sometimes. Like, I'll be like, hey, I want to do better, and then I'm like, by better, healthier. And then, but there's this part of me that's like, you're not gonna control me. Don't tell me what to do. And it stems from it's not really alive as much anymore, but younger I felt very controlled. Very like, you have to act this way, you have to dress this way, you have to do this. So it was that little rebel part of me just kind of being like, Fuck you, you're not gonna tell me. And it was me wanting to do it. So, but when we can understand that, and when our partners can understand, because we're not just married to our partner current day, we're married to every version of them along the way. And can we have grace and compassion to understand when my little girl's triggered? Can I understand when Chris is like little boys triggered and everywhere in between, or maybe it's the teenager version? And so I think, yeah, understanding people like I love the inner worlds of people, and you know, that's why one of my kids says it's not that deep, but I make everything deep because I just think people are so fascinating. Yeah, and it's so beautiful to understand ourselves and to know ourselves, and then we can actually show up in relationship differently, or even be honest. Hey, a part of me is feeling triggered right now. This isn't about you, so then my husband can like take a breath, and and then I can also take the ownership and responsibility, and it doesn't mean we excuse everything because we have these things, it just means we understand that there's more at play, but yes, we still show up, do the work, do what you gotta do.

SPEAKER_03 16:00

I love that. And and the value that that brings when you're actually understanding that other person in front of you, that it's not just you know, Chris at this age, is like Chris in all these stages, like that has to be so powerful and being able to communicate with him in a manner that I mean, even him, like having that, you know, like that thought of like, hey, how old do you think you are right now? Because if I'm if I'm speaking to my wife right now, it's different than the way that I'm gonna speak to five-year-old Sarah. So we need to like rebalance this right here. This conversation has to be taken in a different level, right? And so just having that awareness of like, okay, I am talking to this part of you right now. You use different language, different body language, different everything, different tone.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

Um, so that's so powerful. How cool is that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Or be like, I need to come back when I'm regulated. I think that's a great thing, right? Like I'm feeling myself triggered right now. Some part of me is activated. I'm gonna go. But I think, and also depending on your partner, it can be really important to know, okay, I'll be back in five minutes, I'll be back in 20 minutes. Because then you could also, if your partner has abandonment issues, you taking five minutes.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

This came up in our conversation with Brianna. Okay, I haven't heard this. Well, yeah, it was all about like needing to take a break in a in a challenging conversation. And early in our relationship, I used to literally freak out because and I I always make the joke. I would hear Ross and Rachel, we need a break. Right. Like, and so I would just have I would spiral, I'd have this negative story. And it was really through the MBTI like resource pages and learning about how I navigate conflict versus her that we were able to get to that time container idea so that she can, in expressing that she needs the break, tell me what kind of break she needs. Yeah. And that'll calm me and and put me in the mindset, heart set of like, okay, this will be more conducive to the goal. So let her take the break, don't spin out. You know, you know you're good, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah, but that's very valid, right? Like, and so I think that's where understanding each other and having these conversations outside of arguments or whatever when somebody's triggered, it just is so helpful. And I think all of these tools, they could end up boxing you in, you know, like strengths and MBTI and human design and all the different things that there are out there. They're beautiful until you find yourself using them as an excuse.

SPEAKER_05 18:10

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

And you're in this box.

SPEAKER_05 18:12

Well, I can't because I like I'm just an ENTP. Right. Yeah, no, not okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

It doesn't get to work that way. And it gets to just help you understand your partner, right? And so Chris and I, we've all strengths finder. It's been in our world for like 15 years. He got certified with Galp, we use it with our kids. We used to do it with premarital counseling for people, and um, it helps to triangle in its strength sometimes. It's like that three, instead of just me and you, it's like, hey, my harmony, because I've harmony in my top five, is really feeling just like not okay right now. Can I just have a minute? And it kind of helps you understand their strengths. It just gives you more language to understand the person that you you care about.

SPEAKER_05 18:49

Yeah. Something came up. Uh, we've been spending, Patrick and I have been spending a little more time on the internet, like Instagram, Facebook, you know, just we're we're through Lighthouse Media kind of pumping up. Interesting place. We're getting ready to launch the podcast. So I've been I've been encountering more memes and reels and you know, gifts. Do you guys call them gifts? I say gifs. Gifts. Yeah, yeah. I think it's a gif, but I say gifts. And I say gif. Oh, that's a big debate, right? I don't know. Well, anyways, been seeing a lot of them, and two were coming to mind when you were talking. The first was this one that's like, um, my wife, you know, lead, make decisions, take charge. Also, my wife, don't tell me what to do. Right? It's like that whole like paradox.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Like, it's like, what do you want, woman?

SPEAKER_05 19:34

Parts of me, right? That just was coming to mind when you were talking. And then there was another one, and it was a little more of that like heartfelt, you know, soft music playing. It's like, you know, I asked my my grandpa, had been married for 50 years or something like that, and it's what's the secret? And you know, the wise grandpa says basically the secret is like you have to learn to fall in love with every different version of her. Like, you don't pick one person and and stay married to that person. You pick that person over and over in the different versions of themselves as they continue to redefine, re-explore, rediscover, yeah, right, and that they change all the time. And you know, I'm only at 21 years this year, but like I think about that and go, gosh, the the we are completely different versions of ourselves today than we were at 20 or 30, and that will continue to evolve. And so if you're really talking about, we did talk with Brianna about what's the secret to marriage. You know, we talked about grace and compromise and those kinds, and those are important, but I also think it's just a willingness to to choose each other and say, you know what, this you've shifted a little and this version's different, and I'm gonna find a way to fall in love with this one too. Um, so that I don't know. Yeah, as you were talking about the parts and the shifts that was that was showing up from and that was just another Instagram reel. Right? Yeah, wisdom from Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Yeah, yeah. There is some nuggets in there. Yeah, um one more thing I wanted to point out. Um, we were talking also about uh through the lens of MBTI, like personalities, and how uh, you know, people say that can it change? Can your personality change over time? And or is that that's just a behavior that is actually changing? And so you mentioned something earlier that I was like, oh, that's so um, that's such a paradox, right? Like if that little kid, that little boy had in his heart to be like super open and vulnerable, and then that traumatic event, and I think you mentioned it on that conversation that there are exclusions to like when a personality actually does change and not just behavior, and it could be triggered by those traumas, right? And so I thought it was just so such a great example of like how not knowing, you know, like those little kids around him, not knowing what the impact that that can have on that little kid can change somebody's almost like DNA, if you will, like on how they show up in the world. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:51

And if we think about like how we show up to our world, it creates the world that we experience. So in that, at that moment, maybe you know, every Like maybe he showed up a little bit smaller, a little bit more cautious, or may other way too, maybe more like fighty and combative. And so then you look at like day after day after day of that, those little shifts, then w the feedback you're getting from the world is based on the actions you're giving to the world, and then yeah, it's a it's it's just so interesting.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

A feedback loop, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah. And oh go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

No, no, no, no, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 22:24

Yeah. I also want to say, I think in this world, because I've been in personal development for so long, I just want to like say for everyone listening as well yes, there's trauma, yes, things happen, and we're also forged through that, and resilience is made. I think depending on where you're at on the spectrum, and I think we're all in different seasons, right? So maybe you're in a season where you are more introspective and you're really doing that deep inner work, or maybe you're on a season where you're like building your tough muscle that I'm gonna show up and do what I say I'm gonna do, I don't care how I feel. I think there gets to be a balance in there, but also like it all gets to exist. So I think that's I don't know if that makes sense, but I just think I've seen both sides where I'm like, if the whole point is you're just in essentially navel gazing and like looking in and trying to figure out all your traumas, that can actually be a trauma response.

SPEAKER_06 23:09

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Because you can end up like just recycling that versus okay, where is actually shift and how is this like in my life? So I think it's both. Like, let's do the work, which is why I love the inner work, right? And the somatic work, and we haven't even gotten into that, but like, and then also the mindset, because they're both important, right? Unless you just want to go live by yourself somewhere and be fine if you want to be in the world.

SPEAKER_05 23:32

And what you're taught what you're yeah, what you're describing, I think beautifully encompasses our leadership series participants because you know, you get a room of 14 people coming in that are coming from all different phases of their personal journey, also their professional journey. Some are in that camp, they're like ready to really go introspective, deep reflection. Others are looking to perform, strengthen the muscle, you know. And so it's anywhere in between. And then having the opportunity then to kind of wrestle with that personal growth together in that experience. The origin story gives people a real opportunity to go back and and look at those those highs, lows, uh, which I I I can hear, I can hear both sides of the paradox played back when people have gotten through the origin story process, right? You can hear where it's like this deep awareness over here, and then it's like, oh, okay, yeah, that was cool to look in the rear view, and I'm gonna focus on the windshield. Yeah. Uh so it's it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, it's so good.

SPEAKER_05 24:36

Okay, you've mentioned a few things already about coaching. And so I think I definitely want to dive into coaching. You already mentioned internal family systems, trauma-informed, mentioned a little bit about Gallup, the Clifton strengths, uh, you just mentioned somatic technique, right? Um, so as a container, we'll just say coaching. Yeah. In the lighthouse world, we call it executive coaching mostly because we're we're in that corporate training world. Uh I think most people who engage with executive coaching realize there's not a whole lot of like actual executive, right? Like right.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

In a sense, like I don't know your job better than you. But I can help you operate your job better. Not better than them, but like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

Yeah, yeah. And like, you know, I tell you, I I don't know, I don't even know what you do. Like, or I'm not there in the day-to-day of your actual job, right? But we we coach the human. Yeah. Um, and I think really, really, we're doing life coaching disguised as executive coaching, yeah, which is kind of fun and beautiful. Uh you're a phenomenal coach, and you are doing a ton of coaching for us in the lighthouse world. Yeah. You also coach outside of the lighthouse world, and you have your own clients, and um, I know you've done a lot of certifications and programs that you're a part of. So I we want to know more about Sarah Fela's coaching.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

Yeah, all of it.

SPEAKER_05 25:55

That's a lot, that's a broad category. I'm like, okay, where do we start?

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Well, first I want to say I love working for a lighthouse because it's the whole person. And even when I've had conversations with you, Josh, like, is it okay if I he's like, you're like, do whatever you want, Sarah? Like you are coaching the whole human and you continue reiterating that and the freedom in that and the trust in that.

SPEAKER_05 26:15

That will be you asking me, like, hey, this came up in coaching. Is this okay? And I'm like, Yeah, listen, you set the container in coaching, and it's their journey. If they're bringing something to you, they're telling you it's okay. Yeah. So yes, stay.

SPEAKER_00 26:29

But I think it was under the guise, like, do I have to what's an executive coach? And do I only need to do your mindset and your thoughts? And do I need to like make sure we're and I think that and I have a range of that. So even within Lighthouse, if we just start there, some clients it's very more it's very practical. It's like, okay, what are you doing? Where's the gaps? How do we do it? And it's me holding them accountable. Um, okay, why aren't you doing this? What does that look like? And even having something to follow up on, right? It's like I was a weight loss coach for like 10 years, and I have a coach right now. It's just because you know it doesn't mean that you can execute it. And asking for support as an independent face can be difficult, but it's just so powerful to have somebody else share that space, hold that space for you. So that might be a more in this bucket. But then I also have people who it's like we're going deep and we're doing this stuff. And why are you afraid to have the conversation with your boss? Like, what's wrong? Why aren't you able to have these relationships go the way that you want? Like, where do you need to take ownership? Where do you need to look in the mirror? And where do you need some healing? Like, where do you need to actually pause and be like, oh, this is what's going on here? Or this is the fear that's being triggered. Um, and then I also want to say, in the coaching the women that I do, I feel like I do have a unique position as a woman. One of my first questions is when was the last time you had your hormones checked? And I don't say that in like, oh, the hormones of women, but like it really is a thing that plays into life. And I think if people could truly understand sometimes in that midlife, you know, perimenopause, which starts way earlier than a lot of people think, there's a lot going on inside the women around you that you might not realize. And often it can sound like, I don't feel like myself, or I don't know why, like I have brain frog, or I don't know what's going on here. And so, but they're still showing up and doing their job, right? You're still showing up. And so I love that I have that as a woman. I mean, sure you could say it, but you need to caveat it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

Oh, yeah, lots of asterisks on that one.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

But it's it's so important. So, and with some of my clients, like health is always a part of it. And I think that's even in my own coaching, I feel like you can't take one piece out. Sure, you can like focus on it, but we have to understand the system, which is why I often start with a new client with a life wheel. Okay, what are all the pieces that are important to you? If one area were to move just one or two, how would that impact the other areas? Um, because it's all connected, because we're we're not just a brain or a worker or a mom or a dad or like a whatever those pieces are. So in Lighthouse, it does all that. And I've had some clients where we have our session at home and I walk them through like an anger release program or like a not program, like a call, or you know, just do a lot more somatic work, or where they we know we're gonna go in and touch on some inner child stuff, and you don't want to go to an executive meeting like right after that, or you don't want to go, you know, you need to you need to kind of have yourself together. For sure.

SPEAKER_05 29:14

Define somatic for us just for people who won't have context for that.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

So somatic just means the body. Yeah. Like how do we get into the body? How do we store things in the body? So it's the mindset, but it's also like things that are stored. You think of an animal after you know, trauma, you'll see an animal shaking. As a human, sometimes there's things that we need to shake. And it's not just for the craziness of it, but it's truly just letting your the wisdom of your body speak. And you can even notice, like, you know, in in a session, it's like, okay, if I have someone drop into their body and maybe they're struggling to, you know, have a hard conversation, I'll be like, okay, what do you notice in your body? And they might be like, yeah, I just feel like tightness here. Okay, well, throw. I mean, if you're having trouble speaking. And so we can go in and say, okay, like what do you notice? Like, is there a color? Is there a shape? Is there what is that? And as we kind of go into that, it also our body has messages for us. So it's like, okay, what is the message of this? And maybe the message is I I don't want to get fired. Like, I'm scared if I confront this person, I might lose my job. Okay, that's valid. And so, but in that, how do we kind of like move that energy that's stored in different places in our body? Sometimes that might be your hands or head anywhere, jaw as often you can tell when someone's jaw is tight because they're just like clenching, relaxing that and allowing the space so then you can also lead. This goes back to IFS, lead from self, right? So we talked about all these parts, and it's it's more like I don't this sounds bad to call parts this, but just for our analogy, it's almost like you don't want a toddler running your life. Um, and so sometimes when these parts are it's like a run around, a toddler run around with a knife, like that's a dangerous situation. How do we kind of create space from these parts so that self, like current adult, you know, regulated self can lead? And I think that also comes into the body. Like we don't know, like, because you can walk into a meeting and like constrict, you're like, what is that? Well, there's wisdom there. So if we just ignore it, what are you maybe missing out? Maybe, you know, maybe it's a sign to kind of pause, maybe something's dangerous, but we can ignore these slight signals. And so the more freedom and space we have within our bodies, the more we're also able to tune in. It's like a whole other weapon of understanding in life that we're not even attuned to. Um, and also you can go into like a whole other range of things with that. It's like, okay, like that's a specific example of okay, someone's struggling, what's in your body, but even just like movement and allowing more movement in your body, like where do you find joy and pleasure and pain or grief? Like, where are things stored? Um, it all gets to be included. And so that's something really the last two years that I've really embarked on and put myself in a lot of containers that were stretchy, and but in that I've just found so much more freedom. And so I like to I like the word like somatic dignity. Like, how do I just like actually like hold myself in all ways mentally, but also just like in my body, like at the end of the day, I've got me.

SPEAKER_05 32:09

So there's yeah, there's this making sense. No, there's so much good stuff in there. I want to use that example you're talking about, you know, because the ability to process that in a container, like a coaching container with you. So someone to be able to sit there and say, like, something's coming up and I'm feeling it here, and uh, you know, in the throat and it's tight, like the ability to process that in a safe container where it's you know, it's happening, but you this the stakes are low, yeah, right, really increases that awareness and understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, probably strengthens their ability to regulate that when it happens in other environments.

SPEAKER_10 32:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

And I think this is really important because this I'm seeing this play out live time um with a couple of our clients. So you talk about like executive leadership meetings. So you're bringing your team in and you're having these are the these are the real conversations that an organization needs to have. They're wrestling with important stuff, right? And that you just said, you know, maybe you feel constriction in a meeting, and like that happens. I'm watching it. You know, there and then what happens is body language starts to be let's just call we'll just put a blanket over it as negative. Negative body language starts showing up in the room. Sarah's crossing her arms, leaning back, somebody's legs start shaking under the table, uh, pouty faces, right? It's all information and data. It's all there, and and what people will call, hey, what's going on? Uh hey, are you okay? Hey, there's some your your body, you know, what's going on? Instead of, hey, what is our body communicating? We don't have those kinds of questions in our arsenal right now, especially in that setting. And so me, what what I'm looking to push back on quite a bit, I'm trying to challenge the environment. And I'm trying, I'm working with a few executive teams where I'm saying, we have got to get out of this corporate executive room.

SPEAKER_08 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:02

You spent nine hours in there today. So I love that you started bringing up movement because that's one of the things I'm advocating for. Is I'm like, look, you're you all have your bodies locked up for nine hours. Yeah. All kinds of things are going on. There's no movement. We're we're we're not well rested, we're not eating right, we're not like so. This whole sound is a good thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah, your body is just like nothing.

SPEAKER_05 34:26

Yeah. And and so that's a conversation I'm having is how do we challenge the environment? Really get out of this kind of setting, more uh, more living room, more like big Airbnb shared space, like take shoes off, sit on the back patio, you know, play some games, see people like outside.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Be like, hi, who are you? Like, we're like friends outside of Lighthouse, like those moments are so key.

SPEAKER_05 34:52

Because you're going to be galvanizing your relational connection, which we know is the wire that trust is traveling on, and high performance and accountability, and all those things. And you're going to be learning more about what's going on in each other. What are the things that lock you up or create that can constriction, you know? And you'll be able to ask better questions in those moments than you good. Like that's literally like obviously I'm not, bro.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Hey, you good?

SPEAKER_05 35:19

What's going on?

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Like that's so like, yeah, that's immediately like defensive posture on the way back.

SPEAKER_05 35:26

Yeah. Which is funny. I'll make a connection to my family. The um Sarah and Chris did our family why session, right? So we got to have convers. And one of the things that came out, it's it's actually a core value statement for our fam now is check in versus check. And we would check each other, and it would be much like what I just said. And it'd be like, You good? Are you okay? What's up? And they're they're not great questions. Yeah. Right. And so we will just use the language now, hey, check in in.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

And that's so much like open.

SPEAKER_05 35:59

Yeah. Yeah. It's and it's it I would say Blakely's the best at it, the 11-year-old.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

And it's just she's she's the future owner of the lighthouse, correct?

SPEAKER_05 36:07

According to her, 100%. Yeah. But she she will just come up, and before it was triggering for me to hear the question, are you okay? I'd be like, because I'm I've I'm already hearing failure. Yeah. Um, right. Um, like, and so now the language is hey, checking in. And I'm like, oh, thanks, kiddo. Right. And like, but that's we got there by that time together and creating that shared language. So, anyways, I just feel like everything you were saying applies to the corporate environment in a really big way.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah. Well, and one of the things I've even heard, you know, my Chris is doing, because there's two Chris Fs. I'm like, is that your husband? I'm like, no, it's the other Chris F. Um doing one of his series right now that he's doing, they've been doing like off-site meetings and the depth. Like, I don't obviously it's confidential, but just from his like what he has told me of just how close they feel and the depth has been incredible with this group and how they're able just to see each other, right?

SPEAKER_05 37:04

Because it's And some some people might hear what you're saying and go, oh, off-site, like at a hotel conference room. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

They are going to be massive Airbnb cabins in the mountains. And then they snowboard the next day.

SPEAKER_05 37:15

And it's been it's been fascinating. Yeah. They challenged our environment. I was going to say, yeah. They were the ones who said, Can we do the leadership series this way? Yeah. And we were all in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Well, but but in my first deliberative, like one of my strengths was like, that just sounds like a mess potentially waiting to happen. Like as HR. I was like, how does that work? You know, so there's both sides of it, but it's like, are we willing to play and try? Yeah. One thing I want to say, kind of with our other conversation, um, of all the parts and in the room and the like checking versus check-in and all of that, is the goal of a lot of the somatic work and the and the mindset work and the whole Lighthouse series, it's you can, you know, what I like to call like your window of tolerance. So I often talk to my coaching clients about this. It's so if you think about your nervous system, we all kind of have like a set capacity where we're regulated. Like I'm within here. This is my window, I'm fine. You know, you get maybe towards the edges of either the top or the bottom, and that's when you might start noticing, oh, leg, leg doing this, that doing that, or somebody kind of withdrawing, right? So you have hyper aroused above the window of tolerance, and you have hypo, right? So hyper, you know, somebody might be yelling or they might leave the situation, their leg might be going crazy. Hypo, I don't know, in a meeting, it's maybe they're checked out, their body language. Um, you know, in real life, for me, hypo sometimes is like, Sarah, have you just been on your phone for like 30 minutes? Like, what are you doing? Like, not that that's inherently wrong, but I know when I'm like checked out on my phone and it's just me like just kind of this. So, what we're doing with all of the work that we do and all these tools, it's like you can expand that window of tolerance. So you can increase it. So, like what used to set you off at here, now you have the capacity to hold it. I can have that hard conversation because I know that I'm good. But often that comes through actually doing it in real life, right? So you can like, it's like the dojo, you can practice it, you can do it all the time. But then going out and experiencing, okay, I did it, I'm safe, I didn't die, right? Our primal primitive brain is like, am I safe? Am I gonna die? I'm gonna get eaten by a bear. And then you continue to expand. So I think that's also even in with the body, I feel like that's also the range of emotion. Like, can I let myself feel the joy?

unknown 39:24

Right.

SPEAKER_00 39:24

I feel like that's often one of my coaches says that he believes that's one of the most under underfelt emotions. He's like, We'll stay in our grief or in our anger, like, but like, can we actually also stay in joy? Can we stay in the high? Because often we a lot of us have thoughts. When am I, you know, like, oh, something's gonna, what's, what's gonna happen?

SPEAKER_06 39:40

Can't get the shoe gonna drop when's the shoe gonna drop.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

So all of these practices are just expanding our range as a human and our ability to hold more and stay regulated, right? It's not that we're gonna get dysregulated, you know, Chris's stress book and all of that, because then you're just flatlined and you're dead. But it's like, how can I get just right? How can I get back to center? Okay, yeah. Oh, quicker back to center. Oh, caught that in real time. Oh, my leg's going. Do I need to have a conversation? Do I need to ask for a break? Or as a leader, you're looking around the room and you're like, they're out. Like, let's take a five-minute break.

SPEAKER_06 40:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Um, so I just I feel like the nervous system is a huge key in understanding that and reading ourselves.

SPEAKER_05 40:16

And when we take that five minute break, let's not corner that person and say, Are you good?

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I think in that, it's like it's on us and like understanding ourselves to know what to ask for in those minutes. To actually be able to say, I'm good right now. Um, I just need to go for a walk.

SPEAKER_06 40:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:33

Versus, you know, feeling but then in that you get triggered, right? Is it an authority thing?

SPEAKER_06 40:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 40:37

Sorry, my nose is running. Like, is it an authority thing that oh it's I have to answer because it's Josh or it's whatever, versus do you have the inner capacity to hold your boundary and be like, no, I gotta go take care of me for a minute, I'll be right back.

SPEAKER_05 40:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

No, it was well-timed break, CN5.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Yeah. And I'm assuming that all comes from so much work, you know, on like yourself. Like if I had to, if I had to guess, most people are not in that space. They're not in that at that point in their life that they know themselves so well that they can recognize, like, hey, you know what? I'm missing the mark right here. I'm not my best self right now. Like I need to take a break. Like, I mean, I can speak from my own experience. Like, very recently, I've just learned about like asking for that break and rec so I mean, you we know we all know about like if you're not there, like just ask for that break. But to recognize it in the moment where all the emotions are so high, it takes a lot of like deep work before you even get to that place, right? And like then when you're in that place, actually having the guts, I would say, to like recognize it and say, speak up and say, you know what, I I'm not being my best self right now, and this is not gonna go the way that we both want it to go. Yeah, I need a five-minute break. Like, can we come back to this? Or you know, whatever that is. Um, so, anyways, with that, I think would would you say like life coaching is a great dojo for that, like a good vehicle, a good path to get to there, or what other things, I mean, other than like grabbing a book at you know, like self-development, like what what kind of tips could we give some peop people that are interested in, like, hey, how do I get to that self-awareness and knowing myself better?

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, I think it can be as simple as just pausing for like a minute and just what do I notice? Right, and not without wanting to change it, without wanting to do anything with it, but just starting to be like, what do I notice? And then and checking in with your body, like that's that's a simple thing that you can start to do just to build the awareness. And I think um I've been using the word too, and I noticed when you used it too, the word work. It's a lot of work. I think it's also like, what's the intent behind showing up? You know, because sometimes I've gone in with like, I want to fix this in me, I don't like this in me. Well, that's coming from a place of judgment, right? Like, sure, maybe it's like I don't like the fruit of this action in my life, but the idea of it being work, it is work, but just also like going to the gym is work, but like you know on the other side that you're gonna be healthier and stronger. Um because I think some people can go into it as work, but it's just another, it's it's another part of their pattern of perfectionism of whatever it might be. Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be perfect at this, but you can't be perfect at figuring out what it's like to be a human. It's just having the grace. So yeah, so I think just checking in with your body, books, of course, getting but going to groups where people are like talking about stuff like this, and coaching has been one of the most phenomenal things for me, right? Like I've had therapy, I've had coaching, I've also been in a lot of coaching containers where you're just exposed in all that you are, right? And it's what you bring to it. You can be in a container and not get anything.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

Disentangle those for us. Which ones? Um therapy, counseling, coaching. Yeah, that's a tricky one. Yeah. You know, I think coaching is still relatively new. It is. Uh I think there's a lot of misconceptions about the the business of it, uh, the market. It's just it's an interesting thing. Especially online, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:53

You two can make four hundred thousand dollars in like a day. Totally, totally.

SPEAKER_05 43:56

And so you know, I think there's I'd I'd imagine There's people across the board, some that are like very committed to therapy, some that are like, no, you need a counselor, and others are like, you know, like what's what do you see as the difference in those containers?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

This is really healthy because I have this conversation a lot. Um, so traditional therapy is a it's it's a well, psychiatry, medication, yeah, right. Therapists and coaches don't deal with medication. That's a psychiatrist. Therapy is well, I mix it all up though. So therapy is essentially like looking back. How do we look at the the childhood things? How do we look at you know the different functions of growing up and how do we solve for those things? And even in that you have a lot of different therapy. The in my opinion, one of the best modalities of therapy was is EMDR, right? That's like where the rapid eye movement, and so it kind of helps you it helps you bypass your brain so you can break down trauma and metabolize it in a different way. So it's a really, really it's a good modality. But then you also just have talk therapy, you have different forms of therapy, which is great for certain contexts. Now, coaching is essentially where are you and where do you want to be, and how do we get there? Now, once again, I don't believe that we can't forget like where we came from, but so it's a mix of all of those. Um, and I think the coaching industry in general, the thing that is tricky is that it's not regulated, and the thing that's beautiful about it is that it's not regulated. So, in that, I mean, there is like you have like ICF intern what international coaching federation, which I did get certified. I I I did all the work to get that like approval. I haven't renewed it in a while. But even then, they have this certain modality. So, like the inner child stuff, the somatics, the body, like none of that would be considered it's off the table. Yeah. Um, even like art therapy and coaching and all those kind of things. So if someone was looking for a coach, I would ask them what kind of training have they had? Because you can go take a 90-minute test and say that you're a coach. You can just say you're a coach. So I think that's where there's some valid mistrust online. It's like, okay, what are your credentials? Or just because you have done something doesn't mean you know how to coach somebody else in their space. And the art of holding space for somebody is a very different thing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

Did you say the opposite could be true?

SPEAKER_00 46:05

Which one?

SPEAKER_05 46:07

Um, you said just because you've done something doesn't mean you be a good coach at it. Could the opposite be true that like even if you haven't done something or haven't experienced it, could you be a good coach in it?

SPEAKER_00 46:17

So I've had this question with Chris a lot, but I look at sports, uh-huh, right? So if you think about it, like you're watching like tennis, their coach has never won, never won what they're about to you know, like you go to Wimbledon.

SPEAKER_05 46:28

Oh, Wimbledon, thank you. I was blanking and I'm like, what is that, the masters? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:32

I don't know golf. I don't know golf. Uh you know what I mean? Or the football. You know, maybe every once in a while there's a you know a player that's turned into a coach and stuff. But like so, in that, I do think that you can, uh-huh, but that's because they have mastered the skills and it's the mindset.

SPEAKER_05 46:46

So I saw an interesting LinkedIn post. There was a guy looking for a coach, and he gave this criteria, like, must have, and it basically was like, must have exceeded me in every facet of life, kind of kind of a thing. And a handful of people were were challenging it, and I was super grateful for the challenges. It was like, hey, like I'd I'd encourage you to think about this different. Just because somebody hasn't done, you know, this, this, or this doesn't mean that they can't be a good coach to you and help you find expansion in some of these areas. Um, I was in a really interesting conversation actually like last week.

SPEAKER_02 47:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:20

And it was it was about therapy to to coaching and like kind of like, what's the difference? You know, and um we've got my oldest in therapy right now and and having some conversations and doing something, and and primarily it seems to be a listening posture. Yeah. Right. So you're talking about looking back, uh, there's a there's a lot of listening, it's a lot of how does that make you feel, it's a lot of you know, probably you know best type approach. And in my conversation with this person I was talking to, they were like, Yeah, and there's just no tools, you know, and it's like in in therapy, they're not like giving you proactive tools to move forward. And I'm like, that to me feels like the difference in coaching. And as I was literally live time, as I was verbalizing this, I was like, have you seen Stutz on Netflix? I haven't seen it. Um, Stutz on Netflix, you haven't seen it. It's Phil Stutz, and he is Jonah Hill's therapist.

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 48:14

And Jonah Hill does this documentary movie on Phil Stutz, like the process of of of literally of Jonah, you know, working with him as a client. And in the first 10 minutes, he talks about how being in the therapy space, they told him you can't tell them to do any no advice. Like you can't give him any just and he was like, That's bullshit. Yeah. Like he literally out the gate was like, Absolutely no. I'm not gonna do that. I have to tell them what to do. I have to give them a tool. So I was watching and going like, he is a therapist. Uh he might even be a psychiatrist because I think he has access to medication. But it looked like he was making the the transition to coaching. And fun fact, you know, shrinking.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:56

Uh shrinking, Harrison Ford's character is modeled after Phil Studz. Oh. So Phil Studs has Parkinson's. Um, he and he, but all of the concepts that Harrison Ford's character introduces in shrinking are Phil Studs tools. Yeah. Um fascinating. And it was just this like live time awareness connection I had on like the difference. To me, the difference feels like giving people tools to navigate life.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah, the goal isn't that like I'm your coach forever. Um it can change. Like I have some personal clients that we started out maybe more intensive and now we meet once a month, you know. But because it's almost just like you need you want that check-in or that that tune-up. Um then I also was gonna say when you were talking about that show in Lighthouse, I feel like there's the difference also between coaching and consulting. So if we take like the next the next layer down the road, um the IC inter the coaching federation for ICF, yeah, they also do not want you sharing any opinions. Right. So it's very much just like the client has all the resources they need to figure out what they want, you just need to ask all the good questions, and then they can come to a conclusion, right? So I think it's a blend. I feel like I blend all of them, except for the psychiatry. It's a blend of also the consulting, though, right? Because I'm also like, dude, like if I'm if I hired you as like a business coach, but you're just gonna sit there and let me I'm like, tell me what to do. Like, why am I paying you the money? Right. I want some, yes, help me kind of discover what I want, but there's a also a blend of consult me. Like, tell me what am I doing?

SPEAKER_05 50:26

Well, and in our world, it's like, well, you're working with a bunch of other organizations and executives. What are they, you know what I mean? Like, how can we share some of that knowledge? And I've seen this over here, and I've, you know, this client had success trying this, and you're right. There is a, you know, you don't do active facilitation. So you do you do coaching, you do some 360s, you wear that consultant hat. Uh, you know, I joke the three hats are like facilitator hat where I'm facilitating a room. Then there's the coaching hat where you're really kind of you know coming alongside someone, and there's the consultant hat where hey, this is what I'm seeing, and you might want to think about this. And um, that is very different than the ICF approach. It's very different than therapy. Some people will call their executive coaching work therapy. Yeah, and I'm kind of here for that. I'm I'm okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

I would say some of my clients I feel like it is. That is exactly yeah, it's interesting. And to the hat thing, going back to way back in the beginning, I think that's also healthy for relationships.

SPEAKER_04 51:24

Say more. What do you mean?

SPEAKER_00 51:24

What hat am I wearing? You know, because so talking to Chris, you know, sometimes you're coming to your partner, you know, and he'd be like, Do you want like husband hat? Do you want coach hat? Do you want pastor hat? Do you want, you know, this is when we were pastoring a church years ago. And I think even that can really help clarify what someone's looking for. And so I just I love that. I just made me think back to the other per previous.

SPEAKER_05 51:46

I offer people, it's mostly men. I offer men the question when she comes to you, say, how would you like me to listen?

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:53

Which is kind of similar. It's like, which hat am I putting on? How how do you am I because they naturally default to fix your hat.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

For sure.

SPEAKER_05 51:59

Right? Yeah. Problem solver, fix your hat. And it's like, yeah, she's asking you to wear a different hat, man. Like, yeah, just hold space hat. Yeah. Hold space hat.

SPEAKER_00 52:08

Can I just go something completely random? That's what I do. Yeah. Um, I think because I have this space and I'm, I don't know what the demographics that are listening to this will be, but I just want to also like celebrate all the men that I have coached in Lighthouse and all the 360s that I do. Because in that, like wanting to fix it, like I get to have conversations that a lot of people don't hear. And I think even right now in our world, you know, there's a lot of fuck you to men, and there's a lot of really bad shit that's also happened. And I just want to hold space for that. And so I just want to just celebrate the men who are doing the work, who are trying to show up, who when I do these 360s, are like, I just want to provide for my family, I want to do a great job at work, I want to like the j the heart intent is so good and the strength and just how much they often carry. Sure, yes, the women too, but I mean, right now I just want to say that like it's a lot, you know, like being on the road and the finances and like even with you, Josh, like just with Lighthouse and all that you carry, and like taking care of all of us so well, and then you have your own family and just the the showing up to that, like the the range and the capacity and the like inner fortitude and strength that that takes. I just want to, as a woman, I just want to recognize that for anyone that's listening, but also yeah, just you guys as well.

SPEAKER_05 53:26

You know, thank you. Wow, it's that felt amazing. Wow. Yeah, well, and I and I know, I know there's a lot of men out there that will feel like I do right now. Like, thank you. That I mean feels seen, you know? And yeah, and you're right, there are a lot out there putting in the effort, putting I yeah, it's funny that whole work idea, like people will just say, like, oh, you can tell they've done the work, you know, or oh, he's doing the work. And it's like that can have a bit of it's interesting. I'm still processing that. There's like a bit of a maybe a negative connotation to it, right?

SPEAKER_10 53:57

But the say more about that.

SPEAKER_05 53:58

The just how you were saying with Patrick, like when you, you know, when you call it work, there's this the the that yeah, there can be a connotation around that idea. Um some might have an aversion to, you know, I don't do, huh? Um and so I just see I see the pursuit of growth, I see the pursuit of like you know, heightened awareness, better self, kind of all those things, and it's super encouraging for I mean the the people that we get to encounter that are are moving into that, right? Yeah, and yeah, you do get to have a lot of those 360 conversations, coaching conversations. Tell us like I'm curious, do you have a like a high level like that you would call like intent or approach to coaching? Like I talk a lot about like my kind of canned is like let's close the gap, right? Let's close the gap between where we are today and and what we're potential, you know, our fullest potential, what we're capable of. Do you have kind of like high-level ways that you talk about how you engage with coaching?

SPEAKER_00 54:58

That's a good question. I have a lot of different ways that I engage because I have like, yeah, that's my individualization when I see the person and kind of figure out where they're going.

SPEAKER_05 55:06

That's a gallop strength.

SPEAKER_00 55:07

Yeah, gallop strength.

SPEAKER_05 55:08

Tell us about it. What does it mean?

SPEAKER_00 55:09

So it's just the ability to hold each and every unique story um separately. And so the nuance of how to engage individuals differently in the individualization is like huge for me. That can also be a hang up because then I don't ever want to say anything. So I'm like, well, how's that person gonna hear it? How's that person like so? That's where coming on a podcast where I'm just speaking in general, my individualization is like, oh, but what if somebody else hears it and then that's not true for them?

SPEAKER_05 55:34

Super interesting.

SPEAKER_00 55:35

So you're like holding space for pockets and different or I'll remember, you know, someone's like story from like six years ago. So when somebody says something that might be funny, I'm like, oh, but that person, like, are they gonna but that's you can overfunction. So the shadow side of the strength is overfunctioning.

SPEAKER_09 55:53

Ball hogging.

SPEAKER_00 55:53

Yeah, yeah. Just being like, or over protecting of like, they don't, that's fine. But it also helps me on a one-on-one, it really helps me like dive in. So as far as an overall approach, really, you know, it's like, how can I best support you today? What's been most alive today? But if I'm working ongoing, the first, you know, 15 minutes are anything new, but also kind of following up with what was the session before. How things shifted, have you done this, and then kind of workshopping what's next. Now, if it's a client, you know, who we're on a committed, like, you know, six-month thing together, more private, then there's kind of like just some things I want to take them through through. Like I would say, even the first five or six episodes of my podcast, understand parts, understand your nervous system, understand paradox, um, and kind of developing that. And then it's also just holding space for real time. And I think that's why sometimes it's good to have a session set, even if you're like, Well, I don't need it today. It's like, okay, but sometimes you just need to like clean the drain. Like sometimes you just gotta like you know what I mean? Because you never know what's gonna come up. And that also perpetuates this thing that it's only when there's a problem compared to maintenance. What is maintenance or what if things are good? Okay, now what if I actually have a minute to think about the future right now? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:05

Um, double down on that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:06

So I don't know if I have a philosophy.

SPEAKER_05 57:09

Well, I can tell you what I'm hearing. Go ahead. Um, it's it's pretty cliche, especially in the coaching world. But I'm I'm literally hearing I I meet them where they are. Yeah. Right? Whether that's high level in the individualization, meeting them where they are and what they need, or if it's more in the granular of the session to session, you know, you're checking in what's alive today, what's real? Like that's meeting them exactly where they are. And we talk about that a lot with coaching, right? Is it's like we can't do anything for the other person. Um, and our first job is to meet them where they are and align with what they want. Like, I don't, you can't, you can't engage with coaching without being able to answer the what do you want question.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Right, yeah, yeah. And that makes me, you know, sometimes the circumstances are different, but that that's more few is when like HR, like somebody's on like a performance thing. Remedial coaching. Remedial, that's different because then it's like, hey, we need to see these outcomes. So there's that section as well. I wasn't really thinking about that.

SPEAKER_05 58:02

So yeah, what you're referring to there is sometimes in organizations, uh, people are having challenges. Sometimes those challenges can be on a work product, like a competency level, and so they're on maybe like a performance improvement plan of these are these are metrics you really need to hit. Yeah. And a lot of the organizations we work with will tap on our shoulder to say, we want them. We want them to meet personally. This is not trying to exit them out, which is sometimes how the employee will receive that. Uh those, those are, those can be a challenge for a coach to come in and meet and what you have, you have to establish trust in the partnership. I'm on your team, like uh, you know, I'm always telling them, if you, if we're not able to like move you to where this performance plan is asking, we both fail. Like that's that's a fail, yeah. That's not a good reflection on, and they usually that's a okay. I see that, right? So moving this together. We're we're it's gonna look good for you, it's gonna look good for me, right? Um, it can also be on the other side, it can be sometimes there's character gaps. So that performance improvement plan can look a lot like your interaction with people, your relationships.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

I mean relationships a lot.

SPEAKER_05 59:12

That one probably comes up more, right? Uh so yeah, those can those can be fun.

SPEAKER_02 59:17

Those can be fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:20

Um can I bring it back a couple uh notches uh just two things that I took notes, and then I wanted to um just maybe ask. One is an ask, and one is just a maybe recommendation for everybody listening. Um the movie Inside Out, I don't know if you've ever seen it.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

I saw the first one a long time ago.

SPEAKER_03 59:37

Yeah. Emotions. Yes, emotions. Like we've been talking about, you know, joy and anger and frustration and all these things. And I think in that movie they just I feel like they did such a great job and just showing how all of those we need all of those emotions in order to coexist. Like we can't just like I think in the movie they're you know, like pushing sadness away. Like sadness was such a bad thing. Like, no, you're destroying this, you're doing all this stuff, but the power that that has, right? And so I think in the same way, what you mentioned earlier too about your coach, that joy, we need to bring that joy also and like hold it because as I think as adults, honestly, like we are so much more focused on like all the stuff that can go wrong. Yeah, I don't know at what point that happens in our lives, but like I can see like my kids, like they're all so focused on joy, joy, joy, joy, joy. They get sad for a little bit, and it's joy, joy, joy, joy, right? Which is awesome. Yeah, and then I look at my life and I'm like, man, I should be doing more of that. I should be hanging on to more of that joy when I have the joy instead of just like being like, Yeah, how long is this gonna last? Or like when am I gonna dip down again into that sadness or that dark part, right? Uh so anyway, so for anybody you know listening and you haven't seen it, I know it's a kid's movie, but it's it has so I don't know if it's a kid's movie. Maybe not, huh? It's animated, but it I mean it's it's deep puddles. Yeah, I mean, even the interactions between husband and wife, like it's such a great like the gotta rewatch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:55

I think I saw it at the drive-in, so that's why I was like, I was in and out, kids were in the car, we were we took a bunch of kids. So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:01

The piece you're talking about is hilarious. Where she's trying to talk to him at the dinner table, and then it goes into the wife's head and it's like, call the husband again, summons the husband again, right? And then another one's like, We left him for the surf instructor in Costa Rica or whatever. It was so funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:18

It's an amazing movie. Powerful. Honestly, I think there's so much in there. Um, and then the other thing I wanted to ask you just a little more, if you can give me a little more details on that like hormonal part that you were talking about, like that you check in with women. Like, you know, obviously I'm married, and so I love my wife. And so what kind of tools are there? Like, I I that's so foreign to me. I've never even heard about like you can check your hormones. Like, is that like funny?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:40

I had it written down because I wanted to come back to it too.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:42

Oh, yeah, because there's like a thing that you put in your arm and it's like, oh, this is you know, you're orange now. I don't know. Like, how does that work? Because I need that. No, it's good.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:51

Yeah, we've okay. I want you to take this one, but I would say for me, it the similarity is like I I'm gonna turn 42 in a couple weeks, and it's like one week, dang it. Um I'm turning 42, and in this window, like you know, I had a doctor say, Well, let's get some blood work done. Yeah, and it was like, What I'm not I'm not like 80. Like, what do you mean? Right. There was like a negative connotation to and and really all it was like, let's just see where you're at. Like, let's get some data, let's understand, right? And the blood work came back fine. I mean, I could use some, I think, like vitamin D and like B12 or something like that, but it, you know, that felt really similar when you said that. It was like, hey, like check your hormones. Like, this is an opportunity to kind of just see at a bio level, like how things are going. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

Yeah. Yeah. And so what I also we can go back to the um Joy and the joy thing in a minute. But yeah. So often I feel like what I because I did, you know, a nutrition, I don't know, I did this, what is it, school of integrated nutrition a year-long like program for that. And I used to help women with weight. And then I stopped wanting to help women with weight when I was like, yeah, when someone's in their 20s, great. When they're in their 30s, fine. Then you try to do like I like I ordered some course on hormones because I was like, how do I actually help my clients? Because I was finding it harder and harder for them. And then that's when I was like, this, I don't want to be a doctor, like, this is not what I want. And I was like, I actually want to go more towards the other coaching. But all that to say, I feel like for women, it's good to do a baseline even when you're younger, like 30, 35, because what is your baseline? It's different than everybody else. And so it should just be normal. So then when you're actually going to like when you're in your 40s or your 50s, it's like, okay, well, what was my normal? How off am I? And so doing it's doing blood work. Often you're gonna have to find a naturopath that you trust and you're gonna have to pay out of pocket, and it's expensive, but your sanity also is, and just your your piece of life. And it is controversial in some people, so I'm not gonna say do it or don't do it. You do your own research for you know, women listening and you figure out what you want. But really, if you think about when the the hormones start declining, if you think about like a woman when she's younger, procreate, like just biologically. Like, if you don't want that, that's fine. But biologically, our boundaries are wired to procreate and find a mate. A lot of these hormones, maybe like I'm generalizing this, make us nicer, make us more appeasing, make us more like, okay, yeah, like let's do this because you know, it's the nurturing, it's all those hormones. Those hormones start to dip, and you've got anger and you've got rage, and people are like, what is wrong with me? And you have women setting boundaries who've never set boundaries, and you're like, what happened to my wife? Like, she's not.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:17

She's not trying to find a mate anymore.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:19

No, she's not, right? And it's also it's moving through that. You know, you have like the archetypes, you know, you have like the maiden moving to the mother, moving to the sage, you know, like it's this, it is a transition period, and our culture is so obsessed with youth for men and but especially for women, right? Like, be young, stay young, don't wrinkle, don't do this, don't whatever. Like, and whatever everyone's philosophy on that is part of it. So not only is it a transition for what are you laughing?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:49

A meme like yesterday, and it said we're gonna get you off social media just. No, it said it said like 60 years old, 30 years ago, and it was a picture of Betty White, and then it said 60 year old now, and it was like Jennifer Aniston. And it's like, what things have drastically changed, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

Like, yeah, and you get to care for yourself, right? Everyone has their own version of what like being beautiful or what aging looks like for them. But imagine when what you're doing, like you've had a certain way of like living for even for me, right? I also I mean, I had a kidney transplant, which played into this, but like even right now, I'm working with a macro coach because even as a health coach, quote unquote doing everything right, but like you're gaining weight. And so you have women who are looking at the mirror and being like, I am doing quote unquote everything I know to do right and feeling completely out of control. Like I have no control what's what with what's happening to my body, whether it's weight, whether it's energy, whether it's capacity. Um for me, there's this sometimes I just like lose my words and I'm like, what the heck, Sarah? Like, you know, and that's you know, in this pre I'm 47. So, you know, perimenopause, like that that space. So looking at my hormones is just a way that I've been able to help support that. Also. For women, which would help you know, is like libido, you're thinking about that. Like, if you get your testosterone checked, like mine was at like seven. So I'm like, of course I love my man, but why am I like not even like considering sex? Well, until I got my testosterone picked, and I'm like, all right, let's go. Like, it's just like for women, there's all these things that are playing into it, but it's also progesterone, it's estrogen, it's there's so much that they can look into and get the support so that they don't just feel lost and isolated in this, like, what is happening to me kind of situation.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

Yeah, you talked about there's a seven, so are there like certain charts of like, hey, this is what a healthiest, yeah, you know, like average maybe in the world should look like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

I'm not like, yeah, I'm not an expert in that. Okay, but the thing that I do love about my naturopath, which he's out in Colorado, I don't know, and he's like full, so I don't know if you could take him. But like he'll actually also test my labs with different companies every other time because they will have different markers. But as a practitioner, he's like, this is what I see is good for women across the board. Even though if I if they do this brand of test, it'll say your range should be here. This one, it should be here. Um, so just getting the support I think that they need and also understanding the symptoms. I think it's being a little bit more talked about, you know. On Instagram, there's a few, you know, women that I follow that are doctors that, you know, ringing ears and just stuff that you would never think. You just think hot flashes. Oh, woman, if she's not having hot flashes, it's way deeper than just hot flashes.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:22

I'll I'll vulnerably lean in here a little bit and say hormones have intimidated me. Um, I uh if I think about parts of me and like core stories, I could probably go back and say um my mom was probably really verbal about the hormonal shifts and changes in a way that they were almost weaponized a little bit. Like I just remember her being like, I'm PMSing right now. It's like, oh god.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:48

So I'm not responsible for anything.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:50

Kinda, and like, you know, I was like, oh, does that mean pack my suitcase? Because I should get out of here, you know? Like uh it just was yeah, and so there was this real negative kind of connotation around the hormones idea for me, even to where it's like, I may have wrongfully, you know, created this exp like don't use hormones as an excuse. Like, you know, you can mindset your way out of hormones or you know, any of those things. And as a dad of three girls, um, I should say now as a dad of two women, yeah, uh, and having another one, like hormones are very real. Yeah. And and it's it's actually gonna be counterproductive to what I want in relationships and let's just call it vibes in the house if I try to just ignore those and pretend that that doesn't exist or it's not at play. Like it's it's very, very real uh to the point where I'm letting them educate me, right? Like, what's going on? Let's talk about this. Like, what are you experiencing? And not to the point of like having blood work and and knowing that, but I just want to I want to gently advocate for like leaning into that idea, I think sometimes as men, because we don't I'm probably overgeneralizing here. We don't understand it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Well, I don't think women have understood it, Josh.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:09

That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

It is so like so much medical stuff has been done as male as like you know the the study subject.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:15

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:16

And so even like my female friends and I have conversations, like we're still learning, and we're actually women, or we're going through it. And so I think it's just now even becoming, so I think it's not just men. Yeah, I think women as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:31

He goes off and he's like, you know, F you hormone, not you, Allison, yeah, but you hormones, F you and he just goes off. And like me and my sister have always said that line to each other, and it's like, that's really my context for hormones. It's like, yeah, you got them going on, like for F those hormones, you know? And it's like that's not healthy. Yeah, they're at play, it's a biological thing happening. And we need to get curious about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:55

And I think even tracking it, right? And I think as a woman, it's my responsibility. Like, I don't get to just be psycho or like abuse the people in my space, but that's also where the self-understanding and the ownership comes on me. Do I know my cycle? Do I know where I'm at? So that I can say, I'm not gonna engage in that right now because I might not show up as my best self. Yes, are there moments where you're trying to figure it all out? Sure, but even then we're still responsible humans, right? None of this stuff negates the fact that like I am responsible to how I show up to you, how I show up to you. And as a partner, there's apps where you can like share cycles, like so you can understand. I remember when I was before with Lighthouse and stuff when I was just doing my own coaching business. Literally, one week a month, I'd always be like, Husband, I need some coaching. And he started to ask me, okay, where are you at in your cycle? Because one week before my period would start, I wanted to blow it all up. I wasn't an entrepreneur, I hated what I did, I needed to go like is so he wasn't saying like he wasn't discrediting me asking for support. He was just like, She just needs like a walk right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:53

Or she like it's it's almost it's almost a cheat question of how do you want me to listen?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

It is.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:01

You got a name of an app.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

Right. Um I use the flow app.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:04

It's literally called the flow.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:06

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:06

Flow app, it's pink. I don't have my phone over here. Um it's pink. Yeah. I mean, that's what the little thing is like. But it helps you understand, right? Or even for a woman to understand in the coaching world for me, it's like you can't men run on a 24-hour cycle. Women don't. We run, we're run by the moon. And so can we give ourselves understanding to know that we're not just machines that run the same? So it's like, yeah, when you're ovulating and you're all of a sudden you're at the gym and you're like ready to go, and like you want your man, and you're just like all these things, like understand like your hormones play into that, and there's nothing wrong with you that like a week later you're like, wow, like I just why can't I lift as much weight? Or why do I feel a little bit more tired? It's all of this ebbs and flows with our with our cycle.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:50

Our listeners are probably noticing that Patrick and I are taking a lot more notes today. Oh my god, that's more pages.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

I just, yeah, because I mean it's literally like, I don't know, are we half the population? Totally.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

So it's like if we can understand that and normalize it, right? But that's also where I think so, like, world has just gotten kind of weird. Like everything's either like sexualized or it's this, or we don't talk about that, it's gross. Instead of just being like, the beauty that brings like people onto this planet comes from a woman's cycle. So if we appreciate that, and that's also masculine-feminine dynamics. We talk about that with coaching, right? How do we all develop our own inner masculine, which is that containment for our feminine to also be more of the flow and the free? And we can do that within ourselves, but we can also do that with our partners too. Like, you know, sometimes it's like I just want Chris to be like the containment, and I just need to like be a little like this with communicating. And then it's like, I just like calm down because somebody held me, like somebody contained that with consent, right? I'm not always consent. Sometimes I'm just like blah, and he's just whoa. So that is not safe, you know. So, but that's through trial and error. And I think that leads to emotions. If we go back to that show, um how to express, I think it's leaning in. I don't know if there actually is a way, but there's also practices. Some of the somatic work I do, it's like, I'll put together a playlist that is more like songs that are gonna be opening up grief or anger. Um, I would say anger has been my biggest healer because it was the one emotion that I was like anti.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:20

Can't feel, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:21

Well, and I was like, I won't, yeah, like I just didn't like anger, grew up with a lot of like stuff flying around the house and craziness and all of that. And so I but in that of my judgment of anger, I completely blocked off what anger also is, is just like a truth. Like anger points to what's alive, what's true. Is there something that's been you know violated or a boundary or you good or something like that, you know? So it's it's just like how do we do that? And so in that, it was me well, a the first time I actually like lost my anger, a fun story. Um, it was a weekend, it was one of those weekends as a parent where I was like, I'm done, I'm done with everybody, I'm just whatever. It was a Sunday afternoon, and we had just had like an hour conversation, which is too long, with one of my kids about pushing boundaries and respecting people's private space and just all these things. And I had been working with a woman who was also at our church who had kind of like had me explore emotions for the first time and be like, Sarah, you just keep everything nice and quiet, which is just like essentially you're just lying about your life and going through it, whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:26

Oh, I love that voice.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:28

I think I know her.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:29

Yeah. Oh my gosh. So um, so I've been kind of exploring some of these things of actually just being honest about things that I didn't like or, you know, and just, you know, whatever, all the things. So this same said child, I was vacuuming the floor, came over. You know those like flappy sticks that like um like you go like this and it like wraps around you wrap bracelets.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

Just walked up to me and just did that, but it like popped my knuckles or something in a way where it just like hurt so bad. You guys, you know what I did?

SPEAKER_08 1:15:02

I think I heard this.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:03

I took the vacuum and I picked it up and I just started slamming it on the floor. I and that is like the most insane thing that Sarah, because I prided myself on not being dramatic, on not being whatever, of just being like, you know, always, yeah, always, you know, had the perfect response. I think Chris was on the couch, my youngest was on the couch, the child that did the thing went into his room, right? And I was like, whoa. And like my talk about like flooded nervous system. I was so like, like I was shaking because I don't ever even it was also like I didn't allow myself to feel that level of rage, like or that frustration. Cause I just it hurt. And I was just like, this hurt, and I'm frustrated, and I just like slam the thing, which is so ridiculous in my like prefrontal cortex brain, right? And then I went upstairs and I was like, whoa, you're just like shaking here. I went down back, I went back downstairs. I was like, I gotta go gotta go talk to this child, right? Because that was completely like uncalled for, like my reaction. And just let him know, hey, mom broke the vacuum, mom is responsible for her own choices. And I do want you to know that you can influence the environment for other people, but it's not on you what I did with that, like how I handled it. But in that moment, it was like I think like a wind, like something cracking to like, oh, to let myself be quote unquote that out of control was so new because I'd stayed so just like measured, guarded, like never do that. Because I judged someone in my life growing up that used to do that, and I would never I'm like, I'm never gonna be like her, I'll never be a mom like that. So I did it, and in that, where's the paradox and where's the shame? Can I love myself in that? And so that was kind of the crack of a journey of me discovering opening to my anger, and I will say I went to the opposite extreme. I mean, Chris could tell you a lot of stories, but it was just it's almost like you know, you swing the pendulum and then you gotta like come back. You unlock it, you unlock it, and you gotta come back to center. Um, and I would say it's been so freeing because I actually can be honest and truthful and not just be just like the sweet little, sweet little good, good girl that you're supposed to be. I don't know. So yeah, wow telling on myself, and then I had to go buy a new vacuum, right? Because you've also plants to have choices, and I'm like, this is not how I want to be spending another 150, 200 bucks, Sarah. But but what it represented was like a breaking of always being like so self-controlled, doing the right thing, whole lot of Christian stuff in there of just like almost like a little robotic human compared to like, do I think it was right or wrong? I don't think that matters.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:36

But what it was was is was a moment where I was just so present to what was true and alive inside, and I actually just let it out. I don't know where that's.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:45

Oh, that was a lot. I love it. Um, are you are you a Dr. Becky Kennedy fan? Do you know her in the past? I followed her sometimes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:51

I feel like I found her when my kids were a little bit older.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:53

Yeah. But yeah. It was like you were past the the real pivotal window. Yeah. Yeah. You we we started today, you said two things are true, which I know is a is just a description of paradox, but she she like really doubles down on the two things are true thing. Um just when you were describing it, going back to said child, even though you narrowed it down to two out of three, I have a pretty good sense of. Well, you know my children, so like, okay. Um and there's a line is essentially what you were describing when you went to have the conversation that that Becky uses that I think is really powerful, which is you know, going back to your kids and saying, Hey, just like you, I'm still learning how to regulate my emotions. And I find myself I unfortunately I find myself saying that, you know, semi-often. It's just coming back when I come back around to do that repair, it's just reminding them, hey, just like you, I'm still learning on how to regulate my emotions. Yeah. And, you know, some of them get the better of me from time to time. So thank you for your grace. Yeah. Uh and I want to keep I want to keep talking through these things with you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:58

You know, so it's so good. And it's all the areas of being a human, right? Like, and I know we're talking about female cycle and all that, but also with emotions, it's like desire. Like, where are we cut off from our desire just in in life and what we want and even sexual desire and pleasure and all of those things? Like, it all gets to be on the table, but it's like where are we like muted or not open or expressed? And like within ourselves, like, how do we just continue to find more freedom and expansion uh within containers that are safe or whatever that looks like for us, you know?

SPEAKER_05 1:19:28

Yeah, I love that. We had a we had a decent sized conversation with Chris Free about unbound and the attention and kind of the connection between the attention and desires and the ability to go, you know, internal and and and even just come to terms with your desires, let alone communicate them or share them with others.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:47

Or not be ashamed or all the pieces in between there.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:51

Um okay, you mentioned something, and I want to like come back around to it. Uh, but let's let's go back to like the very beginning um of like one meeting you.

SPEAKER_09 1:20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:01

Uh so we've been talking a ton about coaching. Yeah. I shared before, like I I sought your husband out as my coach, right? So I I hired him to do coaching work with me. Uh, and we quickly got to a why process.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:16

And you were the ta you teamed up to you know co-facilitate my why. So, okay, we'll start there. Anything that comes up for you and having sat through my why or um you know exploring that together.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:29

Well, I think it's it was that was just special on so many levels.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:32

Like that was like the second time I hung out with you. Like I think I met you at the party. I didn't know if that was my first.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:36

I met you at the park because you and Chris were meeting and I was walking with one of the boys, maybe. Yeah, I have three boys, so we haven't said that, but yeah. Um and then it was just the why process.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:47

Five hours of me just going as deep as humanly possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:50

Yeah. I don't I think the thing that I recall is just like I just love you so much. Like, and it was such a sacred, beautiful thing. Because someone that is like as strong as you, like, have so much like respect for now. Like at the time I didn't even know, but even in your why process, just the way that you operate in life and the way that you think, and my husband, obviously, like I know his, like, I know his world and his people and his standards and the way that he talked about you. I was like, oh, who is this guy? Like, for my husband to feel like he me he met his match in a lot of ways, but also you guys are very complimentary and different. I'm like, I was super intrigued just because the level of respect that he had. And then for me to get to go into the room and do the why and just like who you were and how like just how hungry you are, like as a man, as a dad, as a business, as a husband, as like, and your three girls, right? Because so much of my why, which you did, my dad's so influential, like in my life. So seeing someone actively be that, and half the time it sounds so whatever, it might sound prideful, but I'm like, half the reason I'm as amazing as I am, is I think because of the dad I had. Like, I had a dad who loved me, who believed in me, who did all this. My individuals, not to shame people that don't have that.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:05

Like she's already holding space, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

But that's just my truth. So, so just seeing that it was just such a gift, and I had no idea how it would all unfold from there. Right. Yeah. And I think your belief in me, like outside of that, like to have somebody like I have so many friends are like, where do I find a Josh?

SPEAKER_08 1:22:22

Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:22:22

Because they know, like when I was going through my Muse program, which is a lot of my embodiment work and like that container of is a mastermind of 16 women plus our two leaders for you know a year and a half. It's like, well, Josh, yeah, like a lot of how I've been able to be is the way that you also have believed in me and provided just like work and trust and and built that.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:42

Super cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:44

Yeah. So she dropped a little nugget in there after you and Chris facilitated my why. Um in the why world, when we talk about discovering or finding your why and going through that, they they really encourage you not to have someone facilitate it who's really, really close. Right. So um it wouldn't have been appropriate for Brianna to facilitate my why. It wouldn't have been appropriate for Chris to facilitate Sarah's why, although he really wanted to be in that room. He really wanted to be in that room. Uh so I mean, just the amount of trust that Chris demonstrated in tapping mine and Brianna's shoulder to say, would we facilitate Sarah's why?

SPEAKER_00 1:23:22

And me, Josh. Because even though I am a coach and I see people's inner to like get into my inner world, like it's I just I also value it so much, and it is so special and sacred. So that says a lot about my trust as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:36

Yeah, it was super cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:39

Um, so in the season of like meeting you, and I we'll call it on ramping into the relationships. We're we're doing the why process. Uh you had something very big looming. Yeah. Uh do you want to talk a little bit about how you mentioned the kidney transplant, but you were this was imminent. It was it hadn't happened yet. It was coming up. I mean, a lot of feels stress nerves for you. I was probably getting them secondhand because I was I was really part of Chris's support system in that season and window. But yeah, tell us, tell us about that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:13

Yeah, yeah. So um when so there was a season of life that felt pretty intense. That was when, so my youngest is 12 right now. His name is Nathan. Um, he was born in February of 2014, and then I might get the number the days wrong, but then in like April, um, I ended up in the hospital and found out my kidneys were at 15% total function. Um, and I was told that I would need a kidney transplant immediately, which my sassy little self, I told the neph nephrologist, I was like, the Chinese can cure me, don't tell me that. We'll see what happens.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:48

And that's coming from living five years in the children. I lived in China for five years.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:51

So, and this is just my natural posture, is often like, don't tell me, like, don't don't tell me what's possible for me, don't tell me that. Um, and so, but so that season, but let me just say that season. So I had Nathan, found out he needed a kidney transplant. That was in April. In May, my dad died unexpectedly of a heart attack. So I was 34. Um, he was only 63, was taking his pack test for the you know the fire crew, and um he had a heart attack. Came back from his funeral, went straight to a one-month trip to China because we already had it planned because we wanted everybody, we'd lived there for five years, we wanted everybody to meet Nathan. Um, and we thought we can get meds. So um, and then came back from that, and then in June, I think it was, we took over pastoring a church. Um, and then in August, I told Chris, like, I don't know what a mental breakdown looks like, but something like I need some some help. Like it's just too much. Was I think just the shock of my dad was and I mean you need a transplant. I just was newborn. A little bit going on, so yeah, and my hormones, speaking of hormones, they dipped a little bit heavier each time. And then, I mean, come to find out, I wasn't just normal, tired. I'm like, you're operating kind of oh, here's the best story though, you guys. Okay, so Chris and I have had five miscarriages.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:03

Hold on. You said this is the best story.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:06

Listen, I know, I know, I know, right? So that yes, so there is all that, not to like gloss over that. And I know that's a sensitive subject for a lot of people. Um, everyone's journey is different. But when I met with the nephrologist, that first appointment, and you know, I was just kind of going over my story, he was like, I don't even know how you got pregnant in the first place. Like essentially, like Nathan shouldn't be here. Like, with if your body, because they call kidney disease the silent killer because often, especially chronic like mine, it wasn't something acute, it's just slowly declining. And then you're just like, Am I ti- I don't know. Like, doctor be like, Are you tired? I'm like, I'm a mom. I've little kids, like, what do you mean? Like, yeah, you know, I don't know. Like, because what what am I measuring it to? Um and so when he said that, like I literally just was like, Oh my gosh. And Nathan means gift of God. So it's like I already had this incredible, and so he was already a miracle to us, having had five miscarriages before, you know, like one set of twins, so four pregnancies. So going through all of that, and then having this doctor say, like, I don't even know how he's here, his name is gift of God, and just like that's the paradox of I had this most insane gift of this little boy, obviously the other boys too, but kept me so present to the day-to-day in the hardest of heart of like grieving my dad. So those that's when I say paradox, like that's where it's just like, what? Like, and as a human, how do we hold that like shattered heart and also just like this like perfect little human that I get to raise and the other boys? So yeah, so all that to say, so I I always I forget that part, I haven't told that part in a long time of what a gift it was that I was like, Nathan, you're like you're even more of a miracle, and it's just such a gift, like all my boys are, right? You know, um, and so so that was 2014 and And you could take this however you want. I'm just gonna say it. When I came home from the hospital, when they were like, you're gonna need a transplant. No, this is after I met with the nephrologist. I was like nursing Nathan and I'm like Googling, like, what does it look like? Da-da-da-da-da. And um, I was like, Jesus, can I just have five years? Can I just get this little boy to five in that way? Because I was primarily stay-at-home mom. That's been the greatest joy of my life. Like, I love that. Like, um, and in those seasons, you know, we just made life work, whether money was tight or whatever. I loved being that like primary person. Um, you know, and I nursed my babies forever. So Chris is like, we gotta be done, wife. Like, you know, I just walking up to you. Yeah, not that old. No, but he'd be like, it's time for them to move out into their own bed. And I'm like, oh, but they're just so little. Um, and so I just remember that prayer, and just and it was one of those moments, if I don't know if you've ever had prayers where you're like, you feel like, okay, God just saw like this was like a there was like a something, like, and I felt like God like heard that and saw me. And I tell you guys, my kidney function after China went back up to like 24 to 27.

SPEAKER_06 1:29:03

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

Five years. I'm not even joking, was when it started dropping. And so once you get to 20%.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:10

Because you were originally told you needed a treatment. Like immediately. Immediately.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:13

It was immediately. Because I'm at 15%. They're like, it's so I went to China. I did try some herbs and stuff. Um, but I just I just kind of also believe that I got because that was my biggest heart's desire was I just want to, yeah, to be be there for him. Um, and then five years today it started dropping, which is crazy. And then um over the next few years, and really for me, it was when someone's like sick, one of sometimes it's hard because that there's like a hashtag social media, like you don't look sick. I heard that all the time. You don't look sick. And I'm just tough. Like I will just I live my life, I do my thing, but things might was making it like smaller, you know, kind of, and so kind of shrinking my life, brain fog, all the things until it was in 2021 um that I had a donor. Um, I actually advocated for a donor, went on social media and was like, hey, I need this, kind of awkward. You want to give me a kidney? Like, what do we do? But in that, um, it was a friend Chris that we had known. He was actually more friends with Chris. I was friends with his wife. I was more of an acquaintance, and he immediately, he's like, I know it's me. Like he wrote me back on Messenger right away, and I didn't, I didn't see it. So then I uh he texted Chris and he was like, Hey, go tell Sarah. Um, and he got tested and he was a perfect match. He's super fit. So another Chris, right? Like I got a lot of Chris's and Josh's in my life. Um, so yeah, so we were able to plan it preemptively. So I my kidney function went down to 11%. So we wanted to like let me get low enough to have the transplant before I needed dialysis because your your lifespan after dialysis, even with the transplant, is still lower, than for me to get a transplant now and then move forward. And um, yeah, everything went great. Um, the surgery went great. Like every time I worked out, I was like, this is so I can recover faster. Like I just really had that mindset of like I'm gonna be the healthiest, strongest. I am going in, having no idea what the meds. The surgery was easy for me, but the meds were a rough road for I would say like the first year and a half, like the immunosuppressants. I mean, being on prednisone, which is a steroid for a year. Talk about anger and feelings. And you know, I've had friends go on it for 10 days and be like, why do I feel I'm like, well, I was on it for a year. Wow. Um, and I was able to wean off. I went down to UCLA and I was just like, listen, I know this isn't working. Like, I was like, Yes, I have a kidney and I'm alive, but I don't want to be a mom like this. I don't want to be a wife like this. Um, it's just we got to figure something out. And I was reading that other centers were not using prednisone. So yeah, so had the kidney transplant, and now it'll be five years in October.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:48

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:49

Yeah. Wow.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:50

Five years in October. So that was 2021.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:53

Okay. So in yeah, it's just wild. It's just a little thing. Just a minute, it's just crazy. Um, so again, my my sight into that's mostly through Chris. Yeah. And I just I just remember a super pivotal moment. And it ended up in his book, which was which totally took me by surprise. Uh, and then the copy he just gave me like in the corner, he wrote, That's you. Um and it was like, oh, I didn't realize it was as impactful as it was. It was just, you know, me doing my encouragement thing. But I remember we were at the park, it was the Delmar Park in Morrow Bay, and your surgery was imminent. You you all were getting ready to head down. It was in LA, right? Like, yeah. And he was a mess. He was just a total mess. Uh he's a feeler, he's a right, like he and I just remember looking at me like almost desperate. Like it was just like, you know, he just looked a little lost. And it and as someone who had our our relationship up to that point is he's coach. Um he's my coach, and I'm in the coach EC. And I think this was this was a huge shift for us. This was probably like a moment that really transitioned us to more peers, brothers, yeah, um, you know, equal playing field. And I just grabbed him by the shoulders. I I like pinned him up against the van, right? And I I had his shoulders, and I said, Look at me, you know, and he was like, you know, eyes are eyes are saturated. Um, and he I just looked and I said, These are the moments we train for. And it and like it was just what I had like right here, but I could it it went to his bones. Yeah, like it it spoke to him at a soul level. It was just like, Chris, all the work you've done and all your life, all the tools, all the language, all the all that this is the moment that matters, right? Yeah, you are ready for this. Like you are the perfect person to to walk Sarah and your family through this. And literally in that moment, like his posture shifted. I felt his body shifted, his face shifted, like everything shifted, and it just was yeah, it just became, and again, I did not expect to be flipping through the book and be like, oh my gosh, this moment made it like right here. Um so yeah, it was just a very interesting season to know all that you all were dealing with, how he was trying to kind of stand in that space for you. Um super stoked that the story is the story. Uh there was something about your kidney, the new kidney taking in a way that like wasn't normal. Oh, it was like so fast.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:28

Like, I don't even remember how much pure night in like the first like night. Like they were just like, holy like, and just immediately it just locked in. And my doctor said I got the Ferrari of kidneys, which is super fun. I mean, my donor Chris, like super fit, super healthy, and he's young. So all of that does matter when it comes to me being young at the same time for the lifespan of the kidney and myself.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:50

So and you are still in communication, you all have a relationship with the donor, Chris the donor. Yeah, we chat all the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:34:57

Chris the kidney, Chris Chris Chris be like, thank you. I'm like, you say thank you for, I don't know, you got me like a Starbucks. Like, what do you how do you say thank you for a kidney? But um, but also, right, if we trust that like everything's connected and me asking and being willing to receive, right? Which being an independent face, this was there's so much to it. And even talking about kidneys in general, talking about coaching and just all the different philosophies. I think because I've been over 50 countries and just like culture, I love cultures and how everyone sees things differently. You know, Chinese medicine sees your kidneys as your qi, as your energy. And they also think when that's depleted, uh a lot of it is fear. And so a lot of the work I did internally during that time of healing, I did, you know, obviously the Western doctor, even though I was a punk at first, but when case I needed it, I did the Chinese medicine, I saw other natural paths, but I also did inner healing and like where am I living in fear? And if you think about your kidneys are filters, where have I spent my whole life filtering myself? AKA, I'm not gonna be angry, I'm just gonna be polite, I'm just gonna be this. I'm like all of those things. So that work was also kind of like stirring with the kidney work. And in that time, it was interesting because it can get to this point like of where do I surrender? Where do I say I'm gonna walk this path of healing and I trust? Because there was a part of me too that was like, God, I believe you can heal, like you do miracles all the time. But then also, what am I quantifying as healing? Right?

SPEAKER_05 1:36:24

Like attachment to an outcome.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:26

An outcome, right? Years ago, the idea that I have another human's it goes in the front, in case people don't know. So I have a little extra. Um, yeah, like so they just sew it in right here and they for me they and they left the other two. If it's cancer or something like that, they might remove one. So my two little beans in the back are just gonna shrivel up. And so I just this is my main functioner right here.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:46

That's crazy. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:48

Yeah. So I have like a little, so it's like a scar is actually like right here. Um, so they put that in and um, how was I saying that? Oh, I don't remember what I was saying. The work that you were doing and yeah, just sort of like the filters and what is that, what does that mean? Was all kind of starting that that journey for me of that inner oh, this is what I was gonna say. Obsessed with the outcome, wanting the outcome, believing if I prayed hard enough, if I did all the work, if I healed every dark secret of my ancestry, like Sir Francis Drake, who was a pirate and I forgave all his stuff. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, so so that was an interesting world to go in. But then also to come to this point, um, also being, we were still pastoring a church at that point, having Sundays where it was like, do not ask to pray for me. Like, I'm fine. Like, if you want to pray for me on your own, do it. But like, I don't and I don't want to be praying told, like, don't tell me what to do. Um, it was an interesting dynamic being in ministry, walking that path, um, while also trusting, because also in my receiving, my donor, like it's his story to tell, but for him, it was also such a gift that he was able to do, you know. Like his wife at the time had been sick a lot and done all these things, and he couldn't help her. And so he's like, if I would have done anything to help my wife at the time, how can I do this? And there was some stuff with his sister who had passed as well. And so it was just we're all connected, and if we can trust the giving and the receiving and and those pieces and just the support of the community around us was huge, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:19

So I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:21

The the whole idea of like interconnectedness is some some people's framing for just the idea of spirituality. Yeah. Right. Like I have heard Brene Brown describe it that way. Just like, how do you how do you define spirituality? And it's like just the idea that like we're all connected, yeah. And for different belief systems or different containers that interconnectedness is accomplished different ways or through means, but just the fact that hey, like we are we're all there's an interconnectedness at some level.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:50

Um yeah, you talked about uh outcomes, surrender. Yeah. And I was just literally in a conversation with a friend the yesterday um and this morning around patience. This idea of like needing patience.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:05

And I'm like, well, I got you, because I spent an entire year journaling about patience and trying to grow patience within myself. It was you know by reverse engineering the needs of people around me, um, primarily my four that I live with. We would really love it if there was more patience from dad. Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_09 1:39:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:25

Um, and in in that work for me, what what I've come to, I think that I found like the formula.

SPEAKER_10 1:39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:32

Um, because I think the only way to grow patience is to uh detach from expectations and surrender outcomes. Those are the two things that I literally typed those out this morning. So like when you said that, it totally linked with me. I don't think there's a way to even deploy patience, let alone grow it or expand it, without removing expectations and surrendering outcomes, which people can sometimes look, even just hear that idea like, what does that mean? Yeah, like surrendering outcomes means like I'm not driving toward a very specific thing. I'm learning to be in process. Yeah. Whatever, whatever the thing is, whatever that looks like, right? To you know, fitness is always like an easy, easy analogy. It's like I'm not attached to the outcome of six-pack abs or weighing a certain weight or you know, lifting a certain number. It's how do I stay in the process of going to the gym and showing up and doing the thing? And that's gonna give me the patience to achieve what I ultimately want to achieve.

SPEAKER_00 1:40:40

So tricky.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:44

You know, the people's favorite line.

SPEAKER_03 1:40:46

Easier said than done. Yeah, right. Yeah. What's coming up for you? I think it's a huge mind shift because most of the time, like, you know, people talk about goals and set a goal. And so if you're talking, you know, like in that fitness example, like my goal is to be this weight, right? And so then they get so attached to that. But if you don't have that framework and that mindset of like, no, it is through the work, the passion, the the um, the the uh what's the word that I'm looking for here? Um having that discipline and and and f fall in love with the the the habits. It's the journey, is the journey to get there, then you're gonna you're gonna be so disappointed every single day until you hit that number, and then you're gonna hit that number and say, and now what?

SPEAKER_05 1:41:28

Yeah, it's the moving goalpost. Yeah, right. You see you hear it a lot in corporate world about uh the next title or you know, the level of pay that they want. And it's like the goalpost can keep moving. You can hear it in life with like, when am I gonna get married, or am I gonna buy a house, or when am I gonna have kids, or you know, like yeah, all those things. It's like we can get too attached to the outcome on it so much, we're disappointed, we don't have it, and then we don't have patience in the process and journey to get to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:55

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:57

One coach that I followed for a long time, she she'll have you do, like if you're setting a goal or wanting something, she'll have you sandwich it between things you want. So, like I could say, I want three boys, I want to go to some country, because maybe I want to go to a new country this year, and that's the thing I haven't done. And then the third thing is like, I want to be married to Chris Vela. So, like sandwiching, reminding ourselves to want what we already wanted in the past, and then also like bringing it to the current day, right? Like, how do we like just having gratitude in the midst of the still wanting the desire, but like how do we practice wanting what we have, which is gratitude in a sense? Totally. But it's like, do I actually practice that? Like, I mean, obviously with miscarriages, like there were years where I was like, Well, we even have one kid. So do I ever take time to just actually practice wanting them and like celebrating? So it's gratitude, but it's just a little different too. But also in the context of setting goals, I think it's an interesting play on paper or even just for your mind.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:55

Well, and it comes back to paradox. Yeah. Because that can, that's a yes and.

SPEAKER_00 1:42:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:59

And that's the we've talked about this earlier. We've talked about the contentment and and and wanting more or personal growth or your professional growth or whatever it is. So it can be, yeah, I'm super great. I love Nathan, I love Zach, I love I got three boys. And I can still mourn the loss over here, and that can be real at the same time. Right. So it it all ends up coming back to that idea of paradox.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:23

Yeah, yeah. That's so good. Leadership and leadership and yeah, yeah. And I think it's like being present because I think that in between, it's it can be a crazy place to be. Like the in between what you want, where you're working for, especially when you're taking such solid active action to like what you said, to like to let go of the outcome. But also knowing that you're like wanting it and you're pushing for it.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:49

It's it's a balance.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:50

It's a yeah, it's a balance.

SPEAKER_05 1:43:51

Or you know a needle the thread, as someone we know will say, right? It's a needle the thread between between, yeah, I'm patient. I'm I'm not attached to this outcome, but I can still name it as something I want.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:02

And yeah, that can be hard to do.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:05

Yes, I want this. Yeah. And if in pursuit of it in the process things shift or things change, how do I, how do I remain open to that? Yeah and be willing to even shift or pivot my desire or my want accordingly.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:17

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:17

And part of our muse curriculum with Alexi Panos, like she's a coach and someone, a woman that I love and adore. Part of it was like, who do you want to be in the process? Right. Like it's one thing to set a goal, but it's like, who do I want to be? And how do I want, how do I, what's the energy I want as I am doing that? And so, you know, for her, she would part of our work was like, you know, I'm we use the word muse. It's to be the muse of your own life. Like, what does it look like to like, yeah, just be so in love with yourself and your life and like to be to have all of that? Um, but it's like, if it is a fitness goal, who do you want to be as you reach that goal? Because that's essentially all we actually have is the the in the moment. And how do you want to feel? Because you can reach the goal. Do you want to reach the goal feeling miserable every single day? Or do you want to reach the goal feeling ease or peaceful or just determined, whatever the word might be? There's no judgment on the word. It gets to be individual to everyone.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:10

Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people use the fake it to make it, but I think it's deeper than that because it's not just you faking something. It's like you actually owning, like, hey, I want to be this person. And so I'm gonna act this way because this is who I want to be, not because this is just something that I want to do to get to that point. And then I'll ditch that. I'll like just you know remove that skin once I get there. But it's actually the other way around, right? It's like I want to embody this person that I want to be. Yeah. So that when I get there, I am already that person.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:40

Yeah, yeah. And loving the habits, right? Like becoming a person who loves going to the gym, who loves eating a certain way, who loves being active, versus like, I just want this result.

SPEAKER_05 1:45:50

Yeah. Well, and that's why it's oh, I love this. This that's James Clear. So atomic habits, what James Clear says is when you're and he he frames it a lot when you're looking to introduce a new habit um or revisit an old one, right? But that we have to bring it to our identity level. So he'll say, you know, the goal is not to read more, it's to become someone who reads.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:14

The goal is not to exercise more or lose weight, the goal is to become someone who trains.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:46:19

And once something's at your identity level, the decision's super easy. Um, in fact, we Brianna and I were having a conversation about this earlier this week. She, in the last handful of months, has started jujitsu and she she's liking it. Um I think she's kind of on like she's trying to contemplate does she love it? Does she like it? Like, what's going on? She had she's been challenged in it, which is not super normal for her. She kind of tends to excel and thrive. And she has gone back and forth, even conversationally with me, on like, I don't know if I'm gonna stick with it. I might quit, I might stop, I might keep going. And it could it's vacillating a lot. And the gaps are getting a little bit longer as far as her vacillation and conversation with it. And the other night I said, I said, Hey, you know what's interesting is you never talked to me about maybe quitting yoga, and you never talk to me about maybe quitting pickleball. Um, but for some reason, this jiu-jitsu kind of keeps cycling back around. And I'm wondering if you've decided to attach it to your identity yet. Because you're very clearly someone who does yoga, and you're very clearly someone who plays pickleball. What's where are you in I'm someone who trains jujitsu? And her the look on her face was like, Oh. I you know, I and and I think that's the process she's in. And so, you know, and there is there is some other, you know, background color to the conversation. Um, you know, some things that have she's processed interestingly, or maybe had some negative impact. And and so she came back to me a couple hours later and she's like, I think I'm I'm in the process of deciding if it's gonna be part of my identity. I'm like, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:56

And I I think once you do, we won't have this conversation anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:00

Well, either way, either you'll say it's not gonna be part of my identity, and you'll play around if and when you do. Yeah. Or you'll say, I'm someone who trains jujitsu and it's what I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:10

Yeah. Or I maybe propose, or even in the season, I'm someone who Sure. Right. And then maybe like two years she's over it, but there's still like lessons. And in this season, I am a person who does this.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:20

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:21

Yeah, that's so good.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:22

And and can I bring also um there's something so beautiful, like little phrase that you say to um that you said to Blakely in one time that she was having a hard time at one of her games. Um, and you brought that up. Like she was just struggling. And you said something so Have we talked about that on here yet? I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:39

We have to give people permission to judge my parents.

SPEAKER_07 1:48:43

I love it.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:44

Do you love it? Oh, okay. Yeah, I think so. Well, my 11-year-old, um, she's pitching, so she's playing up. She's playing in a in a 12-U. She should be in 10 years. Now we did play her up selfishly so that our girls could be on one team. Love it. And one set of practices, one set of games. It's we do it every other year, and it's a big, big win for us. Um Blakely's superpower is definitely her mindset. So, you know, yes, she wants to be the future owner of Lighthouse, and she just has resilience. So we have talked forever and ever, whether she's batting or she's pitching, it's just next pitch, right? So she swings and misses, next pitch. She cracks it out to left field and it's a great hit. Next pitch, you know, never too high, never too low. Like, let's let's just keep moving. Um, on the pitching mound, that can be a little bit harder. And, you know, you can the cheers are coming from the other team, the you know, the crowd can start to get quiet, you throw too many, you know, balls, and it's like it it's just tough. And so there was a game, I don't remember, this was like maybe a month ago, and I pulled her off to the side in between innings, and I was like, hey, you need to remember this is what you wanted. You you've been dying to pitch, you've been dying to be in under this spot. Like you've wanted this pressure.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:02

And I looked at her and I'm like, you love this shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:50:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:05

And she started busting up laughing. Like. And she like, she's like, I do. And I'm like, I'm like, hey, you can say that. Okay. Like, you love this shit. I think that will help kind of like you know, document. I'm like, so I can't yell that from the bleachers. But like, what you'll hear me, I'll just say, Hey, you love this, right? Yeah. And that next inning, she's up on the mound, and and I was like, You love this. And and I could see her, she wears a face mask. Yeah. Um, while she's and I could just see her under it, and she's like, I love this shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:35

Like, I could see her lips move.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:37

Strike, strike, strike. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um, that game, there was maybe like four more innings. It's getting it's getting to the end of the game, and they have to go back out to pitch. They're up by one. And so if they close out this inning, if the other team doesn't get any runs, they will they'll win the game. And so you're the pitcher walking out. That's that's that's all the pressure in the world, right? Um, and so I just walked over there and she was she was getting her glove, and I was just like, Hey, this is what you wanted. And she looks left, she looks right, she kind of checks her surroundings, and she looks at me, she goes, Dad, I love this shit. All right, you know, go send and she did. She struck out the first two girls, and then she she caught she caught a pop fly to end the game, like drops and she has this move. She has this move, she drops the ball and runs to the dugout, uh-huh, and it just looks like like a walk-off. It's like she just drops the ball and just runs off and it's like, oh man, she's such a boss.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:34

Right? Yeah, love that. And like you like removing that the layer of potential shame, even around that word. Right. But that word gave her access to something like sometimes there's just certain words or things that like that's the truth. It made her feel bigger. It was like you got her in her body, you got her, like you got everything like online on fire.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:54

So good.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:55

Yeah, and now we can just yell, we can say, You love this, and she knows like it's it'll forever be your thing. Yeah, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:02

Yeah, I I love that story. And I love it because oftentimes we, you know, we pray for certain things, we ask for certain things, and then when we're in it, you know, we ask for that job, or we ask for that a car, we ask for the house, we ask for all these things. And then pretty soon, once we have those things, we end up maybe like, you know, not showing up to that job with the right attitude or not, you know, appreciating your car. And you're like, oh man, I wish this car was bigger or smaller, it had this or better gas mileage, or you look at your house and you're like, man, this thing feels small, or it's too big, or it's too this or it's too that. And like remembering that we asked for this.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:35

Remember when you when you would have given anything for this job. Remember when you were praying so hard to have kids, and now you want to light them on fire, right? And remember when you were, yeah, you were just you wanted a partner so bad. Right. And like, yeah, you when you remember, yeah, yeah, it's a really good reminder.

SPEAKER_03 1:52:54

I love that. So thank you for that. Uh on the access thing, um, I love that you are using that word because so I have a thing. Like, first of all, I try not to curse, or I've tried not to curse in the past. Just I don't know. And in I was just hearing this story yesterday over like at the table with some friends, but like in Spanish, I'm like a sailor. Like every other word is just like, yeah. But in English, I think there's like something about it just because I spent so much time learning English that I think I was like, you know, I don't I'm not gonna waste my mental space and capacity on like words that are, you know, there's better words for this, right? Yeah. Um, and then that translated into um flipping off somebody, right? Like to me, that, and I think it's maybe a cultural thing that when somebody flips somebody off is such a strong like sign, it's such a strong action to me, because you know, coming from a different culture, I'm like, oh, like they blur it in every movie, like that's just something that it's not okay. And then um my wife, she does it casually with her friends, and they're just like they're jokingly, and I think most people do, and it's totally fine. And so I really hope my sister's listening to this.

unknown 1:53:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:54:00

Um and so our whole relationship, she's always had to hold back because I, you know, we made it very clear from the beginning. I'm like, that that to me is a sign of disrespect and all this and all that. And then a few days ago, um, I don't know what we're doing. We're just like, you know, bantering with each other, and she was about to flip me off. And like she held back. Like it was it was like the perfect timing. And I realized, I'm like, this actually would have been really fun if she did. And so I brought it up and I'm like, hey, listen, like, I think we have to have a conversation. And she was a little worried at first, like, oh man, what's going on? What's happening? And I'm like, I think it's gonna be okay with me if you want to flip me off once in a while. And I am not kidding. She got so emotional, like she shared it yesterday with friends because she was like, I feel like we just unlocked it. Yeah, it just gave me access to like another layer of like, you know, joke between us and to me, like another connection point. Exactly. And so something like as simple as that, yeah. Allowing others to, you know, give that permission to like, okay, what matters to her, what matters to me, and like analyzing like what the deep you know impact it has on somebody else. So anyway, it's uh such a small thing, but I love that you use that word access because that's exactly how I feel. I feel like we both just gained access to another layer of like, you know, intimacy, yeah, which super weird flipping off is a ton of intimacy now between us.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:18

But yeah, yeah. So no, that's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:21

Just like the word, you know, it's H IT. Poach them up, come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:55:24

Well, no, and just thinking like just even the beforehand, like the having the conversation, you know, being honest about it, her respecting your boundary, because even if it's different, also you guys have like cultural things, right? That are that are different there. And then your willingness to kind of also see and be open. Yeah, oh, it's just so so beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:42

All right, I got a question. Um, what language do you think in? I get asked this a lot. Not dream. I that I've heard that one asked a lot. Not dream. I'm just what language do you think in?

SPEAKER_03 1:55:54

Um, I think mainly in English.

SPEAKER_05 1:55:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:57

I count in Spanish.

unknown 1:55:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:55:59

Which is super weird. Yeah. And I count. Do you know some people count by twos? Or if you're trying to count like large quantities, I count in threes or fives.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:06

Oh, which is super weird. Threes is interesting.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:08

Wow. Yeah. Um but yeah, the the thinking is usually in English, unless I'm thinking about a conversation I'm gonna have with somebody in my family that only speaks Spanish, then the language shifts. And it takes a little bit now. I think I I've been I've been, you know, speaking English or living in the US for more than half my life now. Right. And so I think my brain is starting to like adopt now like English as like the main driver. And Spanish now is the second driver as a passenger.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:35

Where I was going with that is I had some curiosity when you said that in Spanish you're like a sailor, but then in English not. I was wondering if you were like, do you think in Spanish? Like, and then you know, edit as you're as you're moving it to English, like kind of pull out some of those words that but it doesn't sound like it.

SPEAKER_03 1:56:54

Yeah, only in moments of like I can think of times where like I just got hurt hammering something, immediately my body goes to Spanish and I'm just like cursing out. Nice. Let me write something. I need to hear that. What do you got? Yeah. Sometimes I don't need things name.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:10

Uh yeah. Okay. Uh since we're on Patrick, yeah, he said something earlier, and I wanna I wanna alloop it to you. Okay. Um, and it was when he was talking about emotions and joy, and he used a word that I I tend to hear a lot in coaching containers, which is should. He said, Did you catch it? Yeah, I wrote it down and underlined it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:34

I've always listened to that.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:35

But he said he's like, and it's normal, right? But you verbalized it in the way of like, I should have more joy. And that comes up a lot in coaching. And at least for me, it's one of those like red flag statements that I'm always paying attention to. Yeah. How do you handle that? How do you take that kind of phrase and what do you do with it?

SPEAKER_00 1:57:54

Yeah. So to go meta about it, I would go several different directions. We could explore how would you know you're experiencing enough joy? Like how what would it look like, what would it feel like, what would be different in your life. With the should word, I would ex I could potentially, there's all these are there's all that's the thing with coaching too. There's always so many different roads you can. Yeah. In one of the courses I did, um, they had four trainers that actually led it. And I loved it because they were all so different. And they would even disagree sometimes about the direction that you took a client. Instead of if you follow one coach mentor, you're like, oh, this is the way that you should coach.

SPEAKER_07 1:58:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:58:27

So with the should, I would also maybe explore um what was it like growing up? Like what was how much joy was allowed? You know, what would happen? Um, whose voice is it is often a really good question. Of like if you're feeling like, oh, I should, like in a pressure way, whose voice is that? Like, is it so yeah, pick one of those. You want to play with any of them?

SPEAKER_03 1:58:48

Yeah, totally. Um yeah, I think growing up at the life at home was always um centered, like work was the center of it all. Like we are hard workers, we work hard, and I mean we worked seven days a week in our family, and that works. I work Saturday and Sundays. Like I worked every single day of my life. Like I did not, I mean, it rarely did I take breaks. Um, Sunday's the only time that we would close the stores that we had. Uh, we had like go to convenience stores, we'd close early so that then we can go to church in time, and that was it. But every other hour of the week, it was uh it was always around work. And so joy was very hard to be found. Like very hard. Like I had to find joy in the things that I was doing by myself. So it was not modeled to me that like, hey, look, this is you know, like you should take breaks and you should enjoy this. And when you're in that joy, you know, live in that moment and enjoy it and savor it. And so, um, so yeah. So now there's there's a lot of like guilt. Like the word when I'm feeling joy, the word that comes up is like guilt.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:55

Because you're not what?

SPEAKER_03 1:59:56

I'm not working.

SPEAKER_00 1:59:58

And if you're not working, then what?

SPEAKER_03 2:00:00

Then I I don't know. It just feels like I'm not um I'm not fulfilling my role. Like my role should be always producing, always working, always creating, always doing something.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:11

Yeah. Cause if you're not doing that, then what does it mean about you?

SPEAKER_03 2:00:14

That I'm failing. That's that's a voice in the head.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:18

Yeah, like you're failing. Yeah. Yeah. And if you fail, right? Because if it's a if you take it to the way if you fail.

SPEAKER_03 2:00:28

If I fail, then I feel like then I have to restart everything again. Like I feel like all the work that I've done, then it just squashes down and then it's non-existent. And I have to start all over.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:39

Yeah, work in actual work or work in like merit earned for all the hard work? Like what area?

SPEAKER_03 2:00:48

Say that one more time.

SPEAKER_00 2:00:49

So like when you say I have to start all over again, is that because obviously like working hard kept you a part of the tribe, it's part of the family. So we do a and it's like a practical level. I think that's something that also in this coaching world, like we have to understand the hierarchy of needs, right? Like people, you can be talking about all this ethereal, like cool stuff up here. But if people aren't eating, if they don't have food, shelter, like, and that also is something I think to really understand with our clients too when we're starting. Like, where are you at in life right now? Are things tough? Did you just go through a grief? Like, is there a loss? Are your finance, you know, because like all of that, like these things are up here. And if that's a struggle, like that also gets to be part needs to be part of the equation. But um that was just like a little more meta. But yeah, so thinking about for you, right? Like that's what needed to be done. That's how you were uh maybe presume a good son. Provided for the family, took care of everyone in. So if you failed, was it like the actual work project you felt like you had to start over again? Or is it like I might have lost some positioning in the family?

SPEAKER_03 2:01:50

Correct, positioning, positioning. And I mean, there was a lot of um, so I was raised by my grandma and my uncle. And my uncle, uh, the way that it was always um expressed to me, the way that I was always portrayed, it was that my uncle sacrificed sacrificed so much for me and for the family. And so that was like that was the goal that you have to reach.

SPEAKER_00 2:02:10

This is the bar pinnacle, yeah to get to that.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:12

And so anytime you're not doing that, you're missing the mark. And he and then his sacrifice is for nothing. And it was like, oh, that's a lot of pressure. That's a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_04 2:02:21

There's the guilt attached to the joy. Correct. If you're in joy, you're not working. Exactly. Yeah, falling short of unk.

SPEAKER_03 2:02:26

My uncle, man, he's been working since since I've known him, you know, his whole life. And uh until today, he's he's probably working right now. Uh he does not take vacations. Yeah. He does not travel, he does not go anywhere, he does not because he he's so, I mean, I feel like in some ways I got out. I still have some of that, you know, remaining in me of like that guilt and all that, but he's still stuck there working every day. Whether he needs the money or not, need the money, whether it doesn't matter. That that that's his his that's who he is now. Yeah. Um, and so yeah, for me, not reaching that bar in our family was like, well, you're you're wasting all that sacrifice. And so for me to have joy, it was so hard. I'm like, yeah, I would go if I would go on like a school trip or something, I would be thinking of like, man, I'm here because my uncle's working. And so it was really hard to detach from that. So now being, you know, my own, you know, husband and dad and all those things, like I know the value that it has to show my kids, like that I can enjoy things so that I can rest and that I can do things, but it's still super hard to sometimes detach from that.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:31

Yeah, yeah. One thing that comes up for me that obviously may not right now, but I would love to do in the future. So in IFS, internal family systems, we also talk about uh legacy burdens um and the burdens that we carry that actually aren't even our own, but that are passed on from uncle like working so hard. And so there's this like it's an honor, but it's also a weight and it's it's a legacy, something that like you can carry that actually isn't yours that's meant to carry, like in the way that maybe you're carrying it, sure. But it's like, what would it look like for Patrick to honor his uncle in the purest Patrick way? But culturally, we have a lot of different things that play into that. So, like if we were gonna work on that, it would be kind of like going back and like I'm walking through an exercise of, you know, just visualizing your uncle coming in. And it would be personal to you, right? So I can't say what it would look like. But and essentially kind of like handing that back to him like, thank you for all that you've done for me and all that you've provided. And this is how I'm going to show up and to like honor your legacy and who I am. But the weight attached to it gets to go back, right? Because it's like it's a burden that's put on you. And so, and also like, even as an immigrant, like I can't speak to that, but like there's a lot of different weight, and there's so much of like we sent you here, we sacrificed. Like, there is like so that also gets to come up in IFS too, where it's not just your parts at the table, it's the ancestors, it's legacy, it's what's grandma saying, what's AT saying?

SPEAKER_04 2:05:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:01

Yeah, and it's the weight and pressure, and so it's really, it's really real.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:06

Um would you say, Sarah, that that exercise then essentially starts to reframe what's allowed in joy versus guilt versus work. So you're yeah, you go back into the internal family systems to reframe all that bigger internal family system, yeah, of your ancestors. Yeah, so that you then get that opportunity to have a new operating system is what I'm hearing. Just your your operating system right now is deceiving joy.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:36

100%.

SPEAKER_05 2:05:37

100%, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:38

But rightly so, right? If that's what, if that's what kept you part of the family, and it's out of love and honor for your uncle.

SPEAKER_08 2:05:44

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:45

And so, but it's it's that nuance in there. And so I feel like that's where just like bringing those things out and into the light, and it's really a sacred experience, you know, like in those sessions where you do call in the ancestors and you get to to kind of like hand back to them what is theirs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:06:02

Um I love that. You and I talk a lot about how different we we approach coaching and the different skills and tools that we have. Um, if anyone's listening who's been coaching with me, they're likely gonna be like, How do I get an appointment with Sarah? Um just hit me up, we'll set you up with Sarah. Um Beautifully done. That was it. I and thank you for letting us play there, Patrick. Because I for sure this will have ripples for a lot of people. Yeah. Um, my my approach would be wildly different to that. Um, and if it's you, right, like one of the things I would first call out is like, man, having a front row seat to watching you be able to find joy yourself in anything. While that could have like a real negative connotation from your early childhood of like, man, like joy just wasn't a thing. Yeah, and I had to find it myself. I would also offer you, I've seen that as a superpower. So I've seen you in the jungle of Costa Rica, and we're tasked with digging a giant pit in mud that is just, I mean, we're not even confident it's mud. It's likely not mud. Um, and it was just, it was one of the most disgusting tasks I've I've ever been asked to do. And Patrick's just like, oh dude, let's take our shirts off and you know, let's play fun. And it was like, how did he just make this incredibly enjoyable? Like it's it's actually one of my favorite memories from that trip of standing in the mud with you, which I'll just make a quick connection to Simon Sinek's video he just put out. Um, he calls sitting in the mud that like opportunity to show up for your friend, which we've, you know, which you're talking about. He's like, Yeah, he's like, when if you don't call me and tell me that something's going on, you rob me of the opportunity to sit in the mud with my friend. Yeah. Right. So, but that was actually like a fun sitting in the mud. So I've I've seen that at play now in a way that's actually really life-giving for people around you. Yeah. And so I would offer you that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:02

Can I tap on that?

SPEAKER_05 2:08:03

Please. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:03

And also it's the adding, like what he's saying, it's like that's where you go. It's like, where is there joy in my life?

SPEAKER_07 2:08:09

Kind of like what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:10

Like, so that's another way to play with it of like, is it true? Byron Cady, all the people, you know, like, how do you know that that's actually true? And challenging the story that I don't let myself feel it, and then where are our pockets and like, and then it's just like one inch more, like it's just a little bit more each time. And that's where we expand our capacity for those things.

SPEAKER_06 2:08:29

Yeah, love that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:31

And having people point it out, which is why it's great to be in community, totally, right? Because we can have this story, and you're like, that's not true. Like, that's not how I see you tell me this stuff all the time.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:39

You don't show up like that.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:41

Like, I have a perception of myself sometimes that I need somebody else, humans, we're meant to be in community, to be like, actually that's true, or actually, no, it's not.

SPEAKER_05 2:08:48

Like, well, and that that really points back to um Chris Free's blog post that he did on the confidence, the mindset confidence loop, right? Where you go, okay, like I have this mindset, which could be a story I have, but then someone else might need to point out the evidence for you. Yes. Right? Like someone else may no, Sarah, like I hear that story and I challenge it because that's not how I'm experiencing you and the evidence of how you show up. Yeah. And then can you then take that evidence and change the story the next time coming into it, right? So that that really points back to that loop. Yeah. Um, so then the should word, right? When when I hear the should word, I and I intentionally playfully will say, like, hey, let's not should on ourselves. Yeah. Right. So start there, let's not should on ourselves and let's not should on other people. Like, and so yeah, obviously it's a play on the shit word, right? Let's not should on ourselves, not shit on other people. But it's pretty, it can sometimes be very similar. That's what it feels like when you're feeling should that way. And so my reframe on it is likely if should's coming up, there's some sort of invitation. So, like, what what are let's just get rid of that word and what are you feeling like you're being invited into, right? Where, and then I would take it to the one percent idea. So, like, what's yeah, what does one percent more joy potentially look like for you, Patrick? Like, what's one area that feels like low-hanging fruit where you're like, you know what? I need more joy here. Um does that make sense? Totally. That's kind of how I would tactfully or tactily, I don't know, whatever. I would like come in and get tactile about it. I love that. What would be the bucket that comes up first if you're like, hmm, one area where I could go like just one percent more joy?

SPEAKER_03 2:10:29

Hmm. So I think one of my wife's love language, love languages is traveling. Okay. And we've had this conversation often where like I up until we are at the location that we're going to, she sees zero joy. And I think it's part of this, it's part of the me knowing that I'm about to stop working and going onto a trip where I don't, yeah, you know, I'm not gonna be working. And so she's, you know, I mean, she does PowerPoint presentations for me and like, hey, should we go here? Should we go there and look at this place? And she makes Excel sheets and like look at this restaurant and by day by day. And I mean, she puts so much effort and it hurts me, right? Like knowing that she loves it so much, and I'm here, you know, wrestling with like, oh maybe should we leave? Should we not leave all this stuff?

SPEAKER_07 2:11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:11:16

Um, and so the 1% for me, I think, and I think might be more than 1% there, but that's like the low-hanging fruit, if you will, um, is allowing myself to be joyful in that journey with her. So that also when I show up to that place, it's like, man, like I'm this is awesome. This is amazing. We it's such a gift to have this opportunity for us to do this. Like all that hard work paid off so that we can be here and enjoy it in that moment. So it takes me a while to get there. Eventually I get there. Yeah, but that journey going there, it's muddy, it's muddy. And my wife can, you know, tell you this like it's like she's carrying all of the weight and she's dragging me basically into like, look, now we're here. Enjoy this. And I'm like, okay, now I'm here. There's nothing I can do. My computer's into the hotel, whatever. Now There's nothing I can do but to enjoy it. And so it takes a while for me to do that. And so it's not it's not like an easy like transition. It's just like a mud, mutt, mud, mutt, and then joy. So yeah. So thanks for that. No, that's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:13

And I think that's where like knowing our partner's story, right? Allows for more grace versus being like Patrick, get your shit together. Like, this is so fun. Why aren't you coming? Like that energy versus like acknowledging, yeah. I know, like, and I would even journal for you, like, who am I if I'm not working? And, you know, like, and just, you know, with your uncle stuff. But like understanding that just brings so much more grace to the conversation. And so that you can have that part of you honored that wants to work. You want to provide. Like, it's it's all of that. Um, yeah. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 2:12:45

Yeah. Um, I'm ready for Chrissy to plan a trip for me. I'll say, Oh, she's amazing.

SPEAKER_05 2:12:51

She's like, Can I see a PowerPoint presentation?

SPEAKER_03 2:12:54

She's amazing. I even jokingly said, I'm like, uh, well, I don't know if I can get into this. It doesn't have any music. And she just gave me a look at that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:04

She's incredible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:05

That's so fun.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:06

Very cool. Uh, what else you got on your radar, my friend?

SPEAKER_03 2:13:10

I'm just so thankful for Sarah. Like, I we've known each other for a little bit, but not in this capacity and not in this depth. Like just knowing your story and knowing all the things that you've gone through and the passion. I mean, you're a powerhouse, like incredible. And so it's such a gift, such a joy, honestly, to just be in here. Like, I want more of this. Like, this is not even long enough to scratch the surface on who you are and what you bring to the table, too, just as friends, as co-workers, as all the things. Like, I'm just so blessed and honored to have you. So I'm super stoked. You have so much to give. So um, yeah, if anybody, you know, it's wondering, getting wanting, wanting more of Sarah, like your podcast also. Like, yeah, I've I've listened to a bunch of your episodes, and it's amazing. I I I love it. So thanks. Keep sharing.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:55

Appreciate that. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 2:13:57

How about you, Sarah? Anything else on your radar?

SPEAKER_00 2:13:59

Anything on my radar if I want to say. Um just a reminder. I mean, Chris Fayel says this, and I've had to learn it. Benefit of the doubt, and we're all just doing the best we can. Not within being late, like, right? That can be a statement that we could also spar about and kind of are we doing the best we can?

SPEAKER_07 2:14:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 2:14:18

But in general, with those that, yeah, we love. So I'm just, yeah, I'm grateful to be here. Coaching is very like sacred experience, you know. Even I just I didn't want to pause without even just like even like your uncle coming to your mind, just want to honor him for entering the space somewhat, you know, and just like in that story. So I just wanted to also like close that loop of that popping in and then honoring that. Um, yeah, it's just it's a real gift, and I'm excited. Eventually, want to do some lighthouse retreats. I think that's gonna be awesome. We just have such a cool powerhouse and also just Josh and I having some conversations about the different coaches on the team because we are all so different. We have different backgrounds, we have different skill sets. Um, so I'm just excited the more people that we can serve in understanding that and like, okay, yeah, no, you'd be fit for this person or this person, or like, you know, even some of my clients, I'm like, oh, that's a Josh client. Like, I have one woman. I'm like, I'm always like, you're like a Josh, you're a Marine, you're like a dude, you know what I mean? And so, and that also sometimes the opposite type coaching is good, right?

SPEAKER_05 2:15:16

And then there are a few people that we're both coaching.

SPEAKER_00 2:15:18

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 2:15:19

And that's that's really fun, right? So like it's funny to hear, it's funny to hear their playback on like, I'll take that to Sarah and I'll take that to you. And like they, they are our they can start to understand the the differences between us and how we approach it. And yeah, it's really cool. What you just said about you know, us wanting to start offering some lighthouse retreats really points back to what I was saying about, you know, corporate, you know, call it executive leadership teams and wanting to push back on their environment. And so in some circles, I'm trying to advocate for them to take that lead and yeah, let's get out of this room, right? And then at the same time, we want to start building our own offerings where we can say, hey, come to us. Like traditionally or up to this point, it's really been lighthouse going out to organizations and partnering with them, and it's phenomenal. We love that. And we're really starting to strengthen that muscle and idea of people coming to us and coming here and and letting letting us work on you a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 2:16:17

Yeah. We just have such like if you're talking about coaching, giving you tools, yeah. We also have people, like we have such a wide variety of tools as people on our team, which is very unique and such a gift.

SPEAKER_05 2:16:29

Yeah. Anything that you're excited about that's coming up in the near future for you?

SPEAKER_00 2:16:33

I'm excited about. I just had a birthday, just had an anniversary. So we got those summer, just be fun. Um this fall will be interesting. So my I have my junior. So I have a junior in college, a junior in high school, and then a 12th, 12, not a 12th, a 12-year-old who's in sixth grade. But yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm just kind of really looking at like being intentional. What does it look like to lock in with Zach being a high a senior next year? Um, but just looking forward to travel in the summer and all those things.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:02

Sarah does a great job at pulling in the teen language. I'm just gonna lock in. Right. Like the kids, yeah, like that's so I'm in the same boat. Like the teen language just infiltrates.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:12

Yeah, like what? Even just last night, something like uh Zach and a buddy came home from the gym and they were talking, I'm like, what is that? And they both just quickly like teach me the ways that yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:20

Well, Chris sent me an email yesterday, and it was a a client was asking for you know another engagement. He's like, You're cooking. And I'm like, look, dude, you are such a teenager.

SPEAKER_10 2:17:28

Like yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:30

But the cooking's one of those that can be good, but if you're cooked, you're done. That's bad. Yep, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:34

You're done.

SPEAKER_01 2:17:35

Man, English is so complex.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:38

Yeah, yeah. You should just speak in Spanish now.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:41

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you for coming. This was absolutely amazing. Um, we've been having to say it to most people. First of several, if not many, we should definitely do this again. Uh, super glad that you were here. So thanks a lot.

SPEAKER_00 2:17:54

Yeah, thank you guys.

SPEAKER_05 2:17:56

Thank you.