Why Setting Matters—Building the World of Your Story

Ellie Alexander and the Tech Guy explore the role of setting in storytelling and why the places where stories unfold are just as important as the characters themselves. Ellie shares how she approaches choosing locations for her books, including the decision between using real places and creating fictional towns.

They also discuss the advantages of small-town versus big-city settings in mystery novels, the research writers do to bring locations to life, and how sensory details like smells, sounds, and atmosphere can make readers feel like they’re inside the story.

The episode provides practical advice for writers, including how to track important details about your fictional world so your setting stays consistent throughout an entire series.

🎉 Join me on Patreon for bonus content.

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Transcript

Ellie Alexander 0:04

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights. I am Author Ellie Alexander and I am here with The Tech Guy.

Tech Guy 0:14

Hello.

Ellie Alexander 0:14

The Tech Guy.

Tech Guy 0:16

Uh got an exciting topic for this week. Before we get into that, though, let's uh just ask all the darlings out there like if you're enjoying reality rights, um, go ahead and give us a like, uh, give us a rating on your favorite podcast, and we're gonna share this with a friend or family member that is into books or writing.

Ellie Alexander 0:35

I love that. And um, I also have to say, full disclosure, we gotta deal with the elephant in the room, which is that if I have a slight lisp, it's because I'm wearing Invisalign, darlings, and it's taking me back to being a 15-year-old with braces. So apologies in advance for that. But you know, you gotta do what you gotta do.

Tech Guy 0:58

Yeah, well, yeah. It's uh it's been an adjustment for you, though. Um, that's for sure. The whole like taking them out, eating, putting them back in.

Ellie Alexander 1:08

We could have a whole episode on that that no one wants to hear. Am I complaining a lot? Yes, yes, I am.

Tech Guy 1:14

Totally different experience from the uh typical like metal braces, like the full-time braces, right?

Ellie Alexander 1:20

So yeah, yeah, exactly. But because we're talking about setting today, I have to be really conscientious of how I'm saying my S's. I am not day drinking if you hear an extra little.

Tech Guy 1:33

Not not today, anyway.

Ellie Alexander 1:35

So oh gosh, yeah.

Tech Guy 1:39

All right. Uh yeah, so today we're gonna cover off on all things settings. So this will be interesting for readers and writers. Uh, I think you'll probably you'll be dropping some knowledge bombs um and uh really uh um talking about the importance of setting because for your series in particular, I know that setting has been a pretty big deal over the years.

Ellie Alexander 2:01

Kind of a big deal, yeah. A little bit. It's true.

Tech Guy 2:05

Yeah. Uh so where do we even start?

Ellie Alexander 2:08

Well, I mean, I think we should start with um what it takes in terms of setting something in a real place. So, especially in a cozy, there is an opportunity. If you happen to have a place that feels really warm and community driven, it's charming. Maybe your location has a lovely little historic downtown or a cool park or a nature preserve preserve, like using any of those elements around you to create a sense of place is really a great starting point because I think one of the reasons that readers and darlings that are in this group come back to the cozy is for that sense of place because they want to step into a story that feels warm and like a place where you're walking through town and everyone knows your name and is gonna wave hello and you're gonna go to your favorite coffee shop or knitting spot. So there are so many great real world elements that you can weave into a cozy. For me, I've written two, well, three really, but um two for sure series, both the Sloan Krause mysteries and the big shop mysteries that are set in real places, Ashland and Leavenworth, Washington. And there are some real pros with that because the community gets really involved too. I think one of the gifts of setting your mystery in a real location is that the town might get really excited about it and they might support you, not only the local shops, but this could turn into something like the Ashland Mystery Fest, where Travel Ashland and the whole town has embraced the stories. So that can be a real gift, I think.

Tech Guy 3:49

Yeah, for sure. I mean, and with both Ashland and Livenworth, there's been a lot of uh people and business owners, particularly, who've been super excited to, you know, be featured in your books. But one uh one question I did have because I know this comes up for it's come up from readers quite a bit and writers too, um, particularly some of your coaching and uh mystery series masterclass course students. What about using real business names in books? Because I know that some of the like Ashland as a city, let's just use Ashland from the Big Shop Mysteries as an example. Ashland is is, you know, a um a real city, but um a lot of the businesses have different names in the books than they do in in real life.

Ellie Alexander 4:38

Right. There's not really a steadfast rule per se, but um, my slant has always been that any place that I'm gonna talk about that is real, I want to be shining a good light on that. So um the caveat for Ashland, the example that I always use is the Mary Windsor Hotel, which is this dilapidated, run-down, Shakespearean-themed hotel with like these gross old shag green carpets and statellites falling off the roof line. That is fake. That's really city hall, and the building is not dilapidated. Like if you've been to Ashland, it's it's nice. Um, so I think if you're writing about something that is that really has a negative slant, you might want to be pretty conscientious about that piece of it. But otherwise, you can use real business names. Sometimes I have. Most of the time, I try to take something like, let's say Oberons, which in the book is Pucks, that really exists, and then make it my own, like put a little spin on it myself. Like I might take the bones of a place and then really flesh it out with my own version of what I would imagine that looks like. I think that's a pretty safe bet. I also think that one of the things you have to be really careful about, and especially in writing a cozy, is the idea of taking any sort of real tragedy that has occurred in a town and using that as the baseline for a story.

Tech Guy 6:08

Yeah.

Ellie Alexander 6:09

So the example I always think of is that when we were living in Ashland, uh, Sky Guy was on his first day of Zoom during COVID, and um all of his friends and classmates and teachers started logging off immediately because a wildfire had broken out and ended up burning so much of the Rogue Valley and the adjacent towns next to us. I'm never gonna use that in a cozy. Like I'm never gonna add that layer in because it's just it's too real, it's too raw. And if you're writing about a real place, there's gonna be a lingering tragedy for all of the people who experience that. So that for me is kind of a fine line. Now, if you were writing true crime, you might take, you know, a murder or something like that and obviously um use all of those details. But I think in a cozy, that that's a pretty clear line for me. That's like a nah, not gonna go there.

Tech Guy 7:03

Yeah, it's not not very cozy knowing how many real life people lost homes and businesses and property and pets and everything during that fire. It was those scary times. So yeah, definitely um that makes sense. Um, what are some of the cons of using real life places in your writing? Uh like in terms of setting.

Ellie Alexander 7:27

Yeah. So I mean, one of the cons can be the same. It's like the the double-edged sword, right? It's also a pro. So the pro is that the community might really rally behind your books and get excited and and be sending, like I get so many emails from darlings out there who live in the places that I've set my books, who are always, you know, they have a wealth of ideas for me for future books. But then you can have people who feel really protective of their space. Um, and if I call something, something slightly different, or you know, I change some little version of a town to make it my own, I will get feedback from darlings, from readers sometimes that are like, you know, you know, the name of that mountain is actually this, or, you know, you said that this street turns to the left and it really turns to the right. Or, you know, like you can get into the real nitty-gritty sometimes of a real space. So I think, I think that can be a con for sure.

Tech Guy 8:26

Yeah, you're talking about Mount Pitt.

Ellie Alexander 8:29

Totally. That's just one of many, though. Like there have been so many over the years of people who were like, you know, actually Ashland Creek should be Ashland. I don't know, you know, like there's always there because people, you know, have lived in these areas their entire life. They have an attachment, they have the history. Um, and so that is something for I think new readers to be thoughtful of if you're thinking about setting your mystery in a real place to make sure you're super familiar with it. And then that you're making a concerted, like pointed choice to make that space your own, right? Yeah. Because ultimately in Ashela to this point in time, there have been like 25 murders. So like totally.

Tech Guy 9:10

And that's always my right, right. And that's always my point, too, is like at the end of the day, um the the hill that people choose the readers in particular choose to die on sometimes about the you know, details is pretty wild because you're reading fiction, and as you just said, Ashland, Oregon, town of 20-ish thousand people, has had 25 murders in the span of just a few years. Like, no one's moving there. If that were real, no one's moving there. But to name a mountain and the mount pit thing always cracks me up because for it for the darlings that don't know, when you're driving down I-5 southbound, heading toward Ashland, you come over this hill and you'll see a big mountain off to the left, and there's a sign right there that has an arrow and it says Mount McLaughlin, and it's pointing that way, you know. And um, but for people who have lived in the Rogue Valley for a long time, that mountain used to be called something else, and it used to be called Mount Pitt, and they've held on to that. And more than one reader has told you about that over the years.

Ellie Alexander 10:13

Oh yeah, oh yeah, for sure. I think, um, I think in terms of setting too, like there's so much you can do based on it being a small town like Ashland, like that, where readers have this whole history. It's easier to kind of capture that cozy vibe. Whereas if you're setting something in a big city, let's say like Chicago or New York or San Francisco, there might be like a little bit more grittiness to your mystery, or like how you find a way to carve out coziness within a big city. Uh, one great example that I think uh has done that so well is the Coffee House series by Cleo Coyle. They're set in New York, but what Cleo Coyle has done is taken like a little section of New York and made it a village. Um, so you still get that same vibe of walking through the village and everybody knows your name and going into the coffee house and having this real sense of connection within a big city. Um, but then there are things that are a gift in terms of setting something in a place like the Rogue Valley, which is much more remote. You leave Lithia Park back in the day. Like, you know, we'd walk up just past the first reservoir in lithium in Lithia Park. And once you get up there, like cell service is gone. Um, so you can do a lot more with a sleuth and make it more believable that Jules is out for a run on the trails and she stumbles upon a killer and she really doesn't have a way to get in touch with the local police. Like that is believable in Ashland, Oregon. Is that believable in New York City? Probably not. So, like, structurally speaking, I think there are some key elements. If you are a new writer who's working on a setting, that you have to be conscientious of if you're creating that space, um, whether it's in a big town, a small town. Now, if you're making up your own space, you get to decide.

Tech Guy 12:12

Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about that before. But even if you were to say you're up on a hike and you manage to, you know, the killer's after you and you manage to get out to the road and you you and you're in Ashland and you suddenly you have cell service, you would even calling the police, it's gonna take them 20, 30 minutes to get to you, you know. In in New York City, it might be, well, it might take just as long. I don't know, but it seems like it could take like two minutes, and you know, there'd there'd be somebody there um just because of the the sheer, it's a numbers game, right? So that yeah, that would those are all things I guess that would be um items to really take into consideration when when um plotting out your setting for for your mystery.

Ellie Alexander 12:58

Right. Well, and then the other kind of dovetail piece of that is the very first year we did Ashela Mystery Fest, we had the chief of police on a panel with us to discuss all of the things that like would and would not happen in a cozy mystery from the perspective of someone who would be investigating, let's say, a murder case, right? But there are again some gifts in setting something in a really small town because you probably aren't going to have the same level of like forensic or forensics. Um, or you know, it might take days, if not weeks or months, to get information back from labs based on how busy they are, all of those sort of things. Plus, there are so many things that Chief Omira discussed that the police can use in terms of cell phone tracking and geolocations and things like that. That of course, again, in New York City, you're gonna have to be really well aware of, even if it's a cozy, like that part has to be believable. If you're in Ashland, Oregon, and you're way up in the Siskiy Mountains, like the police might not have the same kind of access to your cellular data and footprint that way. So yeah, it's a lot.

Tech Guy 14:09

Yeah, that that comes up a lot on um some of our favorite BBC mysteries, like uh Death in Paradise, Return to Paradise, Beyond Paradise, all all the paradises. All the paradises. Um, because they're all set in very small and in some cases island-based towns. And it's like, oh, this murder happens, and the medical examiner, who's also like the local postal inspector and city council member, um, you know, yeah, exactly. Um, they like gather all the evidence, but then they have to ship it off to a lab and the and then they always tell the detective who is always just put out completely that, oh, you know, it's gonna be three, four days before we get the results back. And I'm like, what?

Ellie Alexander 14:50

Yeah, right. But you can use that to your advantage if you're setting a mystery in, you know, a smaller place or somewhere that's more remote for for that.

Tech Guy 15:00

Yeah, for sure. All right. So big city, little city, pros and cons. What about doing research, deciding where you're going to set your mystery? Um, you you've talked about it before, but like uh for those who haven't heard, why don't you describe a little bit about how you do it and like the the tips that you give other writers um when it comes to doing research for setting?

Ellie Alexander 15:26

Yeah, I think going to a place, and we'll and we'll loop back next to if you can't go to a place, right? But if you have the ability to go to the place that you want to set your novel, do that. Do that immediately. I mean, of course, there's a treasure trove of information available online and on the internet. You can watch videos, all of those sort of things, but it's not the same ever as physically being in a space. So I'm working on a new book. And yesterday we took a day trip out to Half Moon Bay because that's where the book's gonna be set. And we walk the streets, and I took probably a thousand videos and photos of all of the little things that uh we would miss, you know, like, are you gonna see the mural that's down an alley or like that cool gate that you found with the lock on it? Like they're all those kind of tiny little details. There's also like the smells and, you know, like what's the vibe of town on a Saturday morning during like, you know, on a sunny spring day? Like, are the streets empty? Are they bustling? Talking to shop owners, there's just there's so much more sensory information that you can gather if you can physically go to a space and just take copious notes, photos, videos, anything that you can do to really center yourself in there and then weave in those small little details, like, you know, the cracks on the sidewalk or the way the beach grasses are flowing that just really help anchor readers in the story and make it feel real.

Tech Guy 17:05

Yeah, that's that that's that's really good. I I hadn't thought about things like smells and sounds and everything. That that would be hard to gather those types of inputs if you didn't have the ability to go to wherever you were setting it. Are there I I I imagine there's gotta be ways though. Um uh that would be interesting to find some resources for people that that you know, where you could get videos. I mean, one thing would be to really comb social media, especially, because pretty much every if there is a town or city out there, I feel like the uh Instagram travel bloggers have got it covered, right? They've got tons of videos on that you can watch and that and kind of maybe get some of that, obviously, not the smells, um, but uh, but definitely get some of that that sensory information by watching those videos.

Ellie Alexander 18:00

Yeah, not everyone can afford to go to the place that you want to write about, right? Like I would love to set a book in the south of France. I've never been to the south of France. Um, maybe we should go. Uh is is it a write-off for research? Also, yes. So that's a pro. But um it's not it's not an every budget, right? To travel to a place that you might want to use. And and in this instance, I'm talking about using that place as a real setting. You want to start your book in the south of France. You've never been to France. There's so much you can do. Not only what you're saying about just combing the internet, social media, but like what are the pieces of France that you can experience somewhere near you? So is there a small local vineyard or an orchard or a lavender farm that you can go walk through for an hour one afternoon and again try to get that sight, smell, touch, taste? Is there a French restaurant within a two-hour drive that you can go and have a French meal? Can you go to your local library and take out, check out any DVDs? And I would say a DVD that is in French. It doesn't matter that you speak French. You're just gonna watch a real French film and pick up like, how are people talking? How are they walking? What are they wearing? What is the cafe? So there are so many other things you could do. You could um interview a local high school French teacher. So I think the key is that if you're going to set a book in a place that's real, you want to be as much of an expert as you can about that place. Um, and then once it comes to actually publishing that book, you're probably gonna want to get some beta readers or get eyes on it by somebody who has actually been to France or better yet lives in France.

Tech Guy 19:53

Yeah, that's those are all great suggestions. Um because there's so much, right? There's just there's so much uh that goes into setting and you things that you probably take for granted when you're just walking around your own neighborhood and everything, you want to be kind of hyper aware of when you're you visiting either in person or virtually the place that you're going to eventually set your book in. Um, just making sure that, you know, you're not putting things like um the wrong kind of tree in a location that doesn't exist, right? Because that's the kind of thing I feel like those are the details that readers will call out. Um, you know, it it like you can make up a business, no problem. But if you put a certain type of cedar tree in an area that where it does not grow, you're gonna hear about that, right?

Ellie Alexander 20:45

Well, yeah, and not only hear about it, but um the experience as a reader, that's gonna pull you out of the story because we as writers, we want somebody to be fully immersed in the story. So that setting should feel seamless. It is just part of what you're experiencing. So I'm thinking like, I read a book years ago that um, and you know, we both grew up and lived in Portland for most of our adult lives, that talked about how the Columbia River ran through downtown Portland. No, it doesn't. That's that's the Willamette. So the minute I'm reading that, I'm like done with the story because I'm like, wait, hold up. Like, and those are the kind of details that if you're not familiar with a place, the Columbia River, yes, it runs between Portland and Vancouver, it divides Oregon and Washington. If you're just looking on a map or you're watching some blogs, like you might not be able to get that level of detail if you're not doing a lot of extra research. So that's what I'm saying in terms of you you want to make sure that you are really grounded in reality. Or create your own completely fictional place too, which is totally acceptable and happens all the time.

Tech Guy 21:51

Yeah. So I that that brings up an interesting question, though, because like with both Ashland and Leavenworth, um, and Redwood. Grove uh for the secret bookcase mysteries. Um you have elements that are based in reality. Obviously, Ashland and um Leavenworth are real uh cities. Redwood Grove happens to be a like what's it called? Um it's not a city, it's uh whatever. Anyway, but well, I found it on the map the the like a few weeks ago when we were looking at something.

Ellie Alexander 22:22

Right, yeah, yeah.

Tech Guy 22:23

Like nearby here up in the Santa Cruz Mountains, which we were blown away by, but um uh yeah. But so you have these real cities, and but then you have places that are you have some places that are real, although you've changed the names, and then you have some places that don't exist. Um, so how do you balance that? Because you you don't want to make up things that are going to pull readers out who really know a place very well, but at the same time it's really hard to work with maybe within the confines of the reality of a small town and and all of its, you know, bits and pieces. And you might want to move some things around to fit with the plot of your mysteries. So, how do you find that balance?

Ellie Alexander 23:12

Yeah, I think it is a delicate balance, and I think you just want to know that place really well to be able to do it well, um, so that you aren't messing with something that is that my example of the Columbia versus the Willamette, like some like if I said that Mount A was in Lithia Park, you know, or like I mean, technically it is above Lithia Park. But if I said, like, you walk from the bake shop and you're on the ski slope, right? Like readers, anyone who's been to Ashland will be like, no, you don't. Like that kind of thing, I think is going to pull you out of the story. But there is that nice balance point where you're using a real setting, you're taking the key elements that are going to make that town quintessentially cozy, which is we what we want out of this style of book. And then, yeah, you're embellishing it. There was no brew pub. There was no nitro in downtown Leavenworth when I first started writing that book. Now there is coincidence? I don't know. Um, it was just like an old, not old, but it was like a sausage shop. And I was like, oh, that's where I want nitro. So I used the exterior and then I made it my own. So I think, I think you have creative license. I think if you're creating your own town too, this is where you really get to shine in terms of taking whatever real elements you can experience yourself. So I don't know, let's say you live in Minnesota and you're gonna create a town on one of the lakes, like go to a lake that's by you and then take all of the elements, or you can like pluck. Oh, okay, I really like the dock here and I like the cabins from this one, and I want the size to be this. Like you can get really creative because it's your own town. The one caveat is you need to be consistent and you really need to make a map.

Tech Guy 25:05

I was gonna ask about maps next. Yeah, that's funny. I also, what you were just talking about made me think of something that we'll talk about in the after party over on Patreon because uh there are a couple of places that you I feel like you have literally willed into existence through the writing in your pages in both Ashland and Leavenworth. And it's been mind-blowing. But yeah, we'll go into that later. So um, yeah, but but but maps, maps are a great, great idea. Because I I love a good map at the beginning of a book because you know, if an author is talking about all these places, and I get it in my head, okay, this is over here, and then you go that way to get to this other place, and then you realize later in a book, wait, that's that's maybe not correct, or you, or maybe the author doesn't realize that that it's that it's correct. And yeah, uh, yeah. So, so yeah, talk about maps.

Ellie Alexander 25:59

I think consistency is the key here, right? So um for any you can there's some ASMR. For any darlings who are just listening, I'm holding up a map of Ashland that I had a local artist in Ashland create of what I think the plaza looks like from Juliet's perspective and where tort would be and the Mary Windsor and all of those sort of things. So if you're using a real place, you you need a map of that because I don't want to in book one say that the flower shop is two doors down, and then in book five, it's six doors down, right? So you as a writer need to ground yourself in that space. Even if it's a real place, you are like like we've talked about, you're probably gonna be moving some things around, or you're gonna have to think about naming, or like as the series expands, you need more locations to hide bodies. So thinking through that, if you're creating a fictional space, like when I was working on Redwood Grove, you don't want to see it. It's hideous. It's my line drawings, but like, okay, where's where's the bookstore? Where is the square? Where is Annie's house? Like you want to make sure that when you're referencing that in your writing, you have a really clear idea of where everything is so that the readers don't get lost either. And so that then, God forbid, three or four books into a series, you have moved some massive landmark to a completely other section of town. Like, ooh, that's a bad look.

Tech Guy 27:34

Yeah, that's that's really interesting because you've you've talked about having, you know, kind of keeping track of those details for characters in the past, but it it never really occurred to me that it's super important to keep track of the same sort of details for the places, the setting in in every book. And especially when you're writing a series that goes 22, 25 books, you got to remember where every business is and where every you know office is and where everybody's apartment is, or like whatever, so that you don't have the main character taking five minutes to walk home one day, but then taking 20 minutes to walk home two books later, and they're like, wait, would she just walking a lot slower? Like, what's happening here, you know?

Ellie Alexander 28:14

Absolutely. And I think one nugget of advice that I have for any new writers in this phase of building out your setting is to think bigger from the start. You know, so if you are thinking you're creating this little cozy village with a town square in the center, think about your series, maybe going 10, 15, 20 books, and what else you're gonna need. So don't make that world too small. Leave yourself room for possibility that will then work. Because if you've described this tiny little town that's hours away from anything else, and now suddenly, you know, you need a farm to table dinner or, you know, whatever it is, like thinking about like, okay, so here's the village. What else is around it? How far is the next major city? Is it on a coastline? Is it near the mountains? Like what all surrounds it too for future books?

Tech Guy 29:07

Oh, that's very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Cause you don't want your small little town of 20,000 people to suddenly have to have 50,000 people in like the span of two books just to create, you know, whatever else is necessary to fit your plot. Um, that's that's wild. Yeah.

Ellie Alexander 29:23

And then the same thing for like street names, naming streets, because as somebody's walking, you know, I mean, maybe it's all just gonna be Main Street or the street, but it adds that next layer of authenticity if you're like, oh, I'm walking on Elm Street. Okay, well, now you got to remember that Elm Street is in the book and where is it? So you want to have another visual visual touch point to go back to every every time you're writing that series to be like, okay, that's right. Elm Street connects to this park. And then she takes, you know, like so. You really you want to be more detailed in your map andor your like list of all of the businesses, libraries, parks, etc. in town than than you might think you need to be.

Tech Guy 30:08

Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, and the the one rule to take away from all that is to stay away from Elm Street. Like any of the darlings out there that were of media consumption age back in the 80s, you know what I'm talking about. So bad things happen on Elm Street. That's all I'm gonna say.

Ellie Alexander 30:22

Nightmares, you might say, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Tech Guy 30:25

Big time. Oh, now I'm creeped out. That's crazy. Um, all right. Anything else that you want to any other uh pieces of knowledge you wanted to um impart on writers out there before we wrap this episode up on setting.

Ellie Alexander 30:45

No, I think setting is so fascinating because it really does set the tone for everything. Um, and for me, I want setting to feel like a character. I want you to feel like you know Ashland and Leavenworth and Brewood Grove, and these are places you want to visit and you want to spend time, and you can see them and you can taste them and you can smell them. So all that work that I do to research them hopefully finds its way onto the page and then, you know, pulls readers into that experience.

Tech Guy 31:17

Yeah, that's so awesome. All right. Well, that does it for this episode of Reality Rights. Um, now we're gonna head over to the after party and we're gonna talk about a few things, one of which I mentioned that came up during that episode. I want to talk about a few places that I believe Ellie has willed into existence through her writing and more. But uh thanks so much for listening. And uh, if you're interested in the after party, head over to Ellie's Patreon, patreon.com, just search for Ellie Alexander and you'll find her. I'll put the link in the show notes. But uh otherwise, uh until next time, everyone.

Ellie Alexander 31:54

Until next time.