Building A Life We Love

We start the podcast by sharing why we’ve been drawn to a work-from-home life where we build businesses, raise kids, and do marriage as a real partnership. We talk about the risks we’ve taken, the fears we still feel, and the habits that keep us learning without getting trapped by hustle culture. 
• choosing entrepreneurship for control over our time and values 
• what it means to live and work together nearly always 
• lessons from high-risk bets and why real estate feels “safer” when done right 
• parenting with open dialogue and treating kids as observant humans 
• modeling ethics and leadership at home and at work 
• dropping the 50-50 scoreboard and taking a long-term team view 
• fear versus bravery and why “fearless” is the wrong goal 
• why ideas are common and execution is the hard part 
• telling your story, validating demand, and avoiding founder blind spots 
• sales as listening, questions, and rapport rather than pitching 
• “selling out,” money shame, and how relationships change with success 
• rejecting hustle culture and building schedules that fit real bodies and minds 
• balancing the cost of success with sustainable health and happiness 
We'd love to know what you guys think. And if this is of interest to you, any topics you'd like us to explore, we would love to hear from you. 

Transcript

Opening Lines And Tone

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Built this empire from the ground. Never backing down.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Never bound. Two hearts, one vision, we stay true. And the figure of it. And the flips of it.

Why We Finally Start This

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Alright, here we are.

SPEAKER_06 0:28

We're here.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

We're here. So what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 0:32

Finally doing a podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Yes. Talking about this for how many years now? A few?

SPEAKER_06 0:36

Yeah, many years now. I think we've been wanting to share more about our personal life and you know, our life in business together and as parents and partners. And this is a good opportunity to do that.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Absolutely. It's it's one of those things where we get, I suppose, a number of questions, some concerned glances occasionally, puzzled looks.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

How do you do it all?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Concerned looks, inquisitive looks. There's a lot of different approaches to sort of our life and our history of entrepreneurship, parenting, coaching, uh all these different things that we've worked on over the last few years, really since we got together. And it's always interesting to have that conversation and start to relate some of the story. And then it often leads into more questions. So I suppose now we can just point them, go listen to episodes.

SPEAKER_06 1:28

That's right. Well, and the I mean, the long and short of it is we work together, obviously we live together, we work from home.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 1:36

And obviously do life together. So we are together almost all of the time.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Especially now. I think in the earlier years we had to be more selective about who was home, who was not. Um there was always somebody at home.

SPEAKER_05 1:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

But it was definitely a rotating carousel at times. As the kids have gotten a bit older and as we've are taken more of our individual projects and now are doing more things together. I think we spend even more time together, which is an interesting one. We're married 16 years. We're closer now than we were then, and we spend all our time together.

SPEAKER_04 2:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

It's quite often when I share that part, eyes go wide, like, and you haven't killed each other yet. Like you still like each other, let alone like are in love. Like that's a I think that's an interesting one. Then obviously we'll talk more about that. But that's one of the things that that certainly I don't want to say men, but men often are the most like puzzled by or surprised by. Sometimes jealous, sometimes just you're insane. But it's an interesting one.

SPEAKER_06 2:40

Well, and it was, I mean, it's not by accident. It's it was absolutely very intentional, I think, for me individually, first, obviously before before we were married, but I I really knew I did not want to be in a corporate world. I did not want to be in a corporate environment. I did not want to, you know, not be able to choose how I want to spend my days, even if sometimes the days are crazy. At least it's my choice or our choice, right? And I and I think that's what a lot of entrepreneurs or or hope to be entrepreneurs want is that control in in your day.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

And that means a lot.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

And there's no one else to blame.

SPEAKER_06 3:18

That's true, too.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

You can't blame anybody else, which is a gift and a curse.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

But it allows you to make choices, understanding that the full brunt of that choice falls on your shoulders, which is freeing. And it's also what can keep you up late at night. Like there's a it's a double-edged thing.

SPEAKER_06 3:34

It definitely definitely has and does, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:37

And it's it's not a it's not a straight line journey. There's a lot of exits and ups and downs and everything in between. But yeah, that's been, I think, something really intentional that we have wanted to do. I started my career in real estate and it was a serious, you know grind for a lot of years. And we did kind of have our own companies, but we also really stayed supportive of one another or like involved in each other's businesses, even though we had separate businesses. Like we really stayed very involved with each other that way, which I think is unique. And yes, sometimes we were passing ships in the night. Is that what they say? Passing ships in the night. And but it did afford us to be in something I'm really proud of, is like our kids were always at home when they were, they never, they never went to, you know, daycare not that there's nothing wrong with that. And and people have to do what they have to do, but it that was really something that I wanted to achieve for us. And I'm really, really proud of that. And that was important to me as a mom. And there were many things that I missed over the years when they were younger as well, or you missed, and we but that was an important thing, is they had that consistency, and I'm really grateful and lucky that we were able to do that.

Choosing Entrepreneurship And Taking Risks

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah, and like looking back now, you can see especially in the early days before we had kids and we were, you know, first dating and they engaged. You know, we were involved in higher risk investments. It was in the restaurant business, that's not exactly a low-risk endeavor. Real estate was always a backbone of all these things that we did. Individually, we had investments in real estate. Then we got together. It was a shared passion, a shared backbone of our lives together. And then obviously you got into selling real estate and and and we started making these decisions around fairly high-risk, high reward approach to building a life. And so I think looking back on it now, we can share a lot of lessons learned. Um, and but also success stories and moments where you can look back and do the calculus of was that worth it? Would I tell myself to do it again? To do it again. You know, clearly I'm very happy with where I am. I would I don't believe in regrets or going back and but you can certainly learn.

SPEAKER_06 5:45

Yeah, and and things that we would have done better.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Yeah, and things you tell our kids and you know, give them now. You have to live it yourself. The best education is experience for sure. But sometimes it's good to know, you know, what what you might have not been aware of at the time. You know, we we certainly we certainly haven't spent the last 16 years of marriage without mistakes. Yeah. But we've generally, generally, you especially have only made a mistake once. That's that's the trick. You know.

SPEAKER_06 6:15

I've only made a mistake once.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

We make a mistake, you learn from it. You don't make the same mistake. Not even I'm that nice.

SPEAKER_06 6:28

No, we've made lots of mistakes, but we've also kind of do well being uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:35

Uh and and and I think, you know.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Pathologically so.

SPEAKER_06 6:40

Probably a little bit more. Early days probably a little more bad. Yes, like constantly uncomfortable and constantly pushing and growing and improving in every aspect of our life. Like I'm really proud of that. Obviously, certain years are better, and but we have continuously pushed to to grow our marriage, our relationship, being better as parents. You know, we even ask our kids for feedback. Like how like how how how are we doing, you know, and what can we do better and are very honest about what we know we can improve upon and ask the questions maybe you might not want to hear the answer to as well.

Parenting With Open Dialogue

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's that's a I think a really pivotal thing that we both aligned with was the pushing to grow is individuals as a partnership, as parents. We have a lot of feelings and opinions around parenting. We're really proud of our kids. They're 14 and 12 now, and they get rave reviews in the public. It's not just our own personal thing. And it's because we spend a lot of time and energy. It's it's because we've both believed from a young age, they're not just because they're a child doesn't mean they're slow, you know. They're a developing brain, but they see so much more than than I think sometimes parents give them credit for. Um, and so having an open dialogue and how that's grown into, you know, now I'm coaching 14-year-olds and 13-year-olds and seeing what comes of that and and seeing the effects of those parenting decisions. And how does that fit with what we're choosing to do in the entrepreneur space? And when we build teams, how do we treat those people? Like there, there's these things that I think people look at as siloed topics and siloed initiatives. Like, I'm gonna do this as a parent, and then I'm gonna do this as a career, and then I'm gonna do this as a hobby. And they don't necessarily think about how those things can like bleed and feed into each other and and affect it all being one pool. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it and it really is, especially when you live the way we do, where we're available all the time, but also working all the time. So you have there has to be a certain level of bleed and effect of how you make decisions, how you treat people, how you make ethical decisions while also trying to be a smart business person. Your kids see that. Like they're there, they're there witnessing it. And you can tell your kids a thousand things, but they're gonna learn the most from witnessing how we act, right?

SPEAKER_06 9:01

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:02

I think well, our son Aiden has expressed wanting to be self-employed or our daughter's an artist, so we'll see what she does with that. But but they absolutely see the example that we're setting, and it's pretty cool to see. And also that it's not always even. You know, I think there's in marriage you can get stuck in this, like, you know, I did this or you did that. And uh we we've, you know, looking back too, it's like at some times there's it's, you know, someone's unwell or there's health issues, or there's things going on. And you really everyone says to work it like a team, but like take the scorecard out of it. Yeah. Because certain years, certain times, it could be heavily weighted, one person is doing more this way or another way, but there's all these components of the entire pool together.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 9:47

That you you really got to take that out of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah, it's gonna be a long-term view. Uh sure you're a team, but that doesn't mean every team is 50-50 down the line, drawn in the middle.

SPEAKER_06 9:57

No.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

And I think if you put those sort of expectations on how a thing should be, you're closing yourself off to what it could be.

SPEAKER_04 10:06

Yeah.

Marriage Without Keeping Score

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Um, should versus could is an interesting kind of conversation as well. And I think I think as we go forward with this conversation, this podcast, we'll have these sort of topics that we've spend a lot of time at parenting is obviously one of them entrepreneurship, mental health, like our passions in life, all these physical health. We both have our buckets of challenges that way.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

We've been involved in a few different industries, all pretty high risk, real estate being the safest one. And you know, talking to a realtor over at the Kreb conference the other day, he kind of was laughing at that being the safe one. But yeah, but when you do it right, it should be, right? If you're not speculating and you're not, you know, just winging it or pre-saling like the market in Toronto, but that will be a subject for another day, I'm sure. And, you know, uh me being a fairly high risk on individual from the day we met, you know, it was always someone that I did not want. Like I said, when we got married, I can't promise you it's gonna be safe. I can't promise you it's gonna be easy, but I can promise you you'll never be bored. And so far, so far that's been pretty true. We're not bored. And you know, you've returned the favor there many times. You've certainly made sure that I wasn't bored either. No. And that's I think that's part of the part of what's been really interesting to see how we've been able to take chances individually and then support each other's chances and be, you know, back to your point of 50-50, right? Like it's not one's driving the other one's support all the time. It's we we've even changed those positions depending on the initiative, depending on the risk, depending on the fear as well.

SPEAKER_06 11:39

Like when you talk about a new concept or a new business, or you want to try something, and like we both have constantly have ideas all the time. There is so many things we could be doing. And so I think this podcast too is like I'd like to share more about how there absolutely is fear. There absolutely was fear, there absolutely is uncertainty question marks, but we also have a an unwavering belief in one another, if that's how you put it.

SPEAKER_04 12:06

Like, also potentially.

Fear, Bravery, And Backing Each Other

SPEAKER_06 12:08

I think we I think we, you know, if if one of us is really passionate about doing something, like it's okay, then let's do it. You know, how do we start? But I think from the outside it can look like it's easy or or that you know it's all put together and everything is great, and you only see those good moments, right? So hopefully this will be more of a realistic look.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, and I think I think that's a very important thing around fear. If you don't have fear, that's probably an indicator that you're not paying attention. Yeah. Like I think I think you know, bravery or whatever, it's a very common thing. Bravery is is is not the absence of fear, it's having fear and doing it anyways.

SPEAKER_05 12:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

And I think that even as I explain how I feel about you, I've stopped using fearless and started using brave more because I don't think that fearless is necessarily accurate or fair.

SPEAKER_06 12:59

No.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

I think you kind of have to be a bit of a sociopath to be fearless.

SPEAKER_06 13:02

And those I have fear all the time.

Ideas Mean Nothing Without Action

SPEAKER_00 13:04

Yeah, and those people exist and they're doing fine, and some aren't. But for us, there's there is certainly a level of fear always. And I think it can be healthy. I think it can keep you grounded and keep you checked, but it can also be paralyzing if you don't understand, understand it. So I think that that's a topic that we'll talk a lot more about. Yeah. And then the other one is ideas. I mean, we've, like you said, we've had constant, we always have ideas every, every every day. And I I know I'll say it all the time. I get approached by a lot of entrepreneurs about ideas and concepts. And now I've worked on on sort of different levels. I've done business development, I've been an entrepreneur myself, I've seen been an investor, I've seen it from a lot of different angles, as have you. So that conversation around ideas, and like they're like assholes, everybody's got one, right? Like I've got one a day easily. Yeah. That could be a great business, but it doesn't fucking matter if you don't do the first step. So everybody's the most challenging thing with an idea is that first step. And I think that will be a conversation we touch on a lot.

SPEAKER_06 14:03

Absolutely. And if you're gonna start a business, like you need to believe this more than anyone else.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 14:09

Like on the you know, capital raising side of things, or like I get people ask me all the time like to help them raise capital or to point them in the direction of it's like you got to get out there and tell that story. You gotta get out there and build the foundation of whatever it is that you're trying to build because you you gotta build your own story and your own vision that way. Like it's not a just check that box, oh, that's done.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yes, exactly. Um and and in that that, you know, I think a lot of people with ideas have this great idea or this great concept where they're they're they've put together something in their head which is great, yeah, but they don't necessarily stop and go, okay, that's great. Now put myself on the exact opposite. What does it sound like to me? Like you go into a meeting and you go, like, I got this great idea, yeah, yeah. Well, okay, but did you stop and go, well, how does this sound? What is the other person? What am I doing? Like, how is the other person receiving this concept and idea? Is anybody gonna care? Yeah. Just because something's important to you doesn't mean it's important to everybody. Art is like that. There's some great art that three people like.

SPEAKER_04 15:09

And that's fine.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

But that's not a business, that's a hobby. Yeah. And it doesn't make the art any less important. It just makes it something you can't make a living out of. That's right. And so that's you know, that's applicable to ideas of any sort, whether it's art-based or or or selling socks, right? Like that those socks with the individual toes. Like, I don't understand how that was a business. I can't, I can I can't even imagine putting those on. I know. But someone's out there making, you know, so they distinguish. I don't know how good the business is doing, but it's they're still out there, so clearly doing okay. Yeah. And they found a market and they stopped likely to ask, do people want this? And they figured enough people did.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Yeah.

Sales Is Listening And Rapport

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So I mean, you have to look at it from the other point. And I think that's also a that will lead into other conversations we have about being entrepreneurs, how to get meetings, how to handle yourself in that first meeting when you're trying to impress upon somebody a business relationship.

SPEAKER_06 16:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

The most common thing of we've seen across all these industries, I don't care if it's art or real estate or investing, whatever, you know, tech, whatever it is, is there's usually someone with the experience in the finances and the thing that you're looking for. And then there's certain there's someone that's on the come up and they've got this thing and they need something from the other person.

SPEAKER_04 16:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

And 98% of the time, the person that needs something goes in and starts talking about what they've got, what they want, what they need, what why they're important.

SPEAKER_06 16:33

They need too much talking, not enough listening.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. As potentially I'm doing right now. Yeah. But it's the why not stop and go, what can I do for you? Just that simple sentence of starting the meeting. That person likely gets pitched a hundred ideas a week, and a hundred concepts and things to put their money or their time or their energy a week. And 99 of those people uh sound the same to them at the end of the day. Yeah. Are the numbers there? You know, all those things are are they're just there or they're not. So you're gonna cut a big chunk of them out just because the person doesn't understand their own business concept.

SPEAKER_04 17:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

But then of the things where the numbers and things are, what what is it the same and they're all good and they make sense and the potential's there? What's the thing that's gonna separate them?

SPEAKER_04 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Well, that simple question of what what can I make, what can I do to make your life easier or your business easier, or what can I bring to the table to make your position better changes the dynamic of the conversation right away.

SPEAKER_06 17:29

Well, and there's too much assumptions that happen, right? Like it's even as a realtor going into a listing appointment, for example, like every realtor is gonna hopefully do good photos, they're gonna do their marketing, they're gonna do their thing. So why do they pick one over another? And often it's because they're able to build some type of rapport. They're able to ask questions. And so I, you know, I've been into many real estate coaching rooms and and webinars and sessions and things, and and everyone's focused on their pitch and their this is what I can do, this is what this is what I'm bringing to table, this is what you know, why you should pick me. And there's not enough time necessarily spent on, you know, like what do you need or what are you looking for, or what are your goals. So never assuming what the other party is, yeah, what they value the most. You cannot assume that.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yes, absolutely. And yeah, as a realtor, I mean, there's a whole series of episodes around being a realtor and what it takes and like little things. Why there's so many realtors that are doing very little business and it's sort of a side project or a side hustle or whatever it might be, which is great. That's there's nothing wrong with that. But if you want to make it a career, what does that actually take? It's a sales-focused business. It's stop and ask yourself why are there so many jokes about realtors, right? Like, why is it that there's so many of these jokes? Are you representing the joke or the opposite to it? Yeah. Like those little things, they're jokes for a reason. Like Realtors, lawyers, and Realtors, yeah, lawyers and accountants, like whatever, you know. And I think if you're going to go into that industry, and it's a great industry if you're passionate about it and take the time to self-educate, but the barrier to entry is pretty low. The barrier to entry to be a musician is extremely low. You can pick up an instrument and call yourself an instrument, a musician. So like those are things that to be aware of that doesn't mean that they're invalid or that you shouldn't pursue it if that's your dream, but you should be aware of that space and what it's being filled with and by who and your why.

SPEAKER_06 19:26

And no matter the industry, whether it's tech or you're an artist or whatever, is you are selling something. Yes. And that's not a dirty word.

SPEAKER_04 19:33

No.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

And and it can feel like a dirty word when you're kind of new to the entrepreneurship space or you really don't want to come across sales-y rights. We talked about that yesterday at our team meeting. And it's like no matter what business you're in, you're in sales.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:46

If you're an entrepreneur, you're self-employed, you are in sales. I mean, whether you're selling a product or service, it's, you know, that changes. But the reality is, is people are going to work with you because they have find some type of bridge with you, whether no matter what that is, right? And I think that's something there is a lot to learn from of how other people do that out there in the marketplace.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah. And and we talk about this a lot to expand on that for everything that you're doing is is uh in the entrepreneur space, is is a version of sales. And that's something that you've educated me on the over the years very well. And and you can get distracted if you're in in the arts of some sense or something that you're more emotionally attached to. People selling socks might not necessarily be as emotionally tied to their product as someone who's selling a song. Yeah, right. But they're putting a part of their themselves into their art or or film or it's very vulnerable. It's very, it's it's much more vulnerable because you often are putting part of yourself into that art. Yeah. And so I can understand that there's more of an emotional tie, but you're still selling socks. It's a song sock, but it is still a sock. If you want it to be a business, it has to sell. You have to sell, yeah. And that's right. And it and and there's, I mean, we could have another few episodes about the artists out there that have a term called sell out.

SPEAKER_06 21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

And and the thoughts around that, and getting upset with artists that are making over a certain amount of money in their career or or don't believe they should, you know, do ads because it's the whatever. Well, if you're gonna do an ad or not make any music anymore, which should you do?

SPEAKER_04 21:16

Yeah.

Selling Out, Money Shame, And Friends

SPEAKER_00 21:16

I mean, it's it if you break it down to that level, it's clear, but it's incredible how many artists will go, no, no, I don't, that's my art. I don't want to, I don't want well, okay, then maybe you don't get to make your art.

SPEAKER_06 21:28

Yeah. This is a topic I would love to dive into more is the people in this space you will encounter through your journey. Like the more success you get, you know, the opinions change.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

And this is a really good example of that. Like an artist reaching a certain level of success. Now, oh, now they're selling out if they are, you know, making decisions which are best for their career and best for their success.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 21:51

And now they're selling out and they're not. It's like, so you want this artist to stay struggling and hungry forever? Should we all just be struggling and starving, entrepreneurs to Together. Like that's not why we got into this, right? And this kind of shame around making money.

SPEAKER_03 22:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 22:04

A shame around a level of success. And, you know, I think every entrepreneur probably is hits that point at some point where you kind of look around at the people around you a little bit and go, these people maybe are not going to be with me through that change. And that's a really tough, really tough pill to swallow. But it's necessary. Like if you want to get to the top of that mountain, you need the people who are going to want to go there with you.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, exactly. And that changes over time. And not everybody, you know, not every relationship's going to last forever. And that's okay too. It can be part of the growth of both parties. Maybe they're going separate ways, or or maybe it wasn't the right person. There's all kinds of things to analyze in that. But I mean, that's one of the most frustrating things about music fans is that, you know, oh, I used to love this band, but but they've gotten too big and their music sucks. And now it's like, eh.

SPEAKER_06 22:50

Now they're playing arenas instead of the bars, which I get the dingy bar thing. I mean, those are great shows, but but it's not great for the artists. And often even not just the artist, but the band. Like all the time. Yeah, they're not thinking about all the other things. They're not thinking about all the pieces that go into it.

SPEAKER_00 23:04

And there's not a ton of money that's getting circulated. I mean, that's a whole you know, we could go down that one. But also to your point around the people that you surround yourself with. We always talk about this, and it was good advice that I got from from people in the early days is always attempt to be the dumbest person in the room.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

And because that's pushing you, as we talked about earlier, to continue to grow, to continue to challenge yourself, to learn. But there is a human tendency, I think, sometimes to to enjoy being the big fish in the small pond, to be the one in the room that everybody's looking to, and that's okay. But it's if you're not aware that of that, it's very stagnating and it will stall you out. Absolutely. Um and it's not good for for growth. It's not good for your ideas, it's not good for, you know, as you said, the people that are gonna want to grow with you and see you succeed. That will be another series of conversations, is the relationships that you have in this space.

SPEAKER_04 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Or, you know, you can tell a lot about a person by their friends, right? That's a very common saying for a reason. Well, it's the same with their who they work with, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

Not all money is good money. Like there's these sort of these sayings that you encounter. Well, they're they're a saying for a reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:16

And I think we've made mistakes around those too. Like we we we have learned our lessons with with all those things and we'll continue to, but I don't think it's talked enough about. We always want to share the shiny things.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yeah.

Hustle Culture And Real Constraints

SPEAKER_06 24:28

That and hust that and hustle culture.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 24:31

I have a huge problem with hustle culture.

unknown 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:34

So I think we'd like to dive into that as well because I mean I have I have had years of hustle that you know probably took years off my life. I think we both have. And and you know, w what was it necessary? Maybe, but is it sustainable? Absolutely not. And it's just not a way to be living your life. Short spurts, you're gonna have to do that. Absolutely. Especially if you want to. But it should not be the like that should this shouldn't be the goal.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah. Yeah. And that's certainly not like a validator, like you have to be doing this, otherwise you're not a real entrepreneur. You know, I mean, that's a whole or if you're not up at 4 a.m., you know, ice bathing, then you're not really out there. It's like, well, we're not we're evening people. That's the way we are, and thank God we're both that way, because if one of us was a morning person, the other one wasn't, we'd never see each other.

SPEAKER_06 25:20

But that is important. That does have people for sure it is.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

That's a challenge.

SPEAKER_06 25:23

But but that took me a while to come to terms with. Like surrounding myself with a lot of self-employed people and entrepreneurs, and I have fibromyalgia and other chronic pain conditions that make my mornings or the absolute worst time for me. But it doesn't seem for a long time that didn't feel like that was acceptable out in the, you know, entrepreneurship landscape. It's like, are you in the 5 a.m. club? It's like, no, I'm absolutely not in that club. Yeah, but I might be in the 11 p.m. club.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 25:53

You know, still getting things out. And we are so really want to own that that there's no one way to do this, right? And you need to do what works for you. And that's the whole reason you're doing this.

SPEAKER_04 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

That's the whole reason you are trying to be self-employed, is to have control of that. So we can talk more about that, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

For sure. And I think that's an interesting point because it's like you want you, the general, you want to build a life that you dictate and control if if you if this is a path that you're after, which is the buck stops with you, but it also starts. Uh you get to choose your own time and schedule, but it's all encompassing. There isn't a nine to five, there's no shut-off valve all the time. So you have to design these sort of things. So, so you have to kind of fit what's required to be successful and what's required for you to be sane and happy, and kind of like a Venn diagram, figure out where those two things fit.

SPEAKER_04 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

What are the things that you can take from success stories that fit you and people that you admire and aspire to be like? And how do they cross over with what you can physically and mentally do to be that way? Yeah. And then maybe you decide, hey, I am not comfortable with the cost. I'm not comfortable with what it's going to take. And I think where you see the most, where I've seen it, and we probably have both seen the most failure in the entrepreneur space, is that people that want the reward but are not comfortable with the costs that it takes.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

And it does have everything has a cost to a degree. Whether it's some a cost you want to spend, it's up to every person. But you can't, you can't get all the reward, you know, with none of the sacrifice. Right. Yeah. And that's the same with designing who you are. You have to have some of those things. There's always going to be a Venn diagram where it crosses. Um, but if you push yourself just into what someone else is doing, you're gonna you're gonna fail as well because then you're not thinking about what's the mental cost, the physical cost. I think if people understood what you've gone through physically over the last 20 years, it would like blow their minds. Like I've been there, of course, firsthand to see it.

SPEAKER_05 27:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

I when we talk about you know bravery, that's where a lot of the bravery I would say that I've witnessed firsthand, oh you know, there's women in the workforce and relationships, all that other there's bravery that hold topics there that I've also had to witness or got to witness depending on the day and the response and the things that that takes bravery as well. But if you'd seen all the physical, just on the physical side, what you've had to uh and continue to have to deal with, you know, you had two hip surgeries in a year.

SPEAKER_04 28:22

Yeah.

Designing A Sustainable Entrepreneur Life

SPEAKER_00 28:23

And that was incredibly revealing to see who who was there to continue to support, to be a growth partner, and who took that as a perfect opportunity to go and and move on with their relationships, let's put it in the most political sense. You know, and and those are the cost buckets that we talk about, right? There's a cost, there's a challenge, and then there's the reward. And there's so many different factors that follow out of those.

SPEAKER_06 28:51

So many. It's and that that that alone is a huge topic, just like physical health and entrepreneurship. When no one is forcing you to, there's no boss calling to make sure you did your work today. It's like, how do you cope with that? How do you deal with that? And and it's it takes practice and it's not something that you know that that probably is ever perfect.

SPEAKER_05 29:10

No.

SPEAKER_06 29:11

And I would I think every day is a little different. But like I know physically for me, every single day I wake up and I don't feel well. Like I don't ever wake up and feel well. If I woke up tomorrow and felt well, I would think I am no longer with this with this with this. Yeah. And so every day there's a mental exercise that goes through that. And some days are better than others. Like some days it's just not good. And some days it's like, okay, I can work through this really quickly. But you know, we've we've built a great dynamic with that. And but it it's it's not that those things aren't absent, right? It's just how do we work through them?

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's and I think what will be fun about this podcast for us and and hopefully for anybody that that does tune in to listen is that there are there are these different themes, these different experiences, like industries or whatever, but they they tie back, they have a a current that connects them all. And you know, an observance that comes with all these different things. And and like as I said earlier, it's not as silent as I think people sometimes think.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:13

Um, and the attitude that it takes to deal with your physical ailments, or the attitude it takes for me to deal with my mental health challenges often applies to the attitude that you need as an entrepreneur or sometimes as a you know hobbyist. Like, you know, there there is there is a conduit that kind of ties these things together that I think is something that we'll continue to explore and might be sort of the tether that connects you know these episodes that we conversations that we have.

SPEAKER_06 30:45

Yeah. I think that's a great start. So we've maybe recorded our first couple podcast episodes and welcome your feedback. We'd love to know what you guys think. And if this is of interest to you, any topics you'd like us to explore, we would love to hear from you. We really want to be an open book. I think with this, a very insider's look into our experiences.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

Yes. And I think the more we talk about things, the more questions we have, it always opens up other discussion points and sort of ideas and concepts. And I think sometimes you'll see us exploring an idea in real time. Sometimes it'll be something we spend a lot of time thinking about and and talking about and figuring out. And then sometimes just the nature of the conversation will kind of pop something uh uh out. So I think the more we have a two-way street to the people that are interested in hearing more about what we're doing, I think, I think the better we'll do. Um and the more interesting the conversations we'll get. So yeah, thanks for tuning in. Uh, love to hear your feedback, as Natasha said, and talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_06 31:48

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

From the ground. Never backing down, never bound.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

Two hearts, one vision, we stay true. In the big of it, and the flips of it.