The Long Game

We look back at the years when we’re building businesses, building assets, and building a family at the same time, with all the risk and uncertainty that comes with being self-employed. We talk about confidence, equality, trauma, and the long game of doing work we can be proud of while still showing up for each other and our kids. 

• revisiting our early entrepreneurship path through music, real estate, and Calgary infills 
• the energy of starting from scratch and the fear of failing to provide 
• learning the balance between bold risk and looking before we leap 
• choosing integrity in a relationship-driven music industry 
• unearned confidence, earned respect, and how gender shifts the playing field 
• being underestimated as fuel and the pressure of perfectionism 
• navigating infertility warnings, endometriosis, and a surprise pregnancy 
• the planned C-section that turns into a terrifying birth moment 
• building careers without a stable paycheck and why assets matter 
• one parent in, one parent out and the cost of flexibility 
• accepting good feedback, building self-belief, and staying open to hard truths 

Please let us know the feedback if you're gonna be able to do that

Transcript

Cold Open And Quick Catch-Up

Speaker 1 0:02

Built this empire from the ground. Never backing down. Never bound.

Speaker 2 0:12

Two hearts, one vision, we stay true. In the Thick of it. In the Phipps of it.

Speaker 5 0:28

Okay, we're back. We're back. Last episode we talked a lot about kind of our initial journey into entrepreneurship and life together. Yeah. So we get to explore that a little bit more and and some key, I think, points in time and lessons learned would be a good place to go next.

Speaker 0:47

Yeah. So where we left off, we were I was I was we had decided we had a starting a record label, famous, still existence, artist management, development, all that fun stuff. We had our son Aiden, first of two kids. We were building infills in Calgary. Um you were getting your real estate uh career as a as a realtor, getting that career going. You were finding the the properties for us to to build. We built three, three or four.

Speaker 5 1:19

I think it was like five.

Speaker 1:20

Yeah. Over a couple years. Over a couple years. Yeah. My my memory is slightly buried, partly because our son didn't allow us to sleep. And then so yeah, that's kind of where we left off. That's where we were at. Now we're a young family, one young kid we knew or we were told by the doctors it would be difficult to have. And so then there was a decision about having a second child after that. And we were doing some infills. I was finishing up this education, met some artists, one in particular that I felt had real potential, and so started that business as well. And then yeah, that's so that's where we we left off.

Speaker 5 1:57

Kind

The Thrill And Cost Of Risk

Speaker 5 1:58

of thinking back, like I think it'd be good to sort of talk a little bit about when you're just starting something brand new, yeah, and everything is foreign, everything, everything is literally uncomfortable and the unknown. I hear from you know, people that are later in their careers than us that they kind of miss that initial like excitement.

Speaker 3 2:20

Excitement.

Speaker 5 2:21

The like um the energy that there is around the unknown and the like, am I gonna am I gonna succeed or am I gonna crash and burn?

Speaker 3 2:29

Yeah.

Speaker 5 2:29

Because there is definitely that time where it's like, okay, it's go time. And am I gonna be able to actually support my family doing this? Am I actually able to pay the bills? Am I gonna be able to do the basics? Never mind, succeed.

Speaker 3 2:41

Yeah.

Speaker 5 2:42

And I think that's an interesting reflection of people like later on in their careers and looking back of like that is the time. Like that is the time that you look back on and and and have learned a lot of incredible lessons, but putting yourself out there over and over and over again is really what it's all about.

Speaker 2:59

Yeah. And like that, there is certain level of excitement with it. I I mean, people talk about this all the time, that like first step, like stepping off the ledge, taking the taking the chat. I at that time, especially, I would argue could almost be a sociopathic level of risk on, where I had no problem stepping off the ledge. To the point of like, maybe I should look a little bit first, right? And that's one of the lessons learned, right? We found that quickly. But I didn't have enough fear, maybe. But if I didn't if I had Well, I had the fear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, certainly. Thank thank fucking God. But you know, you learn a little bit of that, but you still have to be able to take the step. That's the balance, right?

Speaker 5 3:40

Absolutely. And hear the nose and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3:42

And and the level of unearned confidence that uh, you know, if I didn't know it, I could figure it out. And most of that was proven true in hindsight.

Building In Music With Integrity

Speaker 3:52

But then you gotta build relationships, you gotta do all these other things that that when you're stepping into a new space and the music business, especially. I mean, go on for days about the uh that business as a whole, it's very emotionally driven, uh, relationship driven. There's all sorts of one of my favorites sayings about it, it's that it's a business full of crooks, thieves, and criminals, and then there's the bad ones. You know, and and it's because it's so emotionally driven and it's such a people are that are trying to make a career in it, they're putting their art forward, and they're so connected to that art that it's easy to take advantage of it. It's easy to sell people a hoop dream, and and I really did not want to be that way, and I was hopeful that it could be different. And and you know, looking back, I think I made decisions always with that mindset, and that was good, but it was very unknown. Yeah, and it's still the challenge, and it's still it's always going to be a challenge.

Speaker 5 4:48

Well, and so my sort of inner dialogue is always like I have to earn earn that level of respect or earn that opportunity, I have to earn. And it took a long time to sort of keep elevating what I believed I was worth or what I believed I could, you know, achieve. And there's nothing wrong with kind of like knowing your place in a situation a little bit. Like if you if if you're surrounded by people that know a whole lot more than you do, that is the best place to be. The best, always the absolute best place to be. And I really made a point of trying to find those, you know, circles and those people to try to absorb as much as I possibly could. And but, you know, looking back, I probably could have gave myself more credit sooner. And I'm I'm working on that now. And I have been, you know, taking that in a lot more in the last few years. But I took me a long time to sort of like really own that and be like, I have done this, I have achieved this and and know that like I've done some pretty incredible things.

Speaker 3 5:55

Yep.

Speaker 5 5:56

But it was it was more building up that confidence to even accept that for myself.

Speaker 6:01

I think

Confidence, Gender, And Being Underestimated

Speaker 6:02

that over our discussions, we'll touch on different things where perhaps the male-female experience is slightly different. Yeah. I think one of the things that we're the same on is we always want to be the dumbest person in the room whenever possible, or least experienced, or whatever verb you want to use that's kinder. But that's something that we both thrive on and always want to push being being surrounded by people that understand more and and and can learn from. But what's perhaps a little different between the male and female experience, I just said it, I had an unearned confidence.

Speaker 3 6:32

Yeah.

Speaker 6:33

And I think that can sometimes be more of a male trait. Like seeing it out there, there's there's a lot of men that are very confident and they're loudly confident, yeah, and really do not deserve to be and really don't know all the time necessarily the confidence does not match the communication or the experience or what they're putting forward. Right. Where where I think, and this of course is not a hard and fast rule across all men and all women, but I think often women are put in a social influenced situation where they're the feeling is is like what you're talking about, that you have to earn it more, and it's not as naturally given, and it's not as naturally space provided. And and then the the not giving yourself enough credit is more of the social pressure. Once again, I'm not saying for everybody in all times, but it is and something we've been able to experience between the two of us and see it in in our kids, yeah, and seen it in our our business relationships and and discussions. I mean, to this day, we'll go into a room and people come talk to me first. Yeah. And I'll be like, I don't know why you're talking to me. That's the boss there. Like, you know, in these different and it happens all the time, it's reflexive. And it's something that I'm very I really have a lot of energy to push back the other way for you, especially because you're my you know, my wife, my partner, my best friend, all that stuff. But also just if you take a step back and purely just from a, you know, if you really want things to be equal equal and equality, it's it starts from the same zero, right? Yeah. And it's not, it just doesn't. And and that that was when we really started to see it more. And especially when you start looking back, you can see more of those differences. The yeah, the the the bluster that allowed me to be so fearless in taking those that first step might it might not have been the same in in the different seat.

Speaker 5 8:30

Well, and for me and for, you know, I'm sure other women being underestimated can be a tool.

Speaker 3 8:39

Yeah.

Speaker 5 8:39

It can drive you, it can fuel you. Is it fair? No, but you know, that's life. And we see it with our kids, like they just, I mean, they've lived they've the same household, same parents, you know, same schools, and very different experiences in terms of how they're interpreting the world and what's and and the issues our daughter has had to deal with, despite being two years younger than our son, is much more impactful and shakes her like confidence. Yes. And makes her question, you know, like this like inner dialogue of like doing everything perfectly, making sure you're answering everything perfectly and having the perfect answer and be in, you know, appearing the right way in every situation. Whereas like our son kind of is the complete opposite. Yeah, he's just like he he's you know, he he doesn't even I don't even think that crosses his mind very often. So those things as you grow up, you know, and I was the same way as a kid of wanting to do everything perfectly well and and do a good job for my parents too. Like I wanted to, you know, do well and that perfectionism, people pleasing, that's a very dangerous place to get to as well if you don't start taking control of it as you as you gr like grow up.

Speaker 9:54

Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think there's a certain measure of that that is a personality trait in the person. And then there's a certain amount of that is societal pressure, a societal positioning, a different playing field. Like you just you have to think of safety in a di completely different way than I do.

Speaker 3 10:11

Yeah.

Speaker 10:11

And our kids have to. And and I think when there's all these like, you know, things about being equal and what equality is, like that's that will never be equal. And that's okay. It's understanding it and then and and then working within those frameworks.

Speaker 3 10:27

Yeah.

Speaker 10:28

But but like you said last episode, like nothing is always going to be completely 50-50. And it comes to things like that. There's just differences that you have to deal with than what I have to deal with, and vice versa. And that's that's what we like, it's it's not always okay that it's like that, but it kind of is like that. So then it's how do you make those decisions based on that, and then how do we treat each other to fit within that? So we can't necessarily control all of society, but we can control how we treat each other, how we judge each other's actions and their decisions, and then how we represent that for our kids, and hopefully do whatever we can to balance that score a little bit for them.

Speaker 5 11:05

Well, and f finding your advantages in those things, like there's disadvantages on both sides, but how can you focus on the advantage that you have rather than what you don't have? Because there is advantages to being underestimated.

Speaker 3 11:19

Absolutely.

Speaker 5 11:19

You know, there is a different level of you know the way you might approach situations, knowing that you're being underestimated at times.

Speaker 11:28

100%. Yeah. And and we I've I was given a one of the multitude of therapists I've seen over my life, spoke to everyone gets dealt a hand of cards, right? You get your good cards and your bad cards, but you get your cards no matter what. Whoever you are, you have your cards. So then it's up to you how you play those cards.

Speaker 3 11:48

Yeah.

Speaker 11:48

So while I can't entirely understand what it's like to be you, and and vice versa, to an nth degree, you can go, okay, these are the cards I've got. Now I get to decide how I play them. I get to decide how I risk respond within the framework of what you know the expectations are or not, or if I'm being underestimated or overestimated, or whatever it might be. And then by doing that, I think you naturally create a true, a more true equality. Like it people look at you now like an effective business person, not uh, oh, she's good for a woman. Like that's a thing. It's like, and and that can be frustrating. It's like, oh, you're doing great uh for a woman.

Speaker 5 12:29

Well, I've been the token woman.

Speaker 12:30

Yeah.

Speaker 5 12:31

You have absolutely been that place is like we need a female.

Speaker 12:33

Yeah, we need yeah, we need a woman in here. Oh, Natasha Smart, get her over here.

Speaker 5 12:36

We've had yeah, exactly. We've had several guys being interviewed. We need a female. Yeah, we need to balance the colour. Yeah, absolutely. And so it's like it's it's it and I can take that two ways. One is like it's annoying that I'm not just like getting the opportunity because I earned it, or am I getting the opportunity just because you know I'm a woman? And and it's and it's it's not that black and white either, because they wouldn't just give you the opportunity, you know, if you couldn't probably fulfill what they're looking for. But off that that's that also doesn't negate that they thought about maybe the men first.

Speaker 13:07

Yes.

Speaker 5 13:07

And those situations. Yeah, it's reflexive, yeah. It's kind of reflexive, right?

Speaker 13:11

Well, and then that's that's how you've been able to sort of break that mold to from what I've seen, and it's always going to be there to a degree and and and the world is gonna be what it is. But like I see now people don't drop the that uh that like oh for a woman nearly to the same degree as anymore. And I the landscape believe it more though, too. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 5 13:33

I believe I've earned it more. That's that's a big thing.

Speaker 13:36

Well, just the fact that you even have to say that's true, but yeah, I know that's it's crazy, but it's true to true that you feel like you have to say that where you go interview a hundred men, I don't think a single one of them would say that would have would say that. Now maybe one or two, just the the odds of whatever. But I think as a whole, that's just not a thing that crosses most men's minds.

Speaker 3 13:55

Yeah.

Speaker 13:56

And so you I mean, there's a whole dialogue and whatever around equality and what that means and how it fits, and and and you know, you add your Aboriginal and your experiences with that and with your family and with your grandmother and all that other stuff. There's there's so many different like nuances around equality. And our our belief has always been, I I believe, is like if we're both starting from zero, that's the goal. Like, I whatever I say to you and however I pass judgment on you, it's not for any of those things, it's just directly to you. But that's just not the way the world works, right? So then you you wit you kind of start playing within that sandbox. And

Second Pregnancy And A Scary Birth

Speaker 14:35

so here we are, we got a young family. Now we same feedback on for our second kid. Oh, you're not you're gonna have all kinds of problems. Yeah, you better start now. You likely you may not be able to have another child.

Speaker 5 14:46

And well, because we had a C-section with Age and so they were able to see internally the damage with the endometriosis and stuff. And yeah, they weren't, they basically said I wouldn't be able to have another kid.

Speaker 14:55

Yeah, yeah, basically.

Speaker 5 14:56

That's what we were told.

Speaker 14:57

So we're like, well, then we'll just we'll just try and see what happens, and and then same thing. We go pretty well pregnant right away.

Speaker 5 15:03

Yeah, that was that is a miracle, really.

Speaker 15:05

A miracle, yeah. Our our second child, Brindley, and yeah, it was a it was a miracle, and and we're both neither of us have a nine to five job. Neither of us are yeah, you know, we have projects and we're working and we're doing things, and we have assets that are supporting these more crazy adventures, but it was not a regular stable paycheck. And now we have two young kids and no but we had assets. We had assets, yeah, exactly. That's what I say. Yeah, and and and the assets were the key. They allowed us to do those things. And once again, maybe if we had better understanding of how to use those assets that we have now, we would have made different decisions, but that's part of the process, yeah, you know. And so because you had a C-section, Brindley was a planned C-section, so we knew exactly when she was going to be born, we knew the day and the time, and that was a you know, a very challenging period. I know it was a we were there was a lot of uncertainty even through the whole the whole process and and then knowing what's coming. And I remember the day she was she was born. I remember, you know, I'm not a religious person by any stretch of the matter imagination, but I remember sitting there going, happy, healthy, I will do good. And and like sitting there while you get like you know, taken away, so to speak, sitting in this room, kind of just listening to people that are in there just doing their own thing, you know. And then, you know, you go in and there's this I mean I can only imagine from from what you're dealing with.

Speaker 5 16:41

You're frozen, but you can feel everything still. Yeah. It's it's a and and so many people and everything is busy and loud, and and then there wasn't it didn't go well till she came out. Yes, she was really terrible.

Speaker 16:53

Yes, that was the scariest. So she was having all kinds of trouble breathing. Yeah, her chest was like like, yeah, like her belly button was touching her her spine. Like it was like it was like gasping, gasping, like it wasn't going in. For sure, one of the scariest things I've seen. And then they're going, okay, this baby's struggling to to live, and mom's just had a very invasive surgery. Yeah. And they're going, one's going this way, one's going that way. You know. And of course, as a as a dad, you're you're you're you're going staying with them, obviously. And but you're you're still torn, right? Like and so that was a yeah. You have core memories, right? Yeah. That's one that like even if I lose my marbles, which odds on one day I probably will. That's one of those those moments that will you know stick with you.

Speaker 5 17:50

Well, and they were both kind of traumatic sort of births and entry into the world. But her, we thought we kind of well, we have this planned, it'll be more like control, and no, that's just not how it goes, right?

Speaker 18:03

Yeah, right. Like Aiden, you were in labor for 28 hours, right? Like that was a totally different sort of process, and then still ended up having to have a C-section. So Brindley was much quicker, which was also it was very like like just a whirlwind. And then, you know, thankfully, a few days in the hospital, she was able to stabilize afterwards. They sort of told us that can happen sometimes with C-section. C section, yeah. I think they're fluid and things like that. Yeah, and a number of things, but it's you don't know that at the time, and even if you do what you're seeing doesn't align with anything. No, it was terrifying.

Speaker 3 18:33

Yeah, it was terrifying.

Speaker 18:34

So I often will say afterwards that you know, talking about masculinity, like you asked men, well, you know, when you know, when you become a man, and there's there's all kinds of gross shit around men becoming a man when it has to do with sex or whatever else, or or or being a parent or whatever. And I would say even though it was our second child, that was probably the day I felt more like an hour.

Speaker 4 18:58

Yeah. Maybe now you're responsible for all that. Yeah.

Speaker 19:02

And every we were, I mean, I don't know what that says about me with a two-year-old at home, but I think it was just clear, more clear because of how difficult that situation was.

Speaker 5 19:12

Well, and do you think there was any difference with her like being a girl for you as a dad?

Speaker 19:16

Or did that more or after, yes. Like as in the in the in the weeks and months and things to come, um for sure. And it's a different experience. I don't everybody whatever anybody says, it's a different relationship each. Like there's different things that you're communicating around and over and seeing and and what have you. So s especially over time, that's definitely I would say. But that day was I think it was probably more just the trauma of it and feeling helpless. Yeah, and and even starting to like the woo-woo of things. I mean, we'll talk about that as well. Like the woo-woo-twoo-woo shit, you know, energy, connectivity, these things, unexplainable things. Like I said, I'm not religious, but for whatever reason I had that overwhelming need to like say a prayer of of sorts, you know. So I think you you put those things together, and it's especially in hindsight, it's very like that would be okay. Like that's I'm not now or whatever.

Speaker 4 20:20

Yeah, we're growing up now. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 20:21

I know even to this day.

Speaker 4 20:25

Isn't that a funny thing up with a 12 years later now?

Speaker 20:28

Over 12 years later now, and still sometimes people come to me, like I coach kids, and then somebody asked me a question, and the head coach, I'm looking around, like, who's what? Oh shit, they're talking to me. You know, like I I don't think that leaves the human experience at all entirely, but but that was, you know, and then now we have two kids and and fledgling careers, and we each have our our own our own entrepreneurial journeys. We're working

The Long Game In Work And Life

Speaker 20:51

with your dad on these infills and and two young kids at home, and and then and no security outside of our assets, yeah, to say, you know, there was no landing, safe landing. Our families were extremely supportive. Of course, yes. And the family is a huge thing that never undervalue that from both of our uh our parents was extremely supportive and and helped a ton, but it wasn't like we were just, you know, okay, well, I'm back to work and and kind of carrying on. And it was just all right, it's gonna make this work, we'll see what happens, right? And being in sales, being a realtor, like it's an ebb and flow at the best of times, right?

Speaker 5 21:32

Yeah, oh it is. There's no, I mean, you can do everything perfectly right, and you're still gonna see some inconsistency. Like there's just yeah, there's no way to be perfectly consistent with your income.

Speaker 3 21:43

Yeah.

Speaker 5 21:45

I think too, like the building a family and trying to you know, build a business, it's there's a different level of like why, but not just why and like you're trying to get to this point. But it's like, at least for me, I started thinking about, you know, I want to be able to tell my kids I've done the right thing. I want to say that I've done my very best to do the right thing in difficult situations. Becoming a parent, all of a sudden you're like, I'm a role model now. I'm not just a, you know, I'm just doing this for myself. There's a different level of like introspection. You'll look at things and that one day, you know, they may hear things of how things have gone and how we've built our lives. And that was a big part of it. You know, looking back on things too is this was like, am I proud of what I'm doing?

Speaker 3 22:32

Yep.

Speaker 5 22:32

And like, do I know I've tried my hardest? Do I know I've put everything out there? Even if it fails, even if it's not gonna work, like can it be? And yeah, and a lot of things don't work. Can I say I've tried my absolute best and I've put my best foot forward and I've done the right thing, even if it's, you know, maybe not making us a priority at times? Like there's a lot of difficult, you know, decisions that are made through hard times. And at least for me becoming parent, that was one thing that certainly switched that I wanted to be able to make sure I could say that.

Speaker 23:01

Yes. And I think that that will touch on maybe where we go with our next episode, which is that ability to look at yourself in the mirror, making business decisions, like whether we call them ethics or morals or whatever. The working hard is a huge part of it. Do you did you commit to this thing that you're doing? Did you show up? Did you do what you could for your family and for yourself and for your partner? But also did you do it in a way that you can sleep with? Like did you do it? And and I think we both probably have made decisions that didn't always put ourselves first, but we did it with that understanding that that was a way that we were gonna be able to sleep at night, that we we were gonna succeed or fail doing things the right way, right? And and that's not a fast track, that's not the fastest point to success. But uh I do believe, and I think we both do believe, and I don't want to speak for you, but I think we've had this conversation enough that that's really the only way, and that it does build something long-lasting, that it does build whether it's it's your reputation, but it's also the people you learn to work with, both to work with and to not work with, to to who's who's worth betting on, but also it was a pivotal uh strengthening piece to to us together, to to how we got to see each other work, how you got to see how we treated business relationships, how we made decisions, where we put the energy in. And for a number of years now, it was one in, one out, right? I yeah, I mean, I left you were pregnant with Brindley. This is before she was even born. I we had I pushed to adopt this wingnut rescue dog.

Speaker 5 24:39

Rodney adopted a dog. We already had a dog.

Speaker 24:41

She's gonna outlive me too.

Speaker 5 24:43

We just moved into a new house with no fence. We I had Aiden at home, and I was like six months pregnant, and we got this rescue dog, Zach, who is still with us today. I know I said he's gonna outlive me now. And this dog was not house-trained, and Rodney left for Lee. We're gone for weeks. Yeah, weeks. Radio tour.

Speaker 25:00

We did a radio tour, we went out to the East Coast, and like and like it just a I mean, just crazy. But that's what it was now for a number of years. It was one in, one out. Thankfully, there was always one in, which is something that we really prided ourselves in being able to be available for our kids when we could, and we were lucky that we could do that. Not everybody has that ability, and so we but we paid the price for it as well.

Speaker 3 25:23

Yes, yeah.

Speaker 25:24

Because because if one of us was there often, that meant the other one wasn't. And so one of us got to experience certain things and not always the other one, right? Now in balance it was worth it, and that's what we chose, but but you know, and and you you had to put a lot of time into building your career. And I was building a business that wasn't gonna pay anything for a while. And if it worked, great, but it wasn't gonna be a cash-flowing business. Yeah, it was more of a high risk, high reward, pie in the sky thing that opened other doors and other relationships and things that have paid off and still is. Yeah. But it was not gonna be a quick return, right?

Speaker 5 25:59

And like being self-employed, that that is the biggest like a has to be one of the largest challenges, just how long it takes to build a foundation of your name, of your business. And I think, you know, we both probably definitely underestimated this. And like that, that's where people get frustrated and they throw in the towel and they quit. And and I totally get it because you still have to also pay your bills and survive.

Speaker 3 26:24

Yes.

Speaker 5 26:25

But but also it can mean maybe just doing things a little differently instead of giving up entirely.

Speaker 3 26:30

Yeah.

Speaker 5 26:30

You know, we've both taken side jobs early on. We did all kinds of random things at times. We needed to pay the bills or whatever it was. So, you know, but never giving up on that. That was the goal was to be able to control our days and times and schedules.

Speaker 4 26:43

Yeah.

Speaker 5 26:43

And for us, that doesn't mean like we only work three hours a day or something. It means we work a lot. We work a lot, but we weave it into how we want to live our days.

Speaker 26:51

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 5 26:51

And that was that was always the goal.

Speaker 26:53

Yes, absolutely. And and Sean, who's with uh with involved with us in our Wellshare now as a trustee, he says this all the time. And and I think we just instinctively felt this way long-term plans with long-term people that you're building things for long-term. And but like it's hilarious. We we underestimated how long it would take, and we were still estimating it would take a while. Yes, which is the hilarious thing because we still knew it wouldn't be quick, but it was still took longer than we would have wanted or liked or hoped. Yeah. Um, and so if you don't have that long-term vision with what you're doing, you're really gonna get caught off guard with what it takes.

Speaker 5 27:26

Well, realtors, how quickly they come in and out of the business, right? Like, getting past even the two-year mark, never mind, the five-year mark, yeah, is really that's just one little example. Or like restaurants.

Speaker 27:35

Restaurants, yeah. I was just gonna say that's and that's I think another that's a whole episode as well, because these are things with short shelf lives for a reason. And and there's a lot of energy at the beginning, and you have your network and you hit that network up, and then what?

Speaker 3 27:46

Yeah.

Speaker 27:46

Then what? And that's what people don't always think about with with these kind of careers and or like restaurants. A lot of disappointments like feedback, right?

Speaker 5 27:54

Negative feedback, negative feedback, and yeah. I think at least for us, that has been one thing that's been helpful is we both understand that. Like I don't know if I actually don't know if I would have been able to, you know, get to this point in my career if you didn't understand that. Like that was a huge thing.

Speaker 28:12

Yeah.

Speaker 5 28:13

And you also seeing in me what I didn't see in myself.

Speaker 28:17

Yeah, I would I would say that if I if I could give myself credit for one thing with with our relationship. Well, we'll work on that. But that's a big huge one you did for me. Absolutely. I've I have always had supreme confidence in you, like unwavering, supreme, complete confidence in whatever it was that you're doing. To the point where it was so reflexive, I don't know if I always communicated it that it was there enough, right? That's something that you learn as you go. But it was just so instinctive that I'd I sometimes would probably not say it as much as I could in that way. So, but you have to have that. And you had the same back for me. I mean, even though it was crazy and stressful, and sometimes it would be whatever, you still had this confidence that I was gonna be able to figure it out given the time and the energy. And then that's also when I get this diagnosis for being bipolar, and I'm going through trying to figure out my mental health, and that caused, you know, disruption in my life and and how I was going about my day and figuring out more treatments and going through you know, that was a whole lot of things. And that's yeah, we won't get into that.

Speaker 5 29:17

But but I think one like thing out of that that's really that people could take away is getting really comfortable with believing what other people say are your best traits.

Speaker 3 29:30

Yeah.

Speaker 5 29:31

Like other people people that know you well will tell you what the what they have the most confidence in you about or what like whatever that thing is. But it can be hard to believe it.

Speaker 4 29:40

Yeah.

Speaker 5 29:40

So practicing believing it and taking it in and and actually, you know, believing it yourself is a game changer.

Speaker 29:47

Yeah. And accepting the feedback, like the good and the bad, but accepting it, the good is sometimes hard for a lot of people, I think.

Speaker 5 29:53

Yeah, you remember the bad.

Speaker 29:54

You remember the bad, and that's fine. And you gotta remember the bad too. Yeah, you gotta remember the good shots, yeah. And and then the there are people out there that don't take the bad in at all. Yes. I wouldn't recommend that either. Like you definitely need to take the feedback of all sorts, but I think a lot of people that have good hearts and are trying to do right, they have a harder time accepting the good, taking in the good and believing it and and and and processing it the right way. And you need to be able to do that to succeed, just as you need to learn from the mistakes, you need to learn from your strengths and you the things that you are good at, and then you can make the most of those and be more effective with them.

Speaker 5 30:30

So, yeah, that's me in my brain, that's been harder to like internalize and fully believe.

Speaker 30:35

Yeah, yeah. I mean and you're you continue to work on it. I can't believe it. You can come a long way, but you're still working on it. And you probably we will, as I will, for the rest of our lives. Like our health issues are not I I joke that's terminal, but it's more you're just there's no solution. There's no just like with what you're dealing with. You're these are challenges we're gonna have for the rest of our lives. Regardless. So regardless. So then how do you work them into your life and take that same attitude and continue to push yourself and question, you know, challenge yourself to grow and all that kind of you know, cliche stuff, but it's it is it it has to be that way. So it's like, yeah, we made progress, but we're going to continue to work on it. And and even just doing this, this podcast is part of working on it and communicating these things.

Speaker 5 31:22

Yeah, see how it resonates.

Speaker 31:23

We'll see, yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 5 31:25

Like, let us know.

Speaker 31:26

Yeah, yeah, that'd be I'd love to hear that.

Speaker 5 31:28

Please let us know the feedback if you're gonna be able to do that. Shut up, Rodney.

Speaker 31:30

You're talking too much. That's like that's great feedback. But yeah, and and I think that's that's a good origin story segment. There, we kind of got to, you know, we've got a family, we've got our careers, we've got our businesses, and then you know, down the road we we would launch Wellshare together, which has been an exciting evolution. We did these individual kind of pathways, we're always supporting each other, always, you know. And we still are we still are doing those things. We still have Famous is still going and doing really fun things and incredible things, and and Phipps group has grown. FIPS started FIPS and then it was Phipps group, and that's gonna evolve as well. And and then, but then Wellshare was was the thing that we did together officially on paper, and and and that's that was another step, and and we'll talk about that more at a later date. But that's I think that's that's a good spot to kind of tie off the the origin, the start, how we some of the the early obstacles, and obviously we could talk a lot more in depth about those things, and maybe at some point we will, like you said, bring in bring in your dad as a guest speaker to that.

Speaker 4 32:32

Bring in some guest speakers, the side. Our kids want to come on to the show.

Speaker 32:34

Yeah, bring the kids, bring, bring grandpa, and and he can tell the story about how we almost moved to Mexico one day, if not, if not for his adventure. Yeah, we'll just leave it at that. I'll leave that one there. So, yeah, thanks a lot. Thanks very much.

Speaker 1 32:48

Yeah, beautiful from the ground. Never backing down, never bound.

Speaker 2 33:01

Two hearts, one vision, we stay true in the big of it, in the fips of it.